BPRD: Black Flame #2 *Spoiler Warning*

[Neil Hill]

So, has anyone read the issue yet? I read it this afternoon and absolutely loved it! Roger coming into his own as a true bonafide kick ass and take names type is really thrilling me, and I'm not sure why exactly. Perhaps it's the length that this character has travelled that brings a twinkle to me eye. After all, I remember him when he was a wordless monster thrashing BPRD agents like rag dolls and leaving them for dead. When I first saw that character though, with the pipe on a chain hanging from between his legs, I just knew he was something truly special and unique.

I also love that Abe hasn't just picked up the pieces and returned to full agent status, but is instead having a difficult time returning to regular life again. He's been through quite a bit lately, so it's wise that the writers decided to keep that continuity thread going, rather than just throw Abe back into the mix.

Also, the look of paternal regard and satisfaction Daimo displays in seeing Roger step up as a leader was absolutely priceless. One of those throw away moments that's so subtle many may miss its significance, but still very nice to see none the less.

My only concern/question is regarding the Black Flame character itself. It seems to me that Pope is inside the suit somehow, yet it appears there's some kind of flaming skull in place of his all too human head. It will be interesting to see how that suit actually works once things are better explained in future issues.

Home run issue IMO! :D

[Erwin Heinek]

The splash panel revealing The Black Flame was awesome. And considering how lousy Zinco products seem to be I was surprised at how large a company they appear to be.

I'm probably as worried about Roger's new personality as Liz. The implication has been that the effect is temporary so what will happen to him when/if the Frog threat is neutralized?

This storyline is the best so far imo, the bar has been raised on each mini-series and surpassed by the next. Two issues in and so many questions yet to be answered. I love it.

[KWAK!]

is it just me, or does anyone else suspect that Daimo is working with Pope/Zinco/the frogmen.

The only reason I bring it up is in 'the Dead' #5, after Daimo's gun gets fried with electricity, he goes and tries to find another one, while he's looking through crates, Daimo finds this little midget creature in the class canister marked with what is presumably a 'Do Not Open' sticker. In this new issue, when we see Pope's office (Pg. 3 & 4), you can see that same creature in a few frames, however now he's in more of a domed display case.

This is the same creature we same accompanying "Crimson Lotus" in "The Dead" #4.

So I'm wondering if he found the little creature and then handed it over to Pope. Maybe the injuries he received from the frog men are influencing him somehow.

Also, is it just me, or is that Van Klempt's head in a jar on the shelf on page #3.

This is by far my fav BPRD mini-series to date...Roger is really coming into his own, the plot is awesome, and I'm really enjoying the conflicts amongst the team members.

[Tad]

That little creature was introduced in the scrapbook of WWII villains in The Dead storyline when we first saw the original Black Flame. I think the discovery says more about the research that used to happen at the BPRD facility than Daimo. It would be natural for Pope to have pictures of those villains since he's researching what abilities they had... or at least what the Black Flame had.

[KWAK!]

That little creature was introduced in the scrapbook of WWII villains in The Dead storyline when we first saw the original Black Flame. I think the discovery says more about the research that used to happen at the BPRD facility than Daimo. It would be natural for Pope to have pictures of those villains since he's researching what abilities they had... or at least what the Black Flame had.

but Pope didn't just have a picture of it in his office, he had the actual creature...

Daimo found it in the BPRD headquarters in Dead#5, so how did it make it's way into Pope's possession? That's why I think Daimo is up to something.

[JohnThompson]

The splash panel revealing The Black Flame was awesome. And considering how lousy Zinco products seem to be I was surprised at how large a company they appear to be.
I had always assumed that Zinco purposely supplied faulty equipment to the BPRD, rather than that being the standard quality of their products. Of course, if the Black Flame's suit spontaneously explodes, that will prove me wrong. :D

[Erwin Heinek]

I had always assumed that Zinco purposely supplied faulty equipment to the BPRD, rather than that being the standard quality of their products. Of course, if the Black Flame's suit spontaneously explodes, that will prove me wrong. :D

If it doesn't explode we'll know it wasn't made by Zinco. ;) Why the BPRD would continue using their products is a mystery.

[Erwin Heinek]

but Pope didn't just have a picture of it in his office, he had the actual creature...

Daimo found it in the BPRD headquarters in Dead#5, so how did it make it's way into Pope's possession? That's why I think Daimo is up to something.

Good catch on the creature. If they are the same one then Pope may well be the Vampire that turned Daimyo because I can't see Pope controlling a Vampire or a Vampire working for Pope.

Of course 2 or more of the same creature could be a story in itself. :evilsmile

[gary bolt]

Why the BPRD would continue using their products is a mystery.

Government cut-backs.

[Brisco]

Good catch with the creature, KWAK! Very interesting. I knew I'd seen that thing before, but I couldn't think of where. Hm... Of course, there Erwin's right; there could be more than one of these creatures left over from Nazi experiments. Or maybe it's just something Guy likes to draw. But I'll be keeping my eye on Daimio now...

Good catch on the creature. If they are the same one then Pope may well be the Vampire that turned Daimyo because I can't see Pope controlling a Vampire or a Vampire working for Pope.


What makes you think Daimio's a vampire? Did I miss something? Has this been discussed before? I think there's still a very interesting story to be told about Daimio, how he survived, and what exactly he is, and vampire's an interesting theory. But I haven't seen any evidence of it thusfar. Have I been blind?

Brisco

[JohnThompson]

What makes you think Daimio's a vampire? Did I miss something? Has this been discussed before? I think there's still a very interesting story to be told about Daimio, how he survived, and what exactly he is, and vampire's an interesting theory. But I haven't seen any evidence of it thusfar. Have I been blind?
I don't think you missed anything. Not much has been revealed about Daimio's "condition" yet. All we really know is that he was pronounced dead, and 3 days later he came back to "life"; and he has some gruesome scars across his face that never heal. He seems more of a zombie than a vampire.

Just the same, I don't completely trust him yet. I love the character, though! :D

[Neil Hill]

He's a pretty with it and together zombie if that's the case, John :) After all, I can't imagine a government agency hiring zombies to work one of their agencies. And no jokes about the people who work at the Dept. of Motor Vehicles people! :o

[JohnThompson]

He's a pretty with it and together zombie if that's the case, John :) After all, I can't imagine a government agency hiring zombies to work one of their agencies. And no jokes about the people who work at the Dept. of Motor Vehicles people! :o
Hello? I-R-S, dude!! Only after extensive "reprogramming", so they believe money = brains.

[Brisco]

He's a pretty with it and together zombie if that's the case, John :) After all, I can't imagine a government agency hiring zombies to work one of their agencies. And no jokes about the people who work at the Dept. of Motor Vehicles people! :o

If he's a zombie, I'm sure he's not the traditional sort of zombie we're used to. After all, how many times does Mignola go the "traditional" route with classic monsters? Whatever he is, I like the character too. A lot. And, like Stygian and others, I LOVE the storyline going on with Roger and him.

The Black Flame is definitely shaping up to be my favorite BPRD story yet, especially after The Dead, which I thought turned out to be highly disappointing. I like the Black Flame himself, too. It's the first time, in my opinion, that the BPRD (on its own) has come up against a worthy villain on the level of Hellboy's opponants like Rasputin and Von Klempt. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how this arc plays out, and glad it's a longer one!
Brisco

[Erwin Heinek]

I don't think you missed anything. Not much has been revealed about Daimio's "condition" yet. All we really know is that he was pronounced dead, and 3 days later he came back to "life"; and he has some gruesome scars across his face that never heal. He seems more of a zombie than a vampire.

Just the same, I don't completely trust him yet. I love the character, though! :D

Boy howdy, with all the Daimio love being shown (which I share) having him be a traitor would really hurt.

Now I don't have my issues handy and I don't recall if they said what kind of mission Daimio's team was on when they ran into trouble. Was it a Vampire? And if it was maybe D is more of a "Renfield" rather than a full-on Vampire.

Questions, questions. How I love them.

[gary bolt]

I just finished #2 and loved it. There is so much going on in this series!

[kid cthulhu]

Definitely. The experiments being done on the frog monsters is really interesting. That one in particular has me thinking he may end up on the side of good. Maybe a new agent? I think that would be kinda cool.

[DannyBoy7783]

Professor Broom would turn over in his grave if that happened. Lest we not forget how he died in Seed of Destruction.

[gary bolt]

I don't know about frogs as special agents. I just know that seeing them walking and talking with humans gives me the heebeejeebees.

[kid cthulhu]

Professor Broom would turn over in his grave if that happened. Lest we not forget how he died in Seed of Destruction.
Speaking of which, I keep thinking how cool it would be if we were treated to a scene where Hellboy visits the Professor's grave.

[morna]

yaay I can finally read this thread! Kool issue lots of fun and bits to pick up on Pope's secret office is stuffed with intrigue... I did notice the painting and recognised the infant monkey thing from the scrapbook page where the black flame is first glimpsed (how DID that thing get into Pope's posession?). A few interesting fragments... lots to see in there. I still wonder about Roger but he seems to be developing a new side to his personality. Poor sad preoccupied Abe. I'm off to give it a second read!


edit: ya and what the heck's Pope doing with von Klempt's head? and how does that thing keep surviving being blown up! questions questions

[BKole]

Wow.

Considering hes called Pope, he does little of the Religous things.

Frog men speaking english? Interesting. I wonder if this serves a purpose, or if it's one of those interesting side notes that Mignola likes to include every now and then. Love those. Very interesting.

Particularly, since Mignola exploded my love in Monsters again, I'm interested in those random bits and artifacts in Popes office.

Roger's character changes are rather striking when compared to his previous incarnations, i'm not sure how long this will last to be honest, i understand that the Dark Brooding Monster man, was Hellboys schtick, but, Roger was like a very angry, naked Patrick Stewart.

Abe needs a Hug. A big one.

Life sucking flowers? Burny burny.

I have to say theres not enough Johann appearences. (Also, as a minor note, sorry i haven't been around much, I'm having problems setting up internet access at my University house, appearently, NTL hates me.)

[Poe Ghostal]

I totally missed von Klempt's head. Interesting.

[E. Spears]

i still totally need to buy this issue.

or i'll just wait for the TPB to come out like I always do. yeah.

-ers

[Brisco]

I'm interested in those random bits and artifacts in Popes office.


Yeah, I'm with you. I want to know what each and every one of those things are! I thought that was Von Klempt's head at first, but wasn't he totally destroyed, head and all, in Conqueror Worm? And if it were him, wouldn't Pope have enough respect to keep him right side up? My guess is that the Nazis had a lot of heads in jars, and most of them weren't still alive.

Also, Liz should have known better than to accept a flower from so obviously evil an old woman! :)

Brisco

[Erwin Heinek]

Yeah, I'm with you. I want to know what each and every one of those things are! I thought that was Von Klempt's head at first, but wasn't he totally destroyed, head and all, in Conqueror Worm? And if it were him, wouldn't Pope have enough respect to keep him right side up? My guess is that the Nazis had a lot of heads in jars, and most of them weren't still alive.

Also, Liz should have known better than to accept a flower from so obviously evil an old woman! :)

Brisco

I would also like to know the story/ies behind how Zinco and Pope aquired all of the goodies in the trophy room. Is it stuff Zinco worked on over the years or things they "liberated." We really know nothing about Zinco do we?

[Poe Ghostal]

I thought that was Von Klempt's head at first, but wasn't he totally destroyed, head and all, in Conqueror Worm? And if it were him, wouldn't Pope have enough respect to keep him right side up? My guess is that the Nazis had a lot of heads in jars, and most of them weren't still alive.
IIIIIIIII don't know, looks an awful lot like von Klempt's head to me, especially in the second drawing. There even seems to be some scribbles on his forehead that could indicate a swastika.

[Tad]

Von Klempt doesn't necessarily deserve honor since he wasn't on the best terms with the Ragnarok group when the place exploded. But it seems like Pope's interests are more wide ranging than those of the typical rasputin follower.

[Anung Un Rama]

I would also like to know the story/ies behind how Zinco and Pope aquired all of the goodies in the trophy room. Is it stuff Zinco worked on over the years or things they "liberated." We really know nothing about Zinco do we?

Its just a theory that I got, but I believed this company was in league with the Nazis all along, since the 1930s. Perhaps that was the reason why there were many "accidents" and "sabotages" in America during the War.

[el seth]

Yeah, I picked up on the baby-monkey thing, but not the Von Klempt head thing, I'll have to race home and check that out. The baby-monkey thing is either: a) there's a Zinco mole in the B.P.R.D. or b) there's more than one of those horrible baby-monkey things out there. I'm not sure which is worse...

My only complaint about this one so far is that I was expecting The Black Flame to be some serious WW2 era badass with a black flaming head being a badass. Instead we (apparently) have some rich Nazi-fetishest with delusions of granduer, which I guess could still be interesting. One thing, though - Pope and his people better have very, very bad things happen to them by the end of this. You don't get to put a collar on horrible, unknowable Lovecraftian evil without, you know... bad things happening to you. It's just a bad idea.

[Tad]

\ Instead we (apparently) have some rich Nazi-fetishest with delusions of granduer, which I guess could still be interesting.\

Zinco is a tech company. Perhaps Pope is researching all the super science and occult technology that the Nazis were into. The Ragnorok Project symbol is pretty evident. When Roderick Zinco ventured into the frozen castle in WAKE THE DEVIL, he told his pilot that if he didn't return to tell Pope, nobody else but Pope, what happened.

[K'Nort]

Definitely. The experiments being done on the frog monsters is really interesting. That one in particular has me thinking he may end up on the side of good. Maybe a new agent? I think that would be kinda cool.

The "mouse" bit reminded me of We3. But so much creepier.

[el seth]

Zinco is a tech company. Perhaps Pope is researching all the super science and occult technology that the Nazis were into. The Ragnorok Project symbol is pretty evident. When Roderick Zinco ventured into the frozen castle in WAKE THE DEVIL, he told his pilot that if he didn't return to tell Pope, nobody else but Pope, what happened.

I agree. I'm not really sure how that contridicts what I said... ? It's just that the way his secret office is decked out and the way he dresses up like a super villian implies that he's getting some weird gratification out of the whole deal.

[Tad]

Just the Nazi part.

[Jan Bentzen]

So - I finally got # 2.
I haven´t read it yet - just looking at the pages. On page 3 (bottom) there is a panel with a hat. I wonder if that is a "tip of the hat" to the "Nevermen".

- Jan

[Poe Ghostal]

So - I finally got # 2.
I haven´t read it yet - just looking at the pages. On page 3 (bottom) there is a panel with a hat. I wonder if that is a "tip of the hat" to the "Nevermen".

- Jan
Aren't those the glasses and hat of one of the bad guys in the old BPRD photo album from "The Dead"? Dr. something-or-other?

[gary bolt]

Aren't those the glasses and hat of one of the bad guys in the old BPRD photo album from "The Dead"? Dr. something-or-other?

I just looked in The Dead #3 and the hat, glasses (eye covers?) and neck piece are all from a character called "The Steel Hawk" pictured on the same scrapbook page as the "Black Flame" and "Crimson Lotus" (who's holding the very creepy human faced monkey baby thing).

[Poe Ghostal]

Thanks for looking that up, SE.

I think the monkey-faced baby-thing may be derived originally from a Japanese folktale in Passport to the Supernatural. I'll look into it once I dig up my copy.

[Ken O]

I was thinking it was Von Klempt also.

And I love the page with Roger leading the charge against the frog monsters. Good stuff.

[Brisco]

I just looked in The Dead #3 and the hat, glasses (eye covers?) and neck piece are all from a character called "The Steel Hawk" pictured on the same scrapbook page as the "Black Flame" and "Crimson Lotus" (who's holding the very creepy human faced monkey baby thing).

I think you're right. I had thought that it was the hat and glasses of that psychic guy who was with Bruttenholm when they first found Hellboy, but I guess that wouldn't make a lot of sense.
Brisco