I dare one of you to explain this to me

[bosshog7169]

Please please please respond to this message even though i just registered, because i am lost and need help. Let me preface this question with some brief background info. I am 23 years old and fairly well educated about comics history. However, I stopped reading comics entirely shortly after the death of superman fiasco and around the same time that marvel went bat@%#^ insane (lets say 1996). I recently returned to comics thanks to the hype surrounding the end of morrison's run on the x men and lee's run on hush. I quickly did everything i could to get back up to speed. I had always been much more of a marvel fan, but dc slowly pulled me in. The epic scope of "Countdown" finally pulled me over to the point where I am now a full fledged dc fan for the first time in my life. I have officially forsaken marvel and the xbooks i enjoyed so much in my childhood (i hate you chuck austen). Anyway, I have been readin all the Superman books since issue 200 of superman, and I have never been more excited about a comic as i am for infinite crisis. SO HERE'S WHERE I NEED SOME HELP! I love the continuity that dc has established and it seems to me that superman 200 as well as the superman/batman series started a new age for dc that I have completely embraced. However, I am having major problems understanding anythin that came before this. In addition, I still cannot seem to make any sense of "For tommorrow". So although I know it is important for you guys to keep this forum organized, I am going to just shoot out a list of questions and hope somebody answers at least one of them.

1) First and Foremost, Is there a site where i can find some sort of superman encyclopedia to explain all this convoluted stuff and get character bios and timelines and stuff? If there aint, there oughtabe

2) As Far as For Tommorrow goes, I have read the thread that posits all the events of this series could be tied to maxwell lord, and the insight you guys had into the omacs at the end helped. Hopefully dc will someday clear this up. I guess the thing that i am still really confused about is Zod. I only know him from the movies, and i can't find any evidence that he ever appeared in the comics before. So was this really him, Or just a creation of superman's mind? And if it was him, how did he get there and what is his past history. Along the same lines, who is this orr guy, and is he working for luthor or lord, or what. Very confusing stuff.

3) I am so confused about Luthor it is driving me crazy. I love what they are doing with him since his superman batman appearance, but prior to this i am lost. So i guess while i was away from comics, Luthor somehow became president (didn't anybody know that he was a bad dude?), then he was unseated by superman and batman. OK... so then who is this new president, and how doid luthor survive, and for that matter where does luthor:man of steel fit into all of this (I hate you azarello). I mean is lex luthor's reputation still good with the public, or do they know he's a bad dude too now. (And what's the deal with all the Brainiac tech in the city, I am glad they fixed that)

4) Finally, I don't understand why there are 18 different supergirls now. I guess loeb will explain this at some point but who was the one with the short brown hair in superman 200, and who is power girl, and where did peter david's supergirl fit into all of this?

Sorry for the unorganized question asking, but i really love what they are doin with superman and dc right now and i need some help to fully understand everything. Please help me as best you can or just tell me that this is all a bunch of convoluted crap that is not meant to be understood! Either way, thanks.

[Daniel Hopkins]

I still cannot seem to make any sense of "For tommorrow".
Join The Club! :confused:

If your trying to get ready for Infinite Crisis (from what i can gather) you really only have to read The Omac mini and The Superman Sacrifice Arc. As far as i can tell IC will breifly recap events building up to it.

Im not sure wether you have checked out The Infinite Crisis (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=1831756) FAQ board, even if you have, going through it again wont hurt.

Sorry I couldnt be more help.
:D Dan.

[Lorendiac]

1) First and Foremost, Is there a site where i can find some sort of superman encyclopedia to explain all this convoluted stuff and get character bios and timelines and stuff? If there aint, there oughtabe

You could try a site that I'm afraid I don't know as well as I should, because I haven't been paying much attention to the events in the modern Superman titles these last few years:

Superman Homepage (http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php)

That site might have resources to answer at least some of your questions.

Also, if you want to look for basic information about a specific character, this site might have listings for them (I like this one a lot, but I don't say it's always all caught up with the last year or two of published stories):

The Unofficial Guide to the DC Universe (http://www.dcuguide.com)

4) Finally, I don't understand why there are 18 different supergirls now. I guess loeb will explain this at some point but who was the one with the short brown hair in superman 200, and who is power girl, and where did peter david's supergirl fit into all of this?

Here I might actually be able to help out! You are definitely not the first person who has needed help to keep all the different Supergirls straight. :)

After seeing other people asking for help on sorting out that difficult topic, a few months ago I posted on this forum a big Timeline I'd researched and written, that tried to sort out, in chronological order, the First Appearances of any character who has ever been connected with Superman continuity and who called herself at least one of the following things:

Super-Girl
Supergirl
Superwoman
Power Girl
Kara

I also listed Final Appearances, in cases where a character had died, been retconned out of existence, retired from a costumed career, or whatever. (Several characters only appeared in a single story and then were totally forgotten for one reason or another.)

Here's the link:
Timeline of 1st Appearances of each Supergirl, Superwoman, Power Girl, Kara - 2nd Draft (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=65746)

When I list the comic book in which each lady first appeared, I try to give a quick summary of anything about the woman's powers, origin story, relationship to Superman, etc., that makes her "different" from the others.

For instance, I have two listings for Power Girl because I count each "origin story" (her Pre-Crisis one from her first appearance, and her Post-Crisis one from the late 1980s) as basically marking the beginning of a "different" character. (Some people may disagree with me.)

However, I am told that right now there is a new Power Girl orign being developed in the pages of "JSA Classified." I'm waiting until that is over and done with before I read up on it and try to make sense of it all, and include a summary of her Third Origin Story (whatever it turns out to be!) in the next draft of my Timeline.

Anyway, if you really want to know about the various Supergirls and so forth, my Timeline tries to explain the bare basics about every last one of them! (At the end of the Timeline, I provide short lists of all the characters who have used each name. There are 15 entries for the name "Supergirl" alone, several of whom no longer exist as part of the Official Continuity, but I put them on there anyway to be complete. :))

[Sean Whitmore]

Loren stepped up to #1 and #4, so I'll try and knock out the middle two. :)

I guess the thing that i am still really confused about is Zod. I only know him from the movies, and i can't find any evidence that he ever appeared in the comics before. So was this really him, Or just a creation of superman's mind? And if it was him, how did he get there and what is his past history.


Like Supergirl, there have been several different Zods over the years.

--The first Zod (along with his two buddies from the movie) came from an alternate reality--a "Pocket Universe"--where Clark was Superboy as a teen. Like the movie, Zod and the others were criminals from Krypton trapped in the Phantom Zone. They tricked Superboy into releasing them, and then the three Kryptonians wiped the planet clean of life. Superman was alerted to this Pocket Dimension by a being known as Matrix (also known as half of Peter David's Supergirl), and he made the decision to kill Zod and the others by exposing them to Kryptonite.

--The second Zod was actually a human cosmonaut who was imbued with Superman-like powers somehow (I forget). He took control of a country and kicked the crap out of Superman a few times before he was eventually killed.

--The third Zod is from yet ANOTHER alternate reality/time period, where Krypton didn't explode. There he was still a general, and he planned a coup against the leaders of Krypton. I forget if he died or not, but he doesn't exist anymore regardless.

--The fourth and final Zod from "For Tomorrow" seems to be OUR Zod. That is, he is from this reality and time period, same as Superman. He was sentenced to the Phantom Zone just like the movie version. And you read the story, so you know what happened to him. :)


Along the same lines, who is this orr guy, and is he working for luthor or lord, or what. Very confusing stuff.


That's where the recent Luthor mini loses me. Since that mini had to have taken place in the past, and since Luthor and Orr didn't exactly part on friendly terms, I think we have to assume that Orr wasn't working for Luthor in "For Tomorrow" (or at least didn't know he was).


So i guess while i was away from comics, Luthor somehow became president (didn't anybody know that he was a bad dude?)


Nope. As far as the world at large was concerned at the time, Luthor was just a generous businessman and philantropist, same as Bruce Wayne. :)


OK... so then who is this new president,


Pete Ross became president after Luthor went down, but then he turned the office over to Jonathan Horne.


and how doid luthor survive,


How does he ever? ;)


and for that matter where does luthor:man of steel fit into all of this (I hate you azarello). I mean is lex luthor's reputation still good with the public, or do they know he's a bad dude too now. (And what's the deal with all the Brainiac tech in the city, I am glad they fixed that)


I'm not entirely sure where the mini fits either, except it was obviously in the past, pre-presidency. In the here and now, Luthor was considered dead for awhile, until he resurfaced fighting the Teen Titans and the Outsiders. As for the Brainiac 13 tech, I believe it was gotten rid of in the mini series Superman: Metropolis.


SEAN

[bosshog7169]

wow that was easy. thanks for the input guys. Everything is a bit clearer now. So if Zod is a real person from superman's reality, and he remains trapped in the phantom zone, then that would mean there is a very good chance of him returning in some way, probably for infinite crisis right? That smile on Zod's face as he refuses superman's help and drifts back into the darkness of the phantom zone was creepy, and I always thought it indicated he knew something more about his situation. I mean he could have just been smiling because it was kind of a symbolic victory for him over Superman in some way, but to me it seemed like he had something up his sleeve with that smirk. I could just be reading to much into it. Either way i hope he is back soon, and i hope he keeps that armor, even if it is a Lord of the Rings ripoff because it was cool either way. Anyway thanks again.

[lucasb]

Let me add a little bit to Sean's Zod info.

Before Byrne rebooted the character in '86, Superman began his career as Superboy. The Phantom Zone was first introduceed in a Superboy story (you can read it online here:)
http://superman.ws/tales4/phantomsuperboy/
The PZ villains didn't appear in that story, but shortly thereafter they started turning up. Back then, the main PZ villain was named Jax-Ur. Zod was introduced around the same time, but he was just one of the background crowd, while Jax was the main badass. (Zod, in fact, wasn't even a real general, just a Kryptonian who discovered the Bizarro process and created an army of Bizarro duplicates of himself. He then declared himself a "general", tried to take over the planet, failed and was sentenced to the Phantom Zone.

Zod remained an inconsequential character until the movie. Not sure why they promoted him to top dog...maybe just because "Zod" sounds more badass than "Jax-Ur".

After the Byrne reboot, Superboy retroactivelly never existed in regular continuity, but he was still around in the artificially-created "Pocket Universe". This mini-verse was designed to resemble the Pre-Crisis (Pre-Byrne) setting of the 1960's, and it was replete with duplicates of the old Phantom Zone badguys. This Zod LOOKED just like the original, but (possibly because this was after the movie) he was much more of a mover and shaker...in fact, he'd taken Jax-Ur's role as leader of the other Phantom Zone badguys.

[Sean Whitmore]

I should also add that I got the orders of the second and third Zod mixed up.

The Zod from the "fake" Krypton (the same place Krypto came from) came before the cosmonaut. :)


SEAN