The evolution of rock music without drugs.

[Buried Alien]

Drugs have long been a part of rock culture, although not overtly so until the second half of the 1960s. By the time that the Beatles, Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, and others were producing their magnum opuses circa 1966-1969, it was evident that drug use had altered the course of rock music history forever.

Over the years, drug abuse has taken its share of casualties in the rock world: from Hendrix, the Doors' Jim Morrison, and Janis Joplin in the 1960s to Kurt Cobain and INXS's Michael Hutchence in the 1990s, among dozens upon dozens of others in between.

But what would rock have been like had drugs not played a role in the development of the music in the late 1960s? Would the absence of the hypercreativity spurred by those drugs have caused rock to die out prematurely?


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[FresnoXpatriate]

I definitely think Rock would have wilted as a result. Part of the image and culture of rock in the 60's, from my perspective, is the drugs and psychadelia. That not only fueled the creativity, it fueled the major festivals of the time, proved to be a cohesive element among the disparate groups, and helped to overall unify the 'rock body'. Nothing else, not even anti-war sentimient would have provided the unifying force necessary to carry rock through that tumultous time.
... And when it comes to the 70's, well, the rockers that snort together, grow together. And who doesn't like a little blow now and again? :cool:

[Eliot Johnson]

I'm inclined to agree. I really believe that drugs had a profound influence on the spread and popularity of rock, particularly the psychadelic variety.

Imagine Pink Floyd w/o drugs...they're still incredible, but, I just don't see them as being quite the same.

Another casualty of drugs in the rock industry is Syd Barrett, but I also believe that some of the drugs he took spurred the fantastical weirdness of his music.

[Royal]

They all would have been alcoholics.

[Patient Boy]

I'm reminded of the Bill Hicks routine. Rockers Against Drugs Suck, right?

I'm not entirely sure I can imagine what rock music without drugs would've sounded like especially when a lot of the more interesting, out there stuff was made on drugs.

Also, Michael Hutchence and Kurt Cobain's deaths were, officially at least, suicides.

[Patient Boy]

They all would have been alcoholics.

Doesn't seem like it would've had the same effect on their music though.

[Royal]

Michael Hutchence

wasn't caused by drugs.

[Headhunter]

They all would have been alcoholics.
Pretty much.

[lonewolf23k]

This reminds me of a comedian monologue I once heard..

"Drugs sure suck, huh? But Damn it makes for good music! ...What they should do is make a rule so that only musicians can take drugs."

[Hiromi]

They all would have been alcoholics.
aside from the ones who already where(coughBonScottcough)

[Patient Boy]

wasn't caused by drugs.

Which is exactly what I said in my post.

[howyadoin]

Drugs have long been a part of rock culture, although not overtly so until the second half of the 1960s.Not publicly, maybe. But they were certainly behind the scenes in pretty much all forms of popular music for decades before that.

[Grant]

I'm pretty sure Captain Beefheart, Frank Zappa Brian Eno and Peter Gabriel never used drugs or didn't use them on a regular basis. And those guys created some weird fucking music.

[FresnoXpatriate]

I'm pretty sure Captain Beefheart, Frank Zappa Brian Eno and Peter Gabriel never used drugs or didn't use them on a regular basis. And those guys created some weird fucking music.

Yes, but would you say they would have existed and been as innovative without the surrounding rock culture being what it was, and being fueled by drugs?

[JeffreyWKramer]

INXS's Michael Hutchence in the 1990s,
Died via autoerotic asphyxiation, not drugs.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Another casualty of drugs in the rock industry is Syd Barrett,

My understanding is that Barrett's primary problem is schizophrenia more than drugs. As such, his drug use may have hastened his deterioration, but he'd have gotten there soon enough either way.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Also, Michael Hutchence and Kurt Cobain's deaths were, officially at least, suicides.

In Hutchence's case, his family and publicists got things declared a suicide, but the facts obviously point to erotic asphyxiation.

Cobain died by self-inflicted gunshot wound, but had first taken drugs and/or alcohol (I can't recall which/both at the moment).

[Adam Crocker]

My understanding is that Barrett's primary problem is schizophrenia more than drugs. As such, his drug use may have hastened his deterioration, but he'd have gotten there soon enough either way.

Roger Waters backs this up as well. He stated that Syd already was predisposed to schizophrenia (though observers have cited other mental illnesses), but his frequent acid use made it much worst.

In Hutchence's case, his family and publicists got things declared a suicide, but the facts obviously point to erotic asphyxiation.

Oh? How so?

Frankly, I'm still thinking about this one. While it's clear that men like Hendrix, Syd Barret, Dylan, the Beatles, and Jim Morri...well four out of five ain't bad...were quite creative individuals in themselves, there is evidence that drugs influenced their work. So instead I shall present a series of rambling, disconnected thoughts to show case my ability to blab messageboards for longer than is necessary, bearable, or legal. Feel free to tune out or harange me...

I know that many of Hendrix's bizarre lyrical imagery was influenced by his acid trips, but nothing as to whether or not that affected his guitar playing. Even on the Chitlin circuit he had developed a funky playing style that even caught the ear of veteran guitarist/inventor Les Paul and by the time that Chas Chandler found him in New York he was already experimenting with feedback. He did feed off of Britain's psychedelic underground though. And I doubt anyone will argue that it wasn't fueled to a significant degree by acid.

From what I have read Syd Barrett seems to have taken acid to help inspire him, but his unique guitar playing suggests a talent that couldn't be laid down merely to heavy acid use.

Dylan was already experimenting with folk rock and lyrics before he encountered amphetamines (which he started taking only to keep up with his punishing mid 60s tour schedule. I've read some critics claiming that ampethamines fueled the imagery of Blonde on Blonde though I don't necessarily see it myself. The album's less edgy than Highway 61 (then again Bloomfield wasn't playing with him). Still I would not be surprised if it influenced the sound and tone of his live shows with the Band around this period. (Besides rampant audience hostility.) I am not familiar, however, with his use of other drugs around that period so maybe some Dylanologists can shed some light on that.

The VU's sound was primarily influenced by (besides rock'n'roll) free jazz's dissonance, the Mid Eastern inspired ideas of avante-garde composition (i.e.; John Cage and La Monte Young), yet the band's tone and subject matter owes much to New York's drug culture, spawning several classic songs like "White Light/White Heat," "Waiting For the Man" and "Heroin." One of the things that made the VU so important was Reed's willingness to write and sing about the sleazy, forbidden side of life in such an open (and on the first album, in a straight-forward, and honest) manner. And that is significant influence in terms of opening the door on what could be discussed lyrically in rock music (even if for the first thirty years or so it was mostly underground). I suppose the same applies to the generally sleazy, dark tone of the Stones' peak era work.

[Adam Crocker]

Cobain died by self-inflicted gunshot wound, but had first taken drugs and/or alcohol (I can't recall which/both at the moment).

Drugs, specifically heroin.

And on the other side of the equation...



Yes, but would you say they would have existed and been as innovative without the surrounding rock culture being what it was, and being fueled by drugs?

Well Beefheart was something of an artistic progeny himself and apparently a trained musician who could play . He was also well acquainted avante-garde compositional music and jazz, which were major inspirations for his unique take on delta-blues inspired rock. However, one of his influences, lyrically speaking at least, was mid 60s Bob Dylan.

Frank Zappa also never used drugs. In fact disdained drug use in general and was very strict, and authoritarian as a band leader. His primary inspirations early on were 50s R&B, blues guitarists like Guitar Slim and Clarence Gatemouth Brown, as well as modern composers like Stravinsky and Edgar Varese. (Later jazz seemed to creep into the mix even though Zappa apparently didn't like it.)

Dub legend King Tubby apparently completely stayed away from drugs.

And Tom Waits? Well his music began to shift to the weird after marrying Kathleen Brennan and cleaning up. His music has only become stranger and more idiosyncratic as he settled into his home life. His big influences in that regard are Beefheart and composer Harry Partch.

Tom Verlaine, according to the testimonies in Legs McNeill's Please Kill Me (a book that has no qualms about playing up drug fueled antics), apparently didn't do drugs very much and was too uptight to do so. In any case I doubt the heroin use of Television's second guitarist, Richard Lloyd, influenced his music much. (And indeed interrupted his career.) Ditto, Richard Hell, and in any case Robert Quine stayed away from drugs like the plague. (Claiming he learnt from Dragnet that "if you smoke a stick of marijuana you'll be robbing banks within a week.")

I'm not sure if drugs influenced the Clash very much, though according to Joe Strummer, when they were taking breaks in the studio, they'd go off to an area of the studio they demarcated to write more material and talk with friends. This area was designated "The Spliff Bunker" for reasons that should be obvious. Also on the promotional video of sorts for his first Mescaleros album, Joe stated in an interview that "I get inspiration from many kinds of things. Um, at this time of year its magic mushrooms."

*He then looks to the ceiling while raising his hand and says...*

"...thank you god..."

[JeffreyWKramer]

Oh? How so?

The medical examiner concluded autoerotic asphyxiation on the basis of death scene particulars, but the final death certificate was altered to save the rep of the artist, apparently at the insistence of his publicists and/or family. Better to be another tragic suicide than a death-by-wank pervert.

Many AE deaths appear to be suicides to those who don't know what to look for - or who don't want to look for it.

[Adam Crocker]

The medical examiner concluded autoerotic asphyxiation on the basis of death scene particulars, but the final death certificate was altered to save the rep of the artist, apparently at the insistence of his publicists and/or family. [...]

Many AE deaths appear to be suicides to those who don't know what to look for - or who don't want to look for it.

Ah...

Better to be another tragic suicide than a death-by-wank pervert.

Yes, better his death be tragic than utterly stupid.

[Grant]

Yes, but would you say they would have existed and been as innovative without the surrounding rock culture being what it was, and being fueled by drugs?

I'm sure they would existed but I think they may have not been as easily accepted without drug culture. It's hard to say. I don't think drugs ever made people more creative. They may have acted as a crutch to get over whatever insecurities or inhibitions they had but otherwise I think most of these musicians would have kept on the same path with or without narcotics.

And maybe more people would realize the Doors kind of sucked ;)

[Adam Crocker]

And maybe more people would realize the Doors kind of sucked ;)

I am afraid I have heard even sober people who endorse the Doors.

...then again my friend did go through four years of University only to end up working in the food service industry so maybe the stress and disappointment had finally caused him to crack.

[Phrozen]

Morrisson was just plan weird before the drugs. On the drugs he just became violent.

[Eliot Johnson]

My understanding is that Barrett's primary problem is schizophrenia more than drugs. As such, his drug use may have hastened his deterioration, but he'd have gotten there soon enough either way.

Very true. Not nearly as soon, though, or so I gather from "Lost in the Woods."

Besides, when talking about the role drugs played in the development and progression of rock, it's a necessity to mention Syd Barrett, I believe.

[howyadoin]

Morrisson was just plan weird before the drugs. On the drugs he just became violent."Before the drugs"? He was dropping lots of acid before he even met Ray Mazarek.