Skeletor vs Ganon

[Alan2099]

Which evil Wizard that turned into a hideous monster takes this battle?

[Zeta]

Gannondorf loses to 10-year old boys dressed as Peter Pan. On the other hand, his plans generally progress much further than Skeletor's. Also, he seems more durable - it's bloody hard to kill him without the right tools.

Skeletor, on the other hand, is just a disfigured sorcerer. While Ganondorf is more of a force of nature.

I give it to the pig 7/10.

[Winterwolf]

I agree plus Skeletor has the unhealthy ability to only pick the most brain-dead henchmen on the planet...no help there.

Ganon 8/10

[Alan2099]

Still, when ganon ggoes down, he's gone. When Skeletor goes down, he'll be back by next Saturday morning as good as ever.

[Super Macho Man]

Still, when ganon ggoes down, he's gone. When Skeletor goes down, he'll be back by next Saturday morning as good as ever.
Unless his show is cancelled, which it was.

[Winterwolf]

Unless his show is cancelled, which it was.
Yeah but every so many years they try to bring a "new and improved" version of said show...it dies and the cycle of life continues... :)

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Gannondorf loses to 10-year old boys dressed as Peter Pan. On the other hand, his plans generally progress much further than Skeletor's. Also, he seems more durable - it's bloody hard to kill him without the right tools.

Skeletor, on the other hand, is just a disfigured sorcerer. While Ganondorf is more of a force of nature.

I give it to the pig 7/10.
What don't you people get? A lot of Legend of Zelda haters here.

[Super Macho Man]

Gannondorf loses to 10-year old boys dressed as Peter Pan. On the other hand, his plans generally progress much further than Skeletor's. Also, he seems more durable - it's bloody hard to kill him without the right tools.

Skeletor, on the other hand, is just a disfigured sorcerer. While Ganondorf is more of a force of nature.

I give it to the pig 7/10.
Link was 17 in Ocarina of Time.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

Link was 17 in Ocarina of Time.
And armed with three magical plot devices.

[Winterwolf]

I'd don't think anyone in this thread has given Skeletor the majority yet...I don't really see the Zelda "Hate" your speaking of. :confused:

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

I'd don't think anyone in this thread has given Skeletor the majority yet...
only Zeta has.

[Winterwolf]

only Zeta has.
actually he gave Ganon 7/10, you know "the pig" since Ganon often has piggy qualities especailly in the original Zelda games.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

actually he gave Ganon 7/10, you know "the pig" since Ganon often has piggy qualities especailly in the original Zelda games.
Read it over again, but he has said that Ganondorf keeps being beaten by a 10 year old.

[Winterwolf]

Read it over again, but he has said that Ganondorf keeps being beaten by a 10 year old.
and? So what, he still gave Ganon the victory. Sure Ganons been defeated by a kid so what if he is 10 or 17 or whatever.

[JCAll]

Still, when ganon ggoes down, he's gone. When Skeletor goes down, he'll be back by next Saturday morning as good as ever.

Gone?

Ganon has been going down for thousands of years, he always comes back. Kill him or seal him away, it doesn't matter. He'll break the seal, he'll be ressurected or reborn. He is never gone.

Skeletor does come back faster than Ganon though, but he goes down quicker too.

[BitVyper]

I'm gonna go with the guy who has been known to fight evenly with a class one hundred, wielding a plot device at least equal to the Master Sword. Also, doesn't old Skeletor have his own power sword?

At the very worst, Skeletor can create another Faker. I don't recall that being too difficult for him. I can't see Ganon being able to do much to someone wo is pretty much equal to oldschool He Man.

[BitVyper]

Gone?

Ganon has been going down for thousands of years, he always comes back. Kill him or seal him away, it doesn't matter. He'll break the seal, he'll be ressurected or reborn. He is never gone.

He's gone after Zelda I (which comes last, at least in the "vs Ganon" continuity). That Link reduced him to ash. It would have been possible to revive him, but the bad guys never managed to get ahold of Link's blood (which was required for the ressurection).

A Link to the Past is just that; a prequel, and OoT tells the story alluded to in ALttP, about Ganon's birth. Not sure exactly where Wind Waker fits in, but it seems to be after OoT, but before the others. That'd mean the others take place where ever the new Hyrule was founded.

Personally, I always preferred to think of them as separate continuities.

[Super Macho Man]

He's gone after Zelda I (which comes last, at least in the "vs Ganon" continuity). That Link reduced him to ash. It would have been possible to revive him, but the bad guys never managed to get ahold of Link's blood (which was required for the ressurection).

A Link to the Past is just that; a prequel, and OoT tells the story alluded to in ALttP, about Ganon's birth. Not sure exactly where Wind Waker fits in, but it seems to be after OoT, but before the others. That'd mean the others take place where ever the new Hyrule was founded.

Personally, I always preferred to think of them as separate continuities.
Well, from what I've heard, in the Zelda fan community, there are 3 continuities:
Link the I, Link the II, and Link the III, and it's even divided up according to Nintendo generations.

[BitVyper]

In any case, Zelda I/II Link *did* put a permanent end to him. That's all I was pointing out; he's not unkillable.

[JCAll]

BitVyper, that continuity is horrable. it just cannot have happened that way, it makes no scence, and I can't even understand how that perticulat continuity got started.

It would completely have to ignore any and all plot in LttP and OoT to fit together that way. Period.

Ganon has died 4 times. LoZ, LttP, WW, and FSA(I think). These were all the permanent kind of death.

He came back. He always comes back, and will as long as Nintendo makes Zelda games.

Ganon hinted at the possibility of reincarnation in WW. Saying something about how the Hero of Winds was the Hero of Time reborn. Since Links are reborn, Zeldas and Ganon are probably reborn as well.
Thus, even if he dies, he is reborn. He is not technically the same person, but he is still Ganon.

Yeah, I'm reaching, but it makes sence.

[BitVyper]

BitVyper, that continuity is horrable. it just cannot have happened that way, it makes no scence, and I can't even understand how that perticulat continuity got started.

It makes perfect sense. I explained how it makes sense. You have done nothing to refute it. As for how it got started; I just made a few logical deductions:

1. Ganon is dead after Zelda 1. This is part of the plot for Zelda 2. Anyone trying to ressurect Ganon was dead after Zelda 2, as was anyone that would know how, and could possibly have the power. He's dead dead dead; not sealed, not hiding, but dead. Previously, the Master Sword has only ever sealed him up, never reduced him to ash.

2. Even if we pretend that Ganon was somehow ressurected after Zelda 2, it doesn't explain why ALttP Ganon was only sealed in the Dark World, and had the entire Triforce. It also doesn't explain why allusions to the past refer to events of OoT.

3. ALttP is clearly intended to be a prequel, hence the title. We know that OoT MUST occur before ALttP, as the events of it are alluded to by that little tree in the Dark World.

4. We also know that Wind Waker occurs after OoT, because you actually travel to locations from OoT, and hear the entire story of OoT as exposition. Wind Waker is also evidence that Ganon has not been killed in OoT, thanks to this.

5. It wouldn't make sense to believe that Wind Waker occurred after any other Zelda games, as the only legends referred to in it, are of the Hero of Time. Had Ganon come back several times since then, there would have been other legends, and other famous heroes, probably better known than the original. The most logical spot to place Wind Waker in the continuity, is after OoT, but many years before the other two games (after the new Hyrule they talked about had been created). It is possible that it could have occurred after ALttP, but unlikely, as the legend of the Hero of Time is still very prominent in Wind Waker, while only one brief reference exists to it in ALttP, and it is known only to an extremely old being on another plane of existence.

6. If there was any doubt, it is absolutely necessary that OoT must have occurred first, as the thief, Ganondorf, who would eventually become Ganon, was actually born in this time. We witness his transformation into Ganon at the end of the game. OoT is the story of how he ascended to power, referred to by ALttP.

7. He was called Ganondorf before being called Ganon. Again, we know this thanks to ALttP. In Zelda 1, he is never once referred to as Ganondorf, in ALttP, he is only referred to in that manner once or twice by people who know the legend. In Wind Waker, the name is used a bit more, and in OoT, we hardly hear the name Ganon at all.

The logical order then, is OoT >>> Wind Waker >>> ALttP >>> Zelda 1.


Ganon hinted at the possibility of reincarnation in WW. Saying something about how the Hero of Winds was the Hero of Time reborn. Since Links are reborn, Zeldas and Ganon are probably reborn as well.

So basically, while I made up a theory (one that I don't actually agree with, by the way) based on several logical deductions, you took one line of loose text, and interpreted it to create an entire continuity? Oh, and we KNOW that Ganon was sealed before ALttP. Actually, you haven't even given any kind of continuity for it. Even if he was just being ressurected each time:

1. Logic would still dictate that it follows my continuity.

2. We would still know that he was permanently dead after Zelda 1 with only one chance of being raised. And there is no evidence that it ever happened, and in fact, evidence to the contrary, as Link defeated everyone who wanted Ganon back.

Like I said, I prefer to think of each game as a separate continuity. The only point I was trying to make before, is that Ganon can be killed. Really, your idea just backs up my point, and nothing else.

[Zeta]

Actually, while there is debate on if it's the same Link or Zelda (it's generally agreed upon it's not) - there hasn't been anything to suggest there's been more than one Gannon terrorizing the landscape.

I also don't remember Gannon actually being KILLED often. Aside from the very first Zelda game, they mostly say he's been resealed or something. Which is why I think it would imply that Zelda I/II were the last two games in the series chronilogically speaking - Gannon's FINALLY been toasted for good. Everything else is just prequels filling in the time between the beginning of the shebang (OoT) and the end (Adventure of Link).

And yes, I love the Zelda games. I am, however, able to see the humor in the continent's most powerful socerer continually ressurecting himself only to have a boy who resembles Peter Pan stab him dead again. By all rights, Gannondorf should go catatonic with fear and shame whenever he sees a blonde kid dressed in green . . .

[BitVyper]

Just one more point:

My theory explains why Hyrule never looks the same.

[BitVyper]

Actually, while there is debate on if it's the same Link or Zelda (it's generally agreed upon it's not) - there hasn't been anything to suggest there's been more than one Gannon terrorizing the landscape.

I also don't remember Gannon actually being KILLED often. Aside from the very first Zelda game, they mostly say he's been resealed or something. Which is why I think it would imply that Zelda I/II were the last two games in the series chronilogically speaking - Gannon's FINALLY been toasted for good. Everything else is just prequels filling in the time between the beginning of the shebang (OoT) and the end (Adventure of Link).

And yes, I love the Zelda games. I am, however, able to see the humor in the continent's most powerful socerer continually ressurecting himself only to have a boy who resembles Peter Pan stab him dead again. By all rights, Gannondorf should go catatonic with fear and shame whenever he sees a blonde kid dressed in green . . .

I can see him in therapy now...

Incidentally, there is a wonderful fanfiction that you might like, if you're a Zelda fan. It's called, "My Dearest Enemy." It's short, but I really enjoyed it.

Edit: Have you seen the previews for the new Zelda game? It looks so awesome.

[JCAll]

Times Ganon has died:

LoZ, Got hit by the Magical Sword and shot by a Silver Arrow. He was reduced to Ash. He was tried to be revived in Zelda 2.

ALttP, he was hit with the Master Sword and shot with Silver Arrows repeatedly. He exploded. The Tri-Force said he was dead.

WW, he was stabed in the face with the Master Sword and turned to stone. We are not sure if he comes back from this. It may just be a really good seal, and not death. We'll see.

FSA, I don't know. I hear he was killed in this one, but I need to get it. I hear it's flashy though...

At least twice he died, probably three times, maybe four.


Okay, during the Imprisoning War, the Master Sword was forged to defeat Ganon. However, it is implied that nobody used it. While the wise men searched for somnone to weild it, Ganon attacked from Dark World. The knights took the full force of the attack, and were nearly destroyed. But while they fought, it gave the wise men enough time to seal the gate to the sacred realm.

What part of that sounds anything like OoT. The only similarity is the being sealed in the Sacred Realm part.

In LttP, Ganon was a theif and leader of a group of thieves that were skilled in the Black Arts. They accidently opened a gate into the Dark World, where Ganon fought his followers, killing them, and claimed the entire Tri-Force where upon it granted his wish.
In OoT, Ganon was leader of a race of thieves, though none seemingly skilled in any black arts, but Ganon was not actively a theif himself. Ganon manipulated Link to open the door on the Temple of Time where he entered and found a way to get to the Tri-Force. He did this knowingly, not accidently, and he didn't enter with any followers skilled in the black arts. He also didn't get the entire Tri-Force or get a wish, the Triforce split.

I LttP, the Master Sword was forged to defeat Ganon during the Imprisoning War. It was not used, as it was said that Ganon attacked while the wise men were still trying to find someone worthy of using it. Though it could have been used, the key word here is 'forged'.
In OoT, Link found the Master sword sealed behind the Door of Time. He then used it on his quest to defeat Ganon. The key word here is 'found'. In OoT, the Master Sword is already forged. It is waiting for someone to weild it. During the Imprisoning War it has just been forged and people are searching for someone to weild it.

In LttP, Ganon stayed in the Dark World, until the events of LttP. It was only several centuries after all. There is no record of him leaving after getting his wish or of him getting passed the seal after the Impressioning War. prior to LttP that is, and the seal to the Sacred Realm was still intact just before Agahnim appeared.
In OoT, Ganon returned nearly immediatly, conquering Hyrule. It was several years before Link, alone not with knights, arived to gather together the Sages. Link defeated Ganon with the Master Sword, and the Sages cast him into the Evil Realm and sealed him there. Of course the Evil Realm is the Dark World/Sarcred Realm.

Ganon in LttP apparently stayed in the Sacred Realm from the time of the Imprisonoing War until LttP, where he was killed(Dead, End).
Ganon in OoT was sealed away, escaped to which the Gods flooded the world because no hero appeared, was stabbed in the face with the Master Sword by Link and turned to stone, and covered with an oceans worth of water. He is either dead from that, or sealed in stone and trapped at the bottem of the ocean.

There is no similarity between OoT and the Imprisoning War. Thus, baring the mother of All RetCons, OoT is not the Imprisoning War.
All signs point to LttP coming before OoT.

Me and about a dozen other people are scouring message boards over the world disproving the OoT is the Imprisoning War theory, but we're not being taken seriously despite heavy evidence.

Other than that, I pretty much agree with you BitVyper. LoZ And AoL probably are the last two timeline wise. Maybe OoA and OoS came afterwards, since they talked of reviving Ganon not freeing him, but it all debateable and really doesn't matter.

However, there is nothing stopping Nintendo from making a game set after LoZ and AoL, but Zelda canon is so screwed up at this point that we probably wouldn't know it they did(see OoA and OoS).

Some other things I want to say are that Ganon and ganondorf have become almost interchangable at this point. His name is Ganondorf, but he is known as Ganon and writen into legend that way. Over time, the name of Ganondorf is all but forgotten.

Also, yes, I took 1 line of text and interpreted it my way, but is just a theory.
However my 1 line of text theory has no evidence that I know of to disprove it, while your timeline theory has plenty of evidence against it :D
I kid around. I would appreciate it if you would disprove my theory of reincarnation. Is there any evidence against it? Does anybody in Hyrule mention Heaven or Hell? It it ever said what happens after death in Hyrule? If you know, please disprove my theory. After all, we learn more from being wrong that from being right, even though being wrong sucks :D

I have no life and little more to do than sit around and overanalyse the Legend of Zelda.
I'm a sad, sad little man...

EDIT: Yes, Twlight Princess looks Awesome.

[CDTM]

Link was 17 in Ocarina of Time.

That's OOC, but the Windwaker version looked a lot younger.

[JCAll]

That's OOC, but the Windwaker version looked a lot younger.

Link's ages vary. Some are children(LoZ, WW), some are teenagers(AoL,LttP).

In WW he was 12, I believe.

[vile]

Saying that Ganon goes down and doesnt come back was just ignorant.

[Andross]

Ganon is dead after Zelda 1. This is part of the plot for Zelda 2. Anyone trying to ressurect Ganon was dead after Zelda 2, as was anyone that would know how, and could possibly have the power. He's dead dead dead; not sealed, not hiding, but dead. Previously, the Master Sword has only ever sealed him up, never reduced him to ash.

Ganon was totally DESTROYED in A link to the Past. How come this is less of a feat than the LoZ one? The Essence of the Triforce even tells you that Ganon is totally destroyed. Plus just because Ganon was reduced to ashes in the LoZ doesn't mean that is the end of him. There could be several ways to revive Ganon, and that could just be one, as we do know of another in the Oracle games.


ALttP is clearly intended to be a prequel, hence the title.

The NoA actually called it The Legend of Zelda: A link to the Past because they thought it sounded cool, and the backstory had a link into Hyrule's past.

The Japanese name however is called The Legend of Zelda: Triforce of the Gods.

However on both the Japanese and American boxes it states that this Link and Zelda in AlttP are the ancestors of the Link and Zelda from the LoZ/AoL. Still I don't get into timeline discussions. Everyone has their own and hardly anyone agrees with each other. I would rather just wait on Nintendo's decision on the matter (if ever) than speculate about it.


FSA, I don't know. I hear he was killed in this one, but I need to get it. I hear it's flashy though...

No he wasn't killed. He got imprisoned in the Four Sword blade like Vaati did at the start of the game. Ganon just gets imprisoned in this game.

However in OoS/OoA Ganon is at the beginning of the games dead, but it revived by Twinrova, but he then once again dies again after being revived.


Okay, during the Imprisoning War, the Master Sword was forged to defeat Ganon. However, it is implied that nobody used it.

That is where the NoA (also known as Nintendo of America) screw things up. According the Japanese manual it states that the Master Sword was forged before the Sealed War (Imprisoning War by American Terms) and it doesn't say if a hero did or didn't wield the blade. They just kind of left it open so that they could come back to it again if they wanted to.


While the wise men searched for somnone to weild it, Ganon attacked from Dark World. The knights took the full force of the attack, and were nearly destroyed. But while they fought, it gave the wise men enough time to seal the gate to the sacred realm.

How do you not know that the knights that were slain in Ocarina of Time weren't the knights they were speaking of in legend? In Ocarina of Time we do know that the knights of Hyurle were defeated and Ganondorf created his own castle so that he could rule over Hyrule. Also the Japanese manual states that it was Seven Sages not Seven Wise Men. Not that the NoA was wrong to go with "wise man" as a "sage" can be defined as a "wise man" but they had no idea on what gender these sages were.

I'm not here to say your wrong in your theory, but there is some things to consider.


In LttP, Ganon was a theif and leader of a group of thieves that were skilled in the Black Arts. They accidently opened a gate into the Dark World, where Ganon fought his followers, killing them, and claimed the entire Tri-Force where upon it granted his wish.

The Japanese manual doesn't state anything about Ganon being a man skilled in the black arts. It just mentioned that he was in a gang of thieves. The Japanese manual also goes further and says that Ganon opened the gate by chance, and that could be taken many different ways.


In OoT, Ganon was leader of a race of thieves, though none seemingly skilled in any black arts, but Ganon was not actively a theif himself.

Kotake and Koume were skilled in some sort of magic. Whether that be the black arts or not is up to whoever, but still like I said the Japanese just said he was the leader of a group of thieves, it doesn't state that they knew the black arts.


In LttP, Ganon stayed in the Dark World, until the events of LttP. It was only several centuries after all. There is no record of him leaving after getting his wish or of him getting passed the seal after the Impressioning War. prior to LttP that is, and the seal to the Sacred Realm was still intact just before Agahnim appeared.

The legends were also obscured by the mists of time, leaving Nintendo with yet another plot-device to stick in as many Zelda games before this one as they wanted. There is also alot of things wrong with the American manual compared to the Japanese, such as Agahnim just showing up (American version) to appearing from the sky like a comet (Japanese version) and being considered a wizard (American version to being considered a priest (Japanese version). Some of the reasons things were like this is because they didn't want to get into any religious discussions, but priest has two different meanings in Japanese. One could be a holy priest such as the Sage at the Sanctuary, or one could be evil like the ritual priest Agahnim. It's like comparing a priest who serves God to a priest that serves Satan. They are both priests, but that doesn't indicate that their beliefs are the same. Still the NoA had problems with this. Luckily none of their fanwork got put into the re-released version of A link to the Past.

[vile]

BitVyper, that continuity is horrable. it just cannot have happened that way, it makes no scence, and I can't even understand how that perticulat continuity got started.

It would completely have to ignore any and all plot in LttP and OoT to fit together that way. Period.

Ganon has died 4 times. LoZ, LttP, WW, and FSA(I think). These were all the permanent kind of death.

He came back. He always comes back, and will as long as Nintendo makes Zelda games.

Ganon hinted at the possibility of reincarnation in WW. Saying something about how the Hero of Winds was the Hero of Time reborn. Since Links are reborn, Zeldas and Ganon are probably reborn as well.
Thus, even if he dies, he is reborn. He is not technically the same person, but he is still Ganon.

Yeah, I'm reaching, but it makes sence.

Ganon was NOT killed in Four Swords Adventures. He is lcoked away in the seal of the Four Sword, much in the same fashion as Vaati was.

Ganon was supposedly killed in Legend Of Zelda on NES, however, he could be ressurected if the blood of Link was poured on his ashes as stated in the Adventure Of Link game & booklet japanese translations (thats why when you die, it says "RETURN OF GANON") so it wasn't a total killing of sorts.

Ganondorf had the master sword lodged into his skull at the end of Wind Waker and was turned into stone, but there's no evidence yet that it killed him for good. He could (and for any single timeline continuities sake, he'd have to) be revived somehow.

Ganon has been killed once, in A Link To The Past, arguabley twice if you want to count the original Legend of Zelda. Weither you believe he was revived by the blood of the fallen Link sometime after Adventure of Link is pure speculation. Other than that...

His appearence in Ocarina Of Time ended in banishment. His body's mindless ressurection in the Oracle series lead to banishment again. His appearence in Four Sword's Adventures lead to him being sealed inside the seal of the Four Sword. No deaths in those games, just defeat.

[O Wildish]

this thread not only goin off topic, but completely derailed... what was it about again... erm skeletor or ganondorf, how about a team up?:confused:

[Syrile Demonthyst]

this thread not only goin off topic, but completely derailed... what was it about again... erm skeletor or ganondorf, how about a team up?:confused:

This thread was also dead like 6 years ago...
So yeah... :)