It's more than just black and white, people.

[Justin Davis]

Ok, the more I think about this, the angrier I get. Also, since there seem to be so many threads on similar topics and I didn't feel like reposting this 10 times, I figured I'd start up a new thread just so I can say this. It may be something others can't or won't accept.

The more I hear about the "poor black people" and how others are acting towards them with racist bias, the more pissed off I get. It seems the media, some celebrities, and some political officials tend to jump to rallying for the "poor black people" whenever possible. I hope that those two female black senators, whose names I can't recall right now, that are part of the Congressional Black Caucus have not been chosen to speak on behalf of them. Because Kanye West is famous now, many are going to take what he says as truth without much more thought. These actions will only help perpetuate the sole plight of the "poor black people". Why does this all piss me off so much?

There's a large Vietnamese population living in New Orleans? Have you heard anything about them? I haven't.

The Coast is also known for having a high Hispanic population. Have you heard anything about them? I haven't.

Besides gambling, what is one of the biggest jobs to the Mississippi and Louisiana Coast that we're known for? Shrimping. Who owns and works on many of those shrimping boats? Vietnamese and Korean people. Have you heard anything about them? I haven't.

A few weeks ago, Kristina and I were lucky enough to visit New Orleans one last time with her brother and some friends. For breakfast one morning, we ate at a great Greek and Lebanese restaurant with an attached grocery store. It was in a community of similar people. Have you heard anything about them? I haven't.

Also, in defense of George Bush, I do not think he's acting with any racial bias at all. Just look at who he's appointed since he's been in office. It's not possible to have a token Attorny General of the US. It may be possible that he's a good ol' boy from the Deep South of Texas and still has friends and co-workers who are not white. If you don't think so, then that's your racial issue to deal with and no one else's.

Seriously, open your damn eyes, people. The world is not just black and white. Talk of tragedies should not always devolve into such discussions. If anything, the catastrophe of Hurricane Katrina might have spotlighted the definite distinction in classes. More people should worry about the class favoritism. Race may be built into that, but that doesn't make it about race.

Besides, Mississippi and the other places affected by the storm are not generally rich communities, white or otherwise.

This is more than just about tuning people out when they start talking about the "poor black people" or racism against black people. This is also about informing people of something they should already know. Correct those who misspeak about the conditions and leave out whole populations. If you don't agree with the preceding statments, then I have some jobs for you.

Tell some of the children who I taught for the last couple of years that came from families that were not well-off or black that they aren't affected as much as black people.

Tell a vietnamese store owner in New Orleans or Biloxi who is digging through the rubble that used to be his place of business or home that he's lucky he's not a black person.

Tell my friend in Jackson, MS that his grandfather, who is stil MIA in New Orleans, is receiving preferential treatment because he's white.

There's more and less to the events surrounding us. We just need to know how to distinguish them.

[Michael P]

Hell, as George Carlin points out, it's not *really* black and white. It's pink and brown.

Narf.

[Jared_Humpherys]

Thank you, Justin. Good topic, and good thoughts.

[Bard]

Ya know Justin, if it wouldn't offend you, I'd give a great big hug for so eloquently and powerfully saying what I have been unable to put into words!

Now if we can only get the rest of the people to wrap their heads around the truth. . . they're be a lot less bickering about a bad situation.

[Ayo]

Because this is America. And in America, the black/white racial tension has been one of the most shaping conflicts of all time, and for all time.


Other races are important...but this is a deeply ingrained cultural struggle for both sides (I don't mean "black and white," I mean "racist and nonracist"). All peoples and cultures are significant...but I mean...this is America...blacks were enslaved for centuries. That's not something that goes away, ever.



Ever.



People really do need to let it sink in that genocide doesn't ever become a thing of the past--it stays with a culture for all time. So yes, race relations in America are broken down primarily along black/white lines.




And before anybody points out, I haven't forgotten the American Indians--it's just that honestly, we don't get to see or hear from them as a group very often--unless you live near a community, most of the Native Americans a person who's not one are likely to meet will appear to be members of another culture.


But the reason for it all definately has to do with the systematic genocide.

[Tom]

Certainly I can understand your anger Justin, and the time will come for more stories to be told about all the losses, but unfortunately, right now the big story is about a crisis situation and the people in the middle of that crisis are both predominately black and victims of government indifference.

[Bard]

Let me remind you, Ayo, that the Native Americans were killed in droves, not enslaved for their land . . . at least here in Florida. We have every right to be angry, but it will not bring back our ancestors or serve any purpose. So saying the black-white issue is the only major defining problem historically in the USA is a very weak argument. Why the American Indian population is counted low, even now on the US Census, in accordance with other minorities is due to the disease and mass genocide done to us over the centuries. Even my own mother as a young girl would deny her ethnic background for fear of getting hurt or beat up like her great-grandfather and some of his tribal members.

[Justin Davis]

Certainly I can understand your anger Justin, and the time will come for more stories to be told about all the losses, but unfortunately, right now the big story is about a crisis situation and the people in the middle of that crisis are both predominately black and victims of government indifference.

I understand it's a big story. Part of my anger comes from the legitimacy of this as a big story. At least, in reference to it being solely about black people. Government indifference is definitely a deservedly big story.

Also, Bard, I wouldn't be offended by a hug at all.

[west3man]

1) Saying something largely affects Blacks isn't the same as saying it JUST affects Blacks.
2) When I see a white child's disappearance making NATIONAL NEWS, I get pissed because, until very recently, I'd NEVER seen a Black child's disappearance generate anywhere near such publicity. That doesn't mean I don't give a damn that there are many Portugese-American children missing.
3) Yes, some people are too quick to yell "racism!" There are also a ton of people who are waaay too quick to yell "NOT racism!"

[Justin Davis]

1) Saying something largely affects Blacks isn't the same as saying it JUST affects Blacks.
2) When I see a white child's disappearance making NATIONAL NEWS, I get pissed because, until very recently, I'd NEVER seen a Black child's disappearance generate anywhere near such publicity. That doesn't mean I don't give a damn that there are many Portugese-American children missing.
3) Yes, some people are too quick to yell "racism!" There are also a ton of people who are waaay too quick to yell "NOT racism!"

Statments 1) and 3) are sadly linked. The fact that a large majority of the people in New Orleans affected is black does not automatically denote racism and I've seen that claim made from more than one source.

Also, the second point annoys me to no end too. In fact, the fact that just white women, usually blond white women, gets reported on is something that Kristina, my friends, and I have all argued or complained about at one point or another. There are women and men of all different types that are murdered or kidnapped with little to no attention paid to them. We should not be day on 95 or whatever day it is of the Holloway girl's case. I'm sorry for their loss, but come back to us when there some new relevant information if necessary or wanted. I was actually quite surprised to see the recent story of a man who disappeared on a cruise ship. White or not, male disappearances are not often talked about.

I tried to find some statistics about kidnapping, but could only find some for Colorado (http://cbi.state.co.us/dr/cic2k4/supplemental_reports/dvkidnapping.htm) and Minnesota. Minnesota's information is similar to Colorado's. If this holds true for the general consensus of the country, then white females are anywhere between 10 to 20 times more likely to be kidnapped than other people. I did not know that until just now and it could help shine a light as to why they get talked about more than others. In the same way that there are more black people in need with Hurricane Katrina, the population of those affected is simply higher. It doesn't explain why outlets such as FOX and CNN report on one case on a daily basis for up to three months though. Investigative journalism is one thing, obsessive and exploitive journalism is a whole other thing.

[Bard]

I'd NEVER seen a Black child's disappearance generate anywhere near such publicity.

Have you already forgotten Rilya Wilson? http://www.knightridder.com/about/greatstories/miami/rilya1.html

[tangentman]

Justin, I wholeheartedly agree with the need to expand understanding of Race as an issue encompassing more than merely "black/white" populations. Where I'm currently living, the understanding of race is slowly growing to understand the Asian and Latino populations moving into the area. I work for a state organization, and having bilingual employees is very much a need with which we can't function. One of my friends gained her teaching job because she was fluent in Vietnamese.

People are learning, Justin, and we'll need that cultural awareness with Latinos replacing blacks as the largest minority in the U.S. Unfortunately, the very problem that you cite is a cultural one. In the South, the dialogue about race usually boils down to black/white, for various reasons pointed out by others in the thread. Is that the reality of race? NO. Is that the perception of the race issue? Probably so.

Hopefully, this will change with more attention being given to the diversity of race in the South. At the rate we're going, though, I don't know if that change will be a fast one.

[west3man]

Have you already forgotten Rilya Wilson? http://www.knightridder.com/about/greatstories/miami/rilya1.html
Just before the part of the sentence that you quoted, I said, "until very recently". That included the last few years.

That's the only example I remember in my entire life. Justin's statistics carry some weight, but I've seen a number of national reports about missing white children. That's a strong contrast.

Btw, I don't remember names too well, so the example you gave may or may not be the one I'm thinking of.

[Fabian]

I know all too well about what you're ranting about Justin. I've tried to say that there is more to black and white but they haven't listened

[Dee3]

Thank you



for giving a voice to some of the things that I have thought for years.
None of this should be about race it's about humanity. Sometimes I get so tired about hearing about the poor blacks all the time. It's annoying they completly forget what Martin Luther King stood for that we all should all stand together as the human race we are all equel.

So many people that are not black are affected by this horrible event so let's not forget them.

dee

[west3man]

I know all too well about what you're ranting about Justin. I've tried to say that there is more to black and white but they haven't listened You raised a good point, one that some listened to, including me.
Thank you
Sometimes I get so tired about hearing about the poor blacks all the time. It's annoying they completly forget what Martin Luther King stood for that we all should all stand together as the human race we are all equel.
. . .

[Fabian]

You raised a good point, one that some listened to, including me.

. . .
Ok some listened, but the majority didn't since I kept seeing more threads about people complaining about the number of black characters in a medium.

[Dee3]

I heard it.

[Alex]

I think the problem from, what you are adressing, comes from one thing.
It isn't being looked at simply as a crisis that has affected human lives, its been turned into a political issue that is being used too show how group x have hosed black people.
I've seen some white people on the tele in lines for clothing or food, but all the stories about the people being affected are being infected by this racial element. Much like you, i haven't heard anything about the vietnamese or any other race as a whole, but i don't really want too. I don't want to hear this story and how the hurricane relief was lessened because mostly black people were affected, id much rather hear about how an entire city, with a variety of people who's race doesn't even factor in have lost homes, jobs, and family members. Whats being done to help them, and what's gone wrong in that help, not conspiracy theories about why they weren't helped.
Black, white, vietnamese, russian, whatever, everyone there who was affected was affected none the less, and it does no good to play games in comparing which race was hurt the most.

[Bard]

Black, white, vietnamese, russian, whatever, everyone there who was affected was affected none the less, and it does no good to play games in comparing which race was hurt the most.

Very true, but how do you propose to stop those who want to keep the demon in the ointment as to dreg up strife by whining about who's been hurt and mistreated the most?

Let's face it, over the history of time, there have been gross injustices that have been perpetuated by one group of people arguing that another group has mistreated them. Just look at the Israelis and the Palestinians. They’ve been at each others' throats since Isaac and Ishmael. Do races here in the USA want to leave the same kind of epitaph?

I sincerely hope not.

[Nate C.]

I live in Mississippi. (as does Justin.)

Mississippi is 46% black.

America is 12% black.

I think it's safe to say that Justin (and I) know a little something about the black/white problem in America.

I live, work, eat, go to church with (shocking, isn't it?) and everything else, with, for, and beside black people.

Last night I was talking about the N.O. problem with a black co-worker. You wanna know why he thought Bush left those people down there?

Go on, guess.

I'll wait right here.

Okay, I'll tell you. "Because they were black".

We had a nice hour long discussion (working the whole time, mind you) and he finally understood my perspective.

Sometimes bad things happen to people.

And sometimes those people happen to be black.

Is Bush racist?

Nope.

He's just *blanking* incompetent.

[west3man]

Ok some listened, but the majority didn't since I kept seeing more threads about people complaining about the number of black characters in a medium.
Maybe I'm misremembering or misunderstanding, then. I didn't think you were referring to people's displeasure with things like under- or misrepresentation of minorities in the media.

I thought you were referring to statements you made about how people say "black or white as if that's all there is."

Nevermind. Sorry for the confusion.

[west3man]

Black, white, vietnamese, russian, whatever, everyone there who was affected was affected none the less, That sounds like convenient phrasing. Good for effect and emphasis, but do you know that one group isn't being affected more than the others?

No offense-inteneded, btw. I'm sure someone will say or think I'm taking this too literally, but that's why I phrased it the way that I did. If you meant it as-stated, that's important because the argument comes down to whether any groups are disproportionately affected... and why.

I don't want to hear that this or that group is being mistreated either... but I'd rather hear it if it's true or to know why the perception is there.

[west3man]

Not everyone who questions Bush's motives 1) does so without reasons or 2) articulates those reasons as well as they might like.

One of the reasons is that we've seen Bush act more quickly and without as much apparent regard for paper-work and formalities... when he felt strongly enough about something.

His track record matters, although it may or may not suggest what some may think.

[Alex]

That sounds like convenient phrasing. Good for effect and emphasis, but do you know that one group isn't being affected more than the others?

No offense-inteneded, btw. I'm sure someone will say or think I'm taking this too literally, but that's why I phrased it the way that I did. If you meant it as-stated, that's important because the argument comes down to whether any groups are disproportionately affected... and why.

I don't want to hear that this or that group is being mistreated either... but I'd rather hear it if it's true or to know why the perception is there.
The hurricane didn't target one group more then others, when this happened in florida (Not as serious mind you, because it wasn't in a place that was likely to flood and stay flooded) im assuming some towns with a majority of white people were affected, and im sure some didn't have places to stay. But i didn't hear anything about how the white people were hurt the most. And if they were, it wouldn't have mattered, because the core of the issue is the same no matter what race is involved.
If Black people are more effected, why does it matter? Isn't it enough that people in general, american citizens, were hurt?
Do black people need special doctors or special food, special clothing or special medicine to be helped? Do black diabetics have a different kind of insulin then the kind i use?
Do we need to spend special all black national guard regiments to help only the black people, and then spend special vietnamese ones to help the vietnamese, since their racial group was less affected?
Is houston only accepting white people from New Orleans and turning away the black familes?
No, thats my point, race doesn't change the fact that it is, simply, people who are hurt in this.
And while people bicker about who was affected the most, and why they were, we are ignoring that people still need help, and no matter what the shade of their skin is, they need the same kind of help. Were more black people hurt in this event, yes. Why were more hurt? Because more black people lived in the affected area, thats as simple as it gets.
Why did it take so long to get supplies and relief? Because the city was flooded on all sides but one, because looters were getting violent with aid workers who did get in, because there was no organization after the disastor.
How, in any way, does suggesting racism help this situation at this point? Theres currently no proof of it, so its all pot stirring, and th epople affected, already incredibly frustrated no matter what their race, are going to be impacted by this if they can even get wind of it. And how does it help a suffering people, or those trying to give them aid, by trying to instill anger in them?

[Justin Davis]

The hurricane didn't target one group more then others, when this happened in florida (Not as serious mind you, because it wasn't in a place that was likely to flood and stay flooded) im assuming some towns with a majority of white people were affected, and im sure some didn't have places to stay. But i didn't hear anything about how the white people were hurt the most. And if they were, it wouldn't have mattered, because the core of the issue is the same no matter what race is involved.
If Black people are more effected, why does it matter? Isn't it enough that people in general, american citizens, were hurt?
Do black people need special doctors or special food, special clothing or special medicine to be helped? Do black diabetics have a different kind of insulin then the kind i use?
Do we need to spend special all black national guard regiments to help only the black people, and then spend special vietnamese ones to help the vietnamese, since their racial group was less affected?
Is houston only accepting white people from New Orleans and turning away the black familes?
No, thats my point, race doesn't change the fact that it is, simply, people who are hurt in this.
And while people bicker about who was affected the most, and why they were, we are ignoring that people still need help, and no matter what the shade of their skin is, they need the same kind of help. Were more black people hurt in this event, yes. Why were more hurt? Because more black people lived in the affected area, thats as simple as it gets.

. . .

How, in any way, does suggesting racism help this situation at this point? Theres currently no proof of it, so its all pot stirring, and th epople affected, already incredibly frustrated no matter what their race, are going to be impacted by this if they can even get wind of it. And how does it help a suffering people, or those trying to give them aid, by trying to instill anger in them?

For this part, I'm glad to call you friend. Seriously. I even made Kristina come into the room to read what you wrote. What you say is as straightforward as it gets even if your grammar and punctuation sucks while saying it.

Why did it take so long to get supplies and relief? Because the city was flooded on all sides but one, because looters were getting violent with aid workers who did get in, because there was no organization after the disastor.


Now that part, I don't agree with except for the disorganization of it all. New Orleans has been one of the most corrupt cities for a long time. More could've been done. However, I believe that even if the mayor or someone else sent buses into communities before the storm hit to help people evacuate, that about 80 percent or more of the people currently there still would've stayed. A friend of Kristina's said she just left her laptop on her desk because she thought they'd be back soon to pick it up. It's a matter of complacency. Many simply thought the storm wouldn't hit them.

[west3man]

The hurricane didn't target one group more then others, when this happened in florida (Not as serious mind you, because it wasn't in a place that was likely to flood and stay flooded) im assuming some towns with a majority of white people were affected, and im sure some didn't have places to stay. But i didn't hear anything about how the white people were hurt the most. And if they were, it wouldn't have mattered, because the core of the issue is the same no matter what race is involved.
If Black people are more effected, why does it matter? Isn't it enough that people in general, american citizens, were hurt?
Do black people need special doctors or special food, special clothing or special medicine to be helped? Do black diabetics have a different kind of insulin then the kind i use?
Do we need to spend special all black national guard regiments to help only the black people, and then spend special vietnamese ones to help the vietnamese, since their racial group was less affected?
Is houston only accepting white people from New Orleans and turning away the black familes?
No, thats my point, race doesn't change the fact that it is, simply, people who are hurt in this.
And while people bicker about who was affected the most, and why they were, we are ignoring that people still need help, and no matter what the shade of their skin is, they need the same kind of help. Were more black people hurt in this event, yes. Why were more hurt? Because more black people lived in the affected area, thats as simple as it gets.
Why did it take so long to get supplies and relief? Because the city was flooded on all sides but one, because looters were getting violent with aid workers who did get in, because there was no organization after the disastor.
How, in any way, does suggesting racism help this situation at this point? Theres currently no proof of it, so its all pot stirring, and th epople affected, already incredibly frustrated no matter what their race, are going to be impacted by this if they can even get wind of it. And how does it help a suffering people, or those trying to give them aid, by trying to instill anger in them?
I thought you were objecting to people claiming Bush's actions or inaction affected Black people disproportionately. Above, it seems that you're just talking about the hurricane.

There's a lot in your post to address. I think I'll focus on this:

"How, in any way, does suggesting racism help this situation at this point? Theres currently no proof of it, so its all pot stirring, and th epople affected, already incredibly frustrated no matter what their race, are going to be impacted by this if they can even get wind of it. "

One of the problems with this is that the affected people are some of the people MAKING the claims.

"And how does it help a suffering people, or those trying to give them aid, by trying to instill anger in them?"

This assumes that is the intent of pointing out unfair treatment and its motivations.

You also said something about complaining about these things instead of helping people. I don't think the people doing the complaining are the ones with the ability, but not the willingness to help.

[west3man]

Many simply thought the storm wouldn't hit them.
I've heard of someone staying because her home made it through previous powerful hurricanes. She thought it would make it through this situation, as well.

There are about as many reasons for people to have stayed as there are people who made that choice.

[Grant]

When I was looking at some footage at work there was some hispanic guys traveling together in a van. Not sure why none of this stuff aired. But I know there is footage of them. I saw some Asian people when Bush met with civilians in Biloxi. But nothing in New Orleans.

As insensitive as this might sound we probably don't hear much about them because a good chunk of them don't speak English.