PDA

View Full Version : rate the Bat-books


CURSD BLADE
09-27-2005, 09:13 PM
So, its been two years since I dove back into the world of comics after a three year absence. It was Batman: Hush that pulled me back in. Unfortunately, I was a Marvel Zombie growing up in the 90's (I am 18 now). I fell in love with the character of Batman ever since and have bought over 50 TPBs and HCs since then, brushing up on my Bat-continuity. I had also been collecting every regular Batman title until I was better able to dicipher between a good Bat-story and a bad Bat-story.

That in mind, now I only buy Superman/Batman, Batman, All Star Batman & Robin, The Boy Wonder. I was just wondering what everyone would say the "state of the Bat-titles" would be. So, rate them and we will see which titles are good and bad.

Here is my ratings:

Batman
Writer: Judd Winick
Artist: Doug Mahnke
Rating (grading scale): A

Since this team debuted, the book has benefited greatly from having a regular creative team, giving it much needed stability. If ever a modern writer's style was suited for Batman, its Winick. He has turned Batman into a street-level crime comic with a superhero edge, and he is one of the few writers that truly get the character and how his mind works.

Mahnke's pencils are also greatly suited to the character and the writer's direction. Mahnke's dark and gritty depiction of Gotham and his sketchy yet stylized vision of The Batman himself is a very definitive version in todays market. His style also caters to the expansive action Winick throws in as well as the subtle character moments. Batman hasn't been this good since Lee and Loeb left two years ago.

Detective Comics
Writer: David Lapham
Artists: Ramon Bachs
Rating: n/a

I haven't followed this title since Lapham's second issue. I liked it but had to trim the pull list so I have no comment. Is it any good now?

Batman: Gotham Knights
Writer: A.J. Lieberman
Artist: Al Barrionuevo
Rating: n/a

I haven't followed this title since I was let down by the first few issues of Hush 2. Lackluster handling of the villian and poor writing and art turned me off so I have no comment. Is it good now?

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight
Writer: rotating
Artist: rotating
Rating: n/a

Haven't followed this one at all (except for some early trades) so no comment. Has it been good?

Superman/Batman
Writer: Jeph Loeb
Artist: Ed McGuinness, Pat Lee, Michael Turner, Carlos Pacheco, Ian Churchill
Rating: A-

If the grade were based solely on the writing, this would get an A+. Loeb truly understands the relationship between the two icons and his exploration of the characters by comparison and contrasting them makes for great character studies. Not only that, but Loeb writes some damn good superhero stories that all boast an epic feel. This is the equivelent of a summer popcorn movie.

McGuinness captures the widescreen epic feel that Loeb was striving for in the first and current arcs, and has proven the definitive artist for the series.

Turner's pencils contrast McGuinness' work greatly, and I feel that hindered the book slightly. Mike Turner is an artist with many limitations but Loeb wrote to his strenghts and, because of that, he turned in a great body of work. Expansive, otherwordly environments and attractive (though gratuitous and unrealistic) women were the order of the arc though Turner also delivered some wonderfully rendered fight scenes and a Batman that oozed intimidation and darkness. His depiction of The Dark Knight is a sight to behold.

Pacheco's romp through an 'elseworld-esque' DCU was as expansive, cramped, and action-packed as you would expect from an artist of his caliber. Loeb packed in a hugh crossover into a 5 issue arc so that Pacheco could show off his ability to throw numerous characters into chaotic battles and the whole thing came across as Perez level epic. Some of Pacheco's best work to date.

The fill-ins were sub-par though. While Loeb gave Pat Lee mechs to play with, his manga-esque art was very much a contrast to the rest of the artists and it broke to flow of the art and the writer's narrative greatly. His pencils sketchy and exagerated pencils were flat-out ugly when it came to the quieter moments of the issue.

Ian Churchill is an artist who is influenced greatly by a Image/Rob Liefeld style. His style would have been much more appropriate if it followed Turner's arc but it was sandwiched between Pacheco and McGuinness' and suffered by comparison because of it. His unrealistic and exaggerated pencils didn't fit the reflective and quiet tone of the issue he did and it showed greatly.

But currently, the title is back on track art wise with McGuinness. The current arc is a mixed bag. Its got an epic feel yet leans a little to much into the parody/humor side and doesn't focus much on the two leads. Also, it is plagued by lateness that really hurts the flow of the book.

All Star Batman & Robin, The Boy Wonder
Writer: Frank Miller
Artist: Jim Lee
Rating: A+

Though we are only two issues in, so far I feel that this title is one of the greatest out-of-continuity reimaginings of Batman ever. Miller's edgy, modern, noirish sensibilities just fit with the darkness of the character and here, he gives the well-loved icon a radical new makeover and it makes perfect sense given The Batman's origins and personality. Miller plays with everything that the mainstream public knows about Batman but distorts them to a disturbing and engaging degree.

Jim Lee's highly stylized, action-oriented, angular style is probably the most definitive version of the character since Neil Adams first started drawing Batman in the 60's. Lee's epic, action driven style is probably the only that could keep up with Miller's unrelenting scripts. These two mesh together amazingly.

Robin
Writer: Bill Willingham
Artist: Scott McDaniels
Rating: n/a

Haven't followed it in a year so no comment. Is it good?

Nightwing
Writer: Devin Grayson
Artist: Phil Hester & Cliff Chiang
Rating: n/a

Haven't followed it since Year One so no comment. Is it good?

Catwoman
Writer: Will Pfeifer
Artist: Pete Woods
Rating: n/a

I only read the initial issue of the new creative team. I thought it was decent but not compelling enough to keep buying (despite amazing art by Woods) so no comment.

Batgirl
Writer: Andersen Gabrych
Artist: Alejandro Garza & Pop Mahn
Rating: n/a

Haven't followed it since the crossover with Robin last year so no comment. Is it any good?

Birds of Prey
Writer: Gail Simone
Artist: Joe Bennett
Rating: n/a

Haven't followed it since Benes left the book. How is it now?

john72tex
10-02-2005, 03:40 PM
Here's how I rank them currently:
1: Gotham Knights- Best storyline and art
2. Batman- Close second, but inconsistant story.
3. Superman/Batman- Good but can not come out on a regular basis.
4. All-Star Batman and Robin- Great art, shaky storytelling.
5.Nightwing- Intriguing story, so-so art
6. Detective- The current storyline has gone on too long...
7. Robin- So-so story and art
8. Birds of Prey- Don't read.

The Wayner
10-02-2005, 04:38 PM
*sits back and waits for Shadow to rank Batgirl the best Bat book* ;)

The Shadow
10-02-2005, 07:39 PM
*sits back and waits for Shadow to rank Batgirl the best Bat book* ;)
ROTFLMAO :D :D

WELL IT'S TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My two favorites are Batgirl and Birds of Prey.

The plots and characterization of both books is spot on while the art (especially in Birds) is FANTASTIC and the stories are always fun!!! What more could you ask for??

Detective is alright but doesn't seem to have BATMAN in it... ever.

Gotham Knights is a waste of space... it could be good but the dragged out Hush from being a one trick pony (is it even Tommy anymore??? and more importantly... does anyone even care??)into some really long and lame story. The art is good though.

Nightwing has been enjoyable... if you enjoy long boring plots and horrible charachterization. Hester's art is solid enough though.

Batman... where to begin with this crap fest... I have said so much... yet it feels like so little.

He resurrects Jason Todd because he voted to save him in '88 and always felt his death was unjustified... his first arc was about a viscious Scarecrow monster (wow), he can't write Batman to save his life and I just hate the man's work. Pedro was great (if somewhat overrated) and I am just blown away at the fact the guy is on DC's biggest gun. The last issue was the type of filler issue I would expect between one creative team leaving and another coming onboard... not a filler issue by the current creative team. I've got a 22 year uninterupted run on Batman (and my earliest issue is #38!) and this is about as bad as its EVER been. Ever.

On the plus side Batman's sales have been dropping so maybe Winick will be gone soon... I can dream can't I???

All Star Batman is too new to have a complete picture on it... but so far I am lukewarmn about it. It seems more Punisher than Batman.

I don't read Legends, Catwoman or Robin.

Bloopinator
10-03-2005, 05:59 PM
Here's how I rank them currently:
1: Gotham Knights- Don't read
2. Batman- Don't read
3. Superman/Batman- Don't read
4. All-Star Batman and Robin- It rocks. Art rocks too
5.Nightwing- Lets just say I hate Devin Grayson
6. Detective- Don't read
7. Robin- Not the best thing ever but it's alright
8. Birds of Prey- Don't read
9.Batgirl- Just started reading so I don't know

DWEarhart
10-04-2005, 12:13 AM
ROTFLMAO :D :D

Batman... where to begin with this crap fest... I have said so much... yet it feels like so little.

He resurrects Jason Todd because he voted to save him in '88 and always felt his death was unjustified... his first arc was about a viscious Scarecrow monster (wow), he can't write Batman to save his life and I just hate the man's work. Pedro was great (if somewhat overrated) and I am just blown away at the fact the guy is on DC's biggest gun. The last issue was the type of filler issue I would expect between one creative team leaving and another coming onboard... not a filler issue by the current creative team. I've got a 22 year uninterupted run on Batman (and my earliest issue is #38!) and this is about as bad as its EVER been. Ever.



THANK YOU!!

I keep telling people Winnick bites. His Batman IS horrible. Andreyko will get his hands on the bat. I've read his Sam and Twitch, and Torso before that, and his Lost mini-series, which never ended, BTW, and eventually, it will be his turn.

As for right now, I'll take ALMOST anyone over Winnick. Every writer in Batman's books, lately, seems like a filler-specialist.

Gotham Central is still the strongest.

The Shadow
10-04-2005, 12:15 AM
THANK YOU!!

I keep telling people Winnick bites. His Batman IS horrible. As for right now, I'll take ALMOST anyone over Winnick. Every writer in Batman's books, lately, seems like a filler-specialist.
We are... of the same mind. :D

DWEarhart
10-04-2005, 12:34 AM
We are... of the same mind. :D

The truth hurts, my friend.
As long as Batman has crappy writers, I'm gonna hurt it back.

Alot.

CaptMagellan
10-04-2005, 09:36 AM
The writing on most of these titles is so poor, I've dropped them. To reiterate, with slight modifications, what Bloopinator said...

Here's how I rank them currently:
1: Gotham Knights- Don't read
2. Batman- Don't read
3. Superman/Batman- Don't read. Loeb ended up boring me.
4. All-Star Batman and Robin- I like Miller, I don't mind out of continuity stuff, but BatMarv isn't what I was hoping the All-Star line to be about.
5.Nightwing- Lets just say I think Devin Grayson and Frank Miller should write creator owned demented crime comics together.
6. Detective- Don't read
7. Robin- I only like Willingham when he's doing his creator owned stuff.
8. Birds of Prey- Don't read
9.Batgirl- Don't read

dazzler_slave
10-04-2005, 10:18 AM
Okay, here's my weigh in on the titles:

Batman: Though I don't hate Winnick as much as many others, I am not really impressed with his work on this title. I am really not pleased with the whole Jason Todd ressurrection thing. I am giving this title until after Infinite Crisis and if it doesn't improve, I'll drop it.

Detective Comics: Horrible! This Lapham storyline is the worst yet! I can't believe they let him go on for 12 issues! Where nothing happens! Honestly, I stopped reading this dreck months ago, but as of this month I stopped buying it too.

Gotham Knights: Initially I was intrigued by Hush and his identity. I had enjoyed the Loeb/Lee story and thought this new direction was interesting...back in 2003. Two years later, and the title is still about Hush and his mysterious identity. They completely killed any interest I had in the character by overexposing him. You know, it's bad enough that they overexposed the Joker in the past few years, but at least the Joker has a lot of history, and has earned the right to be overexposed. Hush was too new. Now he's just trash. I have also dropped this title.

Legends of the Dark Knight: Don't read

Robin: I flip flop on this one. I was interested in the return of Darla, but not so much on the General or whatever his name is. Since Willingham took over, the stories have not really wowed me, but they haven't offended me.

Nightwing: I don't love the undercover story, but I like it a helluva lot more than the whole "True Romance" Dick/Tarantula stuff. I am holding out for the new creative team to see what direction they will take Nightwing in.

Batgirl: I am loving this title! It used to be on the bottom of my pile, but now it has shot to the top! Ever since War Games, they have finally tried to make Batgirl a real character. Getting her out of Gotham was an excellent idea. She is now more her own person and not just a pale reflection of Bruce.

Birds of Prey: The best of the bunch. Gail Simone consistently brings us great stories, bang on characterization, tense moments and plenty of action. There are a couple elements lately that have gotten me a little worried, but I have faith in Gail to come through with flying colours.

Catwoman: Since Brubaker left, this title has really fallen. I really like the current art, but I am just having trouble getting behind the new story. I hope it picks up soon, because Selina is one of my favorites.

Gotham Central: What can I say, I love this title. It's always a nice break from my superheroes and it keeps me entertained with each issue.

All Star Batman & Robin: I am enjoying it. It is a nice change of pace from the wreck of the character in the main titles. I know he's being written very differently, but I can accept that since this is essentially an Elseworlds comic. Plus, I'm loving the art.

Superman/Batman: Vapid, pretty to look at, often weak. I am not liking the current story. I have enjoyed most of the stories, but there always seemed like something was missing from them. Something I can't quite put my finger on. They never felt like a completely satisfying read, but I don't know why. I think I will drop this when Loeb leaves.

DOVETAILS
10-04-2005, 10:58 AM
What is the status of superman/batamn.. after infinite crisis comes to an ending(how oxymoronical :eek: )?

Are't the main "pillars" not seeing eye to eye anymore(I actually hope this isn't fixed with "one year later")? I don't know how this book could go on. It must end when loeb leaves?

fuaak
10-04-2005, 03:39 PM
My snap judgments:

Batman
Boo-ring. Who gives a damn about either Jason or Red Hood?

Detective Comics
Nice and dark, the best non-spinoff Batman comic available right now. Readable.

Batman: Gotham Knights
Lieb uses a dozen-plus issues to tell an impossibly convoluted story about characters nobody cares about. Rubbish. Pretty pictures though.

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight
Seven issues about Mr. Freeze? No thanks.

Superman/Batman
I think "big, dumb fun" is absolutely the right idea for this magazine, but Loeb focuses too much on "dumb" and too little on "fun". This mag consists mostly out of Bats & Supes humiliating their fellow heroes and big name villains in fevered crack dream stories that are so mired in obscure continuity they take a PhD in Nerdology to comprehend. Rubbish.

All Star Batman & Robin, The Boy Wonder
Best worst ever.

Robin
Boo-ring.

Nightwing
Crap.

Catwoman
Boo-ring. Pretty pictures though.

Batgirl
Averages out at "very readable", but has been uneven in both writing and art. Possibly the best spinoff book.

Birds of Prey
Still readable, but lost a lot when Benes left. Bennett's Black Canary looks like some kind of a grotesque blow-up doll.

Gotham Central
Readable, but not my cup of tea.

Guts/Batman
10-04-2005, 04:49 PM
I completely second Fuaak's list.