The Ultimates 3 creative team (maybe) REVEALED

[Jake V]

I got this second hand, but it goes like this:

At the "Cup of Joe" panel at Canadian con, Marvel editor CB Cebulski all but confirmed that Jeph Loeb and Joe Mad are the team for The Ultimates 3.

He was first asked what Joe Mad and Jeph Loeb were gonna be doing for Marvel. He replied "See Wizard in four days".

Someone later asked him who the next creative team on the Ultimates would be, and he replied "See Wizard in four days."

He finally said "I think you can all put two and two together."

Anyway, this does sound like the completely different take on the Ultimates like Millar was talking about in the Newsarama interview.

Sounds crazy enough to work.

[Kevinroc]

This has been the speculation for awhile, right? I know I've seen people think this was the team.

[jetter_cheeze]

Argh... I really didn't want to see this.

I will give it my 3 issue try. After that, we'll see how well things go.

[Will.S]

Hmm, I was hoping that they would do a 616 project but if the change of Ultimates status quo goes into what I think it will it could work out well.

[Doom Hammer]

Le sigh.

Do you get much different in artistic styles than Joe Mad and Bryan Hitch?

Can Jeph Loeb really capture the grittiness of the Ultimate Avengers?

I guess it doesn't matter. If this is the creative team, it will be a complete overhaul of the book as we know it.

Maybe it'll be good. Different, but good.

One thing's for sure...with Loeb and Mad on the book, it'll keep it's signature schedule... ;)

[John Wayne]

It’s the difference between Ruth's Chris and Sizzler. This 30 year Marvel fan will not be pleased if this is correct.

[lboinyamouf4sho]

i'm actually quite fond of joe mads work, but it doesn't fit the ultimates. but you never know never know maybe he has more than one style, we just haven't seen it yet.

[The Shadow]

One thing's for sure...with Loeb and Mad on the book, it'll keep it's signature schedule... ;)
LOL

No kidding!

[Brian Cronin]

In all seriousness, I think they made a fine move (from a commercial standpoint)

Why have someone just come on and copy Millar?

With this team, it will be TOTALLY different, while certainly keeping in line with the whole "13 issue season" thing.

-Brian

[Frank]

I got this second hand, but it goes like this:

At the "Cup of Joe" panel at Canadian con, Marvel editor CB Cebulski all but confirmed that Jeph Loeb and Joe Mad are the team for The Ultimates 3.

He was first asked what Joe Mad and Jeph Loeb were gonna be doing for Marvel. He replied "See Wizard in four days".

Someone later asked him who the next creative team on the Ultimates would be, and he replied "See Wizard in four days."

He finally said "I think you can all put two and two together."

Anyway, this does sound like the completely different take on the Ultimates like Millar was talking about in the Newsarama interview.

Sounds crazy enough to work.

So what did Wizard say?

[Jake V]

the con was today. Wizard comes out wednesday.

[Frank]

For the love of GAWD if Joe Mad and Loeb does The Ultimates i`m gonna tear Joe Q a new a-hole.

[atoningunifex]

With this team, it will be TOTALLY different, while certainly keeping in line with the whole "13 issue season" thing.

-Brian


Only this time the 13 issue season will be 9 years long. Mad makes Hitch look like John Byrne when it comes to cranking out an issue on time.

[Mo S.]

In all seriousness, I think they made a fine move (from a commercial standpoint)

Why have someone just come on and copy Millar?

With this team, it will be TOTALLY different, while certainly keeping in line with the whole "13 issue season" thing.
I agree that whoever comes next needs to be very distinct and a changeup from Millar and Hitch. But I thnk that The Ultimates already walks the fine line between "reality" and "parody" and it's Hitch's art, which makes them look like humans first and superheroes second, that keeps the title from falling off the cliff edge. Changing to a more cartoon-y art style will completely kill the more realistic, dramatic tone, one of the main things I like about the book.

Who would I have like to have seen? Well, for "different," Sean Phillips, JH Williams III, Steve Epting (though I don't want to see the Brubaker/Epting team broken up), Michael Lark. Leinel Yu would have been a good choice, too, speaking of new-to-Marvel. For "out there" choices - Charlie Adlard is a favorite of mine since I read Codeflesh. Heck, John Paul Leon's work on Winter Men over at WildStorm impressed me as well.

[thik_3rd]

woohoo. i hope this is true.
if mad starts now (5 months left in current volume), the first 6 issues could be on time.

[Ronald Bryan]

I still like my idea of Kevin Smith and Joe Mad, with the first issue coming out in 2015.

[Viking Bastard]

Who's Joe Mad?


And Jeph Loeb? Geeze. Not all that interested.

[Kevinroc]

Who's Joe Mad?


And Jeph Loeb? Geeze. Not all that interested.

Joe Madureira. Used to be really big.

[jam37wcc]

I think Joe Mad's art style would fit good on it, if they did Ultimate New Ultimates. Team could be:

Beast who never really died, government faked the whole thing, and he has been experimenting in a lab somewhere being all depressed because he doesn't think Storm loves him. Also could be there X-Men connection so they could exclude Wolverine. Also could replace Hank and Bruce so they have a genius on their team.

Spider-Man, shouldn't he be turning 18 soon.

Captain America because he is Captain America.

Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch bigger role. Maybe bring in a love interest for one of these to get rid of the incest thing seemingly going on.

Iron Man but only because he has minis coming out, to keep interest in him.

And last Vision.

[Cayman]

I thought Loeb's Maximums in Superman/Batman were supposed to be a parody of the Ultimates?

Anyway, bleh bleh bleh.

Cay

[Titan Slade]

Who's Joe Mad?


This guy.

http://www.newsarama.com/Image/sf01covAfin1s.jpg
http://www.joemadfan.com/news/marvelpicinks.jpg

[Titan Slade]

http://www.joemadfan.com/tempmadsite/psmSubZero.jpg

[Captain]

If this is true, I will still give the book a chance, but it will almost certainly be the polar opposite stylewise of what is happening now, and I really like what is happening now.

Really like...

[Will.S]

Yeah, don't knock it until you try it.

[JLarson]

I don't think I've ever enjoyed a Loeb penned comic. And Joe Mad! is a bit too 1990's for me.

The good news is that this way I can avoid both of them by avoiding a single comic.

[hbkabdul]

im hating this already talk about polar opposites but ill give the first few issues a try and hopefully itll be better than expected. not a big fan of loeb and honestly j mad's style honestly looks to be too anime for a title like ultimates

[thik_3rd]

what's with the loeb hate? i never read anything bad by him.

[Ryan K]

Ugh.

I really hope this isn't true. It'd be like going from eating steak to pixie sticks.

[Cayman]

Loeb's just not a very substantial writer, so it's hard to see him doing much of worth with this project.

Cay

[Lurker]

what's with the loeb hate? i never read anything bad by him.

Its karma for you knocking on Garth in the Millar interview thread.

Marvel just seems to be giving me all kind of excuses to drop titles. 1st, Supreme Power puts on kid's gloves, and now with the combined talents of Loeb and Mad!, the Ultimates is morphing into a saturday morning cartoon. Ah well, I still have Frank unless thik_3rd has Garth assasinated and Joey the Q relaunches Punisher as an All Ages book written by who else but Bendis.

[thik_3rd]

as long as ennis cranks out an authority kev mini annually he staves off death for another year.

[kcekada]

I'm sure Ultimates will do just fine with a new creative team, but I'm not sure I'll be part of the readership.

Although the stories have always been interesting, Hitch's artwork is what sells this book. Without him (like Ultimates Annual), the book will seem watered down. And MAD on Ultimates isn't something I want to see.

[Viking Bastard]

Joe Mad. Is this the Battle Chasers guy?


Allright. I liked that.

[malephoenix]

I'm not convinced from this that these guys are the new creative team. We'll see, but I love Loeb, and as long as it's not Miller-esque in one-sided political writing, I would buy anything that Mad! does. He's my absolute favorite artist, and I've been VERY happy to see that he's returning to comics. I just hung a pin-up in my new apartment that's of his first Astonishing X-Men cover from the Age of Apocalypse.

Great stuff. Wow, I'm glad he's back.

[Adem]

I won't hate a book till it comes out and I try it ,but from what I've seen I don't like Mad's art.

[pureclint]

Loeb knocks me out of the Ultimates. His lack of substance and generally mediocre writing does not fit with a Ultimate Title, he would do better on a more all ages/teen level book. Also, could Marvel perhaps find a wee bit less Leftish guy to write the book? This guy recently compared George W. Bush to Lex Luthor in a public forum (no intelligence jokes needed please, regardless it is disrespectful to compare the president to a super villain).

However all that aside MAD puts me back on the fence, I love that guys art. Damn, editors knowing how to get me to buy a Loeb Book!!!

[Mister Mets]

I'm waiting for the trade if this is the creative team. At least it's high-profille, but I would've chosen someone else. Maybe writing parodies of Avengers is what it takes to write the Ultimates (millar parodied the Avengers in Authority, Loeb parodied the Ultimates in Superman/ Batman). I really can't see Joe Mad drawing the quieter scenes of the book, although the new series may not have any, which would probably be a bad idea.

[malephoenix]

I really can't see Joe Mad drawing the quieter scenes of the book, although the new series may not have any, which would probably be a bad idea.

Check out Uncanny #337. A great downtime issue after the events of Onslaught. Not just quiet scenes, but an entire ISSUE. The cover design even does a good job of communicating the message of the book.

I don't know how to put the image on here, but here (http://) is some more info on the issue, plus you can click on the cover and it'll show a good size of it.

[Doom Hammer]

I agree that whoever comes next needs to be very distinct and a changeup from Millar and Hitch. But I thnk that The Ultimates already walks the fine line between "reality" and "parody" and it's Hitch's art, which makes them look like humans first and superheroes second, that keeps the title from falling off the cliff edge. Changing to a more cartoon-y art style will completely kill the more realistic, dramatic tone, one of the main things I like about the book.

You came out and said exactly what I was thinking. There's something to be said for keeping a book fresh, but completely changing the tone of a phenomenally successful book? I dunno...

I wish Millar and Hitch would just stay on forever, and I'm not ashamed to admit it!

But who knows. It could turn out well. I liked Ultimate War, and it was rather cartoony...

[Jake V]

One thing that people have to consider is this: We have no idea what condition Millar will leave the Ultimates in when this season ends.

The team could be decimated. The team could potentially no longer exist. The team could cut all ties to SHIELD or the US government. The team might not even be called the Ultimates anymore, it could relaunch as the Ultimate Avengers and have a completely different tone.

As much as I'm bored and annoyed by the choice as Loeb as a writer, there could be a completely rational explanation for the 180 degree art shift that Joe Mad would bring.

This could work.

Then again, this could all be BS, as it seems that Cebulski is backtracking on Millarworld.

[stealthwise]

Loeb and Madureira?

Goodnight, sweet Ultimates. I'm supremely disappointed.

[Titan Slade]

All this negativity, and the Loeb/Madureira rumor has not been officially confirmed(but I hope it is :D ).

[THE OG GL]

jo mad used to be one of my favorite.... until i saw bryans work work on ultimates that guy is just rediculous that thor cover is so amazing from know on when ever captain america or captain britain are drawn he better be doing it unless jack rises from his grave

[Lurker]

There's something to be said for keeping a book fresh, but completely changing the tone of a phenomenally successful book? I dunno...

My thoughts exactly.

I wish Millar and Hitch would just stay on forever, and I'm not ashamed to admit it!

Ditto.

This is definitely a whole different can of worms than when Warreb Ellis left the Authority and supposedly hand-picked Millar as his successor.

[Frank]

I think for me it has to be realistic to keep the power of this title intact. BUT if with a twisted style like Klaus Janson is named as artist that would be very inspired.

[Michael P]

There's something to be said for keeping a book fresh, but completely changing the tone of a phenomenally successful book? I dunno...
Worked for this guy:

http://www.lambiek.net/artists/romita_sr/romita_sr_spiderman.jpg

[JLarson]

The confirmation of the news has confirmed my exit from readership. Both are sub-par talents, in my opinion, and are polar opposites of what the title should have.

[Kriminal]

Wow! How completely underwhelming.

[Ryan K]

So this has been confirmed now?

[Jim Yost]

I dunno... I like Loeb's writing; once upon a time he was the writer I followed from book to book. I'm gonna roll the dice on him alone.

Mad!... I never really took to his style, but if he tones it down a slight bit in the cartoony department, this book will gel more with Ultimate Spider-Man and (the current) Ultimate X-Men in terms of art... leaving Ultimate FF as the "still frame motion picture" book of the line.

Which is fine with me.

[SpiderGuile]

Just wanted to say hi!
Tale care, gang!!

[kcekada]

Well, now that it's official, I though occurred to me.

I think it would be a huge mistake for Loeb to try and emulate the gritty black ops feel that Millar brought to the table.

In fact, It would probably make sense to completely overhaul the book...new costumes, new characters...the whole enchilada. Otherwise, the book will just be a watered-down version of what came before.

[Titan Slade]

Well, now that it's official, I though occurred to me.

I think it would be a huge mistake for Loeb to try and emulate the gritty black ops feel that Millar brought to the table.

In fact, It would probably make sense to completely overhaul the book...new costumes, new characters...the whole enchilada. Otherwise, the book will just be a watered-down version of what came before.

I agree. No need to mess with greatness. So Loeb and Madureira should just do their own thing, instead of tyring to copy Millar and Hitch's stuff.

[Brock]

Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale might have been a better way to go.

[JLarson]

From tomorrow's Wizard, as reported by Ryan Higgins at Millarworld:

Joe Mad:

"There are definately going to be some slight -- and some not-so-slight -- visual changes to the characters. I want to take the characters a little closer to their 'traditional' costumes, and make them look more like comic book superheroes and less like film superheroes. That said, this book is huge for Marvel, so I'm sure they aren't going to want me monkying around with it too much!"

Jeph Loeb:

"Probably a little less political satire --Mark does that better than anyone -- and a little more superhero actiony, which I think folks expect of me."

More in tomorrow's issue of Wizard.

Kill me.

[Ryan K]

That's pretty much the worst quotes I could have imagined coming from their mouths.

It's so unreal. It's almost like Marvel is being sarcastic and screwing with me.

They're not are they?

[Cayman]

They should call it Ultimate Avengers finally.

Cay

[BoosterBronze]

I like Loeb as a writer, and I recall I used to like Madeuria's art (where he been for 8 years or something), but i REALLY LOVE the Ultimates. The book is genius. I am definetly... nervous seems the right word, that this will not be cool, just in terms of completly reworking what makes the book good. But I'll hope for the best and give it a chance.

[Titan Slade]

The Mad man's art style is better suited for superheroey stuff than realistic looking stuff, so the costume changes make sense for Mad's style. And Loeb should write the book in a style that he is comfortable with so we get his best effots for this (current)great book. I am a huge Joe Madureira fan, so even though I would not have chosen the Ultimates as the title he should draw, I am just glad he is back at Marvel drawing one of their ongoing series :D .

[jwmojo]

I certainly understand resistance to change. Personally, I like Jeph Loeb quite a bit, so I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do on Ultimates. At the same time, though, I really enjoyed Millar's work on the title. I don't expect Loeb to be better or worse, just different. And as with most new writers and comics, I'll wait and see the first couple of issues to decide if I'll continue to buy it.

The thing I don't understand is all of the people I have read comments from (on this and other boards) that have flat out said "I will no longer buy this book."

It's definitely your right to decide to do that, but it seems pretty close minded. Maybe you haven't enjoyed Jeph or Joe's work in the past, but does that mean you won't like this? Not necessarily. Or maybe you DO like Jeph and Joe's work, but don't feel they are right for this book, but does that mean this book is going to suck? Not necessarily.

It would be different if Marvel was firing Millar from the book and you were protesting that. But Millar has been publicly supportive of this decision, and would not be staying on the book, regardless.

Like I said, everyone is free to buy or not buy, but I don't see how you can expect Marvel (or anyone else) to take your outrage seriously when you're making this decision without seeing and reading at least an issue or two of the product.

[Titan Slade]

It would be different if Marvel was firing Millar from the book and you were protesting that. But Millar has been publicly supportive of this decision, and would not be staying on the book, regardless.

Like I said, everyone is free to buy or not buy, but I don't see how you can expect Marvel (or anyone else) to take your outrage seriously when you're making this decision without seeing and reading at least an issue or two of the product.

This and other message boards represent 0.001% of the comic book buyers market, so don't use the fanboy outrage on message boards as a reflection of the comic book market. Joe Madureira's last semi-regular series Battle Chasers sold over 100K every issue, just as he and Loeb's Ultimates will. The Ultimates Vol.III under a new Super Star creative team in Loeb and Madureira will still be a gold mine in sales for Marvel breaking the 100K mark every single issue, just like Millar and Hitch's Ultimates does every time it comes out. Marvel made a smart move with this new creative team.

[Steve]

Wasn't the book I wanted Joe Mad to be on but I'll definitely give it a chance seeing as how I'm a huge Mad fan.

[jj9126]

From tomorrow's Wizard, as reported by Ryan Higgins at Millarworld:



Kill me.

Ditto. It's like a parody of a press release: "Let's take everything unique and great about the book...and dump it!"

I'll still give it a shot - but my gut tells me where this is going. Oh well, another one bites the dust.

The mind boggles at how Marvel is going to top this. What nightmarish team do they have planned to replace Brubaker & Epting on "Captain America"?

[Alan2099]

So, we might finally get a group of heroes that act like heroes and actually do superhero stuff. It's about time.

[jj9126]

So, we might finally get a group of heroes that act like heroes and actually do superhero stuff. It's about time.

There are already dozens of books (many featuring the same characters) that do just that.

Why we need another comic that is completely indistinguishable from the herd is questionable...

[Joe Zool]

I want to take the characters a little closer to their 'traditional' costumes, and make them look more like comic book superheroes and less like film superheroes.

Isn't that, like, the original reason behind the Ultimates? To move away from that very thing?

[ILLUS]

Ultimates is the only book I collect regularly and I am very disappointed in this change. I actually am very upset.

[Will.S]

I see Madureira probably giving Cap a similar uniform to his volume one look.

As for Loeb, I figure he's written his fair share of dark stuff with Batman and made a little parody team over in Superman/Batman called the Maximums (which is pretty late and kind of a lame idea at this point) but he can handle this assignment. I figure with this title it was a long road of corruption by their gov't so they needed a bit more of a shining light and independence, especially when they are being replaced rapidly.

[jrio]

Madureira seems an atrocious choice to follow Hitch. His art is really bombastic and that cover of Wolverine/Hulk/Spider-Man is the ugliest thing I've seen in years. I'd have thought he was eminently suitable for NA. The comments about making it more "superheroey" are presumably a joke from Loeb though it would tie in with Madureira being the artist. I don't think anyone has said they liked Loeb's parody in Superman/Batman but I couldn't find anything offensive about it and I thought it was as well done as any others. You can't deny the amount of truth that emanates from showing people with power in whatever form abusing it.

It's hard to understand why some of the people reading Ultimates expect it to portray a government funded super team as having less than altruistic motives. You've got to laugh at anyone who thinks that being disrespectful to the president is something to be suspicious of. Respect is something you have to earn, not something that is conferred on you by being elected. Writers are supposed to be questioning of authority, one of the reasons I've been happy with Millar's work on this title and probably why a lot of readers buy it.

[stealthwise]

The thing I don't understand is all of the people I have read comments from (on this and other boards) that have flat out said "I will no longer buy this book."

It's definitely your right to decide to do that, but it seems pretty close minded. Maybe you haven't enjoyed Jeph or Joe's work in the past, but does that mean you won't like this? Not necessarily. Or maybe you DO like Jeph and Joe's work, but don't feel they are right for this book, but does that mean this book is going to suck? Not necessarily.


Because I don't care enough about the characters to endure another horrible Loeb book.

[Titan Slade]

over at www.comicon.com/pulse, there is an excerpt form Loeb's Wizard interview stating that Madureira was his 1st, last, and only choice to draw his stories on the Ultimates. He also said that he and Mad's season of the Ultimates would only begin when they could keep the book on schedule for the next 12 issues. Loeb said that his story takes place after a significant amount of time has passed and means that anybody on the team can be shifted in or out, there can be new team members, and how they got there will be revealed.

[ILLUS]

I am not a fan of his writing and will check it out for the art but doubt I will collect it. Oh well. As for teh comments regarding fan outrage..isn't that what these silly forurms are for anyway? To express ourselves?

[Viking Bastard]

I still dream of a Joe Casey and John Cassady team-up on the title.

Season 4? Please?

[Kirk G]

Ditto. It's like a parody of a press release: "Let's take everything unique and great about the book...and dump it!"

I'll still give it a shot - but my gut tells me where this is going. Oh well, another one bites the dust.

The mind boggles at how Marvel is going to top this. What nightmarish team do they have planned to replace Brubaker & Epting on "Captain America"?
Liebfield and Ditko?

[Frank]

So, we might finally get a group of heroes that act like heroes and actually do superhero stuff. It's about time.

Worst Post in the History of these Boards.

[mastaflan]

Joe Mad is a punk who betrayed his fans in the late 90's. He would rather play video games then finish a project that he started that Fans supported. He's a big diassapointement in my book....

He reminds me of someone else I knew who grew too big for his britches...He started as an artist and just gave it up to sell these fantastic toys. Except Joe never did anything or leave behind an apprentice to finish his work. Just left his fans hanging.

I wouldn't trust him on any project. He should just stick to covers so he doesn't add to the further downfall of the comic industry.

[Jake V]

So, we might finally get a group of heroes that act like heroes and actually do superhero stuff. It's about time.
Yes, I too hope that The Ultimates abandons everything that made it special, unique and interesting in favor of being exactly like EVERY OTHER COMIC ON SALE TODAY. Oh, how I love cookie-cutter superheros and the complete homogenization of comic books.

[Will.S]

Joe Mad is a punk who betrayed his fans in the late 90's. He would rather play video games then finish a project that he started that Fans supported. He's a big diassapointement in my book....

He reminds me of someone else I knew who grew too big for his britches...He started as an artist and just gave it up to sell these fantastic toys. Except Joe never did anything or leave behind an apprentice to finish his work. Just left his fans hanging.

I wouldn't trust him on any project. He should just stick to covers so he doesn't add to the further downfall of the comic industry.
Ouch.......

[Gibran]

If they were going to switch the artstyle, I'd rather they tried someone like Mike Oeming rather than Mad. Would have been better (IMO) than regressing to a conventional action book style of art, which runs the risk of regressing Ultimates itself.

Combined with Loeb's style... I dunno, I think people will grow bored and just drop it for comics that do the same thing, only better.

[Michael P]

I think I finally understand why so many comic fans don't have girlfriends.

I mean, if she changed her haircut, she'd be a completely different person!

[chriskenny]

I have no problems with The Ultimates going in a new direction. To be honest, after two 12 part epics, it might be time.

HOWEVER...

There is a difference between aping what came before and simply honoring a premise of a book. I think the success of the book has much to do with the real-world approach the creators take. I believe you can maintain that feel without "aping" Millar or Hitch. For instance, I am sure Brubaker will take Daredevil in a different direction than Bendis, but will maintain the tone that is appropriate for the book.

The quotes of the two new creators is inappropriate to the mission statement of The Ultimates book. The appeal of the book is the exact opposite of their approach.

I think the naysayers aren't asking for more of the same. I just think that it honor the roots of the characters and the philosophy of the book. If you look at what Millar did, for instance, when he took over for Ellis on The Authority-- he maintained many of the components that made the Ellis run appealing while focusing more on other topics, like politics and celebrity. But the overall philosophy established by Ellis wasn't ignored but, in many ways, enhanced.

Loeb and Mad seem that they plan to make the book the antithesis of what has been established. I think it is right of people to feel annoyed at that decision.

[Titan76]

Change can be good and change can be bad. It just depends on the person. I will give this a try and if I like it I will kept on buying it or I'll drop it if I think it sucks. I think people also need to realize is that no one will ever, ever replace Millar/Hitch and with that being said their would have been fan outrage no matter who took over this book cause their not Millar/Hitch. These 2 guys owned this book.

[tricksterpup]

Loeb and Mad are the creative team on Ulitmates 3, well, i probably will not pick up the book. I do not care for Jeff as a writer, I think his stuff is under par. And Mad, well he is no Brian Hitch. I would love to see another British team take over the book, now that would be sweet. Give Steve Dillion the art and Ennis as the writer. I think that would be an interesting book.

[DJ Rustbucket]

Worst Post in the History of these Boards.

Harsh, dude.

I plan on buying the book. Hell, I'm even excited about it. If it takes the series in a different direction, great. So be it. Not that the Millar/Hitch run(s) were anything to sneeze at--those comics are, to me, legendary. However, if change happens, as long as the story warrents the change, I see no problem.

And I know people have problems with Joe Mad, whether it's because of his lateness with previous books or thinking his art style doesn't fit, but, to me, a lot's changed from the 90's era of comics. Stories seem to be more story oriented as opposed to splash-page after splash-page. I very much look forward to seeing how Joe renders the emotions of the different characters and the different attitudes. And, hopefully, I'll get to see a Joe Mad Hulk rampage!

I can understand why people would be upset about such a drastic change, but I'm going to give Marvel the benefit of the doubt and trust they know what they're doing.

[Titan Slade]

I think I finally understand why so many comic fans don't have girlfriends.

I mean, if she changed her haircut, she'd be a completely different person!

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah... but a lot of the posters around here have boyfriends from what I have observed ;) . The manlove is very abundant around here :eek: .

[mastaflan]

Ouch.......


I have a burning hatred for this guy cuzz I really liked Battle Chasers and he just stopped....cold turkey... I haven't forgiven him since...

[mastaflan]

Harsh, dude.

And I know people have problems with Joe Mad, whether it's because of his lateness with previous books or thinking his art style doesn't fit, but, to me, a lot's changed from the 90's era of comics.


LATENESS!!!!!! try total abandonment and betrayal of his fans..

[MegaRaptor Scribe]

I don't think the "tone or philosophy" of The Ultimates is unique or worthwhile at all, but then, it's not exactly good writing to shift it to something else.

So, on that token, I consider The Ultimates to be far beyond saving.

I won't cry for it.

[Titan Slade]

LATENESS!!!!!! try total abandonment and betrayal of his fans..

I'm a huge Joe Mad fan, and I do not feel betrayed. His first love is video games, not comic books, so I can't blame him for jumping at the chance to design video games. He got the chance to work on his dream job, so he did what any other person would do, he went for it. I feel happy for him. How many people around the world get the chance to work with what they are the most passionate about? Not many ;) . Can't fault a man for this.

[John Wayne]

Originally Posted by Michael Pullmann
I think I finally understand why so many comic fans don't have girlfriends.

I mean, if she changed her haircut, she'd be a completely different person!


Originally Posted by TITANN SLADE
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah... but a lot of the posters around here have boyfriends from what I have observed.
The manlove is very abundant around here.

Originally Posted by TITANN SLADE
I'm a huge Joe Mad fan, and I do not feel betrayed.
His first love is video games, not comic books, so I can't blame him for jumping at the chance to design video games.
He got the chance to work on his dream job, so he did what any other person would do, he went for it.
I feel happy for him. How many people around the world get the chance to work with what they are the most passionate about? Not many.
Can't fault a man for this.

Sounds like man love to me.

[Titan Slade]

Originally Posted by Michael Pullmann
I think I finally understand why so many comic fans don't have girlfriends.

I mean, if she changed her haircut, she'd be a completely different person!


Originally Posted by TITANN SLADE
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah... but a lot of the posters around here have boyfriends from what I have observed.
The manlove is very abundant around here.

Originally Posted by TITANN SLADE
I'm a huge Joe Mad fan, and I do not feel betrayed.
His first love is video games, not comic books, so I can't blame him for jumping at the chance to design video games.
He got the chance to work on his dream job, so he did what any other person would do, he went for it.
I feel happy for him. How many people around the world get the chance to work with what they are the most passionate about? Not many.
Can't fault a man for this.

Sounds like man love to me.

:eek: :confused: ;)

[mastaflan]

I'm a huge Joe Mad fan, and I do not feel betrayed. His first love is video games, not comic books, so I can't blame him for jumping at the chance to design video games. He got the chance to work on his dream job, so he did what any other person would do, he went for it. I feel happy for him. How many people around the world get the chance to work with what they are the most passionate about? Not many ;) . Can't fault a man for this.


Don't get me wrong I was a Huge Mad fan. I got everything he worked on in comics...Including his Pic of Diehard (youngblood). Which is why I freakin hate him now. He got money and then got lazy..... He should never have started the Battle Chaser project. He had a strong following and he crapped on everybody by not following through...He didn't even finish Battle Chasers..Maybe I'm out of the loop here but I don't see any of his games...

[Titan Slade]

Don't get me wrong I was a Huge Mad fan. I got everything he worked on in comics...Including his Pic of Diehard (youngblood). Which is why I freakin hate him now. He got money and then got lazy..... He should never have started the Battle Chaser project. He had a strong following and he crapped on everybody by not following through...He didn't even finish Battle Chasers..Maybe I'm out of the loop here but I don't see any of his games...

Look, I was pissed when Jim Lee left the X-Men for Image. I was pissed when Joe Mad left the X-Men for Homage studios. Now I am overly joyed that Joe Mad is back at Marvel, and I would welcome Jime Lee back with open arms as well. I want to see Joe Mad drawing Marvel characters so badly, that I can easily overlook his past sins ;) .

[Adam Crocker]

He should never have started the Battle Chaser project. He had a strong following and he crapped on everybody by not following through...He didn't even finish Battle Chasers...

Maybe the problem isn't so much that he started Battlechasers as he should never started doing design work for video games.

That said Madureira? Ugh. Besides the fact that I don't like him (anymore...man I liked a lot of bad artists back in the day) he's a pretty inappropriate artist for this book.

[tricksterpup]

I'm a huge Joe Mad fan, and I do not feel betrayed. His first love is video games, not comic books, so I can't blame him for jumping at the chance to design video games. He got the chance to work on his dream job, so he did what any other person would do, he went for it. I feel happy for him. How many people around the world get the chance to work with what they are the most passionate about? Not many ;) . Can't fault a man for this.
I wish people would understand this about Kevin Smith. Film is his passion, comics is a side thing.

[THE OG GL]

[QUOTE]I have a burning hatred for this guy cuzz I really liked Battle Chasers and he just stopped....cold turkey... I haven't forgiven him since...[QUOTE]

i feel ya man this pissed me of so much with that battle chasers thing he is a bum, at least finish it. I still will pick up ultimates beacause i love the story so far but it will be intresting to see where they take it.

[Lurker]

Well, I see it is now official. It was fun while it lasted and I still have the rest of Millar and Hitch's run to enjoy before the Ultimates turn into another run of the mill tights book.

[IamtheRock3]

sense he talked a lot of Junk about the Ultimate line

[IamtheRock3]

Also he was mr Anti Darkness

And the Ultimate a very dark cynical book

[Beast]

Do you actually have some relevant quotes? And who says Ultimates will be a dark book once Millar's run is over. Frankly the 616 Avengers are darker than the Ultimates at the moment anyway. Or were during Disassembled. :)

[cosmoboy]

Yeah it might be odd, but different. I hope he doesn't change it into a run of the mill team book though. Incidentally Why would Iamtherock need any relevant quotes? He's just asking for an opinion.

[Beast]

He's not asking for an opinion. He's claiming that Loeb has talked junk about the Ultimate line in the past as well as being Mr. Anti Darkness. So he does need relivant quotes. :)

[cosmoboy]

'Doh, I get you now Beast I misunderstood. :) and I'll just bow my head and walk akwardly backwards out of this little conversation.

[IamtheRock3]

dont have actully quote but what I read in magazines.

some interview he made in Wizard..during the DC vs Marvel thing

His comments about what happen to the spoof of Lois Lane in marvel
Also his comments about the ultimate line at Wizard con. Baiscly Superman/Batman pretty much making fun of it

Also he said the Ultimate were rip offs of the JLA one time and was putting them down

[Will.S]

For you guys who don't have the new Wizard yet http://www.joemadfan.com/ has pics of Joe's preliminary sketch work on some members.

Personally it looks awesome and I love his Cap and Black Widow.

[Beast]

Ooo, thanks for the link, Will.S. It does look rather tasty. :)

[Titan Slade]

For you guys who don't have the new Wizard yet http://www.joemadfan.com/ has pics of Joe's preliminary sketch work on some members.

Personally it looks awesome and I love his Cap and Black Widow.

Holy Sh!+ those sketches kick major azz :D. Stop b!tching people.

http://www.joemadfan.com/news/cap2.jpg
http://www.joemadfan.com/news/widow.jpg

[Will.S]

Ooo, thanks for the link, Will.S. It does look rather tasty. :)
Heh no problem but also thank Jake V. I would have scanned them personally but I fear teh Wizard lawyers!

Anyway yeah while Joe's trademark big dude Hulk looks kind of freaky, he's kind of restrained and going towards a slightly more realistic look. I love that Cap is back to his old skullcap again even though it's less functional.

[streator]

i only read ultimates in trades, and to be honest, the 2nd millar/hitch season 2 tpb will be my last. don't care about loeb, and would rather see madureira on another project. i know i haven't read it yet, or reviews of it, but i really forsee myself leaving once millar/hitch do.

[Brian M.]

That looks good.

[Ultraman Max]

Honestly not reading the current title, haven't been a fan of alot of Millar's work outside Aztek and Superman Adventures, but I'll pick this up. Loeb's fairly hit and miss with me but his work tends strike me as enjoyable when he's paired with someone who can bring a certain amount of energy to their work. And that Cap drawing certainly had that.

And I personally kinda liked the Maxiums send up. :p

[ILLUS]

They should have gotten Lee Weeks to do the art.

He's a much better artist.

[Ryan K]

Looks like everything else Mad's ever done.

Looks like Ultimates vs. Capcom designs.

[Cayman]

I'm less concerned about the art than the writing, I just don't have that much faith in Loeb to maintain the quality of the first two runs.

Cay

[Titan Slade]

They should have gotten Lee Weeks to do the art.

He's a much better artist.

Marvel is trying to keep the sales on the Ultimates above 100K, and Lee Weeks art won't do that ;) . Just a helpful tip. And Mad's Ultimate Hulk looks better than Hitch's version.
http://www.joemadfan.com/news/hulk.jpg

[DJ Rustbucket]

LATENESS!!!!!! try total abandonment and betrayal of his fans..
Yeah, okay, I understand, but what if he came to your house and gave you a foot rub?

[kcekada]

I'm less concerned about the art than the writing

Well, it depends on what Loeb's approach will be. His Batman: Last Halloween series is very respected in the industry. His Hush and Superman/Batman stories have been pretty much fanboy driven.

Hadn't seen Mad's art in a while until yesterday. Yikes! Not my cup of tea, at all. Being that I'm not very enamored with New Avengers (the Sentry story was good for a mini, but that's it), Young Avengers may be the only Avengers title I buy next year.

[kcekada]

Well, I see it is now official. It was fun while it lasted and I still have the rest of Millar and Hitch's run to enjoy before the Ultimates turn into another run of the mill tights book.

Exactly.

At one point, I actually thought Marvel may have the balls to cancel Ultimates after Millar and Hitch left. I know that isn't very realistic, but look at The Authority. After Ellis and Hitch left, the book just wasn't worth collecting. It was okay, but after you've been to the top, everything else is downhill.

[kcekada]

he Ultimates Vol.III under a new Super Star creative team in Loeb and Madureira will still be a gold mine in sales for Marvel breaking the 100K mark every single issue, just like Millar and Hitch's Ultimates does every time it comes out. Marvel made a smart move with this new creative team.

That is very possible.

On the other hand, those numbers will probably be comprised of a new fanbase...which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I know of people who didn't like Hitch. Maybe MAD is more their style. I never liked MAD's art, but when I drop the book, someone else will probably start collecting it for his art.

[protonik]

I hope it is digitally inked because all the attempts to black line Mad's art in the last few things I have seen looked like crap. His style has become too fine to do that kind of black spotting on. Take the Cap ppic, that is GORGEOUS and I think the whole book would look awesome like that, helping in establishing that new direction. I am also looking forward to what Loeb is doing, sure he is going more superheroey route but I think he is taking the blockbuster approach and Mad is perfect for that...

Also, getting Epting or Phillips or someone like that would ruin tis book, it would STILL be aping Hitch. This book needs a visual overhaul and it worked with the Authority, which is all the Ultimates are... sooooo

Jason

[Titan Slade]

he Ultimates Vol.III under a new Super Star creative team in Loeb and Madureira will still be a gold mine in sales for Marvel breaking the 100K mark every single issue, just like Millar and Hitch's Ultimates does every time it comes out. Marvel made a smart move with this new creative team.

That is very possible.

On the other hand, those numbers will probably be comprised of a new fanbase...which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I know of people who didn't like Hitch. Maybe MAD is more their style. I never liked MAD's art, but when I drop the book, someone else will probably start collecting it for his art.

You do realize that Loeb's ongoing DC titles sell over 100K per issue as well, and he is a constant on Wizard's top 10 writers list every month. Loeb is as big a name writer as anybody in the business right now and his Batman with Jim Lee sold over 100K every issue as well as his Superman/Batman does with Ed McGuiness, Mike Turner, and Carlos Pacheco, as the artists. Loeb and a big name artist like Joe Mad on an Ultimate title will outsell the Millar/Hitch Ultimates, because Joe Mad was and is a bigger name artist than Bryan Hitch is or ever has been and Hitch is great, but he is no Madureira. And before anybody drops the book without even reading the Loeb/Madureira stuff, you will be missing out big time I guarantee.

[Titan Slade]

I am also looking forward to what Loeb is doing, sure he is going more superheroey route but I think he is taking the blockbuster approach and Mad is perfect for that...

Also, getting Epting or Phillips or someone like that would ruin tis book, it would STILL be aping Hitch. This book needs a visual overhaul and it worked with the Authority, which is all the Ultimates are... sooooo

Jason

Not only that Jason, but Epting and Phillips are not big enough name artists to keep the sales on the Ultimates over it's current 100K mark and either guy would hurt the books sales and Marvel does not want this.

[Viking Bastard]

Looking at Mad's art samples and remembering Mad's Battle Chasers, I'm
thinking that inking and colouring will be very, very important for keeping
some of the book's feel.

Detailed and dark.

[Will.S]

Looking at Mad's art samples and remembering Mad's Battle Chasers, I'm
thinking that inking and colouring will be very, very important for keeping
some of the book's feel.

Detailed and dark.
Yeah I agree, although I hope it's like the color over pencils look of the pic of Cap throwing the shield.

[lboinyamouf4sho]

i'm digging the sketches, still have my questions but i'm definately not dropping the book w/o atleast reading the 1st couple of issues.

[Paradox]

kcekada is a kindred spirit:

At one point, I actually thought Marvel may have the balls to cancel Ultimates after Millar and Hitch left. I know that isn't very realistic, but look at The Authority. After Ellis and Hitch left, the book just wasn't worth collecting. It was okay, but after you've been to the top, everything else is downhill.

That's where I'm at (throw in recent attempts to revive Top 10 over at ABC for another disappointment). I'm decidedly NOT a Joe Mad fan. He's skilled, but I don't care for the style he works in (yeah, I agree with "Ultimates vs. Capcom"). Loeb is...O.K., no better. Heck, Ultimates is one of the few books I even like Millar on.

I'll give it a shot, but those "preview quotes" don't bode well for me lasting very long.

[Neolucifer]

WoW i'm totally digging those sketches !! I dont agree that it really apes his Capcom works and illustrations , as for those you can see how he tried to follow the previous works of street fighters artists ... while those new ultimates sketchs looks less cartoony and anime-ish and possibly fitting for his future run.

[cowboyfunk]

...those sketches are cool.

Mad is definitely stylized, but golly...me likey.

[mastaflan]

Yeah, okay, I understand, but what if he came to your house and gave you a foot rub?


All would be forgiven then....

on a side note his talent can't be denied and I am impressed....Make me like you again Joe.... and don't abandon your post....

[mastaflan]

Holy Sh!+ those sketches kick major azz :D. Stop b!tching people.

http://www.joemadfan.com/news/cap2.jpg
http://www.joemadfan.com/news/widow.jpg



I know the tatoo looks good but a spy would not likely put identification markers on such obvious places...

[Neolucifer]

and a soldier would definitely avoid Light blue and red on a battlefield :D

[Titan Slade]

and a soldier would definitely avoid Light blue and red on a battlefield :D

And don't forget white, it is the anti-camoflage color.

[Taskmaster]

Dang it, I've avoided and Ultimates ever since I got the very first issue so long ago, hated the trades and left them on the shelves, but with Joe Mad on it i'll be first in line this time :D :D

[Ugoff]

Dang it, I've avoided and Ultimates ever since I got the very first issue so long ago, hated the trades and left them on the shelves, but with Joe Mad on it i'll be first in line this time :D :D


I've loved Ultimates from the beginning, so you'll have to get in line behind me! lol, just kidding with ya. But seriously I'm very excited for the new creative team. I was kinda skeptical at first cuz I didnt know who was going to replace Millar/Hitch but now I feel sure the title will continue to be great. I think the art on this title doesnt matter now cuz the stories have been so good. As long as the storylines are good, I'll keep buying.

[RocketBoy]

So far, I'm despising his art on this. But I've never liked his art on anything else he has done. And Jeph Loeb can weave a decent yarn (but only if you ignore Commando and Teen Wolf Too) from time to time, but I don't see him having what it takes for this series. Not unless marvel is trying to drastically change the direction of the book. Which may very well be their intention. The addition of Madiereiarira(sp) seems to indicate that; it will be by far the most cartoony of the Ultimate books yet.

I'm sure it will sell well, and probably break 100k an issue. But I am also pretty sure that it will be a mostly different 100k people than are buying the book now.

[Titan Slade]

Not unless marvel is trying to drastically change the direction of the book. Which may very well be their intention.
I'm sure it will sell well, and probably break 100k an issue. But I am also pretty sure that it will be a mostly different 100k people than are buying the book now.

It was Marvel's intention to go in a different direction as Millar and Hitch's Ultimates run, hence the polar opposite new(and better)creative team. And with the legendary Joe(Uncanny X-Men)Madureira on art, you are looking at a book that will sell well above 100K per issue.

[RocketBoy]

It was Marvel's intention to go in a different direction as Millar and Hitch's Ultimates run, hence the polar opposite new(and better)creative team. And with the legendary Joe(Uncanny X-Men)Madureira on art, you are looking at a book that will sell well above 100K per issue.

Are you contradicting me or quoting me? The tone seems to indicate contradiction, but you are merely reiterating some of my pionts with slightly more emphasis.

Though frankly, you sound like a bit of a flaming fanboy to say "better creative team" when we haven't even seen a single issue yet. That would be like me saying right now that Brubaker and Lark are a better creative team for Daredevil than Bendis and Maleev. Maybe they will be; we'll have to wait to make the call on that.

[willustrator]

Am I the only person in the world who loves both Hitchy and Mads artwork??? I gotta say Im hugely impressed by the sketches featured in Wizard, much moreso than the Hom cover.

[Will.S]

Am I the only person in the world who loves both Hitchy and Mads artwork??? I gotta say Im hugely impressed by the sketches featured in Wizard, much moreso than the Hom cover.
No you aren't the only person who can accept both art styles.

I don't know why anyone would hate Joe's art as I see nothing fundamentally wrong with it but I can understand if it's too drastic a change in style for people used to Hitch. Joe's art looks more grounded and realistic in those sketches than most of his other work so I wouldn't expect it to hit alot of cartoonish strides.

Artists are flexible in that they can change or tweak their style according to the stories told.

[Titan Slade]

That would be like me saying right now that Brubaker and Lark are a better creative team for Daredevil than Bendis and Maleev. Maybe they will be; we'll have to wait to make the call on that.

Brubaker and Lark are the better creative team. Brubaker is the better writer and Lark is the better artist over Bendis and Maleev ;) .

[protonik]

You guys complaining about howJeph and Joe are going to ruin the originality of Ultimates... there is NOTHING original about the Ultimates. I read it the first time in Youngblood by Rob Liefeld and Eric Stephenson...

Extreme violence... check
Government run supergroup... check
Toppling third world dictators... check (Hassan Kussein)
Reviving a WWII era Supersoldier... check (Prophet)
Exploring the fame that comes with being a superhero... check (Shaft subplot from 6-10 and vol. 2)
Creating a Supersoldier Program to create a superpowered army... Check (Diehard program)
Government conspiracies... check (Secretary GRaves)
Pop Culture references... check (too many to mention)
Analgoue characters... check (too many to list)
Less than noble yet still heroic characters... check (ditto)
Core concept altered to be more generic by a hot writer... check (Alan Moore's Teen Titans version of Youngblood)

There are more examples but I don't think I need to type them. I am not saying that Ultimates is a rip off either or that Youngblood is better, just saying... it isn't as original as you might think.

[Cayman]

You guys complaining about howJeph and Joe are going to ruin the originality of Ultimates... there is NOTHING original about the Ultimates. I read it the first time in Youngblood by Rob Liefeld and Eric Stephenson...

Extreme violence... check
Government run supergroup... check
Toppling third world dictators... check (Hassan Kussein)
Reviving a WWII era Supersoldier... check (Prophet)
Exploring the fame that comes with being a superhero... check (Shaft subplot from 6-10 and vol. 2)
Creating a Supersoldier Program to create a superpowered army... Check (Diehard program)
Government conspiracies... check (Secretary GRaves)
Pop Culture references... check (too many to mention)
Analgoue characters... check (too many to list)
Less than noble yet still heroic characters... check (ditto)
Core concept altered to be more generic by a hot writer... check (Alan Moore's Teen Titans version of Youngblood)

There are more examples but I don't think I need to type them. I am not saying that Ultimates is a rip off either or that Youngblood is better, just saying... it isn't as original as you might think.

Thank you, that's very enlightening.

Cay

[Sabrinaset]

I remember more than a few people saying that Wieringo would be a horrible, much-too-cartoony artist for the FF, and yet, the Waid/Wieringo run was right up there with Lee/Kirby and Byrne. Give the new team a chance, guys. They may well be the best thing to hit the Ultimates yet.

[Titan Slade]

You guys complaining about howJeph and Joe are going to ruin the originality of Ultimates... there is NOTHING original about the Ultimates. I read it the first time in Youngblood by Rob Liefeld and Eric Stephenson...

Extreme violence... check
Government run supergroup... check
Toppling third world dictators... check (Hassan Kussein)
Reviving a WWII era Supersoldier... check (Prophet)
Exploring the fame that comes with being a superhero... check (Shaft subplot from 6-10 and vol. 2)
Creating a Supersoldier Program to create a superpowered army... Check (Diehard program)
Government conspiracies... check (Secretary GRaves)
Pop Culture references... check (too many to mention)
Analgoue characters... check (too many to list)
Less than noble yet still heroic characters... check (ditto)
Core concept altered to be more generic by a hot writer... check (Alan Moore's Teen Titans version of Youngblood)

There are more examples but I don't think I need to type them. I am not saying that Ultimates is a rip off either or that Youngblood is better, just saying... it isn't as original as you might think.

Great example, good job on one-upping the fanboys :D . Who would have ever thought that Millar would ever stoop to ripping off Liefeld, but he did ;) .

[Viking Bastard]

You guys complaining about howJeph and Joe are going to ruin the originality of Ultimates... there is NOTHING original about the Ultimates. I read it the first time in Youngblood by Rob Liefeld and Eric Stephenson...
The originality isn't only in the concept, but in it being done well.

[Titan Slade]

The originality isn't only in the concept, but in it being done well.

I do have to agree that Millar's version of Youngblood(Ultimates) is better than Liefeld's version ;) . And don't forget that before Millar started on the Ultimates for Marvel, he wrote all those un-published scripts for he and Liefeld's scrapped Youngblood series. So maybe the Millar/Hitch Ultimates is what Millar had in mind for his defunct Yougblood project.

[THE OG GL]

Extreme violence... check
Government run supergroup... check
Toppling third world dictators... check (Hassan Kussein)
Reviving a WWII era Supersoldier... check (Prophet)
Exploring the fame that comes with being a superhero... check (Shaft subplot from 6-10 and vol. 2)
Creating a Supersoldier Program to create a superpowered army... Check (Diehard program)
Government conspiracies... check (Secretary GRaves)
Pop Culture references... check (too many to mention)
Analgoue characters... check (too many to list)
Less than noble yet still heroic characters... check (ditto)
Core concept altered to be more generic by a hot writer... check (Alan Moore's Teen Titans version of Youngblood)

most concepts have been done to death in fact i am hard pressed to find any truly original books but this does not chage the fact that it is well writen and the is art freeking amazing!

[RocketBoy]

Brubaker is the better writer and Lark is the better artist over Bendis and Maleev ;) .
Ahh, now I see; flame bait is your pleasure. Though personally, I do enjoy Brubaker's writing more these days.

I'm not sure I understand the business rationale behind this Ultimates move. Ultimates is the highest selling comic in the Ultimate line, based on numbers at the moment. So I think, if you were going to pull stunt casting to boost sales, it would be more wise to assign a less controversial but still popular team to The Ultimates, keep the sales numbers where they are now, and put Loeb and Madureirieiria on the currently lowest selling ultimate on-going title: Ultimate Spider-man.

[Titan Slade]

most concepts have been done to death in fact i am hard pressed to find any truly original books but this does not chage the fact that it is well writen and the is art freeking amazing!

This is true. The Millar/Hitch Ultimates is great, as will the Loeb/Madureira Ultimates be great ;) .

[Beast]

most concepts have been done to death in fact i am hard pressed to find any truly original books but this does not chage the fact that it is well writen and the is art freeking amazing!
Well, that's because there's only a small number of original story archtypes. I think I recall it was like 27. So of course everything has been done before, it's been done before for centuries. It's just the execution of the concept. :)

[Will.S]

I'm not sure I understand the business rationale behind this Ultimates move. Ultimates is the highest selling comic in the Ultimate line, based on numbers at the moment. So I think, if you were going to pull stunt casting to boost sales, it would be more wise to assign a less controversial but still popular team to The Ultimates, keep the sales numbers where they are now, and put Loeb and Madureirieiria on the currently lowest selling ultimate on-going title: Ultimate Spider-man.
Well here's the thing.

Any other writer short of probably Warren Ellis would still be scrutinized because Millar set the bar so high. Mark Millar doesn't want to do a volume 3 because he wants to end it on a high note but Marvel (being Marvel) isn't going to stop publishing the book. They were going to hire a new creative team for the Ultimates anyway seeing as how keeping it ongoing is what they do and it sells very well every month.

I think it's a ballsy move on their part and I think my interest of the title post Millar has shot up alot, just because I want to see how this creative team will handle such a flawed band of characters and if they intend to build them up or keep them roughly the same but in a different setting.

[RocketBoy]

It's funny, I didn't piece this together until just now, But if you look at various things Quesada has said recently, I think it painted a picture of what we could expect for Ultimates3.

First, while speaking of the Ultimate Universe's intended kid-friendliness, Quesada offered this (http://www.newsarama.com/JoeFridays/JoeFridays15.html)...
Now, is Ultimates suitable for a six-year old? Well perhaps not most six-ear olds and that’s somewhere were we may have misfired...
He does go on to explain why he feels that 'misfiring' may be justified, and also heaps praise on Millar and Hitch earlier in interview. I get the impression that Quesada personally really likes Millar's work, but much like when Millar left Ultimate X-Men, I believe they will take the first opportunity to young down the book. (I personally feel that is one motive behind Maduriera).

And then I also remembered reading this (http://www.buzzscope.com/features.php?id=1093) in the Charlie Huston, Moon Knight interview (this is Huston paraphrasing Quesada)...
The first pitch went well, and they really liked it, and the only thing they were kind of hedgy on – and it was more Joe than anybody else, although I'm really glad in the end that he did it – was that he felt that the bad guys, I was working with the government as the bad guy, and he said that Marvel's trying to get back more to its superhero roots and get away from all the government intrigue and the weird government institutions and get back to the capes and tights. He wanted to know it there were any super-villains... that could work in more of a classic superhero kind of bad guy background.
This was spoken directly regarding the upcoming Moon Knight series, but it also does seem like a broad editorial directive. And if this is also their goal for the ultimate universe, and not just 616, it would seem to go against some major aspects of The Ultimates that many now know and love. So a question remains; if they remove those aspects from The Ultimates, what is left?

[Will.S]

It's funny, I didn't piece this together until just now, But if you look at various things Quesada has said recently, I think it painted a picture of what we could expect for Ultimates3.

First, while speaking of the Ultimate Universe's intended kid-friendliness, Quesada offered this (http://www.newsarama.com/JoeFridays/JoeFridays15.html)...Now, is Ultimates suitable for a six-year old? Well perhaps not most six-ear olds and that’s somewhere were we may have misfired...

That's an interesting quote.

It seems like Joe's trying to appeal as many markets as he can but knowing The Ultimates more adult type of situations and characters, it was in a way, a kind of neccessary risk to get to where the title is today. Perhaps he thinks the title will do better going into a less politically driven and a slightly more marketable way but I don't neccessarily see that as a bad thing at least not yet.


He does go on to explain why he feels that 'misfiring' may be justified, and also heaps praise on Millar and Hitch earlier in interview. I get the impression that Quesada personally really likes Millar's work, but much like when Millar left Ultimate X-Men, I believe they will take the first opportunity to young down the book. (I personally feel that is one motive behind Maduriera).

And then I also remembered reading this (http://www.buzzscope.com/features.php?id=1093) in the Charlie Huston, Moon Knight interview (this is Huston paraphrasing Quesada)...
The first pitch went well, and they really liked it, and the only thing they were kind of hedgy on – and it was more Joe than anybody else, although I'm really glad in the end that he did it – was that he felt that the bad guys, I was working with the government as the bad guy, and he said that Marvel's trying to get back more to its superhero roots and get away from all the government intrigue and the weird government institutions and get back to the capes and tights. He wanted to know it there were any super-villains... that could work in more of a classic superhero kind of bad guy background.
This was spoken directly regarding the upcoming Moon Knight series, but it also does seem like a broad editorial directive. And if this is also their goal for the ultimate universe, and not just 616, it would seem to go against some major aspects of The Ultimates that many now know and love. So a question remains; if they remove those aspects from The Ultimates, what is left?
I don't think they're removing the character's personalities if that's what you mean. It's more of a shift from their current settings of having to answer for the government which admittedly is going kind of strong in Marvel all over with S.H.I.E.L.D. having ties to alot of events and stuff like that.

If you think about it, they've been fighting each other way more than they have with supervillains like the Chitauri and Loki (who's a backround schemer). It seems like they're going to try to break away from the infighting and keep them together as a unit to do what they were intended to do as individuals and not as pawns to a government.

I'm really interested to see where Millar ends it and how they pick up the pieces from that to start in the new direction. Jeph Loeb seems to get the characters judging from what he said in the newest Wizard so I don't think they'll be acting way off base.

[protonik]

I do have to agree that Millar's version of Youngblood(Ultimates) is better than Liefeld's version ;) . And don't forget that before Millar started on the Ultimates for Marvel, he wrote all those un-published scripts for he and Liefeld's scrapped Youngblood series. So maybe the Millar/Hitch Ultimates is what Millar had in mind for his defunct Yougblood project.

Uhhh, no. Ultimates was well into being published for over a year before Liefeld even approached Millar. Bloodsport and Ultimates have NOTHING in common unless you mean that Ultimates is about an over the hill superteam trying to recapture its glory in a kill or be killed, Battle Royale (Manga) sort of way. The plot of Bloodsport is that an interdimensional coalition has decided to form a superteam to protect the multiverse and Graves has gathered together all the previous members of Youngblood in the Arcade/Awesome Universe to fight each other to the death. The winner gets a multi-billion dollar contract and a spot on the roster of the multidimensional Youngblood that Graves will run. Bloodsport has HARDLY been scrapped and will eventually see print. If you have seen the first issue you will know why it is taking so long to release, Rob is pulling out all the stops on the book. Like I said though, Ultimates started BEFORE Bloodsport and IN FACT, it was the similarities between Youngblood and Ultimates and Millar's excellent work on The Authority that prompted Liefeld to contact Millar about doing a YOungblood story. Look at the timeline and read the interviews...

Jason

[jboncha]

There is an article about this in Wizard magazine #168.
MAD!'s artwork looks very promising.
I'd really love to be able to have that drawing of Cap that he did for the first page of the article as my desktop.




J B

[Steve]

There is an article about this in Wizard magazine #168.
MAD!'s artwork looks very promising.
I'd really love to be able to have that drawing of Cap that he did for the first page of the article as my desktop.




J B
I like his Black Widow.

Check here (http://comicsimpulse.blogspot.com/).

[jboncha]

I like his Black Widow.

Check here (http://comicsimpulse.blogspot.com/).
Thanks but I was referring to that drawing of Cap throwing his shield thats in color.
That pic's bad ass




J B

[Will.S]

Thanks but I was referring to that drawing of Cap throwing his shield thats in color.
That pic's bad ass




J B
The link I posted a few pages back has it but for the lazy:

www.joemadfan.com

[Steve]

Thanks but I was referring to that drawing of Cap throwing his shield thats in color.
That pic's bad ass




J B
Aw shucks. Maybe someone will post it since the JoeMadFan site is now shut down.

I remember him drawing Cap back during the Onslaught crossover. Pretty good.

[Steve]

Ah, here ya go.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Madjoy/joemadfansite/images/Page_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Madjoy/joemadfansite/images/Cap_1.jpg

[Will.S]

Damn, I didn't know that dude's website went down.

It's a shame, it was really starting to become it's own with some nice designs and a really good gallery there. Odd how most Maduerira sites go down after a while. Anyway there you go thanks to Steve.

I didn't even notice this until someone brought it up but Mad's Captain America looks exactly like the Marvel Legends "mix up" Ultimate Cap figure in which they mixed the parts for the traditional Cap and the Ultimate version.

[jboncha]

Thanks for the pic.
Sucks about the line in the middle but beggers cant be choosers.
Maybe I can do something about it in Paintshop.





J B

[Steve]

Damn, I didn't know that dude's website went down.
It's back up now.

[THE OG GL]

Damn, I didn't know that dude's website went down.

It's a shame, it was really starting to become it's own with some nice designs and a really good gallery there. Odd how most Maduerira sites go down after a while. Anyway there you go thanks to Steve.

joemadfan has been longest running. its really a great site

[Magneto_X]

You do realize that Loeb's ongoing DC titles sell over 100K per issue as well, and he is a constant on Wizard's top 10 writers list every month. Loeb is as big a name writer as anybody in the business right now and his Batman with Jim Lee sold over 100K every issue as well as his Superman/Batman does with Ed McGuiness, Mike Turner, and Carlos Pacheco, as the artists. Loeb and a big name artist like Joe Mad on an Ultimate title will outsell the Millar/Hitch Ultimates, because Joe Mad was and is a bigger name artist than Bryan Hitch is or ever has been and Hitch is great, but he is no Madureira. And before anybody drops the book without even reading the Loeb/Madureira stuff, you will be missing out big time I guarantee.

Loeb, is that you? :)

[Magneto_X]

Who would have ever thought that Millar would ever stoop to ripping off Liefeld, but he did ;) .

Only Millar did a better job of executing it.

How is Youngblood: Bloodsport these days, anyway? Is #2 released yet?

[Magneto_X]

It was Marvel's intention to go in a different direction as Millar and Hitch's Ultimates run, hence the polar opposite new(and better)creative team. And with the legendary Joe(Uncanny X-Men)Madureira on art, you are looking at a book that will sell well above 100K per issue.

The problem is that they may as well call the book something else entirely if they're not even going to follow the title's concept.

Keeping the name will only *insult* Ultimate fans, not make them stick around.

[Magneto_X]

Well here's the thing.

Any other writer short of probably Warren Ellis would still be scrutinized because Millar set the bar so high. Mark Millar doesn't want to do a volume 3 because he wants to end it on a high note but Marvel (being Marvel) isn't going to stop publishing the book. They were going to hire a new creative team for the Ultimates anyway seeing as how keeping it ongoing is what they do and it sells very well every month.


Marvel could hire creators who could keep the title similar in nature to Millar/Hitch's run but its clear they're only keeping it for the $$$$. Which will drop off after a few months anyway.

[Tony Starkz]

It was Marvel's intention to go in a different direction as Millar and Hitch's Ultimates run, hence the polar opposite new(and better)creative team. And with the legendary Joe(Uncanny X-Men)Madureira on art, you are looking at a book that will sell well above 100K per issue.

That's the biggest joke I've ever heard.

[drpblunt]

Joe Mad:

"There are definately going to be some slight -- and some not-so-slight -- visual changes to the characters. I want to take the characters a little closer to their 'traditional' costumes, and make them look more like comic book superheroes and less like film superheroes. That said, this book is huge for Marvel, so I'm sure they aren't going to want me monkying around with it too much!"

Jeph Loeb:

"Probably a little less political satire --Mark does that better than anyone -- and a little more superhero actiony, which I think folks expect of me."

More in tomorrow's issue of Wizard.

GHAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BAH!! Blunt SMASH puny crative team!! Blunt want good writer and good artist, puny anime art man BLUNT WILL SMASH!!!!!!!
ok, glad i got that off my chest, gawd that was cathartic

[Korinthian]

One could ask himself if whoever's in charge at Marvel does not recognize a winning concept when he sees it.

Let's hope it is not action without a supporting story, so the characters just don't fight because the theme of the issue is a 'Gunman versus Swordman'.

[Reggie]

Yes, I'm wondering why marvel put this team on the Ultimates.

Do they feel it needs more exposure?

Have they got more plans for the book? Or do they want to give Mad a nice but safe way to re-enter the world of comicbook drawing.

And does this thread need to be merged with the Joe Madureira and Jeph Loeb on Ultimates vol 3. (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=104885) thread?

See it all next time on:
"LET MARVEL SHOCK YOU!"

[X-Men Forever]

Yes, I'm wondering why marvel put this team on the Ultimates.


Look at the sales numbers on Loebs stuff and look at the sales numbers on Joe Mad's stuff, they are phenominal numbers. When the Loeb/Madureira Ultimates run starts it will be the #1 selling monthly Marvel comic book. Marvel is trying to sell comics, and with the giant industry names Loeb and Madureira have made for themselves over the years, Ultimates will be this fall's huge buzz book.

[Korinthian]

But at the cost of what? Hopefully they will not stray too far from the concept that is Ultimate.

[X-Men Forever]

But at the cost of what? Hopefully they will not stray too far from the concept that is Ultimate.

At the cost of Marvel raking in the money from their #1 selling property.

[Skute]

Look at the sales numbers on Loebs stuff and look at the sales numbers on Joe Mad's stuff, they are phenominal numbers. When the Loeb/Madureira Ultimates run starts it will be the #1 selling monthly Marvel comic book. Marvel is trying to sell comics, and with the giant industry names Loeb and Madureira have made for themselves over the years, Ultimates will be this fall's huge buzz book.

Isn't it already like one of the best selling books?

[X-Men Forever]

Isn't it already like one of the best selling books?

Yes it is. But some are stating that Loeb and The Mad man are some how going to be the death of one of Marvel's best selling titles, and on the contrary, they will not only keep it one of Marvel's top sellers, but make it even a better seller than it already is.

[Korinthian]

At the cost of Marvel raking in the money from their #1 selling property.

I think you missed my point entirely. Also, your reply made very little sense.

[X-Men Forever]

I think you missed my point entirely. Also, your reply made very little sense.

I did not miss your point at all. I understand that you were talking about Loeb and Madureira's Ultimates not being much like the Millar/Hitch stuff and that being a bad thing. But my point is that their replacements are great creators as well, and should not have to photocopy the former creators styles on their run to make it just as high quaity.

[Korinthian]

Okay, good. But not quite.

I'm not saying Millar/Hitch is the forever paramount, the new guys could very well be better. However, I dread them making it all into an alternate universe of the 616. Not knowing much about comic book authors, when I hear "I'm gonna make it more actiony!", I get nervous. A fight is nothing without a build-up and an aftermath, I just hope the next author realizes this.

[Tony Starkz]

More traditional costumes?What the heck JoeMad???Don't fix it if it's not broken damnit.

[drpblunt]

Okay, good. But not quite.

I'm not saying Millar/Hitch is the forever paramount, the new guys could very well be better. However, I dread them making it all into an alternate universe of the 616. Not knowing much about comic book authors, when I hear "I'm gonna make it more actiony!", I get nervous. A fight is nothing without a build-up and an aftermath, I just hope the next author realizes this.

i really dont think so, if his ultimates is anything like the crap he pawned off on DC readers recently (see:supergirl) the book is gonna be one pointless fight after another, heavy on pointless action and light on real story, and i agree the title is gonna sell like hotcackes at 1st but in the long run i think it'll die on the vine a lot quicker than millar/hitch's run, my prediction, this joe mad guy is gonna flake out on his art duties (see:"muliple guest artist by issue 4) and loeb's weakness are gonna be exposed really early on.

then hopefully we'll get warren ellis