Young Avengers Question

[Mia]

Heard about this book on another MB and I want to check it out. But there were two things that I wanted to find out before I make a trek to the comic store and fork out money.

I understand there are two gay characters in this book. I’m a bit curious as to how they are written/portrayed. Is it like Ellis’ original portrayal of Apollo and the Midnighter in the Authority in that they were just two characters on a team. No better or worse than anyone else. Or are they used as thinly veiled civics lessons on ‘Political Correctness’ by author. (Think Winnick’s run on the Green Lantern or Rucka’s use of Montoya in Gotham Central.)

Also couldn’t help but notice the woman who’s costume looks way similar to a certain DC character (check my avatar). Does the similarity end in their taste in wardrobe…or does it extend beneath the skin.

Thanks.

[twilight]

Also couldn’t help but notice the woman who’s costume looks way similar to a certain DC character (check my avatar). Does the similarity end in their taste in wardrobe…or does it extend beneath the skin.

Well She does use a bow and arrow which is similar to Huntress crossbow but beyond that I couldn't tell you.

[Gaz]

Heard about this book on another MB and I want to check it out. But there were two things that I wanted to find out before I make a trek to the comic store and fork out money.

I understand there are two gay characters in this book. I’m a bit curious as to how they are written/portrayed. Is it like Ellis’ original portrayal of Apollo and the Midnighter in the Authority in that they were just two characters on a team. No better or worse than anyone else. Or are they used as thinly veiled civics lessons on ‘Political Correctness’ by author. (Think Winnick’s run on the Green Lantern or Rucka’s use of Montoya in Gotham Central.)

Also couldn’t help but notice the woman who’s costume looks way similar to a certain DC character (check my avatar). Does the similarity end in their taste in wardrobe…or does it extend beneath the skin.

Thanks.

While I don't necessarily agree with you on Rucka (and Winnick's track record makes me skeptical of that assessment too, but I don't read GA), the use has been very similar in execution to Ellis, where their reltionship is addressed but it's only one of several facets of the characters.
And Kate is not dissimilar to Huntress. They both have powerful fathers who they rebel against to some degree, they're both very take-charge and they both take no crap from any of the boys' club. OTOH, Kate is much less of a loner and is the one truly invested in keeping the team together, whether it be through money, hideouts, pep-talks or a good old-fahsioned verbal ass-kicking.

[Mia]

Gaz I haven’t seen you in a long time! Nice to hear from you! Thank for the input
what you have said sounds right up my alley and encourages me to give the book a look. I never liked The Authority, but the best thing I got out of it was the (original) portrayal of A&M. Though the later portrayals by other authors left me cold. Millar seemed to make veiled pot shots. And Robbie Morrison seemed to make them too soft (ie. Domesticated)

When I mentioned Rucka and Winnick above. I meant that both authors seemed to have tackled gay story lines in that when some misfortune befell the gay character the world should come to a complete stop.

I dropped GCPD after seeing Montoya have hissy fit in front of her boss because some of her colleagues discovered she was a lesbian and they weren’t being nice to her. I mean this is supposed to be a grown adult and professional woman in one of the cities toughest police forces and now she can’t cope? And watching her bad mouth her mother and father basically reducing them to being ignorant was major turn off as well.

And during Winnick’s run on GL, Kyle’s assistant Terry gets beaten up for being gay. And Kyle decides to leave earth and sulk. I mean people get beaten up and abused everyday where was his concern then?

Both stories were a turn off and I was wondering if the YA was more of the same. But it doesn’t look like it. Not too keen on teenage characters but I’ll give it a go.

Thanks

[Gaz]

Not being keen on teen heroes means you're missing out on Marvel's 2 best titles and several good minis. This and Runaways are outstanding. Gravity is excellent, New Warriors is good and Livewires and Spellbinders were great.
(BTW, the blow-up in Gotham? Maggie Sawyer is also gay, so that kinda played as Renee's upbringing more than anything, Maggie basically told her to get the hell over it and talk to her friends for support, and she reconciled with her dad a few issues back...)

[TCJohnson]

Actually, I used to say that I am not to keen on teen titles but now I find myself enjoying teen titles the best. Young Avengers is my favorite comic, Legion of Super Heroes is my second and Runaways is somewhere in the top 5. Gravity is also very entertaining.

Other than they are female heroes who rely on natural athletics in combat, I don't see many similiarities between Huntress and Kate Bishop. Huntress is a super hero because of anger and vengence while Kate became a super hero out of a sense of adventure and to prove that she could be one. Also, except for the color purple I don't see much of a similiarity between the two costumes.

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0508/16/youngavengers10.jpg

[Steven F.]

Heard about this book on another MB and I want to check it out. But there were two things that I wanted to find out before I make a trek to the comic store and fork out money.

I understand there are two gay characters in this book. I’m a bit curious as to how they are written/portrayed. Is it like Ellis’ original portrayal of Apollo and the Midnighter in the Authority in that they were just two characters on a team. No better or worse than anyone else. Or are they used as thinly veiled civics lessons on ‘Political Correctness’ by author. (Think Winnick’s run on the Green Lantern or Rucka’s use of Montoya in Gotham Central.)

Also couldn’t help but notice the woman who’s costume looks way similar to a certain DC character (check my avatar). Does the similarity end in their taste in wardrobe…or does it extend beneath the skin.

Thanks.

They are written as totally "normal" characters. Being gay is not what they are, they are teenagers.....and they happen to be gay. I love the way they are written so far.

[TCJohnson]

They are written as totally "normal" characters. Being gay is not what they are, they are teenagers.....and they happen to be gay. I love the way they are written so far.

Actually until last issue they were written so that there was some question that they were gay.

[StoneGold]

Actually until last issue they were written so that there was some question that they were gay.
Hell, it was still fairly sub-textual in the last issue. At least, if you were completly clueless, you still could have not picked it up, like all the gay undertones in X2. That said, you never know, it could be more of an issue in the future.

[TCJohnson]

The writer of the book is gay, and it is hard to write something without putting in some of your own beliefs.

[StoneGold]

The writer of the book is gay, and it is hard to write something without putting in some of your own beliefs.
Oh, don't get me wrong, they're gay. Just last issue was the first one they were even really dropping even indirect references at it, beyond the stare from the first issue.

[TCJohnson]

Oh, don't get me wrong, they're gay. Just last issue was the first one they were even really dropping even indirect references at it, beyond the stare from the first issue.

Oh, I understand what you are saying. I was just addressing the, "it could be more of an issue in the future." Since the writer is gay I say there is a decent chance.

[Mia]

I understand that everyone on the team has been paired off who is this Kate paired with? (and since I don't know the names of each character can someone point out in the posted picture who it is?)

[brian2322]

I understand that everyone on the team has been paired off who is this Kate paired with? (and since I don't know the names of each character can someone point out in the posted picture who it is?)

well she isnt paired off yet but she will probaly but going out with patriot

[Mia]

I take it that's the Black guy with the sheild?

[TCJohnson]

I take it that's the Black guy with the sheild?


Yes. (spoilers of the first six issues if you plan on getting them, but stuff you need to know if you want to read #7)

He is the grandson of Isaiah Bradley, an early test subject in the super soldier program. Patriot was stabbed in a fight and lost a lot of blood. The only one with his bloodtype available was his grandfather and through the transfusion got the super soldier serum. Patriot also uses throwing stars shaped like the american flag. He is a bit of an arrogant jerk but understands teamwork better than anybody else on the team, especially the "no man left behind" thinking.

Kate Bishop doesn't have a code name. The writer said this would be addressed in #7 and #8. She is the daughter of a rich industrialist. Her sister's wedding was interupted by men with guns who wanted to hold the guests hostage. the Young Avengers came in to save them but bungled it and became hostages themselves. Kate saved the day by using one of the throwing starts to distract the criminals long enough to the Young Avengers to finish them off. Kate wanted a thank you but Patriot refused because he had trouble dealing with the fact that his life was saved by a non-super powered woman. Everything that has happened since was a result of Kate trying to show Patriot that she can be just as good a crime fighter as he is...and she really is. Besides having a natural ability with the bow, she has more common sense then the rest of the team put together.

The guy with a cloak and metal headban is now known as Wiccan. He is able to channel magical forces. Right now he is best at using this magic to generate electricity and fly, but he has a lot more powers than that...he just doesn't understand them. Wiccan is a very sweet guy who means well, but does not have much confidence in himself or his abilities...which could be a problem because his magic works when he believes it can work.

The guy with the blonde hair and green skin is Hulkling, Wiccan's boyfriend. He is a shape changer with limited super strength and self-healing abilities. He usually assumes an appearance similiar to the Hulk since the Hulk is his favorite avenger (all the Young Avengers have a strong streak of fanboy geek!) He has also assumed the appearance of Ironlad and has grown amorerd scales and claws on his arms. We don't know his origin yet either.

The large girl in the background is Stature. She is Cassie Lang, the daughter of Scott Lang, the Antman. It turns out that she has been playing around with Pymparticles behind her father's back for years, hoping to become a super hero herself. When her father died she wanted to become Antgirl to honor his memory, but learned she had the ability to grow as well as shrink.

Finally there is Vision. A character named IronLad gownloaded the Visions CPU into his armor. It later turned out that the Vision program could take over the armor and animate it. When Ironlad had to leave the team, the Vision program permanently took over the armor.

Oh, and so far only two of them have paired off, but as somebody already said, there is a good chance Patriot and Kate Bishop will. They have an adversarial relationship, kind of like the one at the biginning of the TV series moonlighting or the one between Sam and Diane on cheers.

[Mia]

Thanks TC for typing all that out. It was very generous. Seems like a ton of history, but I'm sure I'll get it.


Will I get this.....I've asked a CS owner I know to put aside #6 for the (the only copy he has). So I'll take a look at it later this evening.

I read the interview with the writer you posted with AH. Him being a writer on OC and a former fan of Seth Cohen (by the way I stopped watching because his immaturity turned me off) left me a bit dicey on whether I want to pick this up long term. On the surface there are a few things I have a problem with...the book seems to point towards political correctness.
But basically I will have to look at the book itself before drawing a final conclusion. However the praise I've seen for it on various threads is telling me it is a must. It's very rare to hear so much praise on a comic book than the usual bytching and whinning.

[TCJohnson]

I don't get a wiff of politcal correctness. they have gay characters and black characters and female characters, but they all have their place and none of them see to be there just to be politically correct. And the only place they have talked about acceptance (kinda) is the letter columns.

And I hate the OC.

[Gaz]

I don't get a wiff of politcal correctness. they have gay characters and black characters and female characters, but they all have their place and none of them see to be there just to be politically correct. And the only place they have talked about acceptance (kinda) is the letter columns.

And I hate the OC.
It's one of these things where if you list the cast and their basic characteristics it could seem very PC and dull, but it isn't at all how the story has been written.

[Mia]

Well I took a look at the book and have to saythat I can't stick with it as there aren't enough hetro sexual white males to keep me interested :D !


......(heh!) Apart from that, I really found the book too juvenile for my tastes. It reminded me (partly) why I dropped Spiderman three years ago. These kids are doing things that I grew out of. I find their naivety annoying.

I think the book is no way as dry as the Teen Titans. But still it does not measure up to my adult and worldly tastes. This book is for kids. Tim "Robin" Drake and Cassie "Batgirl" Kane are teenagers too but neither of them act like kids. Not to keen on reading about teenagers who act like teenagers.


And TC's right this Kate is nothing like Huntress. Why the artist (besides the obvious) decided to copy her look is beyond me.


And none of the women on the team have that endearing quality I admire in all my favourite comic book heroines. They aren't 'steel in a velvet glove'. Or to be crude they don't have that "Do not f*ck with me" quality my favourite heroines (and heroes have). Too O.C' ish. AH said that by time he left the O.C. his favourite character was Summer and it shows in his portrayal of the girls in this book.


I did read some of the letters in the column (TC that is you right?) and while I agree, from what I have read, that AH does not seem to be pushing a gay rights agenda in YA. I have to wonder why he bothers to spend so much time responding or publishing letters in regards to homosexuality--- When it is obviously it is only a *tiny* component of the overall comic.

He certainly is far more polite and classy than Judd Winnick and Greg Rucka were in responding to objections to the topic of homosexuality in the book. But to publish four letter pages (I didn't get issue 5) was a bit exceesive and giving the topic more weight than it deserves. No need to respond with a "You don't like it drop it." But I think he should just move on to another topic. There are more valid things going on the book to discuss.

Anyway I'll just stick with the (adult) New Avengers. But I hope Alan has a lot of luck. He has talent and I tend to support creators who are nice to their fan base. Maybe if he writes a book geared more at adults I'll give him another chance.

[Gaz]

Well I took a look at the book and have to saythat I can't stick with it as there aren't enough hetro sexual white males to keep me interested :D !


......(heh!) Apart from that, I really found the book too juvenile for my tastes. It reminded me (partly) why I dropped Spiderman three years ago. These kids are doing things that I grew out of. I find their naivety annoying.

I think the book is no way as dry as the Teen Titans. But still it does not measure up to my adult and worldly tastes. This book is for kids. Tim "Robin" Drake and Cassie "Batgirl" Kane are teenagers too but neither of them act like kids. Not to keen on reading about teenagers who act like teenagers.


And TC's right this Kate is nothing like Huntress. Why the artist (besides the obvious) decided to copy her look is beyond me.


And none of the women on the team have that endearing quality I admire in all my favourite comic book heroines. They aren't 'steel in a velvet glove'. Or to be crude they don't have that "Do not f*ck with me" quality my favourite heroines (and heroes have). Too O.C' ish. AH said that by time he left the O.C. his favourite character was Summer and it shows in his portrayal of the girls in this book.
.
That's an odd criticism, because it seems very jarring to read Robin as a mini-30 year old. If he's 17, he should ACT 17, because, y'know, he's 17!
Where's the fun in reading about a teen hero if they don't act their age. If I want to read about a cool, tough chick in her 30s, I'll read Catwoman or BoP. If I wanna see a teenage girl struggle with her crap trying to figure out who she wants to be, then I read Batgirl (which IS very much a teen book, with characterisation to match)
Kate uses a bow. Thus her look is more likely to be patterned after Hawkeye, actually. Which it is more similar too anyway.

[K'Nort]

That's an odd criticism, because it seems very jarring to read Robin as a mini-30 year old. If he's 17, he should ACT 17, because, y'know, he's 17!
Where's the fun in reading about a teen hero if they don't act their age. If I want to read about a cool, tough chick in her 30s, I'll read Catwoman or BoP. If I wanna see a teenage girl struggle with her crap trying to figure out who she wants to be, then I read Batgirl (which IS very much a teen book, with characterisation to match).

It's an odd criticism, but not an unusual one. Some people don't like too much realism in their fantasy. That's why it's good to have such a range out there -- so many different tastes. And no idea how old Mia is, but people in their early 20s want teens acting like adults for their own growing-up issues. Every time they do something immature, you wince and feel embarassed. At 34, I'm only able to like teen teams again in the last couple years.

[StoneGold]

And TC's right this Kate is nothing like Huntress. Why the artist (besides the obvious) decided to copy her look is beyond me.

.
It's more a matter of whom the Huntress outfit was copied off of first.

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/features/images/nicieza/hawkeye.jpg

[ocelotrevs]

Yes. (spoilers of the first six issues if you plan on getting them, but stuff you need to know if you want to read #7)...

Oh, and so far only two of them have paired off, but as somebody already said, there is a good chance Patriot and Kate Bishop will. They have an adversarial relationship, kind of like the one at the biginning of the TV series moonlighting or the one between Sam and Diane on cheers.
There was also a scene where they were pretty close. I think it was in YA 5#

[Gaz]

It's an odd criticism, but not an unusual one. Some people don't like too much realism in their fantasy. That's why it's good to have such a range out there -- so many different tastes. And no idea how old Mia is, but people in their early 20s want teens acting like adults for their own growing-up issues. Every time they do something immature, you wince and feel embarassed. At 34, I'm only able to like teen teams again in the last couple years.
I'm all for range. That's why the Outsiders and Nightwing exist, isn't it? A 20something team/hero?
And Gravity has the potential to be that character for Marvel. (Not sure about the team, maybe the Warriors?)

[Mia]

That's an odd criticism, because it seems very jarring to read Robin as a mini-30 year old. If he's 17, he should ACT 17, because, y'know, he's 17!
Where's the fun in reading about a teen hero if they don't act their age. If I want to read about a cool, tough chick in her 30s, I'll read Catwoman or BoP. If I wanna see a teenage girl struggle with her crap trying to figure out who she wants to be, then I read Batgirl (which IS very much a teen book, with characterisation to match)
Kate uses a bow. Thus her look is more likely to be patterned after Hawkeye, actually. Which it is more similar too anyway.

If Tim Drake acted like your averge 17 year old he wouldn't be Robin in the first place. It's highly unlikely that given the recklessness and impulsivity of Jason Todd. Bruce would have taken on an average immature and not too bright teenage boy to be Robin. Again.

It's an odd criticism, but not an unusual one. Some people don't like too much realism in their fantasy. That's why it's good to have such a range out there -- so many different tastes. And no idea how old Mia is, but people in their early 20s want teens acting like adults for their own growing-up issues. Every time they do something immature, you wince and feel embarassed. At 34, I'm only able to like teen teams again in the last couple years.


You and I are fairly close in age. To be frank I'm not too wild about kids and teenagers period. I just didn't know that the characters in this book would be written like your garden variety teenager who hangs out at the mall. I thought given the praise the book was getting it would be more sophisticated.

It's more a matter of whom the Huntress outfit was copied off of first.




I thought her costume was a variation on a cardinals cassock.

[Gaz]

If Tim Drake acted like your averge 17 year old he wouldn't be Robin in the first place. It's highly unlikely that given the recklessness and impulsivity of Jason Todd. Bruce would have taken on an average immature and not too bright teenage boy to be Robin. Again.




You and I are fairly close in age. To be frank I'm not too wild about kids and teenagers period. I just didn't know that the characters in this book would be written like your garden variety teenager who hangs out at the mall. I thought given the praise the book was getting it would be more sophisticated.




I thought her costume was a variation on a cardinals cassock.
The markings, yes, but the color scheme and mask?
And that aspect of the writing IS why it's getting praised, same with Runaways, really.

[K'Nort]

And that aspect of the writing IS why it's getting praised, same with Runaways, really.

I agree. I think the fact that these are credible teens makes the writing more sophisticated, not less. There are plenty of 20-something characters already out there. And there's a sense of humour! We need that!

And I LOOOVVVEE Runaways.

[Gaz]

I agree. I think the fact that these are credible teens makes the writing more sophisticated, not less. There are plenty of 20-something characters already out there. And there's a sense of humour! We need that!

And I LOOOVVVEE Runaways.
Not to get all geekly, but Molly pwns ALL! :D
And Vaughn, if you're reading, Karolina better be in #9, I'm warning you!

[brian2322]

wats happenin wit vision?

[Mia]

The markings, yes, but the color scheme and mask?
And that aspect of the writing IS why it's getting praised, same with Runaways, really.


I see no similarity in the colour scheme to Hawkeye's. Either the pre-crisis one, the Contagion one, or the Jim Lee one or the current one. They both wear purple, so do other charcters. And I thought the mask was a variation on Batman's cowl.

As for the praise of the book from what I've read it seems to be divided between stuff happens every issue and it deals with "real" teenagers. I find that the dialogue by writers such as Gail Simone,Brian Michael Bendis, Marc Andreyko and Will Pheiffer is much better than this.

Unfortunetly the book reads a bit too much like a teen night time soap (ie. the OC, Beverly Hills 90210) for my tastes. And I don't really find it that compelling.

I also tend to gravitate towards characters who are more confident and who have their act together. These characters act a bit too much like bumbling teens. And if I want that, I can walk over to my local high school or the mall and get it for free from watching the teenagers.

[Charagon]

I also tend to gravitate towards characters who are more confident and who have their act together. These characters act a bit too much like bumbling teens. And if I want that, I can walk over to my local high school or the mall and get it for free from watching the teenagers.

I see. You want these new crime fighters, that only recently got their powers and have so far only had two experiences in fighting crime (unless you count Patriot's solo car jacking gig) to be acting like vets who've been at it for years and have seen it all.

Gotcha.

[Gaz]

wats happenin wit vision?
He's now booted up in a version of Kang's armour.
He seems to have his memory but his personality seems to be back at blank slate.

[Mia]

I also tend to gravitate towards characters who are more confident and who have their act together. These characters act a bit too much like bumbling teens. And if I want that, I can walk over to my local high school or the mall and get it for free from watching the teenagers.

I see. You want these new crime fighters, that only recently got their powers and have so far only had two experiences in fighting crime (unless you count Patriot's solo car jacking gig) to be acting like vets who've been at it for years and have seen it all.

Gotcha.

Different strokes for different folks.

[TCJohnson]

I see. You want these new crime fighters, that only recently got their powers and have so far only had two experiences in fighting crime (unless you count Patriot's solo car jacking gig) to be acting like vets who've been at it for years and have seen it all.

Gotcha.

She also tends to get upset with Gail Simone whenever her favorite character, Huntress, makes a mistake or shows any character flaws. She wants her heroes to be perfect. But as she said, different strokes for different folks.

[Mia]

She also tends to get upset with Gail Simone whenever her favorite character, Huntress, makes a mistake or shows any character flaws. She wants her heroes to be perfect. But as she said, different strokes for different folks.

CORRECTION

This must be a mis-reading on your part, as I have never stated that I want my heroes being perfect. If I did I would be collecting Superman and Wonder Woman. And I don't.

All my heroes have faults and shortcommings. Plenty of them. I tend to get upset when Gail Simone (or some other author for that matter) writes a character with flaws that are inherently outside their character . Batman, has many faults but murdering is not one of them. So to portray him as a killer and a murderer, would not be in character. Understand?

So please, if you are going to accuse me of something, please accuse me of something I actually said. Not something you made up in your head.

Thank you.

[TCJohnson]

Wow. Get overly deffensive do you?

I didn't accuse you of anything. That is how your posts and complaints come across. Especially when your complaint about Young Avengers is that they are not acting like seasoned professionals after being super heros for a couple of weeks. ANd you get mad at Gail whenever Huntress shows any character flaws. So yes, this is based onthings you have said. Maybe you should read over your own posts before whining and accusing others of lying.

[K'Nort]

I definitely want to see amateur heroes acting like amateurs. Regardless of age. And teens acting like teens intead of adults. Not only is it much more realistic, it's something you can relate to. Along the lines of imagining what would happen if you suddenly had powers yourself. Like in the first Spider-Man movie where he's banging into walls and such instead of being instantly acrobatic. That's much better writing. And more unique too. I want to be able to tell my books and characters apart dialogue-wise.

[Harold of the Rocks]

So please, if you are going to accuse me of something, please accuse me of something I actually said. Not something you made up in your head.

So if I may ask (not 'accuse') you about something you did write ('said')...(with Harold's highlights)...

I did read some of the letters in the column (TC that is you right?) and while I agree, from what I have read, that AH does not seem to be pushing a gay rights agenda in YA. I have to wonder why he bothers to spend so much time responding or publishing letters in regards to homosexuality--- When it is obviously it is only a *tiny* component of the overall comic.

He certainly is far more polite and classy than Judd Winnick and Greg Rucka were in responding to objections to the topic of homosexuality in the book. But to publish four letter pages (I didn't get issue 5) was a bit excessive and giving the topic more weight than it deserves. No need to respond with a "You don't like it drop it." But I think he should just move on to another topic. There are more valid things going on the book to discuss.


Did you mean to say that the letter pages from four issues were devoted to the topic of homosexuality? If so, I disagree. There are letters from people talking about Kate's attitude and character, Patriot's character and role as a racial minority, Jim Cheung's artwork, how pleasantly surprised readers were that this turned out to be more than just a 'Teen Avengers' ripoff (and some that didn't like it as it validates Bendis' 'Disassembled') and other feedback on the art and plot elements. That's only in issues 3,4, & 6 (which presumably you have). Issue #5's letters continued where the letters in #4 were going, which is to debate the nature of comics as art (do they/should they be a commentary on society, etc.). Some people used the homosexuality issue as a way to discuss other 'minorities' and how they are portrayed in various media.

If you meant issue #4 was entirely devoted to the sexuality of Hulkling and TAFKAA (The Artist Formerly Known As Asgardian) - now Wiccan, I would point out that while all of the letters touched on this, again, the letters reflected a diverse interpretation of 'the issue'. Allow me to paraphrase the five letters in this issues letter pages...
1) Our very own TCJohnson... - Thought the Young Avengers concept was a bad idea, but your writing and Mr.Cheung's art convinced me, one of my faves now. Keep the sex (homo, hetero, or techno) out of this all-ages book, but romance (homo, hetero, or techno) is okay. Fair translation, TC?
2) Great book, hoping Hulkling and Asgardian are gay, gays are under-represented in comic books. People's interest in this book is built around the mystery of who these kids are...
3) Love the writing and art. Shouldn't art reflect society? Why is it only okay to portray heteros romantically and sexually in comics?
4) Great book, usually Marvel hasn't developed their gay characters very well. A gay teen like myself is encouraged about being accepted when I see gay characters in a book being accepted.
5) Pleasantly surprised, thought this book would be lame. Don't care about Hulkling and Asgardian's sexuality either way. Why shouldn't comics be an outlet for getting people to discuss sensitive issues amongst the readership? To say otherwise is to insist that comics should only be for children. Not all books neeed to be for mature readers, either. It's possible to present issues in a manner that is neither offensive nor oversimplified. Fiction should reflect life -- complex and nuanced. Comics are entertainment like other forms of media, and should be treated as such. The stories about humans who 'happen to have' superpowers are what make for great comics.

-- So as you can see, the subject of sexuality was really a springboard for a discussion on the role of comics in society, not a back and forth about 'gay is evil, gay is good'. You can bet Allan Heinberg received plenty of letters that essentially praised or villified his story and characterizations in ridiculous fashions. Nor was it a 'I do (or don't) think they're gay' sounding board. The topic of homosexuality was most prevalent in issue #4, but even there, the letters presented were articulate, intelligent, well thought-out responses that elevated the concept to a higher level. Saying it was only about homosexuality is an oversimplification and misinterpretation of the material presented. To say the topic got more attention than it deserves doesn't make much sense when you see that the topic of homosexuality actually developed into a larger topic. And what topics do you consider to be more relevant? Character origin speculation? I think the topic of the role comic books should or should not play in society is actually a lot more interesting than "When are we gonna see Kang again?" or "I think Hulkling is a skrull...", etc.

Please don't get all upset at me, I really am just trying to understand your posts, as the phrase you used "to publish four letter pages " isn't clear to me... I interpret that as you saying "the letters in four issues" which is to me you not reading the letters pages in four issues very closely (because the implication is that the entire letters page in each issue is devoted to that subject only -- which is not true). Now if you meant that there was at least one letter on each letter page in four different issues that discussed the characters' sexuality, that is a little more reasonable. But then your statement that it is getting more attention than it deserves doesn't make sense to me. I'm just trying to understand. And I don't really care if you like Young Avengers or not... it's not my crusade to convince you what to read. I am also curious what 'more valid things' are going on in the book (and I'm not saying there aren't, I'm just wondering what you think are the 'more valid things'). I would argue that the personality traits of two of the team's membership and potential romantic relationship are quite 'valid'. Just as Hank and Janet's, Vision and Wanda's, Simon and Wanda's, relationships (could go on and on) were pretty 'valid' topics during the Avengers history.

Just askin'...

[TCJohnson]

Mia,

Let's call a truce. I did not mean to accuse you of anything, that is how your posts have come across to me. If I was mistaken please feel free to correct me but let's be polite, ok? I don't think I have ever been rude to you, did not mean to be rude in that post. No need to accuse me of making things up in my head. A simple, "you are mistaken. What I prefer is...." would have been fine.

1) Our very own TCJohnson... - Thought the Young Avengers concept was a bad idea, but your writing and Mr.Cheung's art convinced me, one of my faves now. Keep the sex (homo, hetero, or techno) out of this all-ages book, but romance (homo, hetero, or techno) is okay. Fair translation, TC?

That was me and that's about right. :)

I think that one of the reasons AH is publishing so many letters about the gay characters is that he recieved so many. Actually, in #2 he published a letter from somebody who said homosexuality does not belong in comics, and that is what started off the whole letter storm. To be fair to AH, I thought he did a good job at publishing letters from both sides of the argument.

By the way:

Patriot's character and role as a racial minority,

That was also my letter. My goal in life is to have a letter published in every even issue of Young Avengers. I have a very, very sad life. :(

[Harold of the Rocks]

...That was also my letter. My goal in life is to have a letter published in every even issue of Young Avengers. I have a very, very sad life. :(

I remember reading some of my old school Marvels from back in the late 70's and noticing that a certain Kurt Busiek was a frequent contributor on a few different comics. Don't know if you have the creative talents or desires TC, but maybe...just maybe... :)

[Mia]

So if I may ask (not 'accuse') you about something you did write ('said')...(with Harold's highlights)...



Did you mean to say that the letter pages from four issues were devoted to the topic of homosexuality? If so, I disagree. There are letters from people talking about Kate's attitude and character, Patriot's character and role as a racial minority, Jim Cheung's artwork, how pleasantly surprised readers were that this turned out to be more than just a 'Teen Avengers' ripoff (and some that didn't like it as it validates Bendis' 'Disassembled') and other feedback on the art and plot elements. That's only in issues 3,4, & 6 (which presumably you have). Issue #5's letters continued where the letters in #4 were going, which is to debate the nature of comics as art (do they/should they be a commentary on society, etc.). Some people used the homosexuality issue as a way to discuss other 'minorities' and how they are portrayed in various media.

If you meant issue #4 was entirely devoted to the sexuality of Hulkling and TAFKAA (The Artist Formerly Known As Asgardian) - now Wiccan, I would point out that while all of the letters touched on this, again, the letters reflected a diverse interpretation of 'the issue'. Allow me to paraphrase the five letters in this issues letter pages...
1) Our very own TCJohnson... - Thought the Young Avengers concept was a bad idea, but your writing and Mr.Cheung's art convinced me, one of my faves now. Keep the sex (homo, hetero, or techno) out of this all-ages book, but romance (homo, hetero, or techno) is okay. Fair translation, TC?
2) Great book, hoping Hulkling and Asgardian are gay, gays are under-represented in comic books. People's interest in this book is built around the mystery of who these kids are...
3) Love the writing and art. Shouldn't art reflect society? Why is it only okay to portray heteros romantically and sexually in comics?
4) Great book, usually Marvel hasn't developed their gay characters very well. A gay teen like myself is encouraged about being accepted when I see gay characters in a book being accepted.
5) Pleasantly surprised, thought this book would be lame. Don't care about Hulkling and Asgardian's sexuality either way. Why shouldn't comics be an outlet for getting people to discuss sensitive issues amongst the readership? To say otherwise is to insist that comics should only be for children. Not all books neeed to be for mature readers, either. It's possible to present issues in a manner that is neither offensive nor oversimplified. Fiction should reflect life -- complex and nuanced. Comics are entertainment like other forms of media, and should be treated as such. The stories about humans who 'happen to have' superpowers are what make for great comics.

-- So as you can see, the subject of sexuality was really a springboard for a discussion on the role of comics in society, not a back and forth about 'gay is evil, gay is good'. You can bet Allan Heinberg received plenty of letters that essentially praised or villified his story and characterizations in ridiculous fashions. Nor was it a 'I do (or don't) think they're gay' sounding board. The topic of homosexuality was most prevalent in issue #4, but even there, the letters presented were articulate, intelligent, well thought-out responses that elevated the concept to a higher level. Saying it was only about homosexuality is an oversimplification and misinterpretation of the material presented. To say the topic got more attention than it deserves doesn't make much sense when you see that the topic of homosexuality actually developed into a larger topic. And what topics do you consider to be more relevant? Character origin speculation? I think the topic of the role comic books should or should not play in society is actually a lot more interesting than "When are we gonna see Kang again?" or "I think Hulkling is a skrull...", etc.

Please don't get all upset at me, I really am just trying to understand your posts, as the phrase you used "to publish four letter pages " isn't clear to me... I interpret that as you saying "the letters in four issues" which is to me you not reading the letters pages in four issues very closely (because the implication is that the entire letters page in each issue is devoted to that subject only -- which is not true). Now if you meant that there was at least one letter on each letter page in four different issues that discussed the characters' sexuality, that is a little more reasonable. But then your statement that it is getting more attention than it deserves doesn't make sense to me. I'm just trying to understand. And I don't really care if you like Young Avengers or not... it's not my crusade to convince you what to read. I am also curious what 'more valid things' are going on in the book (and I'm not saying there aren't, I'm just wondering what you think are the 'more valid things'). I would argue that the personality traits of two of the team's membership and potential romantic relationship are quite 'valid'. Just as Hank and Janet's, Vision and Wanda's, Simon and Wanda's, relationships (could go on and on) were pretty 'valid' topics during the Avengers history.

Just askin'...

Not quite sure what you are getting at. But what I was basically trying to say is that in the letters I read (I didn't get issue 5) most of them focused on the gay related stuff etc.

I did not mean to imply that the only letters in the book centered around the topic of homosexuality. But there certainly was a great perpondrance when the gay stuff was only a small portion of the story. As far as I am concerned it was a 'non issue' and really there were other interesting things to be hit on.

Like I mentioned above for various reasons this book isn't my "cup of tea". But as I'm a supporter of good (read nice) creators in this industry. I would rather not see the work or author get ghettoized or pigeonhold. We need more authors like Alan. I hope this answers your question(s).


By the way..... your first name isn't Alan is it? ;)

[Mia]

Mia,

Let's call a truce. I did not mean to accuse you of anything, that is how your posts have come across to me. If I was mistaken please feel free to correct me but let's be polite, ok? I don't think I have ever been rude to you, did not mean to be rude in that post. No need to accuse me of making things up in my head. A simple, "you are mistaken. What I prefer is...." would have been fine.






:(

No big deal. :)