What does "freedom" mean to you?

[BlairH]

I recently got into a discussion in one of my other threads, and I found that the word "freedom" has many meanings, and that not everybody shares my idea of what the word means (well, THAT'S a no-brainer)

To me, freedom means a lack of restraints. I don't believe "restrained freedom" is freedom at all, although I do recognise that some restraints must be placed on me as required by the law. (for example, I don't have the "freedom" to steal, I don't have the "freedom" to murder people at will, etc-and rightly so!) The question for me is a simple one of where to draw the line as to what constitutes an unreasonable restriction and what is a legitimate restriction.

My question to you is this: What does FREEDOM mean to you?

As a Scotsman, I feel it is now my jobto shout "FREEEEEEDOOOOOM!" in a Mel Gibson esque fasion.

[Shellhead]

To me, it means the ability to choose to do anything that doesn't hurt anybody else.

[Erebus]

Personally, I believe theft and murder is wrong, but in America, it's justified because the whole damm country is stolen from killed peoples.

Also, I believe freedom is being allowed to do what you feel is right. If someone feels that they should have the freedom to walk around naked on the street, thats ok, as long as they give me my freedom no to see them.

[jwmojo]

Ideally, I think freedom is the ability to do what you will, as long as it doesn't hurt or infringe on someone else's freedom. (Basically, what Shellhead said)

[Dreadstar]

...it's just another word for "nothin' left to lose..."

[StoneGold]

...it's just another word for "nothin' left to lose..."
Bastard beat me to it.


But it does cost $1.05.

[jwmojo]

...it's just another word for "nothin' left to lose..."

Rock on, Janis

[Dreadstar]

If someone feels that they should have the freedom to walk around on the street, thats ok, as long as they give me my freedom no to see them.


You can make them invisible?


Can you use it on my boss?

[Dreadstar]

Rock on, Janis

Kris.

Janis just perfected it.

[Dreadstar]

Bastard beat me to it.
I owed you one.

[StoneGold]

You can make them invisible?


Can you use it on my boss?
Are you kidding? Then he can see you masturbating to internet child porn while you're supposed to be working.

[Typo Lad]

The moment someone starts talking about Freedom I get edgy. It's usually about how some will get more by limiting another chap's.

[Ayo]

The moment someone starts talking about Freedom I get edgy. It's usually about how some will get more by limiting another chap's.

I owe this man a booze.

[StoneGold]

The moment someone starts talking about Freedom I get edgy. It's usually about how some will get more by limiting another chap's.
Simple conflict theory. There's only so much freedom to go around, and you're not getting any of mine. What is this, communism?

[Fenris]

Political freedom is the ability to do a wide variety of things without being fined or imprisoned. (Or flogged, executed, etc.) It's all about the state not using its coercive state powers on you.

Spiritual freedom is the ability to transcend yourself. It's about breaking free of old addictions, bad habits, bad ideas, and so forth.

The latter is, I think, ultimately more important. (Not that political freedom is unimportant!) But the former is a lot easier to talk about.

õ
For me, anyhow!

[JTLauder]

To me "freedom" is more than just the lack of restraints to do what you want.
True "freedom" also involves the complete lack of any influences, pressures, consequences, etc. You are not truely "free" to do something unless you are able to do it completely of your own free will without any guilt, regrets, worries, or even a second thought.

As such, there is no such thing as complete freedom all the time.

If we are talking about freedom in the political/social setting, as long as we live in a society with other people, we have to have restrictions--be it legal or personal--in order to have the society function cohesively. We impose our own person restrictions/restraints by our own sense of what is right and wrong concerning our interactions with other people. When there is enough consensus by people and lawmakers that the general populus has faltered in an agreed sense of what is personally right and wrong, that's when legal restrictions are set.

[Calybos]

Freedom (to me) means the right--and hopefully, the ability--to do whatever you want, wherever and whenever you want, as long as it doesn't interfere with the freedoms of others. That's part one.

Part two--which is much more important--is the unquestioned right to read, write, speak, think, and believe absolutely anything whatsoever without interference. ACTS can be constrained by law; THOUGHTS cannot.

[BoosterBronze]

Personally, I believe theft and murder is wrong, but in America, it's justified because the whole damm country is stolen from killed peoples.


So obviously it's also ok to kill in: all of Central and South America, Canada, England, all of Europe (because the neolithic kurrgan people wiped out the earlier human settlements), the majority of China, and great stretches of Africa. Am I missing anywhere else conquering people took land from someone? It's easy to forget places like that, because it is the majority of human history.

[BlairH]

Just remember that most of the present human population distribution can be traced back to the Romans, who built their empire and bathed the world in the blood of their barbaric and savage enemies!

[Typo Lad]

Just remember that most of the present human population distribution can be traced back to the Romans, who built their empire and bathed the world in the blood of their barbaric and savage enemies!

Speaking as those whos blood your ancestor's bathed in...


thhhhhhhhhhhhhbt

[BlairH]

Speaking as those whos blood your ancestor's bathed in...


thhhhhhhhhhhhhbt

My ancestors weren't the Romans btw.
I'm of Jewish ancestry (if you recall I used to have this info below my username). I'm not Jewish however, not even half-Jewish (if there is indeed such a thing).

So, sorry if I caused any sort of offence. My original statement was based on my unhealthy obsession of all things Roman (I play Rome: Total War whilst posting here), and I was mainly referring to those barbaric French GAULS! :p

[Typo Lad]

My ancestors weren't the Romans btw.
I'm of Jewish ancestry (if you recall I used to have this info below my username). I'm not Jewish however, not even half-Jewish (if there is indeed such a thing).

So, sorry if I caused any sort of offence. My original statement was based on my unhealthy obsession of all things Roman (I play Rome: Total War whilst posting here), and I was mainly referring to those barbaric French GAULS! :p

It was a generic "you" damnit.

[Night]

To me "freedom" is more than just the lack of restraints to do what you want.
True "freedom" also involves the complete lack of any influences, pressures, consequences, etc. You are not truely "free" to do something unless you are able to do it completely of your own free will without any guilt, regrets, worries, or even a second thought.. Freedom is a sensory depravation tank? ... the complete isolation from any contact from everyone and everything? -- interesting.

Problem is that freedom has many meanings. Which you use depends on the context. Basically it's a state of being unbound from something. What that something is depends on your focus. Freedom to someone in jail could mean merely getting out of the jail. Another person might see freedom is not having to fear the person in jail. Some one who has an addiction could see freedom as not having to focus on said addiction. Someone else who has the same addiction could see freedom as not being persecuted for that addiction. An outsider to the addiction could see freedom as absence of ill influences associated with said addiction. The problem is when one person’s focus interferes with another’s focus. What one person sees as freedom… another sees as hell.

------------------------------
freedom
comes from it's roots

Free - with no cost
Dumb - not speaking
------------------------------

[Solaris]

I beg to differ:

"Dom" isn't from "dumb; it's a suffix that indicates a state---either an actual state (property) or a state of being.

I think you've gotten some very good answers to your question, Blair.

To me, there's legal freedoms (my protected rights to choose my religion, my lifestyle, etc. without legal or economic interference from government or other parties, so long as said freedoms do not pose active physical harm to others). In other words, my freedom for religion gets limited if my religion demands I go beat someone up every month---because beating someone causes bodily harm and infringes on that person's rights. Political freedoms are also included in the legal freedoms group.

Then there's personal freedoms: freedom from being ostracized by others, freedom from debt, freedom within the soul... that sort of thing. Sometimes personal freedoms overlap with legal ones (i.e. situational regarding stuff like being ostracized also violating discrimination laws, etc., or laws that protect your religious freedoms from being violated. etc.). Debt? Well, that one's largely up to the individual---but it's one of the most sought-after freedoms around. :)

Freedom within the soul? That's the biggest one we have, the one that's our birthright as a human being, and the one that requires the most work of all. A lot of how we deal with the world revolves around how we process the world, internally. And it's one of the very few things that we can *take* absolute control over, if we choose to and learn how.

[JTLauder]

To me "freedom" is more than just the lack of restraints to do what you want.
True "freedom" also involves the complete lack of any influences, pressures, consequences, etc. You are not truely "free" to do something unless you are able to do it completely of your own free will without any guilt, regrets, worries, or even a second thought..Freedom is a sensory depravation tank? ... the complete isolation from any contact from everyone and everything? -- interesting.

Problem is that freedom has many meanings. Which you use depends on the context. Basically it's a state of being unbound from something.
You just answered yourself and explained my point--freedom in its most basic definition IS the state of one being able to do/feel/be whatever one choose completely unbound...from not only legal restrictions, but also mental, socialty, spiritual, or personal restriction, obligation, influence, consequences, etc.

For example, just because there is no law against someone parking in front of your house so he goes ahead and does that but then impinges upon your freedom to park in front of your own house. Now you being aware of the inconsiderateness of such actions, you are careful not to park in front of other people's houses--thus you have placed your own restraint on your freedom to park whereever you want.

And can you say you freely chose out of your free will to take a job just for the heck of it if you didn't have to worry making a living, paying the bills, and supporting your family, and that that is just something you have to do?

Or can you really say you freely choose to study long into the night without the threat of failing the test the next day?

Or can a devout Catholic really be free to use birth control during sex when he feels guilty he is commiting a sin?

Or can you say you are really free to eat all the hamburgers and fried foods you want when you know and will end up with and suffer from cardiovascular disease as the price?

Or can you say you are really free to drink all you want in a party and act like a fool and get sick in front of everyone when you know it embarrasses you and your family and that they will ostracize you as a jerk?

Basically, just because there is no law that says you can't do something, can you truely say you choose to do something out of your own free will if there wasn't something influencing you to make one decision over another?

[BoosterBronze]

You just answered yourself and explained my point--freedom in its most basic definition IS the state of one being able to do/feel/be whatever one choose completely unbound...from not only legal restrictions, but also mental, socialty, spiritual, or personal restriction, obligation, influence, consequences, etc.


So Freedom is just another word for being a sociopath?

[Solaris]

Freedom has to go hand-in-hand with both Justice and Compassion.

Using the three together, one can usually find an equitable balance in nearly any situation.

[Paul McEnery]

As an old boho, economic freedom means not having to break your brain on some appalling job, and getting to do your own creative thing instead.

[BoosterBronze]

Freedom has to go hand-in-hand with both Justice and Compassion.

Using the three together, one can usually find an equitable balance in nearly any situation.

My dad always said freedom is the flipside of responsibility. Only a free man can take personal responibility for something.

Freedom of speech includes reponsibilty to speak truthfully and wisely.
Freedom to try things includes responsibilty to deal with our failiures.
Freedom to swing my arms around includes responsibilty not to hit someone.

I think an obsession with freedoms and rights, and ignoring responsibilities is a growing problem in America these days.

[Night]

I beg to differ:

"Dom" isn't from "dumb; it's a suffix that indicates a state---either an actual state (property) or a state of being. That was a joke... s'why I separated it from the rest of it.... Probably should have used a smiley... but I thought it was obvious... Then again I have done similiar in serious aguments.

[JTLauder]

So Freedom is just another word for being a sociopath?
::sigh:: I give up.