I hate, despise, and loathe Joss Whedon (Here's Why!) [Archive]

Deathstroke

08-19-2005, 07:43 PM

I try to avoid his stuff.

I avoided Buffy. (For 5 seasons. Then I was bored and caught the repeat of "The Gift" on the last ever Buffy on The WB. I've been hooked since.)

This led to Angel (Extension of my Buffy attachment)

Then came Firefly (Okay, by this time I didn't try to avoid, but dove right in)

Now I haven't read a regular X-Men Title (New X-Men: Academy X doesn't count, it's The New Mutants with a gussied up title) in more than 10 years.

Joss Whedon takes on Astonishing X-Men. (I ignore it, cause I don't read regular X-titles.)

I had my Couch Potato Review column and I did giveaways for it. I bought the first trade collection of Astonishing X-Men to do one of my giveaways but my column ended before I got around to doing it.

So it's been sitting on my shelf for awhile now.

I knew today was going to be a slow day at work since the bosses were out of town. On impulse I grabbed the trade just to read and roll my eyes at.

I should've freaking known better!

Damn you Joss Whedon...aka The Devil's Spawn! Now I want more!

I've spent so much money on Whedon product I think he owes me a tumble at this point.....LOL!

I'm so pathetic.
So I'll be getting the second trade now......

JLarson

08-19-2005, 07:50 PM

The second story arc is much, much weaker than the first, in my opinion.

Although, I thought the first was kinda just treading water.

Titan Slade

08-19-2005, 08:45 PM

The second story arc is much, much weaker than the first, in my opinion.

Although, I thought the first was kinda just treading water.

I agree. Average stories, with astonishing art carrying the series.

JLarson

08-19-2005, 08:48 PM

I agree. Average stories, with astonishing art carrying the series.

I'd almost say that Cassaday is what's keeping the title afloat.

Beast

08-19-2005, 08:49 PM

The second story arc is much, much weaker than the first, in my opinion.

Although, I thought the first was kinda just treading water.
Agreed again. I think the first storyarc was only so well accepted because it brought back Colossus. But it's definatly superior to the second storyarc on so many levels.

*Beast, who can't help wonder how long before this thread goes south.*

mattbib

08-19-2005, 08:51 PM

I saw the trailer for Whedon's new movie today (Serenity or something?). No idea what it's about but it looks fun. :)

Beast

08-19-2005, 08:52 PM

I saw the trailer for Whedon's new movie today (Serenity or something?). No idea what it's about but it looks fun. :)
If you saw Firefly, it's that on a grander scale. ;) :D

mattbib

08-19-2005, 08:55 PM

If you saw Firefly, it's that on a grander scale. ;) :DNope, never watched it. I wasn't sure if this was the Firefly movie or not because the word 'Firefly' wasn't mentioned or included in the title.

Beast

08-19-2005, 08:57 PM

Nope, never watched it. I wasn't sure if this was the Firefly movie or not because the word 'Firefly' wasn't mentioned or included in the title.
I assume they're not mentioning it, because they want to draw a bigger audience. Which means they probably recap the TV series, or deal with a different aspect of it or something. I've never seen it either, considering snagging the DVD.

Faded

08-19-2005, 11:35 PM

I really didn't like Cassaday's art, or Whedon's plots, or the characters being used (except Emma). What keeps me buying is the interaction and dialogue.

Doom Hammer

08-19-2005, 11:44 PM

I don't care what anyone says, the first arc of this book was amazing. Almost all of you said as much when it comes out, and I'm calling no backsies.

jetter_cheeze

08-20-2005, 01:29 AM

*Beast, who can't help wonder how long before this thread goes south.*

Always the pessimist, aye?

I hate Whedon because he keeps making buy an X-book. ( I also dislike Millar for that as well, and BKV in the ultimate sense.)

Headhunter

08-20-2005, 02:23 AM

Agreed again. I think the first storyarc was only so well accepted because it brought back Colossus. But it's definatly superior to the second storyarc on so many levels.
I actually hated his return, but enjoyed everything else...

The Dosadi Experiment

08-20-2005, 02:37 AM

It's a decent series, but it's nothing spectacular.

The story, interesting, bult ultimately we've seen it all before, the structure of the first arc was also dissapointing as nothing from the first arc was resolved, the main story didn't end properly or convincing, and a fair share of the subplots tied directly to the main story were dropped when the second arc began. The subplots that weren't tied directly to the main plot seem to have been forgotten as well.
The first story-arc isn't even half a story, and the frustrating part is that with the second storyline practically completed, we're left with a rather redundant run thus far.

The art is capable, but I'm not a fan of how Cassaday is so dependant on leaving out backgrounds. If you took away the colours, you'd end up with large surfaces of nothing but white.

The humour and interaction are the only things genuine, and of those two the comedic aspect seems awkwardly outdated, not because it's old-fashioned, but because we've seen the same type of wittiness and dialogue in so many seasons of Buffy and Angel.

GoGo Yubari

08-20-2005, 02:54 AM

I like it. I think it's fun. It's not good enough for me to buy anymore, but there are certain things, especially in the first arc, that made it my favorite X-Book (above all else some of the lines Emma Frost gets) for that period.

The second arc... eh. It's okay. Readable. But not that great.

Twigglet

08-20-2005, 03:05 AM

I think the second arc is still great, much better than most of the other X-stuff being produced at the moment.

Deathstroke

08-20-2005, 06:21 AM

*Beast, who can't help wonder how long before this thread goes south.*

If it goes south in the thread, I'll ask Brian to lock it, or he'll do it on my own.

My post was meant to be funny because I get drawn in by everything Whedon does no matter how hard I try to fight it.

Negativity can go take a long walk off a short pier.

Deathstroke

08-20-2005, 06:23 AM

Man, when Kitty Pryde told Emma she was late because she was putting on ALL her clothes, I about busted a gut.

Headhunter

08-20-2005, 07:04 AM

I keep waiting for Whedon to re-assemble his Buffy/Angel/Firefly writing staff for an extended comics run/universe aside from TV spinoffs.

Man, when Kitty Pryde told Emma she was late because she was putting on ALL her clothes, I about busted a gut.
Hah, me too!

BTW, when did Kitty get a DRAGON? Couldn't her pet take out most of the X-Men 1-on-1?

Christopher O

08-20-2005, 07:39 AM

BTW, when did Kitty get a DRAGON? Couldn't her pet take out most of the X-Men 1-on-1?
About twenty years ago, and, yeah, he probably could take out most of the X-Men in a one-on-one fight.

The Lucky One

08-20-2005, 08:34 AM

I don't care what anyone says, the first arc of this book was amazing. Almost all of you said as much when it comes out, and I'm calling no backsies.

I'll call it the exact same thing I said when it came out- it's good. It's not the second coming, it's a good story with a lot of fun character interaction, but some stuff that's not as well done. 10 years from now, it will be remembered as a good story, and as Colossus's return. Not as the high point in the history of the X-Men, just a good story. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
:)

-D

stealthwise

08-20-2005, 10:01 AM

It's fun, but I'm regretting not getting the second arc in trade format. Mostly because nearly all Marvel books read better in trade it seems.

Fastballspecial

08-20-2005, 11:19 AM

The second story arc is much, much weaker than the first, in my opinion.

Although, I thought the first was kinda just treading water.

I agree it seem to weaken after the first arc. I think they just got bogged down being behind. The last 6 issues arent as good as the first 6 unless 12 blows my doors off.

xakko

08-20-2005, 12:13 PM

It's fun, but I'm regretting not getting the second arc in trade format. Mostly because nearly all Marvel books read better in trade it seems.

I wonder if this is a potentially fatal problem of "writing for the trades". Yes, it adds a revenue stream for the company, but how many of us realize that in the current style of story lines, nearly all books are better in the trades, and sales of the individual magazines plummet?

"Dangerous" has seemed slow at times, but when I read a bunch of them in order, I am definitely entertained more.

Shadow Crawler

08-20-2005, 12:17 PM

Man, when Kitty Pryde told Emma she was late because she was putting on ALL her clothes, I about busted a gut.
That and Kitty telling Emma that when she thinks of evil, Emma's is the face she sees are my two favorite parts of the first arc.

xakko

08-20-2005, 12:22 PM

That and Kitty telling Emma that when she thinks of evil, Emma's is the face she sees are my two favorite parts of the first arc.

We had that wonderful thread about the funny lines from Astonishing a while back, but there were so many good ones...

Kitty's (very real and serious) reaction to Emma teaching ethics was also a highlight. And Kitty's speech about if Colossus was some sort of villain making her twist she would kill him she would kill him with an ax...

My favorite was the return of my favorite character. Go fig.

Deathstroke

08-20-2005, 05:05 PM

That and Kitty telling Emma that when she thinks of evil, Emma's is the face she sees are my two favorite parts of the first arc.

Oh yeah, "I can smell you..."

That was pretty funny as well.

I'd LOVE to see that scene in a movie someday.

onetruejp

08-20-2005, 06:47 PM

I assume they're not mentioning it, because they want to draw a bigger audience. Which means they probably recap the TV series, or deal with a different aspect of it or something. I've never seen it either, considering snagging the DVD.

Not much to recap. War vets (from the losing side) pilot around a busted ship running smuggling jobs. Pick up some passengers, namely a young doctor on the run with his little sister, who was taken by the government and experimented on, mysteriously. She's an autistic assassain now. So they're on the run from being caught and trying to figure out what's going on.

And like so much of Whedon's work, the draw comes not from his plotting which is usually simple, and, when boiled down, kinda silly. It's the characters and dialogue that sell it. He's got a good ear for what makes characters and universes believable and engaging. So, no one's really going to nitpick that, yes, Buffy has to protect her sister (who's really a matrix of energy that unlocks a hell dimension formed into a little girl by some monks) from a vain hellgod who needs to suck out people's brains or else she loses her grip on sanity. For that season, you just believe it.

ultramandingo

08-20-2005, 07:14 PM

Man, when Kitty Pryde told Emma she was late because she was putting on ALL her clothes, I about busted a gut.

he says he got the idea to have a girl-teen-hero on" buffy" from kitty so he probably gives her all the good lines. i hate him cus he has big feet , baggy pants and a creepy red nose.......or is that clowns i hate?

JLarson

08-20-2005, 07:20 PM

I find that Whedon's overrused "Ubercool Chick" is about as boring to me as Claremont's "Ubercool Woman" thing.

Gaz

08-20-2005, 07:24 PM

I find that Whedon's overrused "Ubercool Chick" is about as boring to me as Claremont's "Ubercool Woman" thing.
Difference is, he has ONE per project, Claremont plays that card with any female that's past puberty.

Shadow Crawler

08-20-2005, 08:02 PM

We had that wonderful thread about the funny lines from Astonishing a while back, but there were so many good ones...

Kitty's (very real and serious) reaction to Emma teaching ethics was also a highlight. And Kitty's speech about if Colossus was some sort of villain making her twist she would kill him she would kill him with an ax...

My favorite was the return of my favorite character. Go fig.
I also loved her reaction to Emma teaching ethics. It was brilliant.

Oh yeah, "I can smell you..."

That was pretty funny as well.

I'd LOVE to see that scene in a movie someday.
I would actually love see any scene that involved Kitty talking to Emma in a movie someday.

Headhunter

08-21-2005, 06:57 AM

So, no one's really going to nitpick that, yes, Buffy has to protect her sister (who's really a matrix of energy that unlocks a hell dimension formed into a little girl by some monks) from a vain hellgod who needs to suck out people's brains or else she loses her grip on sanity. For that season, you just believe it.
I remember quite an uproar about this, actually.

Still think it was a bad idea; Buffy was largely built on the premise that aside from her mother, her support is the surrogate family of Giles, Xander and Willow. Being an only child was a big part of that...

xakko

08-21-2005, 09:58 AM

So, no one's really going to nitpick that, yes, Buffy has to protect her sister (who's really a matrix of energy that unlocks a hell dimension formed into a little girl by some monks) from a vain hellgod who needs to suck out people's brains or else she loses her grip on sanity. For that season, you just believe it.

Buffy's sister is Raven? That's weirder than trying to cram her into Marvel's Summers family

DDM

08-21-2005, 11:05 AM

BTW, when did Kitty get a DRAGON? Couldn't her pet take out most of the X-Men 1-on-1?

Lockheed first appeared in Uncanny X-Men #166; Lockheed's race are the Brood's enemy. Lockheed's species eat Brood for food. He made it to Earth when the X-Men returned from deep space & ate the new Sidri eggs (The Sidri destroyed Xavier's mansion in Uncanny X-Men #154-155). Lockheed helped Kitty defeat the Sidri aliens in Uncanny X-Men #168 & named him "Lockheed." Lockheed's been with Kitty ever since.

Emerald Ghost

08-21-2005, 03:03 PM

There was a prototype Lockheed in Kitty's fairytale too, wasn't there?

And that thread with quotes was mine, I think. What was the name of that? Jeez, once you hit your 20's, it all goes south. After your 30's, life must be over...

Frank

08-21-2005, 03:45 PM

I hate Buffy but I love Astonishing X-Men esp. the first arc. Whatever happened to the Break World storyline anyway and why did he didn`t followed up on that? That was sort-of strange.

Doom Hammer

08-21-2005, 03:55 PM

I hate Buffy but I love Astonishing X-Men esp. the first arc. Whatever happened to the Break World storyline anyway and why did he didn`t followed up on that? That was sort-of strange.

Well, that plot line is still being examined, and there was a rumored SWORD mini written by Joss Whedon to be in the works. It's still up in the air, really.

And why do you hate Buffy?

Frank

08-21-2005, 04:10 PM

And why do you hate Buffy?

I`m a huge horror fan and the few times I tried to watch episodes it was not scary at all, I always ended-up more p*ssed-off than anything else.

I watched the Dracula episode and all was going well and then she kills him like he was a mere rat. THAT made me dismiss the show entirely. She`s what 5 foot 3, 100 pounds? That`s realistic.

What has turned me off the most I think is the lack of realism or rather just accepted laws of the show wich to me weakens the supernatural elements, make it less scary. It`s like "if you can accept that a girl this size can kick ass, you will like the show. If you can accept that Angel lost his soul than came back...then" I mean some of these things on the show are ridiculous but are accepted as part of the scenery and this is where I can`t get into. It`s like the show Charmed where people keep vanishing on a whim. Sure the characterisation may be good but the fact they go around making things happen so easy weaken the concept in my eyes. I just can`t get into that, that some elements may be so "light".

Shadow Crawler

08-21-2005, 04:25 PM

There was a prototype Lockheed in Kitty's fairytale too, wasn't there?
There was a Lockheed in Kitty's Fairytale. It was a big black dragon.

Emerald Ghost

08-21-2005, 04:29 PM

There was a Lockheed in Kitty's Fairytale. It was a big black dragon.

Cool, I knew my memory wasn't gone quite yet. :D

xakko

08-21-2005, 04:29 PM

But, to be sure, that Lockheed was the Blackbird, entering the story in Kitty's own inimitable way... and also where she coined the name for her pet dragon

Bishop_Proudstar

08-21-2005, 04:48 PM

He has really affected "X3"..

Its almost as if he was going to direct...

Hopefully, it will look better in the film..

ultramandingo

08-21-2005, 06:57 PM

Emerald Ghost

08-21-2005, 07:32 PM

try near 40.....and still reading comic books ...looooooooooooser

I also play video games, watch cartoons, and read manga. So what does that make me? :eek:

;)

xakko

08-21-2005, 08:00 PM

I also play video games, watch cartoons, and read manga. So what does that make me? :eek:

;)

my spiritual twin? except for the manga part... i'm reading too many sci fi novels, watching too many cartoons and playing too many video games.

Emerald Ghost

08-21-2005, 08:04 PM

my spiritual twin? except for the manga part... i'm reading too many sci fi novels, watching too many cartoons and playing too many video games.

If you get a chance, PM me, would you? I've read Dune, all Asimov's works just about (which is saying a lot) and of course some star wars and star trek. Can you recommend any really high caliber sci fi? I don't want to disrupt this board, so just PM me. :D

ultramandingo

08-21-2005, 08:10 PM

I also play video games, watch cartoons, and read manga. So what does that make me? :eek:

;)
and you post on some nerdy web site , what a dink........ hey wait'a minute!

goldenarms

08-21-2005, 09:24 PM

You guys aren't alone. From my understanding, the average comic book collector/ reader is male and is in his late 20's to mid 30's. Which probably describes the average poster here, me include.

ultramandingo

08-21-2005, 09:35 PM

my mom thinks im cool.......

Headhunter

08-22-2005, 12:11 AM

Lockheed first appeared in Uncanny X-Men #166; Lockheed's race are the Brood's enemy. Lockheed's species eat Brood for food. He made it to Earth when the X-Men returned from deep space & ate the new Sidri eggs (The Sidri destroyed Xavier's mansion in Uncanny X-Men #154-155). Lockheed helped Kitty defeat the Sidri aliens in Uncanny X-Men #168 & named him "Lockheed." Lockheed's been with Kitty ever since.
Wow, guess it's pretty obvious I don't read a lot of monthlies. Thanks. :cool:

Emerald Ghost

08-22-2005, 03:28 AM

Wow, guess it's pretty obvious I don't read a lot of monthlies. Thanks. :cool:

You haven't read them for 20 years?? Now that is commitment!

Sandy Hausler

08-22-2005, 06:15 AM

Sheldon

08-22-2005, 06:53 AM

He brought back lockheed thats worth some praise.....but he brought Ord from Breakworld and that deserves some mocking....

Deathstroke

08-22-2005, 11:26 AM

Well, it serves you right. You should have learned better after Buffy.<g>

Sandy Hausler

I'd flog myself, but I've learned it's more fun having someone else do it. :evilsmile

Doom Hammer

08-22-2005, 12:14 PM

He brought back lockheed thats worth some praise.....but he brought Ord from Breakworld and that deserves some mocking....

Oh, come on now. How lame is Ord as compared to some other space characters? The Shi'ar? The Starjammers? I know they're cool when done right, but come on. They're way more cliched than Ord.

And Ord wasn't even meant to be some biug, imposing, scary evil guy.

Tobias March

08-22-2005, 12:25 PM

I saw the trailer for Whedon's new movie today (Serenity or something?). No idea what it's about but it looks fun. :)

Off to see this on Wednesday :D Having difficulty converting friends to Firefly actually, I show them the dvd's, most go 'meh'.

I've had more luck showing it to those who previously enjoyed Cowboy Bebop. But that's like preaching to the choir.

However, the 'Gifted', trade is a favourite with whomsoever I give it to. Yes it's very nostalgic. Yes it works as a corrective to the confusion introduced by Morrison (as opposed to meeting it head on....but that wasn't happening and it seems whatever may have emerged from such a confrontation is a moot point, as Morrisonland is being wiped from the Marvel U). Still it is far more accessible to the casual fan of all things X than many attempts in the last...oooh, ten years, possibly more.

ILLUS

08-22-2005, 02:08 PM

I bought the first collected trade and I found it boring. Loved the art and the coloring however the story was kind of lame. What was that dumb alien enemy? Pointless. I don't like Emma as an X Men.

TinMan

08-22-2005, 02:17 PM

I bought the first collected trade and I found it boring. Loved the art and the coloring however the story was kind of lame. What was that dumb alien enemy? Pointless. I don't like Emma as an X Men.

Are you sure you even read it? Cause as I recall it explained who Ord was and why he was on earth. And for future reference "Emma is an X-MAN " X-Men is plural.

steve2275

08-23-2005, 03:09 AM

The second story arc is much, much weaker than the first, in my opinion.
and much much later

steve2275

08-23-2005, 03:14 AM

There was a Lockheed in Kitty's Fairytale. It was a big black dragon.
aka the x mens jet

Shadow Crawler

08-23-2005, 12:31 PM

aka the x mens jet
The question was not "Was the X-Men's jet in Kitty's Fairytale?" though. It was asking about a prototype of Lockheed.

DDM

08-23-2005, 01:05 PM

Oh, come on now. How lame is Ord as compared to some other space characters? The Shi'ar? The Starjammers? I know they're cool when done right, but come on. They're way more cliched than Ord.

And Ord wasn't even meant to be some biug, imposing, scary evil guy.

The Starjammers fought the Imperial Guard; we readers learn that Corsair is Scott's father in the next issue thanks to Phoenix when she's in the middle of saving the universe from the Neutron Galaxy. Ord was defeated by Lockheed. There's no comparison.

G. Wayne

08-23-2005, 02:13 PM

Off to see this on Wednesday :D Having difficulty converting friends to Firefly actually, I show them the dvd's, most go 'meh'.

I've had more luck showing it to those who previously enjoyed Cowboy Bebop. ...

gah, really? haven't heard that comparison yet. i tried, but for the life of me, i just can't get into cowboy bebop. (from what i've seen, pierre le foo was amusing, but other than that the show just bores me to tears.) never got around to watching firefly, just don't watch much tv anymore. i hear good things about the dvd, just haven't gotten around to borrowing it from a friend yet.

agreed on cassaday and his lack of backgrounds. are his other books the same way?

and yeah, wow, completely forgot about the breakworld silliness. maybe the delay in the book was intentional, hoping some would forget about it? ;)