Telepathy as defined by the Marvel Universe (X-Verse)

[grampa doowop]

I would like to create a thread detailing the aspects, feats, limits, and nature of telepathy as defined by the Marvel Universe. Since it is mostly shown in the X-Books, I believe that this is the appropriate forum for this thread. Obviously, the concept of telepathy predates the Marvel Universe, mutants, and the X-Men, but I am interested in trying to get a better sense of telepathy as defined by the Marvel U for the purpose of writing accurate MU fan-fic and just to satisfy my own curiosity. I've been reading the X-Books for about 14 years now and I know I don't know everything. So long-time readers, newbies, casual readers, lend me your insight. Give me issue numbers, websites, etc. Help me out. Feel free to pose your own questions. The questions I have though are the following:

- As an X-Reader what are some standard, common truths about telepathy that you have noticed?

- What things are common across the board for all telepaths when it comes to using telepathy? Is it different for mutants (Psylocke) versus telepathic non-mutants (Moondragon)? Is it different for Marvel Universe telepaths (Professor Xavier) versus DC Universe telepaths (Martian Manhunter) or any other industry/universe (i.e. Image, Dark Horse) telepaths?

- What are some great telepathic feats that have been accomplished?

- What are the limits that telepathy has been established has having?

- Telepathy is defined by Merriam-Webster as "communication from one mind to another by extrasensory means." In the Marvel Universe, has that 'extrasensory means' been defined? In others words, based on what you've seen/read, is telepathy a manipulation of an energy source that controls brainwaves? Is it manipulation of brainwaives using one's own brainwaves?

- I know that many of the X-Men (senior staff/active duty ones at least) have been trained to fight telepathic assaults. Has this been explained in detail? How exactly are they able to do so?

- There seem to be different types/levels of telepathy from normal telepathy (Jean Grey) to "omni"-pathy (Gamesmaster) to charm power (Gambit) to mind-control (Karma) to ) to obtaining others' memories in various ways (Rogue, Prodigy, Danielle Moonstar). Are there any others?

- Telepathic energy seems to have taken physical form at various times (Onslaught, the Shadow King, Chamber's insides, Psylocke's psychic knife, Emma Frost's psi-bolts, but how exactly was Professor Xavier (protecting himself and Peter Corbeau) able to disarm a Sentinel telepathically in Uncanny #98 or 99 or ninety something?

-Is Dr. Strange's astral projection considered an actual telepathic astral projection a la Professor Xavier's?

-How exactly do the helmets of Juggernaut and Magneto make them immune to telepathy?

[Alan2099]

The Astral plane is a relm of pure thought that all minds inhabit. I have yet to see anything similar from any other comic company.

In the Astral plane, will power and physcic energy are the only real things that matter. A strong telepath basically can alter reality on the Astral Plane.

Every different telepath has different limits. Some lower end ones can't even directly access the astral plane. Higher end ones like the Game Master are in constant and complete contact with it and couldn't dissconnect themselves if they wanted to.

As the brain is run on tiny electrical impulses, very strong telepathy has been shown to affect the electrical charges of machinery. The highest I've seen if Professor Xavier destroying a sentinel with pure telepathy.

Strange's astral form is different in the fact that it's magically fueled, but otherwise it opperates the same way.

Magneto's helmet has built in psi-shielding. Juggernaut's helmet is magic.

[Ever9]

I would like to create a thread detailing the aspects, feats, limits, and nature of telepathy as defined by the Marvel Universe. Since it is mostly shown in the X-Books, I believe that this is the appropriate forum for this thread. Obviously, the concept of telepathy predates the Marvel Universe, mutants, and the X-Men, but I am interested in trying to get a better sense of telepathy as defined by the Marvel U for the purpose of writing accurate MU fan-fic and just to satisfy my own curiosity. I've been reading the X-Books for about 14 years now and I know I don't know everything. So long-time readers, newbies, casual readers, lend me your insight. Give me issue numbers, websites, etc. Help me out. Feel free to pose your own questions. The questions I have though are the following:

- As an X-Reader what are some standard, common truths about telepathy that you have noticed?

- What things are common across the board for all telepaths when it comes to using telepathy? Is it different for mutants (Psylocke) versus telepathic non-mutants (Moondragon)? Is it different for Marvel Universe telepaths (Professor Xavier) versus DC Universe telepaths (Martian Manhunter) or any other industry/universe (i.e. Image, Dark Horse) telepaths?

- What are some great telepathic feats that have been accomplished?

- What are the limits that telepathy has been established has having?

- Telepathy is defined by Merriam-Webster as "communication from one mind to another by extrasensory means." In the Marvel Universe, has that 'extrasensory means' been defined? In others words, based on what you've seen/read, is telepathy a manipulation of an energy source that controls brainwaves? Is it manipulation of brainwaives using one's own brainwaves?

- I know that many of the X-Men (senior staff/active duty ones at least) have been trained to fight telepathic assaults. Has this been explained in detail? How exactly are they able to do so?

- There seem to be different types/levels of telepathy from normal telepathy (Jean Grey) to "omni"-pathy (Gamesmaster) to charm power (Gambit) to mind-control (Karma) to ) to obtaining others' memories in various ways (Rogue, Prodigy, Danielle Moonstar). Are there any others?

- Telepathic energy seems to have taken physical form at various times (Onslaught, the Shadow King, Chamber's insides, Psylocke's psychic knife, Emma Frost's psi-bolts, but how exactly was Professor Xavier (protecting himself and Peter Corbeau) able to disarm a Sentinel telepathically in Uncanny #98 or 99 or ninety something?

-Is Dr. Strange's astral projection considered an actual telepathic astral projection a la Professor Xavier's?

-How exactly do the helmets of Juggernaut and Magneto make them immune to telepathy?

1. I've noticed and read Jean say that being a telepath grants you photographic memory. You also can pick up thoughts of anyone without meaning to and have to shut down your power to block out outside thoughts - the more powerful the telepath, the more thoughts they hear. Not everyone has access to the astral plane - only the high order ones, but Sage went there and took Madelyne Pryor with her, so that might not be true. As far as I know, Sage isn't a high-order telepath.

2. Don't know about this one. I think telepathy is telepathy is telepathy regardless of how the person came upon their power. All humans and mutants have the potential for telepathic powers.

3. Limits - I've only noticed limits for high-order versus lower-order telepaths. Basically if they have a high profile and visibility in the Marvel Universe, they're high-order. If they're a tertiary character in the background, it's just normal telepathy.

4. Don't know.

5. Sabretooth fights it by thinking of really disgusting and bloody things and that grosses out most telepaths who want information from him. I guess it's a mental way of thinking of a defense like you would a physical defense if assaulted.

6. There are probably many iterations of telepathy. Depends on the need of the plot.

7. That's a good question. I didn't realize he had mental control over electronic machinery, except for the Danger Room, I think. Maybe he applied that same knowledge to the Sentinels, which might mean that they're sentient. Otherwise, Deux ex Machina.

8. I think his might be equivalent to an out-of-body experience and not a means of telepathic communication. When Xavier's astral form is elsewhere, he's still aware of his surroundings, I believe, which is why everyone needs to shut up when he's zoning out. Dr. Strange is actually gone from his body.

9. Juggernaut's is a magical plot device created to have a surefire way of defending him against his stepbrother. Magneto rerouted the metal in such a way that it blocks telepathic energy.

This is my input. I'm probably wrong in many places, but here's the first attempt at some answers.

[DDM]

Depending upon the telepath, it can have various uses. For instance, the former White Queen, Emma Frost uses telepathic sedation to keep her victims unconscious. Frost is an expert in electronic theory & used many artificial means to expand her telepathy. Frost created the "mindtap mechanism" which allowed Jason Wyngarde, Mastermind, artificial telepathic powers; this same device made Jean's telepathy useless. Otherwise, Phoenix would have seen through Mastermind's illusions. The White Queen used a psyche exchange gun on Storm which switched their minds into the other's body. The White Queen also used her telepathy as psychic surgery on the New Mutants & most recently on the boy accused of murder in X-Treme X-Men #19-23.

Psylocke uses her telepathy to combine with her ninja physical abilities. Her psycho-blaster powers is reformed in her psychic knife which could maim or kill her victims. The psychic knife creates an instant psionic rapport between herself & her victims. Psylocke often uses her telepathy to create illusions while in battle often turning her foes' strengths against him or her.

The most powerful telepath, the Shadow King, basically rewrites his victims' personalities by bringing out their dark side. Everyone is a pawn to him. Nothing is beyond his grasp when he is in the corporeal world. The problem is the Shadow King is dead. He is the undying boogeyman that can never really be destroyed. The Shadow King feeds off negative energy or evil. As long as evil exists, the Shadow King lives. The Shadow King is Xavier's polar opposite.

[Tobias March]

Some writers almost seem to define telepathy as a physical form of energy. Perhaps solely for the benefit of the artist, but it essentially becomes yet another 'energy blast'.

I have also seen it portrayed simply as a different way of perceiving the world, were people's experiences are easily downloadable and a psychic is more instinctual, or sensory based than others. The astral plane at times has appeared to either be an actual place, like a dimension adjacent to our's, or merely the mass of thought contained within the world.

Shadow King throws up all sorts of problems. What is he? A ghost? A psychic virus? He possesses hosts continually, so is he merely a parasite? There are also huge differences in how Emma Frost and Psylocke's telepathy has been defined.

[DDM]

Shadow King throws up all sorts of problems. What is he? A ghost? A psychic virus? He possesses hosts continually, so is he merely a parasite? There are also huge differences in how Emma Frost and Psylocke's telepathy has been defined.

The Shadow King is the first mutant who predates Selene & Apocalypse. Once his original body died, he used his telepathy to shift his form into another body. Over time, he became more powerful. Eventually, he would be killed by Xavier as Amahl Farouk; the duel has left the Shadow King bitter for revenge. Regardless, the Shadow King's power has transcended to even beyond Xavier's telepathy. The Shadow King needs a corporeal host to exist in the real world (Jacob Reisz in this case). Otherwise, he is trapped on the astral plane. A series of unfortunate events allowed the Shadow King to come back to the corporeal world with a combination of Lorna Dane's affinity to absorb negative energy (hence her superhuman strength & invulnerability) & Legion using Cerebro to locate the other X-Men. Slowly, the Shadow King corrupted the Muir Island X-Men. Only Lorna Dane, Forge, & Banshee were not affected by the Shadow King's foul taint.

Although the Shadow King is technically dead, death itself has not stopped the Shadow King.

I believe the Shadow King uses a more insidous form of psychic surgery when he draws out the dark sides of his victims.

[LordAllMighty]

- What things are common across the board for all telepaths when it comes to using telepathy?

All telepaths have the same power but with different level of projecting it. All telepaths possess the power to read minds and communicate mentally with others over long distances (ranging from several feet to globally). More advance telepaths like Professor X, Moondragon, Jean Grey and Psylocke can stun the minds of others with "mental bolts," control the actions of others, create illusions in the minds of others, induces temporary mental or physical paralysis, and loss of specific memories or total amnesia.

- Is it different for mutants (Psylocke) versus telepathic non-mutants (Moondragon)?

As far as we know, there is no different between mutant telepathy and enhanced human telepathy, other then one was learned and the other was access through mutation.

- Is it different for Marvel Universe telepaths (Professor Xavier) versus DC Universe telepaths (Martian Manhunter) or any other industry/universe (i.e. Image, Dark Horse) telepaths?

I haven’t seen one

- What are some great telepathic feats that have been accomplished?

Professor X once made telepathic contact with Lilandra in the Shi’ar Galaxy, which lays several light-years away. Jean used her telepathy to increase her physical ability to superhuman level. Moondragon once held an entire planet under her telepathic domination (about 6 million). The Shadow King once mentally connects himself with every living being on the planet (over 6 billion people). Rachel while in possession of the Phoenix Force made mental contact with every sentient being in the universe. Professor X once used his telepathy to enter the sub-atomic doorway to the Micro-verse. I’m sure there more but I just can’t remember everything.

- What are the limits that telepathy has been established has having?

Alien minds sometime give earth telepath problems; certain kinds of electromagnetic energy can disrupt telepathic abilities. People with strong will can resist telepathic influence to a certain degree

- I know that many of the X-Men (senior staff/active duty ones at least) have been trained to fight telepathic assaults. Has this been explained in detail? How exactly are they able to do so?

I don’t think it’s ever been explained but I always figured it was a form of will power.

- There seem to be different types/levels of telepathy from normal telepathy (Jean Grey) to "omni"-pathy (Gamesmaster) to charm power (Gambit) to mind-control (Karma) to ) to obtaining others' memories in various ways (Rogue, Prodigy, Danielle Moonstar). Are there any others?

Verbal and illusion casting are the first two to come to mind.

- Telepathic energy seems to have taken physical form at various times (Onslaught, the Shadow King, Chamber's insides, Psylocke's psychic knife, Emma Frost's psi-bolts, but how exactly was Professor Xavier (protecting himself and Peter Corbeau) able to disarm a Sentinel telepathically in Uncanny #98 or 99 or ninety something?

I strongly believe, that psionic energy is closely related to electromagnetic energy to the point that they are almost the same thing. If I am correct then when a telepath strike something with a psi-bolt, their actually hitting it with a massive amount of bio-electro energy.

-Is Dr. Strange's astral projection considered an actual telepathic astral projection a la Professor Xavier's?

Yes, there no different between them.

-How exactly do the helmets of Juggernaut and Magneto make them immune to telepathy?

Juggernaut’s immunity comes from magic, so that all you need to know, seeing that magic defies all field of science logic. Like Storm, Magneto can manipulate electromagnetic energy to hamper telepathic energy.

[streator]

i agree that the shadow king is the most powerful telepath, but i do not agree that he has all these ties to other things.
for as long as the shadow king has existed (in the m.u.), xavier and associates have mostly been able to keep him in check. be it muir island saga or psi-war or even the xxm annual, shadow king has been shown to be controlled.

i would therefore say that the realm of telepathy is strong in the mu, but not uncontrollable.
even the strongest telepath cannot always "win".

[Zeta]

Shadow King throws up all sorts of problems. What is he? A ghost? A psychic virus? He possesses hosts continually, so is he merely a parasite? There are also huge differences in how Emma Frost and Psylocke's telepathy has been defined.

He's basically self-sustaining psychic energy. I would imagine that he keeps a flow of psionic or electrical energy into his "self", by simply hanging out in the astral plane and feeding off the extra brainwaves all of humanity broadcasts into it.

In other words, he's a Babelfish of EVIL. :p

[grampa doowop]

Finally got time to respond to all the posts...

As the brain is run on tiny electrical impulses, very strong telepathy has been shown to affect the electrical charges of machinery. The highest I've seen if Professor Xavier destroying a sentinel with pure telepathy.

This is kinda why I never really understood the difference between the Bedlam/Aaronson brothers' powers. I mean if they both can disrupt electrical impulses (one to machines, the other to the human brain) coudn't they really both do both. If Kitty can disrupt both electronics and human brains, I don't see why the Bedlam brothers couldn't either.


I have also seen it portrayed simply as a different way of perceiving the world, were people's experiences are easily downloadable and a psychic is more instinctual, or sensory based than others. The astral plane at times has appeared to either be an actual place, like a dimension adjacent to our's, or merely the mass of thought contained within the world.


You know it's funny you mention that. On a Rumbles forum on another comics msg board a while ago, someone in a JLA vs. X-Men post stated that the Flash had the ability to "vibrate between dimensions" and that if ever on Marvel earth, he could potentially vibrate to the astral plane and be able to face any of the psychic X-Men, i.e. Jean, Prof X, Psylocke.

There are also huge differences in how Emma Frost and Psylocke's telepathy has been defined.

Care to expound on this?

The Shadow King is the first mutant who predates Selene & Apocalypse.

I didn't realize the Shadow King was that old. So Amahl Farouk was not his first host?

Moondragon once held an entire planet under her telepathic domination (about 6 million).

Cool. Well not for the 6 million people, but you know what I mean.


Answering my own question, on great telepathic feats... I thought Jean dividing fragments of Xavier's mind into every living being on Earth to hide it from Cassandra Nova was pretty cool.

M infiltrating Emma's mind with such ease during Onslaught was cool...ahh I miss the Lobdell written/Bachalo drawn M.

[Alpha to Omega]

The Shadow King is the first mutant who predates Selene & Apocalypse. Once his original body died, he used his telepathy to shift his form into another body. Over time, he became more powerful. Eventually, he would be killed by Xavier as Amahl Farouk; the duel has left the Shadow King bitter for revenge. Regardless, the Shadow King's power has transcended to even beyond Xavier's telepathy. The Shadow King needs a corporeal host to exist in the real world (Jacob Reisz in this case). Otherwise, he is trapped on the astral plane. A series of unfortunate events allowed the Shadow King to come back to the corporeal world with a combination of Lorna Dane's affinity to absorb negative energy (hence her superhuman strength & invulnerability) & Legion using Cerebro to locate the other X-Men. Slowly, the Shadow King corrupted the Muir Island X-Men. Only Lorna Dane, Forge, & Banshee were not affected by the Shadow King's foul taint.

Although the Shadow King is technically dead, death itself has not stopped the Shadow King.

I believe the Shadow King uses a more insidous form of psychic surgery when he draws out the dark sides of his victims.

When was it revealed that he was older than Selene?

[tangentman]

Other cool Telepathy feats:

--When the Upstarts sent Sentinels to kill the Hellfire Club and X-Men, Jean transferred her psyche into Emma's comatose body (believed dead) and hid there when she nearly died from the Sentinels' attacks.

--Moondragon could awaken latent psi-powers in humans, as she did with Patsy Walker/Hellcat when she trained the latter on Titan.

--Rachel Summers could send a person's consciousness or her own back in time.

--Emma Frost defeated M in a very short fight by channeling ambient psychic energy in the vicinity through Monet as "psychic lightning" by using the girl as a "psychic lightning rod". One of Emma's coolest stunts, imo. Emma has also given an entire mob a simultaneous orgasm w/her telepathy.

--Professor Xavier tapped into Carol Danver's unconscious mind with the help of Jessica Drew to awaken the woman's buried memories and personality traits after her psyche was stolen by Rogue.

[DDM]

When was it revealed that he was older than Selene?

X-Men: True Friends #1-3 confirms the Shadow King is the first mutant. When Kitty recognizes the Shadow King, Amahl Farouk is disturbed she knows his true identity (i.e. the Shadow King).

Chris Claremont had been building upon the Shadow King being the first mutant with his arc from Uncanny X-Men #253-278, but it was cut short & rewritten by the editors to be a catalyst for the original X-Factor to rejoin the X-Men for X-Men #1.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Don't forget Nate Grey pulled Xavier out of the astral plane for the pure hell of it in X-Man #10.

[Titan76]

[QUOTE=grampa doowop]
- As an X-Reader what are some standard, common truths about telepathy that you have noticed?
- What things are common across the board for all telepaths when it comes to using telepathy?
Every Telepath can read minds and communicate telepathicly, and have photographic memory.
Is it different for mutants (Psylocke) versus telepathic non-mutants (Moondragon)? Is it different for Marvel Universe telepaths (Professor Xavier) versus DC Universe telepaths (Martian Manhunter) or any other industry/universe (i.e. Image, Dark Horse) telepaths?
No, there is nothing different that I know of.
- What are some great telepathic feats that have been accomplished?
The Shadow King once controled almost everyone's mind on the planet at once, not everyone's mind though. Nate Grey(the X-Man) once used his psychic powers to stop time itself from moving within a few miles, he also used his telepathy to creat psychic armor like Onslaught did, psi armor is almost as strong as adamantium, almost, depending on who the telepath is. Nate also used his psychic powers to bring Madelyne Pryor back to life. In the Exiles series an Evil Xavier unleash a psychic bomb that killed everyone within 10 miles. Xavier also used his telepathy to show Galactus the good side of the Skull race by putting it into his mind to try and stop him from destroying their planet. Xavier also created Onsluaght, nuff said. He has used his telepathy to scan every being on earth without Cebera, Jean has also done this as well. Jean in a weaken condition once took Xavier's either mind and placed it in her own and then used Cebera to put his mind in every single mutant's mind on the planet to stop Xavier's sister from killing them all, this is something not even Xavier himself can do. Onslaught(who has the full power of Xavier's psychic powers) once took Jean's either body and bought it onto the astral plane, this had never happen before and was thought impossible to do. Jean was able to scan for and find Wolverine and Cyclops when they were in space faster then Xavier did even when he was using Cebera to do it.
- What are the limits that telepathy has been established has having?
Telepaths who are not omega mutants can only use as much of psychic energy that their bodies will allow. If a non-omega telepath uses more psychic energy then their bodies will allow them to use then the psychic energies they are using will overload on them and then consume their either body and kill them. A omega telepath has been said to not have a limit on how much psychic energy they can use.
- Telepathy is defined by Merriam-Webster as "communication from one mind to another by extrasensory means." In the Marvel Universe, has that 'extrasensory means' been defined? In others words, based on what you've seen/read, is telepathy a manipulation of an energy source that controls brainwaves? Is it manipulation of brainwaives using one's own brainwaves?
Brainwaves have been show before. For example when Xavier try to use his telepathy on the Skulls and the Shi'ar he said he was having problems at first because their brainwaves work differently then humans/mutants do and it took him a little bit longer to figure out how to use his telepathy on them. So I would have to say that telepathy is a manipulation of energy that does control brainwaves and yes its manipulation of one's own brainwaves that control another's, but that's my opion.
- I know that many of the X-Men (senior staff/active duty ones at least) have been trained to fight telepathic assaults. Has this been explained in detail? How exactly are they able to do so?
This all depends on how powerful each telepath is. For example if Jean used her telepathy on Emma then there is really nothing Emma can do to stop her because Jean is much more powerful then Emma and Emma doesn't have the psychic defenses to stop her. If Emma used her telepathy on Psylocke(when she had hers) this would come down to who has more will power because both I would say are equals. So it all depends on how powerful the telepath is and how powerful the psychic defenses are.
- There seem to be different types/levels of telepathy from normal telepathy (Jean Grey) to "omni"-pathy (Gamesmaster) to charm power (Gambit) to mind-control (Karma) to ) to obtaining others' memories in various ways (Rogue, Prodigy, Danielle Moonstar). Are there any others?
Gambit's charm as far as I know is no power, its just very very good charm. Rouge's powers are also not telepathy in anyway, this is just a mutant power she has, nothing more. As for other ways I can't think of any right now but if I do I will post to let you know.
- Telepathic energy seems to have taken physical form at various times (Onslaught, the Shadow King, Chamber's insides, Psylocke's psychic knife, Emma Frost's psi-bolts, but how exactly was Professor Xavier (protecting himself and Peter Corbeau) able to disarm a Sentinel telepathically in Uncanny #98 or 99 or ninety something?
Telpathic energy does not have a physical form, its just pure energy. Onslaught, Shadow King, Chamber's insides, Psylocke's psychic knife, etc are just forms of pure psychic energy, not physical ones like a rock or something. It's just psychic energy that looks physical but its not, at least that's what I think. As for how Xavier disarm the Sentinel I don't know because I havn't read those issues.
-Is Dr. Strange's astral projection considered an actual telepathic astral projection a la Professor Xavier's?
No, Dr. Strange's astral form is magic not psychic like Xavier's is. Dr. Strange does not have telepathic powers like Xavies does, his astral form is all magic.
-How exactly do the helmets of Juggernaut and Magneto make them immune to telepathy?
Juggernaut's helment made him immune to telepathy because of the magic the gem was giving him , but Jean has once got through his helmant on her own, so I don't think its immune anymore because of this, it just takes a very very powerful telepath to get pass it. Magneto's helmet was never immune to telepathy until the X-men movie came out and said it was. Xavier and Jean have always been able to get into Magneto's mind with his helmet on, Magneto just had powerful psychic defenses that made it hard to enter his mind but he was not immune. Now they have done away with that and just say his helmet is psi proof, which is really stuiped if you ask me.

[DDM]

This all depends on how powerful each telepath is. For example if Jean used her telepathy on Emma then there is really nothing Emma can do to stop her because Jean is much more powerful then Emma and Emma doesn't have the psychic defenses to stop her. If Emma used her telepathy on Psylocke(when she had hers) this would come down to who has more will power because both I would say are equals. So it all depends on how powerful the telepath is and how powerful the psychic defenses are.



Emma Frost, Psylocke, Phoenix, Xavier, Shadow King etc al are all Omega mutants; in fact virtually every mutant created for Uncanny X-Men, The New Mutants, Excalibur, etc al are all Omega mutants. Emma Frost has about the same power resources as Xavier, although she uses her powers differently. The same applies to Psylocke & Phoenix. Phoenix is more powerful than Xavier or Emma Frost since Phoenix (Jean Grey, Rachel Summers) taps into the fundamental fabric of the cosmos which has nearly limitless resources. When the White Queen fought Phoenix in Uncanny X-Men #131, Frost had human limits when Jean Grey did not. However, Frost's telepathy was still powerful enough to make Jean believe the White Queen committed suicide when she did not.

Phoenix's alter ego is the Shadow King. In many ways, the Shadow King is just as powerful as Phoenix, yet they are polar opposites. Phoenix is a symbol of creation & rebirth; whereas, the Shadow King is a symbol of subterfuge & stagnation. Chris Claremont made this comparison in X-Men: True Friends #1-3.

Psylocke was shown to be a powerful telepath when the Hand's psi-dampers could not contain Psylocke's telepathy; it affected the Hand's more weaker minded personal shown in Uncanny X-Men #258. At the time, Psylocke had to use her own telepathy in an attempt to brainwash Wolverine due to her & Logan's natural invisibilty to the Hand's computers. Psylocke's telepathy was shown to be very powerful in Alan Moore & Jamie Delano's Captain Britain.

[Titan76]

Emma Frost, Psylocke, Phoenix, Xavier, Shadow King etc al are all Omega mutants; in fact virtually every mutant created for Uncanny X-Men, The New Mutants, Excalibur, etc al are all Omega mutants. Emma Frost has about the same power resources as Xavier, although she uses her powers differently. The same applies to Psylocke & Phoenix. Phoenix is more powerful than Xavier or Emma Frost since Phoenix (Jean Grey, Rachel Summers) taps into the fundamental fabric of the cosmos which has nearly limitless resources. When the White Queen fought Phoenix in Uncanny X-Men #131, Frost had human limits when Jean Grey did not. However, Frost's telepathy was still powerful enough to make Jean believe the White Queen committed suicide when she did not.
What?? Jean is the only Omega mutant out of all the ones you just said. Emma, Psylocke, Xavier, Shadow King are not omega mutants. Xavier himself has called himself an high alpa mutant not an omega. At full power Jean could beat all these people at once because she doesn't have the limits that the others have as far as her powers go. The others all have limits in the powers and can only do what their bodies allow them to do, well Shadow King doesn't have a body anymore but he is still not all powerful like you say he is, he is at best around Xavier's level which is high alpa level. The only limits an omega mutant has is how much knowledge they have over their powers, meaning they can't do something if they don't know how to do it. Jean has been depower at times but that was do to having mental blocks place in her to kept her powers in control at a level she know how to handle them. As far as all mutants are omega, what the hell are you talking about? An omega mutant is a different class of mutants, its the highest class a mutant can be and their are only a hand full of omega mutants not everyone of them. Its like comparing Loki to Thor with the Odin power, both are gods but Thor with the Odin power is far more powerful then Loki and in a different class of gods. As for Emma doing what she did to Jean one could say that was PIS, CIS, or Jean still didn't know how to use all that power she had at that time and this allowed Emma to use her telepathy on her. Emma sure as hell can't due that anymore, as was shown the last time her and Jean fought.
Phoenix's alter ego is the Shadow King. In many ways, the Shadow King is just as powerful as Phoenix, yet they are polar opposites. Phoenix is a symbol of creation & rebirth; whereas, the Shadow King is a symbol of subterfuge & stagnation. Chris Claremont made this comparison in X-Men: True Friends #1-3.
Okay I havn't read this but did CC actually say that Phoenix's alter ego is the Shadow King in the book or just made a example that Shadow King was Phoenix's alter ego because this sounds really stuip to me if he is. And has this mini been said to be cannon, because I don't remember this ever being mention in any of Phoenix's bios or heard anyone saying that this was cannon. In no ways is the Shadow King more powerful then Jean is at her full potential, when she is not at her full potential then yeah I can see this happening but not when she is at full power.
Psylocke was shown to be a powerful telepath when the Hand's psi-dampers could not contain Psylocke's telepathy; it affected the Hand's more weaker minded personal shown in Uncanny X-Men #258. At the time, Psylocke had to use her own telepathy in an attempt to brainwash Wolverine due to her & Logan's natural invisibilty to the Hand's computers. Psylocke's telepathy was shown to be very powerful in Alan Moore & Jamie Delano's Captain Britain.
Great but this still doesn't mean she is an omega mutant. Psylocke is a powerful telepath, an alpa mutant so her doing this makes sense but she is still not an omega mutant. Just so you know the only people who have been said to be omega mutants or done things that would make them omega mutants are: Jean, Iceman, Franklin Richards, Cable, Rachel, Nate Grey(X-Man), Omega Kid, Hyper Storm, and Elixir, no one else. Magneto, Polaris, and now Wanda(due to Bendis) might be ones as well but I don't know.

[Bart Simpson]

Emma Frost, Psylocke, Phoenix, Xavier, Shadow King etc al are all Omega mutants; in fact virtually every mutant created for Uncanny X-Men, The New Mutants, Excalibur, etc al are all Omega mutants. Emma Frost has about the same power resources as Xavier, although she uses her powers differently. The same applies to Psylocke & Phoenix. Phoenix is more powerful than Xavier or Emma Frost since Phoenix (Jean Grey, Rachel Summers) taps into the fundamental fabric of the cosmos which has nearly limitless resources. When the White Queen fought Phoenix in Uncanny X-Men #131, Frost had human limits when Jean Grey did not. However, Frost's telepathy was still powerful enough to make Jean believe the White Queen committed suicide when she did not.

Phoenix's alter ego is the Shadow King. In many ways, the Shadow King is just as powerful as Phoenix, yet they are polar opposites. Phoenix is a symbol of creation & rebirth; whereas, the Shadow King is a symbol of subterfuge & stagnation. Chris Claremont made this comparison in X-Men: True Friends #1-3.

Psylocke was shown to be a powerful telepath when the Hand's psi-dampers could not contain Psylocke's telepathy; it affected the Hand's more weaker minded personal shown in Uncanny X-Men #258. At the time, Psylocke had to use her own telepathy in an attempt to brainwash Wolverine due to her & Logan's natural invisibilty to the Hand's computers. Psylocke's telepathy was shown to be very powerful in Alan Moore & Jamie Delano's Captain Britain.

Umm...no. There are only 4 confirmed omega mutants. Bobby, Jean, Elixir and Kid Omega. Out of these only Jean is an omega telepath and telekinetic. The rest of the people you mentioned is just wishful thinking.
And the White Queen did try to commit suicide, it's just that Jean's attack left her in a coma instead of outright killing her.

The true friends comparison with Shadow king is nothing more than a comparison and contrast. Phoenix of course represents rebrith and creation, but Shadowking of course represents things that would be opposite to that. Doesn't mean it's Jean's alter ego. That's like saying Sinister is also her alter ego, or Apocalyspe is her alter ego. It doesn't mean Shadow king is as powerful either. Sometimes you take what Chris Claremont writes way to literally when he is known for colorful descriptions and narration.

[Anon_me]

--Rachel Summers could send a person's consciousness or her own back in time.


Minor quibble but isn't that another mutant power that Rachel possess, the ability to send her own consciousness back in time, with the added bonus of being able to send someone else's via her telepathy.

As far as the use of telepathy, I think Jean, Xavier, and Emma are probably some of the ones who can use it much more creatively and subtely than say Psylocke or Nate who are more of a raw power kind of telepath.

[Titan76]

[QUOTE=Anon_me]Minor quibble but isn't that another mutant power that Rachel possess, the ability to send her own consciousness back in time, with the added bonus of being able to send someone else's via her telepathy.
Yes this is another mutant power that Rachel has.
As far as the use of telepathy, I think Jean, Xavier, and Emma are probably some of the ones who can use it much more creatively and subtely than say Psylocke or Nate who are more of a raw power kind of telepath.
Psylocke didn't use he telepathy as much as she did in her early days because once she learned ninja she would use them both, her telepathy and her ninja in a sort of comb. type way, she has shown some creative ways like Emma has, also Psylocke in no way showed raw power the way Nate ever did. At best like I said she showed Emma's type of raw power. Nate also didn't have the training in his powers like the others did for their powers so it made sense that he was just mostly raw power, if someone like Jean or Xavier had train him then he would have been much more powerful.

[DDM]

Minor quibble but isn't that another mutant power that Rachel possess, the ability to send her own consciousness back in time, with the added bonus of being able to send someone else's via her telepathy.

As far as the use of telepathy, I think Jean, Xavier, and Emma are probably some of the ones who can use it much more creatively and subtely than say Psylocke or Nate who are more of a raw power kind of telepath.

Rachel's telepathy & telekinesis combine to make her manipulation of space & time possible. However, Alan Davis wrote Rachel's time travel as a different power. Chris Claremont has never intended for Rachel to have a separate power.

[Anon_me]

Well...I meant raw power in the sense that they're less creative and subtle with their use of telepathy, and more about blugeoning their foes with it ;)