Remember when Robin was Batman's partner?

[chriskenny]

Who misses Batman and Robin being partners? I kind of do. Not that I mind Batman having solo adventures often, but I miss the original idea of Robin being by Batman's side. I would like to see that return. Lapham's City of Crime storyarc showcases in a neat way, but I would like to see wider acceptance of that angle of the relationship. I remember Chuck Dixon wrote it very well when he was on Detective Comics.

What do you guys think?

[robin529]

i like robin being on his own ya know having his own "robins nest" and all that other stuff

[Headhunter]

I think Batman should have a Robin, but they don't need to be joined at the waist. The best Batman films have been his solo adventures, I think that applies to comics as well.

[Buried Alien]

I think Frank Miller's ALL-STAR BATMAN AND ROBIN is designed to fill this particular need.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[The Xenos]

Man, Dixon's work on 'Tec was awesome. He did use Robin quite well. Hell, if any writer knows this Robin, it's Dixon.

-Xenos

[Alan2099]

I prefer Robin as a aprtner. He doesn't need his own little Robin's nest or anything. he's supposed to work with Batman.

[muimi]

Man, Dixon's work on 'Tec was awesome. He did use Robin quite well. Hell, if any writer knows this Robin, it's Dixon.

-Xenos

Yay, Dixon. Do you happen to know what issues he wrote (and/or what, if any, TPB his run was collected in?)

[chriskenny]

I think Frank Miller's ALL-STAR BATMAN AND ROBIN is designed to fill this particular need.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

True, but the best Robin is Tim Drake for me. I like their interaction.

[chriskenny]

Yay, Dixon. Do you happen to know what issues he wrote (and/or what, if any, TPB his run was collected in?)

Sorry, I don't recall all the actual numbers. But he wrote it for a number of years. He was definetly writing it during the Knightsend/Quest/Fall era.

I prefer Robin as a aprtner. He doesn't need his own little Robin's nest or anything. he's supposed to work with Batman.

I tend to agree. It sounds weird, but I just don't think Robin should be a solo character.

[clever_critic44]

I think batman should have a robin too. i would like to see that return

[Forsaken_One]

True, but the best Robin is Tim Drake for me. I like their interaction.But when was the last time Tim Drake was Batman's partner in terms of fighting by his side all the time? Ever since he got his own series (during Knightfall as I recall) he's been pretty much on his own and not interacting with Batman all that much. Hell, even when they did interact they had a much more adversarial relationship than Batman and Robin had before Tim.

So for me, it's hard to miss what I never really saw. I got on board with comics around Robin #1 (actually Death of Superman, which was a bit before that IIRC) so I don't have much experience with them being partners. Hell, even in the miniseries before the Robin series Tim was pretty much on his own, fighting his own villians.

[olympichero62]

For me, I just cant see Batman without Robin. It's boring to me.

[Gaz]

Sorry, I don't recall all the actual numbers. But he wrote it for a number of years. He was definetly writing it during the Knightsend/Quest/Fall era.



I tend to agree. It sounds weird, but I just don't think Robin should be a solo character.
But then he tends to get short-shrift as a character at all. The best Dick Grayson stories were often when he was off with the Titans.

[chriskenny]

But when was the last time Tim Drake was Batman's partner in terms of fighting by his side all the time? Ever since he got his own series (during Knightfall as I recall) he's been pretty much on his own and not interacting with Batman all that much. Hell, even when they did interact they had a much more adversarial relationship than Batman and Robin had before Tim.

So for me, it's hard to miss what I never really saw. I got on board with comics around Robin #1 (actually Death of Superman, which was a bit before that IIRC) so I don't have much experience with them being partners. Hell, even in the miniseries before the Robin series Tim was pretty much on his own, fighting his own villians.

Well, I only meant by my comic that Tim Drake is my favorite Robin. Your point is taken. It's why I posted the thread--Robin isn't paired up with Batman enough.

But Tim and Bruce did work together quite a bit, like I said, when Chuck Dixon wrote Detective Comics.

[chriskenny]

But then he tends to short-shrift as a character at all. The best Dick Grayson stories were often when he was off with the Titans.

I am not too familiar with his run over in Nightwing. Never read it.

[Gaz]

I am not too familiar with his run over in Nightwing. Never read it.
Dixon's Nightwing was also great, but I meant even in Wolfman's New Teen Titans, as Robin. He established his own identity, getting away from being in his "father"s shadow.

[chriskenny]

Dixon's Nightwing was also great, but I meant even in Wolfman's New Teen Titans, as Robin. He established his own identity, getting away from being in his "father"s shadow.

Which I think was a natural progression of Dick's character. But I feel like Tim is still young and I would like to see Batman actually give him guidance, support, and training once in a while.

[Forsaken_One]

Which I think was a natural progression of Dick's character. But I feel like Tim is still young and I would like to see Batman actually give him guidance, support, and training once in a while.
I think after all the mistakes, problems, screwups, and FUBAR situations Tim has seen Batman in (see: every single crossover from Knightfall to Wargames) for Batman to give anything other than detective and/or martial arts training to Robin would be just plain wrong.

I also think Tim's made Robin much more his own character and to have Batman suddenly swoop in and share adventures would feel out of place. If they really want to restore the Batman and Robin dynamic I think they'll have to start over fresh; give Robin a new identity, either civilian or as another crime fighter. He's about the same age as Dick was when he went out on his own (16 was the last birthday we saw, but he's probably closer to 17 now) so story-wise it could happen. I couldn't see Batman getting another Robin quickly after that whole Stephanie SNAFU, but give it two or three years and it'd be quite possible.

[Eumenides]

Paul O'Brien, from ninthart.com, has a recent article (http://www.ninthart.com/display.php?article=1072) about Robin in which he asks whether the Boy Wonder is still relevant nowadays:


If you were a superhero in the 1940s, then a kid sidekick came fitted as standard. It was a genre staple. Most of the major DC heroes had them. For that matter, so did Captain America and the Human Torch over at Timely. No major superhero was complete without the loyal accompaniment of a miniature version of himself. Mind you, "sophistication" and "credibility" were not exactly the watchwords of Golden Age superhero comics. They were, after all, kiddie books – not that there's anything wrong with that.

In a world of simple stories aimed at young readers, the kid sidekick made perfect sense. He was the reader identification figure. You, the reader, were not the superhero. The superhero was your dad, and he took you on adventures. And in the stories of the time, this all fitted together.

Of course, the style of the Golden Age is long since past. Even by the time of the Silver Age, while the DC teen sidekicks didn't seem grossly out of place, Lee and Kirby certainly weren't creating any new ones. It's surely no accident that Captain America was brought back without the annoying brat in tow.


And there's more. Whether you agree or disagree, I think it's an appropriate read for this thread.

[Charagon]

The idea of a sidekick has been replaced with the idea of a successor. They aren't training partners anymore. They are training replacements.

Dick was trained to be Batman's parnter.
Tim is being trained to be Batman.

[chriskenny]

I think after all the mistakes, problems, screwups, and FUBAR situations Tim has seen Batman in (see: every single crossover from Knightfall to Wargames) for Batman to give anything other than detective and/or martial arts training to Robin would be just plain wrong.

I also think Tim's made Robin much more his own character and to have Batman suddenly swoop in and share adventures would feel out of place. If they really want to restore the Batman and Robin dynamic I think they'll have to start over fresh; give Robin a new identity, either civilian or as another crime fighter. He's about the same age as Dick was when he went out on his own (16 was the last birthday we saw, but he's probably closer to 17 now) so story-wise it could happen. I couldn't see Batman getting another Robin quickly after that whole Stephanie SNAFU, but give it two or three years and it'd be quite possible.

I thought after the death of Tim's father, they would be drawn closer together in the more traditional father-son dynamic, but now he lives in Bludhaven all of a sudden, which is weird.

[chriskenny]

The idea of a sidekick has been replaced with the idea of a successor. They aren't training partners anymore. They are training replacements.

Dick was trained to be Batman's parnter.
Tim is being trained to be Batman.

But it has been clearly established in a bunch of Tim Drake stories that Tim has no plans of ever being Batman. I read an early Teen Titan book that says this and he said it in an early story in Batman where he is talking to Nightwing. And, actually, Nightwing points out that he was training to be like Batman and Robin is basically like, hey, when I am done with this Robin gig, I'm done.

So I am not sure how true that really is.

[Ruthless_Pryde]

I thought after the death of Tim's father, they would be drawn closer together in the more traditional father-son dynamic, but now he lives in Bludhaven all of a sudden, which is weird.


ASfter the death of his father Timd did what I expected him to do, get away rom Gotham for a little while. Tim would not bond more with Bruce over it the way that Dick did. Dick was a younf kid when his parents died and did not have any exposure to the "real world" before it happened. Tim had yaers with his parent(s). He had time to get to know them and grow with them, not like Bruce or Dick did. Aside from that he was Robin, The Boy wonder for a time before his parents died. As Robin He had exposure to way more is his time than either BRuce or Dick did before the death of theirs parents. He has been equipped with a better coping mechanism then they had when it happned to them.


An mainly, I don't really feel that Tim see's Bruce as a father figure. A friend, a mentor, maybe even a role model of sorts, but not as a father. Heck, he doesn't even want to be Batman. He's happy being Robin.

That's why I would not see Tim as Bruce's son.

[Forefinger]

I like it when they work together sometimes, just like Nightwing and Batman, but I also like them all to have separate cases/adventures. Batman needs to be a dark and violent vigilante sometimes and it's hard to sell that image when you have a teenager in a bright costume around.

[Mister Intensity]

Remember when comics were fun?

Mister Intensity

[Charagon]

But it has been clearly established in a bunch of Tim Drake stories that Tim has no plans of ever being Batman. I read an early Teen Titan book that says this and he said it in an early story in Batman where he is talking to Nightwing. And, actually, Nightwing points out that he was training to be like Batman and Robin is basically like, hey, when I am done with this Robin gig, I'm done.

So I am not sure how true that really is.


How many teenagers do you know say "I want to be just like my dad!"

The reason Tim is so adament against eventually becoming Batman is because he knows that it's coming and it's going to be expected of him unless something drastic happens.

[Forsaken_One]

Remember when comics were fun?

Mister Intensity
No. How old are you?

:p

[metalhead_dave743]

I think Christian Bale said it best when he said "You really don't need him because Robin makes it campy and not dark."

[Buried Alien]

One idea that has been somewhat lost over the years is the original reason that Tim Drake wanted to become Robin: he wanted to be Batman's partner (for Batman's sake). He didn't want to be Batman; he just wanted to make sure Batman kept his head on straight.

Tim has come a long way since his early days...so much so that it's sometimes easy to forget how he got started in this gig as Robin in A LONELY PLACE OF DYING. In those early days, his motivation was that Batman and Robin should always be a team (an idea that threatened to die out after Dick Grayson left and Jason Todd died). Ironically, Tim's Robin and Batman have rarely worked as a team since KNIGHTFALL.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Mister Intensity]

No. How old are you?

:p

Old enough not to get burned by too many silly crossovers. Old enough to remember when Batman was a dark avenging hero with social skills and Nightwing was a very competent hero who didn't have a daddy complex. Old enough not to say "kewl," with each regurgitation of the same ground that was covered by the pervious two or three writers of a book.

Mister Intensity

[boy wonder]

Old enough not to get burned by too many silly crossovers. Old enough to remember when Batman was a dark avenging hero with social skills and Nightwing was a very competent hero who didn't have a daddy complex. Old enough not to say "kewl," with each regurgitation of the same ground that was covered by the pervious two or three writers of a book.

Mister Intensity
This post makes me happy and sad at the same time.

Poor Batman... poor Nightwing.

[The Xenos]

Old enough not to get burned by too many silly crossovers. Old enough to remember when Batman was a dark avenging hero with social skills and Nightwing was a very competent hero who didn't have a daddy complex. Old enough not to say "kewl," with each regurgitation of the same ground that was covered by the pervious two or three writers of a book.

Mister Intensity

Funny, I'm twenty three and I remember that. Well there were a few too many crossovers in my day , but damn if they're not ten times stupider and really streatching things now.

-Xenos