Who's Gonna Bite the Dust? *Possible spoilers*

[Lorendiac]

Okay, I originally tried to start a discussion on this in the humongous Infinite Crisis thread a few days ago. But now that we have our own forum for such things, and that big thread has been "closed," I figure I'll try to spin the idea off into its own little thread.

In case anyone hasn't heard, Rich Johnston recently wrote in his LITG column a possible Spoiler about something that may happen in Infinite Crisis, although he does not even mention the name of the character he thinks it will happen to. If you don't even want to hear a vague Spoiler rumor on those terms, you had best close this window and run away from this thread right now. You've been warned! :)

Here's what Johnston said:
"Okay, okay, Even I'm not going to totally ruin this one. But a major character dies and is replaced by their successor, just as The Flash did in the first Crisis On Infinite Earths. This will kick off a new mini-series, which will turn into an ongoing."

Still with me? Good!

Okay, this got me wondering. A "Major Character" will die and be replaced? That begs the question: Just who are the Major Characters these days?

It would be nice if we had a ballot of the contenders who qualify as "Major Characters." Just saying "Anybody with his or her own monthly book" doesn't do it for me. I don't see the current Firestorm or the current Batgirl as really Major Characters, for some reason, but I admit they have their own monthly books. Part of it is that I feel it takes time (a few decades, say?) to really become a Major Character in most cases.

I decided to start simple. All the characters who (according to a listing on Wikipedia) were members of the JLA somewhere along the line during and after the Silver Age, up until the Detroit Era of the mid-80s, which is where I draw the line. Prior to the Detroit Era, joining the JLA was a real status symbol. I also throw in one other character at the very end of the list because he's been around since 1940 one way or another, and has been the field leader of various superhero teams. (By the way, I'm ignoring any Post-Crisis or Post-Zero Hour retcons that later tried to retroactively remove some of these people from the JLA's membership in the good old days.)

I don't claim this is a complete list of Major Characters, but it gives us a place to start.

SAMPLE BALLOT OF "MAJOR CHARACTERS"

01. Superman
02. Batman
03. Wonder Woman
04. The Flash
05. Green Lantern
06. Aquaman
07. Martian Manhunter
08. Green Arrow
09. The Atom
10. Hawkman
11. Black Canary
12. The Phantom Stranger
13. The Elongated Man
14. Red Tornado
15. Hawkgirl
16. Zatanna
17. Firestorm
18. Dick Grayson (Robin, Nightwing)

Except for #18, I carefully didn't list secret identities, in order to keep possibilities open and remind myself (and the rest of us) that some of the classic names have been used repeatedly. There have been multiple Green Arrows, Green Lanterns, and Flashes, as well as some of the other names on the list.

So, whether or not you agree that all of those are Major Characters, who else can you think of that really deserves to be added to the Ballot?

[Sean Whitmore]

19. Captain Marvel
20. Plastic Man
21. Captain Atom

I realize that he's getting a Wildstorm series, but who knows, maybe this will be the impetus for that.

22. Oracle

I'd consider her pretty major, especially since the Calculator is heavily involved in this story and has been called the "Anti-Oracle".


SEAN

[Adem]

Does MM really have a successor? I don't see many people who could fill his shoes.

[Kevinroc]

Firestorm was replaced already with a different guy. Very recently too.

[Expletive Deleted]

Firestorm was replaced already with a different guy. Very recently too.So was Hawkman, kind of.

Really, there are very few characters on this list that haven't been killed off and replaced at one point or another. The '90s were fairly brutal in that regard.

I'll say the same thing that was said in the IC megathread. Regardless of their membership in the JLA, I'd hesitate to call anyone on that list after #10 "major." And even then we're pushing it a bit.

[Lorendiac]

Does MM really have a successor? I don't see many people who could fill his shoes.

Isn't Jemm, Son of Saturn, supposed to be some sort of long-lost relative of J'onn J'onnz's species? :) Cloning and genetic engineering to produce the "Saturn" version of the family, or whatever? Not that I've kept track of where Jemm is or what he's doing these days . . .

But as someone pointed out in the big thread before it got closed, the "successor" isn't necessarily anyone we already have known for years as a close associate (or relative, or protege, or imitator, or whatever) of the Major Character.

After all, 12 years ago when Hal Jordan went nuts in "Emerald Twilight," as that story started he had never seen or heard of Kyle Rayner in his life. Neither had any of his fans. But before we knew it, Ganthet stumbled across Kyle at random and tossed him a ring, saying, "I suppose you will have to do," and bingo! Instant Successor to Hal Jordan as the new Official Green Lantern!

DC could easily do the same sort of thing all over again, or dust off some minor supporting character we haven't heard from in years and suddenly shoot him full of superpowers he never had before, or whatever tricks they feel like pulling on us.

[Expletive Deleted]

Yeah, like Kyle Rayner becoming Green Lantern. Or like Azrael becoming Batman. Or like a teenager, an engineer, a robot, and a psychopath becoming Superman. Or like a complete cipher becoming Wonder Woman.

I mean, just look how well those transitions worked out. DC can't possibly screw this up!

[Lorendiac]

Yeah, like Kyle Rayner becoming Green Lantern. Or like Azrael becoming Batman. Or like a teenager, an engineer, a robot, and a psychopath becoming Superman. Or like a complete cipher becoming Wonder Woman.

I mean, just look how well those transitions worked out. DC can't possibly screw this up!

There's a key difference between Kyle and the others you refer to, however. I remembered the others, but I only mentioned Kyle because to the best of my knowledge, he was actually "expected" by the editorial staff to become the Permanent Successor replacing Hal Jordan in his own title, whereas I figured all along that all of the others you mentioned were just Temporary Stunts whom nobody ever took seriously as "Successor" material.

(In fact, when I first read "Emerald Twilight," given all the other "Temporary Stunts" DC had been doing lately with Azrael, Reign of the Supermen, etc., I naturally assumed it was just another Temporary Stunt too! I didn't like it, but I never seriously believed Kyle would end up being the star of the Green Lantern title for what, the next decade or so? If you had tried to tell me that at the time, I would have laughed. I figured maybe one year before Hal regained his rightful place.)

[Justin D.]

If I had to pick a name from the list above, I might say it's either Batman, Wonder Woman, or Zatanna. There's even the rumor that Dick Grayson will take over the Batman role and that the Nightwing series will still continue. Obviously, I don't have a clue what that'll mean.

Could you imagine the uproar if Zatanna died? I think people might be more upset if she died than if Wonder Woman or Batman died.

[celluloid_droid]

I'm stickin' to my guns and saying it's Diana.
Diana's a dyin'.

[sehthan]

Isn't Jemm, Son of Saturn, supposed to be some sort of long-lost relative of J'onn J'onnz's species? :) Cloning and genetic engineering to produce the "Saturn" version of the family, or whatever? Not that I've kept track of where Jemm is or what he's doing these days . . .

I'm not sure if Jemm is related to J'onn, but I do know he's Truly Outrageous.

[Jim Yost]

ALL my money is on Wonder Woman - because of many comments I've read in interviews, gut feeling... AND the moment in the Return of Donna Troy mini that just came out, when Cassie shows Donna a picture of Cassie, Donna and Diana, and says "this is who you are!" and she is holding the picture such that ONLY Wonder Woman is fully visible. Since pencilling is precise, and Jiminez is writing this and pencilling Infinite Crisis... that CAN'T be coincidence.

Also, I think this is the only change of the "major characters" which wouldn't alter WW in the perception of the general public, and as such would be LASTING, like Wally as the Flash... cuz everybody knows Clark Kent is Superman, Bruce Wayne is Batman. But Wonder Woman, to most, is just Wonder Woman. Princess Diana? MAYBE they know that. Diana Prince? Less likely they know that (and when was the last time she went by that anyway?) So, as long as Wonder Woman is a tall attractive brunette amazon, nobody in the GP would be any the wiser, nor would they HAVE to be. Hence, I say, Diana dies, Donna becomes the new Wonder Woman.

[chrisew]

I'm stickin' to my guns and saying it's Diana.
Diana's a dyin'.

On the one hand, DC is making a strong effort to bring back Donna Troy. So, I could easily see her being groomed to replace Wonder Woman.

On the other, why would they go to all the trouble of hyping Wonder Woman like they have lately? Really, ending "Sacrifice" in her title, as opposed to OMAC or one of the Superman titles was a blatant way to draw attention to the Wonder Woman and her series. I didn't mind, because at the moment it's a good series and deserves the attention.

I may be wrong, but I'm leaning toward one of the goals of Infinite Crisis being pushing Wonder Woman to the forefront of the DC Universe.

[chriskenny]

There's a key difference between Kyle and the others you refer to, however. I remembered the others, but I only mentioned Kyle because to the best of my knowledge, he was actually "expected" by the editorial staff to become the Permanent Successor replacing Hal Jordan in his own title, whereas I figured all along that all of the others you mentioned were just Temporary Stunts whom nobody ever took seriously as "Successor" material.

(In fact, when I first read "Emerald Twilight," given all the other "Temporary Stunts" DC had been doing lately with Azrael, Reign of the Supermen, etc., I naturally assumed it was just another Temporary Stunt too! I didn't like it, but I never seriously believed Kyle would end up being the star of the Green Lantern title for what, the next decade or so? If you had tried to tell me that at the time, I would have laughed. I figured maybe one year before Hal regained his rightful place.)

True, but I get the feeling they would do it more in keeping with what they did with The Flash rather than what they did with Green Lantern. I think audiences will be more easy on the new guy if it makes sense to the story (i.e., Wally takes over for Barry, Donna takes over for Wonder Woman). I think what they did with Kyle Rayner was kind of sloppy.

They could, I guess, do what Chuck Dixon did with Connor Hawke, which was kind of neat. Oliver Queen was always a shameless womanizer, so the idea of replacing him with a son he never knew he had kind of grew organically from what we knew about Oliver Queen. It had a certain kind of irony to it. They could do that and present a character that hasn't been seen but still makes sense.

I do think Sasha will be the new Blue Beetle (just a guess, but one I like), but I don't think that is the successor situation they are talking about.

Chris

[PIMPurself]

Of the big three, I think WW has the biggest chance to be killed off by DC.

Look at it this way, Superman practically doesn't have a successor (please don't count superboy, if you feel in danger when your around supe's when he is mindcontrolled then there's no way they would let a half clone of Lex be Superman.

Batman, highly unlikely to be killed what with the new movie and all.

Really people, I say if anyone of them dies, its Wonder Woman. Why do you think they just recently revived Donna Troy? DT is supposed to be a major player in Infinite Crisis and thats why.

[Michael Painter]

It has to be either Aquaman or Atom, and I'm only going to say this because I do believe that DC would lose the license to continue holding Wonder Woman if they killed Diana. The Marston estate has some rule that Wonder Woman(Diana) has to stay alive if DC wants to keep the character.

[Sk8maven]

It has to be either Aquaman or Atom, and I'm only going to say this because I do believe that DC would lose the license to continue holding Wonder Woman if they killed Diana. The Marston estate has some rule that Wonder Woman(Diana) has to stay alive if DC wants to keep the character.Not any more. DC got tired of the circus and bought the rights outright. THEY own her now, and they don't HAVE to do anything they don't want to.

Maven

[Michael Painter]

Oh I didn't know that. Well then, she's up for grabs too, then I guess.
But Rucka does like Diana quite a lot.

[Sean Whitmore]

Wow, I didn't know that either. Is this why a Wonder Woman movie has suddenly been greenlit?


SEAN

[KET]

I'm stickin' to my guns and saying it's Diana.
Diana's a dyin'.


Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense, since WW's BEEN DEAD BEFORE and it got nearly ZERO attention back then.

Frankly, I just don't get WHY folks are thinking that Diana's gonna buy it just because Jiminez is writing a thoroughly CONVOLUTED Donna Troy mini.

Or maybe it's the more misogynistic, "Well, the woman's NOT MINDING HER PLACE, so naturally, she's gonna be 'taught a lesson' at the end". :mad:

[Zeta]

Ugh. I can't imagine Donna Troy as Wonder Woman. She's got one of the most convoluted backstories in comic book history (and THAT'S saying TONS). There's no way she could carry her own book, because they'd constantly be trying to explain who the hell she is, figure out where she came from etc. etc. etc.

I see DC having Cassie replace Diana before Donna . . .

[Mulett]

Ugh. I can't imagine Donna Troy as Wonder Woman. She's got one of the most convoluted backstories in comic book history.

I agree totally. I'm not convinced Wonder Woman is going to be killed off. I think her origin is straight forward and one that people know. That's why I don't think it will be Superman or Batman either - but likely to be one of the JLA.

Blue Beetle's all ready been killed - are we sure it isn't him this is referring to?

[trickster]

So far the only character that fits the description is Hawkman. He's got his successor ready, what's more it's his son. And no one can say he's not major league. He has his own series, he's been around since the All Star Squadron days, he's a member of the JSA (founding member?) and he's had a major role in Identity Crisis and after it, considering he's the one who's the most fervently in favor of the mindwipe.

[jade_nova]

I could see Aquaman dying since he really isn't doing anything major at the moment.

[benking]

I would be totally bummed if they offed WW and replaced her with Donna Troy. I just finished reading the complete Rucka WW run, and it's really fantastic. The fights with medusa rocked.

I don't think killing WW and replacing her would increase sales any. So why do it?

If you ask me (and no one did), I think WW had a lot better backstory pre-crisis than post-Perez. It was cool that men couldn't set foot on Paradise Island, that Diana was a princess, and that if a man bound her wrists, she lost her powers.

Personally, I hope they don't kill off anyone. If they had to do something BIG with one character, I'd like it if they'd bring back Barry Allen and sacrifice Wally West. They also need to get the multiple earths back, since the Marvel family doesn't really fit in with the regular heroes, and it's kind of crowded with the JLA and the JSA being on the same planet.

[moebius]

Bruce Wayne is safe from the axe (we know this as a result of other "one year later" LitG rumors that have been greenlit).

Clark Kent is Superman. No Clark, no Superman.

That makes Diana the most likely "major" character to die. Her identity outside WW, beyond the Amazonian heritage, is not very important. So find an Amazon to replace her and it's like Wally taking over for Barry. Different Secret ID, but same basic personality.

[Sean Whitmore]

If you ask me (and no one did), I think WW had a lot better backstory pre-crisis than post-Perez. It was cool that men couldn't set foot on Paradise Island, that Diana was a princess, and that if a man bound her wrists, she lost her powers.


Diana is still a princess post-Perez, and I'm pretty sure (though not 100% certain) that men still can't set foot on Paradise Island. I mean, they do anyway, but it's against the rules.

As for the bound wrists thing, that strikes me as a little too misogynistic. And DC has enough trouble as it is defending themselves from that accusation, what with all their women being raped and murdered and punched in their "chick organs". ;)


SEAN

[Rikman]

When I was at Wizard World Philly, I attended the DC panel that talked about upcoming titles which led up to Infinite Crisis. People were trying to get a clue on who may kick the bucket. People were just throwing out names (even Ambush Bug!:)
However, a big "oooohhhh" was shared collectively in the crowd when I think it was Dan Didio who said "lets just say the Flash and Crisis' have something in common." Think what you will from that, but me and my brothers immediately thought Wally West was dying and maybe somehow bring back Barry. I don't think Impulse/Kid Flash is up to carry the mantle of Flash. However, in recent story lines Wally has been on his back to mature and his death could be motivating factor for KF to wise up.

[PIMPurself]

Didn't someone say (maybe Didio, or maybe Rucka) reassure everyone that Barry Allen would not be revived because they thought Wally was too strong of a character to just kill off? or is my mind just making this up? It seemed like someone said he would only be seen in time-traveling things(like in the current Rouges's War arc on Flash). Again, sorry if I'm making it up. I'm looking everywhere for that quote. :confused:

[James 'Logan' Howlett]

My guess would be:

08. Green Arrow

I don't think any HUGE name characters would die from this.

[Indefatigable]

Here's a question, how much of a shock was Barry Allen's death when you older fans read COIE? Basically did it seem to come out of left field or did he seem like a character who could die?

For now I can't see any current characters as big as Barry dying, so I'm really curious about what's in store.

[Jkid099]

Lying in the Gutters recently announced that a major character in DC will die during Infinite Crisis, and be replaced by their protege. There has been a whole crudload of theories, but today's LITG announced about new titles coming out of Infinite Crisis and tid-bits that were revealed at Wizard World Chicago. One such tid-bit is a pretty much dead giveaway about who's going to bite it ... continued in spoil tags ...

They revealed that Wonder Woman will be re-booted with a volume three. Considering that a major deal has been made about Donna Troy's return, it's pretty obvious Diana's going buh bye and being replaced.

On an additional note, Keith Griffen is making a Blue Beetle series, woohoo!

[Rich L]

Yep, that was the inference that I got too.

And I can live with that...I think. After all, it won't be the first time that particular character has died, and noone stays dead forever in comics.

[Jkid099]

Well I think the significance of this time is that this he-she, like Barry Allen, will remain permanently dead for a good long while. With Allen however, they've found ways for him to guest star via time travel arcs every few years or so. And Considering they have a Wonder Woman movie coming out, I'm wondering how they will have her guest star ... go back to her being a goddess? *Shrug*

[Amethyst Rose]

But if all DC titles are doing the One Year Later thing, wouldn't they all restart at #1?

[moebius]

But if all DC titles are doing the One Year Later thing, wouldn't they all restart at #1?

No. Especially the Batman and Superman comics have too much history behind them to reboot. Action is nearing 1000.

[SpaceBooger]

But if all DC titles are doing the One Year Later thing, wouldn't they all restart at #1?
i was thinking the same thing... as long as they dont one day reverse that and go back that one year to original numbering

[Nick Kal]

Wow, i don't want that person to die at all.

But I'm thinking that some title's numbers will be rebooted, and some won't. So there you go!

[Expletive Deleted]

I remember when IDENTITY CRISIS was in the offing, and all the hints pointed to either Elongated Man and his wife. I said no, no, they wouldn't be that obvious about it.

I remember when COUNTDOWN was in the offing, and all the hints pointed to Blue Beetle. I said no, no, they wouldn't be that obvious about it.

You know what? [Expletive] it. It's Wonder Woman.

[Nick Kal]

I really do not think DC would kill one of the Big 3. This time they're just toying with us.

[JeffreyWKramer]

At this point, I'm sort of hoping they kill Hal Jordan and replace him with Kyle again. I was not fond of GL: AFTERBIRTH, and think that turn of events would be both poetically just and in keeping with recent DC decisions.

They can give Kyle back the crab-face costume at the same time.

[Gaz]

At this point, I'm sort of hoping they kill Hal Jordan and replace him with Kyle again. I was not fond of GL: AFTERBIRTH, and think that turn of events would be both poetically just and in keeping with recent DC decisions.

They can give Kyle back the crab-face costume at the same time.
To be honest, the initially suggested one is pretty much the only way they can go. Hal's back too recently, and the HEAT lot would have a fit, Supes ain't going nowhere, and I doubt Batman being Dick would stick (although he has been a Dick of a different kind for a while now... :p )
Unless, Tempest or Aquagirl taking Arthur's place?

EDIT: Also, I hate that costume, Jeff, it looks like an artist had been told to make it XTREEEEEME! and, well, did... :evilangry

[JeffreyWKramer]

To be honest, the initially suggested one is pretty much the only way they can go. Hal's back too recently, and the HEAT lot would have a fit, Supes ain't going nowhere, and I doubt Batman being Dick would stick (although he has been a Dick of a different kind for a while now... :p )
Unless, Tempest or Aquagirl taking Arthur's place?

EDIT: Also, I hate that costume, Jeff, it looks like an artist had been told to make it XTREEEEEME! and, well, did... :evilangry

Oh, I expect it to be Wonder Woman too. Replaced by Donna. Which is stupid, given how continuity-screwed that character is, but whatever. It isn't like DC is giving a crap about continuity or character integrity at this point anyhow.

Though, Aquaman being replaced by Tempest might actually be cool.

And every costume Kyle had until the current one was pretty awful. That was the nature of 90s costumes, by and large. He should be glad he didn't get stuck with spikes and a codpiece, I guess.

[Gaz]

Oh, I expect it to be Wonder Woman too. Replaced by Donna. Which is stupid, given how continuity-screwed that character is, but whatever. It isn't like DC is giving a crap about continuity or character integrity at this point anyhow.

Though, Aquaman being replaced by Tempest might actually be cool.

And every costume Kyle had until the current one was pretty awful. That was the nature of 90s costumes, by and large. He should be glad he didn't get stuck with spikes and a codpiece, I guess.
Well, Donna, when written well, is one of the best DC characters, (and is far more in keeping with what I'd consider to be the core nature of WW, and DC's trinity). And a new WW title could help clarify her origin better, depending on who's writing?

[JeffreyWKramer]

Well, Donna, when written well, is one of the best DC characters, (and is far more in keeping with what I'd consider to be the core nature of WW, and DC's trinity). And a new WW title could help clarify her origin better, depending on who's writing?

Her continuity has not made any sense since CRISIS. She was technically around, continuity-wise, *before* the current Wonder Woman. Byrne made a valiant attempt, given what he had to work with, but all this Titans of Myth/Dark Angel nonsense, the stuff with Terry and the baby, all that... blegh.

I considered Donna's brief death a mercy killing at the time. At this point, if every DC character's existence was wiped out in IDENTITY CRISIS and rebooted, I'd consider that the best possible option.

[Expletive Deleted]

Byrne made a valiant attempt, given what he had to work with, but all this Titans of Myth/Dark Angel nonsense, the stuff with Terry and the baby, all that... blegh.The recently released trade paperback that explains her origin has three stories: The retcon, the retcon of the retcon, and the retcon of the retcon of the retcon.

It makes me chuckle, just thinking about it.

[DracoMalfoy]

I seriously doubt it will be Wonder Woman. Again?! How many times has she died to date? Five?

[JeffreyWKramer]

I seriously doubt it will be Wonder Woman. Again?! How many times has she died to date? Five?

The Golden Age/Earth-2 Wonder Woman supposedly went to join the Gods of Olympus. The Silver-Age Wonder Woman was returned to clay and rebooted post-CRISIS, as the current one. This version's mom, Hippolyta, was the JSA's Wonder Woman under current continuity, and she's dead now.

There are probably some briefer periods of death/resurrection I'm forgetting.

[JeffreyWKramer]

The recently released trade paperback that explains her origin has three stories: The retcon, the retcon of the retcon, and the retcon of the retcon of the retcon.

It makes me chuckle, just thinking about it.

Sometimes one has to laugh so as to not cry.

[DracoMalfoy]

The Golden Age/Earth-2 Wonder Woman supposedly went to join the Gods of Olympus. The Silver-Age Wonder Woman was returned to clay and rebooted post-CRISIS, as the current one. This version's mom, Hippolyta, was the JSA's Wonder Woman under current continuity, and she's dead now.

There are probably some briefer periods of death/resurrection I'm forgetting.

Diana was once killed by Neron...then turned into a goddess. If she dies again she'll just get turned into a goddess again.

She was killed AGAIN in Wonder Woman 1,000,000.

She dies alot. It's just nobody really hears about it.

[Jkid099]

The Golden Age/Earth-2 Wonder Woman supposedly went to join the Gods of Olympus. The Silver-Age Wonder Woman was returned to clay and rebooted post-CRISIS, as the current one. This version's mom, Hippolyta, was the JSA's Wonder Woman under current continuity, and she's dead now.

There are probably some briefer periods of death/resurrection I'm forgetting.

In the mid to late nineties, Diana died (or was set up to die), and was transformed into the Goddess of Truth and roamed up with the Gods of Olympus for a while. Her mother, Hippolyta, took her place in the Justice League for a while ... and then Diana came back down from Olympus and joined the living once again.

[DracoMalfoy]

I will be REALLY pissed off, if they kill off Wonder Woman and replace her with Troia.

Wonder Woman is FINALLY getting some respect from writers and fans alike and actually has a good writer. If they kill her off I swear... :mad:

[Fenix]

:(:( I´ll start crying:(:( where´s the damn crying smiles?

[JeffreyWKramer]

Diana was once killed by Neron...then turned into a goddess. If she dies again she'll just get turned into a goddess again.


That's right. I forgot all about that nonsense, since she wasn't effectively dead, as she continued appearing in her book.

[Fenix]

DracoMalfoy
She dies alot. It's just nobody really hears about it.

The best way to be young for ever!!!! Die and come back!!! an eternal reboot!!! :)

[waynehead]

Wow...I really wish I hadn't opened this thread. Must...resist...spoilers...in the future.

[Grimm24]

I donno, I doubt that, thats the case

Its probobly a trick by DC to throw us off

Well so far the only heros I can think of that this could happen to would be

Batman-Nightwing

Wonder Woman-Donna Troy

Superman-Superboy

Flash-Kid Flash (like that would be original)

I cant really think of any others right now, god I hope none of them die and like the Atom dies or somthing like that

[benking]

WW is really a great comic right now -- after years of sucking. I really don't want them to kill her off and replace her with Donna T. Can we stage a protest? Who can you write nowadays to complain? It's not too late for them to change their plans.

Maybe I should make like that lady who's giving Bush a hard time in Crawford and just hang out around Paul Levitz' apartment until he talks to me.

[Jkid099]

Not sure ... I'm still demanding my refund after paying to see Jason Todd die. Ugh.

[davids]

one he never sold well, Dc bought him, not create him. And have no idea what to do with him? is he a comic book icon or a funny book looking for a punch line. talking tigers, a worm that has a radio around his neck and wants to take over the world.

What can you do with a hero called the big red cheese?

he has a bunch of wanna be's to take over for him, capt marvel jr. oh god.

kill diana just when intrest is high and sales brisk?

I would believe lois dying first!

[Kevinroc]

That's right. I forgot all about that nonsense, since she wasn't effectively dead, as she continued appearing in her book.

And yet everybody makes jokes about Pheonix coming back all the time. :rolleyes:

[SUPERECWFAN1]

If they do this , its crapping on everything cool that Rucka has done with Wonder Woman. God I hope DC doesn't even remotely consider this. Troy is too screwed up to even make Wonder Woman and its not the same. ( Now if Cassie became WW due to being Zeus daughter then...maybe...)


I think Its a DC miss-direction ploy. Its gonna be Dick Grayson. He's gonna die and Tim Drake will lead The Titans as Nightwing then. He'll assume Dick's mantle since he feels he's leading the Titans under that direction.

[Nick Kal]

If they do this , its crapping on everything cool that Rucka has done with Wonder Woman. God I hope DC doesn't even remotely consider this. Troy is too screwed up to even make Wonder Woman and its not the same. ( Now if Cassie became WW due to being Zeus daughter then...maybe...)


I think Its a DC miss-direction ploy. Its gonna be Dick Grayson. He's gonna die and Tim Drake will lead The Titans as Nightwing then. He'll assume Dick's mantle since he feels he's leading the Titans under that direction.

No way. Nightwing is never going to die.. or at least not during Crisis.

[Paradox]

benking has his cart before his horse:

WW is really a great comic right now -- after years of sucking. I really don't want them to kill her off and replace her with Donna T. Can we stage a protest? Who can you write nowadays to complain?

Complain or protest about what? The fact that Rich Johnston is indicating on the internet that Wonder Woman will be killed? I don't think that's going to get you very far, since it hasn't actually happened.

[SpaceBooger]

No way. Nightwing is never going to die.. or at least not during Crisis.
well you never know if grayson is writing it

[benking]

one he never sold well, Dc bought him, not create him. And have no idea what to do with him? is he a comic book icon or a funny book looking for a punch line. talking tigers, a worm that has a radio around his neck and wants to take over the world.

What can you do with a hero called the big red cheese?

he has a bunch of wanna be's to take over for him, capt marvel jr. oh god.

kill diana just when intrest is high and sales brisk?

I would believe lois dying first!

I hope you're right about Captain M. Much better choice than WW.

[Zeta]

Yes. My problem is with bringing Troia in as a replacement. They'll need a flow chart in the beginning of each new Wonder Woman comic just to explain to fans what the hell is going on.

Now I could see her being replaced with Cassie - she's a similar, younger character - and she's a helluva lot easier to figure out. "Daugther of Zeus - got it!"

Meanwhile, Troia would be like "I was the younger version of Wonder Woman seen in a magic mirror until a genie made me a clone of the original Wonder Woman, but really I was an heir to the Titans of Legend cursed to be forever ressurected because they thought I was Wonder Woman and I traveled through time sideways, but not really . . ."

Batman couldn't piece together who the hell Donna Troy really is.

Though, Aquaman being replaced by Tempest might actually be cool.

Yes, please. I'd actually buy an Aquaman comic if Garth was Aquaman.

[Paul Newell]

One thing no-one has mentioned yet....How do we know that Donna Troy's history will still "stand" after Infinite Crisis? It might not be as convoluted after. :)

[Zeta]

If they're going to rewrite the character into unrecognizability, they might as well just come up with a new one instead of using Donna Troy. :/

It's kind of like people who say Dick could never replace Bruce being responded to with "But what if they made Dick MORE like Bruce?" Well, yeah, you could do that. But it kind of makes the whole thing a moot point. It'd be basically a name swap . . .

[Pennyghost]

I think it's most likely that it *is* going to be Wonder Woman. And I think it sucks big time.

[Jeff O.]

In JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA # 123 (http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/1449/400/1449_4_123.jpg), members of the Justice League accidentally kill members of the Justice Society, because the League is tricked into seeing the Society members as Earth-Two villains. The Earth-Two Wonder Woman is among those who died.

In JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA # 124 (http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/1449/400/1449_4_124.jpg), The Spectre prays to God, and Wonder Woman and the other JSA'ers are brought back to life.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I hope you're right about Captain M. Much better choice than WW.

Actually, killing off Captain Marvel would be about the most horrible idea possible. Part of the point of the Marvel Family is the "family" aspect.

Of course, the Marvel Family really doesn't belong within the mainstream DCU anyhow, but that's a whole 'nother argument.

[JeffreyWKramer]

One thing no-one has mentioned yet....How do we know that Donna Troy's history will still "stand" after Infinite Crisis? It might not be as convoluted after. :)


No, that's true, I suppose they could reboot reality to just say she was Wonder Woman's little/adopted sister again. But, Cassie would be a cleaner choice.

Maybe Cassie and Donna could get merged somehow. Hey, it worked for Hawkman...

[Doom]

Don't DC have some crazy deal where if they ever stop publishing Wonder Woman comics (or comics with Wonder Woman in them) they lose the rights to Wonder Woman and anyone would be able to publish her book?
I think I remember hearing this before. Surely that would make DC think twice before going near Diana.

[Sk8maven]

Don't DC have some crazy deal where if they ever stop publishing Wonder Woman comics (or comics with Wonder Woman in them) they lose the rights to Wonder Woman and anyone would be able to publish her book?Nope. That's been asked and answered repeatedly, lately. It WAS true at one point, but DC wised up and bought up all the rights, and since then they can do whatever they please.

Maven

[bfrank]

Actually, killing off Captain Marvel would be about the most horrible idea possible. Part of the point of the Marvel Family is the "family" aspect.

Of course, the Marvel Family really doesn't belong within the mainstream DCU anyhow, but that's a whole 'nother argument.

They'd still be a family, and Marvel dying is no more horrible than Flash, Batman, Wonder Woman or Aquaman...

[JeffreyWKramer]

They'd still be a family, and Marvel dying is no more horrible than Flash, Batman, Wonder Woman or Aquaman...

I agree with all the options being horrible, but having the father figure of the family be dead changes the family dynamic in a way which would be even more ruinous to those characters than would be the case with, say, having Garth take Arthur's place.

[davids]

In a recent JLA issue after a nasty fight with a new super powered female villian, A fight that wonder woman actually thought she was about to die. After her victory she went back to the watch tower and didn't get much comfort from her friends until she found superman. Who reasured her that he would never let her die, that he would push the earth back in time to prevent that ever happening![ toungue in cheeck, but he was telling her he would do anything'face any danger to prevent or correct just that thing from happening!}

Comic book rule, don't kill off a hero when their books are selling well and intrest is high. Do it when sales and intrest are low. Two she can not stay dead if it happens and how many times are they going to do that dead live dead live thing? Ever hear the saying once to often to the well!

[titanfan]

I love Donna Troy as much as everyone else, but I simply don't see her as Wonder Woman. Donna as Wonder Woman wouldn't be Wonder Woman to me.

[Grimm24]

I would find it funny if Aquaman got killed and replaced by AquaLad

[powergirl]

Well I think the significance of this time is that this he-she, like Barry Allen, will remain permanently dead for a good long while. With Allen however, they've found ways for him to guest star via time travel arcs every few years or so. And Considering they have a Wonder Woman movie coming out, I'm wondering how they will have her guest star ... go back to her being a goddess? *Shrug*
isn't the earth 2 WW a goddess?

[davids]

one way to wipe out all that golden age stuff that keeps getting in the way.

[We R. Venom]

I love Donna Troy as much as everyone else, but I simply don't see her as Wonder Woman. Donna as Wonder Woman wouldn't be Wonder Woman to me.

Thats because she's not wonder woman!! :evilangry

[We R. Venom]

I really do not think DC would kill one of the Big 3. This time they're just toying with us.

Dude, the idiots killed Superman!

[Nick Kal]

Dude, the idiots killed Superman!

No need to call them idiots. And true, but he came back. I don't think they'd attempt that on one of the Big 3 again.

[Captain Jim]

In a recent JLA issue after a nasty fight with a new super powered female villian, A fight that wonder woman actually thought she was about to die. After her victory she went back to the watch tower and didn't get much comfort from her friends until she found superman. Who reasured her that he would never let her die, that he would push the earth back in time to prevent that ever happening![ toungue in cheeck, but he was telling her he would do anything'face any danger to prevent or correct just that thing from happening!

That's a hoot; he just tried to kill her himself. :D

[Captain Jim]

For the record, unless there's been an update I haven't read, LITG didn't actually say WW would die, only that a major character would die.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

For the record, unless there's been an update I haven't read, LITG didn't actually say WW would die, only that a major character would die.


I think Dick's gonna go down sad to say. In Titans Tomorrow ( and ya know Dick would be involved somehow) Dick never even shows up. Its Tim as Batman. So I think Dick will die in some brave way and Tim as an honor to the man he followed as Robin will assume the Nightwing mantle. ( Tim will be 18 by One Year Later)

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I don´t care anymore.
They killed Blue Beetle.
The inocence is gone.
They can kill the entire JLA roster, for all I care.

Except WW, keep your fingers OFF her, I plan on drawing her when I get my feet on the door. :cool:

[powergirl]

I think Dick's gonna go down sad to say. In Titans Tomorrow ( and ya know Dick would be involved somehow) Dick never even shows up. Its Tim as Batman. So I think Dick will die in some brave way and Tim as an honor to the man he followed as Robin will assume the Nightwing mantle. ( Tim will be 18 by One Year Later)


major character... that wont cause ripples.. name recognition outside of comics...
most people know robin as dick grayson.. nuff said....

[Pennyghost]

I don't think that "They killed Superman" counts. Since it always seemed to me that even they killed him, it was always about publicity and they had his return story already mapped out and were just letting the readers stew for a bit.

[Gaz]

I think Dick's gonna go down sad to say. In Titans Tomorrow ( and ya know Dick would be involved somehow) Dick never even shows up. Its Tim as Batman. So I think Dick will die in some brave way and Tim as an honor to the man he followed as Robin will assume the Nightwing mantle. ( Tim will be 18 by One Year Later)
It's also possible that that Batman had a "disagreement" with Nightwing, and that's why Dick wasn't there, on account of being dead.

[JeffreyWKramer]

For the record, unless there's been an update I haven't read, LITG didn't actually say WW would die, only that a major character would die.


Indeed, the thread of this topic on the LitG Forum included some statements from Rucka's board attributed to Rucka, in which he said Wonder Woman is always going to be Diana, and only Diana. Those interested, check out the thread there.

[Jkid099]

The recent LITG stated that Wonder Woman would be re-started with a volume three. As it would be plausible for this to suggest a major re-vamp (and it being stated that it would be a bit different) in regards to WW, it is also possible that it is she that is going to be the one who dies and replaced by Donna Troy.

Of course ... if Greg Rucka has full out stated that she is not going to die, then never mind. *Shrug*

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Indeed, the thread of this topic on the LitG Forum included some statements from Rucka's board attributed to Rucka, in which he said Wonder Woman is always going to be Diana, and only Diana. Those interested, check out the thread there.


Yep...and Rucka's cool. Thank you for pretty much doing the best run on WW since ...Perez. I'll be happy to keep pulling Wonder Woman. :)

[SUPERECWFAN1]

major character... that wont cause ripples.. name recognition outside of comics...
most people know robin as dick grayson.. nuff said....


What better way to snuff him. Beside's DC will claim once he's gone..." You can read about Dick Grayson as Robin in ALL-Star Batman & Robin each month ! "

[Altered Ego]

I read somewhere that Bruce Wayne was going to be admitted into Arkham and Dick would take over as Batman in OYL.
I also read that the Nightwing title would still continue.

[LukeRed5]

I really hope none of the major heros die. There is no reason to do this. Does anyone think Power Girl may die now that the "real" Supergirl has arrived?

[Altered Ego]

I don't think DC would advertise Power Girl dieing as a major hero.
That said, I think PG is safe.

[trickster]

Yes. My problem is with bringing Troia in as a replacement. They'll need a flow chart in the beginning of each new Wonder Woman comic just to explain to fans what the hell is going on.


No they won't. Newcomers won't really care ("It's wonder woman") and long time comic fans will know Donna Troy was Wonder Girl before becoming Wonder Woman.

[Lorendiac]

But if all DC titles are doing the One Year Later thing, wouldn't they all restart at #1?

I don't follow. Why would they think they needed to do that? When John Ostrander did the "One Year Later" thing in his "Suicide Squad" series in the early 90s, DC didn't insist on renumbering as the start of a "new" series. One issue simply opened up 12 months of continuity-time after the final page of the previous issue.

And when DC rebooted Superman from scratch in the mid-80s, they threw away all of his old continuity, but didn't renumber. "Action Comics" kept going strong with the same numbering. "Superman" got changed to "Adventures of Superman," but kept the same numbering. A new "Superman #1" was published, but that was the start of a new series instead of just changing the numbers on an old one.

[powergirl]

I really hope none of the major heros die. There is no reason to do this. Does anyone think Power Girl may die now that the "real" Supergirl has arrived?


powergirl might be one of the casulties of the crisis but she's not the major hero that she could have been.....
i think linda danvers is gonna bite it tho...

and we'll will see a version of this cover agian...

http://garaje.ya.com/supy55/supergirl79.jpg
it wouldnt surprise me if a lot of the redunat second and third generation sidekicks get bumped off leading up to dick graysons death...

power girl, kyle raydner, linda danvers, who else have i missed?

[Taskmaster]

powergirl might be one of the casulties of the crisis but she's not the major hero that she could have been.....
i think linda danvers is gonna bite it tho...

and we'll will see a version of this cover agian...

http://garaje.ya.com/supy55/supergirl79.jpg
it wouldnt surprise me if a lot of the redunat second and third generation sidekicks get bumped off leading up to dick graysons death...

power girl, kyle raydner, linda danvers, who else have i missed?


Has Linda Danver's even been seen since the end of her series

[Lorendiac]

I've been trying to take a "fresh look" at my own proposed ballot. I feel certain that Superman, Batman, and Dick Grayson are "off limits." I'm torn on the subject of Wonder Woman. When Barry Allen was sacrificed, he had never had his own TV show, never had his own movie. (Ironically, he got his own TV show well after he had been sacrificed in the comic books.) Wonder Woman has had her own TV show (I've actually watched all of Season 1 on DVD) and is supposed to get her own movie one of these days. To me, that is strong reason to put her in the "Untouchable" category of characters who can't be killed permanently, just like Superman and Batman. But I'm not absolutely sure DC would agree with me on that, given that she just isn't as high-profile a cultural icon as Supes or Bats.

If not Wonder Woman, then from those further down on the list, Elongated Man seems the most "obvious" choice if I simply ask myself "Who's Expendable?" His wife got slaughtered; what's he got to live for? He only started out as a Plastic Man knockoff anyway, because the guys working on the Flash title in those days apparently didn't realize that DC already had purchased the rights to the old Plastic Man character!

But I don't know where his "successor" would come from.

Failing those, I think I favor either Zatanna or the Martian Manhunter. (Why would Zatanna's successor call herself the New Zatanna, though? Zatanna isn't a name that actually carries any special meaning, unlike "Wonder Woman" or "Green Lantern," for instance. It's only her real first name!)

I am wondering if it's worth the trouble of trying to set up some sort of elaborate poll on another website - something that would let people "punch the ballot" for their first, second, and third choices, all at once.

[Captain Jim]

To reiterate what I said in the original thread, I would only consider the first six to be "major". I think you need to have a long history of carrying your own title and be somewhat known outside of the comic industry to really qualify. Your mileage may vary. ;)

[Lex]

What gets me is the part of the rumor that says this event will launch a mini-series which will turn into an ongoing. To me that says that it isn't a character that has a current ongoing series.

I guess they could cancel a current ongoing for the One Year Later thing and then start it back up as a mini with this new character. But that seems needlessly complex.

[Reggie Swats]

It better not be Ollie. After all the work Kevin Smith put into bringing him back in a believable way, that would be a real shame.

Seems like Diana, but I don't think there will be any repeat deaths in the new crisis, so she's probably not going to. If they replaced her with Donna I really wouldn't mind at all, since I prefer her character anyway.

[mattinthehatt]

Hi.

I think IC is stupid. I know what's going on, and some of the fallout of IC.

SPOILER:
What's happening: Another reality is encroaching on the DC Universe, and the DC heroes have to fight back.

Fallout: When the other universe is defeated, all the magical heroes will be gone, and the Flash title will be cancelled. Presumably because the Flash dies

End Spoiler

Matt In The Hatt

[benking]

Hi.

I think IC is stupid. I know what's going on, and some of the fallout of IC.

SPOILER:
What's happening: Another reality is encroaching on the DC Universe, and the DC heroes have to fight back.

Fallout: When the other universe is defeated, all the magical heroes will be gone, and the Flash title will be cancelled. Presumably because the Flash dies

End Spoiler

Matt In The Hatt

That's interesting. How do you know? Or is this just your speculation? If it's just specultion, no need to couch it as a "spoiler".

[Jkid099]

Sounds more like speculation to me. Doesn't really match up with a lot of the stuff said about IC and what happens afterwards.

[LukeRed5]

Sounds more like speculation to me. Doesn't really match up with a lot of the stuff said about IC and what happens afterwards.

I agree. No way is that character getting killed off.

[Jim Yost]

God help me if somebody already said this (dont have time to read every post), but one of the motives of the ICs (Identity & Infinite) seems to be to create a way that all the Pre-CoIE stories actually fit into Post-CoIE continuity.

If so, consider this - kill Diana and have Donna become Wonder Woman, and what happens? Well, now Wonder Girl is Wonder Woman when she was younger... which is the ORIGINAL pre-Crisis story! So how's that?

[Sk8maven]

The word is, "major character", not "major hero". So, question time: who are the major VILLAINS of the DCU, and would any of them be able to support a mini that turns into an ongoing?

How about supporting characters? There WAS a time when both Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen had their own ongoing series - is there anyone with that potential nowadays?

Maven

[titanfan]

Major character could also be someone like Comissioner Gordon as well.

They could always kill off Joker and replace him with Harley Quinn or someone else. The Teen Titans future storyline had Joker dead with Duela Dent assuming the role....

[trickster]

Major characters. Deathstroke looks pretty major to me. He's one of the top dogs in the Society of Super Villains. He's got a possible successor lined up, his daughter. And a series about a gorgeous teen female hired killer would be great (at least for me). I mean if a series about a teen male superhero like Robin or Batgirl works, a series about a teen villain like the new Deathstroke would be amazing, given a good writer. A young villain bent on revenge that could make everyone's life hell, given the abilities she may have inherited from Deathstroke and the training she received from him. Besides, look what a great read Villains United is.

[noodleboy]

Zatanna...can't they just make Black Alice her successor?? This kind of would go along with the pattern of unknown's taking over (sans Wally of course). Also, "Major Character" is all a matter of opinion, it doesn't mean the big three, but it could be the '7'.

[hotrodimus]

well i actually lost my trust to them when they claim that someone "major" is going to bite the dust.. because of identity crisis.. i mean they really hyped that one up that some really big is going die.. favorite guess was kyle rayner... but then it was someone we havent seen in years.. so in dunno.. this maybe all hype again.. but i certainly hope not. the momentum of dc is really strong..

[Jeff O.]

I read somewhere that Bruce Wayne was going to be admitted into Arkham and Dick would take over as Batman in OYL.
I also read that the Nightwing title would still continue.

Yeah, when I read that, it made me wonder if there was any chance that Superman would reclaim the mantle of Nightwing for a time.

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

Thanks to the complex twists of Infinite Crisis and House of M, Wonder Woman dies and is replaced by Jean Grey from the X-men.



Ok that sounded more believable coming from the little leprechaun on my shoulder.

[titanfan]

i mean they really hyped that one up that some really big is going die..

They actually didn't....it was the fans who took it that way. If you go back and look at all of the Infinite Crisis articles/interviews, they emphasized the story begun with a death and was a murder mystery--but they never hyped up the identity of the person dying. In fact in one interview Meltzler cautioned that the death might not be that big of a deal to most comic book fans.

[Keith_Martineau]

On the one hand, DC is making a strong effort to bring back Donna Troy. So, I could easily see her being groomed to replace Wonder Woman.

On the other, why would they go to all the trouble of hyping Wonder Woman like they have lately? Really, ending "Sacrifice" in her title, as opposed to OMAC or one of the Superman titles was a blatant way to draw attention to the Wonder Woman and her series. I didn't mind, because at the moment it's a good series and deserves the attention.

I may be wrong, but I'm leaning toward one of the goals of Infinite Crisis being pushing Wonder Woman to the forefront of the DC Universe.

I think the prominence is precisely because they're going to replace her. They're building her up so that when she DOES die, and is replaced, it's an even bigger deal than normal. Cause I mean, seriously, just HOW MANY F'n times has Wonder Woman been killed in the last few years? They're trying to make this one special and significant.

[Keith_Martineau]

Zatanna...can't they just make Black Alice her successor?? This kind of would go along with the pattern of unknown's taking over (sans Wally of course). Also, "Major Character" is all a matter of opinion, it doesn't mean the big three, but it could be the '7'.

They aren't going to off and replace one of Morrisons 7. What would be the point of letting him completely redefine and reinvigorate a character the way Morrison is, only to turn around and replace them?

[Devan74]

When I was at Wizard World Philly, I attended the DC panel that talked about upcoming titles which led up to Infinite Crisis. People were trying to get a clue on who may kick the bucket. People were just throwing out names (even Ambush Bug!:)
However, a big "oooohhhh" was shared collectively in the crowd when I think it was Dan Didio who said "lets just say the Flash and Crisis' have something in common." Think what you will from that, but me and my brothers immediately thought Wally West was dying and maybe somehow bring back Barry. I don't think Impulse/Kid Flash is up to carry the mantle of Flash. However, in recent story lines Wally has been on his back to mature and his death could be motivating factor for KF to wise up.

This was my guess, too, and I didn't even go to Wizard World. :cool:

[Lorendiac]

On the subject of Wonder Woman as a candidate for the Major Character who will bite the dust and be replaced, Keith said:

I think the prominence is precisely because they're going to replace her. They're building her up so that when she DOES die, and is replaced, it's an even bigger deal than normal. Cause I mean, seriously, just HOW MANY F'n times has Wonder Woman been killed in the last few years? They're trying to make this one special and significant.

On the subject of Zatanna as a candidate for the Major Character who will bite the dust and be replaced, Keith said:

They aren't going to off and replace one of Morrisons 7. What would be the point of letting him completely redefine and reinvigorate a character the way Morrison is, only to turn around and replace them?

It seems to me that these two ideas contradict one another a bit. You think they're really "building her up" (Wonder Woman) so they can kill and replace her and have it be a really big event. Then you admit that Morrison is redefining and reinvigorating the character of Zatanna, but you deny there's any real possibility that he could be doing this in order to really build her up so it will look like a really big event when they kill and replace her? Is it just me, or is your personal bias showing here? It can easily happen to Diana, but the exact same thing can't possibly happen to Zatanna instead? :)

If they kill Diana off and replace her as Wonder Woman, permanently (or even for the next five or six years of realtime publication of the Wonder Woman comics), then I freely admit I will be very impressed by their courage.

But frankly, I don't think they have that much courage. Zatanna strikes me as likelier - longtime comic book fans all know who she is, but typical citizen John Doe never heard of her in his life, or has long since forgotten any details of what he did hear, once upon a time.

Speaking of building a female character up just to shoot her down in a dramatic Grand Finale to her career, you've reminded me of the sad fate of the Pre-Crisis Supergirl 20 years ago, and something Marv Wolfman says about that in his introduction to the Crisis TPB collection. I believe he says that after that story came out, he'd run into unhappy Supergirl fans at conventions and there were two points that came up again and again in their feedback.

1. Many readers hated the idea that Superman's charming, cheerful cousin Kara had died at such a tender age.

2. Many readers conceded that the portion of "Crisis" that concentrated on Kara's character, giving her lots of dialogue, up to and including her death scene I suppose, was the best-written Supergirl story they had ever read.

I tend to agree with both of those statements, myself! I have an almost-complete run of the early-80s Supergirl series that was written by Paul Kupperberg, for instance, and I'm not too crazy about it. My feeling is that the lesson to be learned is very simple: If a really first-class storyteller, such as Marv Wolfman as he was in the early 1980s, had been writing the monthly Supergirl book, she might have been so popular that DC never would have seriously considered letting her get killed off and then erased from continuity by Crisis. (Granted, it probably also would have helped if her movie around that time had been better written and thus more successful at the box office.)

So I guess the question is: Which possible "Major Character" on my sample ballot has been so badly written lately that DC's editorial staff might have given the green light to killing her off, on the grounds that she isn't really a huge asset to the company anyway? I haven't read Wonder Woman's stuff in years, so I don't know if she qualifies. Zatanna probably does, however (prior to Morrison's arrival, I mean). Others probably qualify.

[Firemane]

The idea of the Flash being the one wouldn`t be surprising. Before the original Crisis didn`t Barry put is life back together and the series ended with a happily ever after tone only for Barry to die.

The other option is that it will be Wonder Woman, simply because that is where SUperman will fail... he will break his promise to her and let her die, probably because of Wonder Woman 219.

[Joe Grendel]

The idea of the Flash being the one wouldn`t be surprising. Before the original Crisis didn`t Barry put is life back together and the series ended with a happily ever after tone only for Barry to die.
Yep. After that long, long trial storyline, they did a sudden 180 in "The Flash" and gave him a quick happy ending. (I suspect the original intention had been for the story to go longer and have a more complicated redemption for Barry.) But yeah, they wrapped him up and gave him a happy ending in his own book before taking him off stage (in theory) in "Crisis."

[powergirl]

power girl might die and be replaced in the costume by a younger supergirl who finds out she isn't clark kents cousin after all...

[chriskenny]

power girl might die and be replaced in the costume by a younger supergirl who finds out she isn't clark kents cousin after all...

Not likely. She just got her own ongoing and it seems the editorial edict was to streamline Supergirl, and not confuse her origins with false origins. Which, by the way, is exactly the problem with Power Girl they are just getting around to fixing. I would be surprised if they were doing that.

[chriskenny]

That's interesting. How do you know? Or is this just your speculation? If it's just specultion, no need to couch it as a "spoiler".

yeah, I heard magic characters might get their own book called Shadowpact so they aren't dying. I have not heard ANYWHERE that The Flash is getting cancelled.

The only thing I heard about the main DCU books (ie, the Big Seven) is that Wonder Woman is getting a new #1, which leads me to believe that she is going to be the new one who gets a new ID. Makes sense that she dies and is replaced, so they start her book off on a clean slate...

[Captain Jim]

well i actually lost my trust to them when they claim that someone "major" is going to bite the dust.. because of identity crisis.. i mean they really hyped that one up that some really big is going die.. favorite guess was kyle rayner... but then it was someone we havent seen in years.. so in dunno.. this maybe all hype again.. but i certainly hope not. the momentum of dc is really strong..

From DC's perspective, the big death in IC was Jack Drake, not Sue Dibney. It was Drake that he was specifically asked to kill.

[Kevinroc]

From DC's perspective, the big death in IC was Jack Drake, not Sue Dibney. It was Drake that he was specifically asked to kill.

Out of curiousity, where did you learn that?

[Captain Jim]

Admittedly this is information that I inferred, but not without good reason. Meltzer stated that he was specifically asked to kill a particular character (whom he wouldn't identify). He said he wasn't interested in simply killing this character off out of the blue, and initially declined. Then he thought up what he believed to be a really novel way of doing it, recontacted DC and got the job. Everyone assumed it was Sue because she was the focus of the first issue. But nobody could figure it out because they couldn't imagine why DC would want Sue dead (with good reason). Add to this the fact that Jack's death was the focus of the covers of both #5 & 6.

The clincher, however, were the posts by Chuck Dixon on his message board immediately after Drake was killed. Chuck (who wrote around the first 100 issues of Robin's book) stated that DC had tried to get him to kill Jack for years, but that he had always refused. He said DC wanted him dead because they thought Jack complicated Robin's life. Chuck stated that he wanted to keep him alive for precisely the same reason.

Tim had always said this crimefighting thing was not something he wanted to do long-term, and he never wanted to succeed Batman in that role. As soon as Jack died, DC made it clear that this had all changed.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I think Its Dick that dies as I've said before in the other thread. Look at where Tim is at and where DC Is going with Titans. They nearly have all the members back to thier orginal ways. Then you have Drake as Robin. Who is missing from this picture ? Nightwing....so I can see Dick dying a brave death and Tim picking up the mantle.

[sparky828]

I'm betting on Aquaman replaced by Tempest, but I'm hedging the bet on the Nightwing/Tim Drake possibility. No way they are offing WW only to replace her with Donna Troy.

Well, no way they should off WW to replace her with Donna Troy anyway. She was great in the Wolfman/Perez New Teen Titans, but the back-breaking contortions they had to perform to justify her continued existence post-CRISIS (and more specifically, post-LEGENDS -- remember that series?), not to mention the unforgiveable lopping off of those gorgeous locks and the new name TROIA (!?!?!?) just made her tiresome.

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

I admit I haven't been able to read all the posts or check into everything like some of you but I do have to wonder what if it isn't a superhero character but one of the major characters that are in the superheroes' lives?

Like say Lois died? But then you ask what about the replacement? Maybe after a time of mourning Superman turns to Lana? (Do not go ballistic on me. It's just a thought!!)

Unless it's been said that a superhero major character dies then why not one of the friends, wives, butler major characters?

But like I admit I haven't read everything on this so if it's been discussed and dismissed then sorry or if it is completely impossible due to the way DC has let it leak then I also apologize.:D

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

A major character doesn't necessarily mean one of the heroes espcially in different people's opinion. Plus can you imagaine the ramifications that could happen to Batman if Alfred was killed or to Superman if Lois did die? That much power crazed with grief and a desire for revenge.

[grendel824]

The only possible complication to offing Wonder Woman (an otherwise easy one to do, as she could be more easily resurrected in the future than most) is that DC legally NEEDS to publish a regular Wonder Woman book in order to keep the character - I wonder if this Wonder Woman HAS TO be Diana Prince, or would a replacement work just as well for the terms to apply long term (as I remember, her replacement as Wonder Woman still coincided with Diana being around in the book, so bringing that up doesn't hurt the case, necessarily). Anyone able to comment on this that knows their stuff?

[Paul Newell]

The only possible complication to offing Wonder Woman (an otherwise easy one to do, as she could be more easily resurrected in the future than most) is that DC legally NEEDS to publish a regular Wonder Woman book in order to keep the character

That's no longer the case. From Comics should be good (http://goodcomics.blogspot.com/2005/06/comic-book-urban-legend-revealed-1.html):

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: DC must publish at least four issues of Wonder Woman a year or else lose the rights to the property.

STATUS: False

It has long been said that if DC did not publish Wonder Woman at least four times a year, that the rights would revert back to the estate of William Moulton Marston, creator of Wonder Woman.

Writer Kurt Busiek addressed the rumors earlier this year, They are no longer true, but they were true for a long time — as I understand it, the terms were that DC had to publish at least four issues with "Wonder Woman" as the banner lead feature or rights would revert. That's why DC did the LEGEND OF WONDER WOMAN mini-series that I wrote and Trina Robbins drew — the Perez revamp was in development, but coming along slowly, and they had to publish something to fulfil the contract terms.

They specifically didn't want something that would be attention-getting, because they didn't want to undercut the revamp. So they wanted something gentle and nostalgic, and we had fun doing it.

In the intervening years, though, I'm given to understand that at some point DC bought the character outright, and thus those contract terms are no longer in force.

[grendel824]

Interesting - at the last WizardWorld L.A. Geoff Johns and Steve Wacker told me that the "having to publish Wonder Woman" thing was still going on.

[MWGallaher]

From DC's perspective, the big death in IC was Jack Drake, not Sue Dibney. It was Drake that he was specifically asked to kill.
I don't think so. Just because he killed off a character in IC does not meant that is the character he was asked to kill in the first place.

As far as I know, Brad Meltzer has never said who he was asked to kill off, something like two years before IC was published. What we do know, from what he has said, is that he first rejected the job, because (at least partially) he "liked" said character. Seems unlikely that a Bronze Age fan like him would have had any affection for Drake. What we also know is that, after thinking about it, he came back to DC with the IC plot, which, from the beginning, had the guilty party about whom we readers of IC know.

My guess is that he was asked to kill off the Atom. He declined, but then came up with a story (deeply involved with his supporting cast) that would motivate the Atom to disappear, forever if need be, but without killing him explicitly.

[Harry]

It's the obvious choice, but my money's on Diana replaced by Donna. It'd be cool to see Diana become the new Spectre maybe as well.

What I'd LIKE to see though is Lex Luthor replaced by Superboy.

[powergirl]

my moneys on dick grayson.... nightwing is expenable and more people remeber dick as robin....plus jason todd needs a heroic name if hes sticking around... and it would be poetic justice if he replaced dick twice....
plus most people dont realize robin is drake now.. they'd go dick grayson died? robin?

[bfrank]

I think Its Dick that dies as I've said before in the other thread. Look at where Tim is at and where DC Is going with Titans. They nearly have all the members back to thier orginal ways. Then you have Drake as Robin. Who is missing from this picture ? Nightwing....so I can see Dick dying a brave death and Tim picking up the mantle.

this does not make any sense...

what titans? Donna, Dick, Roy, Garth And Wally? They certainly are not "Wonder Girl, Robin, Speedy, Aqualad or Kid Flash"...

The new titans? Why would Nightwing be there in the first place? What original ways?

And fine Dick dies, Tim becomes nightwing...who is Robin? What problem is solved?

[LukeRed5]

The idea of the Flash being the one wouldn`t be surprising. Before the original Crisis didn`t Barry put is life back together and the series ended with a happily ever after tone only for Barry to die.

The other option is that it will be Wonder Woman, simply because that is where SUperman will fail... he will break his promise to her and let her die, probably because of Wonder Woman 219.

I remember a Wizard issue that showed upcoming storylines and it featured Infinite Crisis. A sketch was shown with the article and it had Superman crying in Diana's arms. If this is supposed a scence from Crisis, I'm thinking it's someone else who dies and not Diana.

[mattinthehatt]

A writer at DC found out from an editor there.

I'd prefer to not name names as I don't want people getting fired over this.

Matt In The Hatt
(I'll ask the writer if he'll let me "out" him.)

[powergirl]

this does not make any sense...

what titans? Donna, Dick, Roy, Garth And Wally? They certainly are not "Wonder Girl, Robin, Speedy, Aqualad or Kid Flash"...

The new titans? Why would Nightwing be there in the first place? What original ways?

And fine Dick dies, Tim becomes nightwing...who is Robin? What problem is solved?


jason todd become's nightwing.

[bfrank]

perhaps, however I don't think jason's gonna give up being the red hood for a while....

[PIMPurself]

Interesting - at the last WizardWorld L.A. Geoff Johns and Steve Wacker told me that the "having to publish Wonder Woman" thing was still going on.

Yeah, well if that is the case, there's always the All-Star Wonder Woman that they hinted much about at Chicago. But, as stated above that isn't the case.

[davids]

I remember a Wizard issue that showed upcoming storylines and it featured Infinite Crisis. A sketch was shown with the article and it had Superman crying in Diana's arms. If this is supposed a scence from Crisis, I'm thinking it's someone else who dies and not Diana.

I guess they got over the split, so if big blue needs comforting it could be the loss of mrs. Kent! But which one mama Kent or wifey kent, Martha or lois?

If it's mama Kent and you need another mama Kent to take her place it could be Mama lois! She did say she wanted a kid?

If it's Lois who will take her place in big blues heart, Lana [now free has a son named clark] Or Diana no longer wondr woman [for a while untill Lois shows up again. With Donna taking her sister's place as wonder woman untill Lois shows back up again.

Or if Lois dies, Clark could stop being superman for a while and superboy takes his place.

Then again if the golden age superman dies then the silver age superman takes his place but he never exsisted so the current superman takes both their places and...... my head hurts! Why oh why caint they make things more simple? Real life is complicated enough as it is!

[Sabrinaset]

POSSIBLE DEATHS IN "INFINITE CRISIS"

Superman dies, and is replaced by the Golden Age Superman. Hilarity ensues when Lois Lane starts sleeping with someone as old as her grandfather.

Hawkman dies, and is replaced with one of a score of other Hawkmen who appeared in Zero Hour. This splits the Internet in half, as no one wants to actually admit that they read Zero Hour. The X-Men stop reading Hawkman as even they can't follow his continuity.

Wonder Woman dies, and is replaced with Donna Troy, who then dies and is replaced with Cassie Sandsmark, who then trips on a banana peel and is replaced with Hippolyta. No one notices that Hippolyta was already dead as the editors are off vacationing in Acapulco.

The Flash dies and is replaced by Bart Allen. Geoff Jones immediately creats another Kid Flash so that Bart has a replacement in 20 years when he gets killed off in the next big DC Crossover.

Captain Marvel gets killed. He is replaced by a member of a star-faring race who changes identities when he slams his wristbands together.

Batman dies and is replaced by Ambush Bug.

[grendel824]

But, as stated above that isn't the case.

Only assuming that Kurt Busiek is automatically correct and Geoff Johns and Steve Wacker are automatically wrong (which is surely possible, of course). And also assuming that both I and whoever quoted Kurt recalled those quotes accurately (also well within the realm of likelihood). All decent assumptions, but nothing I'd bet anything important on.

[davids]

And Are Replaced By Themselves, But Start At The Very Begining And No Past Conections To Anybody.

[dazzler_slave]

I don't think so. Just because he killed off a character in IC does not meant that is the character he was asked to kill in the first place.

As far as I know, Brad Meltzer has never said who he was asked to kill off, something like two years before IC was published. What we do know, from what he has said, is that he first rejected the job, because (at least partially) he "liked" said character. Seems unlikely that a Bronze Age fan like him would have had any affection for Drake. What we also know is that, after thinking about it, he came back to DC with the IC plot, which, from the beginning, had the guilty party about whom we readers of IC know.

My guess is that he was asked to kill off the Atom. He declined, but then came up with a story (deeply involved with his supporting cast) that would motivate the Atom to disappear, forever if need be, but without killing him explicitly.

I think he was asked to kill off Firestorm. They were relaunching the series with a new character, but hadn't gotten around to explaining what happened to Ronnie so they asked him to do it. Being a fan of the sattelite years JLA he would have a fondness for the character. Maybe that is why Ronnie's death seemed so cheap. It was Melzter's F You to DC for demanding a character he likes getting killed

[trickster]

jason todd become's nightwing.

And he would do that because...?

[dazzler_slave]

POSSIBLE DEATHS IN "INFINITE CRISIS"

Superman dies, and is replaced by the Golden Age Superman. Hilarity ensues when Lois Lane starts sleeping with someone as old as her grandfather.

Hawkman dies, and is replaced with one of a score of other Hawkmen who appeared in Zero Hour. This splits the Internet in half, as no one wants to actually admit that they read Zero Hour. The X-Men stop reading Hawkman as even they can't follow his continuity.

Wonder Woman dies, and is replaced with Donna Troy, who then dies and is replaced with Cassie Sandsmark, who then trips on a banana peel and is replaced with Hippolyta. No one notices that Hippolyta was already dead as the editors are off vacationing in Acapulco.

The Flash dies and is replaced by Bart Allen. Geoff Jones immediately creats another Kid Flash so that Bart has a replacement in 20 years when he gets killed off in the next big DC Crossover.

Captain Marvel gets killed. He is replaced by a member of a star-faring race who changes identities when he slams his wristbands together.

Batman dies and is replaced by Ambush Bug.

LOL Awesome!! That pretty much sums it up! :D

[Sean Whitmore]

I think he was asked to kill off Firestorm. They were relaunching the series with a new character, but hadn't gotten around to explaining what happened to Ronnie so they asked him to do it. Being a fan of the sattelite years JLA he would have a fondness for the character. Maybe that is why Ronnie's death seemed so cheap. It was Melzter's F You to DC for demanding a character he likes getting killed


Besides being awfully petulant (which I haven't heard to be a trait of his), that would seem to be counter-productive to me. If Meltzer really liked the character and was killing him off against his wishes, wouldn't he want to write the best exit scene he could? Something to rival Barry's and Kara's deaths?


SEAN

[Captain Jim]

I don't think so. Just because he killed off a character in IC does not meant that is the character he was asked to kill in the first place.

As far as I know, Brad Meltzer has never said who he was asked to kill off, something like two years before IC was published. What we do know, from what he has said, is that he first rejected the job, because (at least partially) he "liked" said character. Seems unlikely that a Bronze Age fan like him would have had any affection for Drake. What we also know is that, after thinking about it, he came back to DC with the IC plot, which, from the beginning, had the guilty party about whom we readers of IC know.

My guess is that he was asked to kill off the Atom. He declined, but then came up with a story (deeply involved with his supporting cast) that would motivate the Atom to disappear, forever if need be, but without killing him explicitly.

But there's no evidence DC wanted Atom dead, nor does this make much sense. We *do* know that DC wanted Jack Drake dead, and had wanted him dead for some time, for specific reasons.

[benking]

Ok -- I just posted this over in the "Batman 644" thread on the Batman board, but it makes some sense here, too.

In case you don't know already, in Batman 644 it turns out that Leslie Thompkins purposefully withheld treatment from Stephanie ("the Spoiler") so that she would die, so no one else would want to become a caped crusader. End of spoiler.

And a lot of folks think that's a dumb story b/c the aforementioned person just wouldn't commit the aforementioned act. But I think that it is part of the puzzle that will result in DICK GRAYSON getting the axe in Infinite Crisis and not DIANA. Here's why:

Batman 644 is a step toward the Infinite Crisis result where Batman is crazy and locked in Arkham. It actually almost makes sense:

Gordon retires.
Stephanie dies.
Jason returns.
Stephanie dies b/c of Leslie T.
Wonder Woman kills Max Lord.
Nightwing is working for the mob.

THEN, over in GK, it looks like Alfred may have killed someone. Obviously, that story has not run its course, and it will probably turn out that Al didn't kill anyone, but maybe that's another nasty brick to put in Bat's pack.

NOW, here's the capper: You know how there's all this speculation that Infinite Crisis will result in a major hero being killed off and replaced by his/her next-in-line? The smart money is on Wonder Woman getting the axe, with Donna Troy replacing her. There's also the rumor that Dick G. will replace Bruce while Bruce is in Arkham. BUT, what if Dick G. gets the axe, and Robin replaces him, AND Batgirl replaces Bruce! Ha! That actually makes some sense -- they're constantly building Batgirl up as the biggest ass-kicker next to Bats (or better than Bats!), and she's said in her series a couple of times that she wants to replace Bruce one of these days.

So then Dick G. getting capped is the thing that pushes Bruce over the edge and into the looney bin for a while! The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. It's turning out that basically every decision Bruce ever made is going sour and that his world is turned to guana -- heck, I might go crazy my ownself.

I like this a lot better than Diana getting killed.

[Captain Jim]

Can't say I like it at all. It also seems like a strange way to follow up a summer blockbuster movie. Can't see a whole lot of people being interested in Cassandra as Batman either.

[Imperious Tex]

My guess is that it's the Atom who's going to die. He doesn't have an established "heir to the mantle" yet, but there was talk of a new Atom series there for a while and then it disappeared. However, one of the rumored series to be coming out of IC is "Ion," which a lot of people assumed would be something Kyle Rayner related. But, if you look at the definition of an ion, it's an atom with an electronic charge.

SO...I think a new character calling him or herself Ion will emerge from IC and get a new book that carries on Ray Palmer's legacy.

[chicagokmc]

perhaps, however I don't think jason's gonna give up being the red hood for a while....

well the way infinite crisis is being laid out, things will happen, then the 1 year fast forward, then the explanation of what happened in between. i think that fits the description of "a while"...this reset is truly a device for ending/resolving all current storylines.

[Super Sonic]

Death?


Do any of you think Batman could die in IC.

The reasons I think this is because,well everyone is turning there back on him,on the run up to IC.

Everything he's done has backfired on him,getting people killed,his life has gone to shit.

So do you think he could die in IC,for a heart warming remberance of how great he really was,and how wrong they were in turning their back.

---------------------------------------
Ultimate Hero?

For the same reasons as above,could he be the saviour in the end.
Helping all those who turned their backs on him,to realize how right/great he really is.

The man who alays had the right intention,who they left behind,but in the end was there saving grace.

Do you think he will be the one to end up saving them all,heroes and civilains?
----------------------------

Think any of the two are possible?

[da noble savage]

na they would never kill of bat's he's to much of a cash cow.
Plus he's not as easy to bring back as superman.

[prand_2002]

There are about 15-20 Bat related titles releasing every month. You think DC would kill a goose that lays golden eggs(ok that was a crappy metaphor). But a very interesting idea indeed. Bats should go down in a blaze of glory as he has been around since 1939. Any ideas on how he should go down?

[mohammedali]

He's not going to die... There's no chance of that whatsoever. At most he'll end up in Arkham Asylam and someone will take over for a time.

Mohammed Ali

[Detective27]

Or...same general idea of the JLA realizing they shouldn't have turned their back on him...he could just get beaten to within an inch of his life, I mean it might be obvious, but the way they're blowing this thing up...he won't make it through IC with just a few scratches...

[Guts/Batman]

Don't we already know he ends up in the nuthouse as a result of IC?

[ExoKnight]

Don't think they would kill off Bruce Wayne. Too much of an icon to be touched. Although this whole Brother I and OMAC project thing makes me wonder where the hell he finds the time for all these side projects. Seems that Batman's insecurities creates more of a problem than helps............Tower of Babel story arc?

[DracoMalfoy]

To be absolutely honest, I wouldn't MIND him dying. He's such an a-hole nowadays. And WAY too overexposed.

[RandallFlagg19]

Don't we already know he ends up in the nuthouse as a result of IC?

Where did you read this?

[MJC]

Don't we already know he ends up in the nuthouse as a result of IC?

That's just a rumor.

And DC will NEVER kill off Batman, at least not in any meaningful way.

[Guts/Batman]

That's just a rumor.

And DC will NEVER kill off Batman, at least not in any meaningful way.

Yea. I thought it was confirmed.

Btw, I read it on a few of the forums here.

[marshal99]

Batman + Infinity crisis = infinite batmen ?

Maybe one of batman's numerous counterparts will fill in like the invasion of the multiple batmen during zero hour. :D

http://www.quarterbin.net/img/rb5904.jpg

http://www.quarterbin.net/img/rb5902.jpg

http://www.quarterbin.net/img/rb5903.jpg

[celluloid_droid]

No Batdeath. Just Lois Lane and Wonder Woman.

[Deathlok]

I heard that Wonder Woman is suppose to die & Donna Troy will become the new the Wonder Woman.

[ghachey]

i am just getting back to comics after many years and due to money constraints i am forced just to buy tpb's when i can but i read here to keep current on the trends and storylines. anyway i agree that in all probablility Donna will replace Diana, however that does not mean Diana has to die yet again.
has it occured to anyone that with the killing of Max lord and the eventuall aftermath of ifinite crises that in an attempt to heal her self maybe spiritual and mentally she returns to paradise islands and fullfills the ambassador portion of her mission and makes it her sole activity for a while. Handing the duties of WonderWoman to a person who convulated history or not is like a sister to her in many ways and aspects. Who know's maybe even reinsigating the monarchy of the Amazons and taking her mother's place as Queen, i mean you can only stay a princess so long you know.
i do agree that someone else is going to die but when you take into account the current sales streak on WW and the upcoming movie killing Diana just doesn't add up. however let's look at what DC may consider qualifications for being a major hero. Having a solo title (doesn't mean it has to be a current series could be canceled), strong fan base (almost cult like you might say). and a relation to the major titles be it the big 3 or a long running team title (either in the family circle of books to the big 3 or a member of one of there many big team books). let's face it none of us really know what DC is using to qualify a character as a major hero in the DCU. in hindsight looking at just the few things i listed as possible qualifiers and the current only one supergirl tendiciy in DC and the new seperating effort between PG and SG well it doesn't look good for Linda /Matrix in my opinion

[Mulett]

I suppose it depends who you consider a major DC character, with a side-kick to take over from them should they bite the dust. By my guess, we have:

Superman/Superboy
Batman/Nightwing
Wonder Woman/Donna Troy
The Flash/Kid Flash
Hawkman/Golden Eagle
Aquamen/Tempest
Green Arrow/Arsenal/Speedy

I must admit, I would be very surprised if they killed off Diana and replaced her with Donna Troy mainly because (a) its a bit daft to kill off a major character when a major film is about to be made about them and (b) Donna Troy's back-story is such a complete mess.

My bet would be either Hawkman or Aquaman - I think Aquaman.

[DarkCrisis]

They better not kill Diana, she's awesome! Donna sucks!


Wonder Woman is one of the BIG 3. Would DC REALLY do something that frickin stupid?

You bet your arse they would. None of the deaths that have revolved around this new crisis have made any frickin sense what-so-ever. This would be par for the course for DC of late.

[Hellpop]

I agree that the upcoming WW movie makes it unlikely she'll actually die. DC will want her closest to the character the public identifies with. That's why they brought back Supergirl, and that's why they brought back Hal Jordan. Which would seem to lead us back to the Flash, and Barry Allen coming back....

Perhaps it's the Martian Manhunter, and he'll be replaced by Jemm, the Son of Saturn! Or perhaps it's the Joker, and he'll be replaced by Harley Quinn!

[DarkCrisis]

Concerning the Flash movie, I've heard it will be about Jay Garrick.

[Sk8maven]

I agree that the upcoming WW movie makes it unlikely she'll actually die. Only if the movie doesn't tank. The Supergirl movie tanked, and you know what happened to Kara Zor-El in Crisis.

Maven

[Mulett]

Only if the movie doesn't tank. The Supergirl movie tanked, and you know what happened to Kara Zor-El in Crisis.

Maven

But they killed off Supergirl after the movie flopped. I can't see them killing off Wonder Woman before her movie is even made. In business terms, it would be a really stupid thing to do. Imagine the problems DC would have with cross selling - the movie and related merchandise would be Wonder Woman, while the DC material would all be Donna Troy.

Likewise, Supes and Bats both have a film franchise to link to - so I think the Big Three are safe. It will be one the Justice League that dies, though.

Hal Jordan's only just come back from the dead and had his comic relaunched so killing him (again) would be pointless.

I think it leaves us with Flash, Hawkman or Aquaman. Wally's death would impact the most on the DC universe, but my money is still on Arthur Curry.

[titanfan]

Maybe a silly thought:

Most of the world thinks Donna Troy is dead. The heroes know she's back, but she probably hasn't made any major public appearances yet.

Diana and Donna are supposed to be basically twins.

Wonder Woman dies, Donna (her twin) pretends to be Wonder Woman/Diana to give the world hope (just like how people pretended to be Batman when he went MIA) and the rest of the world doesn't know the difference.

This way Donna becomes Wonder Woman, but basically changes her name to Diana. Problem easily solved.

[jade_nova]

Who says that a hero has to die? Why not a villian? I would like to see Lex Luthor die.

[TCJohnson]

But they killed off Supergirl after the movie flopped. I can't see them killing off Wonder Woman before her movie is even made. In business terms, it would be a really stupid thing to do.

Unless, of course, the plan is to have a huge event where she is brought back around the time of the movie.

[protege]

Maybe a silly thought:

Most of the world thinks Donna Troy is dead. The heroes know she's back, but she probably hasn't made any major public appearances yet.

Diana and Donna are supposed to be basically twins.

Wonder Woman dies, Donna (her twin) pretends to be Wonder Woman/Diana to give the world hope (just like how people pretended to be Batman when he went MIA) and the rest of the world doesn't know the difference.

This way Donna becomes Wonder Woman, but basically changes her name to Diana. Problem easily solved.
Not really, because those of us who have followed Donna Troy for years would KNOW the difference, and would still be scratching our heads at her back story. If they were going to put Donna in as WW, the thing to do would be to give her a new, definitive origin in Crisis. A bait and switch tactic would only make her story even more convoluted.

[J Dog]

Who's going to bite the dust?

If this has anything to do with Survivor!, it's

The Ulong Tribe, for they set the record for futility in every single aspect

But, it ain't, just to tell y'all.

[Hellpop]

This comes from the DC website, about Nightwing # #112:

"Meet Ravanger's new teacher... Dick Grayson!"

It's Nightwing. :(

[GremlinClr]

This comes from the DC website, about Nightwing # #112:

"Meet Ravanger's new teacher... Dick Grayson!"

It's Nightwing. :(

What?! It can't be Nightwing. It's already been said that OYL Batman is in Arkham and Dick takes over for him. He can't very well die if he's already been confirmed to live through the Crisis.

[bfrank]

I agree with all the options being horrible, but having the father figure of the family be dead changes the family dynamic in a way which would be even more ruinous to those characters than would be the case with, say, having Garth take Arthur's place.
I didn't say a thing about SHAZAM...I said Captain Marvel... the father figure would still be there...

However, perhaps it is ShAZAM that "croaks" (DoV)...to be replaced by Marvel (1,000,000)...

[trickster]

What?! It can't be Nightwing. It's already been said that OYL Batman is in Arkham and Dick takes over for him. He can't very well die if he's already been confirmed to live through the Crisis.

Unless it's been confirmed by DC, it's just a theory. Feel free to speculate :D, but don't pass this off as certain.

[GremlinClr]

Unless it's been confirmed by DC, it's just a theory. Feel free to speculate :D, but don't pass this off as certain.

Well, I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned at a Crisis panel at a comic con by DC muck-a-muc