Superman/Shazam First Thunder

[protonik]

OMG. Best of the week right here...

Jason

[Kistler]

i just flipped through it. doesn't it put Captain Marvel as having appeared before Flash and right after Batman and Superman? That would make me have to believe that Billy's at least 18 or 19 now rather than 15, if you go by the ten year rule (and personally i prefer to think of it was being 12-15 years since Superman showed up). Seems strange to put him that early in the timeline. Also, i noticed Billy callling someone a "butthead" or something like that and from what I've read of him that seemed really out of character.

Like I said though, I just flipped through it, so please feel free to spoil me and tell me the highs and lows of it. What's the basic gist of the story? how good is this a portrayal of Captain marvel, etc?

[lboinyamouf4sho]

i thought this looked good, and i hate superman.

[Forsaken_One]

The art was nice but the storyline didn't really catch me any. Billy only appeared in like 3 panels and wasn't that interesting and the storyline was... sparse.

Superman realizes there's a spree of robberies at museums (though police don't apparently) and shows up to stop them. They summon a magic thingy, Superman does his line of "I've never been hit that hard" again, and the baddies get away. Repeat in Captain Marvel's down with Captain Marvel except this time Superman shows up to help. End story.

Yeah, sorry but that's not enough to make me shell out more cash to see what happens.

[protonik]

yeah that timeline thing kind of got to me when I thought about cause according to the officicial timeline in Zero Hour, CM appeared just before Legends occured and in POS he is ten or so and according to the 11-12 year rule (most recent timeline to make up for Pres. Lex years) that would make Billy 16. And before the debate even starts with ANYONE, read the books, Billy ages so get off that trip.

Jason

[Samurai]

The art was nice but the storyline didn't really catch me any. Billy only appeared in like 3 panels and wasn't that interesting and the storyline was... sparse.

Superman realizes there's a spree of robberies at museums (though police don't apparently) and shows up to stop them. They summon a magic thingy, Superman does his line of "I've never been hit that hard" again, and the baddies get away. Repeat in Captain Marvel's down with Captain Marvel except this time Superman shows up to help. End story.

Yeah, sorry but that's not enough to make me shell out more cash to see what happens.
I agree... very nice artwork, but the story so far was really blah...

[DWEarhart]

Judd Winnick isn't delivering. His other Superman/Shazam meet was a snorefest.

Someone, please, make sure Judd is at full throttle when writing comics, not working on Juniper Lee, which is a great new toon, BTW, but if one media suffers, it's pure alchemy from there on.

[Dennis K]

I'm kind of still up in the air about this one. On one page I like the artwork, on the next I hate it. I also have a hard time getting past my dislike for Winnick, but Shazam was one of my favorites as a kid so.......

[mohammedali]

The artwork was good, though I'm not a fan of the way the faces were drawn. I liked the colouring though. It really adds to the young feel of the comic. The story of the first issue was just a clear intro for the next few issues. I just hope it picks up a lot quicker in Issue 2. I think they just wanted the meeting between Shazam and Superman to occur right at the end, and had to fill the pages with whatever. I think there should be more comics based before the 2nd coming of Superheroes.

Mohammed Ali

[ExoKnight]

I enjoyed the issue very much. So, this sorta take place during the first year of Captain Marvel. My question is in JSA issues is Billy Batson now a teenager considering that he was having a relationship with the star-spangled kid/stargirl?

[AllisterH]

re: Batson's age

One of the things that people should keep in mind is that Fawcett's city somewhat 40s/50s style is a direct result of the wizard. It was mentioned Pre-Crisis (and I think post-Crisis) that Fawcett city and its inhabitants were slightly out of sync with time thanks to the machinations of Sivana whereupon the wizard's influence prevents the city from being modernized.

Who knows how the hell that affects Billy's age.

[protonik]

It doesn't. IN POS he was 10, in POS the series he as 14 or 15. In JSA he is 16. People always talk about Billy in regards to Shazam but they forget Freddy and Mary. Mary was OBVIOUSLY 6 or 7 in POS and is early teens in her most recent appearances, hardly a little girl but hardly a woman yet. 14 or 15 at the oldest. She may have been younger in POS. Freddy is supposed to be the oldest and he is 16 or 17... maaaaaaybe 18 and considering he had a relationship with Mary ages her.

Jason

[Lex]

I'm not very concerned about how this series effects current continuity. Sometimes a good story is more important than continuity, and First Thunder is a good, fun Captain Marvel story. And it's been too long since we've had a fun Captain Marvel story.

[Cayman]

Great art, so-so story.

About what one might've expected from this team.

Cay

[Darkoth]

tough crowd here.I'm giving it a chance as the artwork is very exciting and fresh.Maybe the story will pick up when we see the heroes together.Billy might seem a little out of character,but he still retains a childlike innocence...a good update,imo.

[davros42]

Mary was OBVIOUSLY 6 or 7 in POS and is early teens in her most recent appearances, hardly a little girl but hardly a woman yet. 14 or 15 at the oldest.

Errrr... isn't she moving in with Fire in the Superbuddies story in JLA: Classified... Seems older than 14 or 15 to me.

Of course, that story is probably not in continuity, strictly speaking.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I generally don't get my panties in a bunch about continuity, but this one just doesn't make any sense. If DC is gonna use this 10 to 13 years ago sliding timeline, that'd make Billy 3 or 4 years old at the most in this story, which he clearly isn't. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to change the time of Captain Marvel's debut to the beginning of the Silver Age, since that makes it extremely difficult to keep Billy a boy, which is the best thing about the character. Meanwhile, there is nothing gained by having Captain Marvel be around for all that time since he didn't even show up in the Pre-Crisis DCU until the mid to late 1970s.

I mean, Wonder Woman can't regain her spot in the original JLA, but Captain Marvel's debut gets pushed back even though it makes him older than he ever should become? That's just silly.

[Mulett]

Can someone explain the sliding-scale timeline thing to me? Is this to do with the timeline DC printed right after Crisis saying how many years ago Superman first appeared etc (without actually putting a date to it)?

I've always kind of thought that for every five years that pass here, only a year passes in comic book land. But that could be wrong.

Also, does this mean - for sure - that Captain Marvel wasn't around during World War II? Pre-Crisis, he appeared in both modern day cross-overs (with Earth-1 heroes) and world war II crossovers (with the JSA etc on Earth-2).

[AllisterH]

The thing to remember about Pre-Crisis Captain Marvel was that he intrinisically could travel between dimensions via the Rock of Eternity

[Mulett]

The thing to remember about Pre-Crisis Captain Marvel was that he intrinisically could travel between dimensions via the Rock of Eternity

It was more the age thing I was questioning - did the rock of enternity send him back in time (to world war II)?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The Shazam characters were created during the forties and published by Fawcett Comics until National Comics sued them out of business during the late forties.

During the seventies, National, now DC, bought up the rights to the Shazam characters and reintroduced them, explaining that the Marvel Family had been trapped in suspended animation since the forties. They existed on their own Earth within DC's Multiverse named Earth-S.

Following the Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Marvel's Golden Age adventures were retconned away, same as Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman. The Post-Crisis Shazam now first appeared shortly before the Crisis began, making Captain Marvel somewhat of an experienced hero, but still keeping his first appearance close enough to the present that Billy Batson can always remain a boy.

The "10 to 13 years ago" timeline means that no matter how many years pass, the debut of Superman & Batman will always be a little more than a decade in the past, thereby allowing them to forever remain in their mid-thirties, but still giving enough wiggle room for characters like Robin and Speedy to grow up and become adult heroes in their early to mid twenties. If you stick Billy Batson at the start of this timeline, you have to age him from that point, which means he also has to be in his mid to late twenties now, just like Dick Grayson and Roy Harper.

[Justin D.]

I could've sworn I saw a recent appearance where Billy, Mary, or someone else said that Billy Batson is 17-years-old. That could mean he's now 18 so I don't see what the problem is. Of course, I also haven't read the issue being discussed so that could have something to do with that.

[Mulett]

The "10 to 13 years ago" timeline means that no matter how many years pass, the debut of Superman & Batman will always be a little more than a decade in the past, thereby allowing them to forever remain in their mid-thirties, but still giving enough wiggle room for characters like Robin and Speedy to grow up and become adult heroes in their early to mid twenties. If you stick Billy Batson at the start of this timeline, you have to age him from that point, which means he also has to be in his mid to late twenties now, just like Dick Grayson and Roy Harper.

Thank you! You make it sound so simple, too.

[protonik]

Errrr... isn't she moving in with Fire in the Superbuddies story in JLA: Classified... Seems older than 14 or 15 to me.

Of course, that story is probably not in continuity, strictly speaking.

Mary Bromfield is Billy's YOUNGER sister... if he is 16-17 then she must be about 14-16. Often portrayed as 14 or younger though as she has an innocence much more acute than even Billy.

Jason

[RawShark]

Here's a theory that "might" explain Billy's eratic aging.
This is pretty much copied directly from the Marvel/Miracle Man timeline.
What if... oops, I meant Elseworlds... Naw, I really mean what if, whenever Capt Marvel is around, Billy's in some "paralel" universe in suspended animation but doesn't age when he's there. Could explain how he wouldn't age as fast as the rest of the DC universe. Of course, this would also mean that he spends a heck of alot of time in suspended animation.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Here's a theory that "might" explain Billy's eratic aging.
This is pretty much copied directly from the Marvel/Miracle Man timeline.
What if... oops, I meant Elseworlds... Naw, I really mean what if, whenever Capt Marvel is around, Billy's in some "paralel" universe in suspended animation but doesn't age when he's there. Could explain how he wouldn't age as fast as the rest of the DC universe. Of course, this would also mean that he spends a heck of alot of time in suspended animation.

I suppose that might be what Winnick is leading up to. Maybe Cap/Billy will be falling into another "Suspenium" trap of Sivana's again like he did in the forties and will spend several years in limbo.

[protonik]

Here's a theory that "might" explain Billy's eratic aging.
This is pretty much copied directly from the Marvel/Miracle Man timeline.
What if... oops, I meant Elseworlds... Naw, I really mean what if, whenever Capt Marvel is around, Billy's in some "paralel" universe in suspended animation but doesn't age when he's there. Could explain how he wouldn't age as fast as the rest of the DC universe. Of course, this would also mean that he spends a heck of alot of time in suspended animation.

That would be the Golden Age version of CM in so many words. It was never explicit but CM and Billy were seperate people in the GA. It is also similar to Captain Marvel/Rick Jones...

Jason

[The Wayner]

Have to admit that this one didn't really grab me, but I'm willing to stick it out. Liked seeing Supes appear towards the end, though. Kinda put a smile on my face after the dull read... :cool:

[DOVETAILS]

Liked the art a ton. I liked the way the story flowed, surprisingly.. I usually can't stand winick's output. Continuity be damned. Let's enjoy this story for what it's worth. In six months it'll just be yet another forgotten mini anyway ;) :rolleyes:

[Selina Quinzel]

It was pretty simple with not much to the plot, but as a first issue I thought it did a great job setting things up and was well-paced. I just have a small, very shallow complaint- it's about Superman's appearance.

He's always mentioned as being very attractive (and always almost always drawn that way) and he just looked... odd in this book. His face seemed lumpy, indistinct and even too 'old' looking, which took me right out of the story until I stared at it a bit. I thought the art was beautiful and it certainly won't keep me from picking up and enjoying the rest of the miniseries, but I honestly hated the way Superman's face was drawn.

[Darkoth]

Anyone more excited after reading the second issue?

[The Wayner]

No.

I flipped through the book at the store and there was no attraction. I dropped it.

Does the story get better, you say?

[Darkoth]

No.

I flipped through the book at the store and there was no attraction. I dropped it.

Does the story get better, you say?

It does for me,seeing Superman and Captain Marvel interact with each other for what would be the first time.They go to Mt. Everest and compare physical stats.A well known villian also appears by book's end.I'm hooked.

[Lex]

This book continues to be a lot of fun. The battle with the trolls was great. Captain Marvel and Superman worked really well together.

Once again, it was fun. And that's the main thing I want in a Captain Marvel comic.

[Joe Rice]

Once again, it was fun. And that's the main thing I want in a Captain Marvel comic.

The nail and the head and the hitting hellllloooooo!!!

[Prelude]

I enjoyed the second issue much more than the first one. I liked the interactions between the characters. Like all encounters between villains, the meeting between Dr. Sivana and Lex Luthor was interesting. I especially liked how fascinated Captain Marvel was with Superman and his physical abilities. Many people in life hold someone in great awe, so it was nice to see a superhero do that to his peer.

Then there's the issue of continuity previous posters have addressed. Before the series I didn't have an ounce of knowledge about Captain Marvel, so any wrong doings Winick did concerning the character flew right past me. I'm not that big on continuity anyway, the most important thing to me is that heros and villains are written in character (which I'll assume is done correctly).

I guess it's good that I can't get my continuity panties riled up, since I don't wear panties. :)

[Lorendiac]

Here's a theory that "might" explain Billy's eratic aging.
This is pretty much copied directly from the Marvel/Miracle Man timeline.
What if... oops, I meant Elseworlds... Naw, I really mean what if, whenever Capt Marvel is around, Billy's in some "paralel" universe in suspended animation but doesn't age when he's there. Could explain how he wouldn't age as fast as the rest of the DC universe. Of course, this would also mean that he spends a heck of alot of time in suspended animation.

I believe that was exactly the way Alan Moore did it in "Miracleman" in the early 1980s - which was originally "Marvelman" in its British publication, as an edgy revival of a character created in the comics of the U.K. in the 1950s as a replacement for Captain Marvel after he was cancelled in the states . . .

Of course, this raises the question - if Billy has only aged about half as fast, say, as he "should have" aged over the last ten years or so, then why haven't any of his peers in Fawcett City noticed anything peculiar yet about his aging? (People who see him regularly but don't know about his double life, that is?)

[protonik]

Book of the Week.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The art is certainly gorgeous and Winnick's Sivana & Luthor are always hillarious, but the writing is still a bit too paint-by-numbers thus far. But, damn, the art is nice.

[i5hawn]

i was astonished by thier interaction...it almost made me upset by the way timm and co. handled the jlu meeting. marvel had that boyish idol thing goin for supes and mr. kent was just in awe of capt. marvel. a great read. middleton's art was excellent very easy to follow. i too knew nothing of marvel outside of the standard info so it was nice to see that sabbac is his counterpart which is reinforced over in outsiders 29 as well.

[Sandy Hausler]

OMG. Best of the week right here...

Jason

You know, although I've enjoyed the Superman/Batman series, it's hard to understand how the two can even be friends, what with Bats being a jerk for the past couple of decades, but I could really go for a regular Superman/Captain Marvel book, based on this series.

Sandy Hausler