Original Cat (Greer) question

[Jerry W. Loper]

Seeing Greer mop up the floor with at least 17 skilled HTH vigilantes in her miniseries a couple of years ago made me wonder: What other Marvel street levellers are in the same league in HTH skill with original Greer Nelson, the Cat (yellow & blue costume), before she got the fur?

[thik_3rd]

iron fist, shang chi. actually they're well above her league.

[Jerry W. Loper]

iron fist, shang chi. actually they're well above her league.

Danny and Shang have been studying martial arts since they were kids (Shang since the age of 4), so yeah, they'd have accumulated more MA knowledge than Greer. Personally I estimated Greer's HTH skill back in the Cat days to be in the league of Mockingbird, Silver Sable, and maybe Black Widow (I think Greer would've been superior in HTH to Felicia the Black Cat); was just asking for others' opinions.

[The Defenestrator]

Honestly, it all depends on how much her next writer loves her. Just look at characters like the Black Panther, treated like jokes for years. When a talented writer like Priest got a hold of Panther, he restored Panther's intellect and fighting skill, while other writers had put the guy up as a goofus dude or background dressing.

I really liked Greer Nelson and I sincerely hope they can find a good writer for her.

[The Shadow]

What about Captain America, Daredevil and Elektra?

[Jerry W. Loper]

What about Captain America, Daredevil and Elektra?

Though I'm a big Greer fan, I've gotta admit those are the cream of the street leveller crop in HTH skill; they are to street levellers what the Hulk and Thor are to superstrong bricks. If street levellers had 2 tiers, Cap, DD, and Elektra would be at the top of the 1st tier and I'm afraid Greer would be somewhere in the 2nd. (Just tryin' to be honest.) :o

[kcekada]

Through training and Dr. Tumolo's treatments (not sure what they were exactly) Greer was able to reach her ultimate potential. In many ways, she became more of a female Captain America than a female Spider-Man (to whom she was compared). She had superior strength, agility and speed, but not meta-human levels. Although Steve Rogers had meta-human strength at one time, he current abilities are not meta-human, but are the peak of human ability.

Greer had some other abilities that would put her above women who only had Olympic-level training like the Black Cat and Mockingbird. Probably the most important (and underrated) ability was empathy. This allowed her to sense weaknesses in other beings, but I don't think it was really even demonstrated except for her origin.

[kcekada]

Just to clarify, while Greer was pretty much the female equivalent of Captain America in regards to strength, she probably had more speed and agility.

On the other hand, she didn't have his fighting skills. Most of her fighting skills probably come from her time with the Avengers. Before that, she just relied on her wits and abilities.

As Tigra, she was actually closer to Spider-Man in strength, so fighting skills weren't as needed.

[Sandy Hausler]

While we're talking about the Cat, I always found the origin of Free Spirit to be remarkably similiar to that of the Cat. Anyone else agree?

Sandy Hausler

[Jerry W. Loper]

Just to clarify, while Greer was pretty much the female equivalent of Captain America in regards to strength, she probably had more speed and agility.

On the other hand, she didn't have his fighting skills. Most of her fighting skills probably come from her time with the Avengers. Before that, she just relied on her wits and abilities.

As Tigra, she was actually closer to Spider-Man in strength, so fighting skills weren't as needed.

Wow, even I didn't know that Greer was that formidable before fur, though I knew that Dr. Tumolo gave her training! (Another result of the training, which seems to be forgotten, is that Greer acquired a photographic memory; she was shown reading a whole book and being able to remember it all, word-for-word.) The person you described, if you added the Tigra physical stats to her and if she got respect, would be a terror.

[Taskmaster]

Honestly, it all depends on how much her next writer loves her. Just look at characters like the Black Panther, treated like jokes for years. When a talented writer like Priest got a hold of Panther, he restored Panther's intellect and fighting skill, while other writers had put the guy up as a goofus dude or background dressing.

I really liked Greer Nelson and I sincerely hope they can find a good writer for her.

Yup and it only took Hudlin less then ten issues to try and flush all of that down the toilet. Sorry, g-d I hate Huddlin's BP

Wow reading all this makes me wish Tigra remembered She had these skills because she might make a formadble fighter in the MU if she accessed all these skills

[jadegiant77]

God, I love Tigra! That WCA issue that showed her origin and that of the Cat People was one of my favorite books as a kid! Gotta buy that one back! So can Greer switch forms? I heard she has acat head medallion that lets her do that. Really lame idea: CAT FORCE! Let's bring together alla Marvel's kittys: Tigra, Black Cat, Black Panther... :D

[Jerry W. Loper]

God, I love Tigra! That WCA issue that showed her origin and that of the Cat People was one of my favorite books as a kid! Gotta buy that one back! So can Greer switch forms? I heard she has acat head medallion that lets her do that. Reall ylame idea: CAT FORCE! Let's bring together alla Marvel's kittys: Tigra, Black Cat, Black Panther... :D

.....gone back and forth on what the cat-head medallion does to Greer. In her origin story in Giant-Size Creatures #1 where she co-starred with Werewolf by Night, the medallion actually switched Greer from a human to a were-tiger and back a couple of times, once at the beginning of the issue when she was fighting some Hydra agents, and at the end, when she switched from furry to human to discourage the Werewolf, who was attracted to her furry form. (After that second change, she mentioned something about thinking she'd never be able to switch to human again.) Then in the 1980's, in the Avengers West Coast mini-series (not the ongoing series), she used the medallion again, but I think it was mentioned that it was only an optical or holographic illusion and that even when looking human, she was still really furry. Then just a couple of years ago, in the Christina Z & Mike Deodato mini-series, the medallion was back to REALLY switching Greer from human to were-cat and back.

[crystalline green]

God, I love Tigra! That WCA issue that showed her origin and that of the Cat People was one of my favorite books as a kid! Gotta buy that one back! So can Greer switch forms? I heard she has acat head medallion that lets her do that. Reall ylame idea: CAT FORCE! Let's bring together alla Marvel's kittys: Tigra, Black Cat, Black Panther... :D

Here here! And don't forget Hellcat (who inherited Greer's original cat costume). I've always had a softspot for Marvel's cat themed heroes. I was a huge fan of Tigra's WCA origin story back in the day too.

[Sandy Hausler]

Here here! And don't forget Hellcat (who inherited Greer's original cat costume). I've always had a softspot for Marvel's cat themed heroes. I was a huge fan of Tigra's WCA origin story back in the day too.

It isn't Greer's costume. Note that it has no claw mark on the chest.

Sandy Hausler

[jadegiant77]

Well she wears it well... :D Wish Marvel would do something with these characters...WCA, anyone? That book was friggin' awesome. On another note,why is it that Tigra originally had no tail but now does?

[crystalline green]

It isn't Greer's costume. Note that it has no claw mark on the chest.

Sandy Hausler

Claw Mark or no its the same costume with the original's performance enhancing properties. It is mentioned in most of Hellcat's bio's including the OHOTMU (http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/h/hellcat.htm).

[Sandy Hausler]

Claw Mark or no its the same costume with the original's performance enhancing properties. It is mentioned in most of Hellcat's bio's including the OHOTMU (http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/h/hellcat.htm).

I have to disagree. Greer's costume had the Clawmark on its (her?) chest. Since Hellcat's does not, Patsy's costume is not the same costume. Similar, but not the same one.

Also, Greer's powers did not come from the costume to the best of my recollection. It was from Dr. Tumolo's treatment. The costume was created for the other woman getting the treatment, the one who was a pawn of the financial backer for the treatment. Greer stole one of the spares. The only power that I recall the original costume having was that the financier had installed a collar in his woman's costume, which put her under his control.

It's possible I'm forgetting something from the 70s, since I don't have the book handy, but I don't think so.

Sandy Hausler

[crystalline green]

I have to disagree. Greer's costume had the Clawmark on its (her?) chest. Since Hellcat's does not, Patsy's costume is not the same costume. Similar, but not the same one.

Also, Greer's powers did not come from the costume to the best of my recollection. It was from Dr. Tumolo's treatment. The costume was created for the other woman getting the treatment, the one who was a pawn of the financial backer for the treatment. Greer stole one of the spares. The only power that I recall the original costume having was that the financier had installed a collar in his woman's costume, which put her under his control.

It's possible I'm forgetting something from the 70s, since I don't have the book handy, but I don't think so.

Sandy Hausler

Methinks you are forgetting a lot. Greer did undergo treatment that helped her reach her peak human potential, but the cat costume was designed to enhance her abilities. And my point wasn't that it was the exact same costume, but that it came from the exact same source. Donalbaine experimental catsuits. The only detail that is different between the two costumes is the claw mark on the chest. Every other detail - the mask...the yellow and blue color scheme, the clawed gloves and boots and the sash remain the same. As the official bio says:

"Walker discovered the strength-amplifying costume worn by Greer Nelson in her identity as the Cat. (The man who financed the creation of the Cat, Mai Donalbain, was a former employee at Brand. His property, including the prototype Cat-suits, was later confiscated by the Brand Corporation.) Putting the costume on, Walker dubbed herself Hellcat and used her natural athletic abilities to help the Avengers."

No offense, but I trust Marvels memory more than I do yours, but naturally it's your perogative to believe whatever you want to believe. :)

[kcekada]

Sorry Crystalline, but I have to back up Sandy.

You can't believe everything you read in a Marvel handbook or story. Some people just don't do the research -- or elect to neglect certain details.

In Hellcat's origin, the Avengers discover what they believe is the original Cat's costume. They don't know for certain that it is her costume. It simply couldn't have been the same costume, because Greer's was virtually destroyed before she became Tigra. It's possible that Patsy's costume was someone's attempt to emulate the original Cat -- or it could have been a prototype.

Greer's costume did NOT amplify her strength and speed, but Patsy's did. Greer's costume amplified her night vision and had the cable claw. I don't know if Patsy's original mask had amplified vision abiliities. During her time with the Defenders, she got a new mask that did not have the cat eye lenses.

An issue of the Rampaging Hulk disclosed that Patsy's costume had circuitry that amped her natural abilities. Greer's strength and speed were inate-- the result of Dr. Tumolo's treatments.

Patsy's first Hellcat costume was destroyed in Defenders 50. After that, whatever abilities Patsy had were all her. An issue of Defenders mentioned that the training on Titan with Moondragon is what made her a decent -- if not notable fighter.

[tangentman]

Consider the place where Patsy found the costume--the warehouse of a leading weapons-developer at the time. Brand was a company that used nifty devices like high-tech tanks, blaster rifles, and a device that could disintegrate humans with the flip of a switch. I'm not surprised that they would possess a rare copy of the Cat costume.

Donalbain wanted to mass-produce them, and had numerous criminal dealings. He killed himself before his plan could see fruition. Attributing the costume's presence as the result of a side-acquistion by Brand wouldn't be a tremendous leap of logic.

As to the Cat's powers, she possessed enhanced agility, speed, empathy, and strength. Her strength was nowhere near Tigra levels, but it enabled her to defeat grown men and hold her own with the Man-Bull. Her leaping ability was also increased as a result of Tumulo's treatment. I also wish that Englehart and other writers had touched on Greer's increased memory recall, but I gather that the nature of the Tigra spirit focused more on instinct than intellect. Probably a trade-off for the superhuman strength, speed, and claws.

Patsy did indeed gain increased physical abilities from the Cat-suit. She went from being a decent athlete to Olympic-level material in less than an hour after donning it. The Englehart story also seemed to imply that Patsy's attitude and bearing changed with the costume. She went from being "a rumpled housewife in a borrowed costume" to a feral fighting machine. MAJOR confidence boost from the costume, as compared with Patsy's ineptness prior to putting on the suit. Hellcat was fast enough to dodge superhuman opponents like Amphibian and even dodged the super-fast Hyperion for a short time. The cat-claw cable also left during Patsy's Defenders run, but had returned in her guest-shots in West Coast Avengers.

[crystalline green]

Sorry Crystalline, but I have to back up Sandy.

You can't believe everything you read in a Marvel handbook or story. Some people just don't do the research -- or elect to neglect certain details.




I guess the only way to be sure is for someone who has them to drag out the old issues of the cat and the Avengers. Again, as a point of clarification, there were more than one cat costume produced by Donaldbain (a number of women, in fact, wore them as many of the test subjects who preceded Greer died). I remember clearly from reading the original issues myself, way back when, that Greer had innate abilities thanks to the experiments (just as you and Sandy assert) -- I was never disputing that. But it is established canon that the costumes also had performance enhancing properties. The quote from the OHOTMU is from one of the earlier versions of it, if not the original, so I've no reason to doubt its accuracy, particularly on the subject of a characters history (as opposed to the vagueries of their powers). The bios, I have found, (including the original Official Handbook) support what I remember as I've been a huge fan of both characters from day one. But again, I don't have a huge attachment to being "right" in this instance. You are both free to draw whatever conclusions you want to. I'm just passing along the data I've come across on the characters.

[crystalline green]

Consider the place where Patsy found the costume--the warehouse of a leading weapons-developer at the time. Brand was a company that used nifty devices like high-tech tanks, blaster rifles, and a device that could disintegrate humans with the flip of a switch. I'm not surprised that they would possess a rare copy of the Cat costume.

Donalbain wanted to mass-produce them, and had numerous criminal dealings. He killed himself before his plan could see fruition. Attributing the costume's presence as the result of a side-acquistion by Brand wouldn't be a tremendous leap of logic.

As to the Cat's powers, she possessed enhanced agility, speed, empathy, and strength. Her strength was nowhere near Tigra levels, but it enabled her to defeat grown men and hold her own with the Man-Bull. Her leaping ability was also increased as a result of Tumulo's treatment. I also wish that Englehart and other writers had touched on Greer's increased memory recall, but I gather that the nature of the Tigra spirit focused more on instinct than intellect. Probably a trade-off for the superhuman strength, speed, and claws.

Patsy did indeed gain increased physical abilities from the Cat-suit. She went from being a decent athlete to Olympic-level material in less than an hour after donning it. The Englehart story also seemed to imply that Patsy's attitude and bearing changed with the costume. She went from being "a rumpled housewife in a borrowed costume" to a feral fighting machine. MAJOR confidence boost from the costume, as compared with Patsy's ineptness prior to putting on the suit. Hellcat was fast enough to dodge superhuman opponents like Amphibian and even dodged the super-fast Hyperion for a short time. The cat-claw cable also left during Patsy's Defenders run, but had returned in her guest-shots in West Coast Avengers.

*Nods* This matches what I remember too. I also wish that more focus had been given on Greer's mental and intuitive enhancements by later writers. It would have given more layers to her character.

[JKCarrier]

In the original CAT series, there is no mention of the costume enhancing the wearer's abilities (aside from the night-vision lenses and the grappling hook gizmo in the claws). The strength and agility come strictly from Dr. Tumolo's treatments and training regimen.

The stuff about the costume giving people powers is a retcon, introduced during Patsy's appearances in either AVENGERS or DEFENDERS (I think it's the latter, but I don't have them handy to check). I assume they came up with it to explain how Patsy went from ordinary housewife to Olympic-level gymnast overnight.

[Sandy Hausler]

Sorry Crystalline, but I have to back up Sandy.

You can't believe everything you read in a Marvel handbook or story. Some people just don't do the research -- or elect to neglect certain details.

In Hellcat's origin, the Avengers discover what they believe is the original Cat's costume. They don't know for certain that it is her costume. It simply couldn't have been the same costume, because Greer's was virtually destroyed before she became Tigra. It's possible that Patsy's costume was someone's attempt to emulate the original Cat -- or it could have been a prototype.

Greer's costume did NOT amplify her strength and speed, but Patsy's did. Greer's costume amplified her night vision and had the cable claw. I don't know if Patsy's original mask had amplified vision abiliities. During her time with the Defenders, she got a new mask that did not have the cat eye lenses.

An issue of the Rampaging Hulk disclosed that Patsy's costume had circuitry that amped her natural abilities. Greer's strength and speed were inate-- the result of Dr. Tumolo's treatments.

Patsy's first Hellcat costume was destroyed in Defenders 50. After that, whatever abilities Patsy had were all her. An issue of Defenders mentioned that the training on Titan with Moondragon is what made her a decent -- if not notable fighter.

Thanks for the support. I don't have a photographic memory, but I did read Cat #1 when it came out. I seem to recall Greer finding a bunch of the Cat costumes after she found out the financier was evil. She took one and put it on (without the mind controlling collar). Before that, she did not have a costume and the costume had nothing to do with her powers.

Sandy Hausler

[Sharcque]

While we're talking about the Cat, I always found the origin of Free Spirit to be remarkably similiar to that of the Cat. Anyone else agree?

Sandy Hausler

Free Spirit!!!!! She was one character that I liked but everyone else hated! But what was that tool's name that was kinda her partner --- the guy who dressed in red, white & blue....anyone? Jack something-or-other.....

[kcekada]

I guess the only way to be sure is for someone who has them to drag out the old issues of the cat and the Avengers. Again, as a point of clarification, there were more than one cat costume produced by Donaldbain (a number of women, in fact, wore them as many of the test subjects who preceded Greer died).

Yes, there were multiple costumes as Donalbain had planned on creating an army of super-powered Cat women. However, only one other woman besides Greer wore the costume. Donalbain forced Dr. Tumolo to use her as a test subject. However, Greer volunteered to go under the same testing. Donalbain's subject didn't follow the regimen as closely as Greer...and paid for it with her life when testing the cable claw. Of course, she was also under the control of the collar -- which probably didn't help matters.

Greer grabbed a costume during a fire. The rest were supposedly destroyed, but it's possible one survived. I don't think anyone at Marvel cares enough to explain why Patsy's costume had different properties than Greers or why it was missing the logo. As a previous poster said, it was a retcon to explain Patsy's powers.

In retrospect, it's very strange that a costume with those abilities was just lying on top of a crate in storage.

[Sandy Hausler]

Free Spirit!!!!! She was one character that I liked but everyone else hated! But what was that tool's name that was kinda her partner --- the guy who dressed in red, white & blue....anyone? Jack something-or-other.....

Jack Flag.

Sandy Hausler

[DDM]

Rereading The Cat #1-3, Greer Nelson had several costumes; therefore, it's possible for Patsy Walker to have one of Greer's Cat costumes after Greer Nelson became Tigra.

[kcekada]

Rereading The Cat #1-3, Greer Nelson had several costumes; therefore, it's possible for Patsy Walker to have one of Greer's Cat costumes after Greer Nelson became Tigra.

Huh?!

It's possible that the costume may have looked different under different artists, but the costume was basically the same throughout her series (The Cat 1-4) and her appearance in Marvel Team-Up.

A new costume was planned for a future issue (possibly 5). I found a few of those pages online. The new costume wasn't an improvement, but it would suggest that the powers did not come from the clothing.

Oh, and I just remembered Donalbain's test subject who died testing the costume. It was Shirley. She was a bit of a ditz.

[Rik Levins]

http://www.riverwalk.netfirms.com/IMAGES/cat_1.jpg

http://www.riverwalk.netfirms.com/IMAGES/cat_2.jpg

[Sandy Hausler]

Just as I remembered it! Can't see from that page whether Shirley's costume has the claw mark, but I assume it does. And the page also makes clear that the Cat's power came from the treatment, not the costume.

Sandy Hausler

[Jerry W. Loper]

http://www.riverwalk.netfirms.com/IMAGES/cat_1.jpg

http://www.riverwalk.netfirms.com/IMAGES/cat_2.jpg

Sigh! I don't have those Cat issues, though I have the Marvel Chillers issues and have tried to collect Tigra's major stuff, although there are gaps. (I have not tried to collect every single thing she's been in.) I wouldn't be surprised if young readers who are only familiar with the dumbed-down 1980's-1990's Tigra, if they saw this page with this brunette and didn't know the connection, would think the brunette could beat Tigra. ;)

[kcekada]

The Marvel Chillers Tigra is so much better than the 80s-90s version. Guess we can blame Jim Shooter for that. West Coast Avengers redeemed her a bit.

The Tigra mini-series didn't have a great story, but it did show that Greer was a force even without the Tigra powers.

I saw the Cat story reprinted in the late 1970s in a TPB called The Super Hero Women--featured all Marvel chicks -- Black Widow, Red Sonja, Medusa, Sif/Hela, the Femizons, Shanna and the Cat. The story was so good that I hunted down all four of the original issues.

The first issue was really a good start to the series -- nice concept. However, the follow up issues weren't near as interesting. The first issue also has the best art. Wally Wood's inks on Marie Severin's pencils are outstanding. Mooney inked Severin on issue 2 to decent effect. Issue 3 had a lame story and good art by Paty (Cockrum), but issue 4 is to be avoided -- lame story and some of the worst art I've ever seen by Starlin and Weiss.

The Tigra stories in Marvel Chillers are well written and illustrated for the most part. The original artist (can't recall his name at the moment) was very talented. I think Byrne may have illustrated an issue -- but I'm not certain.

[Sandy Hausler]

The Tigra stories in Marvel Chillers are well written and illustrated for the most part. The original artist (can't recall his name at the moment) was very talented. I think Byrne may have illustrated an issue -- but I'm not certain.

Wasn't the art by Will Migneot of DNAgents fame?

Sandy Hausler

[DDM]

What issues of Marvel Chillers did Tigra appear? Is this a comic book or magazine size book?

[Sandy Hausler]

What issues of Marvel Chillers did Tigra appear? Is this a comic book or magazine size book?

It was a comic book.

And I believe she appeared in Marvel Chillers 3-7. If anyone knows different, don't be shy about contradicting.<g>

Sandy Hausler

[Jerry W. Loper]

It was a comic book.

And I believe she appeared in Marvel Chillers 3-7. If anyone knows different, don't be shy about contradicting.<g>

Sandy Hausler

Yep, Marvel Chillers #3-7 were the Tigra issues, appearing in 1974 or 1975. (The #1-2 issues were Mordred the Mystic.) But these issues were NOT the very first appearance of Tigra. She very first appeared as a guest star of Werewolf by Night in a comic titled Giant Size Creatures #1. The artist, Don Perlin, drew her downright weird. I know Tigra's a character whose look can change quite a bit from artist to artist, but the Perlin look was totally different from ALL the others; maybe somebody can provide a scan. :D

[kcekada]

I have the origin issue of Tigra from GS Creatures, but it's in storage along with most of my collection. If I recall correctly, her ears were much more evident then.

Sandy is correct, the DNAgents creator (Will Meugniot) was the artists for the first two issues of Marvel Chillers featuring Tigra (3 and 4). I think he went on to work in the field of animation.

Tigra faced some pretty impressive foes in the MC series including Kraven (whom she later faced in Marvel Team-Up) and even the Super-Skrull.

[DDM]

It was a comic book.

And I believe she appeared in Marvel Chillers 3-7. If anyone knows different, don't be shy about contradicting.<g>

Sandy Hausler

Thanks Sandy. I found Marvel Chillers #3,5-7 in my local comic book store...

[kcekada]

Thanks Sandy. I found Marvel Chillers #3,5-7 in my local comic book store...

Impressive store. I live in a small town, and am lucky to find anything pre 80s in the stores -- let alone something as obscure as Marvel Chillers.

[Jerry W. Loper]

On the subject of obscure comic issues, anybody read Tigra's black and white story "The Serenity Stealers," in Monsters Unleashed? IIRC, the writer was Chris Claremont and the artist was Tony DeZuniga.

[Sandy Hausler]

On the subject of obscure comic issues, anybody read Tigra's black and white story "The Serenity Stealers," in Monsters Unleashed? IIRC, the writer was Chris Claremont and the artist was Tony DeZuniga.

Really. That may be the only Tigra story that I have not read. I'll have to look for that at the next local convention.

Sandy Hausler

[DDM]

Impressive store. I live in a small town, and am lucky to find anything pre 80s in the stores -- let alone something as obscure as Marvel Chillers.

My local comic book store has an impressive backissue selection. Usually, I find what I want most of the time with no problem. For the books I cannot find, I buy from Mile High Comics.

My local comic book store has everything from the 50's-current in back issues.

[tangentman]

The Tigra who appeared in "Marvel Chillers" was superior to the over-sexed ditz who appeared in Avengers and WCA. Her stories were much darker than those more familiar to Avengers fans. I liked the brooding narratives from Greer and the situations she faced which showed the unsavory side of humanity. Christina Z's story was true to the spirit of the older Tigra stories, and I wouldn't mind a follow-up to the mini.

[DDM]

The Tigra who appeared in "Marvel Chillers" was superior to the over-sexed ditz who appeared in Avengers and WCA. Her stories were much darker than those more familiar to Avengers fans. I liked the brooding narratives from Greer and the situations she faced which showed the unsavory side of humanity. Christina Z's story was true to the spirit of the older Tigra stories, and I wouldn't mind a follow-up to the mini.

Tigra would have made a good character to play off Moondragon, Beast, Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers) along with Wasp, Iron Man, Thor, & Captain America in The Avengers.

[kcekada]

Christina Z's story was true to the spirit of the older Tigra stories, and I wouldn't mind a follow-up to the mini.

Agreed.

Although the story wasn't brilliant, it did take Tigra back to her roots. I'd love to see Greer show up as a cop in Spider-Man, Daredevil or Avengers.

Nice art by Deodato also. For some reason, he and Spider-Man aren't a good match. His Tigra series was awesome. Was the series ever collected?

[Sandy Hausler]

Agreed.

Although the story wasn't brilliant, it did take Tigra back to her roots. I'd love to see Greer show up as a cop in Spider-Man, Daredevil or Avengers.

Nice art by Deodato also. For some reason, he and Spider-Man aren't a good match. His Tigra series was awesome. Was the series ever collected?

Well, her roots are in Chicago, a fact that was forgotten in the limited series.

Sandy Hausler

[kcekada]

Well, her roots are in Chicago, a fact that was forgotten in the limited series.

Didn't mean literally. I think most Cat/Tigra fans recognized the inconsistencies in that mini-series.

Still, the writer recognized that Greer had skills (and a life) before she became Tigra.

[Darci]

Sorry Crystalline, but I have to back up Sandy.

You can't believe everything you read in a Marvel handbook or story. Some people just don't do the research -- or elect to neglect certain details.

SNIP

An issue of the Rampaging Hulk disclosed that Patsy's costume had circuitry that amped her natural abilities. Greer's strength and speed were inate-- the result of Dr. Tumolo's treatments.



That same Tigra entry also states that Greer thwarted Donalbain's plans and sent him to jail. If you read the story, Donalbain put his pistol to his head and pulled the trigger when he found he had only one bullet left and the Cat was after him. Greer managed to escape the burning building, but Donalbain didn't. See also Marvel Team-Up #125 where Tigra has an encounter with his hulking henchman, Zabo. I use this as another example of the Handbook being incorrect.
BTW, which issue of Rampaging Hulk was that?
Thanks,
Darci

[Darci]

Sorry Crystalline, but I have to back up Sandy.

You can't believe everything you read in a Marvel handbook or story. Some people just don't do the research -- or elect to neglect certain details.

SNIP

An issue of the Rampaging Hulk disclosed that Patsy's costume had circuitry that amped her natural abilities. Greer's strength and speed were inate-- the result of Dr. Tumolo's treatments.



That same Tigra entry also states that Greer thwarted Donalbain's plans and sent him to jail. If you read the story, Donalbain put his pistol to his head and pulled the trigger when he found he had only one bullet left and the Cat was after him. Greer managed to escape the burning building, but Donalbain didn't. See also Marvel Team-Up #125 where Tigra has an encounter with his hulking henchman, Zabo. I use this as another example of the Handbook being incorrect.
BTW, which issue of Rampaging Hulk was that?
Thanks,
Darci

[kcekada]

Don't recall which issue that was. I bought it exclusively for the featurette on the Ladies in the Hulk's life. There is a nice illustration of Hellcat in there. I'll have to dig it out of storage and scan the image.

Also included were Valkyrie (white costume), Jarella, Bereet, Harpy and possibly Red Guardian.

[chrismileslord]

Honestly, it all depends on how much her next writer loves her. Just look at characters like the Black Panther, treated like jokes for years. When a talented writer like Priest got a hold of Panther, he restored Panther's intellect and fighting skill, while other writers had put the guy up as a goofus dude or background dressing.

I really liked Greer Nelson and I sincerely hope they can find a good writer for her.

Amen....BP is now awesome. Now back to the original topic.

[Darci]

In another topic, "Time for a new Tigra ongoing?" started by Homosensual,

12-31-2006, 01:57 PM

I could see her going in two different directions.

First, and probably better, would be something that followed her life on the police force. To me, it would be interesting if the basic approach were "It's a police comic with a superhero in it," rather than "it's a superhero comic with police in it."

Base some storylines on weird police anecdotes, like the time NYPD Emergency Services was called to get a fat woman out of a bathtub, next issue it's security at a convention of gods at the Javitz Center. Sometimes she helps out at the Bronx Zoo with the big cats.

Second would be to take her back to her horror roots. From West Coast Avengers and What If? we already know that the first Tigra was created around 1350 as a weapon against human mages: how do modern mages feel about Tigra being back?

I seconded John. I thought seeing how some modern-day mages reacted to their nemesis's return would be an interesting mini-series for Tigra. I might as well mention that Chris disagreed:

04-19-2007, 09:47 AM

Just no. It would just be bad.