Teen Titans-Worst Couples [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

SUPERECWFAN1

10-01-2005, 07:27 PM

I'm gonna say Dick and Kory at the end and now. Its like some writers ( Winick ) keep beating that dead horse wanting it to happen and its time has sadly passed.

They were good for a short while and thats it. Time moved on and the DC Editors seem stuck with what to do with Dick Grayson romance wise. The Bat Editors still say him and Barbera will hook back up and thats the wisest thing.

tangentman

10-01-2005, 08:01 PM

The "Kingdom Come" introduction of Nightstar also keeps hope alive for the Dick/Kory shippers. She appeared three times after that mini and set up the possibility that our star-crossed Titans reunite in the future. Of course, couples can repeatedly split and come back together for brief "reunions", so it's not necessarily "beating a dead horse". In fact, who would have thought of Dick and Barbara seriously having a chance as a couple before "Birds of Prey"? THAT could just as easily be considered a "dead horse" relationship by some.

Other bad relationships:

I agree with Jessie Quick's fling as an example of bad relationship.
Also add the failed Arsenal/Dakota relationship from "Titans".
Lilith/Gnaark
Cyborg/Sarah Charles--he should have ended up with Sarah Simms, imo.
Nightwing/Mirage

Sean Whitmore

10-01-2005, 08:15 PM

In fact, who would have thought of Dick and Barbara seriously having a chance as a couple before "Birds of Prey"? THAT could just as easily be considered a "dead horse" relationship by some.

Before Dixon, I didn't even know Dick and Barbara EVER had feelings for one another.

Dixon (and later, Grayson) kinda made it seem like Dick and Babs were destined to be together, or that it was the most natural thing in the world. Was there ever any indication of that back when Batgirl was regularly appearing in the comics? The only Robin/Batgirl relationship I remember from back in the day had to do with Betty Kane.

SEAN

Grant

10-01-2005, 08:17 PM

Deathstroke and Terra I mean ewwww.

Gingold

10-01-2005, 08:52 PM

Wally and Francis Kane
Dick and Mirage
Gar and that pink-haired girl (Jillian?)
Donna and Terry
Donna and Kyle
Donna and Roy
Raven and Joey
Cassie and Superboy

Gingold

10-01-2005, 08:54 PM

Before Dixon, I didn't even know Dick and Barbara EVER had feelings for one another.

Dixon (and later, Grayson) kinda made it seem like Dick and Babs were destined to be together, or that it was the most natural thing in the world. Was there ever any indication of that back when Batgirl was regularly appearing in the comics? The only Robin/Batgirl relationship I remember from back in the day had to do with Betty Kane.

SEAN

I think they teamed up pretty frequently in the pages of Batman Family. I think Dick had a crush on her, but she was a little too old for him (she was a congresswoman for a while there). Certainly never anything really serious or interesting as what Dick and Kory had.

Zeta

10-01-2005, 10:14 PM

Bumblebee and Gabriel always felt to me like the Bee was slumming. :p

Cassie and Superboy is so lead cheerleader/captain of the football team it makes me ill.

LoneWolf21

10-01-2005, 10:19 PM

Cassie and Superboy

Ah, they're not that bad. It's at least something that remindsme of the happier times of Young Justice.

Sir Tim Drake

10-01-2005, 10:21 PM

Wally and Francis Kane
Dick and Mirage
Gar and that pink-haired girl (Jillian?)
Donna and Terry
Donna and Kyle
Donna and Roy
Raven and Joey
Cassie and Superboy

I thought Gar and Jillian were a pretty cute couple, though they didn't get much screen time together.

But speaking of Raven and Joey, another lousy "couple" was Joey and Kole. I remember one issue where Joey woke up to find that Kole had gotten into bed with him while he'd been asleep. How creepy is that?

Charagon

10-01-2005, 10:42 PM

In fact, who would have thought of Dick and Barbara seriously having a chance as a couple before "Birds of Prey"?

People who grew up with the animated series.

LoneWolf21

10-01-2005, 10:43 PM

In fact, who would have thought of Dick and Barbara seriously having a chance as a couple before "Birds of Prey"?

People who grew up with the animated series.

Yeah, that's the case for me.

SUPERECWFAN1

10-01-2005, 10:43 PM

But speaking of Raven and Joey, another lousy "couple" was Joey and Kole. I remember one issue where Joey woke up to find that Kole had gotten into bed with him while he'd been asleep. How creepy is that?

Yeah...hows does a deaf guy yell " Rape " ? That woulda been funny.

I do think that Grayson and Dixon did a solid job on Dick/Barbara. That Kingdom Come Universe sadly seems to be getting retconned now after years of DC doin the " Is it gonna happen ? Maybe...maybe not " dance.

K'Nort

10-01-2005, 10:45 PM

Deathstroke and Terra I mean ewwww.

That was the big one, all right. Not even just the concept but the actual scenes. Not "those" kinds of scenes, of course, but just her in the stupid trashy white dress with too much make-up and talking tough.

Patience

10-02-2005, 02:21 AM

My feelings on Donna and Kyle are well-documented elsewhere on the Internet.

Calybos

10-02-2005, 06:19 AM

You've hit the low points already: Deathstroke and Terra ("I know! I'll molest a crazy teenager to keep her in line!"), Donna and Kyle (Donna seems to be the test-market for every writer's bad ideas about what to try next), any use of Kole whatsoever...

but the all-time worst pairing, that still makes me shudder: Lilith and Gnarrk.

What's that? Never heard of 'em, you say? Shame on you for not knowing your Silver Age embarrassments! Learn more, and recoil in horror, at

http://www.geocities.com/cheeksilver/teentitans.htm
http://www.geocities.com/cheeksilver/dcsilly10.htm

Thnikkaman

10-02-2005, 07:55 AM

I say it's gotta be Roy and Cheshire.

I mean... when she nuked a whole damn country, someone should've pulled Roy aside and said "Hey! Idiot! She's a nutball! Stop with the pining!"

Gingold

10-02-2005, 09:44 AM

Ah, they're not that bad. It's at least something that remindsme of the happier times of Young Justice.

Anything that reminds me of Young Justice isn't a good thing.

Sir Tim Drake

10-02-2005, 11:54 AM

DMike

10-02-2005, 12:03 PM

Deathstroke and Terra I mean ewwww.

Ding ding ding, we have our winner! We can agree or disagree with whether or not we liked the other couples, but I think we can all agree on the wrongness of this one.

Patience

10-02-2005, 01:08 PM

Donna + Kyle = horrible. Reading Green Lantern #70 is still an excruciating experience. Kyle is completely in the wrong, and he behaves like an immature moron and an idiot. And yet, because the story is narrated in first-person by Kyle, the reader is apparently supposed to sympathize with him.

You know, what's so wrong about that is that now I want to track down GL #70 and read it.

I really hope Donna and Kyle both being in space doesn't mean they'll hook up again (unless its to quickly break up again). I like Kyle better unattached, bemoaning his bad luck with women. I mean, they set the pattern early on in Marz's run -- His girlfriend is murder within a week of his becoming Green Lanter, the next girl he sleeps with commits suicide, then Donna, then Jade -- they should stick with it. In contrast with Hal, who's in to get laid and move on, Kyle should go in thinking about the long run and end up in the worst possible scenario -- His lovers turn evil, go insane, leave him to further a fantaical cause, ascend to a higher reality and leave him in this universe, leave him for utter jerks...etc... Who's for the next Star Sapphire being Kyle's girlfriend (Yet, strangely, she's fixated on fighting Hal -- who doesn't want to hurt her because Kyle would freak out)?

Captain Jim

10-02-2005, 08:36 PM

Donna and Terry

Hey, I really liked that one!

Anthony Johanson

10-02-2005, 09:06 PM

Dick and Kory, and Deathstroke and Terra.

Sir Tim Drake

10-02-2005, 09:14 PM

Hey, I really liked that one!

You know what, so did I. Despite the age gap and the allegations of Terry being a stand-in for Marv (who looks nothing like him), Donna and Terry were a classic couple. The issue with their wedding was one of Marv and George's masterpieces.

Sean Whitmore

10-02-2005, 09:17 PM

Hey, I really liked that one!

I always thought Terry was kind of a puss. And then when he left Donna and took the kid, he was promoted to fullblown a-hole.

SEAN

Captain Jim

10-02-2005, 09:29 PM

when he left Donna and took the kid, he was promoted to fullblown a-hole.

Hmm, I think that must have been after I dropped the book. Who wrote that? Anyway, it *was* his kid, not Donna's.

Sean Whitmore

10-02-2005, 09:36 PM

Hmm, I think that must have been after I dropped the book. Who wrote that? Anyway, it *was* his kid, not Donna's.

I'm reasonably sure it wasn't in New Titans. Might've been in Team Titans, or more likely Byrne's Wonder Woman. Poooooossibly in Green Lantern.

And true, it was Terry's kid, but that's a real slap in the face to say "you just can't see him (it was a him, right?) anymore" after they grew so close. It's not like Donna was a junkie or something.

SEAN

Grant

10-02-2005, 11:17 PM

Did anyone date Jericho?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/82/Jericho.PNG

Probably not with that hair and jesus those clothes. George Perez has many talents. Character designing ain't one of them.

Sean Whitmore

10-02-2005, 11:26 PM

Did anyone date Jericho?

Pretty much every woman in New York. Jericho was a PIMP.

As for Titans...I think he and Raven had feelings for each other, but I don't think they ever went anywhere.

SEAN

Grant

10-02-2005, 11:26 PM

Pretty much every woman in New York. Jericho was a PIMP.

The effect coccaine had on the 1980s is devasting.

As for Titans...I think he and Raven had feelings for each other, but I don't think they ever went anywhere.

She probably couldn't get past the sideburns.

Sean Whitmore

10-02-2005, 11:29 PM

She probably couldn't get past the sideburns.

She's one to talk...she had a widow's peak that could slice bread.

SEAN

Grant

10-02-2005, 11:31 PM

She's one to talk...she had a widow's peak that could slice bread.

Is there George Perez design that isn't lame?

LoneWolf21

10-03-2005, 12:55 AM

Is there George Perez design that isn't lame?

Raven with the deadly widow's peak...Jericho with mutton chops, afro, and Zanfir, Master of the pan flute's clothes...disco collar Nightwing... Scarlet Witch the gypsy stripper....Firestar wearing either facepaint or really weird sunglasses...The original Troia costume...

I'm having trouble finding a good one off the top of my head.

Calybos

10-03-2005, 05:58 AM

Raven with the deadly widow's peak...Jericho with mutton chops, afro, and Zanfir, Master of the pan flute's clothes...disco collar Nightwing... Scarlet Witch the gypsy stripper....Firestar wearing either facepaint or really weird sunglasses...The original Troia costume...

Hey, don't disrepsect the gypsy stripper! If there were more gypsy strippers, this world would be a better place.

Tennoarashi

10-03-2005, 07:42 AM

I'm reasonably sure it wasn't in New Titans. Might've been in Team Titans, or more likely Byrne's Wonder Woman. Poooooossibly in Green Lantern.

And true, it was Terry's kid, but that's a real slap in the face to say "you just can't see him (it was a him, right?) anymore" after they grew so close. It's not like Donna was a junkie or something.

SEANIt was in John Byrne's Wonder Woman - that was the catalyst for him to go into the whole Dark Angel thing.

And Jennifer was Terry's daughter, but Robert was her's. And it's a little unnerving to... Well, it would have been nice to see more internal monologue about her thinking of her dead son.

I thought Terry was great until Wolfman left the book - although he needed a shave.

And I thought Terry bore a scary resembelance to Len Wein, not Wolfman.

But to contribute; what I think is the worst Titans couple was Jesse Quick and her Mom's fiance.

I'm having trouble finding a good one off the top of my head.I thought his civvies and royalty were the best. Most notably Donna's wedding dress and Hippolyta's entire design.

Shade

10-03-2005, 08:50 AM

My feelings on Donna and Kyle are well-documented elsewhere on the Internet.

Um, I read that and it's kinda scary. You do realize that Marz had no choice in the matter and was more than happy to continue the awesome relationship he had developed between Kyle and Donna til Byrne decided he wanted her for Wonder Woman, and did NOTHING of worth.

The whole Donna/Roy thing was Grayson soap opera-bleah! Should have never happened.

dazzler_slave

10-03-2005, 01:02 PM

It was in John Byrne's Wonder Woman - that was the catalyst for him to go into the whole Dark Angel thing.

And Jennifer was Terry's daughter, but Robert was her's. And it's a little unnerving to... Well, it would have been nice to see more internal monologue about her thinking of her dead son.

I thought Terry was great until Wolfman left the book - although he needed a shave.

And I thought Terry bore a scary resembelance to Len Wein, not Wolfman.

But to contribute; what I think is the worst Titans couple was Jesse Quick and her Mom's fiance.

I thought his civvies and royalty were the best. Most notably Donna's wedding dress and Hippolyta's entire design.

Actually, Terry DID take the kids during the New Titans right after Zero Hour. Donna had just become a Darkstar and they were having marital problems. He felt that after living through endless attacks on their farm during Team Titans, Donna was a danger to their son (he was both of their's, not just Donna's) and he filed for divorce and sued for custody of their child. During the 1995 New Titans Annual, they were going to court when a villain attacked Donna in court, thus justifying Terry's claims that she was a danger to her child, and the judge granted Terry sole custody of Robert. Donna later appeared in Green Lantern, and it was in this title that she discovered that Terry, Robert and Jennifer had been killed in a car accident, but it wasn't until a year later (1998) in Byrne's Wonder Woman that it was revealed that Dark Angel was behind the killings. Oh, and Marv wrote right until New Titans ended with 120 so he was behind their breakup etc.

Tennoarashi

10-03-2005, 01:17 PM

Actually, Terry DID take the kids during the New Titans right after Zero Hour. Donna had just become a Darkstar and they were having marital problems. He felt that after living through endless attacks on their farm during Team Titans, Donna was a danger to their son (he was both of their's, not just Donna's) and he filed for divorce and sued for custody of their child. During the 1995 New Titans Annual, they were going to court when a villain attacked Donna in court, thus justifying Terry's claims that she was a danger to her child, and the judge granted Terry sole custody of Robert. Donna later appeared in Green Lantern, and it was in this title that she discovered that Terry, Robert and Jennifer had been killed in a car accident, but it wasn't until a year later (1998) in Byrne's Wonder Woman that it was revealed that Dark Angel was behind the killings. Oh, and Marv wrote right until New Titans ended with 120 so he was behind their breakup etc.
That's terrible! Poor Donna. I am really suprised this wasn't touched upon more. Even if they want to streamline her, these kinds of events are generally pretty important.

Though, I don't think Marv was behind it, considering he said this:
Marv Wolfman on the Donna and Terry break-up

"The break up happened in Team Titans after I left it. I disagreed with it and said so, but the writer did it anyway. It was wrong in my mind to do it--Donna and Terry would not suddenly split up that way. They may have split up if we saw a real problem between them but I just had them occasionally have Donna's power come between them--something they would have gotten through. Once the divorce was done though, and I got the character back, I could not simply undo what was done. Hence my following up on it etc. It was an editorial decision that led Donna to Kyle...which I also don't feel was right, but had no real reason to argue. IF Donna split with Terry and Dick was splitting with Kory, I would have very slowly had Dick and Donna get together...which I did suggest in an overview memo.

Sean Whitmore

10-03-2005, 01:26 PM

Tennoarashi

10-03-2005, 01:32 PM

Yeah, I remember Wolfman's comments on the Donna/Terry split. Though I am thankful his Dick/Donna idea never came to fruition. I prefer their "brother-sister" relationship...having him fall for the girl he grew up with is just horribly cliche.

SEAN
Hear hear. I really love Donna and Dick's relationship the way it is. And her first origin story is the best example of that relationship.

Sir Tim Drake

10-03-2005, 04:03 PM

Probably not with that hair and jesus those clothes. George Perez has many talents. Character designing ain't one of them.

Those are fighting words! :D Don't you realize he designed Starfire?

Tennoarashi

10-03-2005, 05:46 PM

Those are fighting words! :D Don't you realize he designed Starfire?
Her and her drag queen hair. :D

hotrodimus

10-03-2005, 06:53 PM

lilith with azarael
lilith with gnarrk

cant lilith have anyone at least "normal"?

Patience

10-03-2005, 09:50 PM

Um, I read that and it's kinda scary. You do realize that Marz had no choice in the matter and was more than happy to continue the awesome relationship he had developed between Kyle and Donna til Byrne decided he wanted her for Wonder Woman, and did NOTHING of worth.

The whole Donna/Roy thing was Grayson soap opera-bleah! Should have never happened.

I know, I was reading at the time. All 3 books -- Byrne's Wonder Woman, Marz's Green Lantern, and Grayson's Titans. (And no, I didn't waste money on them, I read my sister's copies) It was painfully obvious she was getting traded through offices.

But, "The writer made me do it" is no excuse, or else no character could be said to have any character or spark of life. We should be able to fully imagine these characters as people, and not "Random Acts of Senseless Editorialism" or else why bother reading at all? Plus, I find it relaxing to try and fathom a reason for some of the more out of character actions. I can usually find a way to make stories make sense without mind control (Except for Gawain's behavior in any Tristam story -- villiany just doesn't seem to jive with the several-hundred year history of King Arthur's nephew for me *Shrug*)

Until it's retconned out or explained away as mind control, it's still part of her history that she dumped Kyle Rayner for Roy Harper (!?) and part of my official reasons for hating Donna. If this is ever retconned away, I've still got twelve other reasons for feeling she's a waste of panel-space.

Out of curiousity (and not in a sarcastic, flamy way, because I do like to converse nicely), why did you find my rant on Donna Troy so scary? I didn't advocate violence against the character, the writers, or the editors. I merely laid out why I don't enjoy her appearances, and why I don't understand her fanatical fan-base.

Unless it's scary that I bought her miniseries with my own money. Yes, that frightened me too. Some strange masochistic compulsion.

tangentman

10-03-2005, 10:49 PM

As someone who was around for the Donna/Terry romance during the original Wolfman/Perez run, I liked their relationship. Terry, as he first appeared, was a well-adjusted and friendly hunk who gave Donna the stability and promise of family that she craved so much. They grew together naturally over the course of three years (real time) and roughly two years in comic book time. I thought that theirs was a different and more adult relationship than the average comic book romance, and marked an important maturation in Donna's character.

Yes, the relationship ended horridly in TEAM TITANS. I can't see that storyline happening without plenty of off-panel influence from Marcia (Terry's hag of an ex-wife). Pairing Donna with Kyle indeed reeked of editorial influence. The way she was demoted from "competent superheroine" to "girlfriend in peril" grated me. I hope that Donna DOESN'T hook back up with Kyle for this reason alone!

Grant

10-04-2005, 04:21 AM

Her and her drag queen hair. :D

She's pratically RuPaul with green energy eyes.

http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/bigimages/starfire.jpg

Seriously this late 70s and early 80s costume desiging at it's most garish. Dazzler laughs at that outfit.

Forsaken_One

10-04-2005, 04:22 AM

Pairing Donna with Kyle indeed reeked of editorial influence. The way she was demoted from "competent superheroine" to "girlfriend in peril" grated me. I hope that Donna DOESN'T hook back up with Kyle for this reason alone!
Because pairing them up again under different writers, a different title, and different artists with different editors would lead to the same thing?

titanfan

10-04-2005, 09:16 AM

Cassie and Superboy is so lead cheerleader/captain of the football team it makes me ill.

It was fine in Young Justice. Cassie was still the nerd girl in her YJ days. She slowly grew into her looks, but her personality was still of the awkward girl who S-Boy only saw as a friend. Because of that, I still don't see them as the "super couple" they probably are portrayed as now.

I've come to accept that (like Black Canary) Donna just has bad taste in men.

dazzler_slave

10-04-2005, 10:31 AM

Tennoarashi wrote:
Though, I don't think Marv was behind it, considering he said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitansTower.Com
Marv Wolfman on the Donna and Terry break-up

"The break up happened in Team Titans after I left it. I disagreed with it and said so, but the writer did it anyway. It was wrong in my mind to do it--Donna and Terry would not suddenly split up that way. They may have split up if we saw a real problem between them but I just had them occasionally have Donna's power come between them--something they would have gotten through. Once the divorce was done though, and I got the character back, I could not simply undo what was done. Hence my following up on it etc. It was an editorial decision that led Donna to Kyle...which I also don't feel was right, but had no real reason to argue. IF Donna split with Terry and Dick was splitting with Kory, I would have very slowly had Dick and Donna get together...which I did suggest in an overview memo.

That's wierd cuz I definitely know he wrote that last storyarc on New Titans, which was about 2 years after their break-up. He must have just come back to do the Titans' swan song. It was the last 4 issues of the title. There must have been a different writer in between. However, he's right, I think they actually broke up right at the end of Team Titans, and someone else was writing that title too.

dazzler_slave

10-04-2005, 10:39 AM

She's pratically RuPaul with green energy eyes.

http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/bigimages/starfire.jpg

Seriously this late 70s and early 80s costume desiging at it's most garish. Dazzler laughs at that outfit.

And Dazzler's slave laughs at Starfire too...because my mistress Dazzler gave me permission to. She says that even Boney M and Earth, Wind and Fire had better taste in clothes than Starfire. :p

Tennoarashi

10-04-2005, 07:03 PM

Patience, that was the best anti-anything rant I've ever read. You laid out the evidence and your arguments extremely well - and I -am- a Donna fan. I may disagree with you, but I can't disagree that it was well written. Wow.

Gingold

10-04-2005, 07:12 PM

George Perez has many talents. Character designing ain't one of them.

Yeah, but you never notice how bad the costumes are when George draws them himself. He always manages to make them look cool somehow. But when anyone else attempts them, they look hideous.

Patience

10-04-2005, 09:28 PM

Grant

10-07-2005, 05:37 AM

Yeah, but you never notice how bad the costumes are when George draws them himself. He always manages to make them look cool somehow. But when anyone else attempts them, they look hideous.

Big collar Nightwing will be lame no matter who draws him. Ditto bare thigh Cyborg. Now Dave Cockrum that guy could design a costume. Sleek and simple. They still use most of his X-Men designs.

I'll give Perez Deathstroke. That's it.