The Beatles vs. The Grateful Dead: which is the quinessential 1960s band?

[Buried Alien]

The Beatles and the Dead. Two bands whose very names evoke images of the 1960s. Which of the two bands, however, truly epitomizes and embodies that time period? This is not a comparison of which band was more influential on future musicians, more commercially successful, more popular, more long-standing, or that you like more, but which one represented the Sixties more.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Pepsigirl]

I don't think you can really pick which one better personifies the sixties, since they both portray different aspects of it. The Beatles are the mod band, and The Grateful Dead are the hippie band, two completely differen things.

[ghostrider666]

Neither. The Beach Boys.

[Buried Alien]

Neither. The Beach Boys.

No, not the Beach Boys. The Beach Boys represented a geographical location and its associated way of life (Southern California hot rods and bikinis beach culture) rather than a specific time period. Although they were formed and achieved their greatest success during the 1960s, the Beach Boys don't really evoke that decade as a whole in the same way that the Beatles and the Dead do.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Dennis K]

The Beatles or The Grateful Dead. Are you kidding me? With all due respect the Dead really don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with the Beatles on any level. If you wanted to pick a band/artist that represented the counter-culture the best I'd go with Jefferson Airplane before I'd say The Dead.

[Shellhead]

The Beatles owned the 60's. The Grateful Dead were pretty small time back then. When I saw the Dead in concert in '84 in Indianapolis, there were only a couple of thousand people at the show. A few years later, after their big comeback album, they sold out a large outdoor venue there.

[Ilash]

I'm not the first to say this but while the Dead represented a part (a vital and important part but a part nonetheless) of the sixties, the Beatles represented the whole of the sixties so to me there just isn't really much competition.

[Adam Crocker]

I don't think you can really pick which one better personifies the sixties, since they both portray different aspects of it. The Beatles are the mod band, and The Grateful Dead are the hippie band, two completely differen things.

I'd say they were more THE 60s British invasion than the Mod band. The mod movement was only one subculture within the British rock scene of the 60s (though Mod started in the late 50s). Many Mods did listen to the Beatles, but as far as I know the Beatles (much like the Stones) were ever considered to be a Mod band to begin with as the Who and the Small Faces were. (Nor were their fashion styles actually mod even if there was some similarities.)

Otherwise, I can't say that the Beatles were a completely different group than the Dead. When they moved right out of straight guitar pop and into experimentating with other musical idea in Rubber Soul, that led them become one of the leading lights for psychedelia and the counter culture of the latter half of the 60s.

Granted they were never tied to it quite in the way the Dead (or Pink Floyd, or Hendrix) were, and to my knowledge nor were they as actively involved in it. However, given the Beatles' eclecticism it is hard to say they were completely different from the Dead as they touched some of the same ground as the Dead for a good part of their career. (Even if their approach to psychedelia was fairly different.)

Which is why I regard the Beatles as the quinessential 60s band. GYou could probably use their career to trace a rough arc of the progression of 60s rock'n'roll from mere teenaged dancing music in '63, to psychedelic experimentation in the latter part of the mid 60s, and back to its roots in the late 60s, though with a more mature outlook.

(And I emphasize the rough part. Psych really didn't die down completely when the Basement Tapes helped to trigger the roots revival and none of that accounts for Prog, though I suppose you could consider the Beatles' psychedelic work as one of the big foundation stones for it.)

[d00m]

I'm not the first to say this but while the Dead represented a part (a vital and important part but a part nonetheless) of the sixties, the Beatles represented the whole of the sixties so to me there just isn't really much competition.

I agree with this

[leonaozaki]

I voted for the Beatles but this is a seriously loaded question.

How can the Grateful Dead represent the 60's when they only released their first record in 1967?

Jefferson Airplane is a good choice, but even then you're still assuming the only two choices are the British Invasion pop of the Beatles or the hippie psychedelia of the Dead/Airplane/Haight-era bands.

Are those the only two choices?

Why aren't our choices the British Invasion pop of the Beatles or the blues-rock of the Stones?

Still, a better American equivalent/comparison with the Beatles is, of course, Buffalo Springfield...but then the Springfield squashes the Beatles like a grape.

rob

[Adam Crocker]

Still, a better American equivalent/comparison with the Beatles is, of course, Buffalo Springfield...but then the Springfield squashes the Beatles like a grape.


?

Elaborate please.

[leonaozaki]

?

Elaborate please.

Back when the Springfield came out they got hyped as the American Beatles. I just like the Springfield more than the Beatles, is all.

rob

[ghostrider666]

No, not the Beach Boys. The Beach Boys represented a geographical location and its associated way of life (Southern California hot rods and bikinis beach culture) rather than a specific time period. Although they were formed and achieved their greatest success during the 1960s, the Beach Boys don't really evoke that decade as a whole in the same way that the Beatles and the Dead do.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

And how can you say which band represented an entire decade? How is the decade of the 60's remembered? Disgruntled soldiers in Viet Nam with a Doors soundtrack playing in the background? Is it young guys street racing their cars listening to Wolfman Jack spin "Yummy yummy yummy" on their AM radio? To say that the Beach Boys (who the Beatles always tried to reach the success of, even after they had) do not represent an entire decade, but the Grateful Dead do, is just ignorant.

[howyadoin]

Quintessential 60s band?

The Doors.

[StarsAndGarters]

Out of those, the Beatles hands down.

I still say Cream was the peak of the 60s.

[Dennis K]

I still say Cream was the peak of the 60s.


Oh please. You can take the best/your favorite eleven Cream tracks, and they're not even in the same league as far as blues rock brilliance as the debut album from The Paul Butterfield Blues Band.

[Adam Crocker]

How can the Grateful Dead represent the 60's when they only released their first record in 1967?

Can't chime on much in regards to the other questions, but we have to consider that while the hippy movement only came about around '66 and carried over somewhat into the early 70s, it is inextricably associated with the sixties and as such its hard not to think of psychedelia when thinking of that decade.

And how can you say which band represented an entire decade? How is the decade of the 60's remembered? Disgruntled soldiers in Viet Nam with a Doors soundtrack playing in the background? Is it young guys street racing their cars listening to Wolfman Jack spin "Yummy yummy yummy" on their AM radio? To say that the Beach Boys (who the Beatles always tried to reach the success of, even after they had) do not represent an entire decade, but the Grateful Dead do, is just ignorant.

Perhaps, though the Dead being one of the figureheads for the hippy counter-culture seems to give them greater cultural reach than the Beach Boys.

That said, as to who represents the decade better, the Beatles nearly touched all the bases so if you are going to go by the diverse experiences of the decade go with the most diverse (and influential) band.

[leonaozaki]

Can't chime on much in regards to the other questions, but we have to consider that while the hippy movement only came about around '66 and carried over somewhat into the early 70s, it is inextricably associated with the sixties and as such its hard not to think of psychedelia when thinking of that decade.

No question. But there was so much else going on in the 60's, musically, culturally, what have you, that I think picking the Grateful Dead as the other end of the spectrum from the Beatles is a bit of a false choice. Historically, the whole hippie/psychedelic thing was very limited in time and space throughout America and would never have become so inextricably linked with the 60's were it not for the corporations who turned it into a great marketing gimmick.

Moreover, the Dead's best records-- WORKINGMAN'S DEAD and AMERICAN BEAUTY-- aren't really even psychedelic records; they're more Americana/country-folk-rock than anything else. That whole "Long Strange Trip" thing didn't really get going until the 70's.

You want good psychedelic rock? Go get SURREALISTIC PILLOW. Plus the Airplane rocked harder.

rob

[Buried Alien]

And how can you say which band represented an entire decade? How is the decade of the 60's remembered? Disgruntled soldiers in Viet Nam with a Doors soundtrack playing in the background? Is it young guys street racing their cars listening to Wolfman Jack spin "Yummy yummy yummy" on their AM radio? To say that the Beach Boys (who the Beatles always tried to reach the success of, even after they had) do not represent an entire decade, but the Grateful Dead do, is just ignorant.

We're talking about general perceptions here, not necessarily reality as it unfolded during the 1960s.

By general perception, the Beatles and the Grateful Dead are much more inextricably linked to the 1960s than the Beach Boys are. You say "Beatles", and many people will conjure up images of Swinging London - an artifact of the Sixties. You say "Grateful Dead", and many people will see images of tie-dyed t-shirt wearing, pot-smoking hippies in Northern California circa 1966-1970. You say "Beach Boys", however, and most people will think of California beaches, hot rods, and blonde girls in bathing suits...things that existed in California long before the Beach Boys sang about them, and still exist in California even today. The images that the Beach Boys represented are more timeless than those associated with the Beatles and the Dead, and aren't so locked into the public perception of the 1960s.





Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[jessecuster]

We're talking about general perceptions here, not necessarily reality as it unfolded during the 1960s.

By general perception, the Beatles and the Grateful Dead are much more inextricably linked to the 1960s than the Beach Boys are. You say "Beatles", and many people will conjure up images of Swinging London - an artifact of the Sixties. You say "Grateful Dead", and many people will see images of tie-dyed t-shirt wearing, pot-smoking hippies in Northern California circa 1966-1970. You say "Beach Boys", however, and most people will think of California beaches, hot rods, and blonde girls in bathing suits...things that existed in California long before the Beach Boys sang about them, and still exist in California even today. The images that the Beach Boys represented are more timeless than those associated with the Beatles and the Dead, and aren't so locked into the public perception of the 1960s.
Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Umm the Dead's never really hit their heyday till the early 70's. Uncle John's Band was released in 1969, Sugar Magnolia, Friend of the Devil, and Truckin' were released in 1970. Their best shows with the biggest crowds and peak of their playing occurred between '73-'78. If anything they were definitve of the '70s not the '60s.

[Shellhead]

The impressive parade of Motown acts had much more impact on the music of the 60's than the Dead. The Motown sound was this whole cultural thing, while the Dead were a small sideshow, at least until the 70's.

[Lubichev]

The Beatles or The Grateful Dead. Are you kidding me? With all due respect the Dead really don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with the Beatles on any level. If you wanted to pick a band/artist that represented the counter-culture the best I'd go with Jefferson Airplane before I'd say The Dead.

Nothing more to say than that.

The Greatful Dead was a bar band that dicked around on instruments in front of thousands of drugged out audience members. You think these folks would have enjoyed GD as much if they weren't fu%ked up? I'm not arguing their popularity or ability to play music. But they ain't no Beatles. I bet even the surviving members of GD would agree.

[jessecuster]

Nothing more to say than that.

The Greatful Dead was a bar band that dicked around on instruments in front of thousands of drugged out audience members. You think these folks would have enjoyed GD as much if they weren't fu%ked up? I'm not arguing their popularity or ability to play music. But they ain't no Beatles. I bet even the surviving members of GD would agree.

This is sooo unbelievably naive, while there definitely was a "drug" culture around them, they were technically fantastic at their instruments and played constantly. Take a look at Festival Express, a documentary about their tour in Canada with Janice Joplin, The Band, Buddy Guy, and a number of other artists, throught their train ride, jerry is seen playing his guitar almost constantly. Those "jams" were well orchestrated by the band as a whole and only worked because they all played off of each other.

As far as technical musicianship, the Grateful Dead were better than The Beatles, who have described themselves as well know as "just a skiffle band".


It would be a shame to lump the Dead in with the modern "Pseudo Hippie" jam band thing, when they were practically the inventors of it.

[Dreadstar]

The Dead only represented the latter few years of the 60's.

Therefore the Beatles are more representative because they and their music encompassed much more of it. Even their stuff from '64 seemed to retroactively garner the feel for the previous 3 years.

[Lubichev]

they were technically fantastic at their instruments and played constantly. .
I never said they weren't. "I'm not arguing their popularity or ability to play music."-Me
I enjoy the Dead. Skeletons in the Closet is a great album. But Abbey Road is better. Don't call my viewpoint naive because I think the Beatles were the "more quintissental band of the '60."

[Shellhead]

What was the first year that each of us even heard of the Beatles? What about the Grateful Dead?

I actually owned a couple of Beatles singles as early in 1969, when I was a very young lad. We're talking pre-school age.

The Grateful Dead? I was dimly aware of the song Truckin' by the late 70's, and I finally got interested in their music by late 1983.

[Dreadstar]

What was the first year that each of us even heard of the Beatles?

She Loves You, 1964.

What about the Grateful Dead?

Live Dead, 1970 (?).