Black Panther--last two issues

[BobC]

Hey guys--have you all been reading the last two issues of the Black Panther? It's gotten much, much better! I feel like somebody somewhere has been reading my posts about how there's never any action in Black Panther books --because for two issues now the Panther is finally being presented as a real superhero who can kick some serious azz! For the first time since the mid sixties, the Panther is a formidable combatant, AND his enhanced senses are being played up--he is shown as being on a level with Wolverine, as it should be.

Yeah the Panther's dialogue is a bit questionable, but I for one am very happy that someone is treating him as a first rate fighter.

[tjarvis]

To be fair, Priest turned him into a hardcore character many years ago, so Hudlin is continuing the same treatment.

That said, I actually have enjoyed the last two issues of Black Panther, then again, they've almost more been X-Issues featuring BP than his own title, so I'm not sure if that's an accurate gauge.

[CaptainAwesome]

I still havent mde my choice whether to drop this book or not. I didnt after the first story because that would be unfair, but even though i like this second story better i still dont care about the caracter. I think that if after the first few issues, if you dont care whether he lives or dies, then its time to drop the book. But that said I like this story much better than the "origin" tale.

[Kirk G]

To be fair, Priest turned him into a hardcore character many years ago, so Hudlin is continuing the same treatment.

That said, I actually have enjoyed the last two issues of Black Panther, then again, they've almost more been X-Issues featuring BP than his own title, so I'm not sure if that's an accurate gauge.
I have to agree that the X-factor has been large in the last two issues, but I did enjoy the first six very much!
I was quite taken off guard with the start of issue #8, as i didn't realize it was a continuation of the X-men title, which I haven't bought yet. But, as they were in it so much, I kind of figured it out.
Still, I kept waiting for the flashback to tell me how they came to be bursting in upon T'challa in the first place.

I'm also getting quite annoyed at the constant portrayal of Havok as being a rather dumb guy. He has shown smarts in the past, so why is he being played for laughs as the leader now.
Just how long do you think a team would follow his lead with as many bone-head comments and decisions as he's been shown to make. My team would revolt and start following someone else with a better command of the troops! :rolleyes:

[BobC]

Hey Captain--can you put your finger on why you don't care about the Black Panther?

[Magneto_X]

BobC:

Read Priest's BP series.

That version of Panther would give *Batman* a run for his money in badassness.

Plus, it was one of my favourite comics at the time, too.

[BobC]

I did read it, Mag. There were things I liked about it--particularly the high tech weapons and the more updated image, but overall I grew really tired of the lack of action. I also felt Priest completely ignored the Panthers catlike abilities, nor did he even remotely explore the spiritual side of the Black Panther.

While I can appreciate that you liked the similarity to Batman in certain respects, I thought that was a huge mistake. Too many people as it was confused the Panther with Batman, and the original concept of T'Challa was far FAR more interesting than Batman ever was. I feel the Black Panther is a great character waiting to happen (I feel the same way about the Inhumans, Doctor Doom and the Red Skull--if a great writer gets ahold of the original concept of these characters and enhances any of them, they will become A-list IMO).

By the way, I feel Mark Millar is the man for the job. His Ultimate Fantastic Four is AWESOME--and his take on the Inhumans, while biref, was astonishingly good. I can't believe I almost never picked that book up since I've always found the FF to be a real snooze-fest.

[hbkabdul]

I have to agree that the X-factor has been large in the last two issues, but I did enjoy the first six very much!
I was quite taken off guard with the start of issue #8, as i didn't realize it was a continuation of the X-men title, which I haven't bought yet. But, as they were in it so much, I kind of figured it out.
Still, I kept waiting for the flashback to tell me how they came to be bursting in upon T'challa in the first place.

I'm also getting quite annoyed at the constant portrayal of Havok as being a rather dumb guy. He has shown smarts in the past, so why is he being played for laughs as the leader now.
Just how long do you think a team would follow his lead with as many bone-head comments and decisions as he's been shown to make. My team would revolt and start following someone else with a better command of the troops! :rolleyes:

I too have become annoyed with Havok the idiot. In his first few appearence it was Cyclops who was envious of Havok and now we have Alex who can't get out of Scott's Shadow. What has me as well is that Havok has lead his own adjectiveless X-Men, the Brotherhood, the Six, and X-Factor and yet he still acts like a git.

[Paradox]

I think the only reason I'm still reading this book is because I keep forgetting to take it off my pull list.

Compared to the Priest version, I find this book shallow and tedious. I couldn't care less about the amounts of "action" or a focus on powers. I care about the characters. Priest "changed" a lot when he came on (some of it he was just changing BACK to the original) and I found them good and with a point. Most of Hudlin's run I HAVEN'T enjoyed the changes, and found them pointless.

If he was really looking to make a "hip-hop adventure for the 21st century" he'd have been better off using White Tiger, I think.

[grendel824]

That's cool to hear that it's getting better - I'm several months behind, and I'm still giving BP a chance. I like Hudlin's writing fine, but he doesn't grab me the way Priest did (I have a similar ennui about his MK Spidey). BP's such a cool character, I hope the book hits another good stride the way it did with Priest's run.

[BobC]

Well it's not a great book but at least there's some action now. Also--for the first time in his own book, T'Challa seems to be part of the larger Marvel universe. I've always held that a solo book lives or dies on the back of its guest stars, so it's been nice seeing Black Bolt, Namor, and the X-Men in his comic.

AND it was great to see T'Challa knock the crap out of Sabertooth.

The dialogue is pretty horrendous, however. "A Baboon? I hate baboons!" Sorry guys, but that's just something the Panther would never say.

[Kirk G]

Well it's not a great book but at least there's some action now. Also--for the first time in his own book, T'Challa seems to be part of the larger Marvel universe. I've always held that a solo book lives or dies on the back of its guest stars, so it's been nice seeing Black Bolt, Namor, and the X-Men in his comic.

AND it was great to see T'Challa knock the crap out of Sabertooth.

The dialogue is pretty horrendous, however. "A Baboon? I hate baboons!" Sorry guys, but that's just something the Panther would never say.

I haven't read the issue closely yet, but is there any doubt in anyone's mind about whose babboon this was?

" :D Anyone, anyone? Bueller? Anyone?"

[BobC]

My vote is the Red Ghost

[Overworm]

I stopped reading BP after the first few issues. I loved the art, but the stories, and yes the dialogue, was not up to par. Maybe I should give it another try.

Overworm
http://www.overworm.com/NothingToSeeHere.htm

[Tennoarashi]

I only picked up the issues because of the Storm appearances. His HOM Storm was great, this one not so much.

But what scares me is that this is his good stuff.

I miss Priest.

[Crash-Man]

I miss Priest.

So do I.

It annoys me everytime I see a Hudlin fan say "for the first time" regarding this current run of Black Panther.

Hudlin's done virtually nothing "for the first time" that Priest didn't already do better.

Priest had a high-status T'Challa, an ass-kicking T'Challa, guest star issues and guest star extravanganzas (I recall that meeting with Namor and Doom, with Captain America, the issues with the Avengers, the issues with the blaxploitation characters, Hydroman, a Storm arc and more...) and better writing than Priest's ever had.

I also think that Priest was right to place more focus on T'Challa's role as a powerful regent than on his abilities as a warrior, but I agree that there wasn't enough action in the book.

[hbkabdul]

So do I.

It annoys me everytime I see a Hudlin fan say "for the first time" regarding this current run of Black Panther.

Hudlin's done virtually nothing "for the first time" that Priest didn't already do better.

Priest had a high-status T'Challa, an ass-kicking T'Challa, guest star issues and guest star extravanganzas (I recall that meeting with Namor and Doom, with Captain America, the issues with the Avengers, the issues with the blaxploitation characters, Hydroman, a Storm arc and more...) and better writing than Priest's ever had.

I also think that Priest was right to place more focus on T'Challa's role as a powerful regent than on his abilities as a warrior, but I agree that there wasn't enough action in the book.

If Priest had such a great run and wrote the definitive Black Panther I wonder why Marvel didn't relaunch the book as they did on fan favorite titles like She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Runaways and Sentinel.

[Hombre]

If Priest had such a great run and wrote the definitive Black Panther

I wouldn't say conclusively Priest wrote the definitive Black Panther, one thing I hold true, anyway, his work on BP is worthy of standing next to Marvel's most exciting and vibrant work in the 70s and 80s... it wasn't an imitation of a great comic, it was a great comic in its own right that built on the story elements and continuity established by previous writers to craft a complex tale that was distinctively Priest's own, following its creative path beyond the figure of T'Challa. Last T'Challa was the star of the book, he had developed a fatal brain aneurysm and was starting to lose his grip on the delicate balance he had strived to maintain as ruler of his Kingdom.

Besides the fact that Priest had moved on from T'Challa and Wakanda to Kasper Cole, the Crew and inner city reality, Marvel is likely not to have tapped him for a relaunch because his storytelling didn't translate into commercial success. I'm satisfied that it translated into a superlative creative success, and remain hopeful that he may once again be entrusted with the rich and fascinating legacy of the Black Panther.

[BobC]

Uhhhhhhh who's ass, exactly, did the Black Panther kick in the Priest run, other than Hydroman?

[itsyaboy]

Uhhhhhhh who's ass, exactly, did the Black Panther kick in the Priest run, other than Hydroman?

Just off the top of my head. The U.S. government, Russian Mob, Klaw, Hydroman, Iron Man, Loki, Mephisto, and I think a few others. Priest showed that Panther wasn't just some costumed hero......he's a king and leader of a nation. So you're not just fighting the Black Panther, but the combined might and resources of the Wakandan nation. I always thought that Panther was worthy of A-list treatmeant and that's what Priest brought to the table.

Unfortunately, I'm not enjoying Hudlin's run. I remember when Wizard made it sound like a big deal that Hudlin was on the project, "now Panther has Hollywood star power attached to him"......you know other than House Party, I can't recall anything else that Hudlin's done in Hollywood......atleast nothing big anyway.

I think why alot of people don't like RH's run is because they're comparing it to Priest's. And if you look at the two side by side.....Hudlin's writing so far just pales in comparison.

[BobC]

Okay--I forgot about Mephisto. I'll give you that.

I was happy that Priest played up the king aspect of the BP--but I think maybe he did that at the expense of the Panther being a super hero. I buy comics to see super heroes and I read Time and Newsweek to see politics. I guess it's a matter of taste and what you look for in a comic. I think nobody's gotten the character quite right since FF 52.

[Crash-Man]

If Priest had such a great run and wrote the definitive Black Panther I wonder why Marvel didn't relaunch the book as they did on fan favorite titles like She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Runaways and Sentinel.


Priest had a 62 issue run on Panther, already dwarfing most major relaunches in the past ten years. It ended about three years ago.

Those books you mentioned either didn't exist, or didn't have successful/long runs in the past decade.

I don't see the comparison.

Especially when the book has been relaunched recently.

[Crash-Man]

Marvel is likely not to have tapped him for a relaunch because his storytelling didn't translate into commercial success.

I'd replace "storytelling" with "lack of mainstream celebrity status", but I generally agree.

[VisionNick]

Why does this current run of BP have to be compared to Priest's run? That was considered great by most, but a low seller, so it eventually went away.

Now Panther is back, and trying to maintain a foothold in comic stores, and the Priest run was years ago. Lets talk about the current issues and if they're any good or not instead.

I for one tried Panther #1 and 2, and thought they were okay.... with a decent story and very good art. But, not good enough to add to my pull list.
But, I recently bought issue #7 due to the great Kaare Andrews cover (I've always been a sucker for a great cover) and I just read that today. Great issue, 8/10. A nice self contained HOM crossover, with good dialogue, excellent art, and 2 fun action sequences. Maybe I'll check out issue 8, and if the quality continues then maybe I'll consider Hudlin writing this book as an asset instead of a liability.

[BobC]

If Priest's run was considered "Great by most" it wouldn't have been a poor seller. Come on guys. Priest's run, for all of its good points, was convoluted, tedious and dull as a TV sitcom. I started out buying it, and felt really excited by the first few issues--I really thought great things were in store. But every story just drrraaaaaaaggged.

I hope people aren't thinking that I rate the last two issues of BP as some sort of stellar rebound. I was just happy that T'Challa really mixed it up with some first rate villains and won. I am so desperate to see the Panther actually do ANYTHING physically in a comic that I had to start a thread congratulating the new writer.

[xmanson]

Hudlin writes Tchalla like a crappy Sipder Man wannabe with moronic dialogue. The gorilla and baboon lines from last issue were atrocious. His Storm is completely out of character.

And Panther works much, muuuuuuch better as a king involved in politics and behind the scenes machinations than some wise-cracker in a kitty suit.

I don't think you were really paying attention to the book if you're complaining of lack of action. There was plenty and always fantastic stuff. You know... beating a gigantig Klaw seems much more interesting than fighting baboons.. at least to me.

Not to mention Ross and the whole supporting cast.

A great book that deserved more attention.

[BobC]

I agree that the dialogue is atrocious. I even pointed out the baboon line earlier in this thread.

The lack of action criticism is something I hear from ex-comic collectors all the time. I do videogames for a living and just today one of my co-workers came into my office and made a great point. His name is Tom and he's in his 30's and has collected comics since the late 70's--but recently he stopped altogether. Today I asked him why, and he said comics used to be epic battles, kind of like videogames, where one opponent went up against another, pitting his unique abilities against someone elses' abilities. That was what was exciting about comics. Today, you almost never see any superhero actually overcoming anybody--it's always big epic splash pages of characters in mid swing, scowling, looking fierce but not actually doing anything--and it's boring as hell.

The New Avengers is a CLASSIC example of this. Look at Spider-woman. She has been floating around stinging people for issue after issue after issue, but never overcoming anybody. In fact, I've yet to see her sting make any impact on anybody.

The one time, the ONLY time, that Spiderwoman has been exciting (well--in a combat way) was when she took down Wolverine a few issues ago. You can look at all the issues, and this was the only time Bendis showed any character really taking somebody down that I can recall. It was about the only memorable moment of his run.

Anyway--lack of action seems to be the hallmark of Marvel these days, which is why people are leaving in droves.

On the bright side, Ultimate FF is kicking AZZ and the way Millar is handling the Invisible Woman's abilities is AWESOME!! She really is one of the most powerful Marvel women, and MM is so adept at showing off her skills in new and unique ways!

[Crash-Man]

If Priest's run was considered "Great by most" it wouldn't have been a poor seller.

Right. Because we all know that sales are an infallible indicator of quality.

This whole thread seems to be based on two or three good fight scenes, rather than the general quality of Hudlin's work on Black Panther.

[BobC]

Crash man--actually it is an indicator of quality. In other words, it means enough people find the comic interesting and exciting enough to buy it. Look at Daredevil--he was on the verge of cancellation throughout the late 70's and was considered a c-lister. Then Frank Miller and Electra came in and changed everything. The comic was exciting, had great battle scenes, and most importantly Miller made the supporting cast amongst the best in comic history.

Same with the X-Men. They were CANCELLED at one point. Why? Because they sucked. Have you ever read the last couple of issues before cancellation? You want to see the worst dialogue EVER in a comic? Look there. Crappy villains. Boring fight scenes. Characters going nowhere. Blech.

If people stop buying a book, as people did on Priest's run, there's a reason.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Crash man--actually it is an indicator of quality. In other words, it means enough people find the comic interesting and exciting enough to buy it. Look at Daredevil--he was on the verge of cancellation throughout the late 70's and was considered a c-lister. Then Frank Miller and Electra came in and changed everything. The comic was exciting, had great battle scenes, and most importantly Miller made the supporting cast amongst the best in comic history.

Same with the X-Men. They were CANCELLED at one point. Why? Because they sucked. Have you ever read the last couple of issues before cancellation? You want to see the worst dialogue EVER in a comic? Look there. Crappy villains. Boring fight scenes. Characters going nowhere. Blech.

If people stop buying a book, as people did on Priest's run, there's a reason.

That is ridiculous. Commercial success doesn't equal objective quality. Something isn't "better" by definition because it is of a superior quality. Commercial success doesn't mean ANYTHING other than higher sales, and that is fine. Some feel Priest's is of a higher calibre, some feel that way about Hudlin, but whichever makes more money isn't the better writer. Some of the worst books in the world are the most successful in sales. Books like the Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, and in later generations Goosebumps, are written with such a strict forumla that anyone with any experience reviewing children's literature will find them to be of a very poor quality. But they are still some of the most successful books in terms of sales for young reading audiences.

No one is going to make someone think "Hey, it doesn't matter what I think is better, this one sells more, it MUST be better..." This is, IMO, simply a difference of opinion. I prefer Priest's writing, but I don't assume that means he is a superior author.

But then, that is just me.

[BobC]

So your opinion holds more value than the opinion of thousands of readers who started out reading Priest's version and then dropped it?

[RonnieThunderbolts]

So your opinion holds more value than the opinion of thousands of readers who started out reading Priest's version and then dropped it?

No, it holds the SAME value as each of them. Sales are sales, not quality. Popularity doesn't mean the same thing as good work. I think that every reader is their own judge of quality, as it has always been.

[BobC]

Well after buying comics for over thirty years, it's been MY experience that if you make an exciting, original comic with great characters, it WILL SELL. Mark Millar is a stellar example. Everything he writes sells because he is an awesome writer.

"It's not what you say
and it's not what you think
it's what you do and if you're moving in synch
with the world..."

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Well after buying comics for over thirty years, it's been MY experience that if you make an exciting, original comic with great characters, it WILL SELL. Mark Millar is a stellar example. Everything he writes sells because he is an awesome writer.

"It's not what you say
and it's not what you think
it's what you do and if you're moving in synch
with the world..."

I can respect that Bob, to be sure, and I do disagree, because I've seen many examples of excellent titles not selling well. Titles that have come around later, and gained in sales, like Runaways, as a recent example. I also think that too often in the history of existence the popular choice is very wrong, many times in extreme situations, and in minor areas like entertainment as well. But at any rate, I don't have any ill will toward Hudlin's title, I have just found many titles that make a lot of money are low on the quality tip.

[BobC]

I understand what you're saying--you're saying that a Big Mac outsells filet mignon a million to one, but no sane person could say a Big Mac is better food.

I just want to see the Panther come out of his B-tier status (I've even heard him described as C-string) and so far nobody's done that with him. It's sad. IMO the BP has to go up against A-level characters and win.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I understand what you're saying--you're saying that a Big Mac outsells filet mignon a million to one, but no sane person could say a Big Mac is better food.

I just want to see the Panther come out of his B-tier status (I've even heard him described as C-string) and so far nobody's done that with him. It's sad. IMO the BP has to go up against A-level characters and win.

Exactly. I agree with you about Panther to an extent. I'm not sure about how to secure a higher ranking for BP, but he is an excellent character, one of my favorites. I don't really like retcon origins nowadays, so the new Doom Patrol and Black Panther aren't really interesting to me right now, but I don't judge them harshly, as they are simply not my cup of tea at the moment. When I was younger I LOVED the post-Crisis retellings of Batman and Superman's origins, and Wonder Woman's as well.

But T'Challa is worthy of the highest of comic heroes status, I think we can agree on that for sure.

[BobC]

Yes I agree. The Black Panther is no Big Mac!

[Alan2099]

Yes I agree. The Black Panther is no Big Mac!
For one, he really hates it when you try to put ketchup and pickles on him. :p

[BobC]

Hey Ronnie can you think of an example of a comic you thought was really good that didn't sell?

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Hey Ronnie can you think of an example of a comic you thought was really good that didn't sell?

I think Chase from DC, the first Runaways and Sentinel from Marvel, New Invaders from Marvel, Captain America and Falcon, Joe Casey's Wildcats, Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E., and many more. Sometimes I think good, high quality work can slip through the cracks, or fail to find its audience.

[hbkabdul]

I wouldn't say conclusively Priest wrote the definitive Black Panther, one thing I hold true, anyway, his work on BP is worthy of standing next to Marvel's most exciting and vibrant work in the 70s and 80s... it wasn't an imitation of a great comic, it was a great comic in its own right that built on the story elements and continuity established by previous writers to craft a complex tale that was distinctively Priest's own, following its creative path beyond the figure of T'Challa. Last T'Challa was the star of the book, he had developed a fatal brain aneurysm and was starting to lose his grip on the delicate balance he had strived to maintain as ruler of his Kingdom.

Besides the fact that Priest had moved on from T'Challa and Wakanda to Kasper Cole, the Crew and inner city reality, Marvel is likely not to have tapped him for a relaunch because his storytelling didn't translate into commercial success. I'm satisfied that it translated into a superlative creative success, and remain hopeful that he may once again be entrusted with the rich and fascinating legacy of the Black Panther.


I didn't mean to say it was the definitive run of BP but instead meant to ask if the book was so great instead than why........? All the books I listed previously weren't commercial successes but yet they got relaunched with the SAME creative team. It WOULD seem Marvel didn't have the same faith in Priest after keeping BP off the chopping blocks for so long.

[hbkabdul]

Priest had a 62 issue run on Panther, already dwarfing most major relaunches in the past ten years. It ended about three years ago.

Those books you mentioned either didn't exist, or didn't have successful/long runs in the past decade.

I don't see the comparison.

Especially when the book has been relaunched recently.

You don't see the comparison because you only hear and see what you want to and whatever makes the best arguement for your case. Priest's run wasn't supposed to last as long as it did. Despite all the buzz the book's sales didn't warrant its continued publishing. Those titles i mentioned all suffered from low sales as well. They also had a little buzz around them and Marvel decided to relaunch the books with the SAME creative teams. Yes the book has been relaunched recently but not with Priest writing it mind you. So I don't see the point of your last sentence I'm afraid.

[hbkabdul]

Hudlin writes Tchalla like a crappy Sipder Man wannabe with moronic dialogue. The gorilla and baboon lines from last issue were atrocious. His Storm is completely out of character.

And Panther works much, muuuuuuch better as a king involved in politics and behind the scenes machinations than some wise-cracker in a kitty suit.

I don't think you were really paying attention to the book if you're complaining of lack of action. There was plenty and always fantastic stuff. You know... beating a gigantig Klaw seems much more interesting than fighting baboons.. at least to me.

Not to mention Ross and the whole supporting cast.

A great book that deserved more attention.


Yes you are right because everyone started reading SUPERHERO FICTION in comic books because we like reading about monarchs involved in politics. :rolleyes: replace that smile with a frown and you got an idea of what I really look like while reading your above comment.

[hbkabdul]

No, it holds the SAME value as each of them. Sales are sales, not quality. Popularity doesn't mean the same thing as good work. I think that every reader is their own judge of quality, as it has always been.


To say that sales don't equal quality is asinine. Would you buy a book that you thought was of poor quality?

[RonnieThunderbolts]

To say that sales don't equal quality is asinine. Would you buy a book that you thought was of poor quality?

No, but I WOULD buy a book others think is poor quality. To pretend popularity equates objective worth or quality is extremely childish.

[Crash-Man]

You don't see the comparison because you only hear and see what you want to and whatever makes the best arguement for your case. Priest's run wasn't supposed to last as long as it did. Despite all the buzz the book's sales didn't warrant its continued publishing. Those titles i mentioned all suffered from low sales as well. They also had a little buzz around them and Marvel decided to relaunch the books with the SAME creative teams. Yes the book has been relaunched recently but not with Priest writing it mind you. So I don't see the point of your last sentence I'm afraid.


Again, I don't see your comparison or point.

Priest had a 62-issue chance with BP. Most of those titles you mentioned barely lasted for more than a year, and at least two of them were specifically written with "trial period" in mind. If they returned, that's good for them (because they deserved to be relaunched, and I'm not disparaging their quality at all), but until they all make five years with the same writers, your comparison will continue to be pointless.

Because what you're basically saying is that Marvel supported those books for relaunches with the same creative teams due to critical/fan acclaim. And you're right. But you're also implying that they didn't relaunch BP with Priest because his work wasn't good enough. And I think that's nonsense. Priest's BP didn't exist in the same context as most of those books.

BP was introduced as an ongoing series more than five years ago. Most of those titles you mentioned were created specifically with "trial run" and "TPB" in mind, and in different Marvel lines as well.

What, you don't think Priest would have been called back to write BP after the "Enemy of the State" arc if Marvel had been approaching his run with the same marketing strategy as Runaways or Sentinel? I highly doubt it. If you could prove that, we'd be getting somewhere.



Keep in mind that all of this doesn't detract from the lack of quality (imo) of Hudlin's work and the undeniable role that his "celebrity" has played in his selection and the book's initial commercial success.

[Crash-Man]

To say that sales don't equal quality is asinine. Would you buy a book that you thought was of poor quality?


This is beyond ridiculous.

With that logic, you'd swear that all products exist within the same context and factors like marketing, popularity, and niche don't play a role.

People buy weakly-written runs of X-Men by the tens of thousands monthly because it's X-Men. The brand has power. Thousands of casual readers pick it up from magazine racks because they saw the movie, many comic fans have subscriptions that they more than likely won't cancel. On the other hand, excellently-written titles with less recognizable characters or from lesser-known companies who can't afford blitz marketing go unnoticed.

Kinda ironic though, because in this very thread you brought up the example of poorly-selling books that were relaunched due to fan acclaim. By your logic, if they were so good, then why didn't they have good sales?

[BobC]

New Avengers is the biggest seller out there and it's a snoozer--but overall I think people buy books because they are good. The Ultimates, Lee's Batman, Millar era Authority, ect

I do NOT want to read a comic about the Black Panther standing around for months being king. I want to see him kicking the crap out of Sabretooth.

[Hombre]

Now Panther is back, and trying to maintain a foothold in comic stores, and the Priest run was years ago. Lets talk about the current issues and if they're any good or not instead.

Maybe I'll check out issue 8, and if the quality continues then maybe I'll consider Hudlin writing this book as an asset instead of a liability.

I've had that attitude from the start, when the new book was solicited, I could care less about ultimate this or young that, I felt the Panther had to have a book. And Lord knows I wanted to like it and I refrained from judging it in haste. But as of issue 8, I feel I can safely throw in my two cents.

To me, having T'Challa talk that way is just plain insane, this is the exact opposite of T'Challa, an honorable man who would never belittle his allies and talk out of turn. I love comics and I'm glad if people enjoy this run, but I wonder if they have any familiarity with who the Panther has been through the years, as a member of the Avengers and in his solo adventures as chronicled by true visionaries such as Roy Thomas, Jim Shooter, Don McGregor, Jack Kirby and Priest himself.

[hbkabdul]

Again, I don't see your comparison or point.

Priest had a 62-issue chance with BP. Most of those titles you mentioned barely lasted for more than a year, and at least two of them were specifically written with "trial period" in mind. If they returned, that's good for them (because they deserved to be relaunched, and I'm not disparaging their quality at all), but until they all make five years with the same writers, your comparison will continue to be pointless.

Because what you're basically saying is that Marvel supported those books for relaunches with the same creative teams due to critical/fan acclaim. And you're right. But you're also implying that they didn't relaunch BP with Priest because his work wasn't good enough. And I think that's nonsense. Priest's BP didn't exist in the same context as most of those books.

BP was introduced as an ongoing series more than five years ago. Most of those titles you mentioned were created specifically with "trial run" and "TPB" in mind, and in different Marvel lines as well.

What, you don't think Priest would have been called back to write BP after the "Enemy of the State" arc if Marvel had been approaching his run with the same marketing strategy as Runaways or Sentinel? I highly doubt it. If you could prove that, we'd be getting somewhere.



Keep in mind that all of this doesn't detract from the lack of quality (imo) of Hudlin's work and the undeniable role that his "celebrity" has played in his selection and the book's initial commercial success.


I tire of trying to explain things repeatedly. At this point all i can say is if you don't like the book than quit reading it, buying it, etc etc etc. You can complain all day until you turn blue in the face about your dislike of Hudlin's Panther and wish Priest was on the book or whatever your trying to accomplish here but as things are now this is how BP is being portrayed. Get on with your life whatever dislikes you've had about the book have been heard. This is a forum but how many times can one person complain about the same thing over and over and over like a broken record that just won't end? Peace.

[Crash-Man]

Actually, you're the one who's been following me through multiple threads on the forum trying to contend my opinion of the book. That's going to "accomplish" even less than I will.

You seem rather angry about it too.

Sorry if my thoughts bother you so much. I've been complaining about the book, not you. If my posts bother you...do yourself a favor and follow your own advice, okay? See you around, friend. :)

[Sharcque]

A BP discussion/argument & I wasn't here?!?!? Rassum-frassum..... :mad:

[BobC]

What's wrong with being angry? My own mood seems to be constantly swinging between bouts of feeling not-so-fresh to extreme rage. Kind of like a white trash Hulk.