Venom In Spiderman 3

[Artemis1]

What do you think of Venom being in Spiderman 3? I personally don't like it. Sure, I love Venom. He's awesome. But I always his originas stunk. A walking cure? An alien costume made from a machine? Not Spiderman material. Plus, Topher Grace is nothing like Brock or Venom. Bad idea's written all over it.

[Nightcrawler]

If the movies can pull off a reasonable origin for the costume (I didn't like the Ultimate version), then this could be a very good thing.

[Adem]

I wanted at least one more classic villain in a Spidey movie so I don't like the idea of Venom being the villain for the third.

[Grant]

I wanted at least one more classic villain in a Spidey movie so I don't like the idea of Venom being the villain for the third.

Uh Sandman is going to be in it also...

[Adem]

Uh Sandman is going to be in it also...

Ya, but I would have liked it better if the movie just had Sandman as the villain.

[Mideon]

All I wanted since the first movie was to see Venom. Sure the character started to suck in the comics, but that doesn't change how cool it'd look in a movie.

[Guts/Batman]

Better not suck (like the GG costume). I have wanted to see Venom since #1 as well.

[SilverWing]

I wanted at least one more classic villain in a Spidey movie so I don't like the idea of Venom being the villain for the third.

How is Venom not a classic villian?

What do you think of Venom being in Spiderman 3? I personally don't like it. Sure, I love Venom. He's awesome. But I always his originas stunk. A walking cure? An alien costume made from a machine? Not Spiderman material. Plus, Topher Grace is nothing like Brock or Venom. Bad idea's written all over it.

What do you mean a walking cure? What do you mean a costume made from a machine?

The idea of Venom in a Spider-Man movie is pure genius. He's probably the most popular villian in Marvel Universe. Many forums I've been to relating to Spider-Man 3 is buzzing with Venom being in the movie. They're basically ignoring Sandman because he isn't anything special. I doubt it'll be a 2 vs. 1 in the movie since I doubt Venom would team up with anyone. Since technology is advanced nowadays the way Venom would be presented would be marvelous. Topher Grace as Venom isn't like he'll be put in a Venom suit. They'll probably make Venom as they have made the Hulk in his movie. I do doubt Topher would look anything like Eddie Brock though. Simple Venom has to be in the damn movie. :evilangry

[chicainery]

I have no problem with Venom being in Spider-man 3, as long as it's well done.

One more thing...Welcome to CBR, SilverWing!

[Zeta]

I'm not a big fan of Venom more than any other villain, but I think he's a perfect choice for the third movie. The three most common superhero stories are the origin story, the one where the hero considers retiring, and the evil twin. Since the evil twin angle hasn't been done yet . . .

[SilverWing]

I have no problem with Venom being in Spider-man 3, as long as it's well done.

One more thing...Welcome to CBR, SilverWing!

Oh my gosh, this is the first time a MEMBER! not a admin welcomed me to a forum without me posting in a introduction thread... :)

[Captbigbeard]

Ya, but I would have liked it better if the movie just had Sandman as the villain.

Wait wait... Venom not a classic villian... uhhh he is Spidy's ARCHNEMISES! He's pretty damn classic, almost as classic as he is sexy. ALMOST.

Your telling me you would want a person with the power of sand over an evil brain eating alien suite?

"Oh no you found my one weakness... sand!"

[Zeta]

Then at the end of the movie, Spiderman can splash his foe with dye and stick him into collectable decorative bottles to sell him as overpriced gifts to tourists!

[Jomero]

I've been saying this for a long time. It's very, very simple for how to have Venom in the movie without him being an alien suit or DNA goo.

Let's think this through logically, shall we? How did Peter get super spider powers? He was bitten by a loose superspider. Now.... first off, that spider is never killed. Second off, how many other superspiders were there? That's right. 14. There are 14 more superspiders (plus the 15th we've never seen squished). All someone has to do is get bitten by a superspider and BAM! Instant spider-man again.

I think Venom would be much more interesting if he was nothing more than Eddie Brock being bit by a superspider and then shows the world what Spider-Man would be like if he had no sense of moral compass. An evil spider-man, if you will. That, to me, is intriguing.

No Hulk-like physique. No alien gene simmons tongue that can tie itself into a knot.

[Spider-Man]

^^^An interesting idea, but a little derivative.

I'd rather the films adopt the excellent story from the 90s animated series. John Jameson finds an alien substance on the moon. It's brought back to Earth, where Peter Parker runs afoul of it. Instant black costume. Eddie Brock later gets the costume and voila, Venom.

It's concise and it makes sense. And why the hell else did they introduce John Jameson instead of just some other guy for Mary Jane? To introduce Man-Wolf?

I think not.

Spidey

[Artemis1]

He's probably the most popular villian in Marvel Universe.

Tell that to my popularity tournament. The Green Goblin came out in first place, then Dock Ock, then Venom.

[Guts/Batman]

Tell that to my popularity tournament. The Green Goblin came out in first place, then Dock Ock, then Venom.

Norman came out on top or Harry or the psycho psychologist? ;)

On a more serious note, I always liked Venom more than Norman. But that recently has changed.

I completely disliked what they did to Norman in Spider-Man.

[Artemis1]

Norman came out on top or Harry or the psycho psychologist? ;)

Norman Osborn.

[SilverWing]

Tell that to my popularity tournament. The Green Goblin came out in first place, then Dock Ock, then Venom.

Popularity tournament?

[deadcheeze]

Now don't get me wrong. I dig Topher Grace but I don't see him as Venom. When you see venom he should be intimidating. Now donna as Venom, thats scary. Just kidding. I wish they would stick to one villian. Whenever you over do it, it gets into batmanville and that can't be good. the 3rd in superhero movies are always bad and thats the feeling I am getting from this, but we'll see.

[The Blue Devil]

Look, disregarding all that has been said before me, I will say this: Venom is an idiot. Venom IS an idiot, though. Eddie Brock is an idiot, and the symbiot aint all that bright neither. Oh sure, if it had built up, you know, drawn out over the movies, then yeah I'd say we should end with Venom, but he hasn't even been HINTED AT. Hell, we've never really seen Eddie Brock, now have we? I mean, other villains you can do good in one movie, but NOT Venom. Besides that, yet again, A NICK VILLAIN is smarter then Venom ever will be. A NICK Villain from DANNY PHANTOM. (Then again, I'm still trying to figure out how he even came to be on nick, seeing as he is so...DARK with a capital D and all...but the fact remains, Venom in the cartoon series and the comics, has never been that smart.

Elaberating on this (Excuse the spelling, if you will) Look, he's just...not good for a movie. AT ALL. The only reason he exists is because of a mistake made by the artists, who wanted to give Spider a new costume. And while he takes the spot light as being Spider Man's 'Ultimate Enemy', he's nothing compared to the Green Goblin, The LIzard(Whom I'd much rather show up in this film), or hell, the HOB GOBLIN for crying out loud. He dosen't deserve this, at all.

To compare him to other villains from other shows/comics would be suicide as well. Hell, I'll pick out a new super villain for a show called Danny Phantom. His name is Dan Phantom, and he's obviously inspired by Venom, due to his history. But you know what seperates them? Venom is an idiot, to the highest degree if you think about it. He's stronger then Spider Man, yes, but NOT BY MUCH. So what dose he do? Him and his GLARING WEAKNESS WHICH SPIDER MAN CAN TAKE ADVATAGE OF, dose he A) Reveal Spider Man to the world and have him hunted? B) dose he kill Spider Man in his sleep, at his house/apartment? Dose he C) openly try and kill him, even though he knows he has a weakness which Spider Man can take advantage of, or dose he D) fool around, and stalk Peter Parker, never doing anything major until it's too late? Guess what? The answer IS D!

Meanwhile, over in Danny Phantom, Dan Phantom is cunning enough to know that Danny would get in the way, so he makes sure Danny can't do anything, while making sure Danny dosen't die. If Danny dies, Dan dies. Then, when fightning Danny, what dose he do? Well, he can't out right kill him, because that would kill he himself, so he just runs out the clock, doing his job PERFECTLY. He was taken surprise by a new ablitie of Danny's, which is what lead to his defeat...but he had done what he wanted. Danny's time ran out, and if it wasn't for an outside force, he would have evenutally turned into Dan as well.

And considering that Dan Phantom is a Nick villain, and he out shines Venom...that's kind of saying something there.

[ninjapeps]

What do you mean a walking cure? What do you mean a costume made from a machine?
Ultimate Venom was originally created by Peter's and Eddie's dads to cure cancer but they died before they completed it. Eddie continued the project in college but it had some side effects.

616 Venom came from Secret War's Battleworld. Spidey's costume was pretty badly torn up and found a machine that he thought was the one everyone else used to make new costumes. inside it, was this ball of black goop, namely the symbiote.

[Guts/Batman]

Look, disregarding all that has been said before me, I will say this: Venom is an idiot. Venom IS an idiot, though. Eddie Brock is an idiot, and the symbiot aint all that bright neither. Oh sure, if it had built up, you know, drawn out over the movies, then yeah I'd say we should end with Venom, but he hasn't even been HINTED AT. Hell, we've never really seen Eddie Brock, now have we?


So he isn't a prep master. Spider-Man should have enemies that are stronger than him. Characters who can literally eat his brain while he is conscious.

And yes, Eddie Brock has not been mentioned yet.

[Jomero]

And yes, Eddie Brock has not been mentioned yet.

Not true. In the first movie:

"Why don't we have a decent photo of the guy?"
"We've been trying. Eddie's been on it for weeks."

Or something like that.

[The Blue Devil]

...Dose that even count? Seriously though, think about it, Conners has gotten more screen time then Eddie, and he was BARELY on the screen!

[Dark Soul # 7]

...Dose that even count? Seriously though, think about it, Conners has gotten more screen time then Eddie, and he was BARELY on the screen!
Does it matter if he has no screen time?! Dr.Octopuss wasn´t even mentioned in the first movie and he still showed up in the second.

[Captbigbeard]

...Dose that even count? Seriously though, think about it, Conners has gotten more screen time then Eddie, and he was BARELY on the screen!

tehehe. You do realise Venom IS one of THE most popular villians in ANY comic book, the only one who MAY be slightly more popular or well known is Joker. And none of the Danny Phantom stuff made any sense, sounds like your just busting with rage my friend. Relax it's a movie! By the way how do you see green goblen as a better villian? A guy in purple underwear or a brain eating alien... which is cooler??? hmmmm.

[Guts/Batman]

tehehe. You do realise Venom IS one of THE most popular villians in ANY comic book, the only one who MAY be slightly more popular or well known is Joker. And none of the Danny Phantom stuff made any sense, sounds like your just busting with rage my friend. Relax it's a movie! By the way how do you see green goblen as a better villian? A guy in purple underwear or a brain eating alien... which is cooler??? hmmmm.

I loved comic book Norman Osborne/Green Goblin. He was so evil...so insane...so vile...so smart...so obsessed. Awesome.

Comic Green Goblin, IMO, is very much better than Eddie Brock/Venom.

Venom I liked for his innocent, almost anti-heroish attitude. If they would have kept him that way, he would have been fine.

Also, Venom is also an iconic Spider-Man villain. Like Octopus. Them not putting Venom in a movie is like a Batman trilogy lacking the Joker.

EDIT: I hated movie GG/Norman Osborne.

[Guts/Batman]

Does it matter if he has no screen time?! Dr.Octopuss wasn´t even mentioned in the first movie and he still showed up in the second.

Agreeed. Though to work Venom in they will have to incorporate A LOT of back story which could water down the movie. Unless, they choose a different way of introducing the symbiote.

Damnit, where is Felecia Hardy!!!

[Dark Soul # 7]

Agreeed. Though to work Venom in they will have to incorporate A LOT of back story which could water down the movie. Unless, they choose a different way of introducing the symbiote.
I would think that´s their best bet if they want to have Venom in the movie. But it shouldn´t be too hard.
Damnit, where is Felecia Hardy!!!
Yeah! I want to see her played by Elisha Dushku.

[Guts/Batman]

Yeah! I want to see her played by Elisha Dushku.

They already skipped Gwen Stacy (though that is a good thing). They can't skip Felecia.

That would make me very sad. :(

[Jomero]

...Dose that even count? Seriously though, think about it, Conners has gotten more screen time then Eddie, and he was BARELY on the screen!


Ummm.... when someone says "Eddie Brock has not been ***MENTIONED*** yet" and I put out quotes showing that he has, then yes. Yes, I do believe that counts.

[Guts/Batman]

If you really wanna nitpick you could just say that Eddie has been mentioned in passing, but Venom certainly has not been mentioned. ;)

[Bearpod91]

I voted no on one reason. The actor!!! He would never be the right guy for eddie!!! (Topher Grace)

If it was another more bulked up actor then definitly.

[SilverWing]

Look, disregarding all that has been said before me, I will say this: Venom is an idiot. Venom IS an idiot, though. Eddie Brock is an idiot, and the symbiot aint all that bright neither. Oh sure, if it had built up, you know, drawn out over the movies, then yeah I'd say we should end with Venom, but he hasn't even been HINTED AT. Hell, we've never really seen Eddie Brock, now have we? I mean, other villains you can do good in one movie, but NOT Venom. Besides that, yet again, A NICK VILLAIN is smarter then Venom ever will be. A NICK Villain from DANNY PHANTOM. (Then again, I'm still trying to figure out how he even came to be on nick, seeing as he is so...DARK with a capital D and all...but the fact remains, Venom in the cartoon series and the comics, has never been that smart.

Elaberating on this (Excuse the spelling, if you will) Look, he's just...not good for a movie. AT ALL. The only reason he exists is because of a mistake made by the artists, who wanted to give Spider a new costume. And while he takes the spot light as being Spider Man's 'Ultimate Enemy', he's nothing compared to the Green Goblin, The LIzard(Whom I'd much rather show up in this film), or hell, the HOB GOBLIN for crying out loud. He dosen't deserve this, at all.

To compare him to other villains from other shows/comics would be suicide as well. Hell, I'll pick out a new super villain for a show called Danny Phantom. His name is Dan Phantom, and he's obviously inspired by Venom, due to his history. But you know what seperates them? Venom is an idiot, to the highest degree if you think about it. He's stronger then Spider Man, yes, but NOT BY MUCH. So what dose he do? Him and his GLARING WEAKNESS WHICH SPIDER MAN CAN TAKE ADVATAGE OF, dose he A) Reveal Spider Man to the world and have him hunted? B) dose he kill Spider Man in his sleep, at his house/apartment? Dose he C) openly try and kill him, even though he knows he has a weakness which Spider Man can take advantage of, or dose he D) fool around, and stalk Peter Parker, never doing anything major until it's too late? Guess what? The answer IS D!

Meanwhile, over in Danny Phantom, Dan Phantom is cunning enough to know that Danny would get in the way, so he makes sure Danny can't do anything, while making sure Danny dosen't die. If Danny dies, Dan dies. Then, when fightning Danny, what dose he do? Well, he can't out right kill him, because that would kill he himself, so he just runs out the clock, doing his job PERFECTLY. He was taken surprise by a new ablitie of Danny's, which is what lead to his defeat...but he had done what he wanted. Danny's time ran out, and if it wasn't for an outside force, he would have evenutally turned into Dan as well.

And considering that Dan Phantom is a Nick villain, and he out shines Venom...that's kind of saying something there.

By posting this, you openly insult every Venom fan there is. So if you get insulted back that is to be expected. Venom is a idiot in what way? No, he wasn't a mistake. Venom is one of Spider-Man's worst fears is because Venom has found out Spider-Man is Peter Parker. This could add to the movie alot more then any of the other villians.

I skipped your last paragraph because it's full of b.s. and made little to no sense. We're not here to talk about your new Nick villian called "Dan Phantom". Mostly, Venom is best villian there can be in the movie. Green Goblin didn't do much except kidnap Spidey's friends/family. Doc Ock threatened many people. But Venom is pure destruction.

I suggest you go watch more Spider-Man or read comics or something. The info in your head is leaking out your ears. Venom is one of the best villians because he has EARNED to be called Spidey's Arch Rival.

[The Blue Devil]

He WAS a mistake. The artists never inteded to create Venom, they just wanted to give Spider Man a new suit. The public didn't like it, so they came up with: OH wait! It's really an alien symbiot that he has to get rid of! Really!

As for his idoticy:Look, outside of Ultimate Spider Man, Eddie Brock is a dunce. Venom aint that smart either. Infact, BOTH are idiots, due to the fact that neither one of them decided to take advantage of Spider Man's one weakness to them: his lack of spider sense. They could have quickly killed him off in his sleep or something, not just stalk him, leave cryptic threats, and not do anything major till it was too late. By doing that, he has earned an "IDIOT" level in my book. ANd considering that Dan Phantom, who was ever so slightly based off of Venom, is a much better villain then he, (IE, he did things right) well that's not saying much for ol' Goop boy.

[Guts/Batman]

You're completely forgetting Eddie's whole innocense(sp?) and honor thing with Venom. Hence, why Venom refers to himself as "we" not "I".

And Venom was never an idiot. He just used a rather direct yet honorable approach to dealing with Spider-Man. He wanted to kill him in a specific way (Kinda like Norman Osborne, heh, I guess he is an idiot, too.)

So if that makes Venom/Eddie an idiot, then so be it. But you're missing the whole point of the character if you think that way.

[The Blue Devil]

So, what's stopping Eddie and the symbiot from killing Spider Man again? Or atleast doing it quicker then just waiting around till Spidy can figure out a way to use his GLARING OVERLY LOUD WEAKNESS against him? You know, the SONIC FREQENCY thing? That a BELL could do? Hell, I'd know never to follow Spider Man, because I wouldn't underestimate him. And as we saw, Brock's 'honor' got him a cold, unforgiving, and well deserved death.

[SilverWing]

As for his idoticy:Look, outside of Ultimate Spider Man, Eddie Brock is a dunce. Venom aint that smart either. Infact, BOTH are idiots, due to the fact that neither one of them decided to take advantage of Spider Man's one weakness to them: his lack of spider sense. They could have quickly killed him off in his sleep or something, not just stalk him, leave cryptic threats, and not do anything major till it was too late. By doing that, he has earned an "IDIOT" level in my book. ANd considering that Dan Phantom, who was ever so slightly based off of Venom, is a much better villain then he, (IE, he did things right) well that's not saying much for ol' Goop boy.

*sigh* stop with your idiot Dan Phantom fake as hell rip off. See, you're singling out Venom from the rest of the villians. There were many villians who had a better or same chance to kill Spider-Man. Yes Venom is very honorable about killing Spider-Man and not using cheap tactics. I'd love to see you stop someone from ringing a bell.

[Guts/Batman]

So, what's stopping Eddie and the symbiot from killing Spider Man again? Or atleast doing it quicker then just waiting around till Spidy can figure out a way to use his GLARING OVERLY LOUD WEAKNESS against him? You know, the SONIC FREQENCY thing? That a BELL could do? Hell, I'd know never to follow Spider Man, because I wouldn't underestimate him. And as we saw, Brock's 'honor' got him a cold, unforgiving, and well deserved death.

Heh. The same thing happened to Norman. Guess that makes him a idiot too. Because he wanted the same thing, he wanted to beat him IN battle. Killing him in bed while he is sleeping is not honorable. It doesn't mean anything. Kidnapping Aunt May or MJ is dishonorable.

By that line of logic EVERY villain is an idiot.

He is so much more phsyically stronger, can blend into the surroundings like a chameleon, doesn't alert Peter's Spider-Sense. He is tailor made to defeat Peter.

That "glaring weakness" is not very glaring when you consider the fact that it takes Peter freaking plot devices to stop him. It's not all that glaring.

IMO he gets extra points for eating people's brains.

You really don't understand nor like his character do you? Do you like Norman's 616 character?

And it is a fitting death for a character that treasured innocense and honor to go out without innocense.

Btw, the reason why Peter beats Eddie or Cassidey it is considered Plot Induced Stupidity.

[SilverWing]

Where and how did Venom die?

[The Blue Devil]

To Sliverwing: You might want to watch the show before you can call it 'fake as hell rip off'. I'll even give you the episode's name: The Ultimate Enemy. Dan Phantom is so much frickin better then Venom it's not even funny.

To GB: Norman has proven his intelligence time and time again. Though he too has his slip ups, if you ask me, I like his character better then Venoms. Again, as I'm sure I've mentioned this before, I wouldn't be so against Venom showing up in the third movie IF THEY HAD BUILT UP HIS CHARACTER. A good Venom movie needs to be drawn out, not shoved in one single movie. Besides this, as I'm sure others will disregard it, those plot devices you mention are actually common round these parts, and considering that a bell, mind a very large bell, ringing weakens him...well, those 'Stupidy Plot' things aren't so stupid. And please don't get my started on Carnage, please.

[Guts/Batman]

I agree that there should have been some set up for Venom in the movies but I think they did it fine if they go about it a different way than they do in the 616 universe.

I'm not talking about church bells. I'm talking about Spidey coming up with massive stereos producing "Venom take out" levels of sonic waves. Or borrowing the Human Torch from the FF or Reed Richard's sonic gun (many times!!!!!!)

Plot Induced Stupidty - The hero defeating a vastly more powerful opponent despite having no business beating the opponent. Also, defeating opponents with plot devices count as PIS.

Spider-Man has no business defeating Carnage or Venom.

[The Blue Devil]

Hey, since I'm new here and all, I want to know where can I put up a 'Better Villain' type thread? I want to compare Dark Danny (Whom I just learned was Dan Phantom's real name...) to Venom, just to shut SliverWing up...

It still dosen't change the fact that he could have revealed to the world that Peter Parker was Spiderman, and yet decided to just hang around Peter and taunt him. Alot. Yes, I know this is what alot of villains do, but then again they all are defeated anyways.

[Guts/Batman]

Hey, since I'm new here and all, I want to know where can I put up a 'Better Villain' type thread? I want to compare Dark Danny (Whom I just learned was Dan Phantom's real name...) to Venom, just to shut SliverWing up...

It still dosen't change the fact that he could have revealed to the world that Peter Parker was Spiderman, and yet decided to just hang around Peter and taunt him. Alot. Yes, I know this is what alot of villains do, but then again they all are defeated anyways.

Rumbles would be the place, but you may not find many people agree with you.

Why doesn't Norman do the same thing? He is subject to the seame exact rules or CIS/PIS that Venom is.

But I don't get how you can hate Venom for the same reasons why you like Norman.

That is dishonorable. That's part of the character. If you haven't gotten that by now, you are just ignoring what people like about the character.

[The Blue Devil]

No, I get the fact that he is honorable (Thus why he always seems to torment Peter instead of just plain out fighting him to the bitter end, :rooleyes: ) and stuff like that or else I would have brought up all the missed chances at him killing Peter.

Getting away from Venom for a moment: Why don't the OTHER nonhonorable villains who learn Peter's idienty tell the world?

[Guts/Batman]

Getting away from Venom for a moment: Why don't the OTHER nonhonorable villains who learn Peter's idienty tell the world?

Which other adversaries know his secret Identity?

[The Blue Devil]

A few learn it here and there. Or am I mixing them up with Super Man enemies again...

Regardless, I know that most of the Green Goblins (Even the good one) knew/knows who Spider Man is at one point in time. Even Harry's SON knew in the Spider Girl Series.

[SilverWing]

Hey, since I'm new here and all, I want to know where can I put up a 'Better Villain' type thread? I want to compare Dark Danny (Whom I just learned was Dan Phantom's real name...) to Venom, just to shut SliverWing up...

I'd love to see you shut me up.

[Guts/Batman]

A few learn it here and there. Or am I mixing them up with Super Man enemies again...

Regardless, I know that most of the Green Goblins (Even the good one) knew/knows who Spider Man is at one point in time. Even Harry's SON knew in the Spider Girl Series.

I was under the impression that few knew his identity (unlike Batman).

[SilverWing]

Nontheless Spidey would be sweating bullets if Venom tells his secret identity.

[Harold of the Rocks]

Although 'hate' is a bit too strong. I understand Venom is truly one of Spidey's "great" enemies, but I think those that think like me and might use the term 'classic' villain mean a more historical foe. Spidey has one of the great rogues galleries of all comic book heroes, and introducing Venom before we get Electro, Vulture, Black Cat, Beetle, Scorpion, Lizard, Mysterio, Kraven, or Chameleon is a bit disappointing. I can't read anything about the symbiotes, they just don't interest me. Still, I understand the 'rich' history and significance that Venom has had in Spidey's life. So his inclusion isn't the worst possible choice, but it woulda been nice to see some of Spidey's other rogues introduced first... So I wouldn't say he doesn't belong in the movie franchise, I just would have preferred to see some other villains introduced first, save Venom for Spider-Man V or something. And I am aware that Sony is only involved through the 3 films. I'm pretty confident we will see more Spider-films down the line, though... ;)

[Edman]

That good's and all. You're probably right.

But Venom = $$$

They really had to put him as soon as they could. Most people who have very little to no knowledge of Spider-man know about Venom, " that cool black thing with the tongue."

[darkhawk76]

I fall in to the Venom's an okay villian camp (black costume having a different host would have thrilled me more)

so I'm not like the idea of him being a main villian for S-M3, especially when classics like Electro, Lizard, Mysterio, Hobgoblin heck even Kraven - could and should have been used before him

oh well I'll just have to grin and bare it

[Spider-Man]

No matter what the Venom fans say, the character isn't one of Spidey's classic villains.

And the heart of the matter in this argument is not intelligence. It's unity of creative principle.

Eddie Brock, as villains go, doesn't have the best motivation. "Peter Parker destroyed my life (really just a career) by bringing the Sin-Eater to justice. Wahh!"

This was never a terribly good motive. Nor was Eddie Brock ever a sympathetic villain.

The best kind of villain is one who COULD be just like our hero, except that he/she made some different choices (maybe small, maybe big) that put the villain on the wrong side of the law.

Magneto's a good example. He and Chuck Xavier would be the headmasters of the Xavier-Lensherr School for Gifted Youngsters. But Erik Lensherr made some different choices and reacted differently to being persecuted as a mutant. Not to mention he had a slightly different family experience than did Chuck.

The point is, Spidey's best villains are those that are like him but have chosen to use their power irresponsiby. Norman Osborn and Otto Octavius are portrayed in just this way in Spider-Man 1 and 2, respectively. This is also the way they're portrayed in the comics.

This whole "nobility" thing was added to Eddie Brock when Marvel decided to turn him into an "anti-hero." This was after he'd been overexposed as a villain and was made fairly redundant (and vice versa) by the useless addition of Carnage.

I know you Venom and Carnage fanboys will want my head, but that's the truth. Marvel painted itself into a corner with the whole Venom thing. They should have allowed Michelinie's solution to the Venom problem (he remains on a deserted island believing Spider-Man is dead) to be final and unchanging until and unless someone with an original idea (not Michelinie or Mackie) came along and wanted to bring Venom back.

But that's Marvel's problem. They get a good thing and taste some money, and boom, oversaturation. That's not just Marvel, either. It's corporate mindlessness.

The ONLY way I can see Venom working in a film by someone as intelligent and inventive as Sam Raimi is if the character is very different from the 616 version. The USM version would work rather well, though it's going to seem odd that we've not heard one word about Pete's parents until the third film.

I'd personally like to see a merging of the Spider-Man: The Animated Series Venom and Ultimate Venom, if possible. Or something similar.

Until then, I maintain that there are FAR better villains to use than Venom. The Lizard, The Vulture, Electro, the Roderick Kingsley Hobgoblin, etc. The list goes on.

The perfect line-up for Spidey 3 would've been The Lizard and the Sandman, who's on Harry Osborn's payrole. The film could end with Harry emerging as a second Green Goblin, setting up Spider-Man 4.

Spidey

[Captbigbeard]

No matter what the Venom fans say, the character isn't one of Spidey's classic villains.

And the heart of the matter in this argument is not intelligence. It's unity of creative principle.

Eddie Brock, as villains go, doesn't have the best motivation. "Peter Parker destroyed my life (really just a career) by bringing the Sin-Eater to justice. Wahh!"

This was never a terribly good motive. Nor was Eddie Brock ever a sympathetic villain.

The best kind of villain is one who COULD be just like our hero, except that he/she made some different choices (maybe small, maybe big) that put the villain on the wrong side of the law.

Magneto's a good example. He and Chuck Xavier would be the headmasters of the Xavier-Lensherr School for Gifted Youngsters. But Erik Lensherr made some different choices and reacted differently to being persecuted as a mutant. Not to mention he had a slightly different family experience than did Chuck.

The point is, Spidey's best villains are those that are like him but have chosen to use their power irresponsiby. Norman Osborn and Otto Octavius are portrayed in just this way in Spider-Man 1 and 2, respectively. This is also the way they're portrayed in the comics.

This whole "nobility" thing was added to Eddie Brock when Marvel decided to turn him into an "anti-hero." This was after he'd been overexposed as a villain and was made fairly redundant (and vice versa) by the useless addition of Carnage.

I know you Venom and Carnage fanboys will want my head, but that's the truth. Marvel painted itself into a corner with the whole Venom thing. They should have allowed Michelinie's solution to the Venom problem (he remains on a deserted island believing Spider-Man is dead) to be final and unchanging until and unless someone with an original idea (not Michelinie or Mackie) came along and wanted to bring Venom back.

But that's Marvel's problem. They get a good thing and taste some money, and boom, oversaturation. That's not just Marvel, either. It's corporate mindlessness.

The ONLY way I can see Venom working in a film by someone as intelligent and inventive as Sam Raimi is if the character is very different from the 616 version. The USM version would work rather well, though it's going to seem odd that we've not heard one word about Pete's parents until the third film.

I'd personally like to see a merging of the Spider-Man: The Animated Series Venom and Ultimate Venom, if possible. Or something similar.

Until then, I maintain that there are FAR better villains to use than Venom. The Lizard, The Vulture, Electro, the Roderick Kingsley Hobgoblin, etc. The list goes on.

The perfect line-up for Spidey 3 would've been The Lizard and the Sandman, who's on Harry Osborn's payrole. The film could end with Harry emerging as a second Green Goblin, setting up Spider-Man 4.

Spidey

Yes, yes, venom. So many people love him and so many people hate him! Regardless give him credit for being the most POPULAR villian!

If you think venom has no real reason for hating spidy YOUR WRONG, if you think he's not a char you can feel bad for... YOUR WRONG, if you think he's stupid, your right if he was smarter Spider-Man would be dead ten times over.

Read Spectacular Spider-Man Vol. 1: The Hunger, this really explains Venom. It explains why he hates spidy so much, and makes you feel hella bad for Eddie, and hate the alien even more! To see how a new twist on venom can be done well read Ultimate Spider-Man vol 6 (Hopefully a new twist will be done in the movie cause the whole spider-man find wears the suite... ect has been overdone way to much. I just wanna see the two fight!). Screw this I'm makin a full thread didcated to this!

[Crimson]

A few learn it here and there. Or am I mixing them up with Super Man enemies again...

Regardless, I know that most of the Green Goblins (Even the good one) knew/knows who Spider Man is at one point in time. Even Harry's SON knew in the Spider Girl Series.

For a long time it was because Peter knew theres. If they revealed Peter's, he could reveal theirs. Now it's more of a mind game. Something Norman can use as a weapon (See Millar's MK run).

Scorpion hasn't told anyone because he can use it... why tell everyone else?

[Christopher Ryan]

Sure venom sucks as a anti-hero. But I would guess that in the movie he’d be his orginal true villainous self, which only sucks for spidy ;)

[loc_zsu]

For a long time it was because Peter knew theres. If they revealed Peter's, he could reveal theirs. Now it's more of a mind game. Something Norman can use as a weapon (See Millar's MK run).

Scorpion hasn't told anyone because he can use it... why tell everyone else?
You got it in a nutshell. They can use it to bribe him and stuff where as if they told the world im sure he would just find some way of dealing with it.

[Captbigbeard]

Sure venom sucks as a anti-hero. But I would guess that in the movie he’d be his orginal true villainous self, which only sucks for spidy ;)

BINGO! You took the words right outta my mouth!

[The Blue Devil]

I still say, in a perfect world if they WERE going to use Venom that they should have built up his character OVER TIME, to give it a sort of Final feel to it.

[Guts/Batman]

I still say, in a perfect world if they WERE going to use Venom that they should have built up his character OVER TIME, to give it a sort of Final feel to it.

Heh. I think it shoulda been quite the exact thing with Norman Osborne/Green Goblin.

Norman Osborne is Peter's ultimate enemy, period, IMO. I think his character in the first movie was laughable and pale imatation of his comic character. His costume was even worse than his laughable character.

Should have seen his insanity eating him over 2 - 3 movies while being the Green Goblin without being defeated finally then pulling off almost all the...horrible stuff he pulled off in the comics.

Then after a climactic fight in Spider-Man 3 or 4. I didn't find their "climactic" fight in Spider-Man very climactic. Harry better be incompetent as the GG/Hobgoblin in Spider-Man 3.

Not what he did in Sins Past, but in Revelations/Clone Saga without the clones. IOW, make his life a living hell.

I laughed my ass off when watching Norman in Spider-Man.

[elheffe]

To me, Venom is a pretty lousy choice for a villain. I never thought he worked very well in the comics. Visually, he's very stupid looking; with a three foot long tongue. His motives for hating Spidey are very suspect. And the 'evil' twin with the same powers a the hero has been played out before.
But maybe they'll make him work in the movies.

[Captbigbeard]

To me, Venom is a pretty lousy choice for a villain. I never thought he worked very well in the comics. Visually, he's very stupid looking; with a three foot long tongue. His motives for hating Spidey are very suspect. And the 'evil' twin with the same powers a the hero has been played out before.
But maybe they'll make him work in the movies.

If you don't like the marvel venom, his run of stupid anti-hero comics ruined his rep, at least look at the Ultimate Spider-Man version. Perhaps they can pull it off like that. Venom was really well done in that series. I personally like marvel venom, when he's done right, but I hope they do somethin knew to make him feel more fresh.

[Captbigbeard]

A few learn it here and there. Or am I mixing them up with Super Man enemies again...

Regardless, I know that most of the Green Goblins (Even the good one) knew/knows who Spider Man is at one point in time. Even Harry's SON knew in the Spider Girl Series.

If your mot sure if your talking about superman or spider-man the you shouldn't really be taking such a strong stand.

[The Blue Devil]

My point was proven already, so no need bringing that point up bub. Besides, how many villains have found out about Peter's identiy? How about Clarks? Way too many, if you ask me.

Also, you guys keep on thinking Harry will become the next Green Goblin, or the Hob Goblin, when the fact is he didn't look all "Finally, I have a way to avenge my father!" look on his face when he found out the truth. In fact, it was more "Oh god...is THIS his legacy?!"

[Guts/Batman]

My point was proven already, so no need bringing that point up bub. Besides, how many villains have found out about Peter's identiy? How about Clarks? Way too many, if you ask me.

Also, you guys keep on thinking Harry will become the next Green Goblin, or the Hob Goblin, when the fact is he didn't look all "Finally, I have a way to avenge my father!" look on his face when he found out the truth. In fact, it was more "Oh god...is THIS his legacy?!"

He didn't either in the comics before he became the Green Goblin. Harry HAS to become the Green Goblin.

If your point was that his villains should tell everyone his identity because they are non-honorable villains, then your point is flawed at the very essence of your point.

Villains in comics are almost always egotistical (hence, why they don't share identities of heroes).

Dude, almost no one knows Superman's secret Identity. Max did via Brother Eye, Luthor AFAWK doesn't (despite being his most hardcore villain, Darkseid doesn't (not that he cares), Ruin doesn't, Parasite doesn't, Despero does, the SSoSV knew but they just got mindwiped by Zatanna, do I need to go on?

He can actually protect his secret identity. BatDick, however, doesn't protect his secret identity for crap.

But his identity is protected by his villains being complete psychos and honor bound villains who want to beat him by themselves and would find it unfulfilling to beat Batman that way.

That's why Bane only beat him and threw him down without de-masking him in KnightFall. That's why Ra's doesn't expose him as Bruce (though it would seem to work). The Riddler knows but he is too crazy to be believed by anyone with any semblence of a brain.

Hush knows but he seemingly wants to do the same thing that Bane did but in reverse (he wants to destroy Bruce Wayne, not Batman). There are hints that Joker knows that Bruce is Batman (A Death in the Family), but he (like Riddler) is too crazy to be believed by anyone with a brain.

Villains in comic books tend to find out stuff they shouldn't but don't use it because they are comic book villains. And the CCA says that the heroes must win, no matter how screwed they really, really are (hence, plot devices).

That's why Doom always loses. That's why Magneto loses. That's why Darkseid was turned into Jobberseid. That's why Galactus doesn't devour Earth. Etc.

To use that against Venom and no one else is a very, very poor argument. An argument that one would say if one had never read comic books.

[Captbigbeard]

To use that against Venom and no one else is a very, very poor argument. An argument that one would say if one had never read comic books.

Well said! What I don't get is why so many people hate Venom. I mean he had a very VERY bad lethal protector phase. Ewwwww. That ruined his char, but before that he was a great villian in McFarlane days.

Also more recently starting about when Spectacular Spider-man The hunger came out, marvel realised he was a better villian then hero, and once agian Venom was a bad boy. (I am ignoring the recent Venom saga. That wasn't even really Venom so forget about it! Besides he made up for it with the venom vs carnage series that followed.) He's stared in a bunch of comics and he was even great in the new game that came out. (we all know eddie will be appearing agian soon in the comics!)

[The Blue Devil]

Right now I don't have to bring up the whole 'not telling the world about his secret identity' because WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THEM. We're talking about Venom, who I really don't belive to be that smart. (I'm talking about the ORIGINAL VENOM, who had no honor, whose only real reason was because Peter got him fired, ect.) And that is my opion, key word being OPION.

[Captbigbeard]

Right now I don't have to bring up the whole 'not telling the world about his secret identity' because WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THEM. We're talking about Venom, who I really don't belive to be that smart. (I'm talking about the ORIGINAL VENOM, who had no honor, whose only real reason was because Peter got him fired, ect.) And that is my opion, key word being OPION.

Uhh, I'm trying to understand what your saying but your all over the place. So whats your complaint? Venom's not that smart? Eddie wants to be the one who hurts spidy if he threw out spidy's true identity EVERYONE one of his villians would be after parker. Venom would be pissed if Doc Ock killed spidy first. Sure Venom's not up to par with Doc Ock or Green Goblin's intteligence, BUT he ain't dumb.

[The Blue Devil]

Wait, why am I bringing this up again? Didn't we settle the fact that Venom is an idiot, as I like to belive, is because he has alot of 'honor'? Bah, not the original Venom...nor the Venom that posed with the Hulk, but that's besides the point.

[Captbigbeard]

Wait, why am I bringing this up again? Didn't we settle the fact that Venom is an idiot, as I like to belive, is because he has alot of 'honor'? Bah, not the original Venom...nor the Venom that posed with the Hulk, but that's besides the point.

Venom is now over his whole HONOR phase. He's back to being ruthless. This all happened when Eddie's cancer got real bad. By the way we never settled the fact, you never had any points to settle the fact with.

[Guts/Batman]

Well, Blue Devil, you did open the door to their secret identities and I have argued with it. You are clearly arguing with a anti-Venom bias. When you boil down Norman and Eddie down to their basic elements, you will find that they are basically the same villain.

Yet, you say you hate Venom for the same reasons why you like Norman. You don't get to take both sides. You either like Norman for the same reasons why you like Venom or you hate Norman for the same reasons why you hate Venom.

When you argue you don't use opinion, you use facts. So far you have said that Venom is an idiot and yet you bring no evidence to back up that claim. Sorry, you can't argue with opinion.

You cite Eddie not telling the world about Peter's secret identity, but that claim is not a valid one because he applies to the rule that comic book villains are egotistical and wanna do away with said hero by himself. Norman falls into this category as well. You can't use this against Venom and not against villains you like.

Hence, why I posted about Superman/BatDick's secret identities.

You must choose one or the other.

Other than that "evidence" of Eddie's idiocy, you have offered nothing else to show why Eddie is an idiot.

Yes we all know that Eddie is not a tech God like Octopus or Norman or Mysterio, but he is far from dumb and actually shows a lot of strategy when they fight. In addition to being super strong (which he uses against Spider-Man in his fights effectively) and constantly getting bigger and stronger.

If Venom was a tech God like Octopus and Norman or the "glaring weakness", Peter could not believably beat him...EVER. Some character traits are necessary for the character to be beaten.

And btw, by saying that "That doesn't matter because we're talking about Venom" bit is very, very, very poor arguing seeing how as you brought that topic up.

You are arguing all over the place, stick with an argument and back it up with facts, not opinion.

[Elevation]

Venom is going to suck as a movie character simple as that

[Captbigbeard]

Venom is going to suck as a movie character simple as that

GG sucked as a movie char and everyone thought he was gonna be good. So who knows. If they redo Venom's background and change him here and there like GG and Doc Ock he should be damn good.

[Avalanche]

I'm ok with it. Raimi hasn't let us down yet, and I don't expect him to now. I think it'll turn out to be better than everyone is thinking. I'm just surprised that it even happened considering everytime a symbiote was mentioned to Raimi he shot it down time and time again, saying he would never do Venom or Carnage.

[Captbigbeard]

I'm ok with it. Raimi hasn't let us down yet, and I don't expect him to now. I think it'll turn out to be better than everyone is thinking. I'm just surprised that it even happened considering everytime a symbiote was mentioned to Raimi he shot it down time and time again, saying he would never do Venom or Carnage.

You know in all honesty I'm not even sure Venom is gonna be in the movie. I mean all we have is a report that "claims" Dunst spileld the beans which could very well be hella fake. The only somewhat evidence we have is the fact no one has really denied these claims, and Raimi's interview on IGN where he seems to talk a whole lot about venom.

[Guts/Batman]

Also, depends on how good the CGI will be with Venom's "costume".

Have to balance the "classic" look with not making it look too cartoony.

[Artemis1]

You know in all honesty I'm not even sure Venom is gonna be in the movie. I mean all we have is a report that "claims" Dunst spileld the beans which could very well be hella fake. The only somewhat evidence we have is the fact no one has really denied these claims, and Raimi's interview on IGN where he seems to talk a whole lot about venom.

Agreed. Plus, Sandman and Venom in a movie together? Just doesn't seem to mix well in my book.

[Guts/Batman]

Agreed. Plus, Sandman and Venom in a movie together? Just doesn't seem to mix well in my book.

I wish we would get on with this Harry Osborne crap myself.

And if they bring Norman back, he better be badass this time. But it is a PG-13 movie, a fools hope...

[Ravenheart]

As much as I like Venom,he shouldn't be in the third movie.Its too early for his character to appear when they have all kinds of other foes to use.I would have loved to have seen Electro or Mysterio in the movie with Sandman.

[Captbigbeard]

I wish we would get on with this Harry Osborne crap myself.

And if they bring Norman back, he better be badass this time. But it is a PG-13 movie, a fools hope...

No way in hell will they bring Norman back, except for in Harry's "visions." They have too many Villians they havn't done yet to bring back one that already HAS been done.

[Guts/Batman]

No way in hell will they bring Norman back, except for in Harry's "visions." They have too many Villians they havn't done yet to bring back one that already HAS been done.

True.

This isn't comics afterall.

[loc_zsu]

True.

This isn't comics afterall.
You got that right!!! I mean you saw the dude get gutted!!!

[Guts/Batman]

You got that right!!! I mean you saw the dude get gutted!!!

Norman "died" the exact way in the comics so it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't come back for the last film...

[Captbigbeard]

Norman "died" the exact way in the comics so it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't come back for the last film...
I was hoping the last film would be more epic then the return of GG. Epic as in lotsa villians.

[Piggy21]

Venom will be cool if they make him scary. Maybe he kills off someone important. Make the hatred between him and spidy epic. Venom's back story needs altering, but Venom's got all the right cookies to make a tasty cookie cake!

[loc_zsu]

I was hoping the last film would be more epic then the return of GG. Epic as in lotsa villians.
I agree with you there. The return of GG would be pretty boring.

[Guts/Batman]

I agree with you there. The return of GG would be pretty boring.

Well yes, it would be if they brought bback GG with the same personality with the one he died with...

Personally, I would love to see Black Cat (Felicia Hardy) in a movie. Mysterio could be cool as well.

I would love to see Carnage if only to see the madness of Cassidey on screen. Although Carnage would be hard to pull off in a PG-13 movie.

Hmmmmmm...How would a Sinister Six plot work?

[1_2_3[Kasady]]

I like you... you got balls...i like balls....

plus your a berserk fan. i see me and you being good buddies.

i would rather see kasady over brock anyday..i think that goes without saying, but i am still EXTREMELY excited about venom. I think its kinda wierd they chose ultimate brock (topher's skinny butt) when they had the bulky and intimidating figure of THC ready to suit up and go.

Come on guys, you all know that even if they put HYDRO in there, you'd still fork over your 8 bucks more willingly than a lonely salesman buying a quickie.