Best and worst plot twists in marvel history (spoilers)

[Atom_basher]

After reading the latest issue of Gravity, it got me wondering what are your best and worst plot twists in marvel history.

Best meaning, it completely caught you of guard, and had you thinking about it and its implications on the comic for days, it made you go back and think "yeah, THATS why they did that" and so on so forth

Worst meaning, you saw it from day one, and werent surprised by it in the least, it didnt really makes sense because it seemed thrown into the comic for cheap shock and just plain ruined the flow of the book.

so what are your choices

[hondobrode]

As a kid, reading Uncanny X-Men # 174 with that awesome Paul Smith art, and gasping out loud, when Madelyn Pryor reveals herself as Dark Phoenix on the last page splash ! I definitely didn't see that coming (tho I'm sure I would now).

[Paradox]

Best: Offing Phoenix the first time. Killing Guardian from Alpha Flight the first time.

Worst: Having the Scarlet Witch be the "villain" in the Avengers Disassembled arc entitled "Chaos". Major telegraphing.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

I didn't know it from day one, but 80 % of the internet did, which kinda shows that the "twist" wasn't that surprising: Wanda being the villain in Disassembled.

[streator]

xorn revealing himself to be magneto in new x-men 146 was the last time i was really surprised.

[BlackKnight]

I have to go with Guardian being the Alpha Flight Member to die in issue 12. That was not something I expected.

For worst I have to say Wanda being the villian in Chaos, that was telegraphyed from a mile away, along with the cheap pop shock deaths in the same series make it the worst twist ever.

[Cayman]

Best: Xorn being Magneto in New X-Men. Alex being the mole in Runaways and dying.

Cay

[Cayman]

Worst twist: (this one didn't exactly happen, but if it did, woo boy) If Carter had turned out to be Magneto's son who was being mentally manipulated by Cassandra Nova, as was rumored.

Cay

[Jim Yost]

Going SOLELY from things I read with no foreknowledge...

My vote for worst is Ben Reilly being revealed as the ONE TRUE Spider-Man. I actually screamed out loud in anger when I read that issue of Spectacular.

My vote for best... hmm... might be the "Spider-Man, your costume is alive and is trying to graft itself to you" reveal... could be Kraven shooting Spidey point-blank in the 1st issue of Fearful Symmetry...

But I have to know, what happened in the most recent issue of Gravity to spur you on this tangent?

[Jim Yost]

Actually, I think the twist that blew me away the most in a Marvel-published book was when they revealed that Luke Skywalker had killed his love interest Shira Brie, and the subsequent reveal that she was an Imperial Mole.

But if we're just counting Marvel characters, I'll stand by what's above.

[DDM]

Best:
Phoenix's suicide in Uncanny X-Men #137 in The Dark Phoenix Saga
The Kree-Skrull War (Rick Jones bonded to Captain Marvel)
The Celestial Madonna (Mantis is the Celestial Madonna, not Moondragon)
Captain Marvel #25-34 (Thanos)
Strange Tales #178-181, Warlock #9-15 (vs the Magus, Thanos)
Avengers Annual #7, Marvel Two-in-One Annual #2 (Thanos, Warlock) The deaths of Thanos, Adam Warlock, Pip, & Gamora
Avengers Forever An older Rick Jones is revealed to be the alter ego of Captain Marvel (Genis Vell)
Avengers #1-3 (volume 3) or "The Morgan Quest," Wonder Man seemingly returns from the dead to defeat Morgan Le Faye through Wanda's probability powers.

Worst:

Kwannon-Revanche Saga circa X-Men #20-21, 31-32
Avengers Disassembled
New Avengers

[Jim Yost]

DDM, for clarification - what are the plot twists in most of those? Like "New Avengers" what is the plot twist there which you feel is the worst?

[BoosterBronze]

I agree that Xorn being Magneto was a simply enourmous mindblower.

Worst plot twists- An issue of Busiek's Avengers. The Avengers take out The Controller at Project Pegasus (IIRC) and in the last page a shadowy figure stands up and says "But really Avenger's I am your real enemy. Me; Imus Champion!"

And I say "Who the hell are you?"

And I never found out, because that story happened in a miniseries or something. NExt issue of Avenger's came otu and I never saw the guy again.

[riotgear]

I've noticed nobody's mentioned one of my personal favorite shockers. Thunderbolts #1, where the team is revealed to actually be the Masters of Evil.

[Atom_basher]

I've noticed nobody's mentioned one of my personal favorite shockers. Thunderbolts #1, where the team is revealed to actually be the Masters of Evil.


Thats actuaklly my fave marvel plot twist from what i remember

The worst: either Wanda being revealed as the villain in dissassembled, HECK the arch was called CHAOS. and remember the scene where she was litterally covered in foreshadowing. BLECH!!! very bad


Another bad one is what happened in the newest issue of gravity, it was a good issue, but that plot twist was so bad it wasnt even a plot twist

[DDM]

DDM, for clarification - what are the plot twists in most of those? Like "New Avengers" what is the plot twist there which you feel is the worst?

For New Avengers, there is no real substantive plot twist, just a violation of continuity for tell an awful decompressed story on the heels of the equally bad Avengers Disassembled.

[Expletive Deleted]

Best - Xorn revealed as Magneto.

Worst - Norman Osborn revealed as the mastermind of the Clone Saga.

[Expletive Deleted]

For New Avengers, there is no real substantive plot twist.Then why bring it up in a thread about plot twists?

[Cayman]

The plot twist with SHIELD in New Avengers, actually, that was pretty cool too. What with them wiping out all the evidence.

Cay

[thik_3rd]

has there even been any plot to twist in na?

[BlackKnight]

has there even been any plot to twist in na?

No so far it has all been fairly predictable, although the idea that Electro did all that damage to a prison to break out sauron was a plot twist, although a very lame one.

[Atom_basher]

there was the jessica drew as a double agent plot twist

[jadegiant77]

I'll say the best was Thunderbolts # 1.

worst: ahh, how can I pick just one? I'd have to say Betty Banner being revealed as "Mr. Blue" in the Hulk. God did that suck ass.

[DDM]

Then why bring it up in a thread about plot twists?

The no plot twist in New Avengers is the plot twist.

[BlackKnight]

there was the jessica drew as a double agent plot twist

I found that interesting, but it was nothing that went, oh man that was something I didn't expect. By the way have the done anything with that since issue 3. I can't remember.

[Jake V]

The no plot twist in New Avengers is the plot twist.
On that note, I nominate every single other comic that didn't have a plot twist as "worst plot twist." It's only fair.

On the subject of New Avengers plot twists, if my guess about the true nature of the Void is correct, there could be a pretty substantial plot twist in #10.

[Cayman]

Oh yeah, Paul Jenkins showing up! I didn't see that coming.

Cay

[Jake V]

I found that interesting, but it was nothing that went, oh man that was something I didn't expect. By the way have the done anything with that since issue 3. I can't remember.
In fact you can. Though I can't recall the thread's title, you got in a rather ridiculous argument with several other posters where you took shots at NA for not immediately wrapping up the "Jessica Drew as possible traitor" subplot. I can find a link if you want.

Have they done anything with it since then? Yeah, the giant-sized Spider-Woman special touched upon it. But really it's just meant to put some creeping suspision over everything SW does.

[Atom_basher]

I found that interesting, but it was nothing that went, oh man that was something I didn't expect. By the way have the done anything with that since issue 3. I can't remember.


as far as i know, they havent

[Tommy]

How about the Death of Monkey Joe in GLA 3? No one saw that one comming.

[BlackKnight]

In fact you can. Though I can't recall the thread's title, you got in a rather ridiculous argument with several other posters where you took shots at NA for not immediately wrapping up the "Jessica Drew as possible traitor" subplot. I can find a link if you want.

Have they done anything with it since then? Yeah, the giant-sized Spider-Woman special touched upon it. But really it's just meant to put some creeping suspision over everything SW does.

Watch Jake go... go jake twist what others say. :rolleyes:

I have never said that they should rap up the Jessica drew as a possible traitor subplot immediately only that they should do more with it and not let it sit for issue after issue, similar to how Simonson built up surtur in the classic Thor run.

It was you who tried to claim that was what I was saying even though I explain over and over... :rolleyes:

[BlackKnight]

as far as i know, they havent

Thank you it is refreshing to have someone respond without have to wade through there garabage.

:D

[BlackKnight]

How about the Death of Monkey Joe in GLA 3? No one saw that one comming.

You know that actually was a plot twist I had not expected.

[Zero Hunter]

I'm going to have to go with the death of Guardian in Alpha Flight 12. No book since has had the balls to kill off arguably the main character of series like that since.

[riotgear]

Thats actuaklly my fave marvel plot twist from what i remember

The worst: either Wanda being revealed as the villain in dissassembled, HECK the arch was called CHAOS. and remember the scene where she was litterally covered in foreshadowing. BLECH!!! very bad


Another bad one is what happened in the newest issue of gravity, it was a good issue, but that plot twist was so bad it wasnt even a plot twist

Can you give me a spoiler on what the Gravity twist is? Is Black Death his father or something?

[Atom_basher]

Can you give me a spoiler on what the Gravity twist is? Is Black Death his father or something?



Grenwich guardian=Blackdeath, somthing most gravity readers have been saying since the begining

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

The worst plot twist in this thread :It has turned into a "let's Bash New Avengers, yay!"
I saw it coming miles away. ;)

[Hellpop]

The best Marvel plot twist of all time is when Spider- Man snapped Gwen Stacey's neck while trying to save her.

There have been so many bad ones recently... I'd probably go with Wanda, though. Stupid Bendis!

[Paradox]

BoosterBronze missed it:

Worst plot twists- An issue of Busiek's Avengers. The Avengers take out The Controller at Project Pegasus (IIRC) and in the last page a shadowy figure stands up and says "But really Avenger's I am your real enemy. Me; Imus Champion!"

And I say "Who the hell are you?"

Heh, yeah, Imus was an obscure one, from WAAAAY back in his only other previous appearance in Avengers #109.

And I never found out, because that story happened in a miniseries or something. NExt issue of Avenger's came otu and I never saw the guy again.

It was that year's Annual, which had a plot twist that reminded us that...

...Marvel ants understand English! :D

http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/7631/200/7631_2_1998.jpg

[Mr. Nobody]

Amazing Fantasy # 15 - Spider-Man tracks down the man who killed his uncle, only to reveal that it was the guy he could have easily stopped earlier, had he not been so self-involved. Well it shocked me when i first read it as a kid anyway. I had no idea Spider-Man had such a huge dark secret driving him.

Thunderbolts #10 - Issue one has already been mentioned but i thought this was another great one. The general expectation at the time, i think, was that they were going to be running their scam sometime longer, if not indifinitly. Just as it seems the team is becoming too comfortable in their roles, Zemo, ready to move forward in his plans, pulls the rug out from under the team, without warning, reveals the teams true nature to the world.

Daredevil # 181 - Daredevil lets Bullseye drop. It was a pretty striking moment in its own right, particulary when you consider how it was set up an earlier issue, in which Daredevil had gone out of his way to save Bullseye's life and how he had defended the act.

Daredevil's outing was very well done i thought, They'd been setting it up the direction for some months prior, but i didn't think i lost any of its impact turning the page and actually seeing it.

As much as i hate anything associated with the resurrection of Norman Osborne, the way he set up Flash Thompson and left him in a coma, for the purpose of sending a message to Peter, was fairly brutal and memorable sequence.

I'm sure there's lots of others i'm not thinking of right now.

As for the worst, i don't think i need to go into them. Good twist take work, whereas bad twist come easy (see: any major event marvel published through the ninties). Anyway, if i feel like getting aggravated about Avengers Disassembled all over again, or whatever else, i'm sure there's threads already set up for that.

[Kirayoshi]

Best:

Thunderbolts #1. Let's see, we have a generic superhero team, led by the manditory patriotic figure, nothing special or out of the ordinary, well written but still---WHA? MASTERS OF EVIL? Whoa! Nice one, Busiek!

Amazing Spider-Man #38(I think). Green Goblin was not that interesting a villain before that issue.

Amazing Spider-Man #121. One of the few deaths that ever meant anything.

Astondishing X-Men #4. Admit it, how many of you thought that they were gonna bring back Jean?

[overcomebyfumes]

For worst, I'd have to go with the Xorn / Magneto thing. No set-up, no logic, no reason for it. AAARRRGGGHHH!!! Made me mad. A plot twist for no other reason than to have a plot twist. Poor writing, imho.

Disassembled was bad. Probably one of the worst things I've ever read from Marvel. I was expecting that the twist, since everything was so obviously pointing to Wanda, that the twist was that it WASN'T Wanda... and it never twisted. There's also about thirty other reasons why I hated it, but the lack of a twist is up there on the list.

West Coast Avengers - IS the Vision the Orginal Human Torch? Isn't he? Do we need a long, convoluted, hard to understand history lesson? John Byrne thought we did. Did anyone care if the Vision was made of the Torch's spare parts or was the actual Torch? I found myself wondering why this was all necessary.

oooh, here's an old one - in the orginal silver age X-Men, they killed off Professor X, but later it was revealed that THAT Professor X was actually an imposter, and Xaivier had been alive all along. THAT was some crappy writing there.


Good stuff - Thunderbolts definately.

If we're talking GLA, then the twist right at the end of the series where the become the GLX-Men - had me laughing out loud.

I'm waiting to see how Brubaker's Winter Soldier arc plays out - is anyone else expecting a twist where it turns out to NOT be Bucky? The guy's got the Cosmic Cube, man, it could ALL be fabricated...

What's y'all think of Emma's heel turn at the end of AXM #12?

Runaways. The end of the first arc was a great twist. I wasn't expecting it to be Alex, but it made absolutely perfect sense that it was. Perfect.

Best of all - Three words. Beta. Ray. Bill. Best Thor arc ever.



Pax.

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

Best of all - Three words. Beta. Ray. Bill. Best Thor arc ever.



Pax.


Such a wonderful wonderful person. I wish you many years of joy and happiness.

[irish_star]

Two awesome plot twists:

The first issue of Waid and Ringo's Unthinkable arc from FF with Doom and Valeria.
DAMN.
I didn't see that one coming.
"Dear, dear Valeria. I will miss you more than any can imagine...but I will always hold you close to me."

And the ending of #16 of the first season of Runaways.

[hondobrode]

I'll say the best was Thunderbolts # 1.

worst: ahh, how can I pick just one? I'd have to say Betty Banner being revealed as "Mr. Blue" in the Hulk. God did that suck ass.

Whoa ! I gave up on the Hulk before I found out who Mr Blue was. Betty ?! What's up with that ? Ok, I was shocked.

[Artemis1]

Best: Probably Frederick Foswell being Big Man. I was in surprise after finding that out.

Worst: Dock Ock and GG getting struck by lightning during their first and only battle. Either that or Norman being Aunt May's kidnapper(so obvious).

[Artemis1]

The best Marvel plot twist of all time is when Spider- Man snapped Gwen Stacey's neck while trying to save her.

I forgot about that one. That was a good one. Another stupid twist is when Gwen was killed by Carnage. So horribly souless.

[jade_nova]

Best Plot Twist: Apocalypse is revealed to be a frail old man in suit. Only one of the founding members of the GLA dying instead of all of them.

[GoGo Yubari]

Best: One of my favorites has to be in the first issue of Milligan and Allred's X-Force where they set up an interesting, quirky superteam... and then kill nearly all of them except for three at the very end. That was awesome.

[Frank]

When wealthy little aristocrat James Howlett pop animal claws!

[moebius]

I was genuinely surprised that they brought back Colossus so fast. Glad, too, since it was such a crappy death.

On that note, I was also extremely surprised when Colossus committed suicide. I remember looking at that last page, thinking "did Lobdell just kill Colossus?" Next issue of X-Men is Kitty with an urn.

Also extremely surprising was Professor Xavier revealing himself as a mutant at the end of E for Extinction.

Worst plot twist is probably Peter being the clone in the Clone Saga. The true nature of Parallax, despite very good characterization and action throughout by Johns, was incredbly stupid. Yellow fear grasshopper, indeed.

[comic_lover]

After reading the latest issue of Gravity, it got me wondering what are your best and worst plot twists in marvel history.

Best meaning, it completely caught you of guard, and had you thinking about it and its implications on the comic for days, it made you go back and think "yeah, THATS why they did that" and so on so forth

Worst meaning, you saw it from day one, and werent surprised by it in the least, it didnt really makes sense because it seemed thrown into the comic for cheap shock and just plain ruined the flow of the book.

so what are your choicesThe Best : The Thunderbolts #1.Damn,did that surprise me.Great job.That reminded me why I started to read comics to begin with.Another great surprise was when Jean Grey commited suicide.Whoa.Major shocker at the time.The Worst :The Avengers -Nothing could have possibly any worse in the Avengers history than revealing Iron Man as a killer and then replacing him with a teenage version.Ugh....of course The " New Avengers " is getting pretty damn close.Another lame idea was the whole Clone Saga.Peter Parker is a clone ?Ugh.I'm gonna vomit.Norman Osborn was behind it all ? It's time to blow chunks.Before I forget let me also include the " Lion King " version of Beast.LAME.Beast now looks like an idiot from Disney.Who's idea was that anyway ??

[Kid Kyoto]

I have to go with Xorn=Magneto as one of the worst in recent memory. Now Morisson killing Magneto with a pre-Sept 11 plane through the window... that was cool. To me it said "we are going forward! no x-men vs magneto vol XXIV" bringing him back was just lame.

Nick Fury vs SHIELD was filled with good plot twists, shame they had to undo everything later.

No one mentioned Wolverine Ememy of the State, is that because it was so totally spoiled in previews?

[Doom]

Good Plot twists and Bad Plot twists are very difficult to properly pin down since they can mean so many things. As Mr. Nobody rightly said " Good twist take work, whereas bad twist come easy"
However it doesn't end there.

Xorn being Magneto was a good twist, in that it was handled brilliantly. It was a twist no one saw coming, and was properly set up and at the end of the issue they devliver the shocking money shot of Magneto holding Xorns helmet. Perfectly done.

However Xorn being Magneto falls down when you start to think about it and realise that it makes absolutely no sense.

Contrast that to Thunder-Bolts #1. Same thing. No one sees it coming, it's set up well, great last page money shot, the key difference was in the end it made sense.

Of course T-Bolts was a series were almost all the issues end with shocking last pages. It's kind of their thing. (Then again they've had some great plot twists in the midle of books, like revealing who was behind sending Scourge after the Thunderbolts. That was a work of genuis.)

Now as for Scarlet Witch being Wanda, I had to admit that at the timeI didn't think it was her, mainly because the way she was acting in Captain America and the Falcon, acting like an achor of stability for Steve made it seem like it couldn't be her. Still I turned out to be wrong. Now while the twist may not have been hugely shocking (since while I didn't think it was her, she was one of the only names on a very short list of suspects.) the Splash Page scene where Doctor Strange lays it out with all the flashbacks to old Avengers issues by Bryne and Perez was fantastically done.

Now onto actually listing bad twists. Well the Black Death one in Gravity fooled no one.

The many twists in Bruce Jones Hulk (with the last idea that the Leader was behind everything because he wanted to make Hulk travel back in time, only that wasn't his real plan at all.) was just stupid. It almost was like every issue on his run could have been avoided if all the principal characters just stayed in bed.

The one in the Captain America relaunch when he reveals his face to the world. It was very meh for me.

Oh and going back to the 90s, there was the idea that Joeseph was just a Magneto clone created by some n00b villian named Astra (as opposed to the original much cooler idea that Joseph was Proteus reborn but had forgoten his evil old self.)

And the one I hate the most, the idea that Pennance was a mutant girl from Yugoslavia like had been intended (in flashbacks and the original outline for the series.) But just this body that was created to hold the Monet twins.
It didn't make much sense and only screwed over Pennance as it meant she wasn't a character at all.

Now as for good plot twists, I could sit down listing ones all day from Thunderbolts.

Ultimate X-Men had a great twist when it seemed that Cyclops and Professer X masterminded the recent attacks on them as part of some fiendish master plan. But since it was never followed up, I suppose I can drop it.

While not a shocking twist, one I really enjoyed was from the Brubecker Captain America, where its revealed who the girl Crossbones is breaking out of jail really is.

Oh and one I personally loved is from issue #4 of Megamorphs (a title more people should have bought.)
Well the heroes have foiled Doom's evil plan, but he gets to keep Doc Ock a prisoner (and his giant Megamorph.) Yet ultimately Doom seems to have spent tons of money to get nothing, right?

Wrong.

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/4442/power9eq.th.jpg (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=power9eq.jpg)

Powerfully Wrong.

[Gary Joyce]

I'm still in shock that no-one has mentioned Norman Osborn getting Gwen Stacy pregnant ah well i guess the Clone Saga sucked more.

[FanboyStranger]

Best (in a 70s way): Dr. Strange having to kill the Ancient One in order to stop Shuma-Gorath

[powerforward]

agree with guardian being killed in alpha flight #12 as my bet plot twist

my worst is the way they brought him back, still not completely sure what happened with that. i know they had an imposter come back as guardian with some convulted story about an alien race saving him, but then they did bring him back using parts of that story iirc.