Luthor vs. Batman, Joker vs. Superman: What if..

[Arkham Resident]

What if..

Luthor is Batman's nemesis. Joker torments Superman.. How would you think they'll measure up as villains against the World's Finest?Was there any instances in comics where this set-up happened? Personally i think The Joker will not last long if Supes gets to him physically, but Luthor with his wealth might be more successful against Batman.

Spare me some time on this and fire away with your opinions, guys!!!

[Viking Bastard]

Done a couple of times.

I mean, Luthor was the Big Bad in the latter half of No Man's Land.

[PrimalScream]

luthor always seemed more a bat villain 2 me.

[Uatu]

I think Joker would last longer against Supes mainly because Superman knows how powerful he is, and knows that he has to go easy on humans. I doubt his strict morale code would allow him to pound Joker like Bats does.

[Smallville]

Well, Batman may not have as much trouble against Luthor's Wealth considering Bruce Wayne has more money then Luthor does. :p

I don't know about in the Comics, but in the Batman-Superman Movie from 1998, Luthor hired the Joker to take out Superman with Kryptonite... so in that movie it was Luthor/Joker vs. Batman/Superman.

[mohammedali]

luthor always seemed more a bat villain 2 me.
I agree. There would be nothing cooler than seeing 2 billionaires going head to head due to hidden agendas. I really liked Lex Luthor: Man of Steel, where it shows Lex meeting Bruce. You could really have some fun with having Lex and Bruce trying to get rid of Batman on a truce, only Lex doesn't know that Bruce is Batman and is just playing Lex alone for his own gain. Could be a cool arc in S/B. Pitch it to DC :)

Mohammed Ali

[Guts/Batman]

I loved Luthor's role in NML. Shows how dangerous he could be if he ever decided to go after Batman instead of Superman.

Personally, I think that it is best that Lex Luthor is primarily Superman's main villain and Batman being auxillery.

A properly written Joker scares the hell out of everyone in DCU. And they should be just as scared of him as they should be of Batman.

[Chad G.]

[QUOTE=Guts/Batman]I loved Luthor's role in NML. Shows how dangerous he could be if he ever decided to go after Batman instead of Superman.
[QUOTE]

Oh, he would be positively frightening. :cool:

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Bruce manipulate Luthor into squeezing the governement into re-opening Gotham. And THEN trick him into pumping a load of money into the city's rebuilding effort. And THEN essentially toss him out of town on his keister with the deed trick. That' scary.

And I think Bats also tossed Lex around his tent a couple of times after smacking Mercy down.

Luthor came out of that story looking like a bumbling twit who got outmanuvered by another businessman.

[ScottDMSimmons]

Joker made a big appearance throughout the Superman titles in a storyarc called EMPEROR JOKER, where he was able to alter reality by manipulating Mxy. The arc introduced the current version of Bizarro, and also Blaze (later Martian Manhunter's girlfriend), and Ignition. The story included Steel, Superboy, and Supergirl (PAD version).

I recall one moment where (late arrival) Batman was turned into a dog, resembling the classic version of Ace the BatHound. The biggest moment is probably at the end, when Superman makes a big sacrifice for Batman.

--Scott

[Guts/Batman]

I didn't think he tricked him into pumping money into the system. He needed him to. Anyways, he figured out what Luthor's plan was, that is far from manipulation of Luthor.

He countered his plan both as Batman and as Bruce Wayne. I don't think there was any manipulation at all. He just let Luthor go about his plan as he Luthor planned. If you wanna call that manipulation, that's cool, I just don't think it is.

But yes, his welcome of Lex was classic "Do you plan on looming at me all night?"

[Lord Grog]

Bats went up against Lex in the "Rock of Ages" storyline (I think) in JLA.

Joker isn't much of a Superman threat normally (i.e. without Kryptonite or 5th dimension "superpowers"), but he could still make his life a living hell if he wished. How funny would it be to the Joker to target Lois, the chick he keeps saving?

[Guts/Batman]

Bats went up against Lex in the "Rock of Ages" storyline (I think) in JLA.

Joker isn't much of a Superman threat normally (i.e. without Kryptonite or 5th dimension "superpowers"), but he could still make his life a living hell if he wished. How funny would it be to the Joker to target Lois, the chick he keeps saving?

The Joker killed Lois in Kingdom Come. The Magog killed the Joker and got acquitted of the crime and then Superman "retired."

Yes Batman went up against Lex in Rock of Ages and "defeated" Lex's attempted corporate takeover of the JLA.

[Lord Grog]

I totally forgot that was how Lois died in KC. Or perhaps it was in the back of my mind somewhere and I didn't realize it. In any case, that's entirely plausible with the Joker.

LG

[Amethyst Rose]

ANOTHER reason that freak needs to be offed. But Superman won't kill either. Hey, has Joker ever messed with Diana?

[Guts/Batman]

ANOTHER reason that freak needs to be offed. But Superman won't kill either. Hey, has Joker ever messed with Diana?

I saw a cover of WW in the early 200's where Joker was wearing Diana's bracelets. I think that was in "The Last Laugh" story line. But I don't see how he could do anything to her unless she got PC Superboy/man's strength and dickery.

And I don't want him to be offed... :D :evilsmile

[dougiemccoy]

Well, Batman may not have as much trouble against Luthor's Wealth considering Bruce Wayne has more money then Luthor does. :p

I don't know about in the Comics, but in the Batman-Superman Movie from 1998, Luthor hired the Joker to take out Superman with Kryptonite... so in that movie it was Luthor/Joker vs. Batman/Superman.


This was done really well, and there was time on JLU where Lex hires a bunch of DC villans and the Joker crashes the party that one was fun...

and in Superman 9 The Joker takes on Supes thinking he would easyer to mess with than Batman because he wasn't as smart as Bats...one of the best John Byrne Superman storys.

[Arkham Resident]

I totally forgot that was how Lois died in KC. Or perhaps it was in the back of my mind somewhere and I didn't realize it. In any case, that's entirely plausible with the Joker.

LG


You'd easily forget it because in KC it was just mentioned as the reason why Magog executed the Joker. Superman didnt agree with Magog on this claiming that Joker should go to trial and the due process of law. What a boyscout, eh? :rolleyes:

[Guts/Batman]

Well, he had said that for almost every other criminal. He has to give the Joker the same leeway as to no be fair to everyone (even though they don't deserve it). You know the whole, sink to their level stuff.

[justcrash]

Joker made a big appearance throughout the Superman titles in a storyarc called EMPEROR JOKER, where he was able to alter reality by manipulating Mxy. The arc introduced the current version of Bizarro, and also Blaze (later Martian Manhunter's girlfriend), and Ignition. The story included Steel, Superboy, and Supergirl (PAD version).

I recall one moment where (late arrival) Batman was turned into a dog, resembling the classic version of Ace the BatHound. The biggest moment is probably at the end, when Superman makes a big sacrifice for Batman.

--Scott
Is this story collected anywhere?

[Ms. M]

An interesting point about that story was that the "big sacrifice" Superman makes for Batman involves something of a mind wipe initiated by Superman, though it was done for a more benevolent purpose than the one introduced in Identity Crisis. I recall reading in this forum that Batman actually did find out about it and was somewhat upset, but ultimately understanding.

Joker against Wonder Woman would be kind of interesting, though I think he would be smart enough to stay out of her way!

[Guts/Batman]

Joker against Wonder Woman would be kind of interesting, though I think he would be smart enough to stay out of her way!

I can see him Jokerizing the population of her country (I don't wanna spell it out). That would be so freakin awesome to see Batman defend Joker from Diana trying to kill Joker. While the Joker laughs his ass off. :D

But without a plot device, he should go anywhere near her.

[marshal99]

Joker has went up against superman a couple of times already , even as early as during the first year Byrne revamp.

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/83756635410.9.gif

Luthor has gone against batman many times in the past in pre-crisis , usually involving superman , and have always claimed to have killed batman.
http://www.ausreprints.com/covers/m/1545.jpg
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/01062288700.466.gif

[Arkham Resident]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/83756635410.9.gif



This looks cool. What's the story about?

[mwm1331]

Personally I think that the joker would be far more of a challenge to superman than Lex would be to bruce.
Superman's problem with lex has almost always been that (up untill recently) he knows Lex is evil, but noone else does. WHile Clark may be the "man of tomorrow" he isn't excatly famed for his intellect and deductive reasoning.
Bruce on the other hand specialises in gathering evidence. Were lex to come to gothma, I have a feeling he would end up in Prison within a few months. The tricks that keep superman from getiing any evidence just won't work on Bruce.
Now the joker is obviously no physical threat to superman, but then neither is Luthor. However he is completly and utterly insane, and unlike lex, is not driven by predictiabl;e motives such as revenge or profit. He could easily cause chaos on a massive scale, and superman would be so busy saving peoples lives that the joker could quite simply stay out of his way.
All in All when in comes to villians who use thier minds instead of powers Batman always has an advantage over superman,

[OverMaster]

http://ralf-h-comics.de/comics-ww2/096.jpg

http://www.hour.ca/_images/montreal/1306/texte/tdb2_1306.jpg