Backlash against DC? Did they LIE to us on purpose?

[The Shadow]

This was posted at Newsarama:
“I want to say, before anything else that we tried very hard to build OMAC so that you weren’t obligated to buy anything else, and we failed,” Rucka said. “We really did. I’ll cop to it – I won’t lie about it. And we did it by playing dirty pool too – if you were buying The OMAC Project, you really need the Superman and Wonder Woman books to know what’s happening in issue #4 of the miniseries. If you don’t read them, it’s possible to understand them, but you don’t get the emotional resonance. That was a little bit of dirty pool, but we didn’t plan it out that way – we weren’t looking to spring this on people, but that’s the way it happened, and again, we’re sorry. So instead of a six issue miniseries, you get a ten issue miniseries, and I won’t fault any reader for not picking it up. I’d still suggest them though, because they’re a good story and worth reading, but I’d suggest, if nothing else, you pick up Wonder Woman #219 at the very least – call it issue OMAC #3.5 if you must, because it sets up the events of OMAC #4.”
Seems DC lied about not having to buy everything to understand the crossovers and that the mini's were stand alones.

I get all the books anyway, but it really pisses me off because this isn't something that would have just POPPED up at the last moment... DC would have KNOWN about this for weeks if not MONTHS (with writing, drawing and production of the book) that they could and I think SHOULD have let people know earlier... instead of half way through the mini series' in question. Makes me wonder how many more "accidents" will slip through the cracks.

The apology itself seems forced as well. You apologise for an accident and I can live with it... but an apology for intentionally deceiving DC fans is pretty hard to swallow, especially because even from the big guy, Dan Didio, this was NOT suppose to happen.

As for Marvel and the House of M... I have liked the mini from the start, and have only picked up the books I normally collect anyway (I don't get the Hulk for example) and feel like I've got all of the story that pertains to characters I like. The tie in books have just enhanced and filled out the House of M world... but weren't NEEDED to understand any part of it.

Kudos to Marvel for doing a great crossover so far and shame on DC for pulling the wool over buyers' eyes with lies!

[kash]

I dun think Rucka's apology felt forced at all.
if you look at it this way, it was necessary to put sacrifice in books other than OMAC:

WW and supes are bit players only in the OMAC project as it belongs to Bats, Sasha and Booster

a story this big would have felt way too decompressed had it been included as part of a 6 part storyline

there was a recap of it in OMAC 4, so it wasn't absolutely necessary to read the crossover, it only made things better

as for House of M, save for Wolverine im still not interested after 4 issues, unlike all the countdown minis whihc have me waiting month after month

[Chris Thomas]

I agree that dc was rather sneaky here and that omac is really a 10 issue series. however, I think the 4 extra issues can be summed up in about one sentence, so you could quickly catch up before omac 4 with just perhaps quick one-line spoiler.

to be honest, the real problem with the sacrifice 'mini' is that it was full of a bunch of freaking fluff. the first 2 issues were bascially the same damn story (with a different 'villian') and the 3rd didn't really add much either.

don't get me started on HoM. the dov and vu minis are much better to me than any of the HoM stuff.

and I won't even mention the seven sodiers (whichisthebestcrossoverbeingdonebyanyone)

[The Shadow]

I dun think Rucka's apology felt forced at all.
if you look at it this way, it was necessary to put sacrifice in books other than OMAC:
Then they should have SAID SO months ago and NOT sold the run as a "you won't HAVE to buy any other books OUTSIDE the mini's to get the story"... now I find out that's untrue. That's deception on DC's part, and THEN they didn't tell anyone until the books were released!

a story this big would have felt way too decompressed had it been included as part of a 6 part storyline
I think you mean COMPRESSED. Decompressed is streatching a 4 issue arc into a 6 issue arc. DC could have made OMAC 10 issues then.

AND NOT LIED from the beginning. If they said blah blah blah EXCEPT OMAC where you will have to buy..." then I would be satisfied. This is just underhanded.

[The Shadow]

Here are the DC solicits regarding the Sacrifice issues:
Superman 219:

Written by Mark Verheiden; Art and cover by Ed Benes

Part 1 of the 4-part "Sacrifice," arcing through all the Superman books and WONDER WOMAN #219 and featuring the return of Superman's deadliest enemies! Brainiac knows all of the Man of Steel's secrets, and he's putting that knowledge to use in a lethal fashion. Is Superman about to lose another piece of his humanity?

Superman | 32pg. | Color | $2.50 US


Action Comics 829:

ritten by Gail Simone; Art by John Byrne and Nelson; Cover by Byrne

In Part 2 of the 4-part "Sacrifice," Superman battles Darkseid in a fight for his life! And the Man of Steel is even pitted against his allies in the JLA as he struggles to defeat his foe and keep his loved ones safe! But is an even deadlier villain behind it all?

Superman | 32pg. | Color | $2.50 US

Adventures of Superman 642:

Written by Greg Rucka; Art and cover by Karl Kerschl

Part 3 of the 4-part "Sacrifice," arcing through all the July-shipping Superman titles and WONDER WOMAN #219! As Darkseid and Granny Goodness amp up the danger to all those around Superman, will he have to take matters into his own hands by becoming judge, jury and executioner?

Superman | 32pg. | Color | $2.50 US

On Sale July 27, 2005

Wonder Woman 219:

Written by Greg Rucka; Art by Rags Morales & Michael Bair; Cover by J.G. Jones

The 4-part "Sacrifice" leaps from the Superman titles to its stunning conclusion in WONDER WOMAN, as the Man of Steel turns his attention toward an unexpected enemy! But with Wonder Woman deadset against Superman's plan to even the score, the two heroes collide in an event that will send shock waves throughout the DCU!

DC Universe | 32pg. | Color | $2.25 US

On Sale July 27, 2005
Those were published 2 MONTHS in advance and there is NO MENTION of an OMAC crossover. THAT is when DC should have taken the bullet and said "Oops... we screwed up..."

[Chris Thomas]

in reality the solicit should have looked like this

superman 219

not much happens here. superman may or may not attack braniac or something

action comics 829

not much happens here. superman may or may not attack darkseid or something

adventures of superman 642

not much happens here until the end. just read the last 3 pages. otherwise, just think 'superman 219 and action comics 829 with ruin'

wonder woman 219

you might want to read a synopsis of this before omac #4. or not.

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

Either way, it worked for me.

First time I've been interested in a Superman monthly in years.

[pureclint]

Yeah it was cheap, I blame Rucka just as much as DC though it was his mini to write. I think his ego might have gotten in the way and he wanted to rub some extra juice from OMAC onto his WW run.

I do agree they should have owned up to it months ago, but I will give him credit for the appology and for saying "Yeah we effed up". At least he did not attack the fans like Finch did when he dropped the ball in AD and again in NA.

If I could I would return two of the four issues of Sacrifice as they were not necessary.

[Andy S.]

Shadow has a pretty good point here. I mean, when we first heard about these mini-series, back in April (or March) there was no mention of having to go outside the minis to get the whole story.

An event of the kind that takes place in Sacrifice has to be planned months in advance. I'm assuming the changes which involve Batman, Wonder Woman and Superman are going to have lasting effect well into and after Infinite Crisis (DC has claimed this much at least). This tie-in was planned. They had to know about this at least a month or two in advance, if not more. So yeah, a little warning ahead of time would have been appreciated.

Who knows, the same thing might happen with Infinite Crisis? They've been on record as saying that IC can be read as a self-contained story, but DC might just pop in an extra mini or two between issues. (not including the whole one year ahead thing)

Anyway, having said that, I enjoyed the Sacrifice storyline and it did have me anticipating each new chapter. I really didn't have to buy the tie-in or OMAC in the first place, either. I chose to buy it out of interest, not out of obligation.

[Expletive Deleted]

Those were published 2 MONTHS in advance and there is NO MENTION of an OMAC crossover. THAT is when DC should have taken the bullet and said "Oops... we screwed up..."That's the thing that gets me. They had ample (ample!) opportunity to make this work. Just solicit these as OMAC tie-ins. They didn't even have to solicit them as parts four through seven. They just had to mention it. One line, and there'd be no problem.

I'm not insulted or aggrieved so much as I am perplexed.

[Sk8maven]

Oh, come ON now, people, DC has been lying through its teeth ever since the solicits for Identity Crisis #1. At this point anyone who believes ANYTHING that ANYONE from DC says is more gullible than Johnny Thunder (the goofy guy with the pet genie, not the gunslinger).

Their credibility is up in smoke.

Maven

[Xero]

Oh just stop it, way too hot for this crap. No one's forcing you to buy the books.

The only reason people make topics like this is because they mistakenly believe that a ten page post of rambling misguided spewings might just catch the eye of that DC office intern with delusions of grandeur with whom they had a "really cool chat on IRC" and "definately bonded with" because they were "on the inside looking out man, I've seen the truth, and it's all evil corporate bullshit and ...oooh shiny paper". :rolleyes:

[JeffreyWKramer]

That's the thing that gets me. They had ample (ample!) opportunity to make this work. Just solicit these as OMAC tie-ins. They didn't even have to solicit them as parts four through seven. They just had to mention it. One line, and there'd be no problem.

I'm not insulted or aggrieved so much as I am perplexed.

They lied, pure and simple. Given the lag time between writing/drawing the books and putting them on the stands, they've known about this for months now, and they announce it only after OMAC #4 is on the stands.

If an honest person makes an honest mistake, he or she owns up to it as soon as it's clear the mistake has been made, not months later. This shows Rucka and DC to not be honest in their dealings with the fans and retailers.

[Yoda]

No big deal to me, i pick them all up anyways. It makes no sense for them not to advertise it as an integral part of the story unless they goofed. They would have sold more copies if they did.

It was a great arc. They can lie to me all they want if it means i get books this good. My comic shop was closed because of a freak power outage, i had to drive to a differant shop to pick these issues up. I didnt want to wait until thursday. So I'll end up with two copies of WW & OMAC. Worth it.

[Expletive Deleted]

They lied, pure and simple.Yeah, but to no discernable purpose. That's what's confusing. As Yoda noted, saying it was an OMAC tie-in up front would have almost definitely improved sales on these issues.

[Yoda]

Yeah, but to no discernable purpose. That's what's confusing. As Yoda noted, saying it was an OMAC tie-in up front would have almost definitely improved sales on these issues.

That's why I believe Rucka. It would have definitley improved sales on all the issues beyond what it already did. Wonder Woman in particular.

It probably was the case where they thought upfront that it wasn't going to be as integeral to the storyline as it was. Combined with the fact that the actual outcome could have been kept from many of the insiders at DC to keep it under wraps. It's not like the authors write the solicits. Rucka may have not realized until it was said and done that the full force of the story wouldnt be understood with out all the parts. Plus lets be honest, Sacrifice didnt need to be four parts. It easliy could have been two or three at the most. And it's not all that difficult to follow, I can see how they would have thought it could be read independantly.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Yeah, but to no discernable purpose. That's what's confusing. As Yoda noted, saying it was an OMAC tie-in up front would have almost definitely improved sales on these issues.

The purpose was to present OMAC as a relatively stand-alone series, so people who dislike crossovers, as well as those who enjoy them, would be more likely to buy them.

Remember, VILLAINS UNITED, RANN/THANAGAR, DAY OF VENGEANCE and OMAC were all announced as being stand-alone, complete-in-themselves stories. The propaganda back before they came out was that this wasn't a return to the bad old days of red skies crossovers and titles that require you to buy other titles to get the story. Yet we've had red skies crossovers for OMAC (BoP) and now OMAC not being complete of itself.

DC wants to pretend it isn't the same old crap, when it is. They figure, suck people in, they'll stay.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Rucka may have not realized until it was said and done that the full force of the story wouldnt be understood with out all the parts.

Reality check again. The books were written months ago. Why did Rucka's apology only come along today?

[Headhunter]

I think it was an honest mistake; Greg Rucka has always come across as a credible and honest guy, in my opinion.

These things happen; it's a lesson learned for the next time DC tries a big project like this.

[Expletive Deleted]

The purpose was to present OMAC as a relatively stand-alone series, so people who dislike crossovers, as well as those who enjoy them, would be more likely to buy them.So your theory is that, if they had announced it as ten parter instead of a six parter from the start, it would have been a harder sell?

Maybe it's that I wasn't predisposed to buying it in the first place, but I can't see that making much of a difference. People who like crossovers would still have bought it. People who didn't still wouldn't have.

After reading a few other websites, though, I'm starting to be a fan of the "cheap ploy to create a hot back-issue and make a killing on the second printing" theory.

[JeffreyWKramer]

So your theory is that, if they had announced it as ten parter instead of a six parter from the start, it would have been a harder sell?

Maybe it's that I wasn't predisposed to buying it in the first place, but I can't see that making much of a difference. People who like crossovers would still have bought it. People who didn't still wouldn't have.

Remember, though, as originally announced, OMAC was supposed to be self-contained, with the crossovers supplementary but not necessary to the book. Those who like "event" comics but not crossovers might have bought it on that understanding, but might not if they'd had to buy a bunch of other books. Signing up for a six-part self-contained story in one title is different for some people than having to buy issues of other books to get the story.

After reading a few other websites, though, I'm starting to be a fan of the "cheap ploy to create a hot back-issue and make a killing on the second printing" theory.
That is potentially a very viable motive as well.

[The Shadow]

After reading a few other websites, though, I'm starting to be a fan of the "cheap ploy to create a hot back-issue and make a killing on the second printing" theory.
hehehe

I thought of that too.

I think it's really low. :mad:

[pureclint]

Reality check again. The books were written months ago. Why did Rucka's apology only come along today?

That is fairly simple.

Because the books that proved it came out today.

hehehe

I thought of that too.

I think it's really low. :mad:

Well thanks to Marvel the crap meter on hype is through the roof. I would chalk it up to that and really it is the first instance of the DC hype machine failing recently.

[grendel824]

Saying they "lied" is at best just plain ignorant, and at worst is itself a lie. Try bothering to actually read the facts as Rucka and DC state them. Rucka is just apologizing for the story being a lot better if you read an extra issue or two rather than being able to cram everything into separate books. Nobody is forced to buy anything to get a story - they just naturally don't get the WHOLE story (which makes logical sense, unless you were expecting two separate books to have the exact same pages in them), and references are made to other stories that they might otherwise have preferred not to make (*GASP* - as though EVERY SINGLE COMIC EVER doesn't pretty much have references to other comics in them). Grow up. :rolleyes:

[grendel824]

Reality check again. The books were written months ago. Why did Rucka's apology only come along today?

Reality check again again - Rucka cannot read finished product that hasn't been printed yet, as he does not have super-powers (at least none applicable to this scenario). He noticed when he was able to read the books in near-finished form, when they were ready to print, which ostensibly is when he made his apology, which he really didn't have to do because most people dumb enough to throw a hissy fit over it would be too dumb to notice had he said nothing about it.

[Patriot07]

You all (besides a few of you) realized these are comics, right? You're overreacting like these characters are your children and that the writers are lying about life and death. Comics are a form of entertainment and if you guys are just going to go online and bitch about how evil comic book writers are, stop reading. It appears they are causing more trouble for you. Pick up a new hobby like hiking or swimming. If you aren't having fun with comics, you're wasting your money.

[JeffreyWKramer]

You all (besides a few of you) realized these are comics, right? You're overreacting like these characters are your children and that the writers are lying about life and death. Comics are a form of entertainment and if you guys are just going to go online and bitch about how evil comic book writers are, stop reading. It appears they are causing more trouble for you. Pick up a new hobby like hiking or swimming. If you aren't having fun with comics, you're wasting your money.

First off, don't tell me what to do.

Second, I have lots of fun with comics. I just dislike crappy comics, and crappy stunts like this.

[Suzanne]

I'm with Patriot and Grendel. If we're talking about an additional two comics that tie in, what's the big deal? Just let it go.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Reality check again again - Rucka cannot read finished product that hasn't been printed yet, as he does not have super-powers (at least none applicable to this scenario). He noticed when he was able to read the books in near-finished form, when they were ready to print, which ostensibly is when he made his apology, which he really didn't have to do because most people dumb enough to throw a hissy fit over it would be too dumb to notice had he said nothing about it.

You have a skewed view of reality, for sure. Rucka wrote all the relevant books other than ACTION. He knew all along that a big chunk of the events didn't happen in OMAC PROJECT. He made the apology today, not when the books were going to the printer.

You have a grasp of facts skewed enough to apply for a job as a White House press secretary.

[K'Nort]

Actually, the part that now confuses me the most is why Rucka said that WW is necessary to understand OMAC #4. I got to the shop at 4:30 today and was going to go ahead and buy WW but with annoyance. But it was already thoroughly sold out. Everyone had already heard the news. Now Rucka lives here, so it's possible they'll make him come by later with a big stack of extras. If he means it about being sorry and all. But in the meantime, I said to hell with it and went ahead and read OMAC #4. I thought it made sense. Then I went in and read the WW synopsis/spoilers and I basically didn't miss anything. Okay, apparently there would be more emotional impact to see it over 22 pages instead of 4, but oh well. I did just fine without it.

[The Shadow]

Saying they "lied" is at best just plain ignorant, and at worst is itself a lie.
Wow, that's condecending of you.

Try bothering to actually read the facts as Rucka and DC state them.
The FACTS are DC hyped OMAC (and the other 3 mini's) as STANDALONE series' that would have TIE-IN's but those tie-ins would NOT be needed to understand or alter the reading of (in this case) OMAC. Now that's been proven untrue... Rucka said so. How is what I say a lie or ignorant? What DC and Rucka did was a lie and ignorant. They could have solicited the series as 10 issues, they could have admitted this MONTHS ago... but they did neither, instead continuing their deception.

Rucka is just apologizing for the story being a lot better if you read an extra issue or two rather than being able to cram everything into separate books.
No, he's apologising (if you had read the VERY first post WITH his apology) for lying.

Nobody is forced to buy anything to get a story - they just naturally don't get the WHOLE story (which makes logical sense, unless you were expecting two separate books to have the exact same pages in them)
No, what I was expecting (and what DC promised) was a stand alone mini that didn't need OTHER outside books to complete. Without the Supermans and Wonder Woman you won't understand what's happening in OMAC... and DCand Rucka said this would NOT happen.

Grow up
Learn to read :rolleyes:

[The Shadow]

If we're talking about an additional two comics that tie in, what's the big deal? Just let it go.
4 additional comics and the fact OMAC was suppose to be a stand alone WITHOUT needing outside books.

[The Shadow]

Reality check again again - Rucka cannot read finished product that hasn't been printed yet
LOL

Yeah... as said below he had almost TOTAL control over this entire series and all tie ins.

He WROTE the stories (except for Action)... each issue is 22 pages (without ads)... so he KNEW 6 issues wasn't enough... he KNEW people would have to read other books... he KNEW, and did nothing.

[Paul Newell]

Place nice, guys. Anymore heated tempers and I'll close the thread.

[The Shadow]

Place nice, guys. Anymore heated tempers and I'll close the thread.
Except for grendel824's comment I think we've all been pretty civil

[StoneGold]

Honestly, you know what the biggest f-up was? And I don't care about lying, or whatever. But something at the beginning of OMAC, before the death reveal, that said "GO READ THESE OTHER BOOKS FIRST SO YOU KNOW WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON AND DON'T THINK YOU MISSES AN ISSUE" would have been nice. Because if you read OMAC first, you were screwed. Guess what I did?

[hondobrode]

Well, the Sacrifice storyline is marked on the covers as an OMAC crossover...

I think it's a pretty grey area, myself. I haven't read either OMAC # 4 or the Sacrifice storyline yet, but will read them and compare. I'll bet I could have picked up on essentially what is going on without the Sacrifice issues but of course having them gives it more depth and texture, hence, more enjoyable.

I agree with The Shadow in a way, in that at the end of OMAC # 3, they really steer you towards the Sacrifice crossover and say "You really need to read this to get the most out of what's coming next !" He's right in that they said that wasn't going to happen. It looks to me more of an editorial snafu than Rucka's fault, tho I don't think he's blameless or innocently naive here. Of course all of this is done months in advance and yes, unfortunately, he seems less than genuine in my eyes anyway with his empty apology.

OTOH, I have eventually picked up every Crisis crossover I could, and have enjoyed them all immensely.

Not the biggest of sins, but more a page out of the Marvel Overhype Schtick of Selling a Few Extra Copies the Greasy Way. Hopefully it won't happen again. DC's not perfect by any means, but I think fandom at large, esp the older fans like myself who know their history, respect DC for its lack of carnival barker empty stunts and slight of hand tricks unlike their competition who's constantly overstating the next angst fest.

[The Crime Dentist]

Wow, some of you guys are pissed. I'd hate to see how you'd react to something that actually mattered. "Wah, you didn't tell me to buy Wonder Woman! I hate you DC, you lying filth!"

Yeesh. Leave the basement for once.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Have fun with your dogpile, boys. I hope it makes you all feel better about yourselves to think that Greg Rucka and DC editorial are out to screw you over. DC and Rucka made a mistake, a big one. They thought OMAC could stand on its own without any other comics, but underestimated how important "Sacrifice" was to the main story. Their bad. And Rucka is owning up to it, knowing full well that he's gonna get tarred and feathered for it.

If you want to think this was some malicious attempt to decieve you, fair enough. I wish I could convince you otherwise, but I think some of you actually want DC Comics to be out to screw you over because it gives you yet another excuse to bitch and complain about the comics you read and nail yourselves up on your fanboy crosses.

Personally, I think people make honest mistakes sometimes, say things that they reconsider after the fact or change their mind at the last minute when they take another look at a situation. I believe that's the case here.

I'm sure many of you will disagree, but I hope enough of you aren't so entrenched in this idiotic Persecuted Fanboy Complex that you can look at things like I do. If you can't, well, I'm sorry.

[Son of Shadow]

The solicitaion for OMAC 4:

The events of "Sacrifice," rocking July's WONDER WOMAN #219 and all three SUPERMAN titles, force an endgame in THE OMAC PROJECT, one of four great miniseries spinning out of COUNTDOWN TO INFINITE CRISIS! Checkmate turns against itself as titans clash in the heavens — and Brother Eye breaks free!

I think this solicitation makes it fairly clear that WW 219 was going to be important. Maybe it's not fair to have to buy extra issues, but you can't say you weren't warned.

[The Shadow]

Personally, I think people make honest mistakes sometimes, say things that they reconsider after the fact or change their mind at the last minute when they take another look at a situation. I believe that's the case here.
But they had MORE than enough time to tell people, let them know they made a mistake, screwed up... whatever. But these books were written and drawn MONTHS in advance... it's not like on monday they realized this for wednesdays shipping.

Hey, I KNOW people make mistakes (I've made a few), what I'm pissed at is the way this was handled and the fact DC hyped (Marvel style) OMAC as a stand alone mini series... and it wasn't. Plain and simple.

[The Shadow]

Wow, some of you guys are pissed. I'd hate to see how you'd react to something that actually mattered. "Wah, you didn't tell me to buy Wonder Woman! I hate you DC, you lying filth!"
Excellent. You see my point!

Leave the basement for once.
I don't know many people in the new city I live in... I wouldn't have anywhere to go! LOL

[Calamas]

I understand the point of the thread . . . but isn't the bigger issue here that another DC icon has committed an act that half the villains they fight would not even consider? DC’s biggest sin has nothing to do with misinformation while shilling their product.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

But they had MORE than enough time to tell people, let them know they made a mistake, screwed up... whatever. But these books were written and drawn MONTHS in advance... it's not like on monday they realized this for wednesdays shipping.

Hey, I KNOW people make mistakes (I've made a few), what I'm pissed at is the way this was handled and the fact DC hyped (Marvel style) OMAC as a stand alone mini series... and it wasn't. Plain and simple.

Look, this seems to be a case of well-intentioned people making a big mistake and trying to own up to it, and you're jumping all over them for it and accusing them of lying to you. Let me repeat that: YOU ARE CALLING SOMEONE A LIAR BECAUSE THEY ADMITTED MAKING A BIG MISTAKE & APOLOGISED FOR IT.

You say you've made a few mistakes, well, I think is one of them.

[mr_street]

you guys are forgetting that Rucka doesn't write ahead too far\, only as far as he is required by deadlines, it is seriously possi\ble that the sacrifice story came up after the OMAC #1 solisitation.

rucka possible thought when time came to write the styory, the more it befelt the need to crossover.

and if you're not reading wonder woman, well thats just sad.

[Kevinroc]

you guys are forgetting that Rucka doesn't write ahead too far\, only as far as he is required by deadlines, it is seriously possi\ble that the sacrifice story came up after the OMAC #1 solisitation.

rucka possible thought when time came to write the styory, the more it befelt the need to crossover.

and if you're not reading wonder woman, well thats just sad.

Rucka hadn't even finished OMAC when Comic Con happened and several DC employees made mention of this.

[The Shadow]

and if you're not reading wonder woman, well thats just sad.
No kidding!

IMO one of the MOST underrated comics on the stands!

[Kevinroc]

No kidding!

IMO one of the MOST underrated comics on the stands!

I was... But then lost all interest in Rucka's work following the ID Crisis issue of Adventures and then Countdown.

Rucka's take on these characters is not one I'm interested in reading anymore.

[grendel824]

Wow, that's condecending of you.


Wow, that's easy to say while you're being so sickeningly condescending yourself. How fun!


The FACTS are DC hyped OMAC (and the other 3 mini's) as STANDALONE series' that would have TIE-IN's but those tie-ins would NOT be needed to understand or alter the reading of (in this case) OMAC.


True.


Now that's been proven untrue... Rucka said so.


False. Rucka said what he actually said, not what you're cramming into his mouth, and that amounted to him feeling bad because there was a lot more subtext that is explained in another book than he had originally expected. One STILL does not need to read one to understand what is happening in the other. I know, because I did just that and I understand just fine. I bet I'll understand a lot MORE once I get around to reading the other, as there are things mentioned that aren't explained, but then, the book doesn't explain who exactly Superman is and everything he can do, either, and I'm getting along just fine with that, no "apology" or disgusting fanboy-raving needed.


How is what I say a lie or ignorant?


Because it's false, as I already said. It's a lie if you KNOW it's false, and it's ignorant if you DON'T know it's false - your spreading the falsehood is one or the other depending on your actual intentions, which I don't condescend to know.


What DC and Rucka did was a lie and ignorant.


That's the dumbest, most ignorant thing I've read in days. Congratulations! Rucka's a more honest and intelligent person than you are, at any rate. Make of it what you will.


They could have solicited the series as 10 issues, they could have admitted this MONTHS ago... but they did neither, instead continuing their deception.


BWA-HAHAHAAH! You're too much. So... are there really lame-os like this, or is this some game people play on the Internet and pretend to be this mentally challenged just to disgust the rest of us?


No, he's apologising (if you had read the VERY first post WITH his apology) for lying.


No, that would require him to a) lie, and b) admit to lying, neither of which he really does. He just feels bad that the books tie together more closely than they initially solicited or believed they would. Boo freaking hoo. It was nice of him to care so much about the story that he actually feels bad about it being slightly different than advertised, but it's far cry from him owing you or any whinging sub-literate crybabies a damned thing.


No, what I was expecting (and what DC promised) was a stand alone mini that didn't need OTHER outside books to complete.


Which you actually got, if you'd bother to read it.


Without the Supermans and Wonder Woman you won't understand what's happening in OMAC... and DCand Rucka said this would NOT happen.


You would if you were halfway literate. Which makes this...


Learn to read :rolleyes:

... so deliciously ironic it must be fattening. That was more than enough rope, and you did a great job of hanging yourself with it. Congratulations. Now go back to whining about how George Lucas raped your childhood or something equally stupid.

[Forsaken_One]

Gosh and golly, a massive corporation made a mistake and/or lied about something? What ever will I do, my view of the world is shattered. Next thing you know you'll say comic solicitations aren't always 100% accurate and covers don't always reflect what was in the comic proper. Oh noes!

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The Shadow & grendel824, I'm not the mod here, but you're only gonna get yourselves banned or the thread locked if you keep this childish name-calling and crap-flinging up. Chill out, both of you.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Gosh and golly, a massive corporation made a mistake and/or lied about something? What ever will I do, my view of the world is shattered. Next thing you know you'll say comic solicitations aren't always 100% accurate and covers don't always reflect what was in the comic proper. Oh noes!

Yeah, I know, the sky is falling! THE SKY IS FALLING!

[Tom]

I'm not sure I understand. From the moment this month's solicits were posted online, pretty much everyone knew that the Superman and WW books were tying in to the OMAC story. There was bitching about at the time. In fact, there was bitching about it right up to this week.

Don't get me wrong, it was (and still is) valid bitching, but I don't get where Rucka or DC "lied" about anything.

[grendel824]

The Shadow & grendel824, I'm not the mod here, but you're only gonna get yourselves banned or the thread locked if you keep this childish name-calling and crap-flinging up. Chill out, both of you.

LOL - you're calling me names as much as I'm calling him names (ie: Waaa! Bored is calling me a name-caller! Waaah... :rolleyes:). Take your own advice and chill out as well. Or butt out. Whatever. Don't make a molehill into a mountain just to throw your 2 cents in.

Of course, if you're actually and honestly concerned for the well-being of us and the thread, then thanks, but I think I've got my end covered. I'm not fighting anybody and I don't see anybody capabable of fighting me, so I'm not worried. Just stating facts and opinions about nameless hateful generic fanboys.

[Tom]

Okay grendel, I am a mod and I'm telling you to tone it down.

[Nick Kal]

I didn't read the Superman or Wonder Woman Comics until this Sacrifice crossover. And now I'm glad I did cause I loved them and will be buying 3 of the 4 series that tied in. Now if I wouldn't have read this would I have understood OMAC #4? Yes and No. It shows us the WW/ Max Lord thing but you wouldn't knopw why Batman is all battered. It's a little unfair but if you are really involved in Crisis why not just get these extra bits? Sure they said there would be no tie ins that you needed... but hey, DC isn't perfect, what do you want? At least we got a pretty good story out of the deal.

[Paul Newell]

Thanks for that, Tom.

This topic doesn't seem to be going anywhere...I think we're done here.

[Captain Jim]

Well, almost done. I've got to get my two cents in. ;)

I'd suggest some of you go back and read Rucka's words again. Two facts stand out in my eyes as particularly relevant here.

1) This four-part precurser crossover was entirely editorially driven. If you don't like it, blame the editor, not Greg.

2) It WAS NOT NECESSARY to read it in order to understand OMAC. Rucka simply says that OMAC will likely have more of an emotional impact if you read the crossover first (particularly the WW issue). Not the same thing at all IMHO.

And an opinion: I really think some of you just want an excuse to complain.