Could the JLA have lobotomized the Joker . . .

[Rod G]

. . . instead of Dr. Light due to the events of Identity Crisis?

Responses please.

[Metamorpho]

I don't think I understand. Dr Light invades the satellite and rapes Sue Dibny so.........the JLA hunts down the Joker and lobotomizes him? :confused:

[Mulett]

I don't think I understand. Dr Light invades the satellite and rapes Sue Dibny so.........the JLA hunts down the Joker and lobotomizes him? :confused:

He raped her? Is there a direct reference to that in the story or is it something you have inferred? Quite an adult them for a JLA story, isn't it?

[Gingold]

He raped her? Is there a direct reference to that in the story or is it something you have inferred? Quite an adult them for a JLA story, isn't it?

Um..it's shown on panel.

[Rod G]

My point is,if it had been the Joker (granted Sue would have ended up with
the infamous "Joker Grin" on her face),would the JLA have done to him what they did to Dr. Light?

[Joseph Sun]

Dr. Light didnt rape her. He almost did. Thats why he was mind wiped. So he would forget all about her.

And I think they would of killed the Joker had he tried to rape sue. Or atleast Batman would of.

[Donald M.]

Dr. Light didnt rape her. He almost did. Thats why he was mind wiped. So he would forget all about her.


There's no "almost" about it.

They mind-wiped him because he threatened to do it again, to someone else's wife (or daughter, or sister).

[Joseph Sun]

Nah he threatened to try again because he didnt suceed the first time. (I could be wrong, but Im pretty sure Im not)

[Metamorpho]

I was under the impression that Light did the deed and was boasting that he could do it again to her as well as other heroes loved ones. And yes I think they would've ATTEMPTED to mindwipe the Joker had it been him instead of Dr Light but it may have been a bit more difficult considering the Joker's disordered mind to begin with.

[powergirl]

Dr. Light didnt rape her. He almost did. Thats why he was mind wiped. So he would forget all about her.

And I think they would of killed the Joker had he tried to rape sue. Or atleast Batman would of.
i disagree... he shot and crippled babs and then stripped her and took photos.... you think bats might have killed him then?

[El Castigador]

i have the comic in hand and he clearly does indeed rape sue and then later produce a hologram of the events to the leaguers who stop him and threatens to do the same to the rest of their familly members like barrys wife, since he sees a weeding ring bulge under flashs glove

[Sandy Hausler]

. . . instead of Dr. Light due to the events of Identity Crisis?

Responses please.

A number of years ago, in one of those books of Joker short stories (text, not comics), there was a story about a psychiatrist at Arkham who decides to lobotomize (for real, not whatever the JLA did to Dr. Light) the Joker.


S

P

O

I

L

E

R

The poor guy ended up being lobotomized by the Joker.

Anybody remember the author or the title of the story?

Sandy Hausler

[Joker2503]

i disagree... he shot and crippled babs and then stripped her and took photos.... you think bats might have killed him then?

Seriously, if Batman hasn't killed the Joker yet, he never will. And if anyone else ever does, Bats would be PISSED that he didn't get to do it.

Had it been the Joker instead of Dr Light, I'm pretty sure Hawkman would have maced him right there. Batman teleports back in and sees the Joker with a mace caving in his skull and flips out. He isn't so much pissed that the Joker is dead, just that he wasn't the one to do it. Basically, its a twist on the Joker's death in DKR.

Just a sidenote on The Killing Joke, although its never stated or even hinted at, I've always believed the Joker raped Barbara after he shot her.

[Sk8maven]

Just a sidenote on The Killing Joke, although its never stated or even hinted at, I've always believed the Joker raped Barbara after he shot her.You can believe anything you like, but the rest of us tend to agree that if the author says he didn't - and Moore DOES say that - then he didn't.

Besides, rape is much too straightforward for the Joker's twisted mind. Not that he'd care if anybody THOUGHT he did! :eek:

Maven

[Dreadstar]

You can believe anything you like, but the rest of us tend to agree that if the author says he didn't - and Moore DOES say that - then he didn't.

Besides, rape is much too straightforward for the Joker's twisted mind. Not that he'd care if anybody THOUGHT he did! :eek:

Maven

Actually, it's much more likely that he raped commissioner Gordon, later in the book.

[Dreadstar]

Seriously, if Batman hasn't killed the Joker yet, he never will. And if anyone else ever does, Bats would be PISSED that he didn't get to do it.

Had it been the Joker instead of Dr Light, I'm pretty sure Hawkman would have maced him right there. Batman teleports back in and sees the Joker with a mace caving in his skull and flips out. He isn't so much pissed that the Joker is dead, just that he wasn't the one to do it.


B.S. Batman is tied up in his twisted form of heroism to ever take a life. He wouldn't be pissed that he didn't get to do it, he'd be pissed that someone did it at all.

More's the pity, in my mind.

[Rod G]

A lobotomized Joker?


Is it possible?

[Sharcque]

Dr. Light didnt rape her. He almost did. Thats why he was mind wiped. So he would forget all about her.

And I think they would of killed the Joker had he tried to rape sue. Or atleast Batman would of.
Did you read the same book as everyone else? Sue Dibney was raped!

[Joker2503]

You can believe anything you like, but the rest of us tend to agree that if the author says he didn't - and Moore DOES say that - then he didn't.

Ahh, I never knew the Moore flat-out said that the Joker didn't rape Barbara. In that case, the Joker didn't rape Barbara. Period.

[Smarty Jones]

"Just a sidenote on The Killing Joke, although its never stated or even hinted at, I've always believed the Joker raped Barbara after he shot her."

It's not The Joker's M.O. He's always been presented as an archetype for psychotic behavior, and crippling a person for opening a door and taking pictures of her naked to taunt his pursuers is in his nature.

Sexual assault or sexual deviancy (as what was alluded to what some think The Joker did to Commissioner Gordon) doesn't make sense. If anything, "The Killing Joke" showed The Joker was devastated over the death of his wife and unborn child, and in his mind such an act could be seen as a violation of such sanctity.

As for "Identity Crisis," JSun, Dr. Light raped Sue Dibny. From the ripped portion of her spandex to Dr. Light getting up off her and seemingly adjusting his tights to the other graphic nature and images, I cannot see how in the world you can conclude otherwise.

[literally exaggerated]

While I don't necessarily think the Joker raped either Gordon. However, I disagree with the notion that he is somehow "above" rape.

It is true that the Joker is a delusional psychotic almost without a sexuality (as WW put it). But what he does enjoy is hurting, frightening, and humiliating others. And rape is among the most effective ways to do that.

Its why so many fans (and people in general) find it so repellant. It robs a person or character of their dignity. A character can be killed, even tortured, and still avoid the humiliation factor generally brought on by rape (not to say that being raped *should* be seen as humiliating, just that the victims are, in nearly every case, filled with profound shame). Rape is the ultimate violation, and it robs a character of their self-respect in a way very few other crimes would.

If the Joker raped one of the Gordons, or any one else, it wouldn't be to get off on it, or even as a demonstration of power (as it so usually is). It would be precisely because of the fact that it so completely robs a person of their dignity. It is humiliating, and psychologically hurtful in precisely the way that the Joker would consider a grand old joke. "Ha ha ha, look, Commissioner Gordon (or anyone else) can't even face himself in the mirror because he feels so violated and shamed by the fact that I raped him". Pure hilarity in the mind off the Joker.

The Joker is not classy people. He does not have standards beyond the sickest sense of humor in the world, one which demands a certain degree of grand sadism. That precludes rape for sex or power, but as a tool of psychological torture? Well within his capabilities. He is no more above it than he is above any crime that he could make part of a joke.

[Gingold]

I'm pretty sure the Joker is saving himself for Batman.

[spaldingclan]

I'm pretty sure the Joker is saving himself for Batman.


Dude thats messed up, but funny, but messed up.

[bannermanonemillion]

Getting back to the point....

If the JLA had done that, I think the Joker would have snapped back a lot sooner than Light did. And that's assuming it worked the first time. The Joker's mind is a psychic minefield. J'onn tried to force the Joker to think sanely (Rock of Ages) and lasted only a few minutes before he had to let his mind go.

It'd make for an interesting story but I don't see it working for long or ever.

[Joker2503]

I don't think that the Joker would be anti-rape. In DKR, after he beats up Catwoman (and makes her wear a Wonder Woman costume?!?), Selina tells Batman, "Don't take the girl. He'll..."

I've always filled in the "..." with "rape her." I say this because, for one, it was left out. There isn't really a reason why Selina wouldn't have said, "He'll kill her," but rape is somewhat of a hinted-at-but-not-directly-stated things in comics. Look no further than the fact that we're arguing about whether or not Dr Light and the Joker are rapists. Secondly, Selina said, "the girl," not "Robin." I don't recall her ever giving Batman a warning about taking Dick or Tim into battle.

[The Joker]

My point is,if it had been the Joker (granted Sue would have ended up with
the infamous "Joker Grin" on her face),would the JLA have done to him what they did to Dr. Light?

If thats the question, then yes. I'm 99.9% sure they would have treated The Joker much the same. Why should the JLA discriminate?

If the JLA had done that, I think the Joker would have snapped back a lot sooner than Light did.

I agree.

[Michael P]

I don't think it would have been wise. Mucking about with a mind as unstable as the Joker's would be like playing hopscotch in a minefield.

[Sabrinaset]

I think it was written in an interview somewhere that Rags drew the "rape" scene in such a way that it was possible to argue either way whether Sue was raped or not. Or maybe I'm delusional.

Do someone have a link as to where Moore says Barbara was not raped?

[Guts/Batman]

B.S. Batman is tied up in his twisted form of heroism to ever take a life. He wouldn't be pissed that he didn't get to do it, he'd be pissed that someone did it at all.

More's the pity, in my mind.

I agree with this post.

Batman said it best in Batman 644 this week: "And that is why I keep trying. But I have never taken it on myself to decide who lives and who dies."

[The Joker]

I don't think it would have been wise.

And as it eventually turned out, performing a lobotomy on Dr. Light wasnt very wise either.

[Sandy Hausler]

I don't think it would have been wise. Mucking about with a mind as unstable as the Joker's would be like playing hopscotch in a minefield.

Which is why he should just plain be killed.

And now that I think of it, since Jason Todd is apparently alive (I don't read the Batman books (he's such a jerk), but that's what I gather), why doesn't he kill him. Maybe he could team up with Barbara Gordon, now that she can walk.<g>

Sandy Hausler

[Sandy Hausler]

And as it eventually turned out, performing a lobotomy on Dr. Light wasnt very wise either.

Of course, who knows what Light would have done if they hadn't tinkered with his mind.

Sandy Hausler

[The Joker]

Of course, who knows what Light would have done if they hadn't tinkered with his mind.

Sandy Hausler

As the old saying goes,

"Damned if you do. Damned if you dont."

[Metamorpho]

Hawkman was right. He should've just caved the bastards head in and been done with it.

[bannermanonemillion]

Hawkman was right. He should've just caved the bastards head in and been done with it.

Sad thing is, if that happened you can bet that Neron (or someone) would have brought him back but the head injury would have left him retarded and he'd blame the JLA! We'd be back to square one!!