LSH 9 (spoilers

[Robin3]

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This issue just pisses me off. I'm on the Brainiac side. Basically, Waid has decided that Cos is the better leader and is setting up B5 to fail on the first go, while showing some scenes that show Cosmic boy as a great charismatic leader.

Rokk (Cosmic boy) had his turn. It's someone else's turn. But since this is a Cosmic-boy-is-the-one-and-only-true-leader-of-the-legion issue, I imagine everything will be back to normal, and the "evil" brainiac 5 will be forced to sulk away.

bah.

[The Adventurer]

First rule of comics, never antisipate, because you'll most always be wrong.

Waid could easily be setting up Cos to fail, or die.

Or finaly come to the realisation that maybe, just maybe Brainic and Cos need to, I don't know, work together, because they both have their leadership talents.

[thehod]

Does anyone know when Kitson is planning to draw another full issue, or are we stuck with fill in artists?

[Paul Newell]

Does anyone know when Kitson is planning to draw another full issue, or are we stuck with fill in artists?
The next issue...He lost time working due to the death of his grandmother.

[thehod]

The next issue...He lost time working due to the death of his grandmother.

Absolutley fair enough, in that case.

I did wonder whether it was something along those lines, as Kitson has never struck me as someone who struggles with deadlines.

[miss5050]

dunno but imo there will be huge walkover into new story
relationships like brainy/cosmic boy allways get messed up on finale...

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think, by the time the dust settles, neither Cosmic Boy nor Brainiac 5 will be leading the Legion...

[titanfan]

We don't know if Braniac is really failing. It's only Cos's opinion that Brainy is doing it wrong. Seems like *both* of them are ignoring Invisible Kid, the one who seems to have a plan to win the day.

[miss5050]

exactly, new factor will come
and my money are on invisible kid too ;)

[kartik]

the art really bothered me these past 2 issues. In this one there was a scene (where ultraboy was apologizing) where the speech bubbles seemed to have been mixed up. Can't wait till kitson comes back

[Ontir]

One thing that still rumbles around in my brain, is Waid's statement that the Legion is "indie rock," and when a Legionnaire becomes too mainstream, he's gone. I'm wondering if Cos has hit the too mainstream, and is going to be replaced. I wouldn't be surprised if a few Legionnaires moved on after what I expect will be the death of Invisible Kid, and that the remaining Legionniares, which I'm sure will include Brainy, pull together, re-focused by their losses, and the neccessities of the new political landscape.

[Killer Frost]

I predict there will be a new leader within six months, give or take, and that Cos himself (if he's still breathing) will be the one to call for the first election. There really aren't too many qualified candidates to choose from - Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad, Sun Boy, maybe Phantom Girl, and (a long shot) Karate Kid. Triplicate Girl lost any chance she had because of her skullduggery. Brainy's more valuable sticking to his labwork.

Personally, I'd like to see Sun Boy get the job next.

[Sir Tim Drake]

I think Mark actually demonstrated why Cos is worthy of being our leader, rather than just using authorial fiat to claim that he deserves to be. That speech was pretty inspiring.

This was not my favorite issue. I, too, miss Barry a lot. I can't wait for #10.

My favorite moment in the issue, though, was Ayla saying that she knew all of those boys in "various ways." After the bleakness and constant crisis of the past few issues, I needed a little sexual innuendo.

[Gaz]

I like the idea that Invis could be the dark horse in this leadership battle, he's seeing the big picture, acting instead of reacting. Even Brainy seems to be working on a damage control basis, and seems to be throwing out Cos's tactics in spite of their effectiveness, tossing the baby out with the bathwater as it were.
And the 2nd best letter column in comics! (Sorry, guys, C&DP's is better) Retconning continuity complaints, genius!

[Sean Whitmore]

I wouldn't be surprised if a few Legionnaires moved on after what I expect will be the death of Invisible Kid,


Come now, how's he gonna lead the team if he's dead? ;)


SEAN

[Forsaken_One]

I think Mark actually demonstrated why Cos is worthy of being our leader, rather than just using authorial fiat to claim that he deserves to be. That speech was pretty inspiring.
To me, though, it was still somewhat out of left field. Up until this issue we've seen Cos as a kingpin kinda character I think; taking information from his various informants, attempting to placate the UP, breaking into other people's labs (by the way, the answer to "who's permission would I need" is "Brainiac's"), and so on. I don't even recall him being a field leader, as I remember it's mostly been other Legion members duking it out and talking to him afterwards. Then, after eight issues of this, he suddenly shows off that he's both a field leader and a true charismatic leader? Kinda weird. I don't think it's some kinda of weird writing ploy to show him as better than Brainiac, Waid had scores of chances to do that, but it doesn't seem in keeping with his actions of the previous eight issues.

[Gaz]

To me, though, it was still somewhat out of left field. Up until this issue we've seen Cos as a kingpin kinda character I think; taking information from his various informants, attempting to placate the UP, breaking into other people's labs (by the way, the answer to "who's permission would I need" is "Brainiac's"), and so on. I don't even recall him being a field leader, as I remember it's mostly been other Legion members duking it out and talking to him afterwards. Then, after eight issues of this, he suddenly shows off that he's both a field leader and a true charismatic leader? Kinda weird. I don't think it's some kinda of weird writing ploy to show him as better than Brainiac, Waid had scores of chances to do that, but it doesn't seem in keeping with his actions of the previous eight issues.
I think it's more because he delegates. He lets Brainy do the research and projections, Projectra is the bankroll, and he's the politician and general. That means he comes off as an ass sometimes, because he does things that are unpopular in the short-term to keep the peace long-term.

[Paul Newell]

Don't forget that the Legion has already been around for a yera, maybe two years, already. That's a lot of stuff we haven't seen yet. A lot could have happened in that time to turn Rokk from "a field leader and a true charismatic leader" to "a kingpin kinda character".

Maybe we're seeing the reasons why he became Legion leader now...And its the qualities that could have been gradually "hidden" since the beginning of his tenure.

[Gaz]

Don't forget that the Legion has already been around for a yera, maybe two years, already. That's a lot of stuff we haven't seen yet. A lot could have happened in that time to turn Rokk from "a field leader and a true charismatic leader" to "a kingpin kinda character".

Maybe we're seeing the reasons why he became Legion leader now...And its the qualities that could have been gradually "hidden" since the beginning of his tenure.
Right! He could have been ground down by the politics and PR crap to the point that the micromanagement took the place of the movement in his mind.

[Forsaken_One]

No argument against those theories here. I'm just saying, based on just reading the last nine books, that this is a drastic shift in a very short amount of time. That there could be reasons for this given later doesn't change the fact that it's a drastic shift.

[Shellhead]

To me, though, it was still somewhat out of left field. Up until this issue we've seen Cos as a kingpin kinda character I think; taking information from his various informants, attempting to placate the UP, breaking into other people's labs (by the way, the answer to "who's permission would I need" is "Brainiac's"), and so on. I don't even recall him being a field leader, as I remember it's mostly been other Legion members duking it out and talking to him afterwards. Then, after eight issues of this, he suddenly shows off that he's both a field leader and a true charismatic leader? Kinda weird. I don't think it's some kinda of weird writing ploy to show him as better than Brainiac, Waid had scores of chances to do that, but it doesn't seem in keeping with his actions of the previous eight issues.

I admit that the charismatic speech was unexpected, but Cosmic Boy's tactical skills and field leadership have been on display since the first issue of this run. When he leads the team into battle, Cos is very effective at coordinating the teamwork and getting maximum use out of people's abilities. To get people to react to orders in the field without question requires some solid leadership skills... maybe he does it with charisma, but more likely just with drill sergeant shouting ability.

Brainiac has lead two missions, one to Dream Girl's homeworld and one to his own. In both cases, he kept his teammates in the dark, ran off on his own, and seemed frustrated that he had to tell his teammates what to do instead of being able to just directly wield their powers for them. Keep him in the lab and let Cos lead the field missions.

Invisible Kid probably has the gimmick to pull out a victory in the battle next issue, but he isn't even remotely close to becoming team leader. His introvert personality is completely wrong for it, and he has been on the team for a fairly short time.

[Ontir]

Come now, how's he gonna lead the team if he's dead? ;)

Maybe he'll be Kid Spectre!

I just have no use for Lyle what-so-bloody-ever!

[Gaz]

Maybe he'll be Kid Spectre!

I just have no use for Lyle what-so-bloody-ever!
That's his problem, ironically. He has a good, workable idea to stop bloodshed, and no-one wants to listen.

[UniqueFrequency]

i don't know about the rest of you, but Cos's speech really came off as weak and scripted, for the exact reason that the Legionnaires said: that he's saying all this bs, but leaving himself too. Gotta say i didn't enjoy this issue that much.

[Gaz]

i don't know about the rest of you, but Cos's speech really came off as weak and scripted, for the exact reason that the Legionnaires said: that he's saying all this bs, but leaving himself too. Gotta say i didn't enjoy this issue that much.
So he wants to be able to see his family as opposed to cutting off all contact with them indefinitely? What a horrible person! Caring about his dying father and worried mother and brother!

[Robin3]

The problem is, Waid made that stupid speech and the "you and you and you" scene to push Cos as the "true leader" and that angers me, especially when Brainiac hasn't even really had a chance to assume command. If it follows standard plot lines, then we can expect either Brainiac 5 to bow out (unlikely) or the legion will say, "Oh, we were so wrong. we'll follow you forever, Cos."

This is the first B5 we've had in a long time that's been really assertive, even aggressive about attaining his ends. It's obvious that even though Waid created him, he didn't really like him, because he made him lose his cool in that situation on Colu.

Personally, I can handle a little emotionality here and there more than I can outright unethical behavior, ala Cos and his snoop-slut Triplicate Girl. Cos was losing it well before B5 took over and made the field mistakes we see will lead to Cos's upcoming Shining Moment(TM)

[UniqueFrequency]

So he wants to be able to see his family as opposed to cutting off all contact with them indefinitely? What a horrible person! Caring about his dying father and worried mother and brother!

well no, not that way. but he WAS showing a pathetic example of leadership.

[Gaz]

The problem is, Waid made that stupid speech and the "you and you and you" scene to push Cos as the "true leader" and that angers me, especially when Brainiac hasn't even really had a chance to assume command. If it follows standard plot lines, then we can expect either Brainiac 5 to bow out (unlikely) or the legion will say, "Oh, we were so wrong. we'll follow you forever, Cos."

This is the first B5 we've had in a long time that's been really assertive, even aggressive about attaining his ends. It's obvious that even though Waid created him, he didn't really like him, because he made him lose his cool in that situation on Colu.

Personally, I can handle a little emotionality here and there more than I can outright unethical behavior, ala Cos and his snoop-slut Triplicate Girl. Cos was losing it well before B5 took over and made the field mistakes we see will lead to Cos's upcoming Shining Moment(TM)

At least Cos gives a damn about how his people feel and get on. Brainiac is that guy who tells you what to do, and gets mad when you show the slightest deviation from what he decided you should do it like. He's on a purely intellectual level, and I couldn't deal with someone like that.

[Forsaken_One]

At least Cos gives a damn about how his people feel and get on. Brainiac is that guy who tells you what to do, and gets mad when you show the slightest deviation from what he decided you should do it like. He's on a purely intellectual level, and I couldn't deal with someone like that.
And I'd rather have an arrogant prick who gets things done and tells the people he commands how he feels straight up as a leader than a Machiavellian manipulating politician who belittles the people he commands behind their backs.

[Gaz]

And I'd rather have an arrogant prick who gets things done and tells the people he commands how he feels straight up as a leader than a Machiavellian manipulating politician who belittles the people he commands behind their backs.
Ah, so you prefer Cos too! :p
(And "gets things done"? Brainy's been failing miserably in leadership, and was even before the coup.)

[Shellhead]

The problem is, Waid made that stupid speech and the "you and you and you" scene to push Cos as the "true leader" and that angers me, especially when Brainiac hasn't even really had a chance to assume command. If it follows standard plot lines, then we can expect either Brainiac 5 to bow out (unlikely) or the legion will say, "Oh, we were so wrong. we'll follow you forever, Cos."

This is the first B5 we've had in a long time that's been really assertive, even aggressive about attaining his ends. It's obvious that even though Waid created him, he didn't really like him, because he made him lose his cool in that situation on Colu.

Personally, I can handle a little emotionality here and there more than I can outright unethical behavior, ala Cos and his snoop-slut Triplicate Girl. Cos was losing it well before B5 took over and made the field mistakes we see will lead to Cos's upcoming Shining Moment(TM)

I disagree about Brainiac. We've already seen him lead two different missions, plus part of a third, so far.

The first mission, Brainiac quickly ditches the team, leaving them to fight some super-cops, and runs off to investigate a theory that he has developed about the situation. His theory proves correct and the Legion is victorious, leaving behind a planetful of youngsters suddenly dealing witha traumatic reality.

The second mission, to Brainiac's homeworld, he once again leaves his teammates in the dust as he goes off on his own to chase down an idea. While his quick thinking (and the powers of his teammates) save the day again, what teamwork took place only happened because his teammates chased after him.

So far the third mission, Brainiac's first apparent effort to stay with his teammates and order them about in battle, looks like a disaster. He knows his teammates powers, but he doesn't trust them to use them except under his direction, negating all of their own experience.

Face it, Brainiac has a brilliant mind, but no leadership skills.

[Forsaken_One]

Ah, so you prefer Cos too! :p
(And "gets things done"? Brainy's been failing miserably in leadership, and was even before the coup.)
Frankly we haven't seen either of them do that well at the leadership thing. I think you're going with Cosmic Boy primarily because of the previous incarnations of him, which I know next to nothing about. Neither of them, however, have done well in this series; let's count.

(Issue 1) Cos is so busy playing politics than he hesitates on letting the legion save a bunch of "underagers" from getting killed, braniac doesn't show up. Not much leadership to speak of, but he does get off his ass in the end.

(Issue 2) We've had Brainiac go off and try to change Dream Girl's world, which wasn't a great show of his teamwork.

(Issue 3) Then we got Cos send Triplicate Girl out to learn more about the members through manipulation and lies.

(Issue 4) After that we have Braniac not telling Cos about Invisible Kid's father and Cos going off the handle, with neither of them being able to save the day in the end. Invisible Kid had to do that.

(Issue 5) The real enemy shows up and is defeated due Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl (Cos's forces), and Lone Wolf (Brainiac's choice, against Cos's wishes) being there. Their supposed leadership skills had jack to do with that, though their choices on who goes there did. In this case they'd be pretty much even as the situation wouldn't have been the same without any of them.

(Issue 6) Cos then tries to manipulate Princess Projectra into giving him more money for the Legion and then her world is destroyed before anyone can do anything; not much leading going on there.

(Issue 7) Then Brainiac goes to his homeworld because of his own intelligence when speaking to Lemnos and lives because of his own intelligence, Light Lass' quick thinking, and Dream Girl's suggestions. Again, more a team effort than leadership. Meanwhile Cos sneaks into brainy's lab because Brainiac might be keeping secrets, and the Legion isn't allowed to do that unless they're called Cosmic Boy apparently.

(Issue 8) Cos apparently thinks he accomplished something by breaking into Braniac's lab during the last issue, then he goes off on a rant about how useless everyone is. Braniac broadcasts this to everyone. Cos gets angry at Brainiac and his solution to the legion split is "Okay, everyone follow whoever you feel like." Real good solution that, right?

(Issue 9) Cosmic Boy decides, as important as the Legion is to him and as much as he feels Brainiac is going to fail miserably, he should go home since they're closing their boarders. He then makes a rousing speech to the various Legion-wannabes outside the HQ talking about how if they go home they're abandoning the Legion's principles, like the girl who's going to go home to work in the Mudfields. Of course he's going back to work in the mine apparently but hey, we can ignore that for the purposes of this speech, right? Right? Meanwhile Brainiac is apparently showing his lack of field experience (according to Cos) and every bloody legion member out there is a prick who's unwilling to listen to Invisible Kid's comments.

So yeah, so far Brainiac's been on two missions, neither of which had any real leadership from him. Cosmic Boy's been on no direct missions and his leadership skills consist of being a spymaster, either manipulating people to give him information or manipulating people to give him money. Plus he made a rousing "do as I say, not as I do" speech before attempting to abandon not just the Legion but the UP and all hope of surviving Lemnos's forces. And now Brainiac's on his third mission but we aren't sure how it's going.

Frankly if I'm with anyone I'm with Invisible Kid. But, given the choice between the two of them, I'd probably go with the guy who tells me straight out what he wants me to do than the guy who attempts to manipulate me into doing that.

[Gaz]

Frankly we haven't seen either of them do that well at the leadership thing. I think you're going with Cosmic Boy primarily because of the previous incarnations of him, which I know next to nothing about. Neither of them, however, have done well in this series; let's count.


Wrong.
I'm as new to this series as you.
I just hate people like Braniac who tell you to do something and then decide that you're incompetent and do it themselves, before you even start.
Leadership requires a balance between trust, compassion and distance. Brainy has that last one down pat, but neither of the others due to his assumed superiority.
And once more, Cos wants to go see his dying father before he loses that ability. Even with war brewing, can you blame him?
Frankly, I'd take Invis, KK or Saturn Girl over either of them.

[Forsaken_One]

And once more, Cos wants to go see his dying father before he loses that ability. Even with war brewing, can you blame him?Yes. Abandoning all your friends to a life-threatening situation under what you consider unfit leadership, cutting off all ties to the universe at large, and basically leaving the battle? His seeing his father won't make his father live any longer as far as I can tell, it won't somehow magically make him better or any of that. He'll just be there for comfort. His being there for his friends, however, could save their lives and make them live a hell of a lot longer. So, comforting family but not affecting the length of their life or saving his friend's lives and possibly the lives of billions of people by stopping Lemnos?

Yeah, I can blame him quite easily.

Frankly, I'd take Invis, KK or Saturn Girl over either of them.Here, here! Though I consider Saturn Girl a bit of a b****.

[Michael P]

I'm starting the campaign right now: Invisible Kid for Legion Leader!

[Robin3]

I think this version of Invisible Kid is a little punk. But my main thrust is with Cos

I dont' think that it's the leader's job to be a Father Figure. People ask for that too much, and they get surprised when the leader actually does what he's supposed to: serve the needs of the organization.

However, as much as Brainy's field command has been criticized here, note that Cos never left his office in the first place.

I imagine that whomever Projectra picks to follow will win the team. Cos courted her support earlier, but he also kept her off of field missions, when she wanted to participate. She may feel bitter about that now that her whole planet has been destroyed, and she could do nothing.