Where were they when Superman was "killed" by Doomsday?

[Buried Alien]

One of the things about Superman's infamous "death" at the hands of Doomsday is that none of his most powerful allies were there to help him. Basically, Superman's only assistance was the Justice League "B-Team"...the Giffen Justice League with a few of its biggest guns missing. The only substantial help that Superman had were Bloodwynd (J'Onn J'Onzz in disguise) and Guy Gardner with his yellow power ring. Other than that, the other help was quite useless.

So where were the following other heroes who could have actually provided help?

Wonder Woman

Captain Marvel

GLs Hal Jordan and Alan Scott

Dr. Fate

Firestorm



Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Ultraman Max]

Hal was in space... I don't recall what he was doing but he was in space alot during that period.

Firestorm didn't exist on Earth at that point. Stien had been lost in space and Ronnie was powerless since the end of his series in 1989. Neither showed up again until Extreme Justice which was after Superman's death and return.

[Sanagi]

So where were the following other heroes who could have actually provided help?

Wonder WomanBubble bath.

Captain MarvelPlaying with legos in his room.

GLs Hal Jordan and Alan ScottCompeting to see who can make the grossest ring-construct.

Dr. FatePolishing his helmet.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

One of the things about Superman's infamous "death" at the hands of Doomsday is that none of his most powerful allies were there to help him. Basically, Superman's only assistance was the Justice League "B-Team"...the Giffen Justice League with a few of its biggest guns missing. The only substantial help that Superman had were Bloodwynd (J'Onn J'Onzz in disguise) and Guy Gardner with his yellow power ring. Other than that, the other help was quite useless.

So where were the following other heroes who could have actually provided help?

Wonder Woman

Captain Marvel

GLs Hal Jordan and Alan Scott

Dr. Fate

Firestorm

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

If memory serves...

Wonder Woman, Green Lantern & Flash were all in Russia at the time, fighting Sonar's takeover of the former Soviet Union. Things were so bad the JSA, including the original GL & Flash, had to be brought in to help.

Doctor Fate had just become Izna Nelson at the time and was still figuring out how her powers worked.

Firestorm didn't exist at the time. The Martin Stein elemental version had split from Ronnie Raymond and left our galaxy, leaving Ronnie powerless until Extreme Justice started up.

Captain Marvel was in limbo at the time, waiting for Jerry Ordway to finish painting "The Power of Shazam!" graphic novel.

[PrimalScream]

where was batman?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

where was batman?

He was either...

a) Sulking

b) Brooding

c) Grimacing.

[Sean Dulaney]

Captain Marvel was in limbo at the time, waiting for Jerry Ordway to finish painting "The Power of Shazam!" graphic novel.



From a hindsight/storyline perspective (since Cap did turn up in "Funeral For A Friend" group shots) perhaps Billy was stuck in a classroom and unable to duck out and say the magic word so he could help. After all, at the time of Doomsday's encounter with the JLA (Jurgens version), Superman was doing an interview with Cat Grant that was being broadcast to every school in the country. When Superman flew off, we can assume the networks would've go into 24/7 coverage and the teachers allowed the student to continue watching. (I base this on remembering how my teachers handled the Reagan shooting and the 1st shuttle disaster in the 80's.)

I know it will never be explained, but it is a fun little hypothetical. Shame DC doesn't have much room for Elseworlds anymore. So many places you could go with Billy having a bigger role in the Doomsday event.

[Buried Alien]

I know it will never be explained, but it is a fun little hypothetical. Shame DC doesn't have much room for Elseworlds anymore. So many places you could go with Billy having a bigger role in the Doomsday event.

Superman and Captain Marvel working in tandem could probably have overpowered Doomsday without any casualties on the heroes' side

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[lalalei2001]

Yeah, and they'd BOTH have died.

[Buried Alien]

Yeah, and they'd BOTH have died.

If Superman alone was able to stop Doomsday (albeit at the cost of Superman's life), it's not very logical to argue that what would effectively be TWO Supermen would get the same results. Superman and Captain Marvel would likely be seriously dinged up, but together, they could stop Doomsday without dying.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[lalalei2001]

But then there would be no 'Death of Superman'.

[PrimalScream]

He was either...

a) Sulking

b) Brooding

c) Grimacing.

that's why we love him i guess.

[SITHLORD]

where was batman?

I'm not sure Bats could have been any real help on short notice like that. He would have needed to analyze the situation a bit better. Hand to hand, Doomsday was just way too much.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I must have blocked it out but way I remember it, I don´t think Superman used his biggest asset in that battle: his brain.

He has countless resources at his disposal, yet he just went there, ducking it out as he he was the Hulk and got righteously served.

[Headhunter]

Very little from Death/Return of Superman made any sense. I still don't get how he sprang from the ocean and everyone thought "Oh, that dude's legit."

[Guts/Batman]

where was batman?

Batman would have been fairly useless. LOL

[Buried Alien]

Besides, Batman was on the verge of having some serious problems of his own: no sooner was Superman in his grave than did Batman begin heading down the dark path of KNIGHTFALL...his own version of DOOMSDAY.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[trickster]

Maybe he didn't discover he had a brain until Doomsday: Hunter Prey.

[Lorendiac]

I'm not sure Bats could have been any real help on short notice like that. He would have needed to analyze the situation a bit better. Hand to hand, Doomsday was just way too much.

I concur. Batman would have been as utterly useless against the previously-unknown threat of Doomsday as Blue Beetle was. (And the way Doomsday slammed Beetle around, logically his head should have been turned into mush and he should have died on the spot. The only reason he didn't die was because the story arc was all about The Death of Superman, and killing off any minor superheroes along the way would only distract people's attention from the main event.)

[foxfire]

Maxima fought Doomsday, right? Shes pretty powerful. Supergirl too... oh yeah her face did get turned to mush.

[SITHLORD]

I concur. Batman would have been as utterly useless against the previously-unknown threat of Doomsday as Blue Beetle was. (And the way Doomsday slammed Beetle around, logically his head should have been turned into mush and he should have died on the spot. The only reason he didn't die was because the story arc was all about The Death of Superman, and killing off any minor superheroes along the way would only distract people's attention from the main event.)

Exactly. Characters like Doomsday are meant for the "heavy hitters", like Supes, J'onn, or Captain Marvel.

[Lorendiac]

Maxima fought Doomsday, right? Shes pretty powerful. Supergirl too... oh yeah her face did get turned to mush.

Yeah - the way I remember that bit, Doomsday landed one punch on the Matrix Supergirl and promptly knocked her back into her "natural" condition as a bunch of pink protomatter and it was some time before she could even recover enough to transform back into her preferred form - blond hair, blue eyes, costume, etc. Obviously she was hopelessly outclassed if he could knock her out of the fight with a single blow.

[Guts/Batman]

Yep, Doomsday put her down with one punch.

[Michael P]

Exactly. Characters like Doomsday are meant for the "heavy hitters", like Supes, J'onn, or Captain Marvel.
Whereas guys like Ted, well...

[foxfire]

What about Captain Atom? What was he up to?

[Loren]

I don't think it's that unreasonable that other heroes didn't show up during the storyline. After all, the DCU gets hit with some new juggernaut of destruction every other week or so. Sure, Doomsday was cutting a swath through the countryside, but that's not exactly an unusual occurance, and I imagine that most heroes would just look at the situation, see Superman and the JL confronting it, and continue dealing with their own villains.

It wasn't until Doomsday made it to Metropolis that the situation became truly dire, and even then it probably looked to the outside observer like Superman was just having an unusually tough fight. It was when Superman actually *died* that everyone saw the situation with 20/20 hindsight.

If Superman had died and Doomsday had lived, then we could easily assume a bunch of other heroes would have come in to finish the job.

I wonder more why no other heroes showed up to help Batman during Knightfall. All of the Arkham inmates are set free on Gotham City, and no one cares? They just let Batman handle each villain, one-by-one? Over in "New Avengers," when the MU supervillain jail is busted open, that becomes a beacon for every available superhero to show up and try to help capture the escapees. But when it's Gotham's lunatic supervillains, everyone just said "Let Bats clean it up."

[SuperManny]

But when it's Gotham's lunatic supervillains, everyone just said "Let Bats clean it up."

Well, keep in mind Batman had preferred to operate in Gotham City alone. A non-meta interference. Wasn't that true? So I bet most of the superheroes thought "ehhh I'm sure Batman has a handle on it", or "Gotham City = Batman = not me".

He's a loner.

[Loren]

Well, keep in mind Batman had preferred to operate in Gotham City alone. A non-meta interference. Wasn't that true? So I bet most of the superheroes thought "ehhh I'm sure Batman has a handle on it", or "Gotham City = Batman = not me".

He's a loner.

But you'd think their duty to the public, or Batman's own feelings for protecting his city's citizens, would have kicked in at some point. A handful of crazies break out of Arkham? Sure, Batman has the ego to refuse help and the others might let him be.

But when *dozens* of established serial killers and psychotics are simultaneously running rampant around Gotham, that's not a Batman-level problem. The people of Gotham City are scared out of their wits (and justifiably so), and Batman can only deal with the baddies one-by-one. Judging by the length of the story arc, he must have spent at least a week or two, if not longer, trying to put all the psychos back behind bars. And during those weeks, while all of Gotham is living in terror, people are dying, and the national news is assuredly covering the crisis, NO other superheroes decided to pitch in and maybe catch a bad guy or two? And they declined because of Batman's ego?

[foxfire]

Kind of off topic, but I thought the explanation of why the JLA didnt help in No Mans Land was horse****. Especially one of those issues where Superman visits Gotham and Batman tells him to leave because he has everything under control and he has to many "contingency plans" that Superman would mess up. This right before Superman FREAKING CREATES RAIN to help out the starving citizens of Gotham to grow some crops. And Batman refuses that kind of help. Wow.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I dunno if I´m being fair, but MU heroes seems to be much more intertwined.

Sure there´s relationships in the DCU, everybody is somebody´s cousin, sidekick, etc, but when push comes to shove we have Ted Kord abandoned by his peers to go eat a bullet.

In the MU, I don´t know why but it feels like there´s a friendlier athmosphere between the heroes.
The government may decided to go after mutants but you just know you can count on Fury.
Dark Phoenix may be battling the X-Men but Spider-Man is running around NY with his spider sense tingling.

In the DCU, when the moment of truth comes, somehow it feels like it´s every cape for itself.

Please correct me if I´m wrong.

[PrimalScream]

I concur. Batman would have been as utterly useless against the previously-unknown threat of Doomsday as Blue Beetle was. (And the way Doomsday slammed Beetle around, logically his head should have been turned into mush and he should have died on the spot. The only reason he didn't die was because the story arc was all about The Death of Superman, and killing off any minor superheroes along the way would only distract people's attention from the main event.)

u would think if ur friend is fighting for his life alone on national tv against a supreme monster thing u would try ur best to help him.im surprised superman wasnt pissed off at all the heroes who could have helped but didnt.did they even attend his funeral?

[foxfire]

I dunno if I´m being fair, but MU heroes seems to be much more intertwined.

Sure there´s relationships in the DCU, everybody is somebody´s cousin, sidekick, etc, but when push comes to shove we have Ted Kord abandoned by his peers to go eat a bullet.

In the MU, I don´t know why but it feels like there´s a friendlier athmosphere between the heroes.
The government may decided to go after mutants but you just know you can count on Fury.
Dark Phoenix may be battling the X-Men but Spider-Man is running around NY with his spider sense tingling.

In the DCU, when the moment of truth comes, somehow it feels like it´s every cape for itself.

Please correct me if I´m wrong.

yeah I think thats kinda right. It seems the DC Big Three have each other's backs (until recently...) but everyone else gets shoved down the list. Of course, there are a ton of Marvel characters who couldnt care less about each other too, basically everyone created after the 60s.

[Pariah128]

is it just me, or did superman fight incredibly dumb against DD?

[foxfire]

is it just me, or did superman fight incredibly dumb against DD?

Well, he was supposedly fighting in superspeed the entire time...

[LibrarianThorne]

is it just me, or did superman fight incredibly dumb against DD?

I don't think so. He wasn't really fighting Doomsday once they hit Metropolis, anyway. All of Superman's actions once they were in Metropolis weren't about putting Doomsday down, it was about trying to minimize the damage the fight was causing. Heck, even early on in the fight, when he could have ended it beofre Metropolis, he had to choose between letting a family die or taking down a monster, and he made the only choice Superman coud. And don't forget that even in metropolis, there were news helicopters everywhere. He couldn't very well huck Doomsday out of there without hitting innocent bystanders.

Even with that in mind, he still beat the hell out of Doomsday. Hucking him into trees with the strength of steel and having a forest of what is, essentially, metal collapse on Doomsday wasn't a bad move. He even teamed up with the Justice League and they unleashed a massive wave of power and Doomsday, and DD just kept on coming. I think perhaps the deciding factor in that fight was simply DD's resilience and stamina. He just didin't go down. After the League went down, the entire fight was done in superspeed, wearing Superman down (since he doesn't usually fight in superspeed at that point, much less for what appeared to be hours).

[Guts/Batman]

u would think if ur friend is fighting for his life alone on national tv against a supreme monster thing u would try ur best to help him.im surprised superman wasnt pissed off at all the heroes who could have helped but didnt.did they even attend his funeral?

Yep. Almost all of them were in Metropolis for his funeral. Batman was patrolling the city, even stopped a bomber telling him "Out of respect for Superman, I'll leave you here." or something to this effect.

You read A world without a Superman recently?

[trickster]

Sure there´s relationships in the DCU, everybody is somebody´s cousin, sidekick, etc, but when push comes to shove we have Ted Kord abandoned by his peers to go eat a bullet.

Please correct me if I´m wrong.

You are. Blue Beetle went off on his own, without telling anybody he was going to investigate. And with no weapons at all. Well he did mention OMAC to Batman, but didn't say he was going to Switzerland to investigate. And Bruce had told Beetle to stay put.