The "Serenity" *SPOILERS* Thread

[Loren]

WARNING: If you don't want to get spoiled on this movie, you best be turning back now.

I unfortunately didn't get to contribute to the movie's opening weekend gross, but I did get to catch a matinee today. I loved it, and my friend who I just introduced to "Firefly" last month also enjoyed it.

I was a little disappointed, however, to get back here and find that the big 'Serenity' movie thread on this board was operating spoiler-free. Everybody's being cagey about "Character #2's death," or having to hide behind spoiler tags and whatnot.

No more. Here's a thread where you don't have to shy away from spoilers on the movie. Mal wouldn't want our conversation being limited.

So let me start off by talking about one big spoiler:

Why did Shepherd Book have to die? He's an interesting character, he didn't get much time in the movie, and there was a big mystery regarding his background that could have been fodder for a future movie. It's still possible to tell that story, but his death still comes off as unnecessary and inhibitive to a future tale.

'Cause frankly, I'd rather the next movie be centered around Book than Inara. Nothing against her, but I'm intrigued by his mysterious past more.

[Chuckg]

Going from discussions on other boards, there are several theories I've seen floated around. I don't know which one is true:


* The actor who played Book was starting to get ill and wanted to leave the franchise on-stage, rather than wait until he just couldn't show up anymore and have to be written out off-stage.

* Book died as part of the "A hero is someone who gets other people killed" theme, the same as Wash died. It is not realistic to stand up against the entire Evil Empire and not take /any/ casualties... the cost in lives is a consequence that Mal has to bear, for making the hero's choice as opposed to just dumping Simon and River back into the hands of the Operative as soon as he asked.

(And I'm not saying that Mal did the wrong thing by making the hero' choice, oh no. I'm just saying -- you have a war, some people are tragically going to die. There's just no way around it, wish though you might.)

And the Alliance killing their friends and razing their favorite hideouts because the Serenity itself is too hard to find is also entirely in character.

[ragnarok_2012]

Yeah, I really do want to see Book's backstory handled. Maybe it will be dealt with in book form. I was also hoping that the sequel would center around Book.

Wash' scenes were a bit flat compared to the tv show scenes, but his death was certainly jarring. It was a decent enough death scene, and it left me wondering who would actually be left standing at the end of the film.

[Ontir]

I had a feeling, given that Buch wasn't on the ship, that he wasn't long for the verse, and his death certainly served a purpose in the story, but I was sad to see it happen. I've been a fan of Ron Glass since his days on Barney Miller, and looked forward to the revelation of Buch's secrets and past. I'm also sad to hear that Glass is ill, and wish him the very best.

Wash totally stunned me. I actually teared up. That's just one of those totally realistic senseless losses that you move on from, but never get over. I immediately flashed back to Zoe trying to convince him to have children, and lamenting what now, will never be.

His passing, however, certainly gives River more opportunities onboard, and a new way to earn her keep. I also liked that she sat in the other console, and left Wash's station, dinosaurs intact, just as he'd left it. I hope they stick to that, it's a fitting tribute to him, and true to the characters.

[howyadoin]

I've been a fan of Ron Glass since his days on Barney Miller, and looked forward to the revelation of Buch's secrets and past. I'm also sad to hear that Glass is ill, and wish him the very best.Is that confirmed, or a rumour? He seemed pretty healthy around the time the movie was being shot.

[Chuckg]

It is, as I said, a rumor.

[Shellhead]

Is that confirmed, or a rumour? He seemed pretty healthy around the time the movie was being shot.

Either way, Glass is old, so maybe he didn't want to deal with the hectic shooting pace of a tv series again, if this franchise is revived. It's too bad, Book was a great character, and I was looking forward to seeing more of him.

[Donald Stone]

Either way, Glass is old, so maybe he didn't want to deal with the hectic shooting pace of a tv series again, if this franchise is revived. It's too bad, Book was a great character, and I was looking forward to seeing more of him.Just cause he's dead don't mean we won't see more of him, this is Joss Whedon we're talking about.:)

I doubt Joss will bring him back from the dead, but there's a lot of ways we could get some more Book.

[ragnarok_2012]

Either way, Glass is old, so maybe he didn't want to deal with the hectic shooting pace of a tv series again, if this franchise is revived. It's too bad, Book was a great character, and I was looking forward to seeing more of him.

Everything I've read and heard live from panels I've attended at Dragon Con these past two years has indicated that Joss has no interest in bringing back Firefly as a tv show. They'd like to make more movies, though.

[Inkthinker]

His passing, however, certainly gives River more opportunities onboard, and a new way to earn her keep. I also liked that she sat in the other console, and left Wash's station, dinosaurs intact, just as he'd left it. I hope they stick to that, it's a fitting tribute to him, and true to the characters.

Well, Mal sat there. But it's his ship.

And he didn't move the dinosaurs.

[Shellhead]

Everything I've read and heard live from panels I've attended at Dragon Con these past two years has indicated that Joss has no interest in bringing back Firefly as a tv show. They'd like to make more movies, though.

That disappoints me a little. I mean, I would be happy to see a couple more movies (or even more, if the quality stayed high), but the tv series gave them more time develop the characters. There is no question that Fox badly jerked Whedon around, but from the extras on the dvd set, I also got the impression that their pressure on him during the original episodes pushed him to create his greatest work, especially compared to some of the more mediocre seasons of Buffy or Angel. The tv episodes tended to have excellent pacing and even some better one-liners than the movie.

[ragnarok_2012]

I'm under the impression that they'd like to make a trilogy. Not sure if they'd push it any further than that. I believe that Whedon's production company is shut down, and of course he's working on Wonder Woman. So it looks like he's concentrating on movies right now.

The movie was just awesome. Like LOTR, it makes the weaknesses in Lucas' prequels glaringly apparent.

I've got Stony giving me grief because the movie only made $10 mil. But I've got faith. :D

I hope that Orson Scott Card's quote about the movie gets used in the advertisements now:

"If Ender's Game can't be this kind of movie, and this good a movie, then I want it never to be made.

I'd rather just watch Serenity again. "

http://www.hatrack.com/osc/reviews/everything/2005-09-30-extra.shtml

[howyadoin]

It is, as I said, a rumor.Glad to hear it. He's a really cool guy.

[sheets]

Glass definitely did not get killed off because he wanted out, for any reason. Lke Alan Tudyk, he was really happy with playing Book and was looking forward to playing him for a long time and was therefore very shocked when he read the script and got to the part when Whedon mulched his character. I guess it's possible that if there's a sequel, they could still have Glass appear in flashbacks or something...

[Sam]

Why did Shepherd Book have to die? He's an interesting character, he didn't get much time in the movie, and there was a big mystery regarding his background that could have been fodder for a future movie. It's still possible to tell that story, but his death still comes off as unnecessary and inhibitive to a future tale.

'Cause frankly, I'd rather the next movie be centered around Book than Inara. Nothing against her, but I'm intrigued by his mysterious past more.

I'm pretty sure Joss killed Book largely because he liked the idea of Book's mystery staying a mystery. I realized as soon as Mal and Book had that exchange along the lines of, "One of these days you'll have to tell me how you know all this," "No, I won't." that we will never, ever, ever find out Book's backstory. Even if he'd lived.

I think I like it better that way, actually. Book is a much cooler character if his past stays an enigma than if you find out he used to be an Operative or whatever. As my brother put it after the movie:

"If you find out he's an old Operative, you'll be like, oh, hey, that's cool. But if it always stays a mystery, you'll always be like [jumping up and down] oh God I want to KNOW, which is more fun."

[ragnarok_2012]

I think I like it better that way, actually. Book is a much cooler character if his past stays an enigma than if you find out he used to be an Operative or whatever. As my brother put it after the movie:

"If you find out he's an old Operative, you'll be like, oh, hey, that's cool. But if it always stays a mystery, you'll always be like [jumping up and down] oh God I want to KNOW, which is more fun."

That's actually a pretty good argument. Wolverine's origin, for instance, probably should have remained a mystery.

[Shellhead]

That's actually a pretty good argument. Wolverine's origin, for instance, probably should have remained a mystery.

Mysterious origin doesn't work as well in a shared setting like the Marvel Universe, compared with a world defined by a single creator like Whedon's Firefly setting. Too many writers handling Wolverine, and eventually they would have stepped on each other's writing without firm editorial control (something Marvel has completely lacked in recent years) or a defined origin.

[Amokitty]

Please tell me I wasn't the only one that wanted The Operative to die by his own damn sword.

After that speech he gave to River's lobotomy scientist in the beginning; about the man being a failure and that there's no shame in dying a "good death", I sooooo wanted to see Mal tell him in the end that he failed and then kill that SOB with his own sword. The Operative was responsible for everyone's murder on Haven (including Children), not to mention poor Shepard Book!

Mal shoulda killed him.

[BoosterBronze]

Please tell me I wasn't the only one that wanted The Operative to die by his own damn sword.

After that speech he gave to River's lobotomy scientist in the beginning; about the man being a failure and that there's no shame in dying a "good death", I sooooo wanted to see Mal tell him in the end that he failed and then kill that SOB with his own sword. The Operative was responsible for everyone's murder on Haven (including Children), not to mention poor Shepard Book!

Mal shoulda killed him.

That was the point. The Operative would have been HAPPY to die. Mal did worse. He CRUSHED the man's soul, his very reason for being.

[DF2506]

^^I'm glad Mal didn't kill him. I think if Mal had killed him, he wouldn't have been much better then the Operative. Just because you can and want to kill someone (even if they are bad and need to be stopped), doesn't mean you should.

Mal actually did something better at the end. He made the Operative see what he had done was wrong. I like that much better for an ending. Plus, its not predictable. I think people would expect the Operative to get killed in the end, but he didn't. Joss did a lot of stuff in the movie that wasn't predictable (I sure didn't see Walsh's death coming! :eek: :eek: )

What a cool movie. Just awesome. I enjoyed it so much when I saw it on Sunday. Ya, there were some really sad parts (Book and Walsh dying), but there were so many FUNNY parts. The Joss humor was just great in this movie ('I swallowed a bug', 'Don't be afraid to let them die', 'Come back and rescue me!', etc. Just great lines). Plus, I really liked the storyline with River and also I liked finding out the origin of the Reavers!

Mal, imo, was so cool in this movie. He definitly my favorite Firefly character. I thought it was so cool when he shot the Operative when they first met! Mal was funny in this movie, but he was also so much darker then he was in the series, which fit this movie very well! :)

I also like Kaylee alot and I was happy that she & the doc FINALLY got together. lol. She had some really funny lines in the movie too!

Oh and I'm liking River alot too. In the series, I thought she was an interesting character, but in the movie she was a very cool character! Some great fight scenes, especially that ending one (reminded me alot of Buffy, though I think that River might even be able to beat Buffy up! )

And Jayne had some excellent one-liners too! (and I liked that River beat him up so much. lol! )

The audience that I was in laughed alot at the one-liners. Everybody enjoyed the movie!

From start to finish, it was an excellent movie. Ya, I missed the Firefly theme song (words and all), but the humor, plot, characters, etc more then made up for that minor thing.

Joss made an excellent movie!

DF2506
" And Walsh's death really made it where I thought that most, if not all the good guys were going to die. Man, those parts were so tense!! I was thinking, " Is anybody going to be left alive for a sequel?! " Great job Joss! "

[Nate Grey]

"Um, I could stand to hear a bit more."

:D

[metr0man]

you know what i thought woulda been an interesting way for the Operative to go... if, after the message got out, he killed himself for his own failure (using his own sword). THough thats kinda a cliche (the villian offing himself at the end) i still woulda liked it.

[Shellhead]

And Jayne had some excellent one-liners too! (and I liked that River beat him up so much. lol! )

And Walsh's death really made it where I thought that most, if not all the good guys were going to die.

Did you notice that Jayne was holding a bag of ice to his groin during that meeting on Serenity in the next scene? I laughed when I saw that.

That dead guy was called "Wash", which we learned at the end was short for "Washburn." It's on his tombstone. I can't remember what it said his first name was.

[Sam]

I'm curious as to why so many people see Mal as darker in the movie than in the show. Mal "Everybody dies alone" Reynolds was already so dark on the show he made even Whedon's other heroes look cheery, and that's saying something.

I mean, he's funny, but Whedon was always fairly up front with the fact that he saw Mal as a bitter, cynical former-idealist and ruthless pragmatist.

[Inkthinker]

I'm curious as to why so many people see Mal as darker in the movie than in the show.

I think it was the bit where he threatened to kill any of the crew who got in his way... you're either with me, or you're leaving, or I'm killing you.

A bit harsh, even for Mal. But it was a harsh moment.

[Calybos]

That dead guy was called "Wash", which we learned at the end was short for "Washburn." It's on his tombstone. I can't remember what it said his first name was.

Hoban Washburne. I'd change it, too.

And the Shepherd's name was Meria Book.

[Arune Singh]

I would have liked Zoe to perish- it would add pathos to Mal and Wash seemed like the heart of the show. Book's death seemed somewhat pointless for a new viewer, but for a fan, I can see the value in his death.

[LoneWolf21]

I still get a strong Outlaw Star vibe from the premise, but that's a good thing. Wash's death took me by suprise and I pretty much thought more people were going to fall in that finale. I really enjoyed it though. Heck of a film.

And to go on an X-tangent, if Buffy is supposedly Whedon's version of Kitty Pryde, I think Mal is his version of Sam Guthrie.

[Shellhead]

And to go on an X-tangent, if Buffy is supposedly Whedon's version of Kitty Pryde, I think Mal is his version of Sam Guthrie.

The skinny kid with the big ears? I don't see it. Maybe if I wore some rose-tinted glasses with big X's over the lenses...

[Amokitty]

And to go on an X-tangent, if Buffy is supposedly Whedon's version of Kitty Pryde, I think Mal is his version of Sam Guthrie.

I've actually thought for a long time now that Joss has also based Kaylee Frye on Kitty Pryde; and the closeness between Kaylee, Simon, and River is extremely similar to the personalities and relationships you find between Kitty, Colossus, and Illyana.

Just a coincidence?

[LoneWolf21]

The skinny kid with the big ears? I don't see it. Maybe if I wore some rose-tinted glasses with big X's over the lenses...

No, that's early New Mutants era Sam, he's done a lot of growing over the years.

[howyadoin]

I've actually thought for a long time now that Joss has also based Kaylee Frye on Kitty PrydeI've been thinkin' for awhile now that Jewel would make a great Kitty Pryde.

[Shellhead]

No, that's early New Mutants era Sam, he's done a lot of growing over the years.

That still sounds like an extreme stretch. Captain Malcolm Richards is pretty dark character at times, darker than Batman, darker than Wolverine. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that it's inconceivable that Sam Gutherie ever got anywhere near that level of darkness, and also that maybe X-fans need to look into other forms of entertainment more often, just to broaden their horizons some more.

[Grant]

I thought Whedon made it clear Han Solo was the main inspiration of Mal.

[Sam]

I thought Whedon made it clear Han Solo was the main inspiration of Mal.

In the interview I read before the show came out, he put Mal more down to the book The Killer Angels about the Battle of Gettysburgh than anything else, with a healthy dose of Sartre-style existentialism mixed in for good measure.

Oh, and on a spoiler front -- I just had a thought. Remember the third episode of the series, when the Reavers hit that ship, and the one survivor eventually becomes one himself? People complained at the time that it didn't make any sense, but now we know that being a Reaver is caused by some kind of chemical agent. Presumably, every now and then the Reavers expose some of their victims to it.

Which leads me to wonder: Just what, exactly, was it they shot Kaylee full of?

[Kaiju]

Which leads me to wonder: Just what, exactly, was it they shot Kaylee full of?

I thought it was a paralyzing agent of some sort but it would be really interesting if it was a concentrated dose of calming drug the Alliance was testing on Miranda.

[Chuckg]

Doubtful -- Simon knew what it was and what the antidote was without even taking time to run a full diagnostic on her, and he didn't know anything about that Pax stuff. Presumably it was just some kind of nerve toxin.

[GremlinClr]

Doubtful -- Simon knew what it was and what the antidote was without even taking time to run a full diagnostic on her, and he didn't know anything about that Pax stuff. Presumably it was just some kind of nerve toxin.

And it really wouldn't make much sense for the reavers to be able to produce it OR for it to be of any practical use since it only makes reavers 10% of the time and it's random.

[Chuckg]

One-tenth of one percent of the time.

[Grant]

In the interview I read before the show came out, he put Mal more down to the book The Killer Angels about the Battle of Gettysburgh than anything else, with a healthy dose of Sartre-style existentialism mixed in for good measure.

Well that's inspiration for the whole series. Anyways I think Han Solo more then I think Cannonball when I see Mal.

[Tages]

Well, the Reavers are awesome villains but don't make very much logical sense when you think about them for too long. If they're totally insane, then how do they cooperate? Why don't they just go batshit and attack each other, and why do they travel in packs ("28 Days Later" had the same problem)? How is it they can operate complex weaponry and machinery when, from what we can tell, they don't even communicate, at least on a verbal level beyond "GRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!" What do they eat when they're not eating people?

Of course, all that falls into Suspension of Disbelief. I'm just sayin'.

[Shellhead]

Well, the Reavers are awesome villains but don't make very much logical sense when you think about them for too long. If they're totally insane, then how do they cooperate? Why don't they just go batshit and attack each other, and why do they travel in packs ("28 Days Later" had the same problem)? How is it they can operate complex weaponry and machinery when, from what we can tell, they don't even communicate, at least on a verbal level beyond "GRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!" What do they eat when they're not eating people?

Of course, all that falls into Suspension of Disbelief. I'm just sayin'.

I've been thinking the same thing, but maybe there's another story there. Maybe they have some kind of hive-mind to coordinate their efforts and help them survive. Or maybe somebody has found a way to control them somewhat from a distance.

[Chuckg]

I was thinking that Reavers had a 'pack animal' mentality -- they only tore each other up for dominance struggles, and once the pecking order was established, it stayed that way.

It's just *everybody else* they try to eat alive and then rape to death.

[Mac Danny]

I was thinking that Reavers had a 'pack animal' mentality -- they only tore each other up for dominance struggles, and once the pecking order was established, it stayed that way.

It's just *everybody else* they try to eat alive and then rape to death.


I think if they ran out of other people they would turn on eachother.

Also are there any female reavers?? i did not see any (probably raped to death). So I guess like the third episode laid out. being a reaver is like being a Shaker. You are not born into it, you are made.

I think reavers are more like packs of dogs. There is an alpha male who keeps the pack, or ship in this case, in line.

packs of dogs that rape you to death.

[Sam]

We don't actually know that the Reavers aren't intelligent, mind you. Psychotically, uncontrollably agressive, yes. Totally unconcerned with their own survival, certainly. But just because they tend to only go "Graagh!" at the people they eat/rape/skin for clothing doesn't mean they can't think.

On the contrary, we know that they operate spaceships (albeit in a fairly suicidal manner), employ battle strategy, procure weaponry. Heck, they seem to design their own weaponry. For that matter, they decorate their ships. Decorate them with dismembered corpses, sure, but it's still an aesthetic statement. They're not zombies, they're savages. They're Firefly's version of the Comanche in old Westerns, without any of the tricky racial insensitivity issues.

[Inkthinker]

They're Firefly's version of the Comanche in old Westerns, without any of the tricky racial insensitivity issues.

Which is, I believe, the entire point.

[Grant]

We don't actually know that the Reavers aren't intelligent, mind you. Psychotically, uncontrollably agressive, yes. Totally unconcerned with their own survival, certainly. But just because they tend to only go "Graagh!" at the people they eat/rape/skin for clothing doesn't mean they can't think.

On the contrary, we know that they operate spaceships (albeit in a fairly suicidal manner), employ battle strategy, procure weaponry. Heck, they seem to design their own weaponry. For that matter, they decorate their ships. Decorate them with dismembered corpses, sure, but it's still an aesthetic statement. They're not zombies, they're savages. They're Firefly's version of the Comanche in old Westerns, without any of the tricky racial insensitivity issues.

Yeah that's the what I think. It doesn't effect their intelligence so much as their behavior. If you knew how to fly a spaceship or build weapons before you became a Reaver I'm sure you know how to do it after. I imagine it's like being on PCP or something. You can still drive a car you just don't care too much about the other people on the road.

[yeoman]

Well, Mal sat there. But it's his ship.

And he didn't move the dinosaurs.

I think it would be fun though to see River playing with them as Wash did in the pilot at some point though.

[yeoman]

I'm pretty sure Joss killed Book largely because he liked the idea of Book's mystery staying a mystery. I realized as soon as Mal and Book had that exchange along the lines of, "One of these days you'll have to tell me how you know all this," "No, I won't." that we will never, ever, ever find out Book's backstory. Even if he'd lived.

I think I like it better that way, actually. Book is a much cooler character if his past stays an enigma than if you find out he used to be an Operative or whatever. As my brother put it after the movie:

"If you find out he's an old Operative, you'll be like, oh, hey, that's cool. But if it always stays a mystery, you'll always be like [jumping up and down] oh God I want to KNOW, which is more fun."

I agree to a certain extent. It's obvious enough from the hints given in the series and dialogue in the movie. The only way to explore it would be if there were some *big* surprises and twists.

[Ontir]

"Um, I could stand to hear a bit more."

:D


I LOVE Jane!

That line reminded me of the episode where he's complaining about having to stick his neck out for strangers when Inarra says, "They're whores." to which he IMMEDIATELY responds, "I'M IN!" :D

If Ron Glass isn't dying as somone else reported, there's still a great deal of information that can be learned about him via flashbacks, and video-files. I thought it would be interesting to learn that he was working for the Alliance when he came aboard, but eventually drank his cover's Kool-aid.

As for the Operative, there's no reason to believe he didn't fall on his sword. He tells Mal he'll never see him again, and that there really isn't anything left for him to do. I think that's pretty final, unless of course, Whedon comes up with something really cool for him to do! Honestly, I half-expected him to join the crew!

I'd really like to see something done in terms of Tudyk, and maybe another character, or a character that's oddly, Whedon-esquely connected to Wash.

During the commentaries, there were several mentions that maybe they'd do a feature, and that someone would say, "Hey, this would make a great V show!" and they'd go back to it. Personally this is what I hoped for, but I'll be happy with a trilogy, and hopefully something beyond that. I really want to meet Mal's Mother, and see him return to the place he was born, even if it's only a quick visit.

[Arvandor]

Just seen it. Top film.

[howyadoin]

If Ron Glass isn't dying as somone else reported, there's still a great deal of information that can be learned about him via flashbacks, and video-files.My sources tell me he's fine.

[JeffreyWKramer]

While I liked Book a lot, his dying makes a certain bit of sense. Set up as in the movie, it helped motivate Mal. Keeping him on, he would end up being hard to write many stories around, in which case he's extraneous, and you have the problems of trying to give extraneous characters something to do - which has been ruinous to the STAR TREK films.

I'm more bothered by the death of Wash, both because he provided a lot of humor and a much-needed "everyman" quality to the cast, and because his death has the potential to make Zoe a lot less interesting. Without Wash, she's just the tough broad and the loyal companion to Mal. With Wash, we got to see an entirely different side of her, one which did a lot to round her out as a character. I suppose we've got the romance element in Simon and Kaylee now, but that just isn't gonna have the same resonance or feel as Wash and Zoe.

Damn good movie, though.

Any idea why the "Hands of Blue" guys weren't involved? Sequel plans, perhaps?

[Donald Stone]

Any idea why the "Hands of Blue" guys weren't involved? Sequel plans, perhaps?The 3 issue comic covers the stuff prior to Serenity.

Seems the blue hand folks went and got themselves killed (thanks in part to the crew) so the Operative was given the assignment of tracking River down.

[JeffreyWKramer]

The 3 issue comic covers the stuff prior to Serenity.

Seems the blue hand folks went and got themselves killed (thanks in part to the crew) so the Operative was given the assignment of tracking River down.

Sounds like I need to track down that book. Howy mentioned it on Rita's, too.

[howyadoin]

A couple questions put to me by a friend:

1. What do you think is Book's secret?

2. What do you think is Inara's secret?



And one of my own: on the Serenity website, it says, "Six rebels on the run" or words to that effect. But there were 7 people on the ship (apart from Book and Inara, obviously). Which of them isn't considered a rebel?

(It's not a trick question or anthing. It just struck me as a curious thing to say.)

[Grant]

2. What do you think is Inara's secret?


You've ever seen The Crying Game?

[boolean]

And one of my own: on the Serenity website, it says, "Six rebels on the run" or words to that effect. But there were 7 people on the ship (apart from Book and Inara, obviously). Which of them isn't considered a rebel?

"A passenger with a past."

Cut to River.

"Six rebels on the run."

Cut to everybody else. (Including Inara, but not Book, so there's seven people in the shot, but whatever.)

So I guess they're saying that River isn't just a rebel. Or something.

[EmmettHULK]

Such a great film, ignored by movie audiences... :mad:

[howyadoin]

Such a great film, ignored by movie audiences... :mad:Ignored? It made 11 million last weekend.

[howyadoin]

You've ever seen The Crying Game?I've seen her in a bikini, and it rivalled the Phoebe Cates scene in Fast Times.

No surprises there.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I've seen her in a bikini

You lucky dog.

[yeoman]

A couple questions put to me by a friend:

1. What do you think is Book's secret?


Between the movie and series it is heavily implied he used to be an Operative.

[Grant]

I've seen her in a bikini, and it rivalled the Phoebe Cates scene in Fast Times.

No surprises there.

They could always use a prosthetic.

[howyadoin]

They could always use a prosthetic.She was standing 2 feet away.

[Grant]

She was standing 2 feet away.

I'm talking about in the movie. Like Boogie Nights. You think Marky Mark has a 14 inch schlong?

[Deathstroke]

Ignored? It made 11 million last weekend.


It got ignored this weekend. It came in 9th with $4.925 million dollars.

[Deathstroke]

I've seen her in a bikini, and it rivalled the Phoebe Cates scene in Fast Times.

No surprises there.

Yes, but now the question becomes can she pull off the Wonder Woman star spangled panties?

I say yes.

[Ontir]

Whedon's said that there won't be "star-spangled-panties," and THANK GOD! That's something that needed updating in the comic for bloody-ever!

I think Inarra's secret (and a not very well kept one) is that she desperately loves Mal. The problem is, that if she gives herself to him, she can't do her job anymore, and that's the only truly legal operation going on aboard Serenity.

My theory for the longest time, was that Book was a plant, but that at some point, he found a new life for himself in his cover story. I kind of like that, because it says that redemption can be found, by anyone, if they just look for it.

[yeoman]

Whedon's said that there won't be "star-spangled-panties," and THANK GOD! That's something that needed updating in the comic for bloody-ever!

I think Inarra's secret (and a not very well kept one) is that she desperately loves Mal. The problem is, that if she gives herself to him, she can't do her job anymore, and that's the only truly legal operation going on aboard Serenity.


I think the secret being discussed is why she left the Companions main temple originally. Before she even met Mal. That's not touched on in themovie, and is really only mentioned in a couple episodes.

And be fair, they do legal stuff. Those just wouldn't be as much fun for episodes. Oh, and Book has taken legal passage. He might even be paying for it. :)

[Donald Stone]

Oh, and Book has taken legal passage. He might even be paying for it. :)Nope. He mentions in Train Job that he hasn't any way to pay Mal.

[Slappy san]

That still sounds like an extreme stretch. Captain Malcolm Richards is pretty dark character at times, darker than Batman, darker than Wolverine. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that it's inconceivable that Sam Gutherie ever got anywhere near that level of darkness, and also that maybe X-fans need to look into other forms of entertainment more often, just to broaden their horizons some more.

Reynolds







...............

[Matt]

Nope. He mentions in Train Job that he hasn't any way to pay Mal.

I'm fairly sure Book says that he has some coin ... and at one point he gives the crew something far more precious: fresh food and produce.

[Donald Stone]

I'm fairly sure Book says that he has some coin ... and at one point he gives the crew something far more precious: fresh food and produce.That was to pay his way to Whitefall. He sure didn't have anymore.

[Shellhead]

Reynolds







...............

Doh! That's what I get for flipping back over here after catching up on some reading in the Rumbles Board. Curse you, Richards!

[Matt]

That was to pay his way to Whitefall. He sure didn't have anymore.

He puts in some money to buy back Mal and Wash in 'War Stories' which is odd, since he generally isn't involved in the smuggling and other criminal activities.

Otherwise, I have to assume he gets free passage because Mal sees him as being part of The Crew and thus treats him just like Inara or Jayne.

[yeoman]

He puts in some money to buy back Mal and Wash in 'War Stories' which is odd, since he generally isn't involved in the smuggling and other criminal activities.

Otherwise, I have to assume he gets free passage because Mal sees him as being part of The Crew and thus treats him just like Inara or Jayne.


That, or he wants to keep everyone who knows about Simon and River in the same place.

Also, like Inara, he adds a bit of respectibility. Even before they started getting some hints about his past.

[Perry Holley]

Serenity in 2000 Words or Less (http://www.swartzer.com/writing/serenity2000.php)

"Whedon, you bastard!"

[Ontir]

In terms of Book, he was also able to get medical treatment at an Alliance Hospital with the flash of an ID, and no further questions being asked. I think the eventual resolution of that story, the possible up-sides to having someone who can do that, as well as finding out if he's putting them at risk, would be worth keeping him around for as long as possible. IIRC, he also took some part in the things they did, and on the occassions that the did find legal work, I'm sure he'd have no problem participating in that, as a way to earn his passage.

[howyadoin]

I think the secret being discussed is why she left the Companions main temple originally. Before she even met Mal. That's not touched on in themovie, and is really only mentioned in a couple episodes.I wasn't referring to anything specific, actually. Somebody just posed the question to me about her past and her secret; it never occurred to me till that point that she even had a secret.

[Ontir]

IIRC, Inarra seemed to hint in one of the episodes, that she'd fallen for someone, which made her work more difficult, and that's when she hooked up with the Serenity, where she immediately and despite her best efforts, fell for Mal.

[kalorama]

I'm pretty sure Joss killed Book largely because he liked the idea of Book's mystery staying a mystery.

He killed him because there's an unwritten rule in sci-fi movies that the Black guy always dies.

[Gaz]

He killed him because there's an unwritten rule in sci-fi movies that the Black guy always dies.
What about the chubby white guy that represents the writer?

[Grant]

What about the chubby white guy that represents the writer?

Well they killed the skinny white guy that represents the writer...

[Shellhead]

I was slightly surprised to see Serenity was still showing at a theatre near my place. That particular theatre has three screens near the front of the mall and maybe eight more screens towards the back of the mall, and they try to put the popular movies in the front three, which is where they are still showing Serenity.

So I took a look at Box Office Mojo to see how Serenity has been doing, and it's already made over $30 million, counting overseas. If the budget was $40 million, than they should turn a decent profit once the dvd is available.

[Ontir]

I felt certain that Serenity would make it's money back, and doing so, secure it's sequels. Now, Warner's just needs to get a clue from this (not to mention Star Trek) and realise that people do want to see more of sci-fi series, with the original cast in place, and greenlight JMS' Remebrance of Shadows, preferably with Janet Greek directing!

[Shellhead]

Btw, Marvel will be publishing a trade for volume 1 of "Six From Sirius", a science-fiction mini-series by Doug Moench and Paul Gulacy. The artwork, the story and the dialogue are all very good, and in some ways, it reminds me of Firefly, especially the humor. Give it a look at the comic shop next month.

[Patient Boy]

Finally got to watch the single screening they had in Singapore for rabid Whedon fans. Loved it, as did my friend who had never watched Firefly. I think it was quite accessible even for new viewers. I must say I enjoyed this a lot more than I did Revenge of the Sith.

Also, I'm hugely jealous of Howyadoin.

[Deathstroke]

Finally got to watch the single screening they had in Singapore for rabid Whedon fans. Loved it, as did my friend who had never watched Firefly. I think it was quite accessible even for new viewers. I must say I enjoyed this a lot more than I did Revenge of the Sith.

Also, I'm hugely jealous of Howyadoin.

Glad to read that you loved the movie. I'm hoping that it does gangbuster business when it hits DVD on December 20th here in the US. I'd love to see another movie.

[Patient Boy]

Glad to read that you loved the movie. I'm hoping that it does gangbuster business when it hits DVD on December 20th here in the US. I'd love to see another movie.

I know it didn't do too well in the States, but I'm hopeful it becomes one of those shows that does better in video sales then in the cinema. The same was true of the series wasn't it? A lot of viewers who didn't manage to watch Firefly the first time around got it on DVD, and that was what gave Whedon the leverage to make Serenity the movie?

[Deathstroke]

I know it didn't do too well in the States, but I'm hopeful it becomes one of those shows that does better in video sales then in the cinema. The same was true of the series wasn't it? A lot of viewers who didn't manage to watch Firefly the first time around got it on DVD, and that was what gave Whedon the leverage to make Serenity the movie?

Yep that's basically what it was.

[cactusmaac]

Personally I thought this was pretty disappointing and nowhere near among the best movies released in 2005.

I'd watched two or three Firefly episodes when they aired on SCi-Fi here, and even with that background knowledge, too much of the character interactions and backstory felt like it was aimed at the viewer who'd seen all the episodes, read all the comics, hunted down every Whedon interview around and wrote Firefly fanfic.

The cast is quite pedestrian. River's about as engaging as Jar Jar Binks, Simon is boring and milquetoast, Kaylee is just there, Mr Universe is thoroughly annoying, Book is a walking cliche and though Mal has a few good moments -chiefly with the Operative- he fails to give the Harrison Ford\Clint Eastwood badass vibe that the central character in a sci-fi western\space opera demands. Even worse, the Operative is bland and low-key. I suppose Whedon was going for a vibe of utterly efficient and ruthless competence, but I kept feeling Eifejor needed to chew a lot more scenery and skip all the self-awareness malarkey. That being said I thought Wash, Innara - far too nice, clean-cut and middle-class to pass for a courtesan but whatthehellshelooksnice - and Gina Torres did OK. Jayne was great. Every time he was on screen, I wondered why he wasn't the lead since westerns tend to play best with simple types writ large.

Another complaint is that the story lacks imagination and the kind of epic scale that movie westerns and sci-fi tend to command. It is very much restricted by its' TV roots - it feels like Bonanza, not a John Ford, Kurosowa or Flash Gordon type movie.

Finally, I really doubt a government as mean and tyrannical as the Alliance would be seriously undone by the recording from Miranda. They would easily have used disinformation to discredit it and ensure that it remained a secret by use of the usual weapons that state terror employs.

[Allen Klingelhoets]

I watched entire series on DVD. I also bought comic book series. I even bought serenity movie. I even had lettler published in issue # 1 of comic book series.

[shades of eternity]

Personally I thought this was pretty disappointing and nowhere near among the best movies released in 2005.

I'd watched two or three Firefly episodes when they aired on SCi-Fi here, and even with that background knowledge, too much of the character interactions and backstory felt like it was aimed at the viewer who'd seen all the episodes, read all the comics, hunted down every Whedon interview around and wrote Firefly fanfic.

The cast is quite pedestrian. River's about as engaging as Jar Jar Binks, Simon is boring and milquetoast, Kaylee is just there, Mr Universe is thoroughly annoying, Book is a walking cliche and though Mal has a few good moments -chiefly with the Operative- he fails to give the Harrison Ford\Clint Eastwood badass vibe that the central character in a sci-fi western\space opera demands. Even worse, the Operative is bland and low-key. I suppose Whedon was going for a vibe of utterly efficient and ruthless competence, but I kept feeling Eifejor needed to chew a lot more scenery and skip all the self-awareness malarkey. That being said I thought Wash, Innara - far too nice, clean-cut and middle-class to pass for a courtesan but whatthehellshelooksnice - and Gina Torres did OK. Jayne was great. Every time he was on screen, I wondered why he wasn't the lead since westerns tend to play best with simple types writ large.

Another complaint is that the story lacks imagination and the kind of epic scale that movie westerns and sci-fi tend to command. It is very much restricted by its' TV roots - it feels like Bonanza, not a John Ford, Kurosowa or Flash Gordon type movie.

Finally, I really doubt a government as mean and tyrannical as the Alliance would be seriously undone by the recording from Miranda. They would easily have used disinformation to discredit it and ensure that it remained a secret by use of the usual weapons that state terror employs.

At least we agree with something...Jayne rocks :cool:

er, it's supposed to have a feel like a western in space, even if they toned it down.

imagination? this one comment leaves me scratching it's head.

The thing is the alliance isn't a evil empire in the tradition of star wars. It has some very good things about it. Because it is a democratic society with heavy chinese overtones, this signal is the equivelent of watergate and is going to cause some serious changes. Then again that wasn't mal's main goal. It was to save himself and his crew by using what they found as a bargining chip.

[Shellhead]

The worst things that I can say about Serenity is that the acting seemed a little stiff in the early scenes on the ship, and minute for minute, the movie wasn't as good as the better episodes of the tv show. Still, it was a pretty good science-fiction movie, easily the best of 2005.