NA versus Thunderbolts

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I like the Thunderbolts and all, but why do they have to whoop the New Avengers, and even worse, the writer said that he's going to do something worse to the NA too!

Why do the NA have to be the punching bags?

[Dark Soul # 7]

I like the Thunderbolts and all, but why do they have to whoop the New Avengers, and even worse, the writer said that he's going to do something worse to the NA too!

Why do the NA have to be the punching bags?
So that Marvel will realise that they can´t call this ragtag group of characters that Bendis likes to write, the Avengers.

[Pike]

When are they scheduled to "whoop" the Avengers? Who can even hurt the Sentry?

[Dark Soul # 7]

When are they scheduled to "whoop" the Avengers? Who can even hurt the Sentry?
Photon as he´s called nowadays.

[Dermie]

I like the Thunderbolts and all, but why do they have to whoop the New Avengers, and even worse, the writer said that he's going to do something worse to the NA too!

Why do the NA have to be the punching bags?

Considering we haven't even seen the fight yet, I think you may be getting a bit ahead of yourself.
Even if the Thunderbolts beat the New Avengers, it doesn't mean that the NA won't put up an impressive fight. I doubt they'll be "punching bags".

When are they scheduled to "whoop" the Avengers? Who can even hurt the Sentry?

NEW THUNDERBOLTS #13-14 will feature a T-Bolts/Avengers clash.

As Dark Soul 7 pointed out, Photon (Genis-Vell, formerly known as Captain Marvel) will be the appropriate opponent for Sentry.

[Atom_basher]

When are they scheduled to "whoop" the Avengers? Who can even hurt the Sentry?


Id wager than Photon+Radioactive man may be able to hurt sentry

[marvelboy]

Don't worry the New Avengers members will be getting powerups....Luke Cage is keeping that crowbar from the wrecker and getting all the power of basically a god. Spiderman after he goes through that ordeal of "the other" will recieve mystical enchancements to his spider powers.

[DJ Rustbucket]

Hey, in the preview art, did you guys notice when Atlas is holding Cage, Luke is wearing what looks to be one of the costumes we see in Pulse #11 that Wasp designs for him?

The image is at comics.ign.com for those who want to see it.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Spiderman after he goes through that ordeal of "the other" will recieve mystical enchancements to his spider powers.
No he won´t.
He´ll lose an organ.

[Pike]

Just how powerful is Photon to be able to take on the Sentry?

[thik_3rd]

Just how powerful is Photon to be able to take on the Sentry?
he destroyed and then remade the universe for starters.

[marvelboy]

well given Sentry is pre-crisis level superman it should be right up his alley

[streator]

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/t-bolts/NT013Pre.htm

it doesn't look like all the new avengers are appearing, based upon the preview art.

[Dermie]

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/t-bolts/NT013Pre.htm

it doesn't look like all the new avengers are appearing, based upon the preview art.

Fabian has said that Wolverine and Ronin will not be in it. Ronin because the character has not yet appeared in the NA book, so it is too early to have him guest appearing elsewhere, and Wolverine because he's already had a major T-Bolts appearance.

Cap, Iron Man, Spider-Man, Luke Cage and Spider-Woman will all be appearing.

[CyberCoyote]

Honestly there has been waaaaaay too much mouthing off about the T-Bolts whomping the NA, I think it's all smoke and mirrors. Either they actually get whomped, or the NA and T-Bolts put up a fake fight for the other parties involved.

And what's with the new Doc Spectrum in those panels? Is she joining NA? I know the new Squadron Sinister is supposed to appear soon, but she seems mixed right in with the Avengers there (well, she's fighting them, NA is fighting them)

[Dermie]

And what's with the new Doc Spectrum in those panels? Is she joining NA? I know the new Squadron Sinister is supposed to appear soon, but she seems mixed right in with the Avengers there (well, she's fighting them, NA is fighting them)

Well, the New Avengers are not actually in the pages with Dr. Spectrum--those may be two separate fights.

[protege]

Where's Mach I and Blizzard? isn't Joystick supposed to be in this?

[XPac]

Hmmm... truthfully, Sentry and maybe Iron Man are the only reasons why I think the Avengers could hang with the T-Bolts right now. It's not exactly the strongest Avenger team we've ever seen. Sentry aside, it's probably one of the weakest to be honest (though Sentry is a freaking beast so I suppose he makes up for that fact).

I honestly am annoyed by how blatent they're making the Avengers butt kickign sound... I can only assume we shouldn't take it seriously, though frankly I still am turned off by the tone of it. But hey, I'm almost certainly gonna buy it, so it's working.

[Dermie]

Where's Mach I and Blizzard? isn't Joystick supposed to be in this?

Joystick will be in the fight against the NA (she is Spider-Woman's opponent)---and she can be seen on the preview pages with Dr. Spectrum on them.

As for Mach-IV, he may still be too injured to fight. Blizzard...we'll have to wait and see.

[Dermie]

Hmmm... truthfully, Sentry and maybe Iron Man are the only reasons why I think the Avengers could hang with the T-Bolts right now. It's not exactly the strongest Avenger team we've ever seen. Sentry aside, it's probably one of the weakest to be honest (though Sentry is a freaking beast so I suppose he makes up for that fact).

Although the NA may be lacking some of the Avengers' traditional powerhouses like Thor, Vision, Wonder Man or She-Hulk, it isn't exactly a "weak" team. Iron Man is a heavy hitter in his own right. In terms of physical power, Luke Cage, Spider-Man and Spider-Woman are all superhumanly strong. And although Cap isn't superpowered, his skills and experience more than make up for it--and I think the same can be said for most of the other NA members as well. What the lack in power, they'll make up for with skill and/or experience.

I think the weakest team in Avengers history is Cap's "kooky quartet"--Cap, Hawkeye, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch (back in the days when she was lucky if she could cast more than two hexes without passing out).

[XPac]

Although the NA may be lacking some of the Avengers' traditional powerhouses like Thor, Vision, Wonder Man or She-Hulk, it isn't exactly a "weak" team. Iron Man is a heavy hitter in his own right. In terms of physical power, Luke Cage, Spider-Man and Spider-Woman are all superhumanly strong. And although Cap isn't superpowered, his skills and experience more than make up for it--and I think the same can be said for most of the other NA members as well. What the lack in power, they'll make up for with skill and/or experience.

I think the weakest team in Avengers history is Cap's "kooky quartet"--Cap, Hawkeye, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch (back in the days when she was lucky if she could cast more than two hexes without passing out).

Yeah, the weakest team was probably Caps Kooky Quartet. They of course did have Wanda, who was potentially uber... but she hadn't realized her potential yet.

I guess I'm just used to having an Avengers team that don't struggle against a solo Wrecker. But really, power levels aren't important as long as the characters are interesting... and they are. They're nowhere near Earth's Mightiest Heroes anymore, but I suppose that's not really important since they are cool.

[Dermie]

I guess I'm just used to having an Avengers team that don't struggle against a solo Wrecker.

True...but I think part of that can be attributed to the group's lack of co-ordination as a team thus far. They aren't used to working together, and it worked against them (which is something that will probably also hurt them in their fight against the T-Bolts, since the T-Bolts have been working together longer and may be better organized). Don't forget that the Avengers once had trouble taking down a solo Whirlwind--and that was a group of 20 or so Avengers!

But really, power levels aren't important as long as the characters are interesting... and they are. They're nowhere near Earth's Mightiest Heroes anymore, but I suppose that's not really important since they are cool.

True.

[Harold of the Rocks]

I guess I'm just used to having an Avengers team that don't struggle against a solo Wrecker. But really, power levels aren't important as long as the characters are interesting... and they are. They're nowhere near Earth's Mightiest Heroes anymore, but I suppose that's not really important since they are cool.

Keep in mind that Iron Man and Cap (but especially Iron Man) wasn't there to fight Wrecker. Also, they did not really fight as a team, largely due to the fact that Logan kinda went solo ragefest, while Luke, Spidey, and Jessica took their turns (and they are not as experienced in team combat, right?). Jessica finally did distract Wrecker so her teammates could ambush him. Then they fought like a team and finished him off in seconds. Logan claws his back, he drops crowbar. Jessica swats him with it, then gives it to the real powerhouse, Luke. He drills Wrecker right into Spidey's web. Game. Set. Match.

I do agree they aren't as powerful as probably most lineups of Avengers. Still, they only got their asses handed to them when they didn't work as a team. Once they did, lookout!

[Dark Soul # 7]

Keep in mind that Iron Man and Cap (but especially Iron Man) wasn't there to fight Wrecker. Also, they did not really fight as a team, largely due to the fact that Logan kinda went solo ragefest, while Luke, Spidey, and Jessica took their turns (and they are not as experienced in team combat, right?). Jessica finally did distract Wrecker so her teammates could ambush him. Then they fought like a team and finished him off in seconds. Logan claws his back, he drops crowbar. Jessica swats him with it, then gives it to the real powerhouse, Luke. He drills Wrecker right into Spidey's web. Game. Set. Match.
I find it funny that people always say that Spider-man isn´t used to fight in team and then always point out that he´s teamed up with just about every Marvel hero there is from X-man to Howard the duck. He fought together with already organised teams such as the FF, the X-men and the Avengers long before this comic book started. He´s also fought succsesfully together with a bunch of ragtag heros that are mostly loners, which is what the NA is, to bring down villain. Examples of this is the Round Robin storyline and Maximum Carnage. I´m also pretty sure that Wolvie, Cage and Jessica all´ve fought with teams before this comic. And they fought like idiots during the first round with the Wrecker.
I do agree they aren't as powerful as probably most lineups of Avengers. Still, they only got their asses handed to them when they didn't work as a team. Once they did, lookout!
So the question is what team has the better team-work? The New Avengers or the Thunderbolts. As I´ve said before. I hope the Thunderbolts win but that Spider-man is the last Avenger standing.

[hbkabdul]

When did Dr Spectrum become a girl?

[Harold of the Rocks]

I find it funny that people always say that Spider-man isn´t used to fight in team and then always point out that he´s teamed up with just about every Marvel hero there is from X-man to Howard the duck. He fought together with already organised teams such as the FF, the X-men and the Avengers long before this comic book started. He´s also fought succsesfully together with a bunch of ragtag heros that are mostly loners, which is what the NA is, to bring down villain. Examples of this is the Round Robin storyline and Maximum Carnage. I´m also pretty sure that Wolvie, Cage and Jessica all´ve fought with teams before this comic. And they fought like idiots during the first round with the Wrecker.

So the question is what team has the better team-work? The New Avengers or the Thunderbolts. As I´ve said before. I hope the Thunderbolts win but that Spider-man is the last Avenger standing.

I wasn't saying that Spidey isn't used to fighting on a team -- well, I kinda infered that, but I was really playing off of the same thing I have observed on many posts "Spidey, Jessica, Luke, and Wolverine aren't team players. They don't belong in this lineup!" I have posts where you and I have agreed that he has a rich history of working with many other heroes. Still, it is the perception... so I was sayin' that part tongue-in-cheek. But wait, now you are callin' the NA a ragtag group of loners (tongue-in-cheek?)! I know Logan has been on many teams.. that is why I specifically singled him out as just charging in while the other three 'took turns'. Never said Logan doesn't have team experience. I also know Luke has worked with Iron Fist and the FF as well. Jessica, I think worked with the Avengers (not sure about membership), and has teamed up with many heroes in the past as well. So who are the loners? Sentry would be the only one, I suppose... My main point was similar to yours. They didn't fight like a team at first, and it showed.

Yes, who will work together as a team better... hmmm. Neither lineup has been together all that long, with Joystick, Radioactive Man, and Photon all new members. Leadership? Songbird has looked promising, but NA have Cap. And tons more experience. I'm inclined to think this matchup will be pretty good and not an 'ass-kicking' for either team. Buy hey, the hype can't hurt, and so I am taking FabNic's enthusiasm with the proverbial grain of salt. Should be very interesting... :D

...and what specifically is 'in place' that Zemo wanted? Songbird as leader? Internal conflict under the surface? And can the Moonstones manipulate Atlas (even though Purple Man cannot)?

[Brian R]

All these heroes have teamed up with tons of other heroes over their careers, so it really shouldnt take too long for the team to get some chemistry. And for guys who arent "team players" Spidey and Logan have to be the most popular guys in the MU.

Dont get me wrong, there is still no way I buy Wolvie being on the team, but since he is, it really shouldnt be a problem for him or any of the others to learn eachother's tendencies, not for heroes with this much experience.

[XPac]

Keep in mind that Iron Man and Cap (but especially Iron Man) wasn't there to fight Wrecker. Also, they did not really fight as a team, largely due to the fact that Logan kinda went solo ragefest, while Luke, Spidey, and Jessica took their turns (and they are not as experienced in team combat, right?). Jessica finally did distract Wrecker so her teammates could ambush him. Then they fought like a team and finished him off in seconds. Logan claws his back, he drops crowbar. Jessica swats him with it, then gives it to the real powerhouse, Luke. He drills Wrecker right into Spidey's web. Game. Set. Match.

I do agree they aren't as powerful as probably most lineups of Avengers. Still, they only got their asses handed to them when they didn't work as a team. Once they did, lookout!

True... though Speed Demon himself did take out Wrecker early on in the T-Bolts series, if we wanna make a point of comparrison. I guess a descent arguement can be made that right now the T-Bolts have a stronger claim to being earth's mightiest heroes than the Avengers, Sentry aside.

Wrecking Crew is just inconsistant that way I suppose. They can give Thor trouble one second, yet be taken down collectively by Iron Fist the next. Go figure.

[Dark Soul # 7]

I wasn't saying that Spidey isn't used to fighting on a team -- well, I kinda infered that, but I was really playing off of the same thing I have observed on many posts "Spidey, Jessica, Luke, and Wolverine aren't team players. They don't belong in this lineup!" I have posts where you and I have agreed that he has a rich history of working with many other heroes. Still, it is the perception... so I was sayin' that part tongue-in-cheek. But wait, now you are callin' the NA a ragtag group of loners (tongue-in-cheek?)! I know Logan has been on many teams.. that is why I specifically singled him out as just charging in while the other three 'took turns'. Never said Logan doesn't have team experience. I also know Luke has worked with Iron Fist and the FF as well. Jessica, I think worked with the Avengers (not sure about membership), and has teamed up with many heroes in the past as well. So who are the loners? Sentry would be the only one, I suppose... My main point was similar to yours. They didn't fight like a team at first, and it showed.Ok my bad and I´ve got nothing more to say on the matter. But we agree at least and about the loner thing, my bad again. I do that alot.
Yes, who will work together as a team better... hmmm. Neither lineup has been together all that long, with Joystick, Radioactive Man, and Photon all new members. Leadership? Songbird has looked promising, but NA have Cap. And tons more experience. I'm inclined to think this matchup will be pretty good and not an 'ass-kicking' for either team. Buy hey, the hype can't hurt, and so I am taking FabNic's enthusiasm with the proverbial grain of salt. Should be very interesting... :D True it should be a battle of skill vs power where the NA are the skill and the T-bolts are the power. As long as I get a good old-fashinoned superteam vs superteam everything-goes battle. I´m happy.

[PaxHouse]

Fabian has said that Wolverine and Ronin will not be in it. Ronin because the character has not yet appeared in the NA book, so it is too early to have him guest appearing elsewhere, and Wolverine because he's already had a major T-Bolts appearance.


Plus, Logan will be out of town, with what happening within the X-MEN/BLACK PANTHER Crossover, starting in X-MEN #175 ;)

[PaxHouse]

When did Dr Spectrum become a girl?

He didn't :rolleyes:

The new Dr. Spectrum just made her first Appearance in NEW T-BOLTS #12.....

[protege]

He didn't :rolleyes:

The new Dr. Spectrum just made her first Appearance in NEW T-BOLTS #12.....
For the sake of curiosity, what happened to the old one?

[XPac]

For the sake of curiosity, what happened to the old one?

The original Dr. Spectrum was from the Squadron Supreme's universe, and after being stuck on 616 earth eventually returned there.

[Kirk G]

He didn't :rolleyes:

The new Dr. Spectrum just made her first Appearance in NEW T-BOLTS #12.....
Are you quite sure? I flipped through it and also noticed the change in issue #12.

But it seems to me that I've seen a curvasious (sp?) body in that costume before. Can anyone else help me with this memory?

[thik_3rd]

the original dr. spectrum from squadron sinister was turned into his own power crystal.
the squadron supreme one is back in the ss universe.

or something. thats info is based on sketchy second hand reports.

someone read this and give me the gist of it, i'm too lazy.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/krimnn.htm#bill

[Dermie]

Are you quite sure? I flipped through it and also noticed the change in issue #12.

But it seems to me that I've seen a curvasious (sp?) body in that costume before. Can anyone else help me with this memory?

Yes, the Dr. Spectrum in #12 is a woman--but what PaxHouse was saying is that it is a new Dr Spectrum, not the old one turned into a woman.

As for your memory, that would be Avengers Annual #8, when the Wasp was turned into Dr Spectrum.

[pesmerga316]

IMO the NA will be getting their asses handed to them, and then Sentry shows up and stops it all in a matter of a second. Photon or whatever his name is from what I hear didn't exactly take out Eternity solo, he kinda had a uber powerful entity there (Eternity's son)

If Sentry is powerful enough to mentally create a being that can absolutely curb stomp the FF, X-Men, NA, Namor, Doc Strange, and the INHUMANS!! Yea right can anyone on the Thunderbolts do a bloody thing to him, I mean obviously he isn't going to go all Void on their asses but still it should be a one man curb stomp

[We R. Venom]

IMO the NA will be getting their asses handed to them, and then Sentry shows up and stops it all in a matter of a second. Photon or whatever his name is from what I hear didn't exactly take out Eternity solo, he kinda had a uber powerful entity there (Eternity's son)

If Sentry is powerful enough to mentally create a being that can absolutely curb stomp the FF, X-Men, NA, Namor, Doc Strange, and the INHUMANS!! Yea right can anyone on the Thunderbolts do a bloody thing to him, I mean obviously he isn't going to go all Void on their asses but still it should be a one man curb stomp

Yeah but its written by thunderbolts writers so itll be in theyre favor im sure.

[pesmerga316]

Hmmm Jenkins should get back at them by having a NT guest appearance in the Sentry mini in which he beats the snot out of all of them then

To me its like the whole thing that went down with Hulk/Doc Ock. Biased writer goes completly out of left field and has freaking DOC OCK beat Hulk down with his adamantium arms, PAD then turns around and tells it how it truly is by having Hulk flick Ock in the face and then tie him up with his own arms without even raising his heart beat a tick in the process

[Dark Soul # 7]

If Sentry is powerful enough to mentally create a being that can absolutely curb stomp the FF, X-Men, NA, Namor, Doc Strange, and the INHUMANS!! Yea right can anyone on the Thunderbolts do a bloody thing to him, I mean obviously he isn't going to go all Void on their asses but still it should be a one man curb stomp
We don´t really know what the Void is. I´m not so sure that it is a real pyshical being or even a being created from mental powers.
We´ll know for sure after the next issue of NA and then we should be able to start giving qulified guesses about Sentry´s powerlevel.

[pesmerga316]

oh I know Im just going off what we know so far, their is no indication that anyone outside of uber lvl could do much to this guy Id put him right on Morgs level when he had the power cosmic and the fountain thing back when he was fighting all the heralds if I had to make a guess.

I would put him under the likes of Thanos and Tyrant though by quite a ways

[Dark Soul # 7]

oh I know Im just going off what we know so far, their is no indication that anyone outside of uber lvl could do much to this guy Id put him right on Morgs level when he had the power cosmic and the fountain thing back when he was fighting all the heralds if I had to make a guess.

I would put him under the likes of Thanos and Tyrant though by quite a ways
Yeah both Sentry´s and Photon´s power levels are hard to define. I´ve heard that Photon as Captain Marvel fought evenly with Thor when he was a skyfather, and skyfathers are above Thanos and Tyrant.

[protege]

I'd like to see the Squadron sinister take on the new Avengers. Sentry vs. Hyperion would be interesting.

[Devourer of Words]

I'm looking forward to this New Avenger/Thunderbolt fight, although I don't believe it will go quite a badly for the Avengers as we've all heard. On the one hand we have a team with several highly skilled members led by arguably the best team leader in the Marvel universe, and on the other hand we have a team that has a tad more power. It's pretty evenly matched, with the only thing that should swing it one way or another being Photon and the Sentry.

Both have light-based powers and both are of an undefined-yet-high power level. The Sentry is reputed to have fought Galactus to a standstill, while Photon withstood the combined firepower of a combined fleet of Kree, Shi'ar, Skrull and several other races ships.

It'll be interesting to see quite how it all plays out, I think...

[XPac]

I'm looking forward to this New Avenger/Thunderbolt fight, although I don't believe it will go quite a badly for the Avengers as we've all heard. On the one hand we have a team with several highly skilled members led by arguably the best team leader in the Marvel universe, and on the other hand we have a team that has a tad more power. It's pretty evenly matched, with the only thing that should swing it one way or another being Photon and the Sentry.

Both have light-based powers and both are of an undefined-yet-high power level. The Sentry is reputed to have fought Galactus to a standstill, while Photon withstood the combined firepower of a combined fleet of Kree, Shi'ar, Skrull and several other races ships.

It'll be interesting to see quite how it all plays out, I think...

On paper, it sounds like a very even match. But it sounds like Fabian plans on stacking the deck so that the T-Bolts end up kicking the Avengers behinds. Maybe he's just messing around with the internet community... we'll see.

On any kind of level playing field, I personally think Sentry has a descent shot at taking BOTH the Avengers and T-Bolts solo (we saw how easily the Void handled a fairly large and powerful collection of heroes recently). It'll be interesting to see how Fabian deals with that particular issue.

[CyberCoyote]

Fabian posted on another board that Bendis is welcomed to use the T-Bolts in his book and return the spanking any way he sees fit. Kind of a moot offer since it would encompass about 12 issues over there as opposed to a single issue of NTB.

But yeah, he openly admits he's seriously stacking the deck in the T-Bolts favor. I can live with that :)

[loc_zsu]

i Just cant wait to see them against each other. I also agree with a lot of the other posts in here that it will come down to Photon and the Sentry. Although i would like it to be a case of all of the Avengers and the Thunderbolts are Knocked out except for photon and Sentry. That would be cool.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Has the Avengers ever beaten the Thunderbolts in a fight?
I don´t think so.

[XPac]

Has the Avengers ever beaten the Thunderbolts in a fight?
I don´t think so.


Most T-Bolt/Avenger fights end up pretty inconclusively. When they were controlled by Baron Zemo, the Avengers dominated the T-Botls with the Fantastic Four, but we can't really hold that against the T-Bolts since they were pretty badly outnumbered.

When the Avengers fought them to try and bring them in the next time, the fight was ended before it really could finish. The T-Bolts were definately showing better teamwork and saved each others butts, but man-to-man the Avengers were dominating them. But no real conclusion to that fight (though if I were a betting man I would have said the Avenger eventually would have overcome the Bolts there).

Their fight in the Avengers/T-Bolt mini was pretty inconclusive too since they all pretty much stopped fighting each other to stop Zemo and Moonstone.

COurse, that was an entirely different Avenger and T-Bolt team. Sentry aside, the T-Bolts man for man are a bigger and more powerful team, with Sentry there to make up the curse. Though I suppose it's interesting to note that Genis aside, the T-Bolts are criminals that have practically made a career out of losing to heroes like the Avengers. Heck, I'll bet the T-Bolts themselves aren't used to winning as many fights as they have been.

[loc_zsu]

well i think they should win just to put the Avengers in there place. After all the Avengers arent undefeatable. There's a first time for every thing.

[Dark Soul # 7]

well i think they should win just to put the Avengers in there place. After all the Avengers arent undefeatable. There's a first time for every thing.
Dude, Avengers have been beaten more than once.

[XPac]

well i think they should win just to put the Avengers in there place. After all the Avengers arent undefeatable. There's a first time for every thing.

Why do the New Avengers need to be put in their place again?

[marvelboy]

Sentry according to most estimates....at a minimum is thanos level power....at best pre-crisis superman/galactus level

[Dark Soul # 7]

Sentry according to most estimates....at a minimum is thanos level power....at best pre-crisis superman/galactus level
Again, I´ve heard that Photon once stalematede skyfather Thor.

[XPac]

Again, I´ve heard that Photon once stalematede skyfather Thor.

And Sentry has stalemated Galactus.

Photon seems to have powered down since his insanity phase (not sure why that's the case... I was never clear why he was so powered up to begin with). It wouldn't be a bad idea to do the same for Sentry. But assuming that's not the case, I think even Photon is outclassed here.

Though I wouldn't necessarily say Photon couldn't handle Sentry... I just don't think he can head to head (Atlas was powerful enough to nearly kill him). He could teleport Sentry away or something... that one act could turn the tide heavily in favor of the T-Bolts.

[Dark Soul # 7]

And Sentry has stalemated Galactus.In a battle that we have never seen and can therefore not know the important details to how Sentry stalemated Galactus.
Photon seems to have powered down since his insanity phase (not sure why that's the case... I was never clear why he was so powered up to begin with). It wouldn't be a bad idea to do the same for Sentry. But assuming that's not the case, I think even Photon is outclassed here.

Though I wouldn't necessarily say Photon couldn't handle Sentry... I just don't think he can head to head (Atlas was powerful enough to nearly kill him). He could teleport Sentry away or something... that one act could turn the tide heavily in favor of the T-Bolts.
Meh, It´ll be intressting to see how Fabian deals with this matter. If Sentry is beaten up It will make my month.

[Devourer of Words]

Meh, It´ll be intressting to see how Fabian deals with this matter. If Sentry is beaten up It will make my month.

I'd say that Photon's Cosmic Awareness will play a part in however the Thunderbolts deal with the Sentry. He seems to have gotten it under control after his bout of insanity so it should help even the odds at least a little...

[pesmerga316]

Sentry according to most estimates....at a minimum is thanos level power....at best pre-crisis superman/galactus level

yea but which Thanos? He seems to get more powerful every year

I would not put him at Thanos lvl and even if that were the case Thanos I think would still beat him due to his other abilities (intelligence for one)

[Doom]

I think what's important is more then Genis just changing his name and costume in New Thunderbolts.

His powers have changed too. He was teleporting around in the latest issue, which was something he never did in his main series. (Bar one or two "re-assembleing himself after being disintigrated" moments."

All in all we don't know what Photon can really do.

Though I will say it's a shame that Ronnin, Wolverine and probably Blizzard and MACH V are going to be sitting this fight out.

[Dark Soul # 7]

When is T-bolts#13 coming out in stores?

[Dermie]

When is T-bolts#13 coming out in stores?

This week, October 5th.

[tricksterpup]

I like the Thunderbolts and all, but why do they have to whoop the New Avengers, and even worse, the writer said that he's going to do something worse to the NA too!

Why do the NA have to be the punching bags?
Because NA stands for Not Avengers. ;)
More than likely, the even worse thing is we are going to have someone come in and explain to us why the New Avengers got their butts whipped.

[Jazzie B]

Avengers Forever is proud to present our latest in a series of excellent chat room sessions. This time we'll be discussing the New Thunderbolts title with special guest writer, Fabian Nicieza. There's a pretty dramatic cliffhanger at the end of New Thunderbolts #13 that will leave Avengers readers very curious!

Anyone interested in sharing their thoughts with Fabian on this topic should feel free to join us! Get all the details by visiting Avengers Forever.

Thank you to the Forum Mod for allowing this post.

[bjtrdff]

Sentry is literally going to force Photon to bite the curb. It won't even be funny. He could literally probably think up and manifest somcething that could take out all the 'bolts without breaking a sweat.

[Dermie]

Sentry is literally going to force Photon to bite the curb. It won't even be funny. He could literally probably think up and manifest somcething that could take out all the 'bolts without breaking a sweat.

Unless of course Genis opened a spatial rift and trapped Sentry in another galaxy or something.... :p

[Jake V]

Unless of course Genis opened a spatial rift and trapped Sentry in another galaxy or something.... :p
Sentry could always teleport himself home.

[Will.S]

And Sentry has stalemated Galactus.
I still can't for the life of me see where this was stated in the mini. Can anyone point me to the issue?

[Dermie]

Sentry could always teleport himself home.

Does Sentry have teleporational abilities to cross entire galaxies??

[Jake V]

Does Sentry have teleporational abilities to cross entire galaxies??
I've seen nothing to suggest that he doesn't.

[CyberCoyote]

Honestly a guy that could stalemate Galactus and can theoretically have any power that he's specifically not been seen UNABLE to use is about as exciting as watching a football game between The Patriots and my son's midget league. If Sentry really is that overwhelmingly God like I hope he gets knocked down to size in his mini.

Genis' senses may allow him to just whisper something to the uber-man that'll send him into a manic depression and keep him from fighting back :)

[Dermie]

I've seen nothing to suggest that he doesn't.

Have you seen anything to suggest he does? Because usually teleportational abilities like that are reserved for cosmic entities like the Beyonder.

[bjtrdff]

Photon cant teleport anyone if Sentry punches a hole through his head before he even knows anyone is around.;)

[Dermie]

Photon cant teleport anyone if Sentry punches a hole through his head before he even knows anyone is around.;)

Given Genis' cosmic awareness, Sentry punching him before he knows he is there isn't really a plausible option (at least not now that Purple Man isn't blocking his CA anymore).

[XPac]

Given Genis' cosmic awareness, Sentry punching him before he knows he is there isn't really a plausible option (at least not now that Purple Man isn't blocking his CA anymore).

Having awareness doesn't necessarily mean you're fast or powerful enough to do anything about it though. If Sentry has Superman level speed, I doubt Genis would be fast enough to avoid Sentry even with his cosmic awareness. Spider-Man's Spider senses (which lately seem completely useless since they seem to always get nailed anyways) will allow him to avoid almost anyone. But a Speeddemon for example is fast enough to tag Spidey regardless of the early warning.

Honestly though, I do wonder to what extend cosmic awareness will be used for the Genis character. They may want to remove the character from the team if he's capable of sensing everything to THAT degree. Writers will probably have to ignore him having that power all the time.

[Jake V]

Given Genis' cosmic awareness, Sentry punching him before he knows he is there isn't really a plausible option (at least not now that Purple Man isn't blocking his CA anymore).
can his awareness account for a being that literally exists several steps ahead of the timestream?

[superion]

His awareness allows him to see events years and even decades into the future so someone who exist a few moments ahead of the time stream is meaningless to him.

[Jake V]

This is kind of interesting. I guess according to this thread, Genis-Vell is way more powerful than the Sentry. That's fine, the power of a character is fairly meaningless complared to how interesting he is to read about.

What's interesting is the amount of bitching and moaning I've heard about how "powerful" the Sentry is compared to the amount of praise Genis gets due to his powers. It's almost the same people doing the complaining/praising in each instance.

Anyone care to guess the reason for this?

[superion]

I've never complained about the Sentry's power level as I like cosmic powered characters. I can't speak for the others but part of the problem may be Sentry is based on earth while Genis was out in space most of the time like the Surfer when he became so powerful. By the way wasn't the Avengers T-Bolt fight issue supposed to come out today.

[Psyco panda]

Photon cant teleport anyone if Sentry punches a hole through his head before he even knows anyone is around.;)

Well, Sentry is the Golden Guardin of GOOD, and murdering a man is typically labeled 'bad'. Especially Genis, since he's a hero. So for this and plot reasons, I don't see that happening.

[Jake V]

Well, Sentry is the Golden Guardin of GOOD, and murdering a man is typically labeled 'bad'. Especially Genis, since he's a hero. So for this and plot reasons, I don't see that happening.
Did you miss when Sentry ripped Carnage in half? What about when he decapitated Attuma?

[protege]

Did you miss when Sentry ripped Carnage in half? What about when he decapitated Attuma?
I missed that last one.

[CyberCoyote]

Genis' power levels certainly aren't always consistent. I like a cosmic level guy around, but not always. Like Thor in the Avengers I'd kinda like him to be on the fickle side and just pop in and out on his own schedule. Fabian's doing a good job of keeping him distracted by his own cosmic awareness.

Same goes for Sentry, some conflicts in scheduling with the NA would be a nice breather.

With the reveal from the end of NTB #13 I'm wondering if the NA have some major changes coming or if that's a developement strictly limited to the scope of the Bolts, though.

[thik_3rd]

With the reveal from the end of NTB #13 I'm wondering if the NA have some major changes coming or if that's a developement strictly limited to the scope of the Bolts, though.
i doubt any major changes to na will be introduced through ntb. or any changes at all, minor or major.
also, about the mystery character on the last page... (i'll try to do this without spoiling it)

it's obviously _________ seeing as he made a comment about being there in the beginning. but why did he have [the object on the table] with him since it looks like the person who previously used it may be alive in HOM? will that person not survive HOM?

[CyberCoyote]

Maybe ________ was wearing it but it wasn't affected by the ___ ________ because of some HoM debacle? :)

I like Grummet a lot, but I never would have figured who that was without the tells, maybe it was why they were there. He looks just like the guy who's on the cover of 15 as Hyperion, who also looks like Atlas.

And yeah, developements in NA move along at about the same pace as a morbidly obese gopher scaling the Great Wall of China (which is fine for folks who enjoy it), so even if it were inter related I wouldn't expect it to be reflected in NA until well into next year or so.

It's written to look like they're using the TBolts to get at the NA, but I think they're really setting up the 'Bolts :) (but then Genis would know that..or wouldn't he..or would Sentry? I'm so confused already..)

[thik_3rd]

Maybe ________ was wearing it but it wasn't affected by the ___ ________ because of some HoM debacle? :)

you lost me.



I like Grummet a lot, but I never would have figured who that was without the tells, maybe it was why they were there. He looks just like the guy who's on the cover of 15 as Hyperion, who also looks like Atlas.
well, it's not just grummet, a lot of artists only have one or two generic male faces they use for their characters. i mean, back in the day, you couldn't distinguish cap, hawkeye and goliath when they were out of costume. i'll have to check the cover of 15 again now, i don't remember it.

[CyberCoyote]

It was a bad joke made hopeless by blank spaces, thik, sent ya a PM so as to not spoil.

And yeah, it's a common problem in comics, not just Grummet. The FF could always toss a blond wig on Alicia and the bad guys would think it was Sue :)

It's actually T-Bolts 16 that features the 'New' Squadron with the Hyperion guy...(both covers DO feature NightHawk, one of my all time faves and former Squadron sinster member :) )

[streator]

This is kind of interesting. I guess according to this thread, Genis-Vell is way more powerful than the Sentry. That's fine, the power of a character is fairly meaningless complared to how interesting he is to read about.

What's interesting is the amount of bitching and moaning I've heard about how "powerful" the Sentry is compared to the amount of praise Genis gets due to his powers. It's almost the same people doing the complaining/praising in each instance.

Anyone care to guess the reason for this?

genis is a busiek/pad character

sentry (never meant to be an ongoing yet is) is the devil; down with joey q/new such and such compliants

fans like those whom which they can associate.



EDIT:

/we are still reading, those who care
//all the numbers diminshing
///throw it away? will it be the same?
i have been out
but i still remember
the same?
tis' shame
tis' shame

[XPac]

Well, Sentry is the Golden Guardin of GOOD, and murdering a man is typically labeled 'bad'. Especially Genis, since he's a hero. So for this and plot reasons, I don't see that happening.

Course, Sentry had no problem ripping Carnage in half. That was murder, even though he was murdering a monster. Not to argue that he would put Photon in the same category as Carnage, but he's clearly no boyscout.

[XPac]

This is kind of interesting. I guess according to this thread, Genis-Vell is way more powerful than the Sentry. That's fine, the power of a character is fairly meaningless complared to how interesting he is to read about.

What's interesting is the amount of bitching and moaning I've heard about how "powerful" the Sentry is compared to the amount of praise Genis gets due to his powers. It's almost the same people doing the complaining/praising in each instance.

Anyone care to guess the reason for this?


I think the point about Photon and Sentry is that Sentry with his cosmic awareness and teleportation is capable of dealing with Sentry, not that he's more powerful. Head to head, Sentry is still vastly more powerful. Atlas was able to nearly kill the guy, so he's nowhere near as strong or as durable.

As for their power levels... personally I think both are too powerful. They'll either need to be absent a lot of the time, or they'll have to be underwritten. In the present Avengers storyline they're facing ninja's... that's a pretty underwhelming threat for a guy that toss' around heralds of Galactus like they are nothing.

[StoneGold]

genis is a busiek/pad character





Actually, no. Genis was first written by Ron Marz, and I'm guessing was designed by Ron Lim. Ron drew the cover of Silver Surfer Annual #6, and Joe Phillips did the interior, but Genis looked like a Lim-created character. Then came the FabNic written miniseries. Then oblivion. Then Busiek revived him in AF.

[Kevinroc]

sentry (never meant to be an ongoing yet is) is the devil; down with joey q/new such and such compliants



Sentry was created by Paul Jenkins in an attempt to tell a story he had been trying to sell for many, many years. He had always intended to return to the character in some form and was pleased as all hell when Bendis decided to use the character for New Avengers.

[Dermie]

What's interesting is the amount of bitching and moaning I've heard about how "powerful" the Sentry is compared to the amount of praise Genis gets due to his powers. It's almost the same people doing the complaining/praising in each instance.

Anyone care to guess the reason for this?

Oh, Genis gets his fair share of bitching about being over-powered too! I've seen plenty of posts in various forums about Genis being too powerful for the team. And I've had some concerns about his power levels myself.

I just like to point out Genis' power levels in this thread because I get tired of people just taking it for granted that Sentry would be able to wipe the floor with the entire group of T-Bolts without even breaking a sweat. :)