Knock it Off,Rich!

[comicartfan]

Come on now. You seem to have a genuine love for comics, as do most of the folks here at this website. Yet, When you start announcing cancellation dates or issue numbers going to be cancelled, you are KILLING the sales on these books. For good or bad, You have an enormous influence on people buying these books, just like wizurd magazine. I don't care if it is a comic by John Byrne or Slappy White, Your article is detrimental to the sales of this book.If you Do consider yourself a journalist, then show some responsibility and print these "anonymous sources" anymore.

[MrBeebs37]

Worrying about sales is the job of creators and publishers, not columnists and fans. We're consumers and that's all we really need to worry about. They pay people handsomely at DC to worry about how many issues of whatever gets sold where ever. They don't pay us anything so buy what you like, tell other people about it if you like it that much, and enjoy it while it lasts.

You know what else affects sales? People stating negative opinions about work they have negative reactions to. Should we stop that too? Are you going over to Steven Grant's message board and telling him to like everything he writes about? Probably not.

Would you prefer that fans of the book be told that there will be on more book for them to be fans of in the letter column of the last issue?

Rich, keep fans informed about the things publishers aren't telling us, both good and bad. It's nice to be informed and not treated like a child.

[Verity]

Actually it's Byrne's inability to attract new readers or even hold onto his old ones that's killing this book according to the sales figures.

As for the reporting when I read about the possible demise of a series I'm on the fence about, I'm more likely to add it to my pull list.

Isn't it allways the reporting of a possible cancellation that leads to efforts to save the series?

V.

[Michael P]

Come on now. You seem to have a genuine love for comics, as do most of the folks here at this website. Yet, When you start announcing cancellation dates or issue numbers going to be cancelled, you are KILLING the sales on these books.
If a book's cancelled, then sales on future issues would be pretty moot, wouldn't it?

In any case, his announcements usually come about a week at most before the official announcement comes out in the solicits.

[comicartfan]

Actually it's Byrne's inability to attract new readers or even hold onto his old ones that's killing this book according to the sales figures.

As for the reporting when I read about the possible demise of a series I'm on the fence about, I'm more likely to add it to my pull list.

Isn't it allways the reporting of a possible cancellation that leads to efforts to save the series?

V.

Re-Read my post.This has nothing to do with Byrne, and this isn't the first time that Rich has posted about upcoming cancellations.

[outlander78]

If a book is in fact cancelled, then telling us about it is hardly harmful. It doesn't hurt creators - they are already out at a given time - and if it hurts the publisher who cancelled a book, who cares? If they decided to end a series, it is unfair to sell issues to buyers under the false premis that the series will continue indefinetely. If you already buy it, you probably want to see how it ends, and if you don't, you can start on a different series.

I would feel differently if the creators were impacted, but they aren't. Creator-owned or indy titles are a different matter, but DC and Marvel have few of those.

Telling us that a book is rumoured to be cancelled, or more often that a popular creator is off the title, is a whole different matter. However, that isn't what Rich did here.

[Verity]

Re-read my post comicartfan, I disagree entirely with your view; Rich's rumours leading to the demise of a book is a fantasy believed mostly by the JBF mob.

Rich is unapolegetically pro-comics, frequently pimping under the radar books.

I believe rumours of cancellation galvanises supporters of the project under threat, if anything Rich's favourable post on the quality of BOTD has brought it more favourable online attention than it's creator has in recent months.

A heads up to those who support the book a full year before it's RUMOURED cancellation and major props for it's quality.

So whats the problem?

V.

[comicartfan]

If a book is in fact cancelled, then telling us about it is hardly harmful. It doesn't hurt creators - they are already out at a given time -

Here is a quote from Byrne about the subject : "Funny that no one from DC has bothered to mention this to me."

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7431&PN=1&totPosts=35

[Michael P]

Here is a quote from Byrne about the subject : "Funny that no one from DC has bothered to mention this to me."

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7431&PN=1&totPosts=35
Well, that's DC's fault, now isn't it?

[outlander78]

Here is a quote from Byrne about the subject : "Funny that no one from DC has bothered to mention this to me."

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7431&PN=1&totPosts=35

That means that if the rumour is true, the people at DC are terrible at managing their employees. Whether Byrne knows or not, if the series is cancelled, how does telling us harm him?

[comicartfan]

Ultimately it is the fault of this unnamed source of Richs'. If DC is in fact planning on cancelling this book, then let them do it through the proper channels. What I am complaining about is that even if Rich Has the information, It doesn't make it right to post it.

[phicks]

It seems difficult to believe that a decision has been made to cancel Blood of the Demon at #18, when #6 just came out. It is not selling great, but if a decision has been made, why would DC let the book go on another year? When LITG leaked that Doom Patrol was cancelled at #18, #14 had just come out so the timelines seemed to jive. This time, they don't.

And I do agree that rumouring a book will be cancelled will make some people less likely to try it. It wasn't a cancelation, but I would have bought Supergirl if Jeph Loeb had not announced he was leaving DC to work at Marvel exclusively. Why should I buy 2 or 3 issues of Jeph's stuff, just so that the next writer can yank the book in a whole new direction?

Give us good creative teams who will take a book somewhere, and then leave them to do a long run. If Simone and Byrne stayed on Action, it would sell an additional 1,000 copies each month they stayed on. Unfortunately, it has already been announced they are both leaving the book shortly. So why should I try it?

[KevinTBrown]

Actually it's Byrne's inability to attract new readers or even hold onto his old ones that's killing this book according to the sales figures.

As for the reporting when I read about the possible demise of a series I'm on the fence about, I'm more likely to add it to my pull list.

Isn't it allways the reporting of a possible cancellation that leads to efforts to save the series?

V.Gee, I guess those Action Comics that sold out pretty much defeat your point there....

[MrBeebs37]

I don't understand why anyone that is a fan of a given book would want to have information that affects their purchasing habits with-held from them. If the book is getting canceled, I want to know. If a creator is leaving earlier than hoped for, I want to know. And I don't mind knowing earlier than the sales-minded people that publish the book want me know. Why wouldn't a consumer want to make as informed a decision as possible?

And if having this informed choice means monetary problems for a creator, so be it. Not my concern. I buy books to enjoy them not to protect creators from financial ruin. If creators want this sort of concern, they should be ready to give it back by telling me, the reader, things that might affect how I use my finances. But they don't, because that's not their business and that is perfectly acceptable to me.

My commitment to the comic market is to buy things that I like. Anything else creators/companies get from me, like recommendations to other readers or an unspoken commitment to follow their work elsewhere is gravy, not something that I, or anyone else, am required to do.

[The Shadow]

And I do agree that rumouring a book will be cancelled will make some people less likely to try it.
I do too.

If a crossover event like Day Of Vengeance got new readers to try the book and those same new readers liked it I would be willing to bet they wouldn't stick around if they knew the book was doomed. Why invest the time, money and energy on a book that's dead anyway?

[JeffreyWKramer]

That means that if the rumour is true, the people at DC are terrible at managing their employees.

More evidence for this: Kurt Busiek noted on a thread on CBR's on DCU Forum that at more or less the same time the Manhunter character he created (drawing on the Goodwin/Simonson goodness) for POWER COMPANY was being killed off in the current MANHUNTER book, he'd been talking to DC editorial folk about doing a story with the character for JSA CONFIDENTIAL. Clearly, some folk aren't communicating real well there.

[KevinTBrown]

One thing to note: As with JLA Confidential, the JSA version does not mean the stories are taking place in current continuity. The stories can take place at any time.

[JeffreyWKramer]

One thing to note: As with JLA Confidential, the JSA version does not mean the stories are taking place in current continuity. The stories can take place at any time.

True, but doing an arc about an obscure character who is dead in current continuity is probably not a genius marketing decision. Busiek did, however, note that he could fairly easily justify that particular character coming back to life.

[Verity]

KevinTBrown posted:

Quote:
"Gee, I guess those Action Comics that sold out pretty much defeat your point there...."

Gee I guess the fact that the only Byrne book not dropping readers like flies ain't plotted, written, inked and doesn't even look as if it was pencilled by him does!

Wait, what's your point?

Looking back on it Byrne's fans should be happy with Rich's piece, up until now Byrne has said that DC only committed to 12 issues.

If Rich is right, they've another 6 issues they didn't know about to rave over!

V.

[comicartfan]

Looking back on it Byrne's fans should be happy with Rich's piece, up until now Byrne has said that DC only committed to 12 issues.
If Rich is right, they've another 6 issues they didn't know about to rave over!
V.


Another quote by Byrne: "You can "face" whatever you like, but if you are interested in the truth you might want to pay a little more attention to what I say, rather than what you get from someone reporting rumors.
One more time: There has been no decision on the fate of BLOOD. None. Nada. Zip. Nil. Nought. "

And Another : "My commitment to BLOOD is open ended. Always has been"

If Byrne is correct , Then Rich and his inside source are both wrong.

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7431&PN=1&TPN=4

[Verity]

Byrne is incorrect Comicartfan, the only commitment he's posted about recieving from DC for Demon is 12 issues, he has'nt posted anything suggesting he's been given an extension.

Any suggestion by Byrne to the contrary is a case of him attempting to retcon reality.

His open ended commitment means nothing except that he can chose to can the book before DC do as he did with LABrats.

V.

[deadbeat76er]

Another quote by Byrne: "You can "face" whatever you like, but if you are interested in the truth you might want to pay a little more attention to what I say, rather than what you get from someone reporting rumors.
One more time: There has been no decision on the fate of BLOOD. None. Nada. Zip. Nil. Nought. "

And Another : "My commitment to BLOOD is open ended. Always has been"

If Byrne is correct , Then Rich and his inside source are both wrong.

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7431&PN=1&TPN=4

Yeah, but apparently DC don't tell Byrne when things are being cancelled do they? So there's every chance Rich, and his source, is right about BOTD being scheduled for cancellation.

[comicartfan]

Byrne is incorrect Comicartfan, the only commitment he's posted about recieving from DC for Demon is 12 issues, he has'nt posted anything suggesting he's been given an extension.

Any suggestion by Byrne to the contrary is a case of him attempting to retcon reality.

His open ended commitment means nothing except that he can chose to can the book before DC do as he did with LABrats.

V.
How do you know this?

[Verity]

Because Comicartfan whenever Byrne starts insulting his own fans and shortly locking threads thereafter it usually turns out they're right and Byrne wrong:

Today on the JBF thread you linked to, Byrne responded to a fan who pointed out that Byrne had only mentioned a 12 issue commmitment:
"Keith Elder: And I seem to remember JB saying something about a 12 issue commitment to BOTD...
*****
Then your memory is broken. I suggest you get it fixed, or possibly stop commenting on things you "seem" to remember.
My commitment to BLOOD is open ended. Always has been."

Here's what Byrne actually said when he started Demon:
http://24.72.59.163/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2348&KW=12+issues+commitment&PN=0&TPN=3
"Unfortunately, because I am so far ahead I will still
run out of work before the end of the year, the
monthlies being 12 issue commitments from DC,
which we will not know are renewed until some time
around when the 6th issues of each is published --
Nov-Dec for DOOM PATROL and July for BLOOD"

And later to re-iterate the 12 issue commitment, he now denies and castigates a fan for remembering, Byrne posted:
http://24.72.59.163/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2701&KW=12+issues+commitment
"12 issues is normal. Dan is giving DOOM PATROL
and extra vote of confidence by guaranteeing 18
before we have even seen where the sales are
going to land."

So Comicartfan, up until Rich's piece Byrne had only posted specifically about standard 12 issue commitments to Demon (though he now denies it!), if Rich is right Byrne and his fans can rejoice in a 6 issue extension!

V.

[dancj]

If you Do consider yourself a journalist, then show some responsibility and print these "anonymous sources" anymore.

Just a small point - Rich has always gone out of his way to point out that he's not a journalist. (except for that 6 week trial a few weeks back)

[Emerald Ghost]

I support Rich entirely.

The man is one of the most thoughtful people I've heard of in the comic writers business. If he posted something, I have no doubts at all that he did it for the right intentions.

[Matt]

Speaking as just another fan and not an Admin of these forums ... LITG is my favourite column here at CBR. It's informative and has opened my eyes up to a lot that happens in the comic book industry which I was previously unaware of.

I hope Rich keeps on doing what he's doing and never stops.

And where else can I get the latest about the various aspects of my preferred reading material? Wizard? That'll be the day...

[reillyd]

To be fair, has a title ever been doomed by one of Rich's columns that wasn't dying an inevitable death? I can't think of one that wouldn't have otherwise bit the dust.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I'm gonna hate to see Blood of the Demon get cancelled. I think this was Byrne's best work in years. Maybe it was having Will Phieffer there to help him. Who knows....but this was pretty solid.


I have no clue why some would say an Internet writer has power over thousands and thousands of fans in comic stores. Look...not everyone goes online. They don't control the general fan. So...to say Rich is killing Blood of the Demon is a pretty huge stretch to take.

[Calamas]

Why invest the time, money and energy on a book that's dead anyway?. . . It wasn't a cancelation, but I would have bought Supergirl if Jeph Loeb had not announced he was leaving DC to work at Marvel exclusively. Why should I buy 2 or 3 issues of Jeph's stuff, just so that the next writer can yank the book in a whole new direction?
Same answer. Because it is good. Because it entertains you.

Who cares if Loeb is leaving Supergirl. If you like Loeb’s work, you have 3, 4, 5--whatever--issues of his work. If you don’t like the next writer, don’t buy it. Loeb’s work still stands. Be it 1, 5, or 50 issues, good is good. Why cheat yourself?