Granny Sues Over GTA.

[Typo Lad]

Buys a 17+ game for a 14 year old... (http://1010wins.com/topstories/local_story_208141827.html) and then wants to sue.

How about NOT BUYING A GAME MARKED "M" for your 14 year old, you stupid, stupid woman.

Sigh.

Even if retailors COULDN'T sell games to kids, ala Hillary the Carpetbagger's idea, stuff like this would still happen.

Did she even read the box?

[Puma]

it's a video game, it must be for children since they're the only ones who play such games

why spend the time reading the cover?

[Typo Lad]

I just did a little "sketch" about Granny buying GTA for little Timmy. A pity I can't do a voice recording of it.

"Hm... this is a game where you kill people, steal, maim and get points for it.

What a wonderful character building excercise.

It's a good thing there's no sex in it though. Sex is BAD."

[SteelTownr]

I just did a little "sketch" about Granny buying GTA for little Timmy. A pity I can't do a voice recording of it.

"Hm... this is a game where you kill people, steal, maim and get points for it.

What a wonderful character building excercise.

It's a good thing there's no sex in it though. Sex is BAD."


GTA has lots of sex in it too!

Mark B.

[Adem]

One time when I was in EB talking to a friend of mine who worked there a mother walked in with her 11 year old son. She wanted to buy GTA:Vice City I think it was one of the GTA games and my friend pointed out that it was a mature game and not for a 11 year old. She really started arguing with him and starting threatening him that she'd get him fired so he just sold it to her.

Ya some adults are just stupid and then when they find out what they did they don't want to look stupid so they say no one told them.

[Typo Lad]

One time when I was in EB talking to a friend of mine who worked there a mother walked in with her 11 year old son. She wanted to buy GTA:Vice City I think it was one of the GTA games and my friend pointed out that it was a mature game and not for a 11 year old. She really started arguing with him and starting threatening him that she'd get him fired so he just sold it to her.

See, he should have gotten it in writing. Something that she waives all right to sue.

[Rallura]

IT might well head to the point where if you buy a game like that for a 14 year old, you have to sign a piece of paper saying you were warned.

[Nitmo]

Sheesh! I remember the video store calling my parents asking if I could rent Motal Kombat! Of course, it was a mom and pop store, but still....

[JerrBear81]

Is it just me, or are people getting more stupid these days?

Seriously, M for 17 and above, 17 and above. Not below, above.

[StoneGold]

I remember I worked at a video store when the first GTA came out. Now granted, the original game was extremely primative compared to 3, and this was either in the very early days of the ESRB or just before, I can't remember. Anyways, I'd always make it a point to tell the parents renting the game for their kids exactly what the game was. Honestly, if they still wanted to rent the game, hey, that's there deal. I'm not there to stop them from being lousy parents. But I'm pretty sure I always got a thank you for telling them what was actually in the game.

[SteelTownr]

But I'm pretty sure I always got a thank you for telling them what was actually in the game.

Except from the kids who had their parents tricked into renting it until you had to come along!

Mark B.

[StoneGold]

Except from the kids who had their parents tricked into renting it until you had to come along!

Mark B.
Well yeah, but those little shits can go fuck themselves.

[Typo Lad]

Well yeah, but those little shits can go fuck themselves.

If they could do that, they wouldn't need a video game for entertainment, now would they?

[Ray R.]

Well yeah, but those little shits can go fuck themselves.


My sentiments exactly.



Personally, I couldn't care less if they had video games with gang-bangs in them as long as the label said "Adults Only."

I suppose I could cloister my kid in a bubble and hope and pray that no bad words hit her ears or that she doesn't see a "boobie." I'd rather just play it by ear, and try to be vigilant about what she sees, hears, and plays. But in the end, I guess I'm going to hope my value system instruction and parenting pays off, in the event I'm not available to be micro-managing every second of her life.

Give 'em the tools and let them figure out how to work them. Kids are smarter than they look.....

[Flawless P]

Buys a 17+ game for a 14 year old... (http://1010wins.com/topstories/local_story_208141827.html) and then wants to sue.

How about NOT BUYING A GAME MARKED "M" for your 14 year old, you stupid, stupid woman.

Sigh.

Even if retailors COULDN'T sell games to kids, ala Hillary the Carpetbagger's idea, stuff like this would still happen.

Did she even read the box?
He's 14 right? Makes him old enough in my book. Also.. Shouldn't the name have discouraged her in the first place.

[Typo Lad]

He's 14 right? Makes him old enough in my book.

That's besides the point.

Think of the rating as a warning label.

If you have a box of toothpicks, and it says "do not stick in eye" and you stick it in your eye... should you be able to sue the manufacturer?

Of course not.

She bought a game for someone below the recomended age. It was her desciscion to ignore the rating. She needs to take responsability for her action.

Also.. Shouldn't the name have discouraged her in the first place.

Agreed.

[K'Nort]

Does the box actually say Grand Theft Auto or just GTA?

[StoneGold]

You want to know the really stupid thing though? The difference between Mature and Adults Only? One year. Mature is 17 and up, Adults is 18 and up.

[Bouncing Boy]

One time when I was in EB talking to a friend of mine who worked there a mother walked in with her 11 year old son. She wanted to buy GTA:Vice City I think it was one of the GTA games and my friend pointed out that it was a mature game and not for a 11 year old. She really started arguing with him and starting threatening him that she'd get him fired so he just sold it to her.

Ya some adults are just stupid and then when they find out what they did they don't want to look stupid so they say no one told them.

I can beat that story. One particularly snowy day about a year and a half ago, the manager at Wal*Mart where I cashier asked me to work the electronics department because all the people in electronics had called out due to snow. I agreed to. It was pretty much a slow day because it was so snowy, but then a man came in with his FIVE YEAR OLD SON. He wanted a game for his son, who liked driving games. At first I suggested Spy Hunter which I had rented and had a boating level as well as driving levels, but I noticed that was T for Teen and the guy said, "Oh that's okay, he plays Grand Theft Auto." I ended up finding them a motor boat game that was rated E for Everyone because it made me feel better about it. Oh and I usually let someone know if a movie or Game is probably inappropriate for a kid if it's obvious that that's whom they're buying it for.

[Huh?]

I wonder if she would sue if she went to see the punisher with her grandson and found out it had violence and foul language in it even though it is based on a comic.

If she wouldn't sue in that situation, she shouldn't be able to sue now.

[Typo Lad]

"Oh that's okay, he plays Grand Theft Auto."

See, that's the opposite of okay.

I don't care how "mature' you think your kid is. That's just wrong.

[monkeysweat]

See, that's the opposite of okay.

I don't care how "mature' you think your kid is. That's just wrong.
It's not just the kid that's immature in that situation.

[StoneGold]

See, that's the opposite of okay.

I don't care how "mature' you think your kid is. That's just wrong.
Yeah, but what are you going to do, tell the dude he's a lousy father? That's gonna go over like gangbusters.

[Typo Lad]

It's not just the kid that's immature in that situation.

I'd go so far as to say the kid may well be more mature than the parent.

[Typo Lad]

Yeah, but what are you going to do, tell the dude he's a lousy father? That's gonna go over like gangbusters.

No, you do what BB did... steer him elsewhere.

You let the wife tell him he's a lousy father.

[StoneGold]

No, you do what BB did... steer him elsewhere.

You let the wife tell him he's a lousy father.
And you might be able to do that if your opinion is being asked of something. In the personal example I brought up earlier, where the game was just being brought up and I was pointing out the warning label, it isn't.

"I want to rent GTA for my 3 year old son."
"You know it has anal rape in it, right?"
"Ye, but it's OK, I want to rent it for him."
"How about Elmo's Dance Party?"
"I said I wanted to rent GTA."
"Wow, you're like Caligula's mother, aren't you?"
"Caligu-what? Are you saying I preform oral sex on my child?"



And so on and so forth.

[Typo Lad]

I'd just be impressed that she got that reference.

Oh wait, there was a movie... right.

Seriously though, this is why I'm PRO some kind of legal action behind the ratings themselves. SO retailers can say 'Sorry lady, but I can get fined if I sell this to you".

[Royal]

It'll stick.

Video Games aren't seen as artistic free speech. So there is a good chance some numb nuts will run the ball with it for election purposes & win.

[BlairH]

I work in a video games store. In the UK it is an OFFENCE to sell an 18 rated game to anyone below that age (stupid laws) basically you can get fined 6 thousand pounds and/or 7 months in prison. Basically all retailers in the UK go by the motto of "if it's more than PG* get ID" (*where "PG"=the rating known as "parental guidance")

It's a crap law but it still provides amusement. For instance, a young boy approached me with a copy of GTA: San An. I told him that I couldn't sell it to him as he obviously wasn't 18 and the cameras were watching me, and I'd go to jail if I sold it. His father came along and he's all huffy, puffy, threatening me to get fired, so I say to him "are you aware of the content of the game" and he says "no", so I retort with "orgianised crime, guns, prostitutes, mugging, gore, prostitutes, crime, carjacking, prostitutes and sex" He then takes his son to the side and WHACKS him right on his behind! And when I say "WHACK" I really mean a REALLY HUGE smack that almost sent him flying through the air.

[Flawless P]

Does the box actually say Grand Theft Auto or just GTA?

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000642FS.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Yah it does... This is the PC verion but it is similar to the Playstation 2/Xbox(damn them for making this game on the crap box.) Cover.

[Deathstroke]

And the the "stupidization" of America continues.

[Ray R.]

I'd just be impressed that she got that reference.

Oh wait, there was a movie... right.

Seriously though, this is why I'm PRO some kind of legal action behind the ratings themselves. SO retailers can say 'Sorry lady, but I can get fined if I sell this to you".


Hmmm.....not my area of speciality (as if I had one anyway....), but the warning label issue as it applies to negligence and liability is an interesting one.

As we've seen by the tobacco litigation and settlements, warning labels on products do not waive liability for the manufacturer of the product, if the product can still inflict harm. There have been warning labels on cigarettes for something like 30 years, but the tobacco companies were still successfully sued on the basis that knowledge of the harm or potential harm caused supercedes any warning label.

Warning labels are an affirmative defense to tort liability (think of the woman who spilled the McDonald's coffee in her lap) inasmuch as they provide fair notice of the proper use of the product or provide a defense against inadvertant misuse, but again, if the product is inherently harmful, then a warning label only provides so much legal protection.

Which brings us to warning labels about content, not a product. Video games, movies, music, etc. These industries self-police and agree on what threshhold constitutes a particular label ("M" for Mature, "PG-13", etc.). The warning labels are advisory guides, not restrictions on commerce. If an adult buys a "Teen" game and gives it to a kid, he chose to ignore the advisory or warning. There should be no legal ramifications for the retailer in any way whatsoever. In the long run, trying to assess blame for sale of content on retailers is a tough go. It'd be easier to sue the game designer, and even then you get into the most sticky problem of all - damages.

If little Johnny plays Grand Theft Auto - San Andreas and has bad dreams or needs psychological counseling, you've got a hell of a mountain to climb to show causation. There are so many external factors besides a video game, that again, direct causation is extremely difficult to prove. And to establish a claim, you need to plead with specificity as to the civil law that was broken, as well as some elements of causation, i.e., game = nightmares. And how do you determine damages? What is the monetary value of Johnny's mental health or slow decline into juvenile delinquency? You can't impute punitive damages without actual damages to treble.

Now if Johnny goes out and murders half the neighborhood, you've got plenty of damages, but an even higher threshhold to meet in terms of direct cause and effect. Maybe GTA: San Andreas was a "trigger" to homicidal tendencies, maybe 50 cent was, maybe "Jackass" was, who knows. Even if Johnny blames the game, the game was not responsible for the criminal behavior, Johnny was, and the fact remains, that if a million people play a game, and five go berserk, you can't make a correlative relationship between game and action stick, no matter what the age of the player.

Warning labels are done as a corporate public relations tool, not as a bar against lawsuits.

I guess we could bring in the community standards test, where content needs to be judged on whether it meets "community standards." If it doesn't, it can be banned or outlawed, like pornography or teaching evolution ("snicker"), but I doubt that would restrict commerce too much for video games or much of anything else. People like porn and they like violence, and they don't want someone else telling them what they can and cannot watch.....

[jessecuster]

What I don't get is that yes the game is mature content, but everyone is in an uproar for a HACK that only applies to the PC version... so why should the PS2 and XBOX versions have the AO also ?

[borateen]

What I don't get is that yes the game is mature content, but everyone is in an uproar for a HACK that only applies to the PC version... so why should the PS2 and XBOX versions have the AO also ?

I think this quote from the article settles that argument:

Take Two Interactive initially said the scenes were not part of the retail version of the game but later admitted they were.

[jessecuster]

I think this quote from the article settles that argument:

But all versions or just the pc version ?

[Ray R.]

But all versions or just the pc version ?


I thought it was just the PC version, myself.

[StoneGold]

I'd just be impressed that she got that reference.

Oh wait, there was a movie... right.

Seriously though, this is why I'm PRO some kind of legal action behind the ratings themselves. SO retailers can say 'Sorry lady, but I can get fined if I sell this to you".
Here's the thing: because it's self regulated, there is no way to really make it illegal based on the ratings systems. That was the whole point of self-regulation. Personally, I'm all for better enforcement.But of what exactly is the problem.

[StoneGold]

What I don't get is that yes the game is mature content, but everyone is in an uproar for a HACK that only applies to the PC version... so why should the PS2 and XBOX versions have the AO also ?
I believe they are accessible via Gamesharks and the like.

[Devon C.]

Buys a 17+ game for a 14 year old... (http://1010wins.com/topstories/local_story_208141827.html) and then wants to sue.

How about NOT BUYING A GAME MARKED "M" for your 14 year old, you stupid, stupid woman.

Sigh.

Even if retailors COULDN'T sell games to kids, ala Hillary the Carpetbagger's idea, stuff like this would still happen.

Did she even read the box?
*Sigh* Even though it was a foolish mistake, it is understandable. Why? Simple.

ESRB ratings are practically ignored by the average non gamer adult. Not due to neglect, but ignorance. They know nothing of what those "little bitty letters" mean. Children should teach them, but they do not, possibly for fear of their parents never resolving to buy the game after knowing the content.

[StoneGold]

He's 14 right? Makes him old enough in my book.
You don't write the books though.


Thing is, most game stores, and that includes most stores that sell games, have all kinds of signage explaining the ratings systems. Signs, pamphlets and such. Usually right at the purchase counter.

What this really comes down to is willful consumer ignorance. The change in age ratings made it from 17 and over to 18 and over. The kid was still too young either way, so the new AO rating shouldn't even come into effect. Maybe she could claim it if the kid was 17, but not at 14.

[DarkBlade]

According to Tadhg, the biggest difference between a rating of M vs AO, is that many stores will not carry the Adults Only rating. Particularly ones like Target, Walmart, I think he said Media Play... hits their sales really hard.

[StoneGold]

According to Tadhg, the biggest difference between a rating of M vs AO, is that many stores will not carry the Adults Only rating. Particularly ones like Target, Walmart, I think he said Media Play... hits their sales really hard.
Basically. Although the bulk of GTA's sales have probably already been made.

[phoenixrising]

Yes, the name alone printed on the box should have been a clue....now we all have to suffer because some parents are just too stupid to have children. Did they not see the commercials? Did they look at the pictures on the box? Of course, just because some stores won't carry it doesn't mean we GTA fans won't still buy it. Their loss, I say.

Of course, I find it particularly amusing that people got all upset over the SEX in it...you know, as opposed to the horrific (read: wonderful) violence. I mena, you get rewarded for kiling people! Shouldn't that bother people more than a mere boob shot?

[StoneGold]

Shouldn't that bother people more than a mere boob shot?
Actually, there was no boob shot. It was simulated sex with all their clothes on.

[raoulduke]

Basically. Although the bulk of GTA's sales have probably already been made.

Not to mention that even if it was just in video game stores people will go out and buy it. It's friggin' GTA, how can you not?

[Nitmo]

Exactly, p-r. The grandma is suing over the sexual hack, not the violence.

Is her mindset "Boys will be boys, but shouldn't do the naughty with girls?"

[Flawless P]

Not to mention that even if it was just in video game stores people will go out and buy it. It's friggin' GTA, how can you not?
tis' True the game kicks major ass and lets me get out a little bit of frustration by taking it out on fictional charaters rather than blowing up at people.

[StoneGold]

tis' True the game kicks major ass and lets me get out a little bit of frustration by taking it out on fictional charaters rather than blowing up at people.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's generally accepted to be a fallacy.

[Pól Rua]

People should learn to take responsibility for THEIR OWN ACTIONS.
I'm sick and tired of people for whom free will and freedom of choice is such a burden that they deliberately ask... BEG even for their free will to be taken away from them.
"Why won't the law, or the government, or religion, or philosophy, or political affiliation make all the HARD decisions for me? O why O why won't SOMEONE take my brain away?"

Here's an idea.

Take responsibility for your own actions. Be a human being.
If you mess up, cop it sweet.
I'm not about to lose my freedom of speech, thought and action because someone else has decided it's too much of a responsibility for them.

scumbags.