Superman's Weaknesses?

[El Chupacabra]

I currently have a little argument going on at another forum. Some kids believe that Superman can't be killed, except by Kryptonite, and I have clearly stated he can be killed ... by other things as well.

I just want to know from you all What Superman's known weaknesses are? What could kill him? I am not saying who could kill him ... but what?

I was told:

-Kryptonite
-Extreme amounts of force/impact (Just none other than Darkseid and others in DC possess such power).
-Magic. (The person on this board argues that magic only slows him down but can't kill him).
-Obliterating his mind.

Are these correct/incorrect? Why/Why Not? And what else is there. I want to end this debate on this other forum with some facts. I just don't know much Superman history.

[Rockman]

I currently have a little argument going on at another forum. Some kids believe that Superman can't be killed, except by Kryptonite, and I have clearly stated he can be killed ... by other things as well.

I just want to know from you all What Superman's known weaknesses are? What could kill him? I am not saying who could kill him ... but what?

I was told:

-Kryptonite
-Extreme amounts of force/impact (Just none other than Darkseid and others in DC possess such power).
-Magic. (The person on this board argues that magic only slows him down but can't kill him).
-Obliterating his mind
Are these correct/incorrect? Why/Why Not? And what else is there. I want to end this debate on this other forum with some facts. I just don't know much Superman history.


Hey he already had most of the thing mention above done to him and superman still alive. ;)

Magic could work both way,but it would depend on what magic was use on him. Some magic don't affect superman as others. Obliterating his mind? You mean mind whammies that make him a dooling zombie,or exploding his brain from the inside. Extreme amounts of force/impact would work on mostly anybody,but superman able to heal fast sure helps him alot in battles.

[Deskad]

-Kryptonite
-Extreme amounts of force/impact (Just none other than Darkseid and others in DC possess such power).
-Magic.


These are the weaknesses, he was also shown to be weak to mind manipulation, as you have also mentioned, but the last one is iffy as a killing technique.

[Rockman]

These are the weaknesses, he was also shown to be weak to mind manipulation, as you have also mentioned, but the last one is iffy as a killing technique.

I thought it was because some writers like to use him for mind manipulation for stories. He also shown some resistance to mind manipulation in his comics.

[Deskad]

He also shown some resistance to mind manipulation in his comics.


It's not his powers though, his resistance was never shown beyond the fact that he is just a really strong minded individual, powers notwithstanding.

[El Chupacabra]

I thought it was because some writers like to use him for mind manipulation for stories. He also shown some resistance to mind manipulation in his comics.

Poison Ivy pretty easily controlled him in the Hush arc, which I always thought sort of dumb since Poison Ivy is a joke compared to Superman.

Maxwell Lord just got done owning Superman during the Sacrifice arc using mind manipulation/control.

As far as destroying Superman mentally, wouldn't high powered psionics (such as via Thanos) do some serious damage to him? I would think Superman has decent mind blocking powers but up against a heavy hitter like Thanos, his mind would pretty much be turned into sludge after a well placed psychic barrage.

[Guts/Batman]

Just look what Max did to him. Thanos is wayy better than Max.

[El Chupacabra]

Just look what Max did to him. Thanos is wayy better than Max.

On top of that, Max seemed to only be able to control or manipulate with his powers. Thanos and other beings out there can use telepathy or psionics to destroy things. To a great degree as well.

[Donald Stone]

Just look what Max did to him. Thanos is wayy better than Max.
But recall how much prep it took for Max to be able to do what he did.

Superman is pretty strong willed, and working with J'onn for as long as he has I'm sure he's worked on his mental defense some, but it's not extraordinary.

[Alan2099]

Lower level telepthats might have trouble with him, but people like Xavier or even the Martian manhunter should be able to fry his brain without him really being able to do much about it.

As far as magic goes, it's been shown to put a major hurt on him in the past. I see no reason why it shouldn't be able to kill him.

Superman also needs to breath. He can usually hold his breath for a VERY long time but he can't hold it forever.

[Pariah128]

Yeah about the max thing, it was said it took years and years of planning..so if thats "owning" then..well cool, but all I remember him really doing was making supes think he was seeing something that wasnt there, not flat out bending him to his will, big big difference isnt there?

[Guts/Batman]

But recall how much prep it took for Max to be able to do what he did.

Superman is pretty strong willed, and working with J'onn for as long as he has I'm sure he's worked on his mental defense some, but it's not extraordinary.

That is true.

[Pariah128]

Has anyone ever (successfully) violently attacked his mind? I dont mean in an attempt to control him etc. just in an attempt to shut off his brain

[Guts/Batman]

Yeah about the max thing, it was said it took years and years of planning..so if thats "owning" then..well cool, but all I remember him really doing was making supes think he was seeing something that wasnt there, not flat out bending him to his will, big big difference isnt there?

Wouldn't controlling what he sees (and knowing what he does in that situation) be equal to right out controlling him?

[Pariah128]

I dont know, it seems like he wasnt strong enough to fully control him, he had to make superman think he was seeing various villains , doomsday etc. to get him angry and do his dirty work, as opposed to just telling him to "attack Wonder woman"

Im not knocking his power, but it seemed like he wasnt able to flat out control supes totally, just control what he saw

[El Chupacabra]

Yeah about the max thing, it was said it took years and years of planning..so if thats "owning" then..well cool, but all I remember him really doing was making supes think he was seeing something that wasnt there, not flat out bending him to his will, big big difference isnt there?

I agree. It did take a lot of prep time but even in doing so, prep does not increase Max's own mental control abilities any. It just increases his planning. But Max did have enough power to control (or manipulate) him, so it's further proof that Superman isn't extremely resistant to mind control. I mean ... Max wasn't even known as a meta until just recently (as far as I know) and I don't think I would classify him as having a super powered mind.

[Pariah128]

but it wasnt made clear, he could of been slowly trying to breach his mind for years, finally gaining success

[Rockman]

but it wasnt made clear, he could of been slowly trying to breach his mind for years, finally gaining success

He did get surgery to improve his power and max work on superman fears, doubt and failures to finally gaining success to control superman perfectly as he wants now. Which martian manhunter couldn't undo without really screwing up up his brain.

As for the breathing thing he was space for a week before needing his breathing mask.
http://img183.echo.cx/img183/9685/untitled59ge.th.jpg (http://img183.echo.cx/my.php?image=untitled59ge.jpg)

[Charagon]

If you hit Superman with an enchanted sword that can cut through anything it will live up to its name and slice him up but good.

If you hit Superman with enough force he'll go down. The trick is generating such massive amounts of force. The average DBZer could do it but very few other individuals in the omniverse can produce such power.

As far as mental powers go, Superman has no more resistance than any other strong willed individual. No alien immunity. No super anti-mind control power. His head is probably easier to get into than helmetless Magneto's (of course, even without the helmet Magneto is one tough cookie to crack so that's still pretty impressive.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I´ve been thinking about Supes´alledged vulnerability to magic for a while now, mainly due to Kingdom Come and the conclusion I came up with is that they haven´t established it as well as they did his weakness to Kryptonite, leaving it as a plot device to be explored by lazy writers.

Now I´ll grant it that he was at the height of his invulnerability (to a point where K didn´t even affect him anymore), but apparently his vulnerability to magic remained unchanged (as depicted in the notorious scenne where he cuts his finger while checking Diana´s sword).

In that series he was hit repeatedly by Captain Marvel´s lightnings which, IIRC, are magc in nature.

He got pounded severelly and a nosebleed but still it didn´t seem to affect him more than any other physical attack of the same magnitude.

[kevdude]

Superman is weak against Magic, Kyrptonite, he can die from being in a very long bloody battle like what happened with Doomsday. Imperiex Prime would have killed him with a blast that could destroy anything but Darksied got him away (he still got burned from just being near it, this blast also killed Doomsday).

[Rockman]

I´ve been thinking about Supes´alledged vulnerability to magic for a while now, mainly due to Kingdom Come and the conclusion I came up with is that they haven´t established it as well as they did his weakness to Kryptonite, leaving it as a plot device to be explored by lazy writers.

Now I´ll grant it that he was at the height of his invulnerability (to a point where K didn´t even affect him anymore), but apparently his vulnerability to magic remained unchanged (as depicted in the notorious scenne where he cuts his finger while checking Diana´s sword).

In that series he was hit repeatedly by Captain Marvel´s lightnings which, IIRC, are magc in nature.

He got pounded severelly and a nosebleed but still it didn´t seem to affect him more than any other physical attack of the same magnitude.

True and when superman was being possessed by Eclipso in lightning strikes ,he was hit with about 10 Shazam bolts in the space of 10 minutes? Which was going to eventually going to kill him,then superman took somemore Shazam bolts punishment from the wizard Shazam himself almost killing him with many Shazam bolts.(believe me he took many Shazam bolts) Untill the Spectre forces Eclipso from Superman's body, sending it back to the Black Diamond saving superman from the wizard. And even through superman was badly damage he was walk around on is own hurting but fine.

[El Chupacabra]

I would say that Magic could kill Superman just like Kryptonite could, you just have to find a magical source or being capable of wielding enough of it, to actually finish him off.

One of these days we may see an event where magic kills Superman (or close to it) but I just don't think it has been written yet.

I mean how many times to people apply Kryptonite to him and he still never dies? Same as Magic. It's just usually for short amounts of time or not enough of it. Why? Because they don't plan on killing Superman at that moment, so he always overcomes it.

But if another "Death of Superman" came about, magic would be my guess on what takes him down.

All opinion of course.

[Rockman]

I would say that Magic could kill Superman just like Kryptonite could, you just have to find a magical source or being capable of wielding enough of it, to actually finish him off.

One of these days we may see an event where magic kills Superman (or close to it) but I just don't think it has been written yet.

I mean how many times to people apply Kryptonite to him and he still never dies? Same as Magic. It's just usually for short amounts of time or not enough of it. Why? Because they don't plan on killing Superman at that moment, so he always overcomes it.

But if another "Death of Superman" came about, magic would be my guess on what takes him down.

All opinion of course.

Kryptonite isn't what it used to be in comics,with being injected with Kryptonite,blood being turn into Kryptonite,fighting villains with Kryptonite around their neck and still being able to beat them,being blown up in Kryptonite and surviving.

[kane]

I don´t like the magic weakness. What is the reason? Why should a kryptonian be vulnerable to magic? Its silly.

And what is magic? WW weapons and Cap Marvels powers are given by gods, so it is magic. But what about the new gods and apokolips. Why is their power not magic?

[Guywhoiscool]

I heard the explanation that magic is very chaotic energy, so that's why it hurts him.

[Superrossman]

I just want to know from you all What Superman's known weaknesses are? What could kill him? I am not saying who could kill him ... but what?



Brian Azzarello..

[davids]

One else. He can be cursed, cut with a magic sword or ripped apart by a demons claws. Remember the action comic when he and WW were stuck in Vahalla?

The end of the book he was wounded in bed and Diana was tending to him. One of the demon's ripped his chest with it's claws.

The diffrence is that with his speed he would have a far better chance to avoid those claws then we could. Better still be able to take out the demon before the demon gotto him.

Force, the silver age superman could survive a super nova, I doubt this one could. An exploding planet maybe, an exploding star no!.

Flying in space with out a mask, has been explained has due to the power boost he gets from unfilted sunlight.

[El Chupacabra]

Brian Azzarello..

Hahaha. You got that right.

[Super Macho Man]

I would say that Magic could kill Superman just like Kryptonite could, you just have to find a magical source or being capable of wielding enough of it, to actually finish him off.

One of these days we may see an event where magic kills Superman (or close to it) but I just don't think it has been written yet.

I mean how many times to people apply Kryptonite to him and he still never dies? Same as Magic. It's just usually for short amounts of time or not enough of it. Why? Because they don't plan on killing Superman at that moment, so he always overcomes it.

But if another "Death of Superman" came about, magic would be my guess on what takes him down.

All opinion of course.
His magic weakness is defined as hurting him as it would anyone. It isn't that he is MORE vulnerable to magic than anyone else. He is AS vulnerable to magic as everyone else.

[David Walton]

I don't see the flexibility of his vulnerability to magic as being the product of lazy writing. Far from it, some flexibility is necessary to provide consistently entertaining stories. The problem with K has always been either it hurts him or it doesn't--and that plot thread wears thin after a while.

I don't know if Byrne consciously intended this, but it seems to me Supes' newfound vulnerability to magic was the natural extension of how Byrne was essentially reducing Supes dual god/man nature to that of simply man, albeit a really powerful one. Gerard Jones actually remarks critically on how the fantasy elements of Superman were stripped away in his book 'The Comic Book Heroes' (excellent read).

The question was whether in an age of 'reason' Superman could retain his dual nature, and also how DC could reconcile Supes' godlike powers with their inevitable implications and limitations--how do you write about a god having any sort of difficulty in battle?

Now there seems to be a schism in the way writers approach Superman, based on whether or not they feel Byrne went too far and culminating in Jurgens' half-hearted philosophy of incorporating elements of the old fantasy world while stripping them of the very fantasy that made them work--for instance, a Krypto without powers, simply for the sake of having a Krypto.

For my money, no writer compares to Grant Morrison in writing Superman. His Clark is both god and man, both leader and servant, and approaching his inevitable destiny as Superman Prime. Grant's run on JLA provides us with a shining example of a Superman who possesses faults and insecurites without lapsing into vascillation and weakness. Few writers have treaded the balance so well for me.

[Rik Levins]

I don't see the flexibility of his vulnerability to magic as being the product of lazy writing. Far from it, some flexibility is necessary to provide consistently entertaining stories.
Good point.


I don't know if Byrne consciously intended this, but it seems to me Supes' newfound vulnerability to magic...

Well, actually, Superman was always vulnerable to magic. As far back as the fifties, the editors at DC specifically mentioned this fact in a lettercolumn. There were many instances in the Silver Age of Superman being affected by magic. In one story some thugs used a mystic totem to turn him mortal. Circe turned him into a beast, Mr. Mxyzptlk took away his powers on several occasions and generally messed with him (once, when Supes got in his face, Mxy grabbed his nose, stretched it out a couple of feet and then let it snap back with enough force to knock him on his butt.)
In fact, even as far back as the early 1940's, there was a story in which Luthor got hold of a magical artifact called the Powerstone, and also used it to take away Superman's powers.
So it isn't like Byrne changed anything in that respect. I do agree with you, though, that a certain amount of artistic license in the writing makes for more interesting potential storylines.

[SITHLORD]

I dont know, it seems like he wasnt strong enough to fully control him, he had to make superman think he was seeing various villains , doomsday etc. to get him angry and do his dirty work, as opposed to just telling him to "attack Wonder woman"

Im not knocking his power, but it seemed like he wasnt able to flat out control supes totally, just control what he saw

I think that was part of the sick and twisted beauty of it. Instead of just having him attack people, he twisted him to where he thought he was defending those he cared about, only to realize that he was hurting those he cared about. VERY WICKED. And impressive to boot.

[Captain Smith]

I'm of the opinion that the current Superman is vulnerable to anything in the physical environment if applied with sufficient force. Unlike PC Supes who was definitionally invulnerable except for the classic weaknesses at his best, the current guy you can take down if you have enough force.

[Erebus]

Krytonite definitly can kill him. If you've read kingdom come, you know that Wonder Woman's magic sword can cut him, and Captain Marvel's magic lightning bolts nearly killed him. Plus, when Superman was fighting the hulk, He was almost beaten. The hulk probably could have beaten Supes if all Superman had were superstreagth.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Notice that Superman received several lightning strikes form CM.
Lighnings that are magical in nature.
If he were THAT vulnerable to magic, the lightning would have probably vaporised him.

[VGex]

Supermans only weaknesses are kyrptonite and a red sun

[Dafyr]

I think Supes weakness to magic, has always been a play on the society he came from. Remember Krypton was always depicted a this place at the peak of technology. So from a Golden/Silver age writer's viewpoint, the oposing end of that was magic. Even when called the man of tomorrow, it was a play on the future in which technology makes everyone Superman. (All my opinion by the way)

[Captain Smith]

Superman is now vulnerable to sufficient levels of force. That level of force is unclear to me. He can fly through a sun but get kicked out by some Hillbilly villian.

Superman is vulnerable to magic directly. Magic enhancements to increase physical force levels fall into generating enough force to hurt him.

He is specifically more vulnerable to Kryptonite than other critters.

[Joe Acro]

Superman is only weak to the red sun and kryptonite.

He is vulnerable to psychic attacks (depending whether or not he uses the mind trick Mongul taught him), magic, and massive brute strength (such as Doomsday's). He is not weak to them simply because he is no greater affected by them than any other hero with such vulnerabilities.

[Avenger08]

I dont know if anyone has said this yet but anything can kill superman. You could just stab him with a knife and he would sometimes die. Why? Because, if hes depowered, he has all the weaknesses of everyone else. You could throw superman through Roa and then shank him in the throat and hed die.

and the ones you have listed, while hes powered, are the right ones.

Which forum are you arguing about this on?

[Avenger08]

Supermans only weaknesses are kyrptonite and a red sun

Notice that Superman received several lightning strikes form CM.
Lighnings that are magical in nature.
If he were THAT vulnerable to magic, the lightning would have probably vaporised him.

Wow, does anyone know their superman? (i know most of you do but just making a rash generalization based on two comments that i dont believe myself),

Superman is not only vulnerable to a Red Sun or Kryptonite. If superman flew into a starless world he would die in space. He isnt specifically voulnerable to a red sun, it just depowers him. So does the absence of all starlight. And he is also voulnerable to magic, enormous force (hes shown to get a bloody nose by being elbowed in the face) and psychic attacks.

Second, do you not remember that those magic lightningbolts made superman bleed? Or that it was a superman of another earth that was much stronger and much less voulnerable to harm than the superman of normal continuity (i believe you are referring to kingdom come superman right? if not, i am)

[pariah-1972]

His biggest Weakness is his love for humans and humanity in general, it's his one thing he can't overcome.

[Alex L]

Wow, does anyone know their superman? (i know most of you do but just making a rash generalization based on two comments that i dont believe myself),

Superman is not only vulnerable to a Red Sun or Kryptonite. If superman flew into a starless world he would die in space. He isnt specifically voulnerable to a red sun, it just depowers him. So does the absence of all starlight. And he is also voulnerable to magic, enormous force (hes shown to get a bloody nose by being elbowed in the face) and psychic attacks.

Second, do you not remember that those magic lightningbolts made superman bleed? Or that it was a superman of another earth that was much stronger and much less voulnerable to harm than the superman of normal continuity (i believe you are referring to kingdom come superman right? if not, i am)

It's all variable.

Sometimes the presence of a red sun will actively flush out the yellow energy from his cells, at other times it won't (he can still use superpowers, but can't recharge).

And his point with the lightning bolts, was that Billy's lightning didn't seem to affect him any more than the non-magical variety would. If he were vulnerable to magic in that way, then being hit 20 times would (in theory) toast him as badly as if a regular human were hit 20 times by regular lightning bolts.

[Avenger08]

And his point with the lightning bolts, was that Billy's lightning didn't seem to affect him any more than the non-magical variety would. If he were vulnerable to magic in that way, then being hit 20 times would (in theory) toast him as badly as if a regular human were hit 20 times by regular lightning bolts.

It did affect him much more than normal lightning would. Superman of normal earth has flow through a sun and not bled. Lightning wouldnt hurt him the way billy's lighting bolts did. They actually made him bleed from the ears. And again, that was a Superman that was like 10 times stronger and less voulnerable than Superman of new earth.

[Rugal 3:16]

Magic is a Vulnerability not necessarily a weakness..

Basically Calling Superman "Weak" agaiunst Magic is also saying

Captai America
Iron Man
Batman
Spider-man
Daredevil

and insert any other superhero who doesn't have Magic resistance being weak as magic

so yes

Green Lanterns weakness for example

Yellow (Then)
Magic (Because he doesn't have any special invulnerability against Magic)

Flash Weakness

Magic

Captain America Weakness

Magic

Iron Man Weakness

Armor with Glitch (if ever that happens)
Magic

Daredevil weakness

Magic

No one has been able to prove that Superman is MORE WEAK against Magic than the heroes without any special defense against it

so while it's true that Magic can be concentrated enough to kill supes.. The same thing can be said from someone far stronger than him punching him really really hard so that his invulnerability can take it hence

Magic = VULNERABILITY and not weakness (A la exclusive methods of bringing him down)
Thor fans especially love overplaying this magic weakness part.

[Slaughter]

Ins't Supes kinda vulnerable to ultrasonics, too? I remember Squad K using ultrasonic weapons on him, although those worked more as a annoyance and concentration-breaker.

There's another forgotten vulnerability there: Nuclear weapons. I remember Supes once blacked out with a 20 megaton nuclear explosion. Right in his face. Before someone says "That's too weak!", the center of a nuclear explosion is hotter than than the surface of most stars. 10^6 K (Kelvin), if I recall it right. Try to fit in your mind. No wait, you can't. Its sheer mind-boggling. And that's just the heat, there's also the shockwave. And it only weakened his powers (his invulnerability had to spend a lot of solar power to protect him), destroyed part of his uniform and somewhat wounded him. There's also Kingdown Come, when the UN decided to solve the metahuman problem with the "MIRVs Fall, Everyone Dies" method. That was a much more powerful Supes, though.

[Whirlwind Dinamo]

Magic is a Vulnerability not necessarily a weakness..

Basically Calling Superman "Weak" agaiunst Magic is also saying

Captai America
Iron Man


I think that's false reasoning, Ironman forefields/armor and Caps shield can certainly repel an attack from WonderWoman, the difference with Superman would be her blade will cut the Kryptonian open




I was told:

-Kryptonite
-Extreme amounts of force/impact (Just none other than Darkseid and others in DC possess such power).
-Magic. (The person on this board argues that magic only slows him down but can't kill him).
-Obliterating his mind.

I would add to the list

1Red Sun radiation

and

2making him believe he's on Krypton which probably falls into the 'his mind' category

Magic if kinda ify, there's that notorious series of panels in Kingdom Come where he slices his hand open on WW's blade. He's also been spell binded and transformed into animals by magic casters. Yet then again there's many a time he's displayed some magical resistance, he's KO'ed Shazam and Thor without much of a problem. If there is a time where Superman dies after getting hit by magic it certainly hasn't been wrote yet.


His biggest Weakness is his love for humans and humanity in general, it's his one thing he can't overcome.

If he loved humanity so much, he wouldn't go around spying on everyone with X-ray vision like some kind of patriot act and he would do humanity a favor and break Luthor's legs instead of allowing him to rise to become King of Earth.

[Paladin573]

Batman!!!!

[Slaughter]

The whole X-Ray thing reminds me of Red Son, where he was the most scary version of Big Brother ever drawn on paper. He can hear everything, see everything, go anywhere, kill anyone and outspeed (almost) anything. He can even violate your mind and turn you into a Superman robot.

[Primemao]

Ins't Shapes kinda vulnerable to ultrasonics, too? I remember Squad K using ultrasonic weapons on him, although those worked more as a annoyance and concentration-breaker.

There's another forgotten vulnerability there: Nuclear weapons. I remember Supes once blacked out with a 20 megaton nuclear explosion. Right in his face. Before someone says "That's too weak!", the center of a nuclear explosion is hotter than than the surface of most stars. 10^6 K (Kelvin), if I recall it right. Try to fit in your mind. No wait, you can't. Its sheer mind-boggling. And that's just the heat, there's also the shockwave. And it only weakened his powers (his invulnerability had to spend a lot of solar power to protect him), destroyed part of his uniform and somewhat wounded him. There's also Kingdom Come, when the UN decided to solve the metahuman problem with the "MIRVs Fall, Everyone Dies" method. That was a much more powerful Super, though.

What I seen in the superman respect threads nuclear weapons isn't much of a threat to him anymore. Seen him take explosions larger then 20 megaton and not be knockout.

[Rugal 3:16]

I think that's false reasoning, Ironman forefields/armor and Caps shield can certainly repel an attack from WonderWoman, the difference with Superman would be her blade will cut the Kryptonian open

That still doesn't explain how some people seem to think Supes is weaker against magic as anyone who doesn;t have special defenses against it

Does anyopne find this scenario retarded...

A Magician Gives the entire JLA a "Power Enhancement spell"

thus..

Flash becomes faster
WW's powers amplified
GL's power rivals power cosmic
but since Supes is "weak" against magic so instead of amplifying his abilities this "Power enhancement spell" makes him weaker SIMPLE BECAUSE it's "Magic"

It's also like if you bombard supes with "magical sunlight" instead of boosting his abilties he gets sunburn and of course gets weaker.

again can anyone prove to me why supes is weaker against magic than anyone else??

[pariah-1972]

I





If he loved humanity so much, he wouldn't go around spying on everyone with X-ray vision like some kind of patriot act and he would do humanity a favor and break Luthor's legs instead of allowing him to rise to become King of Earth.I don't think he spies on "everyone" sometimes criminals or people he's protecting, and Luthor is human so killing him would be against his moral code.

[dancj]

I think that's false reasoning, Ironman forefields/armor and Caps shield can certainly repel an attack from WonderWoman, the difference with Superman would be her blade will cut the Kryptonian open
That really depends on Wonder-Woman's blade.

If her blade is charmed with a spell that makes it cut anything then it will cut both Superman and Cap's shield. If her blade is charmed with a spell that just makes it really really sharp then Superman will be as resistant to it as he would to anything else that was that sharp - as would Cap's shield.

Either way, Cap's shield would fare no better than Superman's skin.

[Rik Levins]

That still doesn't explain how some people seem to think Supes is weaker against magic as anyone who doesn;t have special defenses against it

Back in the Pre-Crisis days, it was explained that there used to be a branch of humanity (called Homo Magus, or something like that), who had magical powers. However, thousands of years of interbreeding with "normal" humans had diluted their bloodline until they were all but extinct as a separate species. The only surviving pureblooded member of that race was Zatanna.
This meant that every human being on Earth had at least a small trace of Homo Magus genetics, which gave them at least a slight natural resistance to magic. Superman, being an alien, had none, and therefore was more susceptible to magic than a normal human.

Lame, I know, and it failed to address all the OTHER aliens on Earth, who should also have had a specific magic weakness. But fortunately this nonsense has long since been retconned and forgotten. Nowadays, as has already been stated, Superman is no more vulnerable to magic than anyone else.

[sonnyp746]

we all know we need brains to move, If someone can manipulate his mind then we got a dead superman, but to prevent this he should wear anti mind control helmet.:smile:

[Rugal 3:16]

Back in the Pre-Crisis days, it was explained that there used to be a branch of humanity (called Homo Magus, or something like that), who had magical powers. However, thousands of years of interbreeding with "normal" humans had diluted their bloodline until they were all but extinct as a separate species. The only surviving pureblooded member of that race was Zatanna.
This meant that every human being on Earth had at least a small trace of Homo Magus genetics, which gave them at least a slight natural resistance to magic. Superman, being an alien, had none, and therefore was more susceptible to magic than a normal human.

Lame, I know, and it failed to address all the OTHER aliens on Earth, who should also have had a specific magic weakness. But fortunately this nonsense has long since been retconned and forgotten. Nowadays, as has already been stated, Superman is no more vulnerable to magic than anyone else.


This is just like that story that they made up in the 70's explaining how no one was ablt to recognize clark kent from superman (that he's hypnotizing the world)

thing is everyone who hates supes likes to think all magic (even good ones, ability boosting ones) seem to be harmful to supes.

[marshal99]

Pre-crisis superman tried to rid his weakness to magic before. He went to Zatanna for help but she's not powerful enough so he went to earth 2 to look for Dr. Fate and ended up helping Fate fight off a deadly foe and in the end , just as Dr. Fate was going to summon a spell to help superman , superman changed his mind - he doesn't want to end up too powerful with no weakness , his magic weakness will keep him humble and grounded or something like that.

On pre-crisis Earth 2 , the wizard used magic and caused the E2 superman to dissapear for an entire year , it was submerged within his clark kent persona so clark went 1 year as clark without knowing that he is actually superman.

I imagine if the magic is powerful enough , it can kill superman.

[Rugal 3:16]

Magic..

The Argument is

Should it be a weakness

or should it just be a vulnerability

My Anser is Vulnerability.

marshal99: ANY superhero without a special defense against magic (which is almost everybody from marvel and dc) could have themselves asked for Dr. Fate's help

LOL even with a Healing Factor, Magic resistance is not one of Wolverine's mutant powers..

Therefore

Wolverine is "weak" against Magic if we insist superman is weak against magic.

[Queue Hameera]

I think every man is a superman...:p
Ya man, I don't think superman is having any weakness :p

[Superbeast]

Has anyone ever (successfully) violently attacked his mind? I dont mean in an attempt to control him etc. just in an attempt to shut off his brain

Manchester Black gave him a stroke. That's the closest I can think of.

[Slaughter]

Manchester Black gave him a stroke. That's the closest I can think of.

That's telekinesis, but used inside his body. A very good use of telekinesis.

He must be more resistant on the insides, because anyone else would be out-right killed by such a attack.

[Mat001]

Clark's entire body is invulnerable, both inside and out. I think this is explored in "Critical Condition".

[Jorriss]

Clark's entire body is invulnerable, both inside and out. I think this is explored in "Critical Condition".
What's meant by invulnerable? As in literally no level of force can harm it at all?

[dancj]

No - it's just incredibly tough - but there is always a limit.

[AllisterH]

On pre-crisis Earth 2 , the wizard used magic and caused the E2 superman to dissapear for an entire year , it was submerged within his clark kent persona so clark went 1 year as clark without knowing that he is actually superman.

I imagine if the magic is powerful enough , it can kill superman.

Isn't this the storyline where Lois Lane actually falls in love with Clark Kent since Clark, not knowing he's Superman, drops the meek and overly cowardly act and his true personality starts to shine....

I think that Superman would say the magic weakness was a good thing..

[Queue Hameera]

Superman is vulnerable to Kryptonite, Sonic attacks, Psychic attacks, Magic attacks and Virus X. Although he is no more detrimentally affected by such effects than a normal human would be, this is a significantly exploitable weakness in comparison to his incredible physical resilience.

[Rugal 3:16]

That's my point on MAGIC


EVERYONE (UNLESS STATED NOT TO) HAS A MAGIC-'WEAKNESS'

Cap
Flash
Iron Man
GL

Unless we see in their profile they are specifically weak against it.

Supes Magic 'Vulnerability' is just over-exploited because of the fact that he's superman. but that doesn't mean he's weaker against it than everyone selse.

[dupersuper]

Wouldn't controlling what he sees (and knowing what he does in that situation) be equal to right out controlling him?

No, controlling him, he could've just made him kill Batman, instead he had to trick him into thinking he was fighting Brainiac or Darkseid before Supes let loose.

[dupersuper]

Poison Ivy pretty easily controlled him in the Hush arc, which I always thought sort of dumb since Poison Ivy is a joke compared to Superman.


Wasn't there kryptonite involved though; and Batman still said he was holding back, and he still shrugged it off to save Lois...and Ivy did manage to completely control Bruce himself in Long Halloween.

[dupersuper]

If you hit Superman with an enchanted sword that can cut through anything it will live up to its name and slice him up but good.

If you hit Superman with enough force he'll go down. The trick is generating such massive amounts of force. The average DBZer could do it but very few other individuals in the omniverse can produce such power.

As far as mental powers go, Superman has no more resistance than any other strong willed individual. No alien immunity. No super anti-mind control power. His head is probably easier to get into than helmetless Magneto's (of course, even without the helmet Magneto is one tough cookie to crack so that's still pretty impressive.

Actually, Superman has shown some resistance to magic weapons (Sterns Superman, issue 23 or so); it cut him, but was should have killed him by all rights. That plus his healing factor make him hard to kill this way. I see Clark as being vulnerable to magic, but having some resistance both because of his powers, and because he has become a powerful symbol in his own right, and symbols matter when dealing in magic. I do agree that his resistance to mind control is all or mostly due to his strong will, nothing to do with his powers (except maybe just the fact his brain is naturally more advanced than ours regardless of what sun he's under, owing to his being a member of a more advanced race).

[dupersuper]

He got pounded severelly and a nosebleed but still it didn´t seem to affect him more than any other physical attack of the same magnitude.

Considering how he shrugs off normal lightning, it affected him MUCH more than a normal physical attack of the same magnitude would, but it still couldn't kil him.

[dupersuper]

Ins't Supes kinda vulnerable to ultrasonics, too? I remember Squad K using ultrasonic weapons on him, although those worked more as a annoyance and concentration-breaker.

There's another forgotten vulnerability there: Nuclear weapons. I remember Supes once blacked out with a 20 megaton nuclear explosion. Right in his face. Before someone says "That's too weak!", the center of a nuclear explosion is hotter than than the surface of most stars. 10^6 K (Kelvin), if I recall it right. Try to fit in your mind. No wait, you can't. Its sheer mind-boggling. And that's just the heat, there's also the shockwave. And it only weakened his powers (his invulnerability had to spend a lot of solar power to protect him), destroyed part of his uniform and somewhat wounded him. There's also Kingdown Come, when the UN decided to solve the metahuman problem with the "MIRVs Fall, Everyone Dies" method. That was a much more powerful Supes, though.

I think big nukes would fall under the already mentioned heading of massive force. Since he has survived numerous nukes of varied power, it clearly doesn't kill him, though it can knock him for a loop if it blows up in his face.

[Mat001]

Wasn't there kryptonite involved though; and Batman still said he was holding back, and he still shrugged it off to save Lois...and Ivy did manage to completely control Bruce himself in Long Halloween.

Yes, Kryptonite was used by Ivy to make it easier for her toxins to work on Clark.

[Skeleton]

These are the weaknesses, he was also shown to be weak to mind manipulation, as you have also mentioned, but the last one is iffy as a killing technique.

Who minds what superman's weaknesses are? none of those have ever brought him to death. The only thing who could kill Superman is the willing of his author.