When did the DC Universe first begin to turn dark?

[Buried Alien]

Of the major comic book companies that predominantly publish superhero comics, DC has long been identified as the "lighter", "more fun" publisher...one whose mission is to awe with wonder and adventure rather than shock with gritty realism. That's changed in recent decades, of course. The DC Universe of today doesn't resemble SUPERFRIENDS very much (for better or worse), and INFINITE CRISIS promises to darken things yet another notch.

So when was the moment that the DCU first embarked on this dark path?



Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[JolietJake]

For the sake of argument of the thread, I'd place it at The Dark Knight Returns in 1986 when DC first tried to tap into "Grim 'n Gritty"!

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Although he's a bit overzealous at times, I think Alex Ross was right about DC going a little overboard during the late seventies when they tried to darken up some of their bright and shiny heroes.

Within a span of a couple years, Barry Allen had becomm a widower and killed his wife's murderer, and Aquaman's baby son was murdered by some racist in a costume.

As a result, Barry Allen never really recovered and ended up getting replaced by Wally West. And Aquaman became more and more a Namor clone.

[Expletive Deleted]

The current trend? IDENTITY CRISIS. I don't think it's an unbroken line. You get periods of grim-'n-gritty, and then you get periods of bright-'n-shiny. To varying degrees of course. The trend we're in the middle of right now kicked off with IDC.

Overall? As in the first "dark" thing ever to happen in the DCU? Well, I can't think of anything earlier than 1968, so I guess I'll just go with that.

[Buried Alien]

The current trend? IDENTITY CRISIS. I don't think it's an unbroken line. You get periods of grim-'n-gritty, and then you get periods of bright-'n-shiny.

True. But I don't think the DCU has had a sustained "bright 'n shiny" period since at least the first half of the 1970s (if that). Maybe the Silver Age was the last sustained "bright 'n shiny" period.



Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Expletive Deleted]

I suppose it's in how you define it.

Personally, I thought the mid/late-'90s through the early part of this decade was pretty decently on the bright-'n-shiny side. Morrison on JLA, Waid on FLASH (and later JLA), the "Archie Legion," and that sort of thing.

[Eyeswithoutaface]

I don't know about when DC officially started down the dark path, but "Batman: A Death in the Family", was the real turning point in my mind. Maybe it's the combination of seeing a bloodied Robin with his mouth gaping wide, and reading the words "death" and "family" together. I don't think you even have to know anything about comics to get how dark a concept that is.

[Buried Alien]

I can't believe I forgot to include the death of Robin (Jason Todd) in the poll. If there's any moment when the DCU really fell into darkness, it was when Robin (previously its token of light) was violently murdered (by decree of the readers, no less).





Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive! )

[Grimm24]

I think it was the death of Iris Allen that really started the whole dark traits for DC because it really inspired a lot of other dark events like the death of Jason Todd and how the Joker got off Scott free because of how Proffeser Zoom got off a similar way

Of course I think it is much more personal for the case of Iris Allen because Barry lost his wife to a madman and he was walking off scott free, which I think justified Zoom's death

[B. Herren]

DC has always played the darker theme to punch up a character a bit, occasionally killing a loved one here or there to make a hero more angsty. I don't think it's so black-and-white though when it started. (Sorry if this goes on for a bit)

The 70s saw a more realistic tone start with the Green Arrow & Green Lantern tackling hard social issues in Hard Travelling Heroes. Real world themes were put into play and eventually somehow that led to Speedy shooting smack. A little later in the mid to late 70s the theme continued and you had tragedies occur like the death of Aquaman's son and the murder of Iris Allen.

That trend has continued through today whenever a character needs some sort of "turning point". The death of Supergirl, Aquagirl, Barry Allen, Jason Todd, Sue Dibny, Tim Drake's Dad, Wally's kids, etc. Then there are shock events of mass destruction like the end of Coast City, Gotham's earthquake, nuking Kansas & Montevideo, and sinking Sub Diego. Then there are direct status shake-ups for main characters like the deaths and resurrections of Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Green Arrow, and Donna Troy, the breaking of Batman's back, the crippling of Batgirl, the loss of Aquaman's hand, Wally West's occasionally absorption into the Speed Force, and so on.

And each time a character is put through one of these events they come out a little more muddled, but I can't really say these have contributed to the overall darkening of DC. They are really common themes in long-term serial storytelling. Soap operas use similar tricks. I know the death/resurrection thing was used at least as far back as Sherlock Holmes when Doyle left the character dead for about a decade.

The real kick-off I think was when Alan Moore began to blend the lines of morality, graying the area between right and wrong, and making heroes truly begin to doubt their own actions in Watchmen -coupled with Marvel's Squadron Supreme of that same time period. The dark tones have been slowly seeping in for awhile now as echoed in other books like Kingdom Come and even on this season of the JUSTICE LEAGUE cartoon. Recently though DC seems to have taken a hard left with Identity Crisis.

So my answer is Watchmen. And Identity Crisis. :D

[Apathy Boy]

On the Depress-O-Metre, it's hard to top the murder of Aquaman's infant son.

But I think the trend started with the "Speedy is a heroin junkie" storyline from GREEN LANTERN/GREEN ARROW. Not just because a boy-sidekick-turned-addict smacks of "loss of innocence," but because DC seemed so intent on advertising this as a "loss of innocence" story through one of the most sensationalistic and memorable covers of all-time.

http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/1448/200/1448_2_085.jpg

Actually, I believe there was a major push to IDENTITY CRISIS-ize the entire DCU in the early '70s. In addition to GREEN LANTERN/GREEN ARROW, you had the death of Steve Trevor in WONDER WOMAN, the Denny O'Neil Superman revamp and the end of the Adam West-era Batman.

Interesting that so many people think that the DCU was always a uniformly shiny, happy place.

[Grimm24]

More or less the superhero's that made it DC dark have been Flash, Batman, Green Arrow and Green Lantern

[B. Herren]

Ah little Speedy, why did you DO IT?!

[Apathy Boy]

Ah little Speedy, why did you DO IT?!Y'know, I always wondered why Roy became addicted to smack instead of speed.

[Headhunter]

Dark Knight Returns, no doubt; it would have been Death/Return of Superman for mainstream fans who didn't read DKR, though.

[mgs]

CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, 1985

individual storylines lead to more character development, and internal monologue.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Ah little Speedy, why did you DO IT?!

Because his adoptive dad was out banging Black Canary and beating up dirty hippies and corrupt cops across the galaxy with Green Lantern while he was stuck in the Teen Titans popping zits and mooning over Wonder Girl, who was just a tease in those star-spangled granny panties.

[Calybos]

The Dark Knight Returns did something new and different, and handled it fairly well.

A lot of hacks then tried to copy it, ineffectually, to get the same effect. They read it and Watchmen and concluded, "The key is to show lots of blood, insanity, and pain."

Consequently, comics began to suck, and suck hard, for an agonizing 5-10 years. And even today, there are those who think "sophistication" is the same thing as "betrayal, antiheroes, and lots of blood. Darker is better. It's more realistic."

Miller did a LOT of unwitting damage, the poor guy.

[Shellhead]

CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, 1985

individual storylines lead to more character development, and internal monologue.

Uh, no. You're going to have to go back to the Golden Age, in the early 40's, and blame All-Star Comics for the first appearance of the Justice Society of America. Although, come to think of it, there was more character development at DC after the Crisis than before it, especially in the Golden Age and the Silver Age.

[tricksterpup]

I would have to place it at the birth of Dark knight Returns, the Watchmen, Green Arrow: Long Bow hunters. I think due to these books popularity among the readers at time, and all media hype got the ball rolling. Then we had many Independents that became popular as well, Grendel, Elementals, American Flagg, and Jon Sable Freelance to name a few. These books were geared for the older reader and as all popularity trends go, flooded over to DC and Marvel.
But as many professionals and comic historians have stated, Dark Knight Returns gave comics that darker edge push that we, the children of the 80's, were craven for. The sad part, the 90's were dark but we didn't have the quality as many of the 80's books had.

[Smarty Jones]

The one thing that defines a book is usually the art, which sets the visual tone of the writer's intent. Books like "A Death in the Family" failed to capture the dark tone that conveyed that something sinister was going on; it was standard Jim Aparo art, which did not lend itself to the dark shadows, intense and distorted faces and ominous presentation I find in such moments.

Of the ones on the poll, it would be "Identity Crisis." The distasteful manner in which The Justice League of America was depicted -- not to mention the retroactively converting Dr. Light into a rapist -- in events that had nothing to do with how Sue Dibny really left a bad taste in my mouth.

But the book I would nominate is Alan Moore's "Batman: The Killing Joke," in which we see the unofficial origin of The Joker. Combined with his gunshot wound that paralyzed Barbara Gordon (and later taking naked pictures of her) and holding a naked and chained Jim Gordon in the zoo, that book encapsulated how demented and dangerous The Joker really can be.

[protonik]

I think first you have to seperate relevant stories like Sppedy's smack from grim n gritty style of storyteling. A story like Speedy on smack is something that needs to be told while something like the Death of Robin is something that the series didn't necessarily need as the character could have been written out. When the Speedy story came out drug use was on the rise and Stan Lee had just done his drug story in Amazing and these issues really spoke to the relvance of a growing problem in society that comics needed to address to the then young audience that read them.

Stories like the death of Iris Allen also sing a different tune. These sorts of stories are a grey area in the whole grim n gritty approach. Learning to deal with death is a part of life and again, a younger audience was being addressed at the time. Using the idea that the death of Iris Allen was a grim n gritty story is like saying the miscarriage of Reed and Sue's second child was grim n gritty. It isn't neessarily. Its the context in which the story is told and did it have a relevance to it.

Now even relevant stories can be grim n gritty like DKR and Watchmen, but as far as Watchmen goes, I don't see this grim n ritty ideal. I see a realistic approach and that is that. It pulls no punches but there isn't a pervasive and sinister element to the story or art like Dark Knight Returns, the very definition of grim n gritty. DKR was almost a cartoon in its darkness.

Some posters seem to be thinking that character growth stories are gng when that isn't always true. I am not talking about the death of so and so stories but drug use revelations etc. These may be element of gng stories but like I said, they can be handled realistically without being gng. Certain events while considered dark and tragic, like Coast City, are hardly grounds to call something GNG. The Return of Superman was hardly a dark story filled with grim overtones. IT was a fun, lighthearted romp that just happened to include the destruction of Coast City as a major plot element for the Engine City aspect of the story. Sure it helped lead to Emerald Twilight but the overall effect in reading the story was more of a WOAH element than a man, that was painful and harsh. Same goes for a story like the original Crisis by Wolfman and Perez. It wasn't dark, it was slightly grim but it was still a superhero tale and a fun series that accomplished something.

Identity Crisis on the other hand, that series was a perfect example of Watchmen style storytelling. It had an emotional angle to it as well. It was good storytelling and many of the people who didn't like it was because it wasn't stock supervillain work. They wanted obvious revelations and instead got a very under the radar answer. It was brilliantly done. The events spanning out of it have been intelligent and well thought out and while the DCU is getting darker as the repercussions are felt I don't think it is permanent by any means. I think when the One Year Later stories kick in that the DCU will be a very different place, definitely affected by the Crises but it will have become a better, more structured universe, unlike the deconstruction of the MU that has been occuring in the last few years and its continuing lack of cohesion like House of M occuring after The Sentry in New Avengers etc. There is a darkening going on in the DCU but it seems to be elements of the story being told and therefore relevant as opposed to Extreme Justice style dark stories or similar events from the mid 90s at DC when they were Punisherizing all their classic characters.

Jason

[tcv]

My gut tells me it's earlier than the mid-80s, but the issues that come to mind have already been mentioned: Watchmen, DKR. I also recall that Green Arrow dealt with seriously dark issues (rape, for one) around that time, too.

Is the OP more wondering when the preponderence of titles became dark? I think any long-running publisher has tackled serious issues and then, perhaps, gone back to camp. But, perhaps, this is just more indicative of the times and what the audiences wants than what's going on with a particular universe. Movies used to be light-hearted musicals. Now many of them deal with serious issues. Many folks would say that this is because movies are now closer to reality.

[Core]

The distasteful manner in which The Justice League of America was depicted -- not to mention the retroactively converting Dr. Light into a rapist -- in events that had nothing to do with how Sue Dibny really left a bad taste in my mouth.


How did Sue Dibny leave a bad taste in your mouth? Distastefully? Is it the fact that the distasteful manner of the JLA's depiction weren't related to you tasting Sue Dibny that turned you off?

Man, you should get some kind of award for that sentence. ;)

[Kid Seven]

It's funny, I Actually went with Crisis on Infinite Earths. In thinking about it, I think that DC's restructuring of its universe and increasing focus on stories more 'relevant' and 'realistic' laid the map towards where we are now. Post-Crisis we got a Superman/Batman relationship much more testy in nature, we got de-powered heroes (to make them more 'believable'), and we got a more modern take and revision of classic tales.

[Sk8maven]

Crisis seems to be when DC first realized it could kill off characters and steamroller over stories at will, and the fans would not only not mind, they'd come whining and groveling for more.

But the seeds run far deeper, probably to or even past the "more realistic", "socially relevant" GL/GA run (which, interestingly, was a success with critics but a big flop with fans).

Maven

[Mark Spiridakis]

From the above list I will say the death of the Iris Allen character. But it all may have gotten underway in earnest when Aquaman's son was killed off.

[Cei-U!]

I'm going to answer "none of the above." I date it from the revolutionary decision to wrap up the Doom Patrol series in '68 by killing the title characters. Can't get much darker than that.

Cei-U!
I summon the different drum!