Superman 2

[fields316_2000]

What was the deal with that plastic thing that superman used in Superman 2 that came off his chest? Remember he pulled some plastic piece of wrenalds wrap and threw it at marlon brando and it took care of him..what was the deal with that?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Long story short:

Superman: The Movie was directed by Richard Donner, who had great respect for Superman and his mythology.

Superman II was also being directed by Richard Donner, but he was fired by the producers after he had finished filming around 75% of the movie.

The producers replaced him with Richard Lester, who had never read a Superman comic in his life. Lester re-shot and re-cut much of what Donner had already filmed so that he could officially recieve credit for directing the film, even though the completed film was at least 50% Donner's work.

As a result, Superman II feel wildly inconsisent in places because Lester didn't really know who Superman was, or what his powers were. So, that's why Superman is suddenly shooting energy beams out of his hand and pulling a giant plasticwrap S off his chest.

Other notable changes made to Donner's Superman II were massive changes to the Lois & Clark romance and the removal of Marlon Brando's Jor-El from the movie because the producers wouldn't pay him for the scenes he'd already filmed.

That's why the film cuts away when the now-human and beat up Clark returns to the Fortress of Solitude to try to get his powers back. Originally, the spirit of Jor-El was supposed to appear before his son and sacrifice the last of his energy to restore Kal-El's powers, thereby fufilling a Kryptonian prophecy about The Father, The Son & The Holy Ghost....yep.

[The Shadow]

Wasn't Gene Hackman added in as well... all the Hackman parts were cut from Superman 1 and they couldn't get Hackman back for 2 for some reason... or am I nuts?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Wasn't Gene Hackman added in as well... all the Hackman parts were cut from Superman 1 and they couldn't get Hackman back for 2 for some reason... or am I nuts?

No, Gene Hackman had finished filming most of his scenes for Superman II before Donner was fired, but he did refuse to come back to reshoot scenes for Lester, which is why a body double and a voice over guy doing a horrible Gene Hackman impression had to be used in certain scenes.

[Rob H]

Long story short:

Superman: The Movie was directed by Richard Donner, who had great respect for Superman and his mythology.

Superman II was also being directed by Richard Donner, but he was fired by the producers after he had finished filming around 75% of the movie.

The producers replaced him with Richard Lester, who had never read a Superman comic in his life. Lester re-shot and re-cut much of what Donner had already filmed so that he could officially recieve credit for directing the film, even though the completed film was at least 50% Donner's work.

As a result, Superman II feel wildly inconsisent in places because Lester didn't really know who Superman was, or what his powers were. So, that's why Superman is suddenly shooting energy beams out of his hand and pulling a giant plasticwrap S off his chest.

Other notable changes made to Donner's Superman II were massive changes to the Lois & Clark romance and the removal of Marlon Brando's Jor-El from the movie because the producers wouldn't pay him for the scenes he'd already filmed.

That's why the film cuts away when the now-human and beat up Clark returns to the Fortress of Solitude to try to get his powers back. Originally, the spirit of Jor-El was supposed to appear before his son and sacrifice the last of his energy to restore Kal-El's powers, thereby fufilling a Kryptonian prophecy about The Father, The Son & The Holy Ghost....yep.That makes alot more sense now. Thanks for that.

Just received Superman: The Movie special edition in the mail. Can't wait to get into the special features. :D I love eBay.

[Gaz]

One thing about those features, (if they're similar to the R2 ones) you might find that Stockard Chaning was a better Lois than Kidder...

And why isn't Donner doing X3? (Lauren Donner, the producer is related to him right?)

[lonewolf23k]

The producers replaced him with Richard Lester, who had never read a Superman comic in his life. Lester re-shot and re-cut much of what Donner had already filmed so that he could officially recieve credit for directing the film, even though the completed film was at least 50% Donner's work.

As a result, Superman II feel wildly inconsisent in places because Lester didn't really know who Superman was, or what his powers were. So, that's why Superman is suddenly shooting energy beams out of his hand and pulling a giant plasticwrap S off his chest.

...That has to be the dumbest thing I ever heard of in my life.. :eek: ...Someone who DOESN'T know who Superman is and what he can do? Was that Lester guy some sort of Monk who'd lived in a cave all his life?

...And what the *#%@ were those producers thinking? :mad:

[PatrickG]

Donner has a lot of unused footage and there have been petitions going for years to release Donner's cut.

The latest effort cribbed all of the lost Donner footage from various video releases and TV presentations and a website was freely distributing something as close to a Donner cut as they could before being shut down.

Singer apparently bought Donner's footage (primarily for the Jor-El scenes cut due to Brando's legal threats) and there's some hope that Singer and/or WB will use the footage for a new cut of SUPERMAN II, direct-to-DVD.

[powergirl]

Donner has a lot of unused footage and there have been petitions going for years to release Donner's cut.

The latest effort cribbed all of the lost Donner footage from various video releases and TV presentations and a website was freely distributing something as close to a Donner cut as they could before being shut down.

Singer apparently bought Donner's footage (primarily for the Jor-El scenes cut due to Brando's legal threats) and there's some hope that Singer and/or WB will use the footage for a new cut of SUPERMAN II, direct-to-DVD.
they could also use it for superman returns...

[PatrickG]

They are. The Brando scenes.

But Singer has a lot of footage that probably isn't usable.

BTW, y'know what's scary?

I saw Kevin Spacey as Luthor in the new movie and he looks like a rejuvenated Gene Hackman on a diet.

[powergirl]

They are. The Brando scenes.

But Singer has a lot of footage that probably isn't usable.

BTW, y'know what's scary?

I saw Kevin Spacey as Luthor in the new movie and he looks like a rejuvenated Gene Hackman on a diet.
pics?

it would be interesting if somehow the could ressurected argo city and supergirl for superman returns or the sequel to it..
after all he is going into space to look for other surviving kryptonians to make sure none become a threat to earth right?
and movie canon has supergirl... wonder if he heard about her?

[Theophilus]

There's a throwaway line in Superman 2 that always bothered me. When Supes and General Zod's crew are disappearing and reappearing, Superman says to Lois, "We used to play this game in school." But Superman wasn't raised a Kryptonian, and I seriously doubt Kansas kids can do that.

Never been to Kansas, though.

[powergirl]

There's a throwaway line in Superman 2 that always bothered me. When Supes and General Zod's crew are disappearing and reappearing, Superman says to Lois, "We used to play this game in school." But Superman wasn't raised a Kryptonian, and I seriously doubt Kansas kids can do that.

Never been to Kansas, though.
ever think he was referring to the game hide and seek?

[PatrickG]

I was thinking "tag".

But some (most?) people more or less devolved hide and seek into a game of tag once each person was found.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Thanks for rekindling the hope that the Kiss of Forgetfulnes wasn´t Donner´s idea. :p

[GreenHornet]

No matter how bad S-II was is was a whole lot better to watch then trying to sit thur III & IV


When Hackman said to Zod "I give you the son of Jor-el and what do I get?" Knee! Bow! before Zod"

hahahaha that was funny

[Theophilus]

ever think he was referring to the game hide and seek?

Not in the context. The 'game' included being able not only to disappear but to project false images of themselves. It's not like it was just an enhancement to hide and seek. It was whole 'nother ballpark. The 'we' inidicated some sort of Kryptonian fraternity. Lois and Lex were on the outside looking in. I say the line bothered me, but I guess it didn't too much. It provided a nice moment for both Lex and Lois, who shared something that Clark and Lois could not. It was gods battling for the fate of mankind and they were just frightened spectators dealing with in their own way.

But if Supes was talking about just 'hide-and-seek', I assume he always won.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

...That has to be the dumbest thing I ever heard of in my life.. :eek: ...Someone who DOESN'T know who Superman is and what he can do? Was that Lester guy some sort of Monk who'd lived in a cave all his life?

...And what the *#%@ were those producers thinking? :mad:

The producers were, to be frank, money-grubbing idiots.

Richard Lester, on the other hand, was reportedly a real gentleman and a fine director in his own right when he's doing films that he's passionate about. The reason he was unfamilar with Superman was because his mother refused to let him read comics as a kid.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Thanks for rekindling the hope that the Kiss of Forgetfulnes wasn´t Donner´s idea. :p

Actually, I talked about that with Geoff Johns, who Richard Donner's assistant for a few years, and he said that they hadn't actually figured out the ending to the sequel before Donner was fired. The "fly around the world at the speed of light and turn back time to resurrect Lois" thing was originally meant to be the ending of Superman II, but they changed their minds while filming and made it the ending to the first movie in order to give the film a little more emotional oomph.

The inexplicable super-mindwipe kiss was not their plan...

[Theophilus]

No matter how bad S-II was is was a whole lot better to watch then trying to sit thur III & IV


When Hackman said to Zod "I give you the son of Jor-el and what do I get?" Knee! Bow! before Zod"

hahahaha that was funny

I don't think Superman II was bad at all. I can't speak for everybody, but I think it's obvious we all bear a great love for Superman II. For all its faults, it is still my favorite comic book movie. And that's funny, because I can point out plenty of movies that are more technically perfect (I'm speaking of writing techniques, not special effects) but there are just so many incredible moments that still give me goosebumps ("General Zod, would you care to step into my office?")

I guess the real implication is if Superman II is so great for all its faults, imagine what it could have been. But that could be somewhat misleading. Let me give an example.

The original plan to have Jor-El transfer his spirit would have added a lot to the movie. But it might have diminished the emotional poignance, the "Surprise!" feeling, when Superman showed up at the window of the Daily Planet. Who can tell? I could be wrong. But I know if you watch DVD extras, writers agonize over these sorts of things. There is alway some brilliant scene they wanted to include, but it would have detracted from the overall theme, or diminished another equally important scene.

Of course, the problem with Supes II isn't that a single writer or director had trouble determining how to execute his vision, but the fractured feeling we get when the better director is fired midstream and his ideas are compromised. And Supes III and IV are evidence that Donner is not to be doutbed. So I will always wonder whether how much better a really good movie could have been.

[Theophilus]

I do have one more question. It it true that Superman Returns will somehow be related to the original movies, and if so, how? It seems likely since the composer said the original theme would be included in the film, and that doesn't make sense if there isn't some sort of story connection.

How will the writers include the better elements of the original story and exclude the worser? Hackman's Luthor was perfect for its time, but it was pre-Crisis. Fans will hardly be satisfied by anything less now than a fully competent, ruthless, powerful businessman Luthor--not a slimy frightened conman. Post Crisis' Luthor would not have capitulated to Zod in any way.

[Arrjay]

Superman 2 is just so wacky. It's amusing to watch when you're under the influence. He does some seriously stupid things that are just so out of character that I just can't help but laugh. It was really all quite stupid.

[Arrjay]

I do have one more question. It it true that Superman Returns will somehow be related to the original movies, and if so, how? It seems likely since the composer said the original theme would be included in the film, and that doesn't make sense if there isn't some sort of story connection.

How will the writers include the better elements of the original story and exclude the worser? Hackman's Luthor was perfect for its time, but it was pre-Crisis. Fans will hardly be satisfied by anything less now than a fully competent, ruthless, powerful businessman Luthor--not a slimy frightened conman. Post Crisis' Luthor would not have capitulated to Zod in any way.

Yeah. I'm kinda pissed that this new film is gonna be connected to the old ones. I think it'd be much better to just do it all over. I don't think that attaching anything new to the Superman film mythos is going to honor Reeve in any way either (that seems to be something many people take issue with) I think it'll actually dishonor it. It's just best to start over. That's what they've done with Batman and that was just purely awesome.

[Theophilus]

Yeah. I'm kinda pissed that this new film is gonna be connected to the old ones. I think it'd be much better to just do it all over. I don't think that attaching anything new to the Superman film mythos is going to honor Reeve in any way either (that seems to be something many people take issue with) I think it'll actually dishonor it. It's just best to start over. That's what they've done with Batman and that was just purely awesome.

It would take possibly the most brilliant writer ever to work this out in a two hour film, but conceivably Superman's pre-Crisis mythology provides the elements. In the first film, Superman was granted knowledge of all the universe. He inexplicably went from being eighteen to late twenties. Also with the time loops, alternate universes and the like, there are things ripe for the plucking that are done well, could give us perfection and poorly, an anyeurism.

In pre-Crisis, I believe Superman actually went through the Phantom Zone and lived life in the golden age of Krypton. I'm not suggesting that, but the idea is that Superman has always played around with fantasy and sci-fi concepts that are potentially exciting. I could argue that Superman comic books have lost the wonder and excitement of the Pre-Crisis era (excluding some of the more ridiculously executed elements)--throwing out the baby with the bath water. At his best, Superman has been able to transverse genres, skipping the universe like Star Trek to study ancient civilizations, encountering the mystical akin to Conan, flying the skies of sunny Metropolis, reporting on the gritty streets, all of this and more.

[The Shadow]

No, Gene Hackman had finished filming most of his scenes for Superman II before Donner was fired, but he did refuse to come back to reshoot scenes for Lester, which is why a body double and a voice over guy doing a horrible Gene Hackman impression had to be used in certain scenes.
That was it!

Thanks!

[The Shadow]

He inexplicably went from being eighteen to late twenties.
I thought he stayed up there for those years learning...

Why was Donner fired anyway?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I do have one more question. It it true that Superman Returns will somehow be related to the original movies, and if so, how? It seems likely since the composer said the original theme would be included in the film, and that doesn't make sense if there isn't some sort of story connection.
.

The first two movies are being treated as a sort of "vague history" for the new Superman film. In other words, they're not going to bother trying to come up with yet another retelling of Superman's origin because the comics, cartoons, movies & TV shows have already done that several times. The new film will be sort of a sequel to the first two films, but won't really require anyone to have seen those films and might change certain elements in order to keep the characters relevant for today's audience.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I thought he stayed up there for those years learning...

Why was Donner fired anyway?

Donner was fired because of his insistance on playing Superman straight, rather than doing a campy take on the character that the Lester portions of Superman II and the subsequent films took.

The original film's jump between Clark in his teens to his adult years is yet another Christ reference.

[dancj]

The original film's jump between Clark in his teens to his adult years is yet another Christ reference.

Did Christ do that? Like The Shadow I assumed that he had spent years in the fortress.

Just for the record, I though the first 3 Superman films were all good fun. 3 may not have been particularly good, but it's still enjoyable. Superman 4 couldn't even manage that

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Did Christ do that? Like The Shadow I assumed that he had spent years in the fortress.

Just for the record, I though the first 3 Superman films were all good fun. 3 may not have been particularly good, but it's still enjoyable. Superman 4 couldn't even manage that

In the Bible, the young Jesus disappears for several years before reappearing as the adult Christ.

[The Joker]

Why was Donner fired anyway?

Another reason why he got fired may have been because the producers were pretty ticked off that Donner went over their original planned budget for the movie, and WB ended up getting more and more involved in the race to complete the film. Which in effect, allowed WB to recieve more profits from the films box office take than the producers had originally agreed to. With their power slipping away, Donner was unfortunately made the scapegoat.

[Steve]

What was the deal with that plastic thing that superman used in Superman 2 that came off his chest? Remember he pulled some plastic piece of wrenalds wrap and threw it at marlon brando and it took care of him..what was the deal with that?
Superman didn't throw the S shield at Marlon Brando, who played his father Jor-El. He threw it at Non in the Fortress of Solitude.

[Viking Bastard]

What's most remarkable, Superman II is still the best movie.

I mean, the first one was more... whole, but it's just kinda dull on repeat viewings.

Superman II I can rewatch again and again.



Kneel before Zod!

[Steve]

pics?

it would be interesting if somehow the could ressurected argo city and supergirl for superman returns or the sequel to it..
after all he is going into space to look for other surviving kryptonians to make sure none become a threat to earth right?
and movie canon has supergirl... wonder if he heard about her?
Of Spacey as Luthor?

Check here (http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php?readmore=1036).

[The Shadow]

In the Bible, the young Jesus disappears for several years before reappearing as the adult Christ.
Bad editing in the bible!

[protonik]

Bad editing in the bible!

LOL. Actually it is a symptom of most religious writings. The founder of the religion disappears into the wilderness for several years only to return a god-man of sorts...

Jason

[Arune Singh]

Actually, I talked about that with Geoff Johns, who Richard Donner's assistant for a few years, and he said that they hadn't actually figured out the ending to the sequel before Donner was fired. The "fly around the world at the speed of light and turn back time to resurrect Lois" thing was originally meant to be the ending of Superman II, but they changed their minds while filming and made it the ending to the first movie in order to give the film a little more emotional oomph.

The inexplicable super-mindwipe kiss was not their plan...

If you watch the Restored International Cut, it ends with Lois accepting what Superman has to do, promising to keep Clark's secret and he flies off. Later at the Daily Planet, we see a nod to the fact that Lois knows but isn't saying anything.

EDIT: And then I think the mindwipe kiss happens. God.. I hated that.

[SuperManny]

Another reason why he got fired may have been because the producers were pretty ticked off that Donner went over their original planned budget for the movie, and WB ended up getting more and more involved in the race to complete the film. Which in effect, allowed WB to recieve more profits from the films box office take than the producers had originally agreed to. With their power slipping away, Donner was unfortunately made the scapegoat.

Instead of making a new thread, thought I'd continue the old one. According to Hannibal Tatu of The CBR Comic Reel, Superman II, III and IV will now finally see the special edition treatment on DVD around the time of the new movie's arrival. On top of that, Richard Donner will be involved.

http://supermanhomepage.com/images/news-images/dreamwatch-S2dvd.jpg

How can you top this Superman fanboy's true wish...??

Comments on this new project? :D

[The Wayner]

I'll be all over the SE of II and III. But, I have trouble with IV. Not sure if I'll pick that one up...

Either way, this is great news! :)

[davids]

With his footage that he shot and was never used. Exsample Lois in atempt to prove clark is superman takes a dive out of the window! oncly to be saved by a winow orning that opened if by magic or some one traveling at super speed!