Should I start reading New Avengers?

[The Red Hood]

Alright, I'll be honest. The idea behind the New Avengers, i.e., put Marvel's biggest guns in the line-up like the JLA, was kind of intriguing.

But I didn't pick it up because of a)finances and b)the line-up.

I've got a steady job again, so I'm considering picking up a new title. NA is on my short list of new titles.

Here's what I don't like about what I've read/heard about the NA:

1-Spider-Man in a team book. It's like having Wolverine lead Power Pack. It just doesn't fit.

2-Speaking of Wolverine: Wolverine in YAT: Yet Another Team. I mean, really. If he was Jamie Madrox, maybe...

3-Luke Cage? The Sentry? Spider-Woman? None of these are heavy hitters. Though I don't like Spidey and Wolvie in this book, I still at least understand why they're there. Why not this line-up:

Cap
Iron Man
Thor
Spider-Man
Wolverine
Hulk (don't know how...be creative)
Iceman or Storm (just a well-known mutant from X-Men)
Daredevil

This is all I have, and admittedly, it's not that substantial. I guess what I'd like is for someone to tell me why I should pick this book up. What's in it for me? Are my fears/problems unfounded?

Help a comic-loving brother out.

'Hood

[thik_3rd]

most people on here will tell you you should.
i don't like it though.

[StoneGold]

Basically what Thik said. Most people like it. A much smaller minority hates it. Pick up the trade.

[scouse mouse]

If you are not buying it all ready, get the Young Avengers instead. Its quite possibly the best team book published by Marvel at the moment.

[pureclint]

I would go with New Avengers over YA. I think YA is ok but over hyped, and the last issue was average at best for me. Both have had scheduling issues, but the revolving artists on NA has helped it catch up a bit.

1 Spidey works on the team. And why exactly can Batman be on a team and not Spider-man?

2 Bah its comics, Nightcrawler just teleports him or some junk. Really he only stars in Astonishing and New Avengers even though he appears in the other X titles (well not very much in Uncanny). His reqruitment was not great nor his initial appearance (used to pump up Spider-Woman) but seeing him with a new cast of allies should be fun.

3 None are Big time players true. And that whole its Marvel's JLA has been known as hype for a while now. Luke Cage RULES under the pen of Bendis and the Sentry is very interesting so they are a plus. Spider-Woman has been pushed hard but could turn out fine.

Really it has been a decent read, but if I could only buy one mainstream Marvel U title right now I would check out Marvel Team Up.

However, Try the trades see what you like then buy that!

[CyberCoyote]

Another pointing finger at trades. If cash flow is a barometer glance it over at Borders :) I'm not a fan of the whole decompressed storytelling method which is what keeps it off my list. Others dig it.

[Gaz]

Daredevil, btw?
So Spidey's a loner (with so many imitators, partners and sidekick-y characters it's ridiculous, not to menton MTU) but DD's a team player?

[Kirk G]

Daredevil, btw?
So Spidey's a loner (with so many imitators, partners and sidekick-y characters it's ridiculous, not to menton MTU) but DD's a team player?
He never fit well back in Avengers #81 or so in the first volume when he was the guest star in a tale that surrounded the Black Panther, as I recall, and I never felt he fit. Period.
Spidey, on the other hand, has cool banter, and always has. And he's being played for a lot of laughs. :D
Try a look over in Amazing Spiderman and watch Cap's reaction to seeing spidey leap onto an escaping rocket which must be dismantled.
I think we are about to see either 1) Cap come unglued over this, or 2) Cap try to lay down the law to Spidey about taking risks (remember, Spidey has now had to call in the Avengers to save his ass not once, but at least TWICE.. in Breakout, and now in Amazing Spiderman. :eek:
I think this is going to get old, and may be the start of Spidey's departure.)
Plus, there's the thing with Mary Jane having an affair with Tony Stark...and May in bed with Jarvis (I didn't really just say that out loud, did I?). :rolleyes:
So, watch for changes as of the first year expiring.... :rolleyes:

[Harold of the Rocks]

I second the notion that Bendis' writing makes Luke Cage fun and interesting. I never would have thought that I would say that before...

The artwork is excellent. I am more of a fan of Finch than of McNiven, but both are very good at what they do...

Some good intrigue and subplots are developing, and we have several mysteries going on simultaneously. Lots of depth to the story...

The humor is great stuff too, and while usually Spidey and Luke are the most frequent jokesters, every New Avenger (aside from Sentry so far) has had their moments and good one-liners.

Spidey does work in a team. I mean he's made appearances with and fought alongside nearly every hero in the MU. I think the argument that Daredevil doesn't work as well is a better one. I would also refer to the current Amazing Spider-Man arc as an excellent example of how Spidey does work in a team. Yes, he needed help being bailed out, but Pete is also the one who solved the mystery of Hydra's plans, and if he hadn't, the entire U.S. of A. would be 'history'. I don't think the rest of the New Avengers would complain about having to bail him out in order to save the country. I know Bendis didn't write that, but it does illustrate the point that Pete/Spidey can work on a team and has very valuable crime-fighting and investigative skills to bring to the table.

Tony and Steve's history as Avengers also brings an interesting dynamic. They kind of guide the ship, with the others who haven't really had the kind of 'mission' that the Avengers do (Logan being an exception, of course... but he's too much of a wild-card...do you really want this guy directing the goals and missions of the Avengers?).

Can't get enough well-written and drawn Iron Man. And this is the place for that.

By the sounds of it, whoever is drawing this, they are going to be top-notch. Frank Cho for an arc? Return of Finch? Have you seen that cover of Ronin, yet? Holy Cool.

Others that don't like it, I can respect them, totally. Doesn't mean they don't have good taste. But I like the taste of this book. Maybe take the advice of some others, and get (or page through) a trade. Then jump in after the Sentry arc ends if you dig it. ;)

[Shellhead]

Alright, I'll be honest. The idea behind the New Avengers, i.e., put Marvel's biggest guns in the line-up like the JLA, was kind of intriguing.

But I didn't pick it up because of a)finances and b)the line-up.

I've got a steady job again, so I'm considering picking up a new title. NA is on my short list of new titles.

Here's what I don't like about what I've read/heard about the NA:

1-Spider-Man in a team book. It's like having Wolverine lead Power Pack. It just doesn't fit.

2-Speaking of Wolverine: Wolverine in YAT: Yet Another Team. I mean, really. If he was Jamie Madrox, maybe...

3-Luke Cage? The Sentry? Spider-Woman? None of these are heavy hitters. Though I don't like Spidey and Wolvie in this book, I still at least understand why they're there. Why not this line-up:

Cap
Iron Man
Thor
Spider-Man
Wolverine
Hulk (don't know how...be creative)
Iceman or Storm (just a well-known mutant from X-Men)
Daredevil

This is all I have, and admittedly, it's not that substantial. I guess what I'd like is for someone to tell me why I should pick this book up. What's in it for me? Are my fears/problems unfounded?

Help a comic-loving brother out.

'Hood

If these are your reasons for trying New Avengers, you better sit down and think twice about these reasons, because your information is wrong.

1. Marvel fans have been told for decades that Spider-man is not a team player. Oddly, for more than a decade, he starred in Marvel Team-Up, the title where Spider-man teamed up with nearly every hero in the Marvel Universe at that time. Team, team, team.

2. The Wolverine proliferation has been a problem since the early 90's, so we've all had plenty of time to get used to it. One more team isn't going to do any serious additional damage.

3. You are having trouble reconciling a rumor with reality. Rumor: New Avengers will be Marvel's JLA, several powerful and popular charaters. Reality: New Avengers will include a few extremely popular characters, just as many characters who enjoyed only minor success if any, and the only extremely heavy hitter will be an obscure Superman clone.

There are all kinds of reasons to buy or not buy New Avengers, and you should come up with some better ones than the three above. Bottom line, if you like the art, the writing and the characters, you will enjoy New Avengers. Personally, I'm taking a pass on it, but I can understand why others do enjoy it.

[tricksterpup]

but I can understand why others do enjoy it.
your pants are on fire.. ;)

[Shellhead]

your pants are on fire.. ;)

Hey, I said I didn't like New Avengers. But if somebody likes the art, and is a big fan of Bendis, and wants to keep up with the latest adventures of a favorite character, whether it be Spider-Woman or Wolverine, then New Avengers is the right comic for them. I'm sick of Wolverine, unimpressed with the current artwork, and still upset with Bendis for writing Disassembled, so I'm not going to buy New Avengers.

[overcomebyfumes]

Buy the New Avengers trades, but read the Young Avengers every month. Much better book, imho.
.

[The Shadow]

put Marvel's biggest guns in the line-up like the JLA,

3-Luke Cage? The Sentry? Spider-Woman? None of these are heavy hitters.
How can you have a JLA like line up with those you mentioned? Short answer is you can't... and that's part of what makes this team interesting. They aren't a bunch of powerhouses (power wise... not sales wise). As good as Spidey is there are more powerful. Same with Wolverine, Cap and Cage.

What you get is an eclectic mix of characters that have not functioned together on a team ofter (Cage, Spiderwoman, Sentry and Spidey) a new team buys (Cap and Iron Man) and a wild card (Wolverine).

And Spidey and Wolverine work on this book. Spidey has some of the best one liners that aren't forced and Bendis has an affinity for the character.

Sentry is an unknown (though we are finding out about him with the current arc) but if you've not read the mini series I really suggest you grab it. Great story and great art = a great book.

Personally I love NA. I'm an old school Avengers fan... I started buying it semi-regularly in 1984 and became a regular in 1986. I've since tracked down a near complete run of the first series... I'm missing 15 issues... and got a complete run of every Avengers series since (even West Coast and Force Works)... so I know my history and can state I AM A FAN... but I like the complete change... throwing the team out into uncharted waters with non-standard members (even the popular ones) is fun. I've found the Avengers has traditionally been used to feature guys that can't sustain their own monthly like Hawkeye or Vision... but this is a break from that and I'm enjoying it.

A lot.

[pureclint]

Can't get enough well-written and drawn Iron Man. And this is the place for that.


Concur, Tony might be the best written character in the book, Bendis really "gets" him. As we have mentioned he is great with Cage and Spider-man as well.


Sentry is an unknown (though we are finding out about him with the current arc) but if you've not read the mini series I really suggest you grab it. Great story and great art = a great book.


I really like the Sentry he might be a bit to powerful (Go look at the JRJR pages of him handing Terrax his ass with out so much as blinking) but he is very interesting.

His original mini is great and really worth the price.

[Jake V]

No, don't read it. It sucks.

Absolutely nothing like the old Avengers. And that means it's bad.

It has these weird things like actual human drama, naturalistic dialogue, and interesting characters. Everyone knows that Triathalon is 3 TIMES the character that the Sentry is.

Good comics don't have things like that. Everyone knows that the only way a comic can be good is to have the story finish as quickly as possible (preferably one issue), with as little characterization as possible. Everyone knows that the only way a comic can be good is to wrap up every single plot thread almost as soon as it was introduced.

So yeah. Don't read New Avengers. Bring back the old Avengers. I can't get enough of characters like D-Man, Jack-of-Hearts, and Gilgamesh. I love arbitrary bull**** rules and regulations like the Maria Stark Foundation and the Avengers charter. I NEEEED to see superheroes in a mansion eating breakfast in full costume. Because that's what superhero comic books are all about.

[Thrice]

PIck up new avengers. It is awesome. As for some of the people you want on the team. Well thor is dead and with cap and iron man already on the team we dont want the old avengers. Storm only works within the confines of the x-men. Luke cage and spiderwomen are much cooler. The hulk? Stupid. lame. Been done.

[steve2275]

the na arnt that much more powerful than a team of x men
which i dont have a problem with

[The Shadow]

No, don't read it. It sucks.

Absolutely nothing like the old Avengers. And that means it's bad.

It has these weird things like actual human drama, naturalistic dialogue, and interesting characters. Everyone knows that Triathalon is 3 TIMES the character that the Sentry is.

Good comics don't have things like that. Everyone knows that the only way a comic can be good is to have the story finish as quickly as possible (preferably one issue), with as little characterization as possible. Everyone knows that the only way a comic can be good is to wrap up every single plot thread almost as soon as it was introduced.

So yeah. Don't read New Avengers. Bring back the old Avengers. I can't get enough of characters like D-Man, Jack-of-Hearts, and Gilgamesh. I love arbitrary bull**** rules and regulations like the Maria Stark Foundation and the Avengers charter. I NEEEED to see superheroes in a mansion eating breakfast in full costume. Because that's what superhero comic books are all about.
What he said...




only D-MAN ROCKS!!!! :D :p

[Will.S]

Here's what I don't like about what I've read/heard about the NA:

1-Spider-Man in a team book. It's like having Wolverine lead Power Pack. It just doesn't fit.
That's the fun of it. Spider-Man is trying to find his groove as part of Marvel's premeir team. He's used to dealing with villains and threats by himself but as part of a team he's got people backing him, going to him for advice and input, and overall making the mood fun regardless of the situation.

The team as much as it pains me to admit it, is not fully formed yet so he hasn't been able to bounce off of Sentry, Ronin and Wolverine in casual talk or in battle during teamwork. Once the team is fully comprised I think we'll see Spider-Man and the rest grow as a team and work really well together.

2-Speaking of Wolverine: Wolverine in YAT: Yet Another Team. I mean, really. If he was Jamie Madrox, maybe...
Heh, he is on too many teams but looking at it now:

- Astonishing X-Men is over so that run was before HoM which flows into HoM#1 and picks up again after that.

- X-Men seems to be in it's own little bubble of continuity since I didn't see it take part in the event but characters from the title appear in HoM so I'm assuming it's before HoM and concurrent with Astonishing.

- Uncanny X-Men hasn't had a Wolverine appearance since he left to venture off into the Savage Land. I don't think his appearance in Uncanny synchs up with New Avengers since Wolverine leaves for the Savage Land for different reasons in the both titles but there's a vague area there. Uncanny X-Men goes into HoM most likely during the time the Sentry is onboard and before Ronin joins so it seems Wolverine won't be appearing on that team anytime soon especially considering the future lineup.

So while he's been on all 3 X-Teams before HoM he'll be in the Astonishing team and New Avengers for most of the time assuming that he won't be used by Milligan in the near future. Also Wolverine in his own title's continuity happens before New Avengers and alongside Astonishing X-Men.

3-Luke Cage? The Sentry? Spider-Woman? None of these are heavy hitters. Though I don't like Spidey and Wolvie in this book, I still at least understand why they're there. Why not this line-up:

Cap
Iron Man
Thor
Spider-Man
Wolverine
Hulk (don't know how...be creative)
Iceman or Storm (just a well-known mutant from X-Men)
Daredevil
Thor is out of the picture but Sentry is definitely a heavy hitter (I highly recommend the Sentry mini series in Trade Paperback for his whole story). You're right about Cage and Drew, they aren't big name characters but they bring their nuances and experience to the team enough to keep it very interesting and fun. Add to that Spider-Woman is getting HUGE exposure in the future. Alot of my interest in the team is that while they aren't the weakest incarnation of the team, they also aren't the most powerful out of all the Avenger so it's following Avengers rules in that they'll have to work hard for their victory with everything they have at their disposal.

They'll become a better team for it, prove themselves as successor's to the name and also have a reason for being after Disassembled and Breakout. The New Avengers aren't the JLA but that's the charm about the Avengers that I think JLA/Avengers established very well. They do their own thing their own way but it doesn't make them a lessor a team than the JLA just because their powers aren't on that level.

The book also has a number of sub-plots of interest to sustain it for quite a while so the fun never ends. It's among my top reads every month.

[thik_3rd]

No, don't read it. It sucks.

Absolutely nothing like the old Avengers. And that means it's bad.

It has these weird things like actual human drama, naturalistic dialogue, and interesting characters. Everyone knows that Triathalon is 3 TIMES the character that the Sentry is.

Good comics don't have things like that. Everyone knows that the only way a comic can be good is to have the story finish as quickly as possible (preferably one issue), with as little characterization as possible. Everyone knows that the only way a comic can be good is to wrap up every single plot thread almost as soon as it was introduced.

So yeah. Don't read New Avengers. Bring back the old Avengers. I can't get enough of characters like D-Man, Jack-of-Hearts, and Gilgamesh. I love arbitrary bull**** rules and regulations like the Maria Stark Foundation and the Avengers charter. I NEEEED to see superheroes in a mansion eating breakfast in full costume. Because that's what superhero comic books are all about.
thanks, i was thinking about checking out new avengers, but you saved me the time and money.

[The Red Hood]

Let me clear up some things.

When I said "heavy hitter," I didn't mean power levels. I meant popularity. I'd heard before NA was launched that the team would be comprised of those heroes that are now very recognizable to comic book moviegoers: Spidey, Wolverine, other characters from the X-Men, the Hulk, etc. Cap, Iron Man, and Thor, while not recently stars of their own films, are still known fairly well by non-readers.

Also, I know Thor is "dead." That's a huge mistake on Marvel's part and from the looks of the "reboot" they're going to hoist on this fantastic character, they are as lost creatively as they were in the 90s.

I also disagree that Hulk wouldn't work in this line-up. I'd like to see the Avengers cut Banner a break for once and let him become their science advisor along with Tony Stark and Peter Parker. Of course, the Hulk would be used in times of great need for the team.

And Jake V, I don't think your sarcastic rant was necessary at all. I'm all for sound, character-driven change. There were a multitude of flaws with the old Avengers, many of which you touched on. I think the team should be drastically revamped. I had no trouble with the events of "Disassembled."

I've just been on the fence with Spider-Man and Wolverine on the team, and the lack of the other Marvel movie charactes in the line-up. To me, it would be a brilliant way to bring more attention to the comic while also creating a dramatic situation between disparate characters.

At any rate, I may pick up the trade this weekend and if I like what I see, I'll add it to the ol' pull list.

'Hood

[thik_3rd]

There were a multitude of flaws with the old Avengers, many of which you touched on.
like what? i wanna hear you're take on the flaws.

[Jake V]

I be fair, and I hope this was obvious from my joke post, I was giving the standard old-avengers fan's reaction to New Avengers. The old "bring back the old Avengers" whine is still heard every once in a while.

I like New Avengers, it's a well written, well drawn book. It has an interesting, organic cast with many many oppurtunities for unique character interaction. It's written in a naturalistic way by a writer who really "gets" the characters more and more each issue. It has the best-written Spider-Man in ANY book currently. It has some of the best superhero art you can find in any comic book currently.

Fans of the old book will bitch about the new one incessantly. It's fun to pick on the cynical naysayers. That's all I was doing.

*side note* You won't find a standard "trade" of the first arc. It's in a trade-sized hardcover. Retails for around 20 bucks.

[The Red Hood]

Fans of the old book will bitch about the new one incessantly. It's fun to pick on the cynical naysayers. That's all I was doing.

Yes, but do you understand that it sounded you like were inferring that I was such a person? I have always loved the concept of the Avengers, if not the execution. NA looks good, but I wanted to know something about the title before committing to it. I'm not a cynical naysayer, just a cautious and frugal fan who likes to vote his approval with his wallet.


*side note* You won't find a standard "trade" of the first arc. It's in a trade-sized hardcover. Retails for around 20 bucks.

Thanks for that info. That's a bit pricey, but the library at the school I work for orders comic book trades and HCs often. I'll have to request a copy and then check it out before plunking down a month's worth of comics on it.

'Hood

[Ravenheart]

Wouldn't it be better to just pick up a few issues and decide for yourself if you want to continue reading it or not?

[Will.S]

Let me clear up some things.

When I said "heavy hitter," I didn't mean power levels. I meant popularity. I'd heard before NA was launched that the team would be comprised of those heroes that are now very recognizable to comic book moviegoers: Spidey, Wolverine, other characters from the X-Men, the Hulk, etc. Cap, Iron Man, and Thor, while not recently stars of their own films, are still known fairly well by non-readers.
There was certainly some truth to that rumor regarding the recognizable heroes such as Spider-Man and Wolverine tagging alongside staples like Cap and Iron Man. But it isn't a JLA version of the Avengers if that's what you're thinking, it's something different with a good mixture of the obscure and popular.

Also, I know Thor is "dead." That's a huge mistake on Marvel's part and from the looks of the "reboot" they're going to hoist on this fantastic character, they are as lost creatively as they were in the 90s.
I don't think it's a huge mistake, what they are doing is trying to assemble a quality team and story to bring Thor back. I'd rather have that than a rush job and besides, it's great to see a new powerful character like Sentry with the Avengers filling in Thor's role. I sort of call it the new "Big Three" of Cap, Iron Man, and Sentry.

I also disagree that Hulk wouldn't work in this line-up. I'd like to see the Avengers cut Banner a break for once and let him become their science advisor along with Tony Stark and Peter Parker. Of course, the Hulk would be used in times of great need for the team.
The way you described this is essentially the same way that they've used Banner and the Hulk in the Ultimates. Scientist when they need him, bomb when they set him up to go off. As nice as it is to have Hulk on the team for the qualities he brings powerwise and scientifically it would only work if he were the Banner/Professor Hulk which I don't see happening again anytime soon.

[milhouse123321]

New Avengers is currently my fav Marvel book.

[chicorage]

The way you described this is essentially the same way that they've used Banner and the Hulk in the Ultimates. Scientist when they need him, bomb when they set him up to go off. As nice as it is to have Hulk on the team for the qualities he brings powerwise and scientifically it would only work if he were the Banner/Professor Hulk which I don't see happening again anytime soon.

Actually, the current version of the Hulk would work perfectly since Banner and the Hulk have come to terms with each other and change back and forth at will as the situation warrants it. This current incarnation would be a great mix for the Avengers, although I don't see it happening anytime soon with having already three power house characters on the team. But it could still be a possibility depending on what happens with the Sentry.

[Melissa]

Jake and I disagree about New Avengers. His sarcastic attempt at cheapening my viewpoint aside, I don't think it's well written. I don't think it actually has any of that "actual human drama". Can we really point to any so far? I keep hearing from Bendis fans about how well-written it is, and how awesome his writing is, but I just don't see it at all.

This is an important point to make. Contrary to what people like Jake will tell you, actual human drama was being written well before Bendis arrived to save us from comics where heroes saved the world.

I like The Avengers. I don't like New Avengers. I'm fine with Bendis writing a book featuring the League of Marvel Knights and Wolverine (again) for those who like that, I'm just bummed my favourite book had to die so this could take its place.

Pay attention Jake - I just said that you have my permission to enjoy this book. I realise I don't have your permission to have a dissenting view.

Again, let's not confuse this with not liking actual human drama, or new comics. I'm a huge fan of Young Avengers and The Ultimates. I just happen to think New Avengers sucks.

[dingo]

Disclaimer : I love the NA

It is a great book but my one issue with it is the perfect balance of the team.

It really annoys me when I see that the writer has started with a premise and worked backwards to the characters.

Specifically

2 old avengers to keep the fans happy (Cap and Iron Man)

2 sales gold mines (Spider-man and Wolverine)

2 old under-used characters we can promote, probably for future movies (Spider-woman and Luke Cage)

2 new characters that we can squeeze mini-series out of (Sentry and Ronin)

It is just a little too easy to characterise all the members.
Its like when I was ten and realized all the FF had elemental powers, even at that age it bothered me that the characters were originally vessels for the premise. Same here

[Dark Soul # 7]

I don´t buy it, but that´s because I think there´s a conspiracy were Bendis is trying to take over the Marvel company and turn the entire universe into his liking. So I don´t buy anything that is done by Bendis or anything with the word "Ultimate" in the title.

The idea of the book isn´t all bad, reforming the Avengers with a mix of classic heros, some B-listers and two new heros. And I used to be one of the fans who would bitch about Spider-man being a loner, but not anymore. However that is not because of the NA comic. What convinced me was the current New Avengers arc in Amazing Spider-man. It is, IMO, a far better Avengers arc than New Avengers, which I read when I visit my friend who subscribes to that one. Anyway. Spider-man is ready for the big leauges, he´s been ready for a few years, and that means being an Avenger. He brings intelligence that you can add to Iron man, a warning system if they´re ever ambushed and he is the guy that can keep the team down to earth. Unfourtunatly Bendis handles Spider-man very poorly. So far the only thing he´s done is to make jokes and hit the Wrecker across the head with a tricycle, which is the dumbest thing EVER! There´s the same problem with Wolverine and Luke Cage, they do nothing.

Oh and I´m convinced that Bendis will have Ronin beat up one of the team when he first shows up just to show how cool the new ninja guy is. And I think that the unfourtunate victim is either Wolverine or Spider-man.

[chicorage]

I'm confused on why people seem to be accepting the Young Avengers so easily and raving about them, and then hating the New Avengers? I'm not asking this to be an ass I just really want to know (this of course is directed at the old school Avenger readers)?
I've been reading both series from issue #1 and the New Avengers has been a great and interesting read. IMO the YA has been boring and nothing has really happened yet. We've just seen a bunch of kids running around that don't know what their doing.

[The Shadow]

Its like when I was ten and realized all the FF had elemental powers
What elemental power does Reed represent?

[The Shadow]

Spider-Man... hit the Wrecker across the head with a tricycle, which is the dumbest thing EVER!
That would be the return of Jason Todd in Batman

[dingo]

What elemental power does Reed represent?

The flowing liquid nature of ...
Water....the only one left.

[tricksterpup]

I'm confused on why people seem to be accepting the Young Avengers so easily and raving about them, and then hating the New Avengers? I'm not asking this to be an ass I just really want to know (this of course is directed at the old school Avenger readers)?
I've been reading both series from issue #1 and the New Avengers has been a great and interesting read. IMO the YA has been boring and nothing has really happened yet. We've just seen a bunch of kids running around that don't know what their doing.
I do not read both, not my cup of tea. The only Avenger's title I pick up and read is Ultimates.

[thik_3rd]

Jake and I disagree about New Avengers. His sarcastic attempt at cheapening my viewpoint aside, I don't think it's well written. I don't think it actually has any of that "actual human drama". Can we really point to any so far? I keep hearing from Bendis fans about how well-written it is, and how awesome his writing is, but I just don't see it at all.

This is an important point to make. Contrary to what people like Jake will tell you, actual human drama was being written well before Bendis arrived to save us from comics where heroes saved the world.

I like The Avengers. I don't like New Avengers. I'm fine with Bendis writing a book featuring the League of Marvel Knights and Wolverine (again) for those who like that, I'm just bummed my favourite book had to die so this could take its place.

Pay attention Jake - I just said that you have my permission to enjoy this book. I realise I don't have your permission to have a dissenting view.

Again, let's not confuse this with not liking actual human drama, or new comics. I'm a huge fan of Young Avengers and The Ultimates. I just happen to think New Avengers sucks.

X___thik_3rd___

[Elevation]

The book is a good read I really have enjoyed most of it by now. The first story arc was a little boring and slow but it was all to build up the team.

I really dont see the need for htis Ronin guy who is he what can he possibly bring to the team.

[Dark Soul # 7]

The book is a good read I really have enjoyed most of it by now. The first story arc was a little boring and slow but it was all to build up the team.

I really dont see the need for htis Ronin guy who is he what can he possibly bring to the team. Well he can bring the fact that he´s a ninja to the team. Everybody loves ninjas.

[Archer]

I've never been into the Avengers, never much liked any of the old characters and of the current lineup I only have interest in Spidey and Iron Man, and I think a lot of what Bendis writes is over-rated, but I finally caved and (shock horror) downloaded some issues to see what it was like.

Well, I loved it.

My main reason for wanting to read it was the Sentry/Void - I know nothing about him but I love darkness/shadow based characters, but I found myself actually enjoying the plots, the characters, the dialogue, the pacing. I'm not so sold on the art, but totally sold on the comic as a whole.

I'll be buying the first trade on my next trip to the comic shop, definitely.

[Gaz]

I'm confused on why people seem to be accepting the Young Avengers so easily and raving about them, and then hating the New Avengers? I'm not asking this to be an ass I just really want to know (this of course is directed at the old school Avenger readers)?
I've been reading both series from issue #1 and the New Avengers has been a great and interesting read. IMO the YA has been boring and nothing has really happened yet. We've just seen a bunch of kids running around that don't know what their doing.
And this week's "has totally missed the point" prize goes to... :p
The reason we see that is because they ARE kids who are just getting started!
And they can pull together to beat Kang, so that shows they have potential if they can keep going.
The little character moments and dialogue are the real selling points though. They feel like teen fanboys, the younger kid you hang out with because her dad's cool, and the rich one that annoys you but you talk to because she can get you cool stuff (plus she's hot and fun, not that you'd ever SAY that to her, because you're a guy, and don't show emotion. :p )

[Shellhead]

I'm confused on why people seem to be accepting the Young Avengers so easily and raving about them, and then hating the New Avengers? I'm not asking this to be an ass I just really want to know (this of course is directed at the old school Avenger readers)?
I've been reading both series from issue #1 and the New Avengers has been a great and interesting read. IMO the YA has been boring and nothing has really happened yet. We've just seen a bunch of kids running around that don't know what their doing.

It's easy to accept Young Avengers, because they are new charaters written by a fresh new writer with a distinctive voice.

It's easy to hate New Avengers, because a popular team was humiliated and then sacrificed in a poorly written storyline, just to set the foundation for this new team. Putting Marvel's two most popular characters on this team would be more tolerable if it actually made sense for both of these characters to be on the team. The next time I read a comic where Wolverine brags about being a loner, I'm going to tear out the pages and use them for toilet paper.

[Elevation]

Well he can bring the fact that he´s a ninja to the team. Everybody loves ninjas.

ok big deal Wolverine is the samuri remember thats why Iron Man wanted him on the team. And he said besides him the Sentry was the final piece to the team..... so hwo needs htis Ronin character

[Dark Soul # 7]

ok big deal Wolverine is the samuri remember thats why Iron Man wanted him on the team. And he said besides him the Sentry was the final piece to the team..... so hwo needs htis Ronin character
I was being sarcastic. :rolleyes:
Besides why does a team that has the supposedly all-powerfull Sentry as a member need anybody besides the Sentry?

[Gaz]

Jake and I disagree about New Avengers. His sarcastic attempt at cheapening my viewpoint aside, I don't think it's well written. I don't think it actually has any of that "actual human drama". Can we really point to any so far? I keep hearing from Bendis fans about how well-written it is, and how awesome his writing is, but I just don't see it at all.

This is an important point to make. Contrary to what people like Jake will tell you, actual human drama was being written well before Bendis arrived to save us from comics where heroes saved the world.

I like The Avengers. I don't like New Avengers. I'm fine with Bendis writing a book featuring the League of Marvel Knights and Wolverine (again) for those who like that, I'm just bummed my favourite book had to die so this could take its place.

Pay attention Jake - I just said that you have my permission to enjoy this book. I realise I don't have your permission to have a dissenting view.

Again, let's not confuse this with not liking actual human drama, or new comics. I'm a huge fan of Young Avengers and The Ultimates. I just happen to think New Avengers sucks.

What about Geoff Johns or Chuck Austen's runs on Avengers, is it worse than that?
We can have your permission to like this version, but it's not the Avengers because you SAY it's not? It's automatically bad taste because it's different from other versions (none of which said "must read" to me, like JLA does for DC, not that I read that either)?
Let's go through the checklist, shall we?
2 of the Big 3 (and Thor's gone, so that's the best he can do)? Check.
Cool B-listers? Check.
New member from other part of the MU? (Spidey, just like Beast or Captain Britain or any of the FF)Check.
Original character writer created to try new thing? Check.
What's the problem, besides BMB's writing, which is subjective, as some people here may have hated Busiek's version, or Stan's, or any of the 60's/70's sexism (what did Wanda and Jan do besides be vain and delicate)?

[Will.S]

Actually, the current version of the Hulk would work perfectly since Banner and the Hulk have come to terms with each other and change back and forth at will as the situation warrants it. This current incarnation would be a great mix for the Avengers, although I don't see it happening anytime soon with having already three power house characters on the team. But it could still be a possibility depending on what happens with the Sentry.
Even so, the dude is just too unstable to stay on there for long.

It would be interesting to see if they could ever make it work though.

[thik_3rd]

What about Geoff Johns or Chuck Austen's runs on Avengers, is it worse than that?

of course it's worse than both of theirs. they each had at least decent runs. worse than johns? WORSE than johns? johns's run is one of the all time best in avengers' history.

[Tobias March]

Pym's 'Fantastic Voyage' aside....


Oh come on, you didn't think anyone would run with that did you? ;)

[tricksterpup]

I actually liked Austin's run over New Avengers. Sorry, for what happens in the book, nothing seems to happen.

[Gaz]

of course it's worse than both of theirs. they each had at least decent runs. worse than johns? WORSE than johns? johns's run is one of the all time best in avengers' history.
They were the worst two that sprang to mind. And Austen butchered Captain Britain, with his UKagent version.
I also heard that Johns was mediocre at best. (Subjective yes, but that was what I was trying for, one man's gold is another's garbage and all that)

[thik_3rd]

They were the worst two that sprang to mind. And Austen butchered Captain Britain, with his UKagent version.
I also heard that Johns was mediocre at best. (Subjective yes, but that was what I was trying for, one man's gold is another's garbage and all that)
heard but haven't read? i put johns's run above busiek's.

[Gaz]

heard but haven't read? i put johns's run above busiek's.
Beyond the Avalon story, and the odd Busiek issue, I never read it until now.
You'd rather I didn't get something I like because YOU don't like it? That reasoning is what confuses me.

[thik_3rd]

You'd rather I didn't get something I like because YOU don't like it? That reasoning is what confuses me.
i don't recall saying that.

[Melissa]

<snip>...but it's not the Avengers because you SAY it's not? <snip>

Actually mate, it's not The Avengers because THEY say it's not. Look, it's right there on the front of the book:
The Avengers (one book)
The New Avengers (another book - they even gave you a big fat hint with the #1 on it)

Look, missing the point. I said go ahead and love it. You absolutely have the right to enjoy the book, and no - the world doesn't have to work the way I want it to. My point was entirely that Jake's belittling of my point of view does not negate my right to hold it.

[kcekada]

I was ready to drop it from my pull list -- would probably keep buying it for now, but I didn't want my shop to reserve a copy for me.

However, the current issue surprised me. I'm not even that interested in Sentry (I bought his first series -- and though that should have been it for him), but the story was one of the stronger in the series.

If Bendis can get over his cutesy comments and ridiculous scenarios (the Avengers naked), this could be a decent series.

[kcekada]

Oh, I know why people say it's not Avengers (and I agree).

The Avengers had its own feel before the book was rebooted. For years, it was like a continuing soap opera. Some charactes would leave and come back, but it was still something with which you were familiar.

Now, it's like all of the characters have been let go and replaced with new ones. While you may enjoy the stories, you miss your favorite characters.

Also, the Avengers were a very publicly celebrated team of heroes. The New Avengers are more similar to a black ops group.

[Tobias March]

What's wrong with naked Avengers? :p

When did the title become Peyton Place anyway?

[Shellhead]

Oh, I know why people say it's not Avengers (and I agree).

The Avengers had its own feel before the book was rebooted. For years, it was like a continuing soap opera. Some charactes would leave and come back, but it was still something with which you were familiar.

Now, it's like all of the characters have been let go and replaced with new ones. While you may enjoy the stories, you miss your favorite characters.

Also, the Avengers were a very publicly celebrated team of heroes. The New Avengers are more similar to a black ops group.

It's hard for me to understand why the classic Avengers got the boot. When there is a good writer/artist team on the book, it sells well. When you put Chuck Austen on it, not so well. But really, look at how many Avengers spin-off titles there are right now: New Avengers, Young Avengers, Ultimates, and Thunderbolts. None of these titles would have existed without the grand tradition of the classic Avengers.

[StoneGold]

It's hard for me to understand why the classic Avengers got the boot. When there is a good writer/artist team on the book, it sells well. When you put Chuck Austen on it, not so well. But really, look at how many Avengers spin-off titles there are right now: New Avengers, Young Avengers, Ultimates, and Thunderbolts. None of these titles would have existed without the grand tradition of the classic Avengers.
Tbolts would. If it wasn't the Masters of Evil, it could have been various incarnations of the Frightful Four and work just as well. Or the Deadly Foes of Spider-Man. Which like half of them are, now.

[Trystenn]

Hey kinda OT but........
Is it just me or does Spider-Woman have a Huge @$$?

[Gaz]

Hey kinda OT but........
Is it just me or does Spider-Woman have a Huge @$$?
I believe it's prominent but well proportioned.
(Besides, Cho's drawing her soon, and every girl he draws has a D cup and bubble butt)

[Trystenn]

I believe it's prominent but well proportioned.
(Besides, Cho's drawing her soon, and every girl he draws has a D cup and bubble butt)
Well then Cho is my new best friend.
And wow i didnt know Spider-woman was so....Spiderliscious,

[Gaz]

Well then Cho is my new best friend.
And wow i didnt know Spider-woman was so....Spiderliscious,
Well, she's always been pretty, but Bendis crushed on her as a kid, so he makes extra sure she's drawn HAWT. :D

[Trystenn]

Well, she's always been pretty, but Bendis crushed on her as a kid, so he makes extra sure she's drawn HAWT. :D
Well then wow, all those looking up shots, shes my new fave.