????DC's Tarzan ????

[Red Oak Kid]

In 1972, DC got the comic book rights to Tarzan. They continued the Gold Key numbering. Last GK ish was 206 and first DC ish was 207.

I was excited about the first few issues with the great Joe Kubert art. But then they began taking old Tarzan newspaper strips with art by Hal Foster and others and cutting and pasting them together with Joe Kubert art. And they began cutting back the Tarzan stories and using non Tarzan backup features(Beyond the Farthest Star)

I've never heard the reasons behind all this. Has anyone ever read any interviews or articles which explained why DC did this?

Was this the plan from the beginning, i.e. start off with some full length Kubert stories and then start reprinting old Tarzan newspaper strips?

Was it simply a matter of Joe Kubert being overworked? Surely they could have anticipated this.

Was it something that the Burroughs estate instigated?

Also I am curious about the DC Tarzan logo. As far as I can tell the logo on DC's first Tarzan(207) was an original design done by a famous DC letterer whose name escapes me at the moment.

But I noticed when the rights to Tarzan went over to Marvel, so did this DC logo. Does everything relating to Tarzan that is drawn, including the logo, belong to the Burroughs estate and not DC comics?

Thanks

[Captain Jim]

Does everything relating to Tarzan that is drawn, including the logo, belong to the Burroughs estate and not DC comics?

That's pretty typical for any licensed property...which is why (for instance) Dark Horse could reprint Marvel Star Wars comics.

[InfoBroker]

I had the feeling right from the get go that they wanted to include Hogarth, Foster and even Manning reprints of the newspaper strips between the Kubert material. Espcially since in the planning stages, DC was still 52 pagers with 10-14 pages of reprints in most issues.

I wasn't wild about the cropping and the inconsistant reduction sizes on various panels, but I enjoyed seeing marterial that until that time I had only seen glimpses of in the few comic history books that were avaiiable in that time frame. (History of the Comic Strip and Penguin Book of Comics to name a couple)

DC did do some extra trimming on the first Hogarth reprinted issue. They cropped the size of the comic so there wouldn't be quite as much border around the outside of the panels. It was a valiant effort, but I wish instead they had reprinted the strips on the side similar to that John Byrne issue of the Fantastic Four.

I don't think there are any hard or fast rules for reprints rights for licensed material. It depends on how the contracts are drawn up. I'm sure the Burroughs and Howard estates were pretty firm on limiting the printing rights to a specific time frame and very strick on keeping ownership to as much of the material as possible.

The logo was a registered tm at the time, probably owned by the Burroughs estate. I'm thinking Ben Oda or Gaspar Salidano did the comic book version. However, it is not completely original. There are earlier variants of this design including this early candy card set from the 1930s (http://www.erbzine.com/mag1/0174.html)

Brune Hogarth's books from the early 70s also used a similar version. But I think the premiere DC issues predates them by a few months or years.

Here's a website (http://www.erbzine.com/mag2/0235.html) that has a nice collection of various Tazon logo designs.

I get the feeling that Marvel wasn't interested in reprint rights to older material when then gained the Tarzan and John Carter publishing rights. It is curious to note that they had to discontinue the Ka-zar books in that time frame as part of the rights deal with ERB.

I also remember the ERB crew (ERB's daughter anyway) weren't too happy with John Buscema's adaptation of the Jungle Tales of Tarzan, claiming that he was lifting Hogarth's rendering. I loved both versions, and I was dumbfounded at what disturbed them. It was the same source material, stories and characters they were illustrating afterall. There are going to be some similarities.

In fact, that particular annual was the only Tarzan material that Marvel did that I thought was on par with all those glorious Joe Kubert issues.

I am curious about what Dark Horse did to secure the reprint rights to the Marvel Conan comics. Maybe Kurt Busiek can chime in and offer some first hand details.

-jb the always curious ib-

[Arron]

I just have to add that I loved Marvel's version of John Carter.
Anyone know why they lost the rights to it?

[Sir Tim Drake]

Welcome to CBR, Arron. Is that your real first name?

[Roquefort Raider]

I just have to add that I loved Marvel's version of John Carter.
Anyone know why they lost the rights to it?

Welcome, Arron.

My guess is that Warlord of Mars just sold poorly and got cancelled as a result. Marvel had no reason to keep paying for rights to a character that wasn't bringing in enough money.

A pity, too, since I also loved that book. Few titles can brag about a two-year run that included work by Marv Wolfman and Chris Claremont in their prime, Gil Kane, Ernie Colon, Frank Miller, Alan Lee Weiss and Walt Simonson.

I liked the Murphy Anderson John Carter feature that ran in the back of the first DC issues of Tarzan (as well as in Weird worlds but Marvel's version remains my favorite.

[T GUy]

Info is Curious Broker:
I am curious about what Dark Horse did to secure the reprint rights to the Marvel Conan comics.

I imagine that on expiration of the Marvel/REH Estate contract, all rights went to the REH Estate, including future rights to the material produced by Marvel.

I think a lot of licences work this way. I seem to recall that Disney licensed the Western-produced material (e. g. the work of Carl Barks) overseas (it used to turn up in the early-1970s Donald and Mickey, published weekly in the U. K. by I. P. C.). that's not an exactly analogous example, as the contract terms allowed for the licensor to licence material produced by the licensee overseas, whereas when Marvel held the Howard licence, it was presumably worldwide (the U. K. branch of Marvel produced a weekly called The Savage Sword of Conan in the mid-1970s).

[Kurt Busiek]

I am curious about what Dark Horse did to secure the reprint rights to the Marvel Conan comics. Maybe Kurt Busiek can chime in and offer some first hand details.

Not first-hand, since I don't work at Dark Horse and didn't secure those rights.

But what they did was simple -- they licensed those rights from Conan Properties. Just as they licensed the right to reprint the Marvel Star Wars from Lucasfilm, and the right to (watch how I veer back on topic here) reprint the Kubert Tarzan from ERB Inc.

kdb

[berk]

Welcome, Arron.

My guess is that Warlord of Mars just sold poorly and got cancelled as a result. Marvel had no reason to keep paying for rights to a character that wasn't bringing in enough money.

A pity, too, since I also loved that book. Few titles can brag about a two-year run that included work by Marv Wolfman and Chris Claremont in their prime, Gil Kane, Ernie Colon, Frank Miller, Alan Lee Weiss and Walt Simonson.

I liked the Murphy Anderson John Carter feature that ran in the back of the first DC issues of Tarzan (as well as in Weird worlds but Marvel's version remains my favorite. Funny, Marvel's version of John Carter never clicked with me. I rmember disliking the art in the isssues I had. IIRC it was Gil Kane with Rudy Nebres doing the inks, and the two styles didn't mesh well at all IMO. Kane on his own would have been interesting. Not sure who I'd want to see doing a John Carter or Tarzan or other ERB series now ...

[Karl J. Barnes]

Funny, Marvel's version of John Carter never clicked with me. I rmember disliking the art in the isssues I had. IIRC it was Gil Kane with Rudy Nebres doing the inks, and the two styles didn't mesh well at all IMO. Kane on his own would have been interesting. Not sure who I'd want to see doing a John Carter or Tarzan or other ERB series now ...

Kurt Buisek and Carlos Pacheo would be an interesting choice for doing John Carter. I love the way Pacheo does his futuristic images.

[Arron]

Welcome to CBR, Arron. Is that your real first name?


Yeah, guess I should have used a moniker :D

[InfoBroker]

A follow up question to Kurt, if I may;

Do you know if the creator's are receiving any type of reprint payments? I hope they are and hopefully you in the future will see them as well.


Kurt and Carlos on JC. would be interesting, but I'd rather see more Arrowsmith please.

-jb the greedy ib-

[Kurt Busiek]

Do you know if the creator's are receiving any type of reprint payments?

I think so, but I'm not sure.

kdb

[Sir Tim Drake]

Yeah, guess I should have used a moniker :D

No-- there's nothing wrong with using your real name. :) I was just curious because I am also an Aaron, but I spell it differently.

[Arron]

I was just curious because I am also an Aaron, but I spell it differently.


I'm guessing you got the parents that knew how to spell right! :D

[Roquefort Raider]

Kurt Buisek and Carlos Pacheo would be an interesting choice for doing John Carter. I love the way Pacheo does his futuristic images.

For my part, I'd love to see John Carter drawn by Frank Cho.








Oh, all right, I mean Dejah Thoris.

[berk]

For my part, I'd love to see John Carter drawn by Frank Cho.


Oh, all right, I mean Dejah Thoris. You can see some of Cho's Dejah Thoris drawings on the web.Although I usually don't mind his artwork, I didn't like his take on Burroughs much. Funny, because I thought the art in Shanna was nice enough, though the story was remarkably weak.

[Sir Tim Drake]

For my part, I'd love to see John Carter drawn by Frank Cho.








Oh, all right, I mean Dejah Thoris.

Behold!!

http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/categories.php?cat_id=30&page=12
http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/categories.php?cat_id=30&page=13
http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/categories.php?cat_id=30&page=14

[Rob Allen]

Getting back to some of the original questions - I don't know whose idea it was to include strip reprints and non-Tarzan material, but I have read recently that the Burroughs estate people were very actively involved and very vocal about what they wanted. The impression I got is that DC was relieved to be rid of them.

Within the last year or two, I completed my collection of the DC Burroughs material. I hope to re-read it all some time soon.

[tricksterpup]

I know this is off topic but kinda relates to tarzan and neil adams. Neil did a series of covers for the books, i believe in the 70's or 80's Wonderful covers.
http://members.aol.com/misuly/tarzan_black.jpg

[Captain Jim]

I remember those. They *were* great. Their small size did not do them justice.

[tricksterpup]

I remember those. They *were* great. Their small size did not do them justice.
Yeah, you are so right but didnt Neil come out with a portfolio prints on those?

[Red Oak Kid]

Yeah, you are so right but didnt Neil come out with a portfolio prints on those?

I'm not aware of a Tarzan portfolio by Neal Adams. However he did put out a portfolio called "Savage". These are large pencil drawings. Some of them are a "Conan like" figure. But I suspect that some of them are peliminary sketches for Tarzan paperback covers.

You can see thumbnails of the portfolio here: http://www.nealadams.com/Portfolio/savage.html

I personally loved the Ballantine book Tarzan covers that Neal did, but I hated that they were reduced to such a small size.

There have always been rumors about these covers. Neal did 12 and then Boris Vallejo completed the series.

Some say that the contract was taken away from Neal for various reasons. Some say it was because he missed deadlines. Others have reported that, either Ballantine or the Burroughs estate was not happy with Neal's odd layouts.

Neal's son Spyda Adams says on www.nealadams.com that the contract was not taken from Neal and he did all the covers he had contracted to do.

(I believe that the above statement by Spyda was made in response to a question on the original Neal Adams message board, which is no longer on the site. The message board on neal adams .com comes and goes.)

I have emailed nealadams.com several times, and for the most part have received very nice and informative responses from Neal's children.

[Kan-Man]

Yeah, you are so right but didnt Neil come out with a portfolio prints on those?

I'm pretty sure you're right. My brother was a Tarzan nut back in the day and we both really liked Neal Adams. I have a strong recollection that he owned the portfolio of the Tarzan covers.

[Slam_Bradley]

I'm pretty sure you're right. My brother was a Tarzan nut back in the day and we both really liked Neal Adams. I have a strong recollection that he owned the portfolio of the Tarzan covers.


He did a series of Tarzan portfolios.

Adams Tarzan Portfolios (http://www.nealadams.com/Portfolio/naportfolioabc.html)

[Red Oak Kid]

oh, THAT Neal Adams Tarzan portfolio. :o :o :o :o

[Sean Dulaney]

In 1972, DC got the comic book rights to Tarzan. They continued the Gold Key numbering. Last GK ish was 206 and first DC ish was 207.

I was excited about the first few issues with the great Joe Kubert art. But then they began taking old Tarzan newspaper strips with art by Hal Foster and others and cutting and pasting them together with Joe Kubert art. And they began cutting back the Tarzan stories and using non Tarzan backup features(Beyond the Farthest Star)

I've never heard the reasons behind all this. Has anyone ever read any interviews or articles which explained why DC did this?

Was this the plan from the beginning, i.e. start off with some full length Kubert stories and then start reprinting old Tarzan newspaper strips?

Was it simply a matter of Joe Kubert being overworked? Surely they could have anticipated this.

Was it something that the Burroughs estate instigated?

Also I am curious about the DC Tarzan logo. As far as I can tell the logo on DC's first Tarzan(207) was an original design done by a famous DC letterer whose name escapes me at the moment.

But I noticed when the rights to Tarzan went over to Marvel, so did this DC logo. Does everything relating to Tarzan that is drawn, including the logo, belong to the Burroughs estate and not DC comics?

Thanks

As far as the whole jump from Marvel to DC, I believe (from the column in the final issue or TARZAN FAMILY and a recent issue of BACK ISSUE) it was a situation where Joe Kubert had contracted to create material for Tarzan comic books worldwide from the ERB estate. I seem to recall one of the sources noted the estate wanting more material for the overseas comics as being part of the reason DC would no longer be doing the ERB titles. (DC was backing up the Korak stories in Tarzan Family with WEIRD WORLDS reprints towards the end.) Unless there's material that was put together we've never seen, the ERB/Marvel deal would throw that reasoning into question since there were only two titles (TARZAN and JOHN CARTER, WARLORD OF MARS) and neither one included back up stories. Not exactly building up an inventory for the European market.

As for using the Foster and Manning reprints, I'd agree it was likely due to the 25 cent "Bigger and Better" period at DC when the book launched. Most DC books were using reprint back-ups and the new non-Tarzan ERB material was being done for KORAK (moving to WEIRD WORLDS when the page count dropped in May of 72.) Plus it would be a good way to expose classic Tarzan stories to DC fans who might have looked down on Gold Key titles as just a step above Harvey titles as "kiddie books." (As well as reformating daily/sunday strips for the European market.) I just wonder what the reaction at ERB was the 100 pagers came out in 1974 filled out with Congo Bill, Detective Chimp and relettered Bomba the Jungle Boy reprints.

As far as the logo goes, it looks like either Ben Oda or Gaspar "cleaned up" the original St John JUNGLE TALES OF TARZAN logo that had been adopted for strip reprints overseas. I seem to recall it was used by Filmation on the late 70's CBS cartoon as well. Most likely the estate was happy with this logo treatment and made it the official version for a time.

Personally I'm looking forward to Dark Horse's reprints of the DC Tarzan. Picked up the two tabloid sized reprints DC had put out at Chicago and can't wait to see this on "good" paper.