Wolverine's Recruitment

[Brian R]

I know most people were against Logan joining the team in the first place, however a lot of us(including me) have gotten used to the idea of seeing him as an Avenger now. However, there is something that has been bugging me for a while now, so I had to start a thread about this.

There are two main reasons why Wolvie joins the team, this is how Tony convinces him:

1) He offers to pay him, even though the rest of the team doesnt get any cash.

2) He talks to him about his image needing a boost in light of what happened recently in his own title, and that joining the Avengers would be a good way to change people's perception of him.


Now, here is my problem:

1) Since when does Wolverine give a giant crap about money!?? Why would he care about this at all? He lives in the mansion with the other X-Men doesnt he? Dont they have everything they need there? Does he need the extra cash for cigars?

2) His image... HIS IMAGE!!?? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!? *passes out*...when has Logan ever cared what others thought of him? Why would he start caring now, it makes no sense.


Im not even going into how he is supposedly a "loner" since he's been an X-Man for like twenty years, and its not that I dont think he would never join the Avengers, just that the way Tony convinced him didnt make sense. Maybe for Spidey, but not for Wolvie, they should have reversed the Cap/Spidey conversation and the Tony/Logan scene, that would have made more sense. I can totally buy Peter needing money and caring about his image, and I can also buy Logan listening to Cap, because every hero respects Cap.

I know its somewhat of a rant, but I would like to hear others opinions on this. How do you feel about the manner in which Wolverine was brought onto the team, was it in-character?

[Jake V]

The Tony "paying" Wolvie was never about money. It was about getting him a thing or doing him a favor. He isn't getting paid money.

The image thing has to do with how he recently was a tool of the Hand and Hydra and broke into Xavier's school and killed Northstar. Depending on who's continuity you're following, Wolvie ain't too proud of that and has difficulty showing his face around there. Being in the the Avengers would get him out of the school and make him a big shining public hero.

It really makes more sense from Wolverine's perspective to be an Avenger than it does for Iron Man to want him there.

But whatever, he's there and this is a way for me to read regular Wolverine adventures without having to buy an X-book.

[Brian R]

The Tony "paying" Wolvie was never about money. It was about getting him a thing or doing him a favor. He isn't getting paid money.

The image thing has to do with how he recently was a tool of the Hand and Hydra and broke into Xavier's school and killed Northstar. Depending on who's continuity you're following, Wolvie ain't too proud of that and has difficulty showing his face around there. Being in the the Avengers would get him out of the school and make him a big shining public hero.

It really makes more sense from Wolverine's perspective to be an Avenger than it does for Iron Man to want him there.

But whatever, he's there and this is a way for me to read regular Wolverine adventures without having to buy an X-book.

I thought it was actual cash, so I'll back off that point. However my second point still stands. I mean, he's been in so many fights with teammates in the past, I just dont see him giving a crap how the others percieve him. Maybe thats just my idea of Wolvie, but I never saw him as a guy who cared what others thought about him. Im not saying he shouldnt be sad about what he did, but its not like he wasnt being mind-controlled, so I would think his friends would cut him some slack.

As for him being on the team, like I said, I think it works now, I have no problem with that, and It is nice to be able to read a book with Logan in it that doesnt have an X on the front.

[Jake V]

I thought it was actual cash, so I'll back off that point. However my second point still stands. I mean, he's been in so many fights with teammates in the past, I just dont see him giving a crap how the others percieve him. Maybe thats just my idea of Wolvie, but I never saw him as a guy who cared what others thought about him. Im not saying he shouldnt be sad about what he did, but its not like he wasnt being mind-controlled, so I would think his friends would cut him some slack.

As for him being on the team, like I said, I think it works now, I have no problem with that, and It is nice to be able to read a book with Logan in it that doesnt have an X on the front.
I think that Wolverine doesn't care what others think about him to a certain extent, but he was a flat-out villain in Enemy of the State. It wasn't simple mind control, it was an unlocking of a part of his brain that simply enjoyed killing indiscriminately. He went on a rampage through SHIELD, New York City and Xavier's mansion. He terrified the student body and betrayed the team by killing Northstar and assaulting Marvel Girl. While yeah, Wolverine doesn't care if people think he's a douchebag, he does care if children that are supposed to trust him think that he's a psychotic murderer. It's part of his noble, samurai nature.

I think that Wolverine believes that his serving as an Avenger is an oppurtunity to regain the trust that he lost.

[Brian R]

Stop making sense or I'll strap ten quivers of arrows to your back and set them on fire.

[Jake V]

Not like this!! NOT LIKE THIS!!!!!!

[Brian R]

Not like this!! NOT LIKE THIS!!!!!!

LMAO :D

Thanks for making me laugh Jake, I needed it.

[BizarroBeachHead]

Well I'm perfectly okay with the reasons Wolverine is on the team, but I wish it would have been explained a little better.

First of all, I would have appreciated if it had been taken care of in the first arc, not as a flashback in the second arc. Bendis gave us a reason in issue 6, then as if it wasn't good enough, gave us another better reason in issue 7. It all seemed kind of superfluos, but whatever, I can deal.

However, it felt that Tony glossed over what happened in Enemy of the State. It didn't seem like anything extremely notorious was being eluded to, unless you had read Enemy of the State and already knew.

Also, it would help if we were seeing some of these ramifications of Wolverine's rampage in the other X-titles(or ANY book for that matter). I mean, it all looks pretty sound when it explained on paper. But does anyone reading ANY of the books Wolverine is in, feel like he's embarassed to be around the mansion or the kids or people in general. No, I don't think so. At best, we may see something in his own title, but that won't be for a while seeing as how the most recent issue was a flashback tale and the next 3 are House of M tie ins.

But of course, Logan has to be in as many titles as possible. I think thats why a lot of people aren't buying Wolverine's recruitment to the Avengers. We aren't really seeing the reasons we're given.

[BlackKnight]

Well I'm perfectly okay with the reasons Wolverine is on the team, but I wish it would have been explained a little better.

First of all, I would have appreciated if it had been taken care of in the first arc, not as a flashback in the second arc. Bendis gave us a reason in issue 6, then as if it wasn't good enough, gave us another better reason in issue 7. It all seemed kind of superfluos, but whatever, I can deal.

However, it felt that Tony glossed over what happened in Enemy of the State. It didn't seem like anything extremely notorious was being eluded to, unless you had read Enemy of the State and already knew.

Also, it would help if we were seeing some of these ramifications of Wolverine's rampage in the other X-titles(or ANY book for that matter). I mean, it all looks pretty sound when it explained on paper. But does anyone reading ANY of the books Wolverine is in, feel like he's embarassed to be around the mansion or the kids or people in general. No, I don't think so. At best, we may see something in his own title, but that won't be for a while seeing as how the most recent issue was a flashback tale and the next 3 are House of M tie ins.

But of course, Logan has to be in as many titles as possible. I think thats why a lot of people aren't buying Wolverine's recruitment to the Avengers. We aren't really seeing the reasons we're given.

Thats just it, the reasons given for Wolverine joining the team in my opinion were lame and poorly tought out. A favor from Tony and better rep. LOL, give me a break. But hey if you some people want to swallow that clap trap, your welcome to it.

[BizarroBeachHead]

Thats just it, the reasons given for Wolverine joining the team in my opinion were lame and poorly tought out. A favor from Tony and better rep. LOL, give me a break. But hey if you some people want to swallow that clap trap, your welcome to it.
Well, I wouldn't say they were exactly lame, but definately poorly thought out and terribly executed.

The way Jake V explained it would have worked well enough, but I don't think many people are actually seeing that, but are being forced to imagine it(or have it explained to them).

[BlackKnight]

Well, I wouldn't say they were exactly lame, but definately poorly thought out and terribly executed.

The way Jake V explained it would have worked well enough, but I don't think many people are actually seeing that, but are being forced to imagine it(or have it explained to them).

Like I have said many times, if you have to imagine or fill in blanks for a writer on fundemental and important items, then that is poor writing.

It is just my open that it is lame, don't expect many to share it.

[XPac]

Even if Wolverine doesn't personally care about his public image, it's nonetheless an important issue. Wolvie is a very public member of the X-Men... he's on every freaking team for god's sake. If he's viewed as a menace, he'll contribute setting back the public image of mutants because he's so visiable.

Mutants are trying to show that they're not all public menaces... if Wolvie's image is tarnished the image of the X-Men are tarnished, and the public image of mutants in general go down. There's a domino effect here that even Wolvie is savy enough to recognize. If mutants want acceptance and equality in society, they need to be perceived publically in a favorable light. And that's something Logan does care about, even if he doesn't give a dam about what people think of him personally.

[BlackKnight]

Even if Wolverine doesn't personally care about his public image, it's nonetheless an important issue. Wolvie is a very public member of the X-Men... he's on every freaking team for god's sake. If he's viewed as a menace, he'll contribute setting back the public image of mutants because he's so visiable.

Mutants are trying to show that they're not all public menaces... if Wolvie's image is tarnished the image of the X-Men are tarnished, and the public image of mutants in general go down. There's a domino effect here that even Wolvie is savy enough to recognize. If mutants want acceptance and equality in society, they need to be perceived publically in a favorable light. And that's something Logan does care about, even if he doesn't give a dam about what people think of him personally.

Wow, you obviously put a lot of thought into that, thanks for doing Bendis's job for him.
I am not saying you are wrong, but it is so glossed over by Bendis that we really just don't know. Unless you make it up in your own head.

[XPac]

Wow, you obviously put a lot of thought into that, thanks for doing Bendis's job for him.

I actually got the idea from Bendis in House of M. Emma said that if it was publically revealed that Scarlet Witch, a mutant, was responsible for the deaths of so many Avengers mutant relations would be set back to the stone age. I'd assume the same would apply to Logan and every other high profile mutant.

[BlackKnight]

I actually got the idea from Bendis in House of M. Emma said that if it was publically revealed that Scarlet Witch, a mutant, was responsible for the deaths of so many Avengers mutant relations would be set back to the stone age. I'd assume the same would apply to Logan and every other high profile mutant.

And once again we go back to having the fans assume or make up ideas to fill in a gap in a fundemental and very important story point.

I am not saying your wrong, I am just saying it is poor writting.

and before someone says I want everything spelled out for me. WRONG... I just feel that major story points need to have solid clear points, it fundemental of good writing.

PS.
Apparently todays word is Fundemental. LOL

[pureclint]

In continuation with the redemption theme, in issue 10 when they invite the Sentry to join some one (I think it was Tony) says something to the effect of " A lof of people have joined for redemption" and both Wolverine and Luke Cage were shown. So by no means has that theme been dropped.

I also think the "shine" of working with Captain America helped push Wolverine. They might not see eye to eye but Wolverine sure as hell respects him. And just like he is to every other Marvel Hero, Cap is the standard.

Tony mentioned Cap would help make Wolverine a better man/hero in his recruitment speech as well. And a core element of Wolverine is the constant struggle to be a good man, who better to watch over you then Captain America?

[XPac]

In continuation with the redemption theme, in issue 10 when they invite the Sentry to join some one (I think it was Tony) says something to the effect of " A lof of people have joined for redemption" and both Wolverine and Luke Cage were shown. So by no means has that theme been dropped.



Hmmm... does Cage need redemption for something?

[StoneGold]

Hmmm... does Cage need redemption for something?
Cage has basically been redeeming himself since he was first introduced. That said, Cage is more along the lines like Spider-Man, the character that sort of exists on more of the fringe of the MU that is trying to take more responsibility within the hero community. Goes with having the kid and all.

[sandy1978]

I am new to the board read the first post in this section and I agree. I have been reading comics since Uncanny X-men 251(Wolverine hanging on the X cover) and over the years Wolverine never cared about his image never made any mention of money. I always assumed he had money since he was one of the X-men who seemed to have a life outside the mansion(you need money to drink and Wolvie loves to drink) I for one really tire of Wolverine in every book week after week. There are other characters that would do what he does if they had too. I always liked to read Avengers because you were always exposed to different characters.

BRING BACK JUBLIEE and make her cool again like she used to be not the wimp she is now.

[Alan2099]

I didn't think Enemy of the State was a bad storyline, but the fallout should have worked differently. Having Wolverine on the Avengers would have worked much better if it had been Nick Fury's idea or Wolverine's idea himself. Also, if he's so ashamed of what he did, they need to take him out of the X-books for a while. They did it when he lost his adamantium, I don't see why they can't now.

[BlackKnight]

I didn't think Enemy of the State was a bad storyline, but the fallout should have worked differently. Having Wolverine on the Avengers would have worked much better if it had been Nick Fury's idea or Wolverine's idea himself. Also, if he's so ashamed of what he did, they need to take him out of the X-books for a while. They did it when he lost his adamantium, I don't see why they can't now.

I agree, I always thought the only way that it made sense for Wolverine to be on the team was if Nick Fury felt the Avengers could keep an eye on him because of Enemy of the State. Of course we got favor from Iron Man and his rep... Riiight...

Also he will never leave the X-books, because its all about sales and wolverine equals sales. I mean he is once again in X-Men, Uncanny and Astonishing, plus his own title and NA. That is 5 on goings a month..
Marvel: the House of Wolverine.

[StoneGold]

I didn't think Enemy of the State was a bad storyline, but the fallout should have worked differently. Having Wolverine on the Avengers would have worked much better if it had been Nick Fury's idea .
Except Nick Fury has been MIA since NA started.

[BlackKnight]

Except Nick Fury has been MIA since NA started.

Why we still don't know, since he is appearing over in the Captain America comic. Makes no sense what so ever.

Sometimes I think Bendis is just operating in his own little world regarding continuum in Marvel.

[Jake V]

Why we still don't know, since he is appearing over in the Captain America comic. Makes no sense what so ever.

Sometimes I think Bendis is just operating in his own little world regarding continuum in Marvel.
The current Captain America arc takes place about 4-6 months before New Avengers begins.

[Titan Slade]

Also he will never leave the X-books, because its all about sales and wolverine equals sales. I mean he is once again in X-Men, Uncanny and Astonishing, plus his own title and NA. That is 5 on goings a month..
Marvel: the House of Wolverine.

90% of Marvel's characters are crappy, so he should be in more books to make them less crappy. The more Wolverine the better :D .

[BlackKnight]

The current Captain America arc takes place about 4-6 months before New Avengers begins.

Like I said NA and Bendis seem to be in his own little continuum.

And once again we still don't know what happened to Fury..

Yet another plot line left hanging for months and months.

[StoneGold]

Like I said NA and Bendis seem to be in his own little continuum.

And once again we still don't know what happened to Fury..

Yet another plot line left hanging for months and months.
Yeah, just like how Thor would be in Avengers, but over in Journey into Mystery he'd be off in Asgard and space for months at a time. That Stan Lee, off in his own little continuum.

[Jake V]

Like I said NA and Bendis seem to be in his own little continuum.

And once again we still don't know what happened to Fury..

Yet another plot line left hanging for months and months.
And the problem with that is what? So it is left unresolved for a while, so what?

People will wait years for plots to be resolved on tv shows, why should comics be any different?

[BlackKnight]

And the problem with that is what? So it is left unresolved for a while, so what?

People will wait years for plots to be resolved on tv shows, why should comics be any different?

LOL this is so funny, yep lets use a tv show that is weekly and then takes several months off to explain why months and months of important plots are left hanging in a monthly comic.

As for what the problem is, well it is a major plot that is effecting books, maybe it should at least be address if not handled. Guess this goes back to the I don't care if sub-plots are ever handled that you think is ok in NA...

[StoneGold]

LOL this is so funny, yep lets use a tv show that is weekly and then takes several months off to explain why months and months of important plots are left hanging in a monthly comic.

As for what the problem is, well it is a major plot that is effecting books, maybe it should at least be address if not handled. Guess this goes back to the I don't care if sub-plots are ever handled that you think is ok in NA...
X-Files took years before coming close to explaining any of the mysteries it set up. It's the second season of Lost, and most of the stuff from the first episode still hasn't been explained. And we still don't know what the Venus Butterfly is, and LA Law has been cancelled for years.

[Kirk G]

X-Files took years before coming close to explaining any of the mysteries it set up. It's the second season of Lost, and most of the stuff from the first episode still hasn't been explained. And we still don't know what the Venus Butterfly is, and LA Law has been cancelled for years.
Uh, actually, concenting adults have known what the Venus Butterfly is FOR YEARS...
Get any good recent sex manual and all will be explained...
(It doesn't take much imagination, kids...)

[StoneGold]

Uh, actually, concenting adults have known what the Venus Butterfly is FOR YEARS...
Get any good recent sex manual and all will be explained...
(It doesn't take much imagination, kids...)
Are you sure? Because when they ran the True Hollywood Story on LA Law, they said Bochco just made it up.

OK, sub that for what Dr. Klaw looked like. Makes it all relevant, what with Don Adams dying.

[Kirk G]

Are you sure? Because when they ran the True Hollywood Story on LA Law, they said Bochco just made it up.

OK, sub that for what Dr. Klaw looked like. Makes it all relevant, what with Don Adams dying.
I'M SURE!
Bochco may have coined the term, but the technique has been around for hundreds of years...
and now, a specific behavior has come to be known as the "venus butterfly"...and any number of sex books will describe how they "do it"....
[C'mon....use your imagination, guys!!!]

[Will.S]

While Brian Bendis's reason for inserting Logan into the team isn't exactly perfect, it's a reasonable way of going about it.

As for Nick Fury's absense, his last appearances were in Wolverine's last arc Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., Captain America and in Secret War. I have a feeling that maybe Secret War is one of the reasons why he's absent and not running S.H.I.E.L.D. since that was bound to have repercussions. It's also possible that it's something more NA related though too.

[Alan2099]

Wasn't he really badly injured in the Enemy of the State arc? he might not be in condition to run SHIELD and could be takeing medical leave or something.

[stormygirl]

:rolleyes: my husband is the xmen fan but from what i know about wolverine is that i cant see him buying his way or being bribed to leave xmen to go to the avengers...xmen would not be the same.....he is my most favorite character and i am not that up on his past excursions...so bear with me as i go to my very own special and thank god an xmen expert to help me to keep from falling on my face will this do for a reply since this is my first reply so treat me as an apprentice........

[Will.S]

What I also find cool is that Wolverine is playing in a bigger league team, just like Spider-Man, Luke Cage and Spider-Woman.

To his credit though, he has fought with the X-Men among some of the best villains so I'm interested to see his approach to the Avengers villains and new villains.

[BlackKnight]

X-Files took years before coming close to explaining any of the mysteries it set up. It's the second season of Lost, and most of the stuff from the first episode still hasn't been explained. And we still don't know what the Venus Butterfly is, and LA Law has been cancelled for years.

X-Files did take a long time, your right, of course they were always building on it at least in one episode a month, which would be the equal of a monthly comic. If you don't build on sub-plots they tend to disappear or get forgotten. The Spider-Woman traitor sub-plot being droped from issue 3 to issue 14 is an example. I am not saying they need to rap up the sub-plot immeditly I am saying they need to references more then once a year. (Much like simonsons Thor:Surter Saga). The same holds true for the Shield sub-plot. This is just my opinion based on my 25 years of reading comics and what seemed to work and not work for me..

[StoneGold]

X-Files did take a long time, your right, of course they were always building on it at least in one episode a month, which would be the equal of a monthly comic. If you don't build on sub-plots they tend to disappear or get forgotten. The Spider-Woman traitor sub-plot being droped from issue 3 to issue 14 is an example. ..
Which you've brought up and been refuted on before. It's been brought up since, with Black Widow in the hospital. And I find it amazing that you have this knowledge that it won't be touched on again sometime in the next three issues that aren't out yet.

[BlackKnight]

Which you've brought up and been refuted on before. It's been brought up since, with Black Widow in the hospital. And I find it amazing that you have this knowledge that it won't be touched on again sometime in the next three issues that aren't out yet.

Its not so amazing since it is the Ronin arc and the chances are it won't.. but your right it might be touched on in issue 12.

Sorry when was this refuted.. Oh right it wasn't. :rolleyes:

[StoneGold]

Its not so amazing since it is the Ronin arc and the chances are it won't.. but your right it might be touched on in issue 12.

Sorry when was this refuted.. Oh right it wasn't. :rolleyes:
Not in this thread, but I've seen it brought up to you in other threads. If you chose to ignore them, that's your deal.

[BlackKnight]

Not in this thread, but I've seen it brought up to you in other threads. If you chose to ignore them, that's your deal.

I am done, you make up stuff that I say, you make up stuff from other threads. There is zero point in having a discussion with you, because you are a right fighter, no matter what is said to you, you believe yourself to be right.
There is no point in fighting with someone like that, unless someone enjoys hitting there head against a brick wall.

Enjoy your idea that anything I have said has been refuted.

[StoneGold]

I am done, you make up stuff that I say, you make up stuff from other threads. There is zero point in having a discussion with you, because you are a right fighter, no matter what is said to you, you believe yourself to be right.
There is no point in fighting with someone like that, unless someone enjoys hitting there head against a brick wall.

Enjoy your idea that anything I have said has been refuted.
Excuse me, where have I made up anything that you said?

[BlackKnight]

Excuse me, where have I made up anything that you said?

Many times in other threads, you have said that I said something that I have not said or you twist what I say so that means something totally different.

I don't care if you realize it. This is a typical tatic of right fighters, when what someone says does not match their world they change in there minds what is said.
I have a father-in-law like this, made me an expert on the subject.

This is not an insult just how I view how you think from my dealings with you. Therefore it makes it pointless to argue with you, and on that note I will simple put you on ignore.
Thanks for your time. :D

[StoneGold]

Many times in other threads, you have said that I said something that I have not said or you twist what I say so that means something totally different.

OK, either you're trying to be ironic here, or you're just being hypocritical, one of the two. You realize you just did literally the exact same thing you accused me of.

[Kirk G]

:rolleyes: my husband is the xmen fan but from what i know about wolverine is that i cant see him buying his way or being bribed to leave xmen to go to the avengers...xmen would not be the same.....he is my most favorite character and i am not that up on his past excursions...so bear with me as i go to my very own special and thank god an xmen expert to help me to keep from falling on my face will this do for a reply since this is my first reply so treat me as an apprentice........
Welcome Stormygirl!

We're all friends here.
Some will get more worked up and spirited than others, but we try to have a good sense of humor.

You'll find most people try to keep their answers short, and use a blank line between thoughts like a paragraph. Unfortunately, there is no spell check here, and so some of my mis-spelling makes it through on line till someone calls me on it! :D
I do find the use of capitals in posts help make it more readible, but try to avoid using all caps... cause it feels like the poster is shouting!

Otherwise, welcome...jump in... the water is fine! :rolleyes:

[mickeygirl]

x-men rule!

[Wolverine221]

Dont think anyone mentioned this, but what bothers me is that Wolverine, in any book that recently comes to mind, he has become a punching bag. I dont see him doing much but taking damage and then showing up at the end. Everyone beats him recently. Marvel knights spiderma - Spiderman beats the crap out of him. New Avengers 5 - Spiderwoman jabs his claw into his throat. New Avengers #6- captain america slams him with the shield. During the Enemy of the state run, he got beat up by everyone and finally got to Northstar (big accomplishment). House of M - hawkeye shoots arrows in his throat. In Marvel-Team up arc, the villian (cant remember his name) even mentions "you have spread yourself out too much and now you are blah blah" basically saying he is all over the place and burnt himself out. Its basically taking away the wolverine is dangerous theory. I mean everyone is giving him a beating and it seems like that is all he is there for.

[Beast]

Dont think anyone mentioned this, but what bothers me is that Wolverine, in any book that recently comes to mind, he has become a punching bag. I dont see him doing much but taking damage and then showing up at the end. Everyone beats him recently. Marvel knights spiderma - Spiderman beats the crap out of him. New Avengers 5 - Spiderwoman jabs his claw into his throat. New Avengers #6- captain america slams him with the shield. During the Enemy of the state run, he got beat up by everyone and finally got to Northstar (big accomplishment). House of M - hawkeye shoots arrows in his throat. In Marvel-Team up arc, the villian (cant remember his name) even mentions "you have spread yourself out too much and now you are blah blah" basically saying he is all over the place and burnt himself out. Its basically taking away the wolverine is dangerous theory. I mean everyone is giving him a beating and it seems like that is all he is there for.
Logan's purpose from almost the beginning was to routinely get his ass kicked by everyone. But that just gave him a chance to heal and come back when he was needed. I don't get why so many people complain about people using Logan as he's always been used. It wasn't his mutant powers or claws that made him interesting. It was the fact that he'd never give up, which is why his healing factor works so well with his attitude. :)

[Wolverine221]

Yeah that is true, but when have you seen him come back in any of those instances. Its like he takes a beating and then......thats it. Before he would come back harder, etc. Now its just knock him down and then thats it.

[Red State Cap]

I'd like to correct something I saw early in this thread. Yes, it it probably true that Wolverine did not receive money from Tony Stark, which would obviously be in conflict with Stark's stand about not paying the New Avengers beyond room and board. However, it is clear that Stark offered a good or a service, and no doubt a very expensive good or service. This requires money to buy, so even if Stark isn't actually offering cash for Wolverine's services, he is offering a cash equivalent good or service.
A bribe does not have to be cash. A bribe can just as easily be goods or services. Therefore, whether you like it or not from a standpoint of Mr. Bendis' writing of both Stark's and Wolverine's characters, Wolverine was in fact offered and accepted payment (a bribe in "Wolverine's" words) for his services as an Avenger.
I'd also like to point out that Mr. Bendis has already been wildly inconsistent; saying in "Old Avengers" that Stark was too broke to fund the team, and then in NA he's rich enough to afford to have a multi-billion-dollar office building sit empty, to bribe Wolverine, to supply Quinjets, etc.

RSC

[Jake V]

I'd like to correct something I saw early in this thread. Yes, it it probably true that Wolverine did not receive money from Tony Stark, which would obviously be in conflict with Stark's stand about not paying the New Avengers beyond room and board. However, it is clear that Stark offered a good or a service, and no doubt a very expensive good or service. This requires money to buy, so even if Stark isn't actually offering cash for Wolverine's services, he is offering a cash equivalent good or service.
A bribe does not have to be cash. A bribe can just as easily be goods or services. Therefore, whether you like it or not from a standpoint of Mr. Bendis' writing of both Stark's and Wolverine's characters, Wolverine was in fact offered and accepted payment (a bribe in "Wolverine's" words) for his services as an Avenger.
I'd also like to point out that Mr. Bendis has already been wildly inconsistent; saying in "Old Avengers" that Stark was too broke to fund the team, and then in NA he's rich enough to afford to have a multi-billion-dollar office building sit empty, to bribe Wolverine, to supply Quinjets, etc.

RSC
The comics explained the Quinjet as a model he had comissioned before the Avengers broke up, same with Stark Tower. You're just assuming that whatever he offered Wolverine was of high monetary value. For all we know it could be neverending beer, a box of cuban cigars, or Starks little black book. Knowing Bendis, it probably is something mundane and humorous like that.

[BlackKnight]

The comics explained the Quinjet as a model he had comissioned before the Avengers broke up, same with Stark Tower. You're just assuming that whatever he offered Wolverine was of high monetary value. For all we know it could be neverending beer, a box of cuban cigars, or Starks little black book. Knowing Bendis, it probably is something mundane and humorous like that.


Don't you mean knowing Bendis it will be something Trivial and juvinile. (Joking).

[Jake V]

Don't you mean knowing Bendis it will be something Trivial and juvinile. (Joking).
Po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe.

:)

[BlackKnight]

Po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe.

:)

You see correcting a typo is not funny.. Although it is Juvenile. :D

[ColdFury]

You see correcting a typo is not funny.. Although it is Juvenile. :D

You know... you don't like New Avengers. I get it.

We all get it.

Consider it got.

Could you please cut back on the amount of spewing hatred is coming forth from you in regard to Bendis' work?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not his biggest fan. I enjoy New Avengers, but I think its slow, and generally speaking it is (as is House of M and Avengers Disassembled) predictable. In my book he ranks as 'passable'.

But you hijack any conversation you want into explaining how Bendis did a horrible job with this and with that... it's... frustrating.

Also, going back into the earlier mention here, you went off on how fans have to 'figure out' Wolverine's reasoning.

First off, I have a few dramatic friends I'd like you to meet. They're Mr. Subplot, Mr. Foreshadowing, & Ms. Running Gag.

They'd like me to tell you that sometimes, things happen, and they actually get explained later. It comes with the genre.

Secondly, sometimes, I personally find it enjoyable to be given *parts* of the puzzle. Sure, there're some things that beg to be explained... but Wolverine joining the Avengers? Those are all pretty good explanations I've read up here. It makes sense with his character and... (*gasp* Writers in Marvel don't do this?!? Never!) continuity. In writing it's called 'Showing' instead of 'Telling'. Sometimes the story hints at things for the reader to figure out, so that they can exercise their brains and immerse themselves in the story.

And finally, I'd like to point out that this could be intended as what they call an 'easter egg'. One of those things that is acceptable enough if you're just an Avengers reader, but if you keep up with continuity, you know exactly why Wolverine would be joining the Avengers... as a redemption arc. Things that don't detract from the story by not being there, but add to it as a function of being known to someone who reads or is at least aware of other plotlines.

I mean, seriously, I know you don't like Bendis. You probably have a dartboard somewhere with Bendis' face pegged to it somewhere. That's fine, you're entitled. Could you just turn the dial back on the public venom a couple of notches? It really makes me dread seeing your name in a thread.

[Red State Cap]

The comics explained the Quinjet as a model he had comissioned before the Avengers broke up, same with Stark Tower. You're just assuming that whatever he offered Wolverine was of high monetary value. For all we know it could be neverending beer, a box of cuban cigars, or Starks little black book. Knowing Bendis, it probably is something mundane and humorous like that.
First, the "Prototype Quinjet" was blown up in the Savage Land. Then, despite Stark supposedly being too poor to supply Quinjets, they suddenly got another one for the Wrecker fight. Then Wrecker puts Cage through the wing, though it still appears to be flyable. Guess that damage was either repaired or the Quinjet replaced yet again by Stark, who is still "too poor" to afford them. Wanna put any bets on how many more "prototype QJs" they go through over the rest of Mr. Bendis' tenure?
Second, Stark Tower is an office highrise built (whatever the cost of the land) at titannic expense, and designed to house paying tentants. No tenants = no revenue. No revenue = bankrupt Tony Stark. Yet Tony Stark is curiously unconcerned by the issue of a multi-billion dollar asset becoming a multi-billion dollar money drain, given the fact that he was supposed to be too broke to rebuild the three-story Avengers Mansion to start with! :rolleyes:
Third -- sure, the bribe could be some inexpensive gag. It's also possible that it is not.

RSC

[ColdFury]

First, the "Prototype Quinjet" was blown up in the Savage Land. Then, despite Stark supposedly being too poor to supply Quinjets, they suddenly got another one for the Wrecker fight. Then Wrecker puts Cage through the wing, though it still appears to be flyable. Guess that damage was either repaired or the Quinjet replaced yet again by Stark, who is still "too poor" to afford them. Wanna put any bets on how many more "prototype QJs" they go through over the rest of Mr. Bendis' tenure?
Second, Stark Tower is an office highrise built (whatever the cost of the land) at titannic expense, and designed to house paying tentants. No tenants = no revenue. No revenue = bankrupt Tony Stark. Yet Tony Stark is curiously unconcerned by the issue of a multi-billion dollar asset becoming a multi-billion dollar money drain, given the fact that he was supposed to be too broke to rebuild the three-story Avengers Mansion to start with! :rolleyes:
Third -- sure, the bribe could be some inexpensive gag. It's also possible that it is not.

RSC

He said he had three Quinjets. Now...they're very quickly approaching that number with the downed Quinjet #2 in Thunderbolts #13, so we have to assume that Tony's at least paying for their upkeep.

The rest... eh. Maybe the reason Tony can't fund the team is beause of his multi-billion dollar asset drain?

And does anyone REALLY want to read Tony Stark: Dead Broke ? (Granted it'd be better than Iron Man: Extremis - The Arc That Never Is In the Shops) I don't. So why not just accept everything at face value and stop questioning it to death?

Do we need to see an accounting spreadsheet for everyone to accept the fact that he already built Stark Tower, can afford to remain affloat, yet can't fund the Avengers? :p

[Red State Cap]

He said he had three Quinjets. Now...they're very quickly approaching that number with the downed Quinjet #2 in Thunderbolts #13, so we have to assume that Tony's at least paying for their upkeep.
Didn't know about the T-Bolts one. The NA have now gone through 2 destroyed and one damaged out of 3. Guess Stark isn't so broke after all, eh?

The rest... eh. Maybe the reason Tony can't fund the team is beause of his multi-billion dollar asset drain?
Hmmm. Solution: Sell the asset drain (Stark Tower) and rebuild Avengers Mansion at one ten-thousandth of the cost. Re-invest the rest of the proceeds in Stark Industries. But NO, that would actually make sense.

And does anyone REALLY want to read Tony Stark: Dead Broke ? (Granted it'd be better than Iron Man: Extremis - The Arc That Never Is In the Shops) I don't. So why not just accept everything at face value and stop questioning it to death?
I don't want to read about "Broke Tony Stark." Therefore, it should be quite obvious that Mr. Bendis should not write a story first on the basis of Tony Stark being broke, and then immediately turn around and say that Stark is NOT broke. It's pretty damn simple.

Do we need to see an accounting spreadsheet for everyone to accept the fact that he already built Stark Tower, can afford to remain affloat, yet can't fund the Avengers? :p
Do I need to see it? Hell no. On the other hand, how is it justifiable that Mr. Bendis uses that same "reason" as an excuse to wipe out the old Avengers organization to give himself a clean slate?

RSC

[Smarty Jones]

Even though readers have been shown HOW Wolverine became an Avenger, the WHY part is not compelling or convincing. Outside of being one of Brian Michael Bendis' pets and being the ubiquitous mascot of Marvel, Logan really serves no purpose. He duplicates in some respects what Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Luke Cage, Captain America and Ronin bring to the table (another physical character) and ... he just adds nothing.

What makes it even more exasperating is that Wolverine is a member of The X-Men and has played a role in all the various teams' adventures at some point. At one point, he was in all THREE X-teams AT THE SAME TIME. It's beyond suspension of belief that he can be at the Xavier Insititute, in outer space and in another country AT THE SAME TIME be holed up in Madripoor in his own book AND BTW hanging out with The Avengers.

Instead of letting another character branch out (thanks to Marvel's implied "all mutants should be in X-books" mantra), readers are subjected to YET another Wolverine appearance that should be logistically impossible.

[tricksterpup]

Thats just it, the reasons given for Wolverine joining the team in my opinion were lame and poorly tought out. A favor from Tony and better rep. LOL, give me a break. But hey if you some people want to swallow that clap trap, your welcome to it.
See I always thought he was being paid in Beer and Cigars to join the Avengers. I would assume that his bonus was a bottle of wild turkey tossed in.

[BlackKnight]

See I always thought he was being paid in Beer and Cigars to join the Avengers. I would assume that his bonus was a bottle of wild turkey tossed in.

LOL, man that would be funny and in charater with Wolverine..

I could just see that.

Iron Man: Logan we need you to join the Avengers, to do the things that we can't or won't.

Wolverine: I am already a part of the X-Men Bub.

Iron Man: We will throw in all the beer and cigars you want.

Wolverine: Throw in a bottle of Wild Turkey and I am yours.

Iron Man: Done.

classic

[marshal99]

I can't imagine his schedule

Monday - lone adventures without the x-men and avengers
Tuesday - hang out with them astonishing x-dweebs
Wednesday - hang out with that old bag and them avengers dweebs
Thursday - hang out with any superhero that needs wolverine on their cover
Friday - hang out with the uncanny x-chicks , boy that rachel looks like her mommy , gonna bang her before her 21st birthday
Saturday - go check with fantastic four whether they have a opening for me , i got a free saturday and fantastic four is one team i haven't been on
Sunday - off day