Giffen League Kill Count Spoilers.

[tricksterpup]

Ok folks so far they have killed Sue Dibny, Blue Beetle and Maxwell Lord, whose next?
So the count is up to 3.

[Shellhead]

If I were Booster Gold, I would be looking into time machine technology... it might be a good time to go back to his home century.

[ComicRelated]

Fire = toast next? Hey, she does miss Ice quite a bit. It might make for a nice reunion. lol

[Bat-Mite]

Guy Gardner perhaps.

There are too many Earth based Green Lanterns today.

Hal won't die cause he just came back. John is in the cartoon. They won't kill Kyle cause they will end up with another dumb HEAT club.

Guy Gardner is going to die... yup.

[yeoman]

Guy Gardner perhaps.

There are too many Earth based Green Lanterns today.

Hal won't die cause he just came back. John is in the cartoon. They won't kill Kyle cause they will end up with another dumb HEAT club.

Guy Gardner is going to die... yup.

Nah, Guy is supposed to have a decent sized role in the Corps. I'd bet on Fire or Rocket Red. Booster is a maybe.


Oh, and I'd include Ralph as at least walking wounded in the casuality count.

Edit: Oh, and while Ice could be included, she died years ago.

[Bat-Mite]

Oh crap.... I can even see it...

Ralph: GOD Dammit! He raped my wife.

Dr.Light: Bwa ha ha!

Superman: No, Ralph! Killing is wrong.

Batman: HOLY CRAP! WATCH OUT, RALPH!

Ralph: AAAAAAHHHHH! x_x

Batman: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

MARK. MY. WORDS.

[TommyV]

Things don't look so good for him on the last page of OMAC #4!

[yeoman]

Things don't look so good for him on the last page of OMAC #4!

They'll probably just put him in a coma so that Despero can finish him off years from now.

Wait, no, that's actually referencing the humor league and was a good story to boot...

[Anthony]

Hasn't Guy already died? Or do you mean for the next iteration of deaths?

If so, my money's on Fire.

[LibrarianThorne]

I'm betting the entire Giffen League is going down.

You know, there were rumors that this Infinite Crisis will actually make DC a happier place. I would love to see the Giffen League all come back at the end, and save the day.

I really like the miniseries, and hte COuntdown in general, but is it any coincedence that the most outlandish and light-hearted of them (VU) is the one most liked?

[Shellhead]

If so, my money's on Fire.

I hate it when my money's on fire. Cuts into my comic spending too much.

[titanfan]

Guy's already been dead and came back so I don't know if they'd kill him off again so soon.

According to Johns, Fire is at least appearing in Infinite Crisis, so she's safe in OMAC for now. Rocket Red VII isn't looking so good, but if they were going to kill him off, they definitely would have done it in the last panel, rather than merely put him in danger.

I want to see where the Giffen League reunion is heading in OMAC. Wonder Woman already killed Maxwell Lord. Beetle/Guy/Fire are a still a step behind the JLA in a sense. What is there left for them to do? Charge into OMAC HQ and get themselves killed off?

[Shellhead]

I want to see where the Giffen League reunion is heading in OMAC.

I'm guessing adjacent funeral plots.

[Sk8maven]

I really like the miniseries, and hte COuntdown in general, but is it any coincedence that the most outlandish and light-hearted of them (VU) is the one most liked?Do you mean VU (Villains United) or DoV (Day of Vengeance)? I haven't heard that VU is all that "outlandish" or "light-hearted" - whereas DoV has Detective Chimp and a ragtag collection of oddballs trying to take down Eclipso and/or the Spectre, and wisecracking all the way.

Maven

[Lightbend]

Guy's already been dead and came back so I don't know if they'd kill him off again so soon.

According to Johns, Fire is at least appearing in Infinite Crisis, so she's safe in OMAC for now. Rocket Red VII isn't looking so good, but if they were going to kill him off, they definitely would have done it in the last panel, rather than merely put him in danger.

I want to see where the Giffen League reunion is heading in OMAC. Wonder Woman already killed Maxwell Lord. Beetle/Guy/Fire are a still a step behind the JLA in a sense. What is there left for them to do? Charge into OMAC HQ and get themselves killed off?

Max may be coming back. Remember, Maxwell Lord isn't strictly human. He's a cyborg. It's fully possible to have a broken neck repaired in that case.

[Apathy Boy]

Don't forget that the entire Injustice Gang (except Major Disaster and Cluemaster, sort of) was killed off in the second SUICIDE SQUAD series.

Whoever wrote that issue should be ashamed of himself. I hope he gets sued by Keith Giffen.

[Phoney Bone]

Don't forget that the entire Injustice Gang (except Major Disaster and Cluemaster, sort of) was killed off in the second SUICIDE SQUAD series.

Whoever wrote that issue should be ashamed of himself. I hope he gets sued by Keith Giffen.

Proof positive that DC has had a vendetta against the Giffen Era League!

[Paul Newell]

Don't forget that the entire Injustice Gang (except Major Disaster and Cluemaster, sort of) was killed off in the second SUICIDE SQUAD series.

Whoever wrote that issue should be ashamed of himself. I hope he gets sued by Keith Giffen.
Is this a joke? Or you really didn't know Giffen wrote that series?

[mastaflan]

Black Condor even though he aint Giffen....

[tricksterpup]

Edit: Oh, and while Ice could be included, she died years ago.
Yes she did, but she was killed before the Crisis began so her death doesn't Count, this tally is only for Crisis related Deaths. :)

[Agent Cooper]

Is this a joke? Or you really didn't know Giffen wrote that series?

I hope it's a joke.

However, that death wasn't permanent for Cluemaster, right? And MultiMan dies all the time, so I have no doubt he'll be coming back.

Also, let's not forget Skeets! His is the most troubling death in this whole Crisis/OMAC/Whatever thing so far.

[Expletive Deleted]

It's like the "Infinity Inc Curse" all over again.

[LibrarianThorne]

Rucka has said that Giffen is doing something in the Crisis. Maybe we'll see a resurrection of the Giffen League? It would be a great base for a new League, and Giffen writing Green Arrow would probably have me in stitches.

[Kid Kyoto]

Didn't they say Rocket Red is being hunted by OMAC? I forget which interview that was...

Is Mister Miracle currently dead?

[Kirk G]

If I were Booster Gold, I would be looking into time machine technology... it might be a good time to go back to his home century.
Why can't Booster Gold get in his time machine and go back a few months to stop Maxwell Lord and Beetle and save this whole Crisis from happening?

Oh, yeah, and while we're at it, hasn't Booster Gold DIED in the 80 page spectacular "Countdown to Infinate Crisisi?" Or did I miss something?

[Kirk G]

Oh, and while Ice could be included, she died years ago.

Hey!
When did this happen???
Was I asleep?
Somebody explain this one to me please. What were the circumstances?

(I picked up the JLA Classified: Seems like the JLS mini series 6 parts, and was suprised to see some riff about Ice being in hades, but I thought that was all part of the joke... that it wasn't real hades, but each character's personal hades... Was I right? Or is she REALLY dead? and who did it?) :eek:

[shawnh]

That's what I don't understand about WW breaking Max's neck. As far as I remember he's just a human consciousness transferred into a robot body by the Kilg%re now. Remember when he died and came back in the Lord Havok body, calling himself Lord Maxwell? I think they buried his body, at least they had a funeral, and he was dying of brain cancer so I doubt the robot body contains any organic parts at all. And maybe it doesn't count, but in Formerly Known as Manga Khan scans him and he seems all robot in the scan.

Just because he looks like himself doesn't mean he never became a robot. The Kilg%re technology apparently allowed him to take any form he likes.

[shawnh]

Hey!
When did this happen???
Was I asleep?
Somebody explain this one to me please. What were the circumstances?

(I picked up the JLA Classified: Seems like the JLS mini series 6 parts, and was suprised to see some riff about Ice being in hades, but I thought that was all part of the joke... that it wasn't real hades, but each character's personal hades... Was I right? Or is she REALLY dead? and who did it?) :eek:

Ice has been dead for at least 10 years. She was killed by the Overmaster in Justice League Task Force 14. They gave her a "bad girl" attitude and new costume for a little while before that, too.

[Shellhead]

Hey!
When did this happen???
Was I asleep?
Somebody explain this one to me please. What were the circumstances?

(I picked up the JLA Classified: Seems like the JLS mini series 6 parts, and was suprised to see some riff about Ice being in hades, but I thought that was all part of the joke... that it wasn't real hades, but each character's personal hades... Was I right? Or is she REALLY dead? and who did it?) :eek:

Mark Waid killed Ice, or at least allowed her to be killed. Justice League Task Force #14. The killer was Overmaster. Her brother got powers from Overmaster, and when he died in an explosion, she absorbed some of that power and fell under the control of the Overmaster. She later broke free and was killed by him.

[shawnh]

Why can't Booster Gold get in his time machine and go back a few months to stop Maxwell Lord and Beetle and save this whole Crisis from happening?

Oh, yeah, and while we're at it, hasn't Booster Gold DIED in the 80 page spectacular "Countdown to Infinate Crisisi?" Or did I miss something?

You're mixed up. Beetle died, not Booster. I don't think Booster has a time machine, at least not anymore. He went back to the future once and Rip Hunter had to save him. He got really badly hurt in that fight with the Overmaster and if he could have gotten access to future medicine he would have tried, I think.

[yenaled]

I've been making the same points about Max Lord being a cyborg, but no-one seems to know anything.

Friends of mine think that he was turned human again but no-one can remember any issue where it took place.

I'd love to get an answer or at least Rucka to say "shh, forget that. only giffen fanboys know that so keep it under-raps." It would at least stop me from expecting him to come back.

[Sabrinaset]

I'm guessing adjacent funeral plots.

I'm going to be laughing for hours over that one! :)

[Phoney Bone]

Also, let's not forget Skeets! His is the most troubling death in this whole Crisis/OMAC/Whatever thing so far.

You can't count Skeets with this thread. He never appeared in the Giffen League books. Come to think of it, I don't remember if Skeets was ever even MENTIONED in the League books (I may be wrong).

[shawnh]

You can't count Skeets with this thread. He never appeared in the Giffen League books. Come to think of it, I don't remember if Skeets was ever even MENTIONED in the League books (I may be wrong).

He appeared in at least one of the post Giffen books. I know he was in Extreme Justice. Skeets was used to make Booster a suit of armor. I have no idea how he got from there to Beetle's goggles, but the idea Michael didn't know where he was is kind of silly. And if Max stole him and put him in the goggles after Extreme Justice ended, what would he have used it to spy on? Beetle wasn't on any other major teams, except for a short time in the LAW series, until Superbuddies, and though he hung out with Oracle he was often out of costume.

As for Yenaled's comment, they can't name an issue because it didn't happen. Max is all robot.

It just seems to me DC is ignoring anything that doesn't suit them in terms of continuity, logic and character motivation, as long as it helps cram this story through.

[Phoney Bone]

If Max is all robot, why did his nose bleed when he used his powers? From what I can recall (again, if I'm wrong please correct) after the whole Construct storyline was finished, it turned out that the Max Lord in the first few issues of Justice League was a cyborg duplicate of the real Max Lord.

[shawnh]

If Max is all robot, why did his nose bleed when he used his powers? From what I can recall (again, if I'm wrong please correct) after the whole Construct storyline was finished, it turned out that the Max Lord in the first few issues of Justice League was a cyborg duplicate of the real Max Lord.

You are right, kinda, but your timeline is way off. That happened very early in the series. Max became a robot almost 100 issues later, near the end of the Justice League America series. As I said earlier, he was dying of brain cancer and the Kilg%re, a techno-organic Flash enemy, found him a new body. This storyline also revealed that Max had, guess what, always been part of a secret evil organization based on a game, a Royal Flush Gang offshoot called the Arcana. Counting the Construct storyline, Max has now been revealed to have been secretly working for the other side three times.

[Apathy Boy]

Is this a joke? Or you really didn't know Giffen wrote that series?Yeah, that was an attempt at humour.

Regarding Cluemaster: yeah, his death didn't last long. Giffen had actually intended for the death to be permanent, but he never thought to ask if anyone had plans for the character. Turns out the character was being featured quite prominently in Chuck Dixon's books at the same time. Whoops.

[Paul Newell]

Yeah, that was an attempt at humour.

*Phew* I was worried. The mock-seriousness was so convincing I wasn't sure. Good job! :)

[Phoney Bone]

Giffen wrote the second Suicide Squad series????





;)

[Phoney Bone]

shawnh... Max became a robot almost 100 issues later, near the end of the Justice League America series. As I said earlier, he was dying of brain cancer and the Kilg%re, a techno-organic Flash enemy, found him a new body.

Ahhh... now I get it. I had quit reading the book by then (it just wasn't as fun to read anymore).

[thik_3rd]

I really like the miniseries, and hte COuntdown in general, but is it any coincedence that the most outlandish and light-hearted of them (VU) is the one most liked?

Do you mean VU (Villains United) or DoV (Day of Vengeance)? I haven't heard that VU is all that "outlandish" or "light-hearted" - whereas DoV has Detective Chimp and a ragtag collection of oddballs trying to take down Eclipso and/or the Spectre, and wisecracking all the way.

Maven
my thoughts exactly. hell, vu has an issue where they sit around getting tortuered all day (albeit it's the most family friendly torture scene ever). but in the grand scheme of things as far as light hearted outlandishness goess, detective chimp > vu.

[shawnh]

I guess I have my answer, from this article. It appears Max isn't a robot and never was because people didn't like or read those stories (including Formerly Known As?). And DC really, really wants him to be human. I wish they'd have at least explained it, though, instead of throwing it down the memory hole.

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=40070

"Several names were tossed out, DiDio said, such as Sarge Steel, King Faraday, Mr. Jupiter and others, and then Max Lord was suggested. Many of the editors thought that the idea made sense, as Lord had been shown to have a mean streak and to have killed previously, but the idea of using Lord was tabled after someone said, in DiDio’s words, “Yeah, but wasn’t he a Cyborg nd wasn’t he taken apart?”

According to DiDio, the focus then shifted to Mr. Jupiter, an old Teen Titans nemesis, but the editors felt “Mr. Jupiter” sounded old fashioned, so the character’s handle was changed to “Mr. J.” This worked for a while, DiDio said, until they were working through the outline of Countdown (months before writing started or plans were finalized), and came to the conclusion.

”And we got to the part where Beetle is killed, and we all said, ‘Mr. J kills Blue Beetle.’” DiDio stopped to roll his eyes as the crowd laughed. “’Mr. J kills Blue Beetle?’ Not only does it have overtones of the Joker, but it just sounded stupid.”

This led the editors to give Lord a second look, and when the mention came again that Lord was revealed to be a cyborg…”We thought about that aspect of the story some more and then asked, ‘Did anyone read it?’ No. ‘Did anyone like the idea?’ No. So we moved ahead with Max as being a human, and having been a human, and not letting that small part of the past stand in the way of this story. We wanted what was best for Countdown, and for us, that meant that "Max had to be a human.”

[JeffreyWKramer]

Max may be coming back. Remember, Maxwell Lord isn't strictly human. He's a cyborg. It's fully possible to have a broken neck repaired in that case.

No, the DC editorial folk decided the Max-as-cyborg story never happened, by the same sort of fiat which allowed for the Byrne DOOM PATROL reboot.

Dont' believe it? Check the recent con coverage of IDENTITY CRISIS and related stuff.

Edit: Shawnh links to said coverage in the post imediately above this one. That's what I get for not reading all the way thru the thread before responding.

[Sk8maven]

This is all starting to sound eerily familiar. Shortly before Zero Hour, Hypertime was breaking out all over, and people and events were changing and appearing and disappearing randomly because Time itself was breaking down.

All the semi-random changes and inconsistencies are starting to point to the same thing happening again. But who, or what, is behind it this time? Could it be...the Anti-Monitor? ;)

Maven

[JeffreyWKramer]

This is all starting to sound eerily familiar. Shortly before Zero Hour, Hypertime was breaking out all over, and people and events were changing and appearing and disappearing randomly because Time itself was breaking down.

Really, that's about the only way to explain stuff like Byrne's DOOM PATROL reboot in-continuity. Then there's the overt stuff, like several alt-time versions of Power Girl showing up at once, briefly, in a recent issue of JSA.

[Phoney Bone]

Really, that's about the only way to explain stuff like Byrne's DOOM PATROL reboot in-continuity. Then there's the overt stuff, like several alt-time versions of Power Girl showing up at once, briefly, in a recent issue of JSA.

Don't forget even MORE overt stuff like the JLU animated satellite popping up in The Flash in the place of the old JLA satellite in a flashback when Wally reads Barry's "confession" letter about altering the personalities of some of the Rouges.

[Paradox]

Shellhead has it:

Mark Waid killed Ice, or at least allowed her to be killed.

It was indeed Mark and it was his idea. I heard him talking about it at a con a few years back, and how he completely regrets doing it, and how he now thinks it was a bad idea.

[Captain]

After OMAC #5

Add

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

Rocket Red Seven to the list.

[GoGo Yubari]

After OMAC #5

Add

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

Rocket Red Seven to the list.


ARRRRRRRRRGH. *Headdesk.*

[shawnh]

I thought Rocket Red 7 was the Manhunter android, already destroyed? Was the Rocket Red killed Dimitri from JLE, who I thought was Rocket Red 4?

[titanfan]

Yeah they made a mistake. Rocket Red #4 is supposed to be Dmitri, but they screwed up and gave him his original number. I was impressed that they researched his wife and kids name, but forgot to read up to the story where #7 turned out to be a Manhunter.

Even though I love the Giffen League, I'm not going to feign that I care all that much about Rocket Red. He did go out heroically at least. The only thing I'm dissappointed about is that it his death was a little predictable. I was hoping to be thrown a swerve in that he would actually live through the mini.