New Thunderbolts Issue 12 *spoilers ahoy!* [Archive]

Jared_Humpherys

09-14-2005, 04:55 PM

Brief summary:

The issue begins ten days after issue 10(pretty much ignoring 11, being a Wanda woogie). Atlas comes back from the dead just in time to save Songbird. It seems that Purple Man has been using tiny holes in space to make commands to all of those under his control. Long story short, the group manages to take down Killgrave, Photon remembers what happened to him(and we get an explanation why Atlas was able to get the drop on him: Killgrave blinded his cosmic awareness), takes down Killgrave, and gets a new costume change. Songbird rejoisn the team, but as a leader(great idea, Fabian!). Atlas apologizes to Genis, professing that he did it under Purple Man's control(which is untrue, as avengers has shown that ionic beings cannot be taken over by Killgrave). Genis knows Atlas is lying, but forgives him anyways.

And we also ind out whos' really been pulling the strings: Baron Zemo, in possession of the 2 Moonstones!

This was, hands, down, the best issue I've read of New Thunderbolts thus far. Action packed, and chock full of surprises.

Flight

09-14-2005, 05:01 PM

So it ties in with the Avengers/TBolts mini?

Jared_Humpherys

09-14-2005, 05:03 PM

So it ties in with the Avengers/TBolts mini?

Yep, and it sets the stage for the upcoming conflict between the New Avengers and New Thunderbolts(if the next issue blurb is to be believed).

Titan Slade

09-14-2005, 06:08 PM

Did you say that Genis gets a new costume(he needs one), or Atlas? Thanks.

Dermie

09-14-2005, 06:09 PM

Did you say that Genis gets a new costume(he needs one), or Atlas? Thanks.

Genis gets a new costume.

Titan Slade

09-14-2005, 06:21 PM

Genis gets a new costume.

Does it look cool?

Alpha to Omega

09-14-2005, 06:22 PM

Genis' new costume is a rip-off of Northstar's without the white thing on the hip.

Ravenheart

09-14-2005, 06:23 PM

Does it look cool?

Its not too bad.All black with a silver/white starburst around the neck.

Titan Slade

09-14-2005, 06:31 PM

Its not too bad.All black with a silver/white starburst around the neck.

Ok, thanks. I won't pick up my pull list untill next week.

Ravenheart

09-14-2005, 06:40 PM

Ok, thanks. I won't pick up my pull list untill next week.

I was trying to find a pic of it but it must still be too early.

DMike

09-14-2005, 06:41 PM

Yeah, there's definitely a Northstar vibe about it; not sure what that says about Genis.

Alpha to Omega

09-14-2005, 06:43 PM

Yeah, there's definitely a Northstar vibe about it; not sure what that says about Genis.

That Fabian likes to have him rip-off other heroes names and costumes? Am I the only one who hates what Fabian's doing to Genis' character?

Titan Slade

09-14-2005, 06:46 PM

That Fabian likes to have him rip-off other heroes names and costumes? Am I the only one who hates what Fabian's doing to Genis' character?

It's not his fault. the Marvel executives wanted to use the Captain Marvel trademark for a future unnamed story, hence the changes.

CyberCoyote

09-14-2005, 07:00 PM

I really like Genis' new costume. They even remark about all the name changes and costume alterations and Genis says that he'll stop when he finds what he likes :)

Definitely the best NTB issue yet, and probably the best read for me this year. Can't wait to take on the NA!

Titan Slade

09-14-2005, 07:06 PM

I really like Genis' new costume. They even remark about all the name changes and costume alterations and Genis says that he'll stop when he finds what he likes :)

It would be cool if he wore a new costume in every issue.

Ravenheart

09-14-2005, 07:07 PM

It would be cool if he wore a new costume in every issue.

LOL yeah he could be the male version of the Wasp.

Bruce Wayne Jr.

09-14-2005, 07:09 PM

Apologies to Jared for going over his head, but here's (http://www.comicboards.com/tbolts/view.php?trd=050912045933) a link to RonnieThunderbolts' mock-up of Genis' new costume. Great work as usual, Jared!

And I agree, this was a great issue of Thunderbolts. A lot of things came to a head, and it's always great to see Zemo. Anybody else think Purple Man was speaking for Fabian, just a wee bit?

Titan Slade

09-14-2005, 07:12 PM

Apologies to Jared for going over his head, but here's (http://www.comicboards.com/tbolts/view.php?trd=050912045933) a link to RonnieThunderbolts' mock-up of Genis' new costume. Great work as usual, Jared!

And I agree, this was a great issue of Thunderbolts. A lot of things came to a head, and it's always great to Zemo. Anybody else think Purple Man was speaking for Fabian, just a wee bit?

Thanks for the link, and the new look is ok, but could be a lot better.

Alpha to Omega

09-14-2005, 07:44 PM

It's not his fault. the Marvel executives wanted to use the Captain Marvel trademark for a future unnamed story, hence the changes.

He could of had Genis choose a different name than Photon and he could of had him use an original costume instead of ripping off Northstar. Hell I'm not even sure that Marvel said anything to him about having to change Genis' mind and he isn't just trying to pass the buck like other writers ar marvel like Bendis and JMS have done.

superion

09-14-2005, 07:59 PM

thik_3rd

09-14-2005, 08:04 PM

The new costume stinks in my opinion. Why didn't they just keep the green and white costume he had at the end of his last series with Peter David.

With Zemo back will we see Moonstone/Meteorite come out of her coma anytime soon?
im pretty syre that at the end of david's last series, he went back to the red/yellow costume.

it's good to have the big z back.

Titan Slade

09-14-2005, 08:10 PM

Has anybody heard how many more issues of the New Thunderbolts Marvel has committed to publishing before it gets canned?

Dermie

09-14-2005, 10:04 PM

Has anybody heard how many more issues of the New Thunderbolts Marvel has committed to publishing before it gets canned?

The book is greenlighted until AT LEAST #24...but there is currently no talk of cancellation.

im pretty syre that at the end of david's last series, he went back to the red/yellow costume.

He went back to that design, but it was now white instead of red.

He could of had Genis choose a different name than Photon and he could of had him use an original costume instead of ripping off Northstar. Hell I'm not even sure that Marvel said anything to him about having to change Genis' mind and he isn't just trying to pass the buck like other writers ar marvel like Bendis and JMS have done.

1) "Photon" is an appropriate name for Genis, since his power is to manipulate photonic energy. Using that name also gave him a story opportunity, to have a Genis/Monica encounter.

2) Tom Grummett designed the costume, not Fabian, so if you dislike the costume at least put the "blame" where it belongs.

3) Considering that Fabian has always been open before about what was his decision and what was Marvel's (for example, when he explained to people that he was not "forced" to participate in House of M), AND one of the editors (Tom Brevoort, I believe) also said that Fabian was asked to change the name, I don't think your suspicion has any basis.

ChildOfTheDarkholde

09-14-2005, 10:36 PM

The costume that Photon wears looks like Northstar's...

protege

09-14-2005, 10:45 PM

Thanks for the link, and the new look is ok, but could be a lot better.
Frankly, it looks too similar to Blizzard's costume.

Dermie

09-14-2005, 11:12 PM

Frankly, it looks too similar to Blizzard's costume.

When powered down, sure...but somehow I don't think anyone is going to have trouble telling them apart when Genis has that starfield all over him, and the glowing lights.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard gets a new look in the not-too-distant future. It has been mentioned in a few issues that his suit could use an upgrade, so we might just see that happen before long.

cosmicspidey

09-15-2005, 02:26 AM

It's great to see Zemo back. Always is. This was the 6th marvel book i read this week and the first one that actually had me excited while i was reading it. Great job by Fabian, Tom and co.

hbkabdul

09-15-2005, 03:42 AM

That Fabian likes to have him rip-off other heroes names and costumes? Am I the only one who hates what Fabian's doing to Genis' character?

Could care less about the costume or name change but i too do not like how Fabian is writing Genis. It's one of the reasons i dropped the book. Its an ok book though i encourage everyone to try it out. i mised the House of M issue though i really wanted to read it.

boolean

09-15-2005, 03:47 AM

Biggest advantage over the previous costume?

He doesn't look naked. :D

cass195

09-15-2005, 09:10 AM

Personally, I thought the red & blue starface look was great. His new costume is fine though, I agree it's better than the nude look.

As far as how he's being written, the whole second volume of Captain Marvel was about him having problems with mind and powers, so to have him show up and be fine wouldn't make sense. I like that they're not ignoring that and continuing Genis' healing (for lack of a better word).

I'm really digging this book. It's always smart, superhero fun. Fabian doesn't get enough love. This and Cable & Deadpool are two of the best books out there.

ChildOfTheDarkholde

09-15-2005, 10:09 AM

StoneGold

09-15-2005, 10:32 AM

Genis' new costume also looks like one of the Starmen. Or Superman, when he had the black costume. It's a black costume with a white starburst. Get over it.

Oh, and it looks like FabNic found a better way out of the Purple Man continuity problem with New Avengers. Zemo had snuck Killgrave out of prison, and snuck him back in when he didn't toe the line.

Frank

09-15-2005, 10:47 AM

Songbird as leader makes as much sens as when Rogue and Gambit lead the X-Men. Remember that fiasco?

Zemo Rules

Dermie

09-15-2005, 11:56 AM

Songbird as leader makes as much sens as when Rogue and Gambit lead the X-Men. Remember that fiasco?

Zemo Rules

I think Songbird as leader makes perfect sense--things have been building in that direction for a while. Songbird has become much more confident and commanding in recent times, and has shown a natural leadership ability in a number of issues of NTB.
Abe, on the other hand, has made some questionable decisions, and has not been particularily effective thus far in making this group into a co-ordinated team (see for example the fiasco in #8 when the T-Bolts almost lost to Batroc's Brigade).

nexuscb

09-15-2005, 05:52 PM

What was with the female Dr Spectrum, when did she first appear? Is she a villain or hero?

Ravenheart

09-15-2005, 06:06 PM

I think Songbird as leader makes perfect sense--things have been building in that direction for a while. Songbird has become much more confident and commanding in recent times, and has shown a natural leadership ability in a number of issues of NTB.
Abe, on the other hand, has made some questionable decisions, and has not been particularily effective thus far in making this group into a co-ordinated team (see for example the fiasco in #8 when the T-Bolts almost lost to Batroc's Brigade).

I agree.I think she'll make a pretty good leader for the team.The character has grown alot since the first issue of Thunderbolts Vol.1.

FabianNicieza

09-15-2005, 07:43 PM

He could of had Genis choose a different name than Photon and he could of had him use an original costume instead of ripping off Northstar. Hell I'm not even sure that Marvel said anything to him about having to change Genis' mind and he isn't just trying to pass the buck like other writers ar marvel like Bendis and JMS have done.

I could always respond with what you deserve, which is something snarky, but instead, I'll actually address your points:

1) the first time I saw the new costume is when I got Jpeg copies of the pencils. I didn't even know the color scheme until I saw it in print. The design was totally up to Tom G. to come up with, Tom B. to approve and I assume the Toms and Chris to color design.
All I did is ask for a new costume to reflect his ongoing changes.

Swing and a miss on your first point.

2) I have stated countless times -- and been backed up in public by my editor -- that we changed CM's name because Marvel had some publinshing program plans that included the Captain Marvel trademark.
I personally have no problem with the change. I still think of Genis as Legacy. :-)

Swing and a miss on your second point.

3) I could have had him choose a different name than photon. But go figure, he controls photonic energy, emits a photon trail when he flies, and the name was being taken by a character he'd already taken a name from once before.
How could I resist?

You fouled off that pitch, since technically, you're right.

Keep swinging, you might get a hit yet...

-- fabian

Dermie

09-15-2005, 08:51 PM

What was with the female Dr Spectrum, when did she first appear? Is she a villain or hero?

This is her first appearance. Hero or villain...we'll have to wait and see.

cosmicspidey

09-15-2005, 11:45 PM

This is her first appearance. Hero or villain...we'll have to wait and see.

No, she appeared a long time ago, but she's been MIA for probably 20 years. She's in an old Avengers annual I have in trade form.

Dermie

09-15-2005, 11:47 PM

No, she appeared a long time ago, but she's been MIA for probably 20 years. She's in an old Avengers annual I have in trade form.

No--that was the Wasp. She was being mind controlled by the Power Prism.

PaxHouse

09-16-2005, 11:42 AM

This is her first appearance. Hero or villain...we'll have to wait and see.

...Although it would be surprizing if the New Dr. Spectrum turns out to be.... a revived Dr. Karla Sofen AKA the former Moonstone...!!

protege

09-16-2005, 11:56 AM

...Although it would be surprizing if the New Dr. Spectrum turns out to be.... a revived Dr. Karla Sofen AKA the former Moonstone...!!
I'd love it if that were true, but i want the new Dr. Spectrum to be a good guy.

BoosterBronze

09-16-2005, 11:59 AM

Help me out gang.
Last time we saw Zemeister was the end of Avengers/TBolts, where he and the TBolts that stayed with him (I cant remember who, Harrier? Skein?) were going to take over the world again to save it.

Currently my back issues are stored far far from me, so I need a memory boost on this. Thanks.

thik_3rd

09-16-2005, 02:20 PM

the bolts team during vengers/bolts was...

zemo
moonstone
fixer
atlas
songbird
mach x
blackheath
vantage
jolt (for just an issue or two)

i think that was it.
zemo's face was disfigured again.
moonstone lost both moonstones.
fixer popped up in cable/deadpool.
atlas, songbird and mach are in new bolts. (didn't mach willingly go back to jail at the end? and it was never explained how he was white again. songbird turned down an avengers membership offer.)
blackheath i don't remember.
vantage got a job working with carol danvers and in this issue was revealed to be back in a wheelchair when atlas absorbed her power.
jolt is back on planet zoom.

the rest of the bolts that were in the original series are still mia.

Frank

09-17-2005, 08:51 AM

I think Songbird as leader makes perfect sense--things have been building in that direction for a while. Songbird has become much more confident and commanding in recent times, and has shown a natural leadership ability in a number of issues of NTB.
Abe, on the other hand, has made some questionable decisions, and has not been particularily effective thus far in making this group into a co-ordinated team (see for example the fiasco in #8 when the T-Bolts almost lost to Batroc's Brigade).

I just don`t think it works. It has not points, doesn`t advance the Thunderbolts concept at all. I never thought the character was ever interesting to begin with. Zemo and Moonstone were always ever the most interesting characters of the team and the kind-of leader they need.

As for the Batroc`s Brigade, Batroc should be in Thunderbolts. lol

Taskmaster

09-17-2005, 04:50 PM

I could always respond with what you deserve, which is something snarky, but instead, I'll actually address your points:

1) the first time I saw the new costume is when I got Jpeg copies of the pencils. I didn't even know the color scheme until I saw it in print. The design was totally up to Tom G. to come up with, Tom B. to approve and I assume the Toms and Chris to color design.
All I did is ask for a new costume to reflect his ongoing changes.

Swing and a miss on your first point.

2) I have stated countless times -- and been backed up in public by my editor -- that we changed CM's name because Marvel had some publinshing program plans that included the Captain Marvel trademark.
I personally have no problem with the change. I still think of Genis as Legacy. :-)

Swing and a miss on your second point.

3) I could have had him choose a different name than photon. But go figure, he controls photonic energy, emits a photon trail when he flies, and the name was being taken by a character he'd already taken a name from once before.
How could I resist?

You fouled off that pitch, since technically, you're right.

Keep swinging, you might get a hit yet...

-- fabian

Fabian

Any chane we'll see whats been going on with Moostone's body? Or maybe an appearance by Skein, Fixer (please!) or my personal favorite choice Harrier aka Cardinal? Or any other T-Bolts for that matter? I love the new guys, but I also wanna see the old guys and what they think of the team, maybe get an update on where they've been. Great issue though, the best yet, the end was AWESOME and I can't wait to see more!

K'Nort

09-17-2005, 07:13 PM

I so loved this issue. I've been buying them probably mostly out of love for the original. But this was great all the way through and then to also get one of those yelp-inducing last pages..... Very happy.

marvelboi77

09-17-2005, 09:25 PM

When Thunderbolts came out it was my favorite series for a long time. I was disapointed when it was cancelled. I do like the new Thunderbolts right now but not as much as the first series. Songbird is my favorite character from the team followed by Moonstone.

Doom

09-18-2005, 05:06 PM

Doom

09-18-2005, 05:08 PM

Fabian

Any chane we'll see whats been going on with Moostone's body? Or maybe an appearance by Skein, Fixer (please!) or my personal favorite choice Harrier aka Cardinal? Or any other T-Bolts for that matter? I love the new guys, but I also wanna see the old guys and what they think of the team, maybe get an update on where they've been. Great issue though, the best yet, the end was AWESOME and I can't wait to see more!

Fixer was shown fighting the T-Bolts alongside Zemo in the vision of the future that Genis had. (It's shown in issue 11 and again in 12.)

Dermie

09-18-2005, 08:54 PM

Blackheath went to a facility to get his humanity restored.

Not exactly. Bleackheath turned himself in to prison to finish serving his sentence (since he had escaped from prison when he first got involved with the T-Bolts). He figured that was as good a place for him as any while he figures out how to be human again, since he lost his connection to "the green" and reverted to human form after the battle with Moonstone.

Gaz

09-19-2005, 10:18 AM

I hope bendis adresses this eventually...Going by Purple man's history with women, and the words he used regarding Jessica and also going by the time frame that seems to have passed since she was captured, it looks to me like he might have mind-controlled her into sleeping with him...
If the bastard raped and violated Jessica like that, it should not be a plot point that is forgotten or dismissed, and I hope that sooner or later Jessica Drew kicks PM's ass.
After what she did to Wolverine in The Savage Land for so much less than this, it's not hard to imagine what she would do to a man that so vilely and cowardly
took advantage of her body and mind .
I hope he gets his comeuppance at her hands...
She can get in line behind Melissa.
It was a good move to keep Kilgrave that depraved (and Jessica's pheremones making him want her is an interesting twist), eventually the Alias disgust was going to wear off, but if he keeps going like that then he becomes truly loathsome, and a great B list villain (not quite A list yet, but give it time)