To those of you who feel Venom SHOULD NOT be in Spidy 3 read this [Archive]

Captbigbeard

09-30-2005, 12:04 PM

Charagon

09-30-2005, 03:43 PM

You're wrong.

Captbigbeard

09-30-2005, 04:08 PM

You're wrong.

Why? Perhaps a maybe but I'll never know unless u explain it to me.

Jake V

09-30-2005, 04:09 PM

Captbigbeard

09-30-2005, 04:24 PM

Completely and utterly wrong.

Maybe this is arguable, BUT who else is then Spider-Man's archnemisis. It can't be The Goblins, cause they all die! You kinda have to be alive. Doc Ok is classic, but surly not his archnemisis. Can't be the lizard, shocker (tehehehe), or Kraven (Great Villain, but dead a long time ago). Venom is a constant threat, knows EVERYTHING there is to know about parker, is immune to one of parker's strongest powers, and is in more comics then ANY OTHER VILLIAN (Maybe not good ones, but still!). Not to mention he is the most popular Villain EVER. marvel Nemisis, bad game, but so many fans begged for Venom he was put in. Ultimate Spider-Man GREAT GAME, fans begged him to be in it, so they did! What other villain is THAT popular? How is he NOT spider-mans archnemisis. I seem to hear a whole lot of people complaining but no one's really said anything to help them prove their point! Give me a good sensible reason to take back what I said and I will! Hell he's been declared Spidy's archnemis by BIG named people like the writer of Ultimate spider-man, and I'll look for the Raimi's interview in which he says the same!

CAN'T ANYONE BACK THEMSELVES UP ANYMORE!

Jake V

09-30-2005, 04:27 PM

What?

Green Goblin is very much alive right now. Eddie Brock, on the other hand, is very dead.

Unless you mean the Mac Gargan Venom.

The Blue Devil

09-30-2005, 04:41 PM

Scorpion+Symbiot=NotVenom=Not Ultimate Enemie

Norman+Green Goblin=Ultimate Enemie. That's how the formula works, buddy.

Captbigbeard

09-30-2005, 04:47 PM

What?

Green Goblin is very much alive right now. Eddie Brock, on the other hand, is very dead.

Unless you mean the Mac Gargan Venom.

Eddie Brock ain't dead. He never died! If you read the comic the last thing said about him is... "It dosen't look like eddie's gonna make it through the night." Tsk Tsk, whats the number one villian rule! Their not dead unless you see the body, even then who knows. I find it VERY hard to doubt we won't see eddie brock in the near future. And as far is green goblen goes there have been so many goblins, and most of them have died. He can't be spidy's big time nemisis.

Scorpion+Symbiot=NotVenom=Not Ultimate Enemie

Norman+Green Goblin=Ultimate Enemie. That's how the formula works, buddy.

Allright I'll admit the more I think about it the idea behind Green Gobbo being the ultimate ENEMY (Not ENEMIE. TSK TSK!) the more I have to think about it, Green Gobbos is close runner up, but I still think Venom is the Ultimate Villian, and archnemisis of spidy. How can a guy in a goblin custome and a pink thong compare to a brain eating alien costume that controls you! Yes our lovible Norman has caused spidy GREAT pain but he's never been that much of a deadly threat to spider-man himself. Not when compared to Venom, Carange, Doc Ock, or Kraven!

Jake V

09-30-2005, 04:53 PM

Eddie Brock ain't dead. He never died! If you read the comic the last thing said about him is... "It dosen't look like eddie's gonna make it through the night." Tsk Tsk, whats the number one villian rule! Their not dead unless you see the body, even then who knows. I find it VERY hard to doubt we won't see eddie brock in the near future. And as far is green goblen goes there have been so many goblins, and most of them have died. He can't be spidy's big time nemisis.
Only Harry Osborn has died, and he's not the Green Goblin I'm talking about.

If you want to count the "deaths" of Norman Osborn, you should also count the hundreds of "deaths" of the Joker. If an enemy "dying" means that they can't be the arch-nemesis, than how can Joker be Batman's? I mean, you said he is, didn't you?

The fact is, the Green Goblin has done more horrible things to Peter Parker than Venom can ever dream of. He's been around way longer as well.

Venom is certainly interesting when he's not being a "lethal protector", and he surely makes for a cool visual, but he's not nearly on the same level as the Green Goblin. Only the hardest of hardcore Venom fans will think that he's anything more than a B-level Spidey villain.

Charagon

09-30-2005, 04:55 PM

The Blue Devil

09-30-2005, 04:59 PM

^Elaborating on that (Ignoring my spelling) he's more so like CatWoman, or other such characters as she, IE they're your enemy one moment, your ally the next. (Well, a simigood guy, in Venom's case.)

Captbigbeard

09-30-2005, 05:11 PM

Only Harry Osborn has died, and he's not the Green Goblin I'm talking about.

If you want to count the "deaths" of Norman Osborn, you should also count the hundreds of "deaths" of the Joker. If an enemy "dying" means that they can't be the arch-nemesis, than how can Joker be Batman's? I mean, you said he is, didn't you?

The fact is, the Green Goblin has done more horrible things to Peter Parker than Venom can ever dream of. He's been around way longer as well.

Venom is certainly interesting when he's not being a "lethal protector", and he surely makes for a cool visual, but he's not nearly on the same level as the Green Goblin. Only the hardest of hardcore Venom fans will think that he's anything more than a B-level Spidey villain.

I have to agree with you on a few things. Yes Norman has hurt spider-man countless times, and in ways no villian has, but he just dosen't have that threat feeling most villians do. Toe to Toe he can't COMPARE to spider-man. He gets his ass handed to him almost 98% of the time in a fight. He's only dangerous when he's stealing peter's loved ones and sticking them infront of trains and stuff! Venom is always a deadly threat that wafflestomps spidy. When they fight spider-man even when he comes out on top is always badly beatin and lots of times near death.

Venom a B-rated villian???? WHAT??? I'm no huge Venom fan. The Lethal protector stuff SUCKED. He is hardly a B-rated villian. To say that is to be a venom hater. What you need is a guy in the middle. Like I said HUNDREDS of times he can be one of the best villians out there and he can SUCK horribly. Read his good stuff and you'll see what I mean. If u want a list of good venom outings just ask. I would love to change your mind.

I know what your think, lex Luther can't compare physically to superman either. This ain't true, I can rember lots of times Superman was brought to his kness by lex! I can't think of that many times when spider-man was nearly killed by Green Goblin, mentally crushed but not killed. An Archnemis needs to inspire fear from his enemy, and face it, Green Goblin only inspires hate.

Alan2099

09-30-2005, 05:11 PM

At the very BEST, venom pulls the number 3 spot, after Green Goblin and Dr. Octopus.

Grant

09-30-2005, 05:12 PM

I'm not a a Venom fan but I liked the last two movies and I think Topher Graceis a good actor. The fact he doesn't fit the comic version of the character makes it a tad more interesting for me at least since I never took to Eddie Brock as a character in the comics. Willing to give it a shot. Though the two villans thing makes me nervous. I'm kind of hoping for more Sandman.

I wonder if they are going try to do a Buffy/Faith type relationship for Spider-man and Venom.

Captbigbeard

09-30-2005, 05:13 PM

^Elaborating on that (Ignoring my spelling) he's more so like CatWoman, or other such characters as she, IE they're your enemy one moment, your ally the next. (Well, a simigood guy, in Venom's case.)

Yeah Lethal Protector Venom is lame, he has been becoming more of his bad self latley though. That crappy phase of protect the innocence is bye bye. I can only accept Venom teaming up with spidy to fight Carnage, NO OTHER TIMES! When carnage comes around it's pretty much a team up or die situation.

Captbigbeard

09-30-2005, 05:17 PM

At the very BEST, venom pulls the number 3 spot, after Green Goblin and Dr. Octopus.

Perhaps... I guess in the end this is futile. There are just to many people with divided vies on venom. I guess we'll just have to wait till the movie to see if Venom truly does deserve higher.

Tadhg

09-30-2005, 05:20 PM

You're wrong because Venom is not Spider-Man's arch-enemy. That title goes to Norman Osborn. Period. If we're comparing to Batman, Venom is more closely related to Two-Face. The former ally (Dent/Symbiote) twisted into an enemy.

I'd say Venom is more like Bane then Two-face. A gimmick that has somehow managed to outlive its sell-by date.

foxfire

09-30-2005, 05:27 PM

Seriously, this is the kind of stuff that pisses me off about message boards... if you have an opinion fine. But seriously, if you know anything about Spider-Man's 40+ years of history, then you would know that Norman Osborn is his arch-enemy. Simple as that. "No matter what you say Venom is Spidey's arch-nemesis"? Right.... I'm taking a wild guess here and assuming you didnt start reading Spider-Man comics until the 1990s or 2000s? Then I can kind of understand you views. But please, Venom is second (or third) behind the Green Goblin.

And I support having Venom in Spidey 3.

Dark Soul # 7

09-30-2005, 05:34 PM

Perhaps... I guess in the end this is futile. There are just to many people with divided vies on venom. I guess we'll just have to wait till the movie to see if Venom truly does deserve higher.
No movie can change Venom´s spot as nr.3 on the list.
And Green Goblin can so compete with Spider-man in a one on one fight. They´re pretty much equally strong, GG´s glider gives him the ability to match Spider-man in the air and his arsenal is way more dangerous.
And Peter is so afraid of Norman. He´s scared shit that Norman will one day actually get ahold of MJ or Aunt May or anybody else that Peter loves, and he´s even more afraid of what Norman would do if that happend. Know why he´s afraid of Norman doing this? It´s because Norman killed his girlfriend right infront of him and had a blast doing it. Really, there´s nothing that would stop him from doing it again if he wanted to. Peter can´t do squat against Norman when you think about it. He won´t kill him but Norman could kill anybody Peter care about. Put him in jail? He´ll get out sooner or later and then it starts all over again. Norman knows how Peter works, what makes him tick. That is what makes Green Goblin Spider-man´s most dangerous foe.

foxfire

09-30-2005, 05:40 PM

And Green Goblin can so compete with Spider-man in a one on one fight.

Yeah you're right. Normal MU Goblin is more than a physical match for Spidey. And if you read Ultimate, there's no question there...

Bearpod91

09-30-2005, 05:42 PM

Also Grace will make a GREAT venom.

Wha?!?! He's not even close to the character. He looks like he should play a skinny boring classmate, while you want him to be a buffed up villian? And even if these are your first posts or something, it seems you just want to get banned.

Grant

09-30-2005, 05:52 PM

I'd say Venom is more like Bane then Two-face. A gimmick that has somehow managed to outlive its sell-by date.

He doesn't have that awesome Mexican wrestler costume though.

Captbigbeard

09-30-2005, 06:11 PM

Wha?!?! He's not even close to the character. He looks like he should play a skinny boring classmate, while you want him to be a buffed up villian? And even if these are your first posts or something, it seems you just want to get banned.

Wait I haven't flammed, I've presented my ideas with good points, and you think I should get banned... hmmmm. Oh ya and Grace is VERY close to the ultimate spider-man Eddie, and that worked very well. So maybe thats were they got the idea. You need to take a chill pill pal.

Ok I won't disagree with those who see the green goblin as the better foe, I personally still think venom is the better of the two, but I see your points and respect what you gotta say. Keep in mind Venom is not a push over, and you have presented no points that give any reason behind why you like him, besides you think his tounge is corny, like green goblins pink tights arn't.

Charagon

09-30-2005, 08:59 PM

I have to agree with you on a few things. Yes Norman has hurt spider-man countless times, and in ways no villian has, but he just dosen't have that threat feeling most villians do. Toe to Toe he can't COMPARE to spider-man. He gets his ass handed to him almost 98% of the time in a fight. He's only dangerous when he's stealing peter's loved ones and sticking them infront of trains and stuff! Venom is always a deadly threat that wafflestomps spidy. When they fight spider-man even when he comes out on top is always badly beatin and lots of times near death.

You mean like Joker and Batman?

And what's with the Lethal Protector hate? That's the basis for Venom's character. He wants to kill Spider-Man and ONLY Spider-Man. From the very beginning he's gone out of his way to keep innocent bystandards out of their conflict.

creep

09-30-2005, 10:10 PM

Venom, no matter what you say HE is Spider-Man's archnemisis. He is to Spider-Man as Joker is to Batman. There is a major problem with him though. When he's done right, damn he can make a spider-man story epic, but when he's done wrong DAMN HE'S HORRIBLE! (See the newest Venom series!)

I never really thought of Spider-man as a having a specifiic arch-nemisis (well, at least not until someone, who's hopefully not working in comics anymore, had the crap idea to bring back the green goblin and make him personally responsibly for every bad thing to happen to Peter, ever.) and even if there is one, i don't think i'd want it to be Venom. I don't hate Venom, but I don't think he's as interesting as some of Spider-Man's other rogues. Nor does he strike the chord as those more classic villians. He's not that verstitle as far as story possiblities go. His whole thing is he wants to kill Peter and maybe make him suffer a bit first. But guys like Doc Ock actually seem to have a life outside Spider-Man, at least until our meddling webslinger wrecks whatever they've got going this week, be it bad science, robbing banks or trying to marry the wrong widow. But with Venom its the same thing over and over, he shows up postures threateningly, murders a few innocent bystandards, gets defeated by Spider-Man, is sent back to the crazy house, escapes a few months later, and the cycle repeats. Admititly, he did seem pretty scary the first time he showed up, but that wore off by his third or forth apperance and he hasn't felt like anything other than a gimmick in years.

My main problem with bringing Venom into the movies is that it will most likely result in a drastic change in the tone of the series. Yeah, a lot of people are looking forward to seeing Venom in a movie, but once he's there then what? You can't follow up Venom with Electro or someone like that, people just won't care as much.

A few of you are saying he's dumb and a carbon copy of spider-man. To you I say If Venom was smarter spider-man wouldn't stand a chance. Venom knows how he moves, how he thinks, can avoid his spider sense, is stronger, and equally fast! Only thing peter has going for him is brains. Who the hell keeps saying Venom is too much like spider-man! I know someone on these boards is! The two are similar in powers albeit venom is stronger, but that just helps illustrate the point the two are so mentally different. Venom is a killer and a brute who would eat your brains. Spider-Man is an intelligent good peace lovin hero who wouldn't eat your brains! Completely different! Not to mention as of late Venom’s powers have been somewhat altered so they are different from spidy’s and will continue to do so after the Ultimate spider-man game where the two were nearly incomparable.

So has Venom ever actually eaten anyone's brain's in a comic book, or does he just like saying that?

I thought Venom being like Spider-Man was the whole point of the character. He's a sort of nasty twisted bizarro Spider-Man gone wrong. Since most of us like Spider-man and there's something atractive about evil doubles. It makes for an interesting visual, which i'm sure will sell a lot toys, too bad the character doesn't measure up.

The big thing about Eddie Brock is you don't just feel bad for him, you pity him, and Grace can pull off the whole, I lost everything, act pretty well if you ask me!

So the guy did a shody bit of reporting and lost everything when he was called out on it. So rather than take responsiblity for his own failures and just admit to himself what a big loser he is, he chooses to completely abondon all concept of reality and instead blame the most convient target available. Its pitiful alright, but more in a way i'd say inspires disgust than sympathy. At least guys like Sandman and the Vulture don't go around pretending they're something they aren't.

To those who don't believe me read Spectacular Spider-Man Vol. 1: The Hunger, this makes up for venom’s crappy short series and makes him a char you can understand. This proves that Venom IS one of spider-man's greatest foes once again.

Couldn't quite make it past the artwork. What i could make out from the story wasn't that compelling either, but i'll with hold judgement on that side since i didn't read that far. Besides this how many good comics has Venom ever been in, beyond the early Michelline era? Not just readable, but actually good, name a few?

Bottom line, he has a LOT of potential. When done right there are few villians who can top him. Raimi has proven to us he knows what he's doing, and I trust he'll show us all why Venom is the most popular Villian.

meh, we'll see.

Charagon

10-01-2005, 12:02 AM

Dark Soul # 7

10-01-2005, 01:52 AM

onizuka

10-01-2005, 03:50 AM

well i think Venom is cool, and he's probably almost my favorite Spidey villain. unfortunately for most his career he's been written in a totally different way than i would have liked to see them go with him. i think i'm more attracted to his concept and his origin more than anything he's actually done. and i think that he did have the potential to truly become Spider-Man's numero uno arch-enemy.

that said, Venom is and always will be nothing more than said wasted potential. so much potential that i still love the guy, but there is no way in heck he is even remotely up there in terms of Spidey nemesis'/nemisie/nemiseses/whatever. Norman, Harry, Doc Ock and Hobgoblin have all put Spidey through more. Harry was still kicken Pete's ass from beyond the grave, how's that for an arch-enemy.

what hurts Venom most is that every writer has a different idea of how he should be written, and until they nail a good version of the guy and stick with it, he'll always be the underachiever he is today.

Captbigbeard

10-01-2005, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Captbigbeard
Bottom line, he has a LOT of potential. When done right there are few villians who can top him. Raimi has proven to us he knows what he's doing, and I trust he'll show us all why Venom is the most popular Villian.

Whoa. When did he do that.

And you really need a reality check. The only time Venom was the most popular of Spidey's villians was when both Harry and Norman were dead. He hasn't reached any level of significant popularity in almost a decade.

LOL, hasn't reached that popularity in almost a decade are you kidding??? He still is THE MOST popular villian in any series, and NO I am not just saying that.
Raimi said tons and tons of fans DEMAND venom is in the third one. Venom has such a fan base that he forced himself into the third movie

Marvel Nemisis, venom was not at first going to be in it, but the develpers finally caved and put him in, due to demand and perhaps the fact Ultimate spider-man (were u can play as venom) was coming out soon.

Ultimate Spider-Man the Game. Developers said fans were demanding Venom to be put into the game. He has THAT much of a fan base following that they were actually convinced to put him into the game. And you say he's not popular.

For the LAST TIME, READ THE HUNGER! It explains why Venom hates spidy so much and NO it's not because of the whole sin eater episode, although thats part of it. It makes you feel BAD for eddie.

creep

10-01-2005, 08:53 AM

LOL, hasn't reached that popularity in almost a decade are you kidding??? He still is THE MOST popular villian in any series, and NO I am not just saying that.
Raimi said tons and tons of fans DEMAND venom is in the third one. Venom has such a fan base that he forced himself into the third movie

Too bad, popular has never automatically equaled good or interesting. Anyway, i doubt he's more popular than Doctor Doom, the Joker, Lex Luthor, Green Goblin or a least i doubt he resonates with people as much as those characters, he doesn't have as much depth as those guys or even the vast majority of Spider-Man's rogues gallery. People like him because he's cool looking, that's pretty much it.

Marvel Nemisis, venom was not at first going to be in it, but the develpers finally caved and put him in, due to demand and perhaps the fact Ultimate spider-man (were u can play as venom) was coming out soon.

Ultimate Spider-Man the Game. Developers said fans were demanding Venom to be put into the game. He has THAT much of a fan base following that they were actually convinced to put him into the game. And you say he's not popular.

Fans need to learn to shut up, and learn of little Venom goes a long way. He's a character that can only be used sparsely, then he begins to suck hard. see: pretty much every comic he's ever been in.

And Venom is showing up all over the place because the suits want him there, period. He has a very marketable image, one thats sure to sell lots of toys. That the developer's have been hesitant to use, him shows that they at least realize the character requires a certain amount of restraint to work.

For the LAST TIME, READ THE HUNGER! It explains why Venom hates spidy so much and NO it's not because of the whole sin eater episode, although thats part of it. It makes you feel BAD for eddie.

Couldn't you just paraphrase it for us. There's no way i'm spending money on it. For me the artwork in that book's sort of the equivelent of nails against a chalk board for the eyes.

Tadhg

10-01-2005, 09:03 AM

He still is THE MOST popular villian in any series, and NO I am not just saying that.

Actually, you are just saying that as there is no way you could come close to proving that. Most popular in any series? Even if you restrict yourself to Marvel comics, there's Doom, Green Goblin, and Magneto. Not to mention characters like Deadpool who were popular enough to transition from villain to leading character.

Captbigbeard

10-01-2005, 09:15 AM

Actually, you are just saying that as there is no way you could come close to proving that. Most popular in any series? Even if you restrict yourself to Marvel comics, there's Doom, Green Goblin, and Magneto. Not to mention characters like Deadpool who were popular enough to transition from villain to leading character.

But have you ever heard of fans convincing makers of a spidy game to play as green goblin?? Never heard of doom having a huge fanbase, but magneto I will agree with you. If Venom has any two rivals for most liked villian it would be Joker and Magneto, perhaps they are liked better, but with the exception of those two NO other villian comes close. I provided three very recent times when Venom's fanbase was actually large enough to force him into the picture, can you do the same with anyother villian besides perhaps magneto?

Captbigbeard

10-01-2005, 09:36 AM

Couldn't you just paraphrase it for us. There's no way i'm spending money on it. For me the artwork in that book's sort of the equivelent of nails against a chalk board for the eyes.

Wow most people love the art. Oh well. You want it paraphrased OK! Warning if you have any interest in getting the book spoilers ahead! This takes place right before the Venom Vs Carnage series, the new one not any of the old ones. Once again it is called The Hunger

People, yes innocent people, are being found near death or dead, drained of adrenaline. Spider-Man along with a detective are puzzled. It doesn’t take spidy to long to realize it's his old friend Venom, or part of him at least. Turns out the Alien suite is going on a rampage. Spidy gets in a few fights, coming close to even being consumed by the suit! Shortly after he escapes we get a touching moment between him and Eddie. Spidy trying to figure out what the hell is going on! Turns out the suite needs adrenaline to survive. Turns out Eddie has cancer, and due to his cancer he was an adrenaline powerhouse. He provided the suite with more then enough food source, and the suite fought of the cancer, for a time. Eddie admitted he always hated Spider-man for the Sin-eater phase, but the reason he truly hated spidy so much was because he knew spidy was the only unlimited source of adrenaline (His spider-sense causes increased adrenaline). Eddie knew one day he would be drained of adrenaline and the suite would once again start it's quest to find a new host, spidy. Spider-Man would be his death. However the brock we see now is a defeated man who just wants to die and doesn’t even hate spidy any more.

Of course being the hero spidy won't let that happen, with eddie on his back, Spidy races to the hospital in hopes of saving him before the cancer overwhelms him. It is a futile quest. Eddie's body pretty much gives out before the reach the hospital. The suite was following the whole time. After a short conversation. Spidy finds out the suite is weak and can only bind one more time. Long Story short Spidy forces to suite to bind with eddie by literally chucking the now dead eddie into the gooey mass. He saves eddie, but now the suite is horribly pissed and eddie is equally angry having just wanted to die.

The story really makes you feel bad for Eddie, but makes you hate the conniving and controlling suite which is much more evil then anyone could have guessed.

loc_zsu

10-01-2005, 10:18 AM

Yeah Lethal Protector Venom is lame, he has been becoming more of his bad self latley though. That crappy phase of protect the innocence is bye bye. I can only accept Venom teaming up with spidy to fight Carnage, NO OTHER TIMES! When carnage comes around it's pretty much a team up or die situation.
Now thats what i like to hear. Rock on man.

jam1

10-01-2005, 10:28 AM

Venom, no matter what you say HE is Spider-Man's archnemisis. He is to Spider-Man as Joker is to Batman.

Bwahahahahahahaa.

:D

Edman

10-01-2005, 10:40 AM

I feel Venom should be in Spider-man 3 but I still read this thread.

Am I banned?

creep

10-01-2005, 12:59 PM

But have you ever heard of fans convincing makers of a spidy game to play as green goblin?? Never heard of doom having a huge fanbase, but magneto I will agree with you. If Venom has any two rivals for most liked villian it would be Joker and Magneto, perhaps they are liked better, but with the exception of those two NO other villian comes close. I provided three very recent times when Venom's fanbase was actually large enough to force him into the picture, can you do the same with anyother villian besides perhaps magneto?

If you really think these guys are the three most popular villians, you really need to get out more.

Fans of villians like Doctor Doom, Magneto and Lex Luthor have never had to organize campaigns to get the character out there, they’re there already. Even when they don’t show up for a year or two at a time their fans can easily go back and find any number of good stories featuring those characters. Their tied to their arch-foes from the start, as opposed to Venom who requires a certain amount of build up to work. They’re let outside regularly, the reason for this is compared to Venom, with those other guys there’s a lot more area to explore as far as making them interesting and relevant goes, compared to Venom who’s a lot harder to write stories for. They relate to and differ from the heroes in important and fundamental ways but with Venom, when you come down to it he’s not so much an arch-nemesis to Spider-Man, as he is a glorified stalker.

Wow most people love the art.

Not really, from what i've heard there's more of an even split, some really like it, others can't stand it.

Oh well. You want it paraphrased OK! Warning if you have any interest in getting the book spoilers ahead! This takes place right before the Venom Vs Carnage series, the new one not any of the old ones. Once again it is called The Hunger

People, yes innocent people, are being found near death or dead, drained of adrenaline. Spider-Man along with a detective are puzzled. It doesn’t take spidy to long to realize it's his old friend Venom, or part of him at least. Turns out the Alien suite is going on a rampage. Spidy gets in a few fights, coming close to even being consumed by the suit! Shortly after he escapes we get a touching moment between him and Eddie. Spidy trying to figure out what the hell is going on! Turns out the suite needs adrenaline to survive. Turns out Eddie has cancer, and due to his cancer he was an adrenaline powerhouse. He provided the suite with more then enough food source, and the suite fought of the cancer, for a time. Eddie admitted he always hated Spider-man for the Sin-eater phase, but the reason he truly hated spidy so much was because he knew spidy was the only unlimited source of adrenaline (His spider-sense causes increased adrenaline). Eddie knew one day he would be drained of adrenaline and the suite would once again start it's quest to find a new host, spidy. Spider-Man would be his death. However the brock we see now is a defeated man who just wants to die and doesn’t even hate spidy any more.

Of course being the hero spidy won't let that happen, with eddie on his back, Spidy races to the hospital in hopes of saving him before the cancer overwhelms him. It is a futile quest. Eddie's body pretty much gives out before the reach the hospital. The suite was following the whole time. After a short conversation. Spidy finds out the suite is weak and can only bind one more time. Long Story short Spidy forces to suite to bind with eddie by literally chucking the now dead eddie into the gooey mass. He saves eddie, but now the suite is horribly pissed and eddie is equally angry having just wanted to die.

The story really makes you feel bad for Eddie, but makes you hate the conniving and controlling suite which is much more evil then anyone could have guessed.

That doesn't sound bad as far as Venom stories go, but it does make Spider-Man out to be kind of a prick. I know the characters all about the value of life and all that but there’s a difference between pulling someone out of the way of oncoming traffic and denying a person a natural death, particularly when saving them means turning them, against their will, into something murderous and not quite human. I’m pretty sure there’s not a doctor alive who could defend such an action as ethical. Spider-Man values life yes, but to have him do that, just sounds like bad characterization, it’s a bit of a simplistic approach to the issue for Peter to think all life worth is saving, under any circumstance.

If its about, forcing the symbiote back on Eddie Brock, being the only way to stop its stop its rampage, that’s crap. Peter has always found a way to do things, without compromising his morals, in fact that’s pretty much the entire history of the character. He’s always found some other way.

SilverWing

10-01-2005, 01:36 PM

captbigbeard im on your side, I love to have Venom in the movie.

Bishop_Proudstar

10-01-2005, 02:50 PM

Why I think that it won't be Venom:

1) Spiderman's identity with the costume must be explored for more than 30 minutes of the film He can't just wear it one day, go bad for a "day" and toss it...I don't think they want to play around with a living "alien" costume..

Unless, somebody on earth creates a "black shapshifting costume" for Spiderman, I don't see it..

Techincally, Doc Ock is the scientist to do so, but he's gone from the films..

2) Children will love Spiderman in the black costume....too much..

3) Harry and Sandman would be over-shadowed..

I think that when filming starts its GG II (without The Goblin Ranger Costume), The Chameleon, Sandman.... and Kraven or The Hobgoblin..

4 villians.

I can see The Hobgoblin, and Chameleon having a relationship akin to the one HB had with The Rose. Chameleon could be a scientist turned super-crimelord..

Nightcrawler

10-01-2005, 03:17 PM

Captain Big Beard, have you read the origin of Venom? Have you read a 616 Spidey story in the past 10 years?

Dark Soul # 7

10-01-2005, 05:36 PM

I think that when filming starts its GG II (without The Goblin Ranger Costume), The Chameleon, Sandman.... and Kraven or The Hobgoblin..

4 villians.There will NOT be 4 villains in the movie. Top two, three if you count Harry without the suit as a villain.

Elevation

10-01-2005, 06:53 PM

Wow Ive heard good arguments from both sides.... The Character venom is awesome there is almost no argiment there.

Rami is making a huge mistake here though the whole lets have two to three villians thing is never going to work. Have any one of you seen what happened to the Batman movies. The Venom and Sandman cannot be uised correctly without taking anything away from the central story we've had going on for the first two movies now.

Venom and Sandman are going to be nothing but gimmicks compared to how they are going to make the hobgoblin look because lets face it its Harrys story.

Rami is only putting these two villians in to smash what the critics were saying about his story being too soft more of a love story than an action packed adventure. Rami wants to compete with Batman Begins and he thinks the only way to do this is to add more bad guys and more action for the wallcrawler.

Tadhg

10-01-2005, 07:03 PM

The Character venom is awesome there is almost no argiment there.

Why wouldn't there be argument there, "Venom is awesome" is completely subjective. I find Venom to be gimmicky and a blemish on the Spider-man universe. The Alien-costume story wasn't very good and everything spawned from it has been worse. Venom is one of the poster-children for "90's cool" and stands for everything I hate about comics. He's not an engaging or interesting character, he's just a one-note villain that's been played too many times.

Artemis1

10-01-2005, 08:13 PM

Toe to Toe he can't COMPARE to spider-man. He gets his ass handed to him almost 98% of the time in a fight.

That's total bull s***. I have read comics where GG rip Spiderman apart. I remember the time when Norman jumped off his glider and beat the crap out of Spiderman. Man was he pissed.

Captbigbeard

10-01-2005, 08:14 PM

That doesn't sound bad as far as Venom stories go, but it does make Spider-Man out to be kind of a prick. I know the characters all about the value of life and all that but there’s a difference between pulling someone out of the way of oncoming traffic and denying a person a natural death, particularly when saving them means turning them, against their will, into something murderous and not quite human. I’m pretty sure there’s not a doctor alive who could defend such an action as ethical. Spider-Man values life yes, but to have him do that, just sounds like bad characterization, it’s a bit of a simplistic approach to the issue for Peter to think all life worth is saving, under any circumstance.

If its about, forcing the symbiote back on Eddie Brock, being the only way to stop its stop its rampage, that’s crap. Peter has always found a way to do things, without compromising his morals, in fact that’s pretty much the entire history of the character. He’s always found some other way.

Well I simplified it. It was way more complex, spidy dosen't come off as a prick at all. In fact the story ends with a beat up spidy wondering if he made a big mistake.

Charagon

10-01-2005, 08:17 PM

Again, you're wrong. And the end of the arc I was wondering what exactly Peter was thinking when he purposly sentenced Eddie to life with the symbiote.

Captbigbeard

10-01-2005, 08:20 PM

That's total bull s***. I have read comics where GG rip Spiderman apart. I remember the time when Norman jumped off his glider and beat the crap out of Spiderman. Man was he pissed.

I have two, BUT most of the time spidy can take him down a whole lot easier then some other villians, such as the lizard, venom, ect. I have a bunch of comics were GG gets the crude beatin out of him without providing a challenge. GG is NOT nearly as physically imposing as other villians plain and simple. He gets things done by doing sneaky bastard things behind Spidy's back.

Maybe I haven't given GG his credit though I see your points. There all good the more I think about it the more I think spidy really dosen't have a villian that truly stands out as being an archnemisis. I will not give of the fact that venom is the most popular Villian though! It's just fact! On marvel vs Nemisis site he was voted most popular char out of everyone, and on Gamespot.com more people wanted to play as him then spidy!

Again, you're wrong. And the end of the arc I was wondering what exactly Peter was thinking when he purposly sentenced Eddie to life with the symbiote.

What How am I wrong??? And you wanted to know what spidy was thinming??? Are you blind, he says everythought that goes threw his head! He was wonderin if he did the right thing? Saved eddie, but cursed the world with Venom. I have the comic in front of me right now. Eddie was afraid to die at the end, feeling he had no spirit. Spidy saved him.

Tadhg

10-01-2005, 08:26 PM

On marvel vs Nemisis site he was voted most popular char out of everyone, and on Gamespot.com more people wanted to play as him then spidy!

I'd say that those two sites are not going to give you a representative sample of the population. Luthor and Joker and Magneto and Green Goblin and Doom are more popular just for the simple fact that they are more well known. Luthor and Joker are pop-icons known by everyone.

Captbigbeard

10-01-2005, 09:12 PM

I'd say that those two sites are not going to give you a representative sample of the population. Luthor and Joker and Magneto and Green Goblin and Doom are more popular just for the simple fact that they are more well known. Luthor and Joker are pop-icons known by everyone.

Joker yes, I said earlier Joker was prob the better known the villian. Luthor... i dunno, I doubt if he can compare at all. You have a big poster of Venom and Luthor on your wall more people would know who Venom is. Lex is cool but just can't compete in popularity. GG and Doom are not as well liked as Venom plain and simple. Sure some people like GG more then Venom, but very few if any see him as the best villian ever.

Also those two sites just prove Venom is hella popular, just having a little somethin somethin to show I ain't just pullin stuff outta my ass like some people. A large group of people picked venom as their fav char out of classics like spidy, magneto, and wolvie. Thats gotta count for somethin! Magneto, I dunno plain and simple how he compares. He is hella popular and perhaps my personall fav villian, but I still think venom is more well known and more popular. I have given sites and quotes that show how goddamned popular venom is can you produce the same for any of the villians you find greater?

Luthor A pop-icon? Joker YES, Doc Ock, YES, Venom, YES. To be a Pop Icon you gotta be known by your average fella on the street? Like I said you show um a pick of Joker Doc Ock, or Venom chances are at least they will prob be recongizible. Luthor NO WAY!

creep

10-01-2005, 09:23 PM

What How am I wrong??? And you wanted to know what spidy was thinming??? Are you blind, he says everythought that goes threw his head! He was wonderin if he did the right thing? Saved eddie, but cursed the world with Venom. I have the comic in front of me right now. Eddie was afraid to die at the end, feeling he had no spirit. Spidy saved him.

Maybe i'd feel different if i actually read the comic, but i doubt it. It doesn't sound to me like Eddie needed to be saved, at least not like that. Everybody has to die sometime, its a a perfectly natural thing. Often, as with Eddie, its a blessing, his time had come, but based off the way you described Spider-Man let his emotions get the best of him and he went on to do something completely abhorant to save him. Rather than just letting go, giving Edward the chance to die a human being, Spider-Man instead choose to prolong his life by forcing Eddie to live as something unnatural. I know Spider-Man thinks he needs to save everybody's life but there's a certain line there that shouldn't be crossed.

Tadhg

10-01-2005, 09:28 PM

have a big poster of Venom and Luthor on your wall more people would know who Venom is.

What? That's just silly. Lex Luthor is known by people who don't read comics, Venom isn't. How would he be?

Also those two sites just prove Venom is hella popular, just having a little somethin somethin to show I ain't just pullin stuff outta my ass like some people. A large group of people picked venom as their fav char out of classics like spidy, magneto, and wolvie. Thats gotta count for somethin!

And like I said, two game sites, one specifically devoted to a comic-book video game are not going to give you representative samples of the population. The voting is skewed.

Luthor A pop-icon? Joker YES, Doc Ock, YES, Venom, YES. To be a Pop Icon you gotta be known by your average fella on the street? Like I said you show um a pick of Joker Doc Ock, or Venom chances are at least they will prob be recongizible. Luthor NO WAY!

How can you say Luthor would be less recognizeable to the average person? That's the most ridiculous claim in this thread. Luthor has been in multiple TV series, cartoons, and movies. He's intrinsically linked to Superman in the minds of the General public. Venom's shown up what? A half-dozen times in a cartoon and in a few video games?

creep

10-01-2005, 09:50 PM

Joker yes, I said earlier Joker was prob the better known the villian. Luthor... i dunno, I doubt if he can compare at all. You have a big poster of Venom and Luthor on your wall more people would know who Venom is. Lex is cool but just can't compete in popularity. GG and Doom are not as well liked as Venom plain and simple. Sure some people like GG more then Venom, but very few if any see him as the best villian ever.

Also those two sites just prove Venom is hella popular, just having a little somethin somethin to show I ain't just pullin stuff outta my ass like some people. A large group of people picked venom as their fav char out of classics like spidy, magneto, and wolvie. Thats gotta count for somethin! Magneto, I dunno plain and simple how he compares. He is hella popular and perhaps my personall fav villian, but I still think venom is more well known and more popular. I have given sites and quotes that show how goddamned popular venom is can you produce the same for any of the villians you find greater?

Luthor A pop-icon? Joker YES, Doc Ock, YES, Venom, YES. To be a Pop Icon you gotta be known by your average fella on the street? Like I said you show um a pick of Joker Doc Ock, or Venom chances are at least they will prob be recongizible. Luthor NO WAY!

Way more people know who Doctor Doom and Lex Luthor are than who care anything about Venom, and I'd say they're far more popular, in the enduring sense at least, than Venom will ever be. Not only that but character wise they're far more complex and interesting. There's a large fandom that exist outside of X-Men/Batman/Spider-Man you know, and just because you don't pay attention to it doesn't make it less relevent.

I don't really know what your trying to prove with your whole "Venom is popular" arguement, anyway. No meaningful connection has ever been made between popularity and not sucking.
Here's a list of popular things -

Boy Bands
Romantic Comedies
Celebirty Gossip
Fascist Dictators
Reality Shows
Porn
Mullets(at one time anyway)
Pro Wrestling
The CBR Rumbles Board

Dark Soul # 7

10-02-2005, 01:41 AM

Maybe I haven't given GG his credit though I see your points. There all good the more I think about it the more I think spidy really dosen't have a villian that truly stands out as being an archnemisis.Where have you been this entire thread? He does have a villain that stands out from all the others! That villain´s name is Green Goblin!

damngary

10-02-2005, 02:51 AM

im confused here, is this board on Spidey's enemies' popularity or whose his greatest villain?
Im lost right now

Harold of the Rocks

10-02-2005, 09:08 AM

when Captbigbeard asks me to read something, I am running the other way full-speed.

Venom is not Spidey's #1 nemesis. Not even close.
Green Goblin is.

'Nuff said!

Captbigbeard

10-02-2005, 10:46 AM

No way is Lex Luthor better known then venom, and no way in hell is doom! Venom has been in countless videogames and comics and is just 10 times more reconginzible then a tanned bald guy. Think of all those thousands of people who have played marvel vs capcom alone, not to mention the fact Venom just came out in two videogames within the past month.

Keep in mind I am not saying Venom is better then Luthor he is just more well known by far. He had that whole crazy faze in the 90's and had shitloads of comics that starred HIM! Not that they were good, but I didn't see luthor having the same success.

As Far as GG goes, Yes I am starting to rethink Venom being a better villian then him, and I have already stated that! however he is not as well liked as Venom, as in NO ONE thinks as green goblin as the coolest char in the marvel universe! They like him and think he's a GREAT villian, but they arn't demanding to play as him in say a game like marvel nemisis. Where as fans are demanding to play as Venom! The Polls above show you that some people do see Venom as the coolest char in the marvel universe the same can't be said for GG! In other words there are very few fans who like GG above all others, but Venom does have those fans!

Tadhg

10-02-2005, 11:07 AM

Think of all those thousands of people who have played marvel vs capcom alone, not to mention the fact Venom just came out in two videogames within the past month.

Think of the MILLIONS of people who have seen the Superman movies, not to mention the fact that the character is a leading character in a popular prime-time drama currently airing on broadcast TV. More people have watched Smallville than have read all the venom comics combined. And Luthor is intrinsically linked to the Superman mythos, the same is not true about Venom. A lot of people know who Spider-man is without knowing who Venom is, but almost no one knows Superman without knowing Luthor.

Keep in mind I am not saying Venom is better then Luthor he is just more well known by far. He had that whole crazy faze in the 90's and had shitloads of comics that starred HIM! Not that they were good, but I didn't see luthor having the same success.

You do realize that the portion of the populace that reads comics is VERY VERY small right? Even when they were selling really, really well in the 90s you're still looking at less than 1% of the population, and now you are looking at .1% of the population, if that. And the only people who know Venom are the people who read comics and/or play comic-related videogames. My parents don't know who Venom is, my neighbors don't know who Venom is, but they all know Luthor because he's part of pop-culture, Venom is just part of comic-nerdom culture.

I can't believe that anyone honestly believes Venom, a character who has only been featured in videogames and comics for the last few years is more well-known than a character that has had mass-media exposure for DECADES. To even suggest it is ridiculous and being willfully ignorant of life outside of nerdom.

Captbigbeard

10-02-2005, 11:43 AM

I can't believe that anyone honestly believes Venom, a character who has only been featured in videogames and comics for the last few years is more well-known than a character that has had mass-media exposure for DECADES. To even suggest it is ridiculous and being willfully ignorant of life outside of nerdom.

Damn, I never thought of smallville! Thats a good point. Venom has technically been around since 1984. Thats hardly a few years. Not nearly as old as lex but still thats 20 yeas. I still say more people know of venom though. You just hear so much of him so frequently that it's hardly a question. Freedom Forces skins, sure dosen't count for MUCH of the population, but does count for people who know comics. You hear a counstent demand for Venom skins, not luthor skins. You constently hear veom vs this and venom vs that over forums. Hell I just saw a bunch of Venom T-shirts at hot topic. Venom by popularity alone worked himself into 2 new games. Besides Smallville when was the last time we really SAW Luthor in a big pop culture hit? It's been a LONG time buddy, besides justice league, and that show appeals to little kids who will rember a giant black brain eating alien over a bald genious anyway. In the 90's venom was a huge hit. Selling tons of vid games, toys, comics, and in one of the most popular TV series. Now today he seems to have made a comeback or is starting to.

I will admit perhaps I didn't realise how damn popular lex was. I knew he was popular but perhaps more so then I thought. It sounds to me like your doing the same thing to venom as I did to lex.

Nightcrawler

10-02-2005, 11:56 AM

Captbigbeard

10-02-2005, 12:08 PM

Captbigbeard, people outside of comics like Venom for the looks. They think its just a better looking Spider-Man (which its not). Sorry to disappoint you.

Also, when you say Gree Goblin isn't Spidey's archnemesis, you are mistaken. Norman makes an even more formidable foe than Venom because he ISN'T a physical match for Spidey, he uses subterfuge to destroy Peter's life, in ways Venom never could.

How is Venom making a comeback? When have we seen him in the 616 universe in the past 10 years?

The last time we saw him in the 616 universe... uhh try Janurary, and his grandkid just had his own small series that JUST finished.

Well I'll just forget you asked that dumb question. As far as making a comeback? well he was JUST in two games, it looks like he will be in spidy 3, and word is that if Ultimate spider-man is a success and I guess it was cause it' sellin like crazy, then their could be a Ultimate Venom mini series (could be wrong no diehard proof from marvel but there is talk and would you really be all that surpirsed if he did get yet another series?).

Tadhg

10-02-2005, 12:10 PM

Damn, I never thought of smallville! Thats a good point. Venom has technically been around since 1984.

1988 was the first appearance of Venom But he didn't become a "major" character until the 90s, and again, that was ONLY in the comics. He didn't show up in other media until 94 when he was in the Maximum Carnage video game and then 96 when he was on the Spider-man cartoon.

I still say more people know of venom though.

You're still wrong.

but does count for people who know comics.

Did you miss my point? PEOPLE WHO READ COMICS ARE AN INSIGNIFCANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.

You hear a counstent demand for Venom skins, not luthor skins. You constently hear veom vs this and venom vs that over forums. Hell I just saw a bunch of Venom T-shirts at hot topic.

Again. You are looking at things that are not REPRESENTATIVE SAMPLES of the population. It's not sound logic. It's like my going to the Vertigo board, asking how many people love King Mob, and then when getting a huge majority saying how much they love him, assuming that King Mob is the most popular and well-known character ever. When in reality, most people don't have a clue who he is. Sentry is an oft-discussed character on these boards, should I assume he's hugely popular and well-known as well?

Besides Smallville when was the last time we really SAW Luthor in a big pop culture hit? It's been a LONG time buddy, besides justice league, and that show appeals to little kids who will rember a giant black brain eating alien over a bald genious anyway.

Well around the time that Venom was a "huge hit" in "one of the most popular TV series" there was a little show called "Lois and Clark." It got decent ratings and Lex Luthor was in it quite regularly. Then there were the Superman movies, ever heard of those? I think they might have been popular or something.

In the 90's venom was a huge hit. Selling tons of vid games, toys, comics, and in one of the most popular TV series. Now today he seems to have made a comeback or is starting to.

Which TV series is that? Please tell me you're not going to say the 1994 Spider-man cartoon. Because that's just dumb. You're not comparing a half dozen appearances on a saturday morning cartoon to multiple appearances on TWO prime-time television shows, are you? Because, one, Saturday Morning cartoons do not have the viewership that Prime-time has and two, Venom wasn't in that cartoon a whole lot. Morbius showed up almost as often, should I assume he's hugely well-known now as well?

Lex has also had Cartoon appearances, in Justice League and before that, Superman. He's appeared way more often than Venom has in cartoons.

And the number of Venom comics sold doesn't equal the number of Smallville viewers.

It sounds to me like your doing the same thing to venom as I did to lex.

No. I realize how popular Venom is, and I realize that only a small segment of the population knows who he is. Video gamers make up a small portion of the population. Comic readers make up an even smaller portion of the population. Your average person is likely not going to know who Venom is, if the person is over 30, they're really not likely to know who Venom is. Luthor is known by lots of people because he's A. Been in multiple shows and movies and B. Is, as I have said multiple times, intrinsically linked to the Superman mythos in a way Venom is not linked to Spider-man. Lex Luthor has had way more media exposure than Venom, for a much longer time. To suggest that Venom is more well-known is just silly.

Nightcrawler

10-02-2005, 12:22 PM

The last time we saw him in the 616 universe... uhh try Janurary, and his grandkid just had his own small series that JUST finished.

Well I'll just forget you asked that dumb question. As far as making a comeback? well he was JUST in two games, it looks like he will be in spidy 3, and word is that if Ultimate spider-man is a success and I guess it was cause it' sellin like crazy, then their could be a Ultimate Venom mini series (could be wrong no diehard proof from marvel but there is talk and would you really be all that surpirsed if he did get yet another series?).

I don't think so. January, as in, 10 months ago? Are you talking about his appearence in MK Spider-Man? Not 616. Marvel Knights. His grandkid? Toxin? I thought we were talking about Venom here, not abother symbiote. Reconsider my dumb question.

His appearence in Ult Spider-Man is the only recent Venom that wasn't crap, and that was a few years ago. And in the Ultimate Universe, so its not even the Venom we're discussing.

So what if he was in 2 games? Its just because he looks cool to people outside of comics. His pathetic little fanbase has to go whining to Marvel to get him in, while characters like Spidey, Wolverine, Storm, Iron Man, Daredevil, Elektra, and Human Torch are added in without their fans crying to Marvel.

Captbigbeard

10-02-2005, 12:42 PM

I don't think so. January, as in, 10 months ago? Are you talking about his appearence in MK Spider-Man? Not 616. Marvel Knights. His grandkid? That piece of crap Toxin? I thought we were talking about Venom here, not abother symbiote. Reconsider my dumb question.

His appearence in Ult Spider-Man is the only recent Venom that wasn't crap, and that was a few years ago. And in the Ultimate Universe, so its not even the Venom we're discussing.

So what if he was in 2 games? Its just because he looks cool to people outside of comics. His pathetic little fanbase has to go whining to Marvel to get him in, while characters like Spidey, Wolverine, Storm, Iron Man, Daredevil, Elektra, and Human Torch are added in without their fans crying to Marvel.

I always thought it was 616, oh well It's a main spidy series that effects the rest of the spider-man stories from that point on, good enough! As far as Marvel Chars go, you make it sound like I think Venom is more popular then spidy or wolvie or daredevil! No way, If they weren't in the game I would do a double take while if venom wasn't i wouldn't be surpirsed. I would NEVER compare his popularity to the big named heroes.

oh ya by the way his "pathetic" fanbase was enough to get him into a game Capt America, the punisher, the hulk, and many more big marvel names didn't get into! Hmmmm makes you think don't it?

Crimson

10-02-2005, 12:43 PM

Mideon

10-02-2005, 12:43 PM

Mk Is 616.

Nightcrawler

10-02-2005, 12:44 PM

I always thought it was 616, oh well It's a main spidy series that effects the rest of the spider-man stories from that point on, good enough! As far as Marvel Chars go, you make it sound like I think Venom is more popular then spidy or wolvie or daredevil! No way, If they weren't in the game I would do a double take while if venom wasn't i wouldn't be surpirsed. I would NEVER compare his popularity to the big named heroes.

Okay, cool, I mistakenly thought you were rasing him to that level of icon.

Nightcrawler

10-02-2005, 12:45 PM

Marvel Knights is 616... before that though would be Venom/Carnage mini, before that his last series and also Jenkins 1st arc on Spectacular.

My bad. What time frame is it compared to Amazing?

Mideon

10-02-2005, 01:03 PM

I don't think it really matters what timeframe the first MK run was in compared to amazing, since they really don't reference each other as far as I know.

Piggy21

10-02-2005, 01:08 PM

Venom Vs Carnage was SICKIZZO! I love caranage :)! Marvel Knights Venom story was pretty good to. Venom still has to make up for lethal protector and that crappy vs wolverine series, but he's doin it slowly. ;)

Crimson

10-02-2005, 01:16 PM

My bad. What time frame is it compared to Amazing?

Dunno... but to be honest, its hard to place alot of titles right now.

The last arc happened after he joined the Avengers and moved into the Tower but that doesn't clear things up much.

They'll all be at about the same time for "The Other" crossover.

Dark Soul # 7

10-02-2005, 01:38 PM

I´m probably wrong on a few parts here but I think it goes something like this.

Spectacular Spider-man#1-13
MK:SM#1-12
Sins Past
Spider-man gets the organic webbing
Sins Remembered
New Avengers#1-6
Spider-man: Breakout mini-series
Skin Deep
Amazing Spider-man#519-524
MK:SM#13-18
New Avengers#7-10

And now we´re here, oh and Spider-man/Human Torch is sometime after ASM#524. Now remember this is just my assumption.

Captbigbeard

10-02-2005, 02:37 PM

My bad. What time frame is it compared to Amazing?
I always thought they went hand in hand. I'm not really sure though.

Nefarius

10-02-2005, 02:47 PM

Well,Venom is very popular but please he isn't the most deadly and dangerous villain of Spidey.I'm not a Venom-hater and the title of Spidey's arch-enemy belongs to Green Goblin.Norman is far more dangerous.He kills Gwen and Ben Railly,he drove his son to madness and he kidnaps peter's daughter.Norman plays mind games with Peter and as long Goblin is alive Peter will always worry about his friends and relatives.Venom he is more like a predator.He hunts Spidey like a beast who hunts his pray.Also Venom has this "lethal protector" crap and "we don't kill innocents".Sure Venom is worthy opponent but Green Goblin.Doc Ock and the original Hobgoblin are far more dangerous.

(note:I'm the only one here who likes Mac Gargan as Venom.I think Gargan will be more cunning than Eddy)

Captbigbeard

10-02-2005, 02:50 PM

No. I realize how popular Venom is, and I realize that only a small segment of the population knows who he is. Video gamers make up a small portion of the population. Comic readers make up an even smaller portion of the population. Your average person is likely not going to know who Venom is, if the person is over 30, they're really not likely to know who Venom is. Luthor is known by lots of people because he's A. Been in multiple shows and movies and B. Is, as I have said multiple times, intrinsically linked to the Superman mythos in a way Venom is not linked to Spider-man. Lex Luthor has had way more media exposure than Venom, for a much longer time. To suggest that Venom is more well-known is just silly.

Jeez you sound a bit upset over this. I would spit out my points agian but it would be an endless cycle. I will offer you a cyber hug, and an agreement to disagree. Personally, and I don't lead an ignorant life like you so kindly suggested, I still think Luthor is out shined by Venom. If smallville wasn't around I would have no doubt in my mind WHAT SO EVER as to who was more popular. Still I guess you and I can't really provide anything concrete in an argument like this so in all honesty I don't see my views changing. All I know is a hear about Venom all over the place, and thats more then I can say for lex.

Dark Soul # 7

10-02-2005, 02:50 PM

(note:I'm the only one here who likes Mac Gargan as Venom.I think Gargan will be more cunning than Eddy)I like him too. Gargan with the symbiote has alot of potential for being a really scary foe.

Captbigbeard

10-02-2005, 02:52 PM

I like him too. Gargan with the symbiote has alot of potential for being a really scary foe.

I see a good future if it is done right. I doubt however eddie is dead, and so who knows what to except.

Joe-Dono

10-02-2005, 03:46 PM

If smallville wasn't around I would have no doubt in my mind WHAT SO EVER as to who was more popular.

I could say the same for the new video games, I have read all of this thread and i must agree that GG is far more dangerous than Venom, out of all the spiderman villens I like the storys with Doc. Ock, Green and Hob Goblin.

I hope Marvel copy DC in printing all the "Classic" storys from the 60's in a 500 page book, then you could see how great these guys really are.

Did a Google Fight and here are the results (click below)

Venom Sucks VS. Doctor Octopus Sucks (http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Venom+sucks&word2=Doctor+Octopus+sucks)

Venom Sucks Vs. Green Goblin Sucks (http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Venom+sucks&word2=green+goblin+sucks)

Venom Sucks Vs. HobGoblin Sucks (http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Venom+sucks&word2=hobgoblin+sucks)

Tadhg

10-02-2005, 03:54 PM

Jeez you sound a bit upset over this. I would spit out my points agian but it would be an endless cycle. I will offer you a cyber hug, and an agreement to disagree. Personally, and I don't lead an ignorant life like you so kindly suggested, I still think Luthor is out shined by Venom. If smallville wasn't around I would have no doubt in my mind WHAT SO EVER as to who was more popular. Still I guess you and I can't really provide anything concrete in an argument like this so in all honesty I don't see my views changing. All I know is a hear about Venom all over the place, and thats more then I can say for lex.

I'm not so much upset, as exasperated. Your thoughts that Venom is more well-known are just wrong. Lex Luthor is known by average people, the ones that don't read comics, Venom isn't. It's as simple as that.

Piggy21

10-02-2005, 04:17 PM

Captbigbeard

10-02-2005, 04:22 PM

I'm not so much upset, as exasperated. Your thoughts that Venom is more well-known are just wrong. Lex Luthor is known by average people, the ones that don't read comics, Venom isn't. It's as simple as that.

I dunno. I still think Venom is more well known, BUT like I said before lets leave it at that niether of us can read millions of minds, and I guess the world will never truly know. We both feel the excat opposit, and I don't think either of us is a moron thats pullin shit outta our asses.

Nightcrawler

10-02-2005, 04:27 PM

Don't get me wrong, I look forward to Venom in Spider-Man 3, if they can get a good origin for him.

creep

10-02-2005, 05:05 PM

I dunno. I still think dogs can't look up, but like i said lets just leave it at that, neither of us really know what dogs are truely capable of, i mean its not like either actually have a dog we could actually somehow tempt to gaze up, perhaps by dangling a tasty treat directly over his head, thus proving the other person wrong, so i guess the world will know if dogs can look up or not, i mean its not like one of us is completely and hopelessly wrong and just making crap up.

Captbigbeard

10-02-2005, 05:34 PM

creep

10-02-2005, 05:51 PM

I tested that before. I had a twinky, and my dog was looking at it, then I lifted it above his head, BUT HE DIDN'T LOOK UP! SHOCKING! There for dogs cannot look up!

Well you have to take a variety of factors into consideration before you can register this is as actual proof, otherwise it isn't science. Was he wearing one those satallite dish things around his head, thus hendering his movement? Did you have sausages tied around your waist for some reason, distracting his attention? Do dogs even really like twinkies? When dogs get really old, they often tend to avoid unnecessary movements. Maybe he couldn't look up due to an injury you gave him with all that kicking you do to him? Of course it could be he has a handicap your not aware of or possibly he's retarded by dog standards. Obviously, we'll have to perform the same test on multiple dogs before any kind of conclusion can be drawn.

Captbigbeard

10-02-2005, 06:07 PM

Well you have to take a variety of factors into consideration before you can register this is as actual proof, otherwise it isn't science. Was he wearing one those satallite dish things around his head, thus hendering his movement? Did you have sausages tied around your waist for some reason, distracting his attention? Do dogs even really like twinkies? When dogs get really old, they often tend to avoid unnecessary movements. Maybe he couldn't look up due to an injury you gave him with all that kicking you do to him? Of course it could be he has a handicap your not aware of or possibly he's retarded by dog standards. Obviously, we'll have to perform the same test on multiple dogs before any kind of conclusion can be drawn.

The sausages around his neck... hmmm that could have been the problem. Perhaps if I try to preform the experment without them it would work better. I need many dogs to find an answer to this question, so I will need anyone who reads this to send their dog to me, just attach them to your E-mail

E-mail- Dogslookupquestion@yahoo.com

creep

10-02-2005, 06:31 PM

The sausages around his neck... hmmm that could have been the problem. Perhaps if I try to preform the experment without them it would work better. I need many dogs to find an answer to this question, so I will need anyone who reads this to send their dog to me, just attach them to your E-mail

E-mail- Dogslookupquestion@yahoo.com

no way buddy! I've seen your avatar and know what you've really got in mind. Ain't no way i'm gonna let nobody eat my dog!

palaeomerus

10-02-2005, 06:47 PM

I thought the Kangaroo was Spidey's archnemesis?

Captbigbeard

10-02-2005, 08:33 PM

I thought the Kangaroo was Spidey's archnemesis?
No the Walrus.

BizarroBeachHead

10-02-2005, 09:12 PM

Venom was is 5, at the most, 5 episodes of the 60 odd number of 1994 Spider-man cartoons. How does that even compare to being a main character in Smallsville or Lois and Clark?

creep

10-02-2005, 09:20 PM

Venom was is 5, at the most, 5 episodes of the 60 odd number of 1994 Spider-man cartoons. How does that even compare to being a main character in Smallsville or Lois and Clark?

It doesn't. But we've lost all interest in that conversation anyway.

Anyway, i went to ask jeeves, and asked him weather he thought Dogs could look up or not. The information on his listed sites were sparse but they all agreed, dogs can indeed look up.

So there you go, we can now conclusively say for certain, that jeeves is full of crap.

damngary

10-03-2005, 01:10 AM

well I guess i can voive my opinion, (though it really doesnt matter)
I personally think green goblin/Norman Osborn is one of the most misshandelled villains spidey has. I find alot of the stories contradict him over the years. Either his motives or his reasons for being himself are contradicting from one story arc to another. I mean look at the joker, he's insane and I dont think theres anything contradicting that. Green Goblin has a really screwed up backstory.
But to that matter so does venom, at least now anyway. Venom was a good character, up until he was the anti-hero hero thing he had going on. then he went bad again, and it been kinda screwy ever since. His backstory is even more screwed up now, but oh well. People know he's a scary villain, as with green goblin.
I am not going to agrue who is the better villain, that is up to whomever, I dont give a crap. I personally like venom more than Green Goblin. I get so screwed up as to seeing green goblin as the villain. I mean norman osborn I understand, he screws with pete's life, few villains do that, but then Norman goes extra Fing psycho and tries hurtin spider-man. As far as far as i know, for most of spidey's history GG was just an insane man in a costume on a glyder. until I read some trade that he was super strong all of sudden (I forget how).
Repeating once again, I like Norman Osborne as a villain, GG I am a little edgey on.
Popularity is a different matter. To comic fans, everybody knows both GG and Venom, its a duh topic. To non-comic fans its a different matter. My MOM knows who venom is, mainly by lookin at him, but not by name. She has little idea as to Green Goblin though. She never read a comic, but she's seen the movies. She even knows doc oc. Same story with my girlfreind.

..............
You know what? I could go on and try to finish the point. Make claims for all arguments. I could make a tiny book on this subject, psychological, popularity and many aspects. But this is a comic fan site so no side truly wins. Because in the end we 4all end up looking like A$$es or idiots.

LabRat

10-03-2005, 02:46 AM

For me, Venom is the anti-Spidey, kinda like Superman's Bizarro... but he's not the 'arch enemy'...

I'd consider Norman Osborn as Spider-Man's #1 arch enemy, based on what he's been able to do against Peter throughout their long history [death of Gwen, Norman's influence on Harry, Lifetheft (Peter's parents returning), the Clone Saga, Norman trying to influence Peter to take up his mantle (just before MJ returned), Sins Past, Millar's MK Spidey run, just to name a few]...

Jake V

10-03-2005, 03:40 AM

Is anyone here actually against Venom being in the movie? My whole thing was taking exception to the idea that Venom is Spider-Man's arch-enemy. I think he's a cool character, a good villain, and an awesome design... but arch-enemy he is not.

Now, including Venom in the movie worries me, because introducing any character requires an origin story, and Venom's takes time.
You have to
A) SOMEHOW get Spider-Man in the black costume...
B) Establish that Spidey's life is easier with the black costume...
C) Establish that Eddie Brock is a jerk with an axe to grind agains Spider-Man...
D) Establish that the black costume is really evil and is influencing Spider-Man...
E) Get the costume off Spider-Man...
F) Get the costume ON Eddie Brock...
G) Establish what Eddie can do as Venom, and make him a credible threat to Spider-Man AND Peter Parker...
H) Have the big show-down.

That is tough to pull off in one movie, and even tougher with the addition of the freaking Sandman who needs his own origin sequence.

I really hope that they come up with some clever way to pull it off, but that might require a complete overhaul of Venom's story, which is sure to annoy everyone who is a big Venom fan.

I don't really have a problem with Venom being the villain, per se, but it does sorta worry me.

Joe-Dono

10-03-2005, 05:40 AM

How about they have most of film 3 about Black Costume Spidy and then introduce venom right near the end, setting him up as the villen in 4.

you could show the costume starting to act on its own towards the end, and have it really start to take control of spiderman near or during the final fight with Sandman, get spiderman to do something terrible and then have him try and find away to get the suit off.

the final shot in the film could be the suit bonding with brock and then getting venom to turn round and face the camra just before the credits.

this is the only way i can see it working to e honist.

creep

10-03-2005, 08:53 AM

Couldn't they just skip past the Spider-Man black costume episode and give Venom a different origin? They could probably give the symbiote some kind of tangable bond to Peter in another way if they need to. What's going to make more sense to your average film goer, Peter Parker can't get a handle on his personal life, Peter's best friend hates Spider-Man and wants him dead, Spider-Man fighting guys like the Lizard or the Sandman, or Spider-Man versus his own freakin' costume. It played out okay in the comic, sort of. But in the context of a movie i just don't think its going look very good, nor do i think many people, unfamilar with that Spider-Man era, are going to want to see the movie as much, once they hear that's part of the premise.

And i'd rather Venom not be in the movie, not because i dislike the chacter, though i do think Spider-Man has far more interesting rogues, but because it still seems too soon to bring him in. I know they plan to keep these movies going forever, provided they keep making money, but once they bring out their most anticipated Villian, how they supposed to follow that up with in the next movie?

Drunken Harry Osborn

10-08-2005, 02:32 PM

Eh, ever since Norman came back from the grave like a douche and been acting like a poor man's angsty Lex Luthor he's had no credibility with me.

Norman: "I've been in Europe this whole time! In fact, when I got owned by my glider I just so happened to have plane tickets to Spain in my little purple shorts! Who's your archnemesis now?!"

Until they retcon Norman's ressurection right now he will always and forever suck harder than Venom ever has.

Speaking of Venom, he really is underrated by the more elitist of Spider-Man fans. I'd put the David Michelinine's ASM Venom issues over any garbage they've come up with for Neo-Norman anyday of the week.

As for a movie appearance by Venom, they should just film a Kill Bill-like two parter. The first one is the Symbiote's story and they can have Spidey fight someone like Rhino or Vulture in it, and the second movie is all Venom.

Nightcrawler

10-08-2005, 02:34 PM

Couldn't they just skip past the Spider-Man black costume episode and give Venom a different origin? They could probably give the symbiote some kind of tangable bond to Peter in another way if they need to. What's going to make more sense to your average film goer, Peter Parker can't get a handle on his personal life, Peter's best friend hates Spider-Man and wants him dead, Spider-Man fighting guys like the Lizard or the Sandman, or Spider-Man versus his own freakin' costume. It played out okay in the comic, sort of. But in the context of a movie i just don't think its going look very good, nor do i think many people, unfamilar with that Spider-Man era, are going to want to see the movie as much, once they hear that's part of the premise.

I agree, unless they can get a REALLY believable origin for the costume.

Alan2099

10-08-2005, 03:28 PM

creep

10-08-2005, 05:03 PM

You know, they might just be able to tie Venom's origin in with Sandman's. Think about it. Essentially they're both shapeshifting beings that alter their form. The difference is that while Sandman is obviously Sand, Venom is a bit gooier.

Maybe Sandman could be the initial expieriment, and later on when they see how that worked out, they could try to copy some of Spidey's DNA or blood or something into the procedure and end up creating Venom.

It always seemed kind of weird to me that the lab where Peter picked up his powers had a dozen other geneticly altered spiders just like the one that bit Peter, maybe that could end up playing a part in Venom's movie origin. Not that i don't think it would probably be a stupid idea, though.

Another reason i don't want to see Venom in it, so far both villians from the last two movies have had split personalities. I don't actually think most of Spider-Man's enemies, besides what we've seen so far, actually spend a lot of time muttering crazy conversations with their "other" self, and it would be nice to to take a break from that, for one of these films at least. And i certainly don't want to have to listen to Peter go through that if he ends up bonding with the alien costume.