Does Anybody Still Like Rob Liefeld?

[Hellpop]

I've been trying to puzzle this out ever since I saw the solicitation for the Teen Titans Rob Liefeld issues... just what were they thinking? I mean, they don't really think that the name "Rob Liefeld" still sells comic books, do they? Can editors at the Big Two be so out of touch with their readership that they don't know the guy is like sales death?

Or am I wrong? Is there still a Liefeld fan base? Do people get excited when they see his name? Did anyone see his return to X- Force and cry "At last!"
Do they still wait impatiently for Youngblood to return?

If so, I may have to just start buying baseball cards....

[ExoKnight]

Back in the hayday of comic boom of the late eighties/early nineties I liked Rob Liefeld and looked forward to Youngbloods. Now, I could care less about him. Teen Titans is on my pull list and first part of the arc was how-hum, he style of art is kinda a turn off for me now.

The whole Image/Valiant comic phase doesn't interest me anymore.

[BoosterBronze]

I want to. I still enjoy early Youngblood and his oft-hated run on Cap. America.

I was stoked to read his Teen Titans... but it seems his once intense and vibrant drawing style is now just lazy. Im not an artist, and cant put my thumb on what exactly is different, but instead of seeming energetic, it just seems amaturish.

[Hellpop]

I want to. I still enjoy early Youngblood and his oft-hated run on Cap. America.

I was stoked to read his Teen Titans... but it seems his once intense and vibrant drawing style is now just lazy. Im not an artist, and cant put my thumb on what exactly is different, but instead of seeming energetic, it just seems amaturish.

Well, I always thought that energy was what those guys (the Image guys, that is) had going for them. They drew the way kids would if they could, and I think that's really where their appeal stems from.

[Skytheen]

I can't stand his art. I won't be picking up those Teen Titan issues

[prismablue]

I don't dislike him. Seems to me alot of people put alot of energy into bashing this guy and anyone who likes his work.

[DMike]

Given the fact that he donated his proceeds from Teen Titans to one of the Hurricane Katrina relief charities, I can't dislike him. Not a fan of his art, but certainly nothing against Rob himself.

[titanfan]

Sadly, it seems like his name still does sell books, at least in a guest capacity.

[Gingold]

He has no concept of anatomy, but his art is dynamic and fun. I wouldn't ever nominate him for any art awards but he does good mindless cartoony action fun. I enjoyed the Titans issue that he just did. I wouldn't want him drawing every issue but it's a nice change of pace and more engaging than whoever's been drawing the book lately.

[Toonimator]

Yeah, there's plenty of people who do like him... check out the Herorealm forums for a whole bevy of sycophants! Any negativity towards the man is edited or deleted by the man himself, so he's got his own little domain to wallow in praise of him & his work. Out in the real world, his comics mostly sell well as items to make fun of, I think. My local shop, very close to several animation studios, sold out of his first TT issue in a couple hours, and I find it hard to believe that so many GOOD artists would buy it for any reasons other than to follow Gail's writing, complete their Titans collection, or to laugh uproariously at the pictures in the book. I actually wanted to flip through it, but it'd sold out before I got there. Thankfully kind souls on the Drawing Board have posted several pages, complete with new blank word balloons for hours of entertainment. The pages I saw definitely prove that he's not hired for his skill, just his fame & infamy. There are dozens upon dozens of far more talented & skilled artists out there who'd do much better on the books he's been working on.

[Lorendiac]

He has no concept of anatomy, but his art is dynamic and fun.

As near as I can recall (been quite some time since I reread any of the stuff in my collection that featured his pencils) he does have some concept of anatomy. He knows that women have really long, slender legs, and also these big spherical things on their chests.

Doesn't that qualify as a "concept"? I don't say his proportions were reliably accurate regarding such nitpicking details as what percentage of a woman's height is usually in her legs, or what the proper ratio is regarding the size of one breast compared to the size of her entire head, but it still qualifies as a consistent concept that is related to the subject of human anatomy :)

[jwmojo]

I like his art. He draws comic books, and for me the concept hasn't changed since I was a kid: guys and girls in spandex with huge, defined muscles. I would disagree with the idea that he has no notion of anatomy. It's obvious that he does, but as Lorendiac says, his proportions are a tad unrealistic. As far as that goes, I just don't care.

On top of that, the man is just a class act all the way. I find it hard to believe that he deletes or edits anything negative on any message board (I'm not saying I doubt it's done, just that he does it). Too many times I've seen him respond in an incredibly polite and respectful manner to people on message boards who criticise his work in a seriously rude manner.

[Dan Cassidy]

The only thing of his I have ever liked was his Hawk and Dove mini-series from way back. Since then, I can't stand his art. His proportions are horrible, his chins all come to points and everybody, I mean everybody is either yelling or gritting their teeth. Why can't he just go away?

[Alex]

Can editors at the Big Two be so out of touch with their readership that they don't know the guy is like sales death?
.
You're wrong is the thing.
He was getting trashed back when he returned to cable, those cable issues sold better then the series had since...well, since he left. And this with an issue that featured no backgrounds and was entirely made up of splash pages.
X Force )If im not mistaken) sold well when it was put out, with liefeld on art, and the preview art being trashed at all levels.

[Alan2099]

It doesn't feel like X-force without Liefeld. Whetehr that's a good thing or not, that's up to you to decided, but if nothing else, I can say that the guys at least really enthusiastic to be working in comics and doesn't pointlessly kill off major characters or write rape into his stories.

[Lorendiac]

I like his art. He draws comic books, and for me the concept hasn't changed since I was a kid: guys and girls in spandex with huge, defined muscles. I would disagree with the idea that he has no notion of anatomy. It's obvious that he does, but as Lorendiac says, his proportions are a tad unrealistic. As far as that goes, I just don't care.

On top of that, the man is just a class act all the way. I find it hard to believe that he deletes or edits anything negative on any message board (I'm not saying I doubt it's done, just that he does it). Too many times I've seen him respond in an incredibly polite and respectful manner to people on message boards who criticise his work in a seriously rude manner.

I have to admit something: When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought something along these lines: "Still like him? Well, I certainly don't hate Rob Liefeld. He may be a great guy if you get to know him; but I've never met him and really have nothing against him as a person. Now, if you wanted to ask how we felt about his artistic style, that would be an entirely different question!" :)

I thought about making that particular nitpick, but didn't bother typing it all out at the time. Maybe I should have.

[Hellpop]

I have to admit something: When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought something along these lines: "Still like him? Well, I certainly don't hate Rob Liefeld. He may be a great guy if you get to know him; but I've never met him and really have nothing against him as a person. Now, if you wanted to ask how we felt about his artistic style, that would be an entirely different question!" :)

I thought about making that particular nitpick, but didn't bother typing it all out at the time. Maybe I should have.

Perhaps I should have phrased it that way. There was actually a good interview with him in the Comics Journal, of all places, right after he left Image. And he did come off as a nice guy. Certainly not the raving egomaniac Todd McFarlane is. But no, I was referring to his work.

Which I, as you may have guessed, don't like. ;)

[PatrickG]

I like his work. I agree it's not necessarily, the BEST, technically. But I'd prefer his stuff to photoboxed/photoshopped comics.

Neal Adams once said, "I try to get the perfect balance of cream and sugar."

No. Wait. That's what he said when I met him at a Starbucks.

Neal Adams once said that an artist's "style" are all the flaws that keep it from being photorealistic. An artist whose work looks like a photograph doesn't have a style.

Rob Liefeld has a LOT of style.

I can't say I seek out everything he does (and there are people who dropped comics in the 90s who will come back for Rob's art) but I think his stuff is fun to look at and that he's a nice guy.

I'd probably take Jim Lee or Ed McGuiness or Rags Morales first, generally, but I think Rob Liefeld's art is refreshing and the guy himself seems too nice for anyone to hate, even on a purely professional level, without seeming like a bit of a dick.

It's like saying that Pope John Paul II sucked at speechwriting. I mean, yeah, it's an important part of the job but he just seemed like such a nice guy, on the whole, that attacking him for his speechwriting skills would seem petty.

[MKTerra]

Just as a reminder... :)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/hitokiri_/cap1.jpg

[onizuka]

Just as a reminder... :)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/hitokiri_/cap1.jpg

i can't get behind that

[Hellpop]

Neal Adams once said that an artist's "style" are all the flaws that keep it from being photorealistic. An artist whose work looks like a photograph doesn't have a style.

Rob Liefeld has a LOT of style.[QUOTE]

Hate to disagree with Neal Adam, but... I disagree with Neal Adams. Style is the artist's own unique visual interpretation of the world, but that does not necessarily mean it's flawed, or that it's strenghts come from it's flaws. Most of my favorites- Steve Rude, Frank Quitely, for example- are highly stylized but not flawed. Going even farther, Charles Shultz was as stylized as they come, and nothing looked real, and I would fight anyone that called him flawed.

Two things strike me: whether or not a style works is clearly a visceral reaction, rather than an intellectial one. And the key to an effective style is consistency. Liefeld and Jim Lee have nominally the same style, but Lee is MUCH more consistent in his execution.

BTW, would you say Alex Ross doesn't have a style?

[QUOTE]
It's like saying that Pope John Paul II sucked at speechwriting. I mean, yeah, it's an important part of the job but he just seemed like such a nice guy, on the whole, that attacking him for his speechwriting skills would seem petty.

No, if his job is to write speeches, and he's incompetent at it, his being a great guy changes nothing. The world is filled with nice guys who aren't very good at what they do.

[onizuka]

the problem i find is that all his faces look the same to me.

in the latest issue of Teen Titans Cyborg is bowling and joking around but his face looks so serious like he's about to get into a fight even though he's cracking jokes.

[Hellpop]

That last post didn't turn out right... I hope everyone can figure out the part I wrote!

I'm still new at this... :o

[KameTen]

I'm just mad that the man doesn't even try to improve his ability and technique. He keeps schlupping out the same thing he has been drawing since the first comic he did without anybody there to cover his mistakes. And for some reason, he keeps getting work.

I just don't get it.

[thik_3rd]

i love it when ever he has a book coming out. my shop i go to goes all out and puts up liefeld posters, gives his books the "book of the week" and "you should buy this book just for the cover" awards and hang up issues he did on the wall. it turns into a liefeld shrine for a week.

[Charles RB]

The guy himself is probably a classy bloke, but I still think his art is shite.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

It doesn't feel like X-force without Liefeld. Whetehr that's a good thing or not, that's up to you to decided, but if nothing else, I can say that the guys at least really enthusiastic to be working in comics and doesn't pointlessly kill off major characters or write rape into his stories.

I totally agree on this point. I know it's not realistic, but Marvel should have stopped publishing Cable and X-Force when Liefeld left. Those characters are such signature characters for him that I haven't really bought into what anyone else has done with them since, and I wasn't even a big Liefeld fan to begin with.

I think it's a shame that a guy who has some raw talent has never done anything remotely obvious to improve his artwork. There are just some basic things that he continually gets wrong. Not that everyone has to do their artwork in the same cookie-cutter manner, but deviation from the norm is a lot more acceptable if one has the sense that it's intentional and not just a mistake.

That said, I agree with those who have made the point that I don't like or dislike Liefeld as a person, as I don't know him, but I am commenting on his product as a creator.

[Bakema NL]

I hate the word "fan", makes me think of screaming girls.
But yeah, I still like him, why wouldn't I? I don't know the guy personally so no reason to hate him. And I can stomach his art. There are better artists out there, but there are also a lot of artists who don't come close to him.

[The Shadow]

the problem i find is that all his faces look the same to me.
So do Jim Lee's, David Finch's, Rags Morales's, Drew Johnsons, Yannick Paquette's, John Byrne's, Sal and John Buscema's, JRJR's, Jim Aparo's, Jack Kirby's, George Perez's, Leonard Kirk's... and so on and so on.

Most artists have a "face" or 2 they draw.

Jim Lee's Cyclops looks just like Bruce Wayne who looks just like Clark Kent who looks just like Spartan. His women all look slightly asian too... Jean Grey looks like Rogue who looks like Psylocke who looks like Lois Lane who looks like Selena Kyle who looks like Vicky Vale.

[Gingold]

I can understand why people don't like Liefeld's work. What I've never been able to understand is the degree to which people dislike his work.

And I'd certainly take Rob's flawed, crosshatch-filled slugfests over Alex Ross's technically brilliant but lifeless tracings of photos of his friends dressed up in underoos.

[CoffeeStained]

As an artist, Rob's work makes me cringe. When people say Rob doesn't know anatomy, it's technically untrue. He seems to understand form, general proportion, muscle groups, what have you. But his finished work is so sloppy, it seems he almost wilfully ignores these rules. I remember a Cable (I think?) book, (the only Liefeld book I've personally owned) and thinking things like;
"They don't have feet. Why don't they have feet? How are they balancing?"
"Humans have only 32 teeth."
"Her eye, from this perspective, has to be an inch higher on her face than the other one."
"While they're in this hospital scene, she should get her broken shoulder looked at. That clavicle ain't right."
"Hah ha!!! Funny bum!!"

[onizuka]

So do Jim Lee's, David Finch's, Rags Morales's, Drew Johnsons, Yannick Paquette's, John Byrne's, Sal and John Buscema's, JRJR's, Jim Aparo's, Jack Kirby's, George Perez's, Leonard Kirk's... and so on and so on.

Most artists have a "face" or 2 they draw.

Jim Lee's Cyclops looks just like Bruce Wayne who looks just like Clark Kent who looks just like Spartan. His women all look slightly asian too... Jean Grey looks like Rogue who looks like Psylocke who looks like Lois Lane who looks like Selena Kyle who looks like Vicky Vale.

yeah, i guess i can agree with a couple of those. good point. but i think it's a lot more evident in his work because through an entire book no matter what situation the characters are in they've got the same expression on his face.

[Deathlok]

I like his issue of the teen titans he just did. It had hawk & dove in it, gotta love that!

[Hellpop]

I agree about Jim Lee. Doesn't seem to me that his style has progressed all that much over the years. At least Lee started from a better place.

By the way, I'd level many of the same criticisms about Liefeld at Michael Turner, particularly in the way he draws the female body, but everybody else seems to love him. What am I missing?

[Deathlok]

OMG!

you do not like Michael Turner drawing the female form? :eek:

[Paradox]

Deathlok tends to have lots of panic attacks:

OMG!

you do not like Michael Turner drawing the female form? :eek:

I don't either. Michael...women's legs do not take up 75% of their height, spines don't curve like that and waists need room for internal organs. Just FYI. ;) Gimme a Frank Cho any day for that kind of thing.

There's lots of us like that, Deathlock.

[Hellpop]

I don't either. Michael...women's legs do not take up 75% of their height, spines don't curve like that and waists need room for internal organs. Just FYI. ;) Gimme a Frank Cho any day for that kind of thing.

There's lots of us like that, Deathlock.

Exactly. I also don't like those big doe- eyes. Wait, that's J. Scott Cambell. :rolleyes:

[flatPatter]

No.

I assume the question is: Does anybody still like Rob Liefeld's artwork? 'Cause I never met the guy, so I don't know nuthin' about him. But his pencils aren't my flavor.

[Paradox]

That's the actual question, yeah, and there ARE those who still like Rob's work.

I, frankly, have to take issue with those who say he knows muscle groups and anatomy, etc. You may think he does and deliberately avoids it, but I have a hard time understanding an artist that actually does, and deliberately misuses such to such a poor degree (and I think his understanding of anatomy is flawed, not stylized). Is he trying to make his work look like he does, or is it just ignorance? To me, it doesn't matter, as poor work is poor work regardless.

I actually thought he had potential from his New Mutants and Hawk & Dove work, but it's been all downhill since then. You can't go that far into "style" unless you're a Kirby or a Ditko, and to tell you the truth, I wasn't very fond of when they did it either.

[Hellpop]

Liefeld never had any formal art training; he never went to art school so he never learned figure drawing formally. He was a fan who showed a lot of style and exuberance, which is how he broke in. So I think by the time he was being criticized for not having a proper grasp of human anatomy, he was already well established as a star, and not likely to change what was working.

I know that I like Liefeld a lot when he first broke in. I really liked Hawk & Dove; but even by the time X- Force began I had lost my taste for it. I just find it interesting that he seems to be such a pariah for so many fans, yet other artists with very similar styles- Turner, Lee, Larson, Silvestri- are still popular.

[Dan Apodaca]

Liefeld never had any formal art training; he never went to art school so he never learned figure drawing formally. He was a fan who showed a lot of style and exuberance, which is how he broke in. So I think by the time he was being criticized for not having a proper grasp of human anatomy, he was already well established as a star, and not likely to change what was working.

I know that I like Liefeld a lot when he first broke in. I really liked Hawk & Dove; but even by the time X- Force began I had lost my taste for it. I just find it interesting that he seems to be such a pariah for so many fans, yet other artists with very similar styles- Turner, Lee, Larson, Silvestri- are still popular.

Well, there are a lot of us who don't like them, either.

[Hellpop]

Well, there are a lot of us who don't like them, either.

Hallelujah, brother.

[Paradox]

Hellpop notes:

Liefeld never had any formal art training; he never went to art school so he never learned figure drawing formally.

Rob taught himself to draw by copying stuff out of comics.

It shows.