Comics and the Internet

[badMike]

Interesting notes on comics and the web in this week's PD. I think there's a larger problem and possibly an easier solution to combining both for better comic sales.

First of all, buying individual comics in stores is starting to become a real pain in the ass to me. I never know when what I want is coming out anymore and I don't buy enough to want to have to bother asking a store if they do pull-lists.

Both Warren and Steven both seem to be wondering if creating better interactive Internet "communities" would lead to better sales. I don't think so because buying the actual comics, as I said, is a real pain in the ass. I mean, I almost missed out on Steven's CSI #4 because I couldn't get to a comic shop for a few weeks to get it. I may read something on the net that sounds interesting to me, but by the time I get to a store who knows if it'll even be there.

The solution: If I were a smart storeowner, I'd keep better track of my inventory electronically, post what I have and what I'm going to get on the Internet and set up what's being called a "Web 2.0" website these days. For example, say as a storeowner I know Steven's first CSI comic book is coming out, so I input it in my electronic inventory database with all relevant info: Creator, publisher, etc.

I then post it on my website and "tag" it with that same relevant info, then I allow users to create profiles and store "tags" of comic terms they're interested in. Users are also able to set up RSS feeds of their tags. So, when Steven's book comes out, that information will be sent out to all users who have an RSS subscription to the tag "Steven Grant." Users can then go to my store's website, buy the book online with their credit or debit card, then can either choose to have it shipped immediately or hold it until the mini-series is complete. Users can also have the ability to have their books shipped or pick them up in my store.

And if I was a creator, I'd set up RSS feeds of posts of what my new comics are, set up a zip code finder of comic stores in the area of my readers and direct them to shops that have the business model I outlined above.

That's the problem today--there's no connection between reading about a comic on the web and then actually buying the damn thing.

[WatsonGlenn]

The Internet will kill comics for two reasons.

One, meeting the creators online is too often a huge disapointment. I won't buy Byrne stuff any more no matter what he does and I avoid PAD stuff just because I don't like them.

Two, and this is a much more important reason. Anyone can now download every comic made about two days after it comes to the shops FOR FREE!

I know this ability has not hurt movies or the music industry but comics already sell poorly. The avaliabity of comics on the net is the final nail IMO.

[badMike]

Anyone can now download every comic made about two days after it comes to the shops FOR FREE!Where can I do that?

[Steven Grant]

If you're going to swap this information, do it via e-mail, not here.

[WatsonGlenn]

If you're going to swap this information, do it via e-mail, not here.

Mr Grant is right. It would not be fair to do that here. Suffice it to say it does exist.

[badMike]

Mr Grant is right. It would not be fair to do that here. Suffice it to say it does exist.I asked not because I wanted to do it, but I didn't believe it existed. I didn't think ahead that if it had it wouldn't be fair to have that info out there.

[Steven Grant]

It exists, though not quite to the level Watson suggests. Most comics are never "translated" because it takes a lot of time to do. Up-and-downloading on high speed connections are the quick part of it. It's not killing comics, though, any more than libraries killed novels. Most people don't seem to enjoy reading standard comics formats on screen.

[WatsonGlenn]

It exists, though not quite to the level Watson suggests. Most comics are never "translated" because it takes a lot of time to do. Up-and-downloading on high speed connections are the quick part of it. It's not killing comics, though, any more than libraries killed novels. Most people don't seem to enjoy reading standard comics formats on screen.


You might be right about "most" comics. I suppose there are hundreds put out that I never even see at my LCS, but I guarantee you every Marvel and DC comic is avalable within days of publication and most of the big independants.

You're right about it not killing comics, yet, but its coming, IMO

Of course its nicer to read the paper version. It also nicer to save 20 bucks a week.

[dancj]

I think the internet is more likely to save comics than kill them. New talented creators are making names for themselves through webcomics, and people independently producing these web comics are able to a much more diverse range of stuff than the very small number of genres that dominates 95% of the market at the moment.

Dan

[bartl]

One, meeting the creators online is too often a huge disapointment. I won't buy Byrne stuff any more no matter what he does and I avoid PAD stuff just because I don't like them.
Strangely enough, quite the opposite happened with me. I had dropped reading comics, but back in the late 80's, I met Steve Gerber online, and started buying his stuff. Soon after, I met Grant, and started reading HIS stuff, as well, in addition to a host of other comic writers online (and I started buying Hulk largely because of more pleasant experiences with Peter David than yours). I was even somewhat embarassed that, after some strong criticism of Gerry Conway's writing, he wrote to me, and was incredibly nice about it. I would never have even looked at Badlands, Enemy, or Edge without my contacts with Grant.

[WatsonGlenn]

I think the internet is more likely to save comics than kill them. New talented creators are making names for themselves through webcomics, and people independently producing these web comics are able to a much more diverse range of stuff than the very small number of genres that dominates 95% of the market at the moment.

Dan

Thats true. I should have said the Internet will kill paper comics.

[Steven Grant]

It's true that most people who work in comics really aren't self-obsessed dicks...

[bartl]

I asked not because I wanted to do it, but I didn't believe it existed. I didn't think ahead that if it had it wouldn't be fair to have that info out there.
It is, of course, illegal, and very harmful to the comics industry. However, while it's not quite as trivial as music piracy, one can see how people would scan and upload comics to pirate sites, especially based in countries where copyrights are not recognized.

On the other hand, there is something which, in software, is called the "abandonware" market, which is also quite illegal, but is not as harmful. In software, this is taking programs that have been out of production for a number of years and are likely to stay out of production, are considered to be obsolete by current standards, but are still every bit as useful (or, in the case of games, fun) as they were when they were published.

In a number of cases, companies have legalized abandonware by granting permission to use and copy it for free (like the MS/DOS version Lotus 1-2-3, and a lot of the Infocom games). The popularity of abandonware has led to re-issuing a bunch of games as sealed devices going for $10-$30 that contain a bunch of games and attach to your television (which, of course, makes them no longer abandonware).

In comics, there are a number of sites where you can download complete or near-complete old comics (generally Golden Age from minor publishers) whose chance of being reprinted are next to nil; the current holders of the copyrights are using a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude, where if you ask permission, they will say "no", but they will look the other way if you don't ask them (well, in addition, these tend to be so old and forgotten that the current holders of the copyrights may not even know that they ARE the holders).

And, for those who wish to get into an earlier discussion, if you trade a physical comic with somebody, you no longer have the original. But if you make a copy and give the copy to someone, then both you and the other person have a copy, and the producers of the comic only got paid for one copy.

[bartl]

It exists, though not quite to the level Watson suggests. Most comics are never "translated" because it takes a lot of time to do. Up-and-downloading on high speed connections are the quick part of it. It's not killing comics, though, any more than libraries killed novels. Most people don't seem to enjoy reading standard comics formats on screen.
On the other hand, graphic novels are increasingly available from libraries, notably now that you have library systems with electronic look-up and interlibrary loan (the use of which should start growing as more and more people become aware of it).

[WatsonGlenn]

I think creaters are taking a chance when they put themselves out there. Some people are not going to like them and that can be bad for business. Look at the Dixie Chicks. And I think Tom Cruise did himself no favors with his recent tirade. For a long time I have refused to see his movies due to his anti-Americanism. I won't put money in Jane Fonda's pocket either. I don't think I am alone in this.

John Byrne's comment's over the years have not helped his sales. I know Ellis has pissed off a few people too. I don't see that being good for buisiness.

Maybe controversy sells but the Internet can get very personal.

[badMike]

On the other hand, graphic novels are increasingly available from libraries, notably now that you have library systems with electronic look-up and interlibrary loan (the use of which should start growing as more and more people become aware of it).The majority of my comic reading these days are GN collections I get out of the library. The one by my house has a pretty good couple of shelves, tho' not complete, which is irritating from a collector's mentality (which I have).

[MichaelNetzer]

Apparently, the controversy behind - and popularity of - a creator aren't, on their own, mitigating factors to comics sales. The problem Steven points to is the ravenous and deceptive manner with which the big publishers have killed the comcs market, content with their finacial conquests in licencing and merchandising, spawned in Hollywood. They've brought about this sad situation by cutting off comics from the general market back in the 80's and propping the monopolistic distribution system now in place.

I believe that this is comfortable for the big publishers because they can maintain the creators' community at bay while pimping their work to Hollywood. Aside from a few exceptions, the creator's community in comics publishing is psychologically disadvantaged by the demise of the comic book form, and continues to sell itself cheap to the publishers because "comics aren't selling".

The bastards, steering the ship, appear to have done this intentfully, in order to shut down renewed claims, such as those of the Siegel, Shuster and Kirby estates (among many others), to a piece of the enoumous profits made from their creations.

It was a wonderful article, Steven. I've written a few words about it at www.flamingsword.biz

[Dennis]

i don't think the internet sells comics either. so why do it? ego? to meet girls?

[MichaelNetzer]

i don't think the internet sells comics either. so why do it? ego? to meet girls?

That's two good reasons for a start. But I can think of others.

Like the same reason we like to go yak it up in a bar, maybe.

[Michael P]

I think creaters are taking a chance when they put themselves out there. Some people are not going to like them and that can be bad for business. Look at the Dixie Chicks. And I think Tom Cruise did himself no favors with his recent tirade. For a long time I have refused to see his movies due to his anti-Americanism. I won't put money in Jane Fonda's pocket either. I don't think I am alone in this.

John Byrne's comment's over the years have not helped his sales. I know Ellis has pissed off a few people too. I don't see that being good for buisiness.

Maybe controversy sells but the Internet can get very personal.
And yet, none of those people are starving in the streets.

[MichaelNetzer]

And yet, none of those people are starving in the streets.

Exactly the reason to take advantage of the web to say our piece.

Dirty Pool is brilliantly worded and had me in stitches. No better way to be in perpetual disapproval of one's presence in this world.

[dancj]

Thats true. I should have said the Internet will kill paper comics.

Actually I was talking about paper comics. I think the internet will provide people with samplers for paper comics and new creators who think outside the normal box. Those are both things that will help paper comics

[Inkthinker]

Seems relevant (http://www.indignantonline.com/dojo/149/v.jsp?p=/comics-ecommerce/index).

Still reading it, myself.

[bartl]

Seems relevant (http://www.indignantonline.com/dojo/149/v.jsp?p=/comics-ecommerce/index).

Still reading it, myself.
There is one major problem which, if solved, could open up major new markets. That is the problem of "micropayments" (mentioned in the referred to article).

For those who are not involved in Internet marketing, credit card processing companies typically, if you have a decent credit rating, charge about 2 1/2% of the total (not bad), plus anywhere from 15 cents to 35 cents per transaction. That last can be a killer in selling downloadables for 1 or 2 bucks each, and, for transactions of 50 cents or less, you're doing slave labor for the processor.

I expect that a megabroker, such as Amazon, will eventually come up with house accounts, where the buyer pays in advance or has a line of credit, and they do all the processing internally.

[bartl]

Duplicate Post deleted.

[badMike]

I expect that a megabroker, such as Amazon, will eventually come up with house accounts, where the buyer pays in advance or has a line of credit, and they do all the processing internally.Amazon already sort of does that. Sites can set up a "TipJar," which can be used as micropayments as low as $1, like this one:

http://www.comicsworthreading.com/

A couple sites have PayPal TipJars, mainly Mark Evanier's blog and Tony Isabella's column.

Other sites can set up micropayments, but if users wish to make them they have to sign up an account. One is http://www.bitpass.com, which Scott McCloud uses.

An overview of micropayments can be found at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropayment

The term "micropayments" has also been used in this fashion: Say I'm a webcomic "publising" site who will then pay my creators per user click (e.g. 10 cents per user click), but I won't pay the creators until they reach a certain number of clicks, like 50, so I'll pay out every 5 bucks.

[fumetti]

While credit card use is expanding (even high school kids are carrying them now), I think any comics strategy that relies on them is a dead end.

Cheap and easy to get, that's why the first comic generation got started. Got to get'em while they're young and impressionable. Waiting until they've already developed their fiction habits is too late. Don't let'em grow up on TV and DVDs, and then expect them to fall in love with comics (and their hefty monthly fee).

And for the record, I hate trying to read comics via computer screen. Ugh. It's as bad as those 90s comics with their terrible scans and uglied-up ("digitized") line quality. Blech.

[fumetti]

Byrne's big mouth didn't turn me off nearly as much as his current work has done. Everything since Next Men (except for X-Men The Hidden Years) has been dull, dull, dull. His art's still good, tho.

Same with PAD. I don't care about the Hulk, so wasn't as thrilled as others by his run. And I hated the "Hook-uaman" idea, so didn't bother following that either. He might be annoyingly opinionated, but that's not why I veer from his work.

Conversely, I like Kevin Smith but that didn't draw me to his Daredevil run. (Missed his Green Arrow too). I even like Marilyn Manson in interviews, but never listen to his ...music.

Creator's personalities don't much factor into my purchasing habits.

[WatsonGlenn]

I hate trying to read comics via computer screen. Ugh. It's as bad as those 90s comics with their terrible scans and uglied-up ("digitized") line quality. Blech.


There is a program called, CDisplay Comic Reader utility - version 1.7.4.6, that makes reading comics on a computer very easy and its free too.

[fumetti]

There is a program called, CDisplay Comic Reader utility - version 1.7.4.6, that makes reading comics on a computer very easy and its free too.

Got it. Danke!

[roguespirit]

You might be right about "most" comics. I suppose there are hundreds put out that I never even see at my LCS, but I guarantee you every Marvel and DC comic is avalable within days of publication and most of the big independants.

You're right about it not killing comics, yet, but its coming, IMO

Of course its nicer to read the paper version. It also nicer to save 20 bucks a week.

While some abuse the downloading of comics, most people in the sharing community fervently believe that if you appreciate the comic you should buy it.

Personally I download comics that I wouldn't neccesarily buy but have an interest in. Because of this I have bought all the Hellboy, Astro city, sin city, goon, trades to name but few. I've also started collecting Invincible, Walking dead, ExMachina and a few others.

My purchase of these was entirely due to me reading them after downloading and deciding they were good enough to want to hold in my hand and put on my shelves.

For me at least downloading has proved to be a financial boost to the creators

[WatsonGlenn]

most people in the sharing community fervently believe that if you appreciate the comic you should buy it.

I doubt it. I know I have not bought a record in years.

[Dennis]

I doubt it. I know I have not bought a record in years.

which p2p do you use? a PM would be much obliged.

[Steven Grant]

Okay, I'm shutting this thread down because I don't have the time to keep checking in to make sure people aren't posting the locations of comics bootlegging sites, since the question came up again. Any discussions of that nature can be handled quite nicely in email...