Ultimates 2 #8 *Spoilers*

[the_changing_man]

Someone get out of bed and let me know the skinny on this issue :evilsmile :D

[Moses]

http://www.buzzscope.com/reviews.php?id=4939

4 page preview to get you by. Cap says he knows Jan was locked in an apartment with Hank for 4 hours. I'm guessing that this is a clue she's the traitor and relates to the bit at the end of issue 6.

This doesn't come out in the UK for another day, dammit! Someone put us out of our misery!

[Brian888]

Wow...that would be truly surprising, if Wasp is the traitor.

[Ivan Isaacs]

Flipped through my copy.

Cap is obviously the traitor.

He walks to Bucky, they have a little chat and then Fury let the Ultimates beat the crap out of Cap. He collapses under his very own statue. End of the issue.

BTW: The bodies of Hawkeye's family are found. Hawkeye? Nope.
Even on the recap page they are only saying that his family was murdered.

[Brian888]

SPOILERMy dream of seeing Cap and Thor bond while executing a daring prison break from the Triskelion are looking more and more likely. There's no way Cap is the traitor, which begs the question, "Who would have the access to doctor the video surveillance of the house?"SPOILER

[sixstringguild]

I flipped through it and I don't think it's Cap, but I won't say why...it still may be though...

[Brian888]

I flipped through it and I don't think it's Cap, but I won't say why...it still may be though...


Oh, come on. Say why.

[Pike]

It's not Cap. Nothing about his character suggests that he would set up a family to be killed. It's someone else and we're still waiting...how many more months until the next issue?

[jetter_cheeze]

Well, cap appears to be the traitor. However, i am thinking the captain america suit in hank pymm's bedroom was just used to frame cap.

i know, i know, i said it was cap all along, but this just seems fishy now.

Next issue...

[Beast]

Plus we had the 'Ultimates Reserves' that were showcased in the Annual turn up here. And there was that whole aspect about a 'Replcaement Cap' for the future. They even had a suit in a vault, for when they solved the Super Soldier problem. I have a feeling that either the Replacement Cap recovered and is insane, or someone else is stealing the costume from SHIELD and trying to frame the real one.

[sixstringguild]

Oh, come on. Say why.

I think it's the Wasp...but then again, they are making a cartoon out of the Ultimates and they probably don't want to ramrod one of their properties (Wasp) that's in the movie.

There is something about the Wasp in this issue that just doesn't seem right...the same could be said for Nick Fury though. There is one panel where he looks very evil, but it may be just because he's pissed.

[pureclint]

I thought it was obvious it was not Cap. He was telling Fury it was not him.

This is all one big "Some on is playing the Ultimates" story.

[Ivan Isaacs]

Seems so. Man and I had my fingers crossed that we would get rid of Captain Dumb@$$.

[pureclint]

Seems so. Man and I had my fingers crossed that we would get rid of Captain Dumb@$$.


Well I do not agree that he is Dumb, he is old fashioned not stupid. I am glad he was not the traitor as I said before if he was I was dropping the book.

[OMGDRAN]

Ya, theres no way Miller would have the traitor be revealed so cut and dry like that.

Think about it, some one has gone through the trouble to get 2 ultimates taken down by their own team. Each member has more than is seen to their situation.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I pray to god that it really wasn't Cap, cause he's the only reason (okay, and Thor.... And Spiderman) I'm reading the Ultimate Universe comics.

Could be Hawkeye, which would be the sickest thing I've ever heard!

Or Wasp, then Hank really should of beat her up some more.

[pureclint]

I am really starting to thing there is NO traitor. It is all a plot by Loki or Ultron...

[thik_3rd]

i've been saying all along that cap was the most obvious suspect...and that it obviously wouldn't be him because millar wouldn't write the story to be that cut and dry.
something to think about -- at no point did they explicitly say, or show on the video tape, that it was captain america. they just showed the shield ops watching the video then staring at in shock, then fury moving to bring in cap. of course this line of reasoning doesn't account for the "why did you do it cap?"'s and the suggestion it might not have been him in the ice when they found him.

[Jake V]

The fact that the guy who killed Hawkey's family looks a lot like Captain America sort of lends credibility to the idea that somewhere out there is an Ultimate USAgent.

Then again, for that to work, we'd have to believe that Loki, the god of mischief, was telling the truth. Millar could easily blame it all on Loki to have some sort of self-aware moment where Loki comes out and tells the the Ultimates (and the readers) how stupid they are for taking him at his word. That IS sorta Millar's style.

Awesome issue. I liked seeing that Cap could beat down those snot-nosed new recruits with both hands tied behind his back.

[thik_3rd]

Well, cap appears to be the traitor. However, i am thinking the captain america suit in hank pymm's bedroom was just used to frame cap.

yeah, didn't valkyrie ask him to dress up as cap during sex?
in the 616 you pretty much can't tell hank, steve or clint apart when they're out of costume. maybe this is the ultimate version of that.
hey, maybe it was hawkeye himself who somehow got his hands on a spare cap costume, did a quick change, murdered his own family and took off. explains why his body wasn't around.

[Magneto_X]

I am really starting to thing there is NO traitor. It is all a plot by Loki or Ultron...

I'm betting on Loki. Another possible scenario is that these two are in on it *together*. :0

[Cayman]

I'm gonna agree with whomever it was that suggested Betty is the traitor. Fury didn't want the Ultimates to know about the murder of Hawkeye's family until they had Cap dealt with, and yet there's Betty spilling the news on network television? Suspicious. Plus her part in freeing Banner, and her access to Hank Pym? Betty's up to no good, I say!


Cay

[nickfury187]

i agree. its just loki. i mean you gotta think back to the beginning, why would they even show Volstagg. This is Loki

[literally exaggerated]

no body for Hawkeye, whicch suggests, to me, that he's still alive.

I don't think its Cap. Too obvious, and just doesn't jive with anything we've seen from the character.

I think its Loki, and its gonna be up to Cap and Thor to stop him.

[manicman]

Loki would be really obvious as well, and isn't there still the question of whether Loki is real or just Thor's hallucination?

Oh yeah, just out of curiousity, who thinks Joe Mad was a really bad choice as the next Ultimates artitst? Or is there already a forum for that question?

[Captain]

Maybe it is Iron Man? I think we were supposed to be led in that direction, but I got the feeling it was him after reading this issue.

Anyone else?

[Jonathan]

Maybe it is Iron Man? I think we were supposed to be led in that direction, but I got the feeling it was him after reading this issue.

Anyone else?

I got the opposite feeling.

Issue 8 hints that Stark's building a Quinjet, which to me points to him making long-term plans for the team, not destroying it.

[Cayman]

I don't see Tony Stark being responsible for killing kids and babies.

Cay

[ultramandingo]

giant sized scum bag pym getting back at cap for the naked beat down - plus (!!!!!!!) hes doing his wife and (!!!!!!!) he let banner go! - or loki , whatever

[malephoenix]

I'm one of those who won't be picking up any more of Millar's run, but I'll say that from what you all are saying, I've been struck by a new idea:

Hawkeye is the traitor, and the people who murdered his family were perhaps one of the reserve teams or something. So he wasn't a victim of the traitor, but a victim of someone's idea of what's herioc - in this case, the disgusting and pointless slaughter of the traitor's family.

I hope that makes sense.

[MatthewC]

Say, what enemy did the Ultimates defeat in the first series that any surviving members might have quite a mad-on? Who had the power to change shape?

That's right, the Skrulls.

It's quite possible that someone who looks exactly like Cap has been running around, and even that guys like Hank Pym honestly believe they've been meeting with Cap.

[trofski]

wow. i thought this issue really showed how great millar and hitch are. I love how throughout this entire arc, cap is almost seen as the antagonist (most noteably, the defenders issue), but not so much where its completely obvious. and then in this issue it was really made clear that he was the protagonist. The emotions in this issue were outstanding too, esp with cap and fury. My bet is still on loki posing as cap being the traitor.
::massive spoilers::
my favorite parts were:

-cap running away from jan by jumping off the building. you can really tell that he's hurting.
-fury talking about hawkeye's family. its really one of the first times we seem an emotion other that "being pissed off" in him.
-cap and bucky talking on the porch. you can almost feel caps depression, and gail inside the house was a nice touch
-cap and bucky with the reserves. the way they call out really shows the bond they still have even after 60 years.
-(my absolute fav) the expression on fury's face as he yells as cap in the graveyard in the mid panel. its more than "im pissed off at you." its one that shows how utterly devastated Fury is.
-the panel with cap on the ground with the rocketman behind him, in siluette(sp?).

:end spoilers::

like i said i thought this was a great issue. I love the way millar and hitch mesh

[EZMOHR]

I can't wait until Ultimate Cap and Ultimate Thor break out of the Triskillion. I mean, you know Cap and Thor are going to be close to being cell mates, and Cap will start to believe the Loki stuff, and they are going to tear the Ultimates and the Reserves up!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Magneto_X]

Say, what enemy did the Ultimates defeat in the first series that any surviving members might have quite a mad-on? Who had the power to change shape?

That's right, the Skrulls.

It's quite possible that someone who looks exactly like Cap has been running around, and even that guys like Hank Pym honestly believe they've been meeting with Cap.

Not possible. The Chitauri need to consume their target in order to duplicate their form. And I doubt Marvel would let Ult. Cap be eaten off-panel by a Skrull. he's way to popular for that.

[I_am_scifi]

It's all Loki. Trickster at work, trickster at play...

[ColdFury]

"The butler did it."

No, not another Jarvis theory. But seriously, all this pandering around, throwing the herrings around to keep us off the mark, while leaving the usual 'black widow' clues pointing towards the Black Widow...

Who did Fury piss off in the Annual? The Russians.

I think a lot of today's comic writers pride themselves on leaving things out in the obvious and then snicker gleefully while we guess away at overly complicated 90's style solutions to things.

Seriously. Jean Loring? Scarlet Witch? Telegraphed so far away all the fans thought it was a feint.

The traitor is the Black Widow. Russian. Seducing one of the most powerful members of the team. Got herself her own suit of armor. Russian superspy, capable of hacking into backup video feeds with prepared doctored images. She's calls herself the Black Widow. :P

There's no way Tony & Natasha are going to get married and live happily ever after in this book. So Natasha's going to die, be the traitor, turn out to be the traitor and then die OR (my pick) "die" tragically at their wedding and show up later to be revealed as the traitor when Cap & Thor escape and go digging.

(Side bet: This will turn out in a way to get the Avenger's Big Three bonded over in the Ultimate verse. Tony will help bust out Thor and Cap, and the three of them will go looking for the traitor.)

Seriously, sometimes it really is the Soviet super spy working in their midst. I think it really is just that obvious.

[BonjourTragedy]

In the latest Wizard it had an interview with Millar and he said the villans were Ultimate Ultron and Ultimate Red Skull.

[Exo]

Loki may have a part in this mess but he's not alone. He revealed to Thor (in Ultimates #5) that there indeed was "a wolf in the fold". Who's working for some associate of his. Great issue BTW.

[Cayman]

Betty could have access to Ultimate Ultron through Hank Pym, and be working for the Red Skull. I'm just saying.

Cay

[pureclint]

Hmmm maybe a Ultimate Masters of Evil? Skull, Ultron, Loki and whomever? Really the book can go anywhere at this point.

[Huh?]

"The butler did it."

No, not another Jarvis theory. But seriously, all this pandering around, throwing the herrings around to keep us off the mark, while leaving the usual 'black widow' clues pointing towards the Black Widow...

Who did Fury piss off in the Annual? The Russians.

I think a lot of today's comic writers pride themselves on leaving things out in the obvious and then snicker gleefully while we guess away at overly complicated 90's style solutions to things.

Seriously. Jean Loring? Scarlet Witch? Telegraphed so far away all the fans thought it was a feint.

The traitor is the Black Widow. Russian. Seducing one of the most powerful members of the team. Got herself her own suit of armor. Russian superspy, capable of hacking into backup video feeds with prepared doctored images. She's calls herself the Black Widow. :P

There's no way Tony & Natasha are going to get married and live happily ever after in this book. So Natasha's going to die, be the traitor, turn out to be the traitor and then die OR (my pick) "die" tragically at their wedding and show up later to be revealed as the traitor when Cap & Thor escape and go digging.

(Side bet: This will turn out in a way to get the Avenger's Big Three bonded over in the Ultimate verse. Tony will help bust out Thor and Cap, and the three of them will go looking for the traitor.)

Seriously, sometimes it really is the Soviet super spy working in their midst. I think it really is just that obvious.That makes sense to me. I agree

[Doom Hammer]

I haven't read the issue yet, but as a random bit of spoilage as far as villains, Mark Millar stated in Wizard that the last arc (this one) would feature (and I quote), "Ultimate Ultron and Ultimate Red Skull, bitches."

[Will.S]

I don't think Natasha is going to die because she's going to be in Volume 3, unless they hire and develop a new Black Widow that is.

[tricksterpup]

Trickster at work, trickster at play...
I had nothing to do with it.. i dont even know Mark Millar. ;)

[Jonathan]

I'm betting that instead of a German, Ultimate Red Skull will be a commie, loyal to the late USSR. Maybe he wears the red skull mask as a symbol that as far as he's concerned, the USSR ain't as dead as everyone thinks. Or as a symbol that he's trying to revive it.

Or maybe the Ultimate Red Skull isn't a person at all, but rather an organization of people.

Also, whoever was in Hank's apartment, I'm betting he or she made a deal for the Ultron robot in exchange for bringing Cap down next, in issue 8, so that there wouldn't be anything stopping Jan from running back to Hank.

So. Hulk: in hiding; Thor: imprisoned; Cap: imprisoned. All through the manipulations of Natasha and Loki, who are both working for the Red Skull, for whatever reasons.

Next up on their hit list: Tony Stark. Targeted by Natasha, who's working with the Red Skull. Should be easy enough to try to kill a man with a malignant brain tumor who lives an extremely high-risk lifestyle without too much suspicion.

If Natasha gets Tony's money, the Red Skull can start mass-producng Ultrons. Ultron 1, 2, 3, and so on.

Just some speculation. :/

[Nick Kal]

At this point if you think it can't be a character because they're in Ultimates vo. 3, think again. Loeb said he doesn't know all the characters he's using because he doesn't know the final outcome of vol. 2. something like that in Wizard.

[cheshire42]

Nick Fury.

Now that the team's all set up with the reserves and numerous Captains, the original team isn't needed any more. He's managed to take Banner, Thor, Hawkeye, and now Cap off the board. Hank took himself out of action, but Fury's kept him there - and not in a nice way. It looks like the government is going after Stark for the 'mysterious plane'. Hawkeye, though a loyal soldier, was a sacrifice to set up Cap. Note - no body. Perhaps the loyal soldier was (gasp) in on the conspiracy, as ghastly as that sounds?

It's been shown that Fury is a manipulator time and again, and not above being dishonest or deceptive. The 'leak' may have been intentional - steer the public team against Thor while 'hiding in plain sight'. The US gov't does this all the time, if you believe the conspiracy buffs.

I'm thinking Fury is eliminating the original team because he sees most of them as potential disasters, even Cap. Push them too far and they could turn on you.

Loki? I'm thinking Loki is a figment of Thor's imagination... for real. The theme of this storyline seems to be 'the evils that governments can do', and that being said, Fury as the villain makes a lot of sense. To the Ultimates, he *is* the government...

c42

[Nick Kal]

So to set up Cap he had to kill Hawkeye's family, too? Doesn't seem right... that'd be really sick of Fury, Nicole (the baby) was his god daughter, and I don't see him as that type of character, but it would be a twist...

And Hawkeye's body is missing.. he could be in on it... that'd be even bigger.

[Kirk G]

So to set up Cap he had to kill Hawkeye's family, too? Doesn't seem right... that'd be really sick of Fury, Nicole (the baby) was his god daughter, and I don't see him as that type of character, but it would be a twist...

And Hawkeye's body is missing.. he could be in on it... that'd be even bigger.
I don't buy that Fury wants to destroy his own team... not even if they are expenable or a risk. Yes, he may want or need to get the wild cards or loose cannons under control.... but that doesn't fit Cap. Unless you think his little tirade against wife-beater Hank was a loose cannon that needed to be reigned in.

Now, if Hank is a multiple personality, and he's been seen conversing with himself... that would make sense. But personally, I'm up for either Loki or the SPace Phantom as the villian behind this traitor business.

Recall back in the original 616 issue #2, the Space Phantom substituted or replaced each original avenger, turning the team against one another, until a miscalculation checkmated himself. It also set up the Hulk-out-of-the-team dynamic for the rest of the series, providing motivation for at least the next three to four issues, and the jumping off point for issue 16 and Cap's kookie quartet.

It would be neet if this were Loki, doing what the Space Phantom had done, replacing or imitation each of the team members as he appears to a different one each time, to turn the team inside out... all to get at his brother. After all, he is described as "the Trickster". :rolleyes:

What do you all think?

[OMGDRAN]

You got to wonder why Hawkeyes body would be taken. Either hes dead and his body is useful or he is still alive.

Remeber, No one is ever dead unless you see a body.*



*although this gets less and less true over the years. but most people who are dead, you see the body. Unless there is a clone/doppelganger copout. but so far the ultimate universe hasn't done this.

[Beast]

You got to wonder why Hawkeyes body would be taken. Either hes dead and his body is useful or he is still alive.

Remeber, No one is ever dead unless you see a body.*



*although this gets less and less true over the years. but most people who are dead, you see the body. Unless there is a clone/doppelganger copout. but so far the ultimate universe hasn't done this.
Betsy Braddock died in Ultimate X-Men: 'World Tour' (which was written by Millar) when she was possessed by Proteus. She was killed by Colossus who crushed her with a car during a moment when she was holding Kevin back. She was later revealed to be alive in Ultimate X-Men: 'Return of the King'. She'd transferred her mind into the comatose body of Asian girl named Kwannon. :)

[OMGDRAN]

Betsy Braddock died in Ultimate X-Men: 'World Tour' (which was written by Millar) when she was possessed by Proteus. She was killed by Colossus who crushed her with a car during a moment when she was holding Kevin back. She was later revealed to be alive in Ultimate X-Men: 'Return of the King'. She'd transferred her mind into the comatose body of Asian girl named Kwannon. :)


Thats inline with the powers of telepathic though.

[Beast]

Thats inline with the powers of telepathic though.
Still, it's a cheat for allowing a dead character to come back. I'm sure once they get around to doing the Apocalypse storyline, we'll see a lot of those dead characters popping up as Horsemen of Apocalypse. At least that's my hope. :)

[Will.S]

At this point if you think it can't be a character because they're in Ultimates vo. 3, think again. Loeb said he doesn't know all the characters he's using because he doesn't know the final outcome of vol. 2. something like that in Wizard.
No he does.

Jeph says in the Wizard article that he knows where Millar is leaving the team in volume 2 since it's what Jeph has to go on for volume 3's lineup. The reason he's being vague about his lineup is because his run is going to take place a while after volume 2 so anything could have happened to those characters within that time frame which is going to affect the final roster.

[surt_son]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the true trader is Jan and Cap has been framed. The beauty of Steve's imprisonment is that it sets up a breakout with Thor. I'll add to that Tony Stark quickly comes to their aid as he has lost any interest in being a part of supplying the government with weapons. OOoh, I can't even imagine how sweet that breakout will be. Prediction: Best. Issue. Ever!

I have to say that I do like Jonathan's theory too.

~tim

[KAy]

I found it strange that Fury turned so easily against Cap. "How could we just take this punk at his word"... WTF?! As if Cap didn't prove himself against Hulk, aliens, that rescue operation in Iraq, etc.? I mean, all the "evidence" Fury's got is a damn video footage (which wasn't shown, BTW). Bah, as if it's sooo hard to fool a security video camera in comics. Use a mask or shapeshift or whatever, and you can set up anyone you want.

ps: after this issue, I got a lot more respect and love for Cap. Hope he eventually kicks Fury's stupid ass for calling him a "piece of s***" and a "punk".

pps: the art was gorgeous, especially the last two pages. Can't wait for the next issue!

[allaboutduncan]

I thought Fury's ultimate belief of the security camera footage was odd too. I mean, it's universe full of super-heroes, shape changing aliens, rocket ships, and genetic manipulation. Why can't someone look just like Cap or have a Cap costume and why wouldn't Fury at least investigate.

His anger could come from his relation to Hawkeye's family. That's one way to explain it. He was emotionally hurt and not thinking.

However, that does seem odd. Not that I think Fury is the traitor. I'm still leaning toward Red Skull.

[Jonathan]

His anger could come from his relation to Hawkeye's family. That's one way to explain it. He was emotionally hurt and not thinking.

Yep. Whoever set Cap up knew exactly which of Fury's buttons to push to make him go off the deep end and act without really analyzing the situation. Something that isn't easy to do, considering how collected Fury usually is.

Here's something trivial that I just thought about: if Hawkeye survived that attack (and he probably did - my money's on him being the one to clear Cap, since he knows what really went down), since a gun seems to have been fired right by his head, will be now be partially deaf like his regular Marvel Universe counterpart? :b

[Henry Bendix]

Haven't got the issue yet but it sounds awsome, does cap put up a decent fight when they try to catch him, i'd hate him to get taken down to easily

[pureclint]

Yeah he does well considering the circumstances. HE is outgunned, ambushed and heavily druged. More reason why I find it lame that he could not get in on the Thor fight, yet go toe to toe with the Hulk.

[stealthwise]

All predictions aside...

Anyone else enjoying this run as much as I am? Damn, this series has it all, I'm really going to miss Millar and Hitch when it's over.

[Jonathan]

All predictions aside...

Anyone else enjoying this run as much as I am? Damn, this series has it all, I'm really going to miss Millar and Hitch when it's over.

I haven't anticipated new issues of a series this much since Kingdom Come. I too will greatly miss Millar and Hitch. I really, really, really wish they were the creative team doing vol. 3. :(

[Beast]

All predictions aside...

Anyone else enjoying this run as much as I am? Damn, this series has it all, I'm really going to miss Millar and Hitch when it's over.
Actually I think that Ultimates Vol. 1 was much better by far. Ultimates Vol. 2 doesn't seem to be quite as fresh and refreshing as the first 13 issues.

[literally exaggerated]

I like Ultimates 2 better than Ultimates 1.

Which isn't to say that Ultimates 1 was anything less than brilliant.

[Tobias March]

Great issue. It was such an interesting set up, the conversation with Bucky. If he is a plant, as Fury suggests, he certainly has been conditioned well.

However, the media scenes at the end suggested to me that this is a well planned fake out. Fury has laid the blame on Cap in order to convince the real traitor that they are in the clear.

Just my pet little theory. And the possibility of a Clint Barton returning to active service, somehow having survived, a broken man with nothing to loose.....it's going to be a hell of a finale.

[malephoenix]

Great issue. It was such an interesting set up, the conversation with Bucky. If he is a plant, as Fury suggests, he certainly has been conditioned well.

However, the media scenes at the end suggested to me that this is a well planned fake out. Fury has laid the blame on Cap in order to convince the real traitor that they are in the clear.

Just my pet little theory. And the possibility of a Clint Barton returning to active service, somehow having survived, a broken man with nothing to loose.....it's going to be a hell of a finale.

Wow. Just...wow. All of those would be incredible... Great ideas, Toby.

[Siddon]

Its building up nicely I don't think its the best the series has had (4-6 of Series 1 are three of the best comics written ever IMHO) but its getting really good.

I just hope we don't get the Fables ending with the Adversary.

[Doom Hammer]

I sense subtle Loki-manipulations...

Anbody else notice how Cap's plaque seemed to change on the second-to-last page? I thought it may have been just the different angle, but I don't know...

Looks like Loki might be trying to show Cap in a less-than-heroic light, by erasing the records of his extraordinary exploits.

[Magneto_X]

I found it strange that Fury turned so easily against Cap. "How could we just take this punk at his word"... WTF?! As if Cap didn't prove himself against Hulk, aliens, that rescue operation in Iraq, etc.? I mean, all the "evidence" Fury's got is a damn video footage (which wasn't shown, BTW). Bah, as if it's sooo hard to fool a security video camera in comics. Use a mask or shapeshift or whatever, and you can set up anyone you want.

ps: after this issue, I got a lot more respect and love for Cap. Hope he eventually kicks Fury's stupid ass for calling him a "piece of s***" and a "punk".

pps: the art was gorgeous, especially the last two pages. Can't wait for the next issue!

Unless Cap wasn't with Fury at the time. *cues Twilite Zone music*

I wonder if the Ultimate S.H.I.E.L.D has Life Model Decoys yet? :)

[Harold of the Rocks]

It ain't ultimate Jarvis, I'll say that.

All predictions aside...

Anyone else enjoying this run as much as I am? Damn, this series has it all, I'm really going to miss Millar and Hitch when it's over.

Damn right, I will. Let's hope the next team can carry the torch in their own way.

oh, and I didn't read the entire thread, so Harold deeply apologizes for if this a repeat theory, but I did propose it before on the previous 'traitor' thread. So I also won't dig quite as deep as I have before...

It's Loki.

He setup Banner, he setup Thor, hell, he mighta setup Pym. He's tryin' to break up the Avengers. Sorta the antithesis of him creatin' them in the regular M.U.

Loki impersonated Cap ever since we saw that Ira*i(an) (insert q or n) 'refugee' back in #6 (I think it was #6). He was in green and bore a bit of a resmeblance to our favorite god of mischief. That's to me is why the last issue called 'Grand Theft America' will resonate in the near future... because Loki stole Captain America. Now, Fury just took the real Cap, because Loki messed with his head, and he doesn't even realize what's goin' on. There's no reason for Loki to lay his cards on the table for Thor, so when he says there is a 'wolf in the fold', it is because he doesn't want Thor to think that Cap is an ally. Now that they are both under S.H.I.E.L.D. custody, they won't work together... because Thor thinks that Cap betrayed the team. As to Clint's whereabouts, he could be Loki's captive, as now the team that once boasted Captain America, Thor, and Giant Man (not to mention Banner as 'potential' member) as members now is reduced to Iron Man, Black Widow, Wasp, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch. This team is getting dismantled and I say it's Loki's doing. Guess we'll have to stay tuned for awhile... (hot damn! I love this storyline!)...

:D

[Exo]

And the possibility of a Clint Barton returning to active service, somehow having survived, a broken man with nothing to loose.....it's going to be a hell of a finale.

Didnt he get three bullets to the chest in last iss? He's no superman you know. :/


It's Loki.

He setup Banner,

Loki said it wasnt him but a traitor inside the ultimate team (and I don't think he's the kind who would give someone else credit for no reason).

[Red State Cap]

All predictions aside...
Anyone else enjoying this run as much as I am? Damn, this series has it all, I'm really going to miss Millar and Hitch when it's over.

I'm enjoying it so much I dropped the book!

RSC

[cactusmaac]

I'd have to say V2 is interesting me a lot more than V1.

V1 left me with the feeling that it was worth picking up for the Hitch art but the writing and the annoying pop-culture references (Shannon Elizabeth? Freddie Prinze Jnr?) was just kind of meh.

This has been a much more intriguing ride. Millar's Cap and Fury are two of the best takes on the characters I've yet read.

[Magneto_X]

Loki said it wasnt him but a traitor inside the ultimate team (and I don't think he's the kind who would give someone else credit for no reason).

He could be lying. He is the god of mischief, after all.

[Brian888]

However, the media scenes at the end suggested to me that this is a well planned fake out. Fury has laid the blame on Cap in order to convince the real traitor that they are in the clear.


Damn, that's a good idea!

[Exo]

He could be lying. He is the god of mischief, after all.

Then we have to neglect the fact that there indeed is a traitor among the ranks who outed Banner to the press (and not Loki). Loki could have masqueraded as one of the team-mates, but that theory doesnt interest me.

[jelly [blank] of doom]

"Can't believe we were this stupid. How could we just take this punk at his word when everybody else on the team gets six months of background checks?" - Nick Fury

"Guy showed up when we needed him most and wearing the damn flag on his chest, General. The hell were we supposed to think?" - Randomd S.H.I.E.L.D. Soilder

"Man, you guys must have been laughing your butts off..Stak's deep sea unit just happens to find Captain America bobbing aling in a big chunk of ice at exactly the same time S.H.I.E.L.D. was putting a super-hero team together. You guys must have thought we were pretty damn stupid, huh?" - Nick Furty to "Captain America"

These quotes right here have me to believe that Fury thinks that Captain America isn't the real deal, he's just a plan, a fake, a clone, or something to that matter. Now that means there is an organized group behind this whole thing trying to take S.H.I.E.L.D. down, I saw someone else say something along the lines that maybe Ultimate Red Skull is just a terrorist group, I don't think so, I think this might be the introduction of Ultimate Hydra with a team member in co-hoots with them. All obvious signs point to Black Widow.. beacuse well, she's a friggin spy. I think that's too easy, but who knows? I kinda had a gut feeling since the start that it was Betty Ross.. But maybe I'm just overthinking this thing. This little thought just popped into my head, this is the real Captain America (which I believe it is) and the organization behind this found him and just kept him until they thought it was right to strike and somehow clones or did something to that matter and now there is an "evil" Cap or just a shapshifter, etc etc. But I have been digging volume 2 way more than volume 1. Kinda sad to see Millar and Hitch go, but all good things must come to an end.

[1961]

Despite what Fury thinks I believe that this is the real Cap.
His behaiviour after supposedly slaughtering hawkeye's entire family just isn't right.
Even if he believed that he was undiscovered at that point his concerns were to do with his " relationship" with Jan and his feeling out of place in the 21st century, even the most cold blooded of killers would maybe have had other concerns at that point.
Also where the hell is Clints body?
There is more going on here that there seems at first, we're only 8 issues in to a I guess 12 issue run plenty of time for plot twists galore yet!
I'm not sure that I trust Ms Van Dyne either, the careers of both of the men she's been involved with have not ended well,coincidence????
I agree with a few other posters too Black Widow is too obvious to be the traitor...........................or is she??

[Cayman]

Clint may have been the person we in Hank's apartment earlier in the series. Perhaps after playing his part in the treachery, his collaborators no longer needed him and sent a team to both discredit Captain America and keep Hawkeye silent.

Although to me, it doesn't make a lot of sense becaues I just don't see that Hank and Clint interacted enough to develop that sort of relationship. Hank was pretty much absent from the team when Hawkeye was introduced.

I'm still betting on Ms. Ross.

Cay

[Dante]

"The butler did it."

No, not another Jarvis theory. But seriously, all this pandering around, throwing the herrings around to keep us off the mark, while leaving the usual 'black widow' clues pointing towards the Black Widow...

Who did Fury piss off in the Annual? The Russians.

I think a lot of today's comic writers pride themselves on leaving things out in the obvious and then snicker gleefully while we guess away at overly complicated 90's style solutions to things.

Seriously. Jean Loring? Scarlet Witch? Telegraphed so far away all the fans thought it was a feint.

The traitor is the Black Widow. Russian. Seducing one of the most powerful members of the team. Got herself her own suit of armor. Russian superspy, capable of hacking into backup video feeds with prepared doctored images. She's calls herself the Black Widow. :P

There's no way Tony & Natasha are going to get married and live happily ever after in this book. So Natasha's going to die, be the traitor, turn out to be the traitor and then die OR (my pick) "die" tragically at their wedding and show up later to be revealed as the traitor when Cap & Thor escape and go digging.

(Side bet: This will turn out in a way to get the Avenger's Big Three bonded over in the Ultimate verse. Tony will help bust out Thor and Cap, and the three of them will go looking for the traitor.)

Seriously, sometimes it really is the Soviet super spy working in their midst. I think it really is just that obvious.


I totally agree.

Millar is a terrific writer, I don't care who you talk to. He knows how to work a storyline to throw the reader off. He shows all these touching and tender scences with Cap pretty much dumping his girl, then talking to his long time buddy and saying he doesn't have any friends, then getting taken down by SHEILD? Of course it isn't Cap. This is 100% red herring if I have ever seen one. And I'm a high school english teacher! Red herring all the way.

It is totally Natasha. This is going to bring in Red Skull just like Millar said, and then Ultron. That is the only part I haven't figured out is how Ultron is going to pop up again. Maybe stolen by Natasha and given to Red Skull. I like the idea that the Red Skull is an organization rather than just a person. But Natasha is in a perfect position to bring the rest of the team down. What better way than to marry one of the teams leading characters?

Dante

[TAYLORMADE777]

I think there is at least 2 groups working against the Ulitmates. One I believe Tony, who is dissatisfied with the way the Ulitmates are being used. He has hired Hank and now Janet. And the other one I think is Fury being manupulated by Loki.

Clues: Tony working on a new advanced plane, Hank now working for a new company, Janet couldn't be the person talking to Hank in his apartment, cause the comments he/she made sounded if they were at actually there overthrowing the country. And we know Janet was not there. And Fury has been extra paranoid lately.

[StoneGold]

The traitor is Ronin, who in reality is the Winter Soldier.

[Gaz]

The traitor is Ronin, who in reality is the Winter Soldier.
Yes, yes, but how do Jason Todd, Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, Bucky and Frank Stallone fit in? :D

[nuclearman]

Great issue. I thought Bucky was going to get killed in the crossfire, that would've been sad. I am beginning to dislike Fury more and more. The guy to me is a moron. He is falling into every trap that is set.

Now I am really looking forward to Thor and Captain America engineering the escape to end all escapes and nailing Loki and whoever else stands in their way!!

[sjackso3]

The traitor is Fury. He is the only one with the knowledge and power to do any of this. He is also a manipulative bastard as was shown in Ultimates Annual #1. In that issue you already see that he was predicting the fall of Cap and was actively looking for a replacement. It's fairly obvious.

He also has a motive. Now that the Ultimates are in place and he has his super soldier program, he needs to get rid of the super heroes who would stop him from imposing American foreign policy by force. Thor, Cap, and Hawkeye (to avert suspicion from himself).

Next will be Tony, count on it. This is just a repeat of the "Weatherman" storyline in Stormwatch.

I want credit when I'm shown to be right. :D

[onetruejp]

Well, Black Widow sounds good, but Madureira has preview art of her. Why bother drawing her if she's not going to be around for a 3rd volume?

[Magneto_X]

Has either Mad or Loeb confirmed it was the same Black Widow or another character taking over the mantle?

[surt_son]

However, the media scenes at the end suggested to me that this is a well planned fake out. Fury has laid the blame on Cap in order to convince the real traitor that they are in the clear.

Yes! This is great and shouldn't be show to be true until the very last moment.

~tim

[Titan76]

The only thing I hate about the Ultimates is wating for it to come out. This second run would be 10 times better if there was maybe one delay that lasted a month. Because of the delays I am really getting sick and tried of wating to find out who the traitor is. I mean this volume won't end until next year, the delays are killing the excitement that this book should have. We are 8 issues in and it petty much feels like we are back at square one. We have no idea if Thor is crazy or not, we have only guesses into who the traitor is and we don't know if the Ultimates will stay as a group or disband at the end or what is going to happen to the Hulk. It would be nice to have the rest of the issues out on time but I guess that's to much to ask for from Marvel now days. :mad:

[StoneGold]

Well, Black Widow sounds good, but Madureira has preview art of her. Why bother drawing her if she's not going to be around for a 3rd volume?
Why would Cassaday draw an entire page showing Phoenix coming back to life for Astonishing X-Men when he knew it was really Colossus? Why would Mark Millar leak the script for Ultimate Fantastic Four where it looked like they would be crossing over to the Marvel Universe, when he knew damn well they were zombies?

Shall I continue?

[Kirk G]

Let's go back to basics.

The appeal of the Ultimates universe (besides great writing, art and characterizations) is the twist on the old familiar relationships.

Looking at the first few issues of the Avengers back in 1963 or so, we find that Loki caused the team to assemble... and has nursed a grudge ever since. The second issue featured an alien who replaced each of the team one by one and while impersonating them, stired up trouble.

I wonder if the current storyline in the Ultimates is Loki, replacing or impersonating each of the team members to stir up trouble and disention.
OR, could it be a skrull on the loose from the first volume doing the same thing.
They can impersonate others, right? Have we ever seen them in action?
How do we know they got them all?

My bet is on them.
But I like the idea of Betty Brant alot...and Natasha also looks good.
But Not Cap. And not Fury.
I think someone has impersonated them in turn...

[Will.S]

Let's go back to basics.

The appeal of the Ultimates universe (besides great writing, art and characterizations) is the twist on the old familiar relationships.

Looking at the first few issues of the Avengers back in 1963 or so, we find that Loki caused the team to assemble... and has nursed a grudge ever since. The second issue featured an alien who replaced each of the team one by one and while impersonating them, stired up trouble.

I wonder if the current storyline in the Ultimates is Loki, replacing or impersonating each of the team members to stir up trouble and disention.
OR, could it be a skrull on the loose from the first volume doing the same thing.
They can impersonate others, right? Have we ever seen them in action?
How do we know they got them all?

My bet is on them.
But I like the idea of Betty Brant alot...and Natasha also looks good.
But Not Cap. And not Fury.
I think someone has impersonated them in turn...
I'd love for them to do the whole "old story with several new twists" type thing if the second volume is going the way the first two Avengers books go. I can't think of any other way Nick and crew would believe it's Cap, especially when he didn't know anything about it so it has to be either another party at play (like Jake V's idea of Ultimate US Agent) or Loki himself up to his mischief.

[Magneto_X]

Did anybody else notice how Vision and Ultron looked at each other in the panel when Hank said they were "expendable" in issue #6?

I wouldn't be surprised if they both (or just Ultron) was involved somehow.

[StoneGold]

Did anybody else notice how Vision and Ultron looked at each other in the panel when Hank said they were "expendable" in issue #6?

I wouldn't be surprised if they both (or just Ultron) was involved somehow.
You mean like Hulkling and Asgardian?


Oh, wait, you didn't mean that kind of involved. Or that kind of look.

[Unkillable Cat]

For what my opinion's worth, I'm certain Loki is real and not a figment of Thor's imagination.

Loki can be seen far too many times in the second series for him to be discounted as one man's delusions. The restaurant in the first issue, the nightclub in the second issue, his alter-ego, Gunnar Golman, the refugee in the Middle Eastern country - the list goes on.

So the big question is - who did Loki ally himself with?

[Siddon]

I think its Ultron because we have gotten zero clues while everyone else has a theory.

but then again we haven't seen Iron Man at all this year whatsupwiththat

P.S. Finally the Ultimates who have been in my top ten for the last 2 years have hit number 1 a lot of titles have been slipping this past quarter (C&D Runaways and Ex Machina) but Ultimates is the best line the company has right now.

[Magneto_X]

Iron Man has shown up. He proposed to Natasha and fought Thor in his armour.

[Siddon]

Iron Man has shown up. He proposed to Natasha and fought Thor in his armour.

8 issues in and thats really it pretty weak for one of the "Big Three"

[MrPunch0]

I don't think it's the skrulls or chutairi or whatever they were called -that's sooooo volume one. ;)

My money was on Fury for a long time - and all the signs are pointing that way. So I'm thinking that's just what we're supposed to think. Is he playing everyone - or just a pawn of Loki?

Hawkeye - he's either in on it or will show up in the last issue to clear Cap.

Ultron's gotta be involved somehow - I just don't see it yet.

There's going to be more blood before this is all over - not everyone is going to come out of this alive. Millar and Hitch are going to go out with a bang.

[mail_order_arab]

Millar has said the clues have been there all along, going thru back issues, I have the feeling Scarlet Witch is the traitor, I dont think she's included in next 'seasons' Ultimates either.

[MrPunch0]

Millar has said the clues have been there all along, going thru back issues, I have the feeling Scarlet Witch is the traitor, I dont think she's included in next 'seasons' Ultimates either.

They wouldn't have Wanda bring down everyone in TWO universes at the same time would they? I think fanboys would cry foul.

[StoneGold]

They wouldn't have Wanda bring down everyone in TWO universes at the same time would they? I think fanboys would cry foul.
THey already killed Hawkeye off in both.

[Magneto_X]

Technically we don't know if Hawkeye's dead in the Ultimate universe. No body, no death.

[Gauss]

Based on Wizard #168, I guess that the culprits will be:

"Ultimate Ultron and Ultimate Red Skull, bitches!" -- Mark Millar

So what does that mean for the traitor?

[StoneGold]

Technically we don't know if Hawkeye's dead in the Ultimate universe. No body, no death.
And suddenly, I'm thinking Hawkeye is the traitor. Or at least one of them. Show for the camera.

[motoyanni999]

I think it was Jarvis because in a comic a way long time ago he sold out the avengers to Ultron, It could set up the the whole ultimate ultron origin story especially because that comic was his first appearance, but also Ult. Jarvis has a stick up his ass

[Magneto_X]

Based on Wizard #168, I guess that the culprits will be:

"Ultimate Ultron and Ultimate Red Skull, bitches!" -- Mark Millar

So what does that mean for the traitor?

Would that make the latter Herr Klaiser? He's the closest the Ultimate U has to said villian.

[Nick Kal]

I also thought he would be during that arc.. but I think Red Skull will be completely reimagined.

[Digital Wasteland]

I think, since this is the ultiverse, black widown will BECOME the red skull.

C'mon, a chick super-nazi isn't all that hard to fathom.

[nateslate8]

I have tried to write this message several times in attempt to come up with a theory that takes into account all the evidence. Unfortunately, there is simply not enough there to make the guess. Millar knew we would guess Cap before issue 8 (I had him pegged by issue 6) and we'd all be patting ourselves on the back when #8 came out. Millar also seems to know better than to leave to many clues. So, it really is true: anything STILL goes at this point.

But seeing how Millar only has four more issues to go, he'd better start wrapping things up soon.

Let me tear down some theories that were posted previously:

Tony: Not the traitor. Haven't seem much of him and he's too busy cooing over Tasha and the new weapons he's building. I agree with others that he will help Cap and Thor escape somehow. He's one of the big three and it's about time the Ultimates comic made that clear.

Cap: Also not the traitor and definitely the victim througout (although not as much as Thor). His line to Fury I think was genuine in #8: "Nick please, I don't know what you're talking about..." Plus, he was being pretty careless hanging out with old war buddies in broad daylight when the US gov. is after you.

Wasp: Not the traitor, probably not involved. She has zero interest in national politics (Hank's mystery guest in #6 is very interested in politics).

Hawkeye: This is the weakest of all the traitor theories. The way the shooting went down was played straight (no wink, wink at all). I think he got three bullets to the chest and survived. I don't care if he isn't super! Think of how many times The Punisher has been shot. It's comics, people. Hawkeye will come back for some good-ole-fashion revenge.

Hank: Not the traitor, but an accomplice- probably unknowningly. I think that the traitor or those he/she is working with buddied up to Hank to get hold of his Ultron model. Or maybe to use him as an alibi or scapegoat. Hank was working too hard to get back into the good graces of the ultimates. Why would he throw all that away?

Betty: Could be the traitor, but it doesn't make any sense. There's no motive. Maybe there will be, but so far she's been seen and not heard. Betty's press conference was another set up by the real traitor like some have said, but it wasn't done by her (same person who outed the hulk- so i don't think it was betty).

Black Widow: Very well could be the traitor. But, if that is the case, then she didn't shoot hawkeye (she was busy with wedding plans). That would probably be Loki in Hawk's apt, posing as Cap. I support this theory because of what Thor said in #7: "Tell him he has one last chance before the other side retaliates." Who is this other side? Hydra? The Red Skull and his commie/nazi cronies? If it's the commies, then Widow is the traitor. If it is the Nazis (because of Red Skull and Chitauri) then it probably isn't Widow. If it is hydra, I doubt she is (unless she has ties wit them in the other 'verse). The commies would make sense since Ultimate Nightmare has come out, tying the Russians with the Ultimates (not to mention their own version of Capt. America).

I don't think Hydra is in ca-hoots with Loki and the traitor. This is The Ultimates, not Nick Fury, Agent of Shield. Hydra is small potatoes compared to Red Skull anyway.

Fury: Could be the traitor. Fits all the marks. The only thing is, he too makes mention of this "other side" in issue #8 as if they're his enemy. If he is not the traitor, maybe he thinks Cap is really Chitauri? Or maybe he also thinks they're commies as well.

Either way, I think this sets up vol. 3 to be the breaking off point of the Ultimates with SHIELD. SHIELD will lose their little nest-egg super-hero team and Avengers will go it alone, like they should be. Don't get me wrong. I love the SHIELD tie-ins. I just don't see it lasting.

Quickiesilver and his lesbo-robofetish-incestuous sister, Harlot Witch: Not traitors. They would rather just quit the Ultimates if they didn't like them, than to try and screw them up or be one of Loki's pawns.

So, like I said, I dont think anyone can make a sure, bonafide prediction. But, let me throw in some interesting theories of my own that no one has mentioned:

Valkerie: Yeah, we all know she was faking it. She wanted Hank to dress up like Cap because she had a spare suit in the closet! She's the one who shot Hawkeye. Or maybe I just want to see the thong-suit make another appearance.

Wolverine: He's in every other marvel issue. Why not the Ultimates?

Jarvis: He really has it in for Tony, being gay and all. He's trying to get rid of all the other super-heroes so he can have "lil townee-woahwnee all for his own". Just him, Tony, and the Village People all night long.

Bruce: Man, Millar would really be pulling this one out of his arse if he reveals that the hulk is the traitor.

[Exo]

Don't know if this has been posted yet but:

marvel.com (http://www.marvel.com/catalog/showcomic.htm?id=2993&format=comic)

THE STORY: “GRAND THEFT AMERICA”
With the devastating revelation of the traitor in the Ultimates, the team is reeling in shock! But even that sad situation can’t stop wedding bells from ringing for Tony “Iron Man” Stark and Natasha “Black Widow” Romanov.

Either Tony is a sucker for betrayals or Natasha was not the traitor.
EDIT: They could also have ment the recent arrest of Cap in #8 (which would make Black Widow a likely suspect afterall).

Also, is this the return of the Soviet Super Soldiers? (http://www.marvel.com/catalog/showcomic.htm?id=3341&format=comic)

http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/5557/ultmtsv2010cvrcmyk7kn.jpg

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Thank god that issue is part 4 of 6, because I'm really worried about that cover!

[Cash Lone]

I just FINALLY got my copy, heres some random thoughts:

My favorite scene is when Jan comes to Hank, says she finally left Cap and Hank yells "Quiet"! ah ah ha.

I hate the Wasp. She completely sucks. Not only is she toying emotionally w/ the greatest living WW2 war veteran but she called Bing Crosby records "stupid". Wasp = shallow whore.

Okay, Im thinking Tony is the traitor. I think back to who outed Banner as the Hulk. Who had the ability to leak top secret info? Why? When Banner was about to be nuked - Tony was the last one on the battleship - maybe to wake Banner up in time?

Tony is now building private war aircrafts? All of it kinda reminds me of Ozymandias from Watchmen. The part that doesnt really fit is the Death of Hawkeyes family - I dont see Tony as being a killer, but defo having an alterior motive.

[Rosie]

Thor is holding a sickle and hammer, Soviet symbols.

There is one thing nobody's though of - Ultimate Chameleon!

He is indeed Russian, and he can change shapes. He also has his own personal motive in that his half brother was captured by shield for changing his DNA. I believe HE was responsible for framing Captain America.

There is a whole team of operatives here -

Black Widow
Ultimate Ultron(stolen by BW from Hank Pym)
Ultimate Chameleon
Ultimate Omega Red(due to appear soon enough, so why not?)
Ultimate Abomination(as seen on #10's cover)

The last three being part of the Russian Super Soldier program.

Looking at the cover, it appears Thor may join up to fight against American imperiealism.

Also, do Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch creep anyone else out? Shame as I quite liked Scarlet Witch in UXM, but her relationship with Quicksilver is more like lovers than siblings :/ They're in their own little mutant world.

[Exo]

Thor is holding a sickle and hammer, Soviet symbols.

Actually, I believe the guy is none other than Vanguard (afterall, hammer & sickle is his M.O), the big ogre to the left is Ursa Major, the one with the red lights on the chest is Crimson Dynamo and what could be Red Guardian shaking his fist in the air. Then we have a woman holding two guns which could be Black Widow.

[Tre Styles]

it would be cool if it were Ultimate Mystique who was working with someone to take down the Ultimates.....she's a shapeshifter who has motivation, and lo and behold, she's in cahoots with magneto, whose son and daughter just happen to be Ultimates themselves.....then there's Natasha...hahaha...and the theories roll on....one more thought here: I think that whoever killed Hawkeye and his family THOUGHT Hawk was dead, but he wasn't, and that's why he's missing. He's going to come back and get this traitor....wait and see. Maybe.

[Rosie]

I think Ultimate Chameleon makes more sense.

[Cash Lone]

Heeeeeyyyyyy.... Did Scarlet Witch ever get her purse back? :confused:

[Arvandor]

Quickiesilver and his lesbo-robofetish-incestuous sister, Harlot Witch:

HA! Awesome description.

[Brian888]

Heeeeeyyyyyy.... Did Scarlet Witch ever get her purse back? :confused:


That's actually a very good question. We don't know. Did Quicksilver run back to the house in time to save Clint?

[nateslate8]

I guess the cover of #10 seems to answer most questions. At the very least we now know who "the other side" is. And I'm now 90% sure that Black Widow is the traitor.

We still don't know how they are in cahoots with Loki or what their plans with the Ultimates are.

Anyone else still want to contest the theory that it's not Black Widow?

[wet wookie]

Heeeeeyyyyyy.... Did Scarlet Witch ever get her purse back? :confused:
Of course that's what happened. Really obvious actually.

[oneasian]

I tried reading all of the other posts, but i got tired of it, and am here to give my two cents.

i dont think of this as a possible spoiler, but it may be considered to be one. I saw a couple other people mention the Ultimate Red Skull, and I agree with that. here's why i think why:





















in the regular marvel universe, red skull, i believe was said to have been cloned from captain america's body. so how much of a stretch is it for the Ultimate Red Skull to have been cloned from the Ultimate Cap? I dont know how they'll go about making him have a "red skull" but i think the cloning of captain america explains the video footage, and why it's described as a "wolf in the fold" because it is essentially Captain America running around, only underneath, its the red skull

[Drifter]

Don't know if this has been posted yet but:

marvel.com (http://www.marvel.com/catalog/showcomic.htm?id=2993&format=comic)



Either Tony is a sucker for betrayals or Natasha was not the traitor.
EDIT: They could also have ment the recent arrest of Cap in #8 (which would make Black Widow a likely suspect afterall).

Also, is this the return of the Soviet Super Soldiers? (http://www.marvel.com/catalog/showcomic.htm?id=3341&format=comic)

http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/5557/ultmtsv2010cvrcmyk7kn.jpg


Did they not keep thor's armor when they arrested him? or did it only work for him? cant quite remember. If this is the case though, then what we're looking at is maybe the Russians and their Super team, using the Thor armor, looks like their hulk-hybrid there and the woman holding the two guns could be Natasha?

[sherlockbones]

Did they not keep thor's armor when the arrested him? or did it only work for him? cant quite remember. If this is the case though, then what were looking at is maybe the Russians and their Super team, using the Thor armor, looks like their hulk-hybrid there and the woman holding the two guns could be natasha?


hulk-hybrid?
ultimate abomination?

[Drifter]

hulk-hybrid?
ultimate abomination?


ooooh good call, it even has the pointy ears like Abomination!

[ultramandingo]

dam commies! i wonder if they got a new ( or fixed up the old) red star after cap messed him all up ? and mabey a new blonde widow? and do i see a crimson dynamoe / titanium man? hows about dark star? what was the name of the original hammer and sickle guy? huh?

[sherlockbones]

dam commies! i wonder if they got a new ( or fixed up the old) red star after cap messed him all up ? and mabey a new blonde widow? and do i see a crimson dynamoe / titanium man? hows about dark star? what was the name of the original hammer and sickle guy? huh?


damn it, can t remember. but he did have really funky curled horns on his helmet!

[ultramandingo]

the red ghost would be cool . i wonder which ond faked out that dumb hippie thor (or wacked hawkeyes family , im betting on new blond widow)

[Drifter]

the red ghost would be cool . i wonder which ond faked out that dumb hippie thor (or wacked hawkeyes family , im betting on new blond widow)

hmm but didnt Hawkeye know the shooter? He said something along the lines of "I never did like you..." or am I mixing up 2 completly different stories? I tend to do that!

[ultramandingo]

hmm but didnt Hawkeye know the shooter? He said something along the lines of "I never did like you..." or am I mixing up 2 completly different stories? I tend to do that!


uh...they used to date? , any hoo...speaking of " 2 completly different stories" there was a cool seen of clint showing black widow how to use his bow in case he was dead and she was out of ammo in ult .secret #3 , ellis forshadowing?

[Drifter]

uh...they used to date? , any hoo...speaking of " 2 completly different stories" there was a cool seen of clint showing black widow how to use his bow in case he was dead and she was out of ammo in ult .secret #3 , ellis forshadowing?


ooooh, I thought you were reffering to a SECOND *new* Widow, like how 616 has the first Black Widow, and the "blonde" one they made to replace her over in Russia.

[ultramandingo]

ooooh, I thought you were reffering to a SECOND *new* Widow, like how 616 has the first Black Widow, and the "blonde" one they made to replace her over in Russia.
i kinda was . the ultimate version of the 616 one , till you pointed out the big hole in my briliant therory. unless( !) the blonde one put on a red wig when she ........ ah nevermind

[Magneto_X]

i kinda was . the ultimate version of the 616 one , till you pointed out the big hole in my briliant therory. unless( !) the blonde one put on a red wig when she ........ ah nevermind

Hmmmm.

Maybe it was the blonde Black Widow that shot Hawkeye. Posing as natasha?

That'd fit if the "Masters of Evil" are have Russians in their roster: like that Russian thunder god. It would make the woman holding the two guns on the future Ultimates cover Ult. BW II.

[ultramandingo]

Hmmmm.

Maybe it was the blonde Black Widow that shot Hawkeye. Posing as natasha?

That'd fit if the "Masters of Evil" are have Russians in their roster: like that Russian thunder god. It would make the woman holding the two guns on the future Ultimates cover Ult. BW II.



seeeee "the blonde one put on a red wig when she.." its just dumb enuff to work

[Chou Blaster]

ooooh good call, it even has the pointy ears like Abomination!


That Shadow sure as Hell looks like Ultimates Concept Art fo rthe Abonimaiton.

As Hulk: Ultimate Destruction was said to be a basis in the Ultimates.


Edit:

And who is the Traitor?

Because if Stark, the only reason would be hope so fhis tmor getting cured, by Loki or some other alien force. Not sure why otherwise.. I mean he is too busy getting married.

[darkkeeperjr]

The traitor is Tony Stark. Posting off the top of head now, no comics beside me.

Didn't tony had cancer in the head that was gonna kill him in a years time?

Why do tony need bigger war planes than the air force?

Tony not working for shield. Shield is working for tony! :eek:

[Moses]

In either The Crossing or Heroes Reborn, didn't it come out that 616 Tony had been under mind control from Kang pretty much since the beginning of the Avengers? I know that it was INCREDIBLY lame, but maybe if Tony is the traitor (hope not) that it's something along these lines. Still think it's Jan though. I think Loki's involvement is purely indepentdent, I think he just saw that the Ultimtes were being f---ed with, so thought that it would be funny to f--- with them some more. He is the trickster god after all.

[JuggernautRM]

Don't you think Tony might be making the Quintjet (spelling?)

[Chou Blaster]

I personaly think the Traitor is Hank Pym.

I mean he is crazy, feels everyone else makes him look small.

He well commited criems againist the Ultimates twice.

1; Beating Wasp to a coma.

2; He is the Reason Banner escaped (Or Hulk's system is that damn good.)

Plus he probaly framed Cap for Cap beating him to a pulp (Though he deserve dit, bastard.)

[Rosie]

I personaly think the Traitor is Hank Pym.

I mean he is crazy, feels everyone else makes him look small.

He well commited criems againist the Ultimates twice.

1; Beating Wasp to a coma.

2; He is the Reason Banner escaped (Or Hulk's system is that damn good.)

Plus he probaly framed Cap for Cap beating him to a pulp (Though he deserve dit, bastard.)

But he clearly talks to the traitor in one of the issues.

[Chou Blaster]

But he clearly talks to the traitor in one of the issues.


Oh darn.

:Snaps figners.:

Could be split personality though. (Yellow Jacket?)

But yeah thanks, I forgot.

[Rosie]

Kitty ^.^ Nyu.