Sinister and Apocalpyse - What's the deal?

[DetourAndy]

I have been reading lots of X-Men lately, but don't really know my history too well. I am kind of confused by Mr. Sinister. I know he's sort of a mad scientist, but what are his real powers? What makes him so dangerous and evil? Can someone give me a detailed history of him? I just really don't know much about the character and what makes him so evil/powerful.

As for apocalypse, I know his main powers are to control the molecular structure of his body, but at the same time, is that it? What makes him so evil/powerful. Is he some demi-god like Colossus? What's his backstory?

I'm sure these answers will have to be quite lengthy, but I would appreciated any help (or a good website link that answers the same question if you're too lazy)

Cheers:D

Andy

[Dizzy D]

I have been reading lots of X-Men lately, but don't really know my history too well. I am kind of confused by Mr. Sinister. I know he's sort of a mad scientist, but what are his real powers? What makes him so dangerous and evil? Can someone give me a detailed history of him? I just really don't know much about the character and what makes him so evil/powerful.

Sinister's powers have always been ill-defined, but first and foremost he is a powerful shapeshifter that is nearly impossible to kill or even hurt. That's not why he is so dangerous though, because he hardly ever does anything himself. Most of his evil deeds are done by the Marauders, a band of mercenaries and sometimes he employs the Nasty Boys, a band of superpowered thugs.
The worst he probably has done was to order the Marauders to kill all the Morlocks, a group of mutant outcasts living in tunnels under New York. While the Marauders received heavy opposition from several superheroes, they nearly succeeded in killing of all the Morlocks ( a few dozen survived) and even seriously injured several of the superheroes themselves (Kitty Pryde, Colossus, Nightcrawler and Angel.)
He was also involved with Weapon X's Neverland, a concentration camp for mutants which he used as a way to get test-subjects (he did similar things during WWII where he was disguised as a Nazi scientist), another colony of superhuman beings, the Neo, were nearly wiped out as a side-effect of one of Sinister's experiments.

Sinister is a brilliant geneticist and a contemporary of Charles Darwin (they knew each other personally). Apocalypse offered Sinister power and the opportunity to do his experiments. After the death of his wife, Sinister accepted and was given his powers by Apocalypse with the added request that Apocalypse made him unable to feel guilt or regret.

This inability to feel any sort of guilt or regret resulted in a completely uncaring for human feelings and life, combine this with his superhuman powers (which he seems to upgrade himself from time to time with his knowledge of genetics), a possibly infinite army of Marauder-clones and his tendency to keep a very low profile (he has labs all over the world, dozens of cover-identities and seems to avoid most conflict with superheroes) and you can see why he is very dangerous.

As for apocalypse, I know his main powers are to control the molecular structure of his body, but at the same time, is that it? What makes him so evil/powerful. Is he some demi-god like Colossus? What's his backstory?

Apocalypse is very old (several millenia) and has a great deal of personal power (the control over his molecules is but one, but it is a very dangerous ability.) He also has access to very advanced technology, probably the most advanced technology on Earth in fact.. Luckily his understanding of said technology is but limited. But the thing he seems to do best is to make others more dangerous: he has awoken Exodus' powers, gave Moses Magnum and Sinister his powers and enhanced Angel, Hulk, Caliban and Wolverine (to name just a few of many) to be far more dangerous than they were.

Originally Apocalypse was interested in conflict: he felt that through war and fighting, mutants and humans would either die or become stronger and that he could so "improve" the human/mutant race. Later on he was retconned into being a world-conqueror who was interested in personal power and survival.

His most evil deeds include Cable's future where he has conquered the world: humans are almost wiped out and mutants are fighting each other. The same thing has happened in an alternate reality, the Age of Apocalypse.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Sinister used to work for Apocalypse. He's big on genetics, and a concept of creating the perfect mutant gene pool. He's all very complicated, but a good place to start with Mr S would be his appearances leading up to and his role within the Inferno storyline. You can pick up the latter as Trade Paperback - although depending on how much you know about Madelyn Pryor, Cyclops' move to the original X-Factor and his son Nathan Christopher Summers, you may get a bit confused. Sinister is central to quite a lot of this.

As for Apocalypse? Well, possibly the first mutant (It depends on who you talk to) although his longevity and powers are at least partly sustained by his costume. His earliest appearances were not in Uncanny X-Men but in the original X-Factor run, which also included Warren's transformation into Archangel, Apocalypse's Hourseman of Death. It's a wee bit cheesey by today's standards maybe, but a good place to get a feel for how he began.

The Age of Apocalypse stories may be his largest storyline, but it is hard to gain a true grasp of the Apocalypse from our time from this. It is after all an alternate timeline, and the rules of evrything are different. That said, once you've got a better grasp on X-Men continuity you should certainly make the effort to read this storyline.

[Hellion]

Another thing is, well, every time Sinster appears you know something big goes down. When I was a kid I was freakin' scared of him, his smile, ugh, I could imagine him laughing. Anyways, Pocy is now a pushover, and Sinster will rule the whole Marvel Universe soon enough. I don't know but I think he is making some plans right now, Sinster is my favorite villian.

[The Lucky One]

The thing is that Sinister doesn't actually want to rule the world. I agree that Poccy is a pushover (totally overrated and getting by on his rep), and that Sinister is a more formidable threat; but he's also a scientist. He likes staying behind the scenes and tinkering with things. He will even, when necessary, aid the good guys if they're seriously threatened. He just likes playing with genetics, and doesn't care who gets hurt as he does it. He's technically not evil, just completely, 100% amoral. Which actually makes him more dangerous, not less.

-D

[Mister Mets]

This is a related question, but I figured I'd add it here.

What are the best Apocalypse/ Mister Sinister stories? I'd prefer stories that either collected in trade paperbacks, or self-contained.

I've read the five Essential X-Men volumes, Essential Uncanny X-Men, the Ultimate books, Morrison's run, Whedon's run, and a few more scattered issues, but I'm really unfamiliar with these popular characters.

[Dussan]

This is a related question, but I figured I'd add it here.

What are the best Apocalypse/ Mister Sinister stories? I'd prefer stories that either collected in trade paperbacks, or self-contained.

I've read the five Essential X-Men volumes, Essential Uncanny X-Men, the Ultimate books, Morrison's run, Whedon's run, and a few more scattered issues, but I'm really unfamiliar with these popular characters.

NOthing where the two are actually related. THe Cyclops/Phoenix mini was where you got the scoop on Sinister.

But it's always been the after effects of Apocalypse that makes him so deadly. The future timelines where he gains power, Age of Apoc is a good read.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

I have been reading lots of X-Men lately, but don't really know my history too well. I am kind of confused by Mr. Sinister. I know he's sort of a mad scientist, but what are his real powers? What makes him so dangerous and evil? Can someone give me a detailed history of him? I just really don't know much about the character and what makes him so evil/powerful.

As for apocalypse, I know his main powers are to control the molecular structure of his body, but at the same time, is that it? What makes him so evil/powerful. Is he some demi-god like Colossus? What's his backstory?

I'm sure these answers will have to be quite lengthy, but I would appreciated any help (or a good website link that answers the same question if you're too lazy)

Cheers:D

Andy


I'm a big Sinister mark so maybe I can help with such questions.

A. His powers are as listed: Concussive blasts, mind control, super strength, regeneration, shape shifting, teleportation, rechannel energy, and is basically immortal. He also has a known an ability to adapt his powers to fit certain mutatnts' genetic structure.

B. What makes him dagnerous is that he's extremely intelligent and usually gets away with his manipulations. He has manipulated and incited situations for years for his own usages. Being a Nazi scientist in one instance while being the director for Scott's orphanage in another. He's always 5 steps ahead of the competition. Another reason why he's so underrated.

C. He comes from the Victoria, England era of the 19th century where he eventually lost his son and wife and turned to Apocalypse who made him into the creature you see today.

As for the best Sinister stories? Your gonna get several opinions on that one but my favorite was the Inferno story, X-Men '95 Annual, X-Man #18-19, and most recently Weapon X #14(a never ending deed of evil in this one).

[Atomic Mongoose]

Is he some demi-god like Colossus? What's his backstory?

Well if you read the Earth X series as canon (which it is not), then you'll see that it is revealed that Mr. Sinister and Colossus are one and the same.

[Tobias March]

Did anyone here actually read the Sinister origin mini a few years ago? It was referred to up above, turns out Essex knew Darwin and such. It was an interesting base for the character.

[The Lucky One]

Did anyone here actually read the Sinister origin mini a few years ago? It was referred to up above, turns out Essex knew Darwin and such. It was an interesting base for the character.

It was both referenced and expanded upon in this week's issue of X-Men: The End.
:)

-D

[DDM]

I'm a big Sinister mark so maybe I can help with such questions.

A. His powers are as listed: Concussive blasts, mind control, super strength, regeneration, shape shifting, teleportation, rechannel energy, and is basically immortal. He also has a known an ability to adapt his powers to fit certain mutatnts' genetic structure.

B. What makes him dagnerous is that he's extremely intelligent and usually gets away with his manipulations. He has manipulated and incited situations for years for his own usages. Being a Nazi scientist in one instance while being the director for Scott's orphanage in another. He's always 5 steps ahead of the competition. Another reason why he's so underrated.

C. He comes from the Victoria, England era of the 19th century where he eventually lost his son and wife and turned to Apocalypse who made him into the creature you see today.

As for the best Sinister stories? Your gonna get several opinions on that one but my favorite was the Inferno story, X-Men '95 Annual, X-Man #18-19, and most recently Weapon X #14(a never ending deed of evil in this one).


Sinister has some kind of psionic powers as shown in Uncanny X-Men #243 when he tried to destroy Jean's mind.

[DDM]

This is a related question, but I figured I'd add it here.

What are the best Apocalypse/ Mister Sinister stories? I'd prefer stories that either collected in trade paperbacks, or self-contained.

I've read the five Essential X-Men volumes, Essential Uncanny X-Men, the Ultimate books, Morrison's run, Whedon's run, and a few more scattered issues, but I'm really unfamiliar with these popular characters.

Mr. Sinister:

Uncanny X-Men #210-214, 219, 221 (first appearance)-222, 239-243, X-Factor #36-39, Classic X-Men #41-42, The Further Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix #1-4, X-Men: The End

Apocalypse:

X-Factor #1-4, 5 (shadow), 6 (first full appearance), 9-19, 24-26, 28, 33 (Alliance of Evil), 50 (Apocalypse vs Loki), 54-55 (Hellhound), X-Factor Annual #3 (Apocalypse vs the High Evolutionary)

[ocelotrevs]

Apocalyse turnt the genetist Nathaniel Essex into Mr Sinister, Apocalyse wanted too learn and understand more about the genetic progression of the mutant genome, and eventually manipulate it for his own ends. Sinister wanted too just do experiments or something like that. Sinister didn't want part of Apocalyses plans, so he imprisoned or escaped Apocalyse, so that he could study the mutant genetic structure and find a gene path that would produce a powerful enough being too destroy Apocalyse. The being would lead too Cable/ Nathaniel Dayspring, which was the product of the Summers/ Grey gene

Apocalypse is supposed too be the first mutant ever and was put in hibernation or something where he became a mutant^ 100 or something like that.

Sinister isn't really a badass villian he just does evil things, but it's mainly too futher his understanding of genetics, and usually operates behind the scenes

[DDM]

Apocalyse turnt the genetist Nathaniel Essex into Mr Sinister, Apocalyse wanted too learn and understand more about the genetic progression of the mutant genome, and eventually manipulate it for his own ends. Sinister wanted too just do experiments or something like that. Sinister didn't want part of Apocalyses plans, so he imprisoned or escaped Apocalyse, so that he could study the mutant genetic structure and find a gene path that would produce a powerful enough being too destroy Apocalyse. The being would lead too Cable/ Nathaniel Dayspring, which was the product of the Summers/ Grey gene

Apocalypse is supposed too be the first mutant ever and was put in hibernation or something where he became a mutant^ 100 or something like that.

Sinister isn't really a badass villian he just does evil things, but it's mainly too futher his understanding of genetics, and usually operates behind the scenes


Selene is older than Apocalypse. The Shadow King is older than either of them.

[Magneto_X]

Apocalyse turnt the genetist Nathaniel Essex into Mr Sinister, Apocalyse wanted too learn and understand more about the genetic progression of the mutant genome, and eventually manipulate it for his own ends. Sinister wanted too just do experiments or something like that. Sinister didn't want part of Apocalyses plans, so he imprisoned or escaped Apocalyse, so that he could study the mutant genetic structure and find a gene path that would produce a powerful enough being too destroy Apocalyse. The being would lead too Cable/ Nathaniel Dayspring, which was the product of the Summers/ Grey gene

Apocalypse is supposed too be the first mutant ever and was put in hibernation or something where he became a mutant^ 100 or something like that.

Sinister isn't really a badass villian he just does evil things, but it's mainly too futher his understanding of genetics, and usually operates behind the scenes

Sinister really should go after the Richards family for a bloodline to destroy Apoc. Reed & Sue's son, Franklin, is a virtual *god* unlike Cable.

[ocelotrevs]

confused posting

[ocelotrevs]

Sinister really should go after the Richards family for a bloodline to destroy Apoc. Reed & Sue's son, Franklin, is a virtual *god* unlike Cable.

He can't the Richards family's bloodline only got changed when they were radiated, and that is a relatively recent ever in the Marvel Universe. They would've been a non- event when he first started his research. He was only interested in mutant DNA as well, and Richards/ Storm bloodline is human

Selene is older than Apocalypse. The Shadow King is older than either of them.

Thanks for the heads up, my stuff was based on little things i'd picked up
Who is Selene?

[fishtaco]

For the whole scoop of Apocalypse, read

- The Twelve crossover
- X-Cutioners Song crossover
- All the X-Factor stuff that DDM mentioned plus X-Factor 66-68
- All the original AOA stories
- X-men: Search For Cyclops 1-4
- Askani 1-4
- Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix 1-4
- X-men: Rise of Apocalypse 1-4
- Uncanny X-men 335
- New X-men 116
- Classic X-men 25
- Cable -1,1,7-8,53
- Incredible Hulk 455-7
- Onslaught X-over
- Astonishing X-men (2nd Series) 1-3
- X-Force 37
- X-men: Phoenix 1-3
- Black Knight/Exodus

[jadegiant77]

Anybody else not suprised by Gambit being Mr. Sinister's son? I figured that one out years ago, especailly when he told Gambit he wanted him to head up the Mutant Massacre.

[The Lucky One]

Gambit didn't head up the Mutant Massacre; as the original story plainly showed, he wasn't there. For some reason, he's been fooled into thinking he was -- Sinister messing with his mind or something, for purposes unknown -- but he wasn't involved in the Massacre.

-D

[Dizzy D]

Anybody else not suprised by ....

If this is from a very recent issue and not speculation a spoiler-warning would be appreciated. You can edit your post, just use spoilertags <spoil> </spoil> but replace the <> with []

Like this

[DDM]

Thanks for the heads up, my stuff was based on little things i'd picked up
Who is Selene?

Selene first appeared in The New Mutants #9 as the Black Priestess on Nova Roma; she is the creator of the Cult of Fire which worships Selene as their goddess incarnate. The Cult of Fire in known worldwide. One of her high priests, a jeweler, Friedrich Von Rhom, invited Selene to join the Hellfire Club once she learned she could leave Nova Roma (for 2,000 years she could not leave the city). Selene joined the Hellfire Club in The New Mutants #22-23 & applied to become the Black Queen in Uncanny X-Men #189. Selene's age is dated by her rivalry with the demon sorcerer, Kulan Gath, who fought Conan & apparently, Selene, in the Hyborean Age. Selene is immune to Gath's master spell as shown in Uncanny X-Men #190-191. Selene is shown to be the Black Queen in Uncanny X-Men #207.

Selene is a mutant with the psionic ability to drain the lifeforce of any human. As a result, she can project the stolen lifeforce into inanimate objects or turn them to dust. Selene also has limited telepathic powers. She can also control fire. Selene is a demon sorceress who is respected by other sorcerers of great power who practice both black & white magick.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

SUPER off topic question time...when did Remy LeBeau become Sinister's son?

[DDM]

SUPER off topic question time...when did Remy LeBeau become Sinister's son?

X-Men: The End: Heroes & Martyrs #5. Technically speaking, Sinister is Gambit's father in name only in the same way Madelyne Pryor was Sinister's daughter. However, Gambit shares half of Sinister's own DNA & half of Scott Summers' DNA.

[Magneto_X]

Selene first appeared in The New Mutants #9 as the Black Priestess on Nova Roma; she is the creator of the Cult of Fire which worships Selene as their goddess incarnate. The Cult of Fire in known worldwide. One of her high priests, a jeweler, Friedrich Von Rhom, invited Selene to join the Hellfire Club once she learned she could leave Nova Roma (for 2,000 years she could not leave the city). Selene joined the Hellfire Club in The New Mutants #22-23 & applied to become the Black Queen in Uncanny X-Men #189. Selene's age is dated by her rivalry with the demon sorcerer, Kulan Gath, who fought Conan & apparently, Selene, in the Hyborean Age. Selene is immune to Gath's master spell as shown in Uncanny X-Men #190-191. Selene is shown to be the Black Queen in Uncanny X-Men #207.

Selene is a mutant with the psionic ability to drain the lifeforce of any human. As a result, she can project the stolen lifeforce into inanimate objects or turn them to dust. Selene also has limited telepathic powers. She can also control fire. Selene is a demon sorceress who is respected by other sorcerers of great power who practice both black & white magick.

That's an impressive resume she has. She is very under-rated. She should be fighting the X-men more instead of every few years since Magneto is being overused lately or even occasionally fight Dr.Strange and/or Ghost Rider.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

X-Men: The End: Heroes & Martyrs #5. Technically speaking, Sinister is Gambit's father in name only in the same way Madelyne Pryor was Sinister's daughter. However, Gambit shares half of Sinister's own DNA & half of Scott Summers' DNA.

So, Gambit has two fathers in Sinister and Cyclops? WTF?

As for Selene? She's a jobber. She's never gotta get promoted to the next level. Sorry.

[DDM]

That's an impressive resume she has. She is very under-rated. She should be fighting the X-men more instead of every few years since Magneto is being overused lately or even occasionally fight Dr.Strange and/or Ghost Rider.

Selene is still the Black Queen, but she currently does not possess a corporeal body to house her spirit since she has been trapped in the Hellfire Club catacombs circa Fantastic Four 1999 Annual. Once she consumes enough lifeforce, she will be at full power once more. Selene is still obsessed with Rachel Summers because Selene covets the powers of Phoenix for herself.

Selene will more than likely reappear in Uncanny X-Men & New Excalibur given Sage will join the group. Sage has to keep Sunspot, Lord Imperial, from being corrupted by White Queen, "Courtney Ross" & Black Queen, Selene.

[Spider-Nebber]

Who doesn't wish they were a fly on the wall the day the person at Marvel thought of Apocolypse.

"Got an idea. Okay, there is this mutant"

"I like it. What else?"

"Okay, well...he can shoot lasers."

"From his hands?"

"From anywhere. Also, he can grow to any size."

"Mmm, even better."

"Plus, he is incredibly smart. Plus, he has a space-ship that is incredibly powerful. Plus, he is the oldest mutant."

"Great! What is his weakness?!"

"Best part: he cannot die!"

...why hasn't Apoc won yet?!

[Magneto_X]

He can't the Richards family's bloodline only got changed when they were radiated, and that is a relatively recent ever in the Marvel Universe. They would've been a non- event when he first started his research. He was only interested in mutant DNA as well, and Richards/ Storm bloodline is human


IIRC the FF were mutants whose powers were dormant until the cosmic radiation activated them.

[Magneto_X]

Who doesn't wish they were a fly on the wall the day the person at Marvel thought of Apocolypse.

"Got an idea. Okay, there is this mutant"

"I like it. What else?"

"Okay, well...he can shoot lasers."

"From his hands?"

"From anywhere. Also, he can grow to any size."

"Mmm, even better."

"Plus, he is incredibly smart. Plus, he has a space-ship that is incredibly powerful. Plus, he is the oldest mutant."

"Great! What is his weakness?!"

"Best part: he cannot die!"

...why hasn't Apoc won yet?!

He needs to get a better agent, I guess. :)

[DDM]

Who doesn't wish they were a fly on the wall the day the person at Marvel thought of Apocolypse.

"Got an idea. Okay, there is this mutant"

"I like it. What else?"

"Okay, well...he can shoot lasers."

"From his hands?"

"From anywhere. Also, he can grow to any size."

"Mmm, even better."

"Plus, he is incredibly smart. Plus, he has a space-ship that is incredibly powerful. Plus, he is the oldest mutant."

"Great! What is his weakness?!"

"Best part: he cannot die!"

...why hasn't Apoc won yet?!


According to Louise Simonson, the great & powerful villain was supposed to be...the Owl! She thought he was a lame character for X-Factor. That's why she created Apocalypse.

[sir_snikt'alot]

Who doesn't wish they were a fly on the wall the day the person at Marvel thought of Apocolypse.

"Got an idea. Okay, there is this mutant"

"I like it. What else?"

"Okay, well...he can shoot lasers."

"From his hands?"

"From anywhere. Also, he can grow to any size."

"Mmm, even better."

"Plus, he is incredibly smart. Plus, he has a space-ship that is incredibly powerful. Plus, he is the oldest mutant."

"Great! What is his weakness?!"

"Best part: he cannot die!"

...why hasn't Apoc won yet?!

answer-piss poor writers,the guy could be a big threat to the x-men,even more than magneto,but no they have to have him job to everyone.

maybe they can bring him back from the dead and make him less invincible and more cerebral.

[El Chupacabra]

Sinister is probably my favorite villian in the X-Men universe - one of my favorites in Marvel. I always thought his character design was awesome. Just seeing him in X-Men comics makes you shudder.

As for his history. Most have already explained what his powers are. He has showed psionic abilities, shapechanging, the ability to control his own molecular build, ability to change his molecular build to adapt/counter another mutants power, immortality, concussive blasts, strength, endurance (You know the drill).

One of my favorite appearences was in the 1991 X-Men Run, issue #23. He appears to Cyclops while Scott is vacationing in Alaska with his grandparents and reveals he has been "impersonating" Scott's grandparents neighbor. He reveals to scott about the Legacy Virus and hints at another "Summer's Brother" (who was supposed to be Adam X according to Kubert but was dropped). The current Dark Riders show up and go to attack both Cyclops and Sinister. The Riders even say that Sinister is not that strong and uses muscle to do his dirty deeds for him ... Sinister easily proves them wrong as well as proving he could take them all apart. He tells them not to kill Scott ... but they can rough him up.

- As for his history. He was basically turned into Sinister by Apocalypse in the 19th century - mainly to work on his genetic studies. He turned on Apocalypse and from that day on his main goal was to eliminate Apocalypse. He himself could not kill Apocalypse so he went about finding ways to do so. Over time he came across the Summer's brothers. He brought them to his Orphan house (secretly the base for some of his studies on genetics and mutants). He saw something in the brothers genes, mainly Scotts, which he became obsessed with and from then on he pretty much kept an eye and even influenced Scott's life. His ultimate goal was to breed a child through Scott and Jean Grey (another he found interesting ... but Xavier got to her first). Jean and Scott fell in love much to Sinister's amusement anyway. However, Pheonix came about and messed things up but Madelyn Prior emerged - Scott and her had a baby, Nathan Summers (Cable). This of course was the child Sinister wanted - the child who could destroy Apocalypse.

- Sinister also worked with Stryfe during X-Cutioners Song. He was integral in opening the canister containing the Legacy Virus.

- Apocalypse was finally destroyed. Sinister is now free of a master and his current plans are unknown.

- He has dealings with Gambit which occured in the past which have never been followed up on. He basically orchastrated Gambit and what's her name going back in time so that he could obtain his shape shifting powers.

As far as im concerned, they should bring him back into the mix. Maybe a big event or something as he is a main player and not just some lacky. I'm sick of seeing Magneto all the time. He has really lost his luster. Sinister is far more interesting, diabolical, intelligent, and capable of causing more damage from behind the scenes. In my opinion, he is more powerful as well. He is one of the last mutants I would want to go into a fight with toe to toe.

[Alpha to Omega]

IIRC the FF were mutants whose powers were dormant until the cosmic radiation activated them.

Nope, all four of the FF were plain humans who were mutated by the cosmic rays just like Banner was the human before getting caught in the Gamma Bomb's explosion. Which still doesn't explain why Sinister has never gone after Franklin when his power has been known about for years in Marvel time and the fact that of the two examples of Richards DNA mixing with Summers-Grey DNA both have been obscenely powerful one of them being Hyperstorm who was able to conquer multiple timelines and had control of all four fundamental forces of the universe.

[fishtaco]

Gambit didn't head up the Mutant Massacre; as the original story plainly showed, he wasn't there. For some reason, he's been fooled into thinking he was -- Sinister messing with his mind or something, for purposes unknown -- but he wasn't involved in the Massacre.He was there. We didnt see him though, as it was a retcon. Its respectable. He was there. Why is it hard to believe?

[The Lucky One]

He was there. We didnt see him though, as it was a retcon. Its respectable. He was there. Why is it hard to believe?

Because we clearly saw the Marauders at every stage of their journey, and he wasn't with them. I refuse to accept the idea that every time we saw them, he was just standing slightly off-panel and letting Scalphunter lead... but no, he really was there, we swear! It's stupid. It's also stupid to tell us years later that he led them in, when they were clearly seen tracking a Morlock and a Hellfire Club guard from San Francisco to New York and into the tunnels. It leaves nothing for Gambit to do, which means you have to accept one of two things. Either:

1) Sinister had Gambit gather the Marauders (feasible, if pointless; could've done it himself), then just for the hell of it had him accompany them to the Massacre, knowing Gambit might try to intervene to save people (damn heroes) and that he wasn't necessary in the slightest; or

2) Sinister, or some third party, is messing with Gambit by making him think he was involved and forcing him to live with the guilt of it.

To me, option 2 makes far, far more sense, so that's the one I choose to believe. You are, of course, perfectly free to disagree.
:)

-D

[Spider-Nebber]

He needs to get a better agent, I guess. :)

Perhaps Mojo would like to help him out, cause that guy's only "powers" is that he's really quite ugly. But that hasn't stopped him from putting the X-Men in danger time and time again.

[DDM]

He was there. We didnt see him though, as it was a retcon. Its respectable. He was there. Why is it hard to believe?

Fishtaco, Uncanny X-Men #350 clearly contradicts Uncanny X-Men #210. Scalphunter killed the Hellfire Club mercenary in Los Angeles--along with Tommy's Morlock friends--leaving only herself to survive. Tommy believes if she outran the Marauders cross country & make it safely home to the Morlock Tunnels she would be safe. Tommy was wrong. Scalphunter used Tommy to lead the Marauders to the Morlock Tunnels. Scalphunter says so in Uncanny X-Men #210 before he kills her. Now, where was Gambit in this issue? Simple. Gambit didn't exist yet.

Gambit first appeared much later in Uncanny X-Men #266. Uncanny X-Men #350's "revelation" just does not hold much credibility due to the contradiction that Gambit somehow gathered the Marauders to kill the Morlocks. Yet Gambit seemed not to know the Morlocks or the Marauders. More contradictions. Unfortunately, Gambit's "revelation" cannot be true because of the contradiction due to editors not doing their homework.

I saw Gambit's "revelation" coming several issues before it was revealed. But the events in Uncanny X-Men #210 bothered me because Uncanny X-Men #350 contradicted what has already been long established.

[Magneto_X]

- Apocalypse was finally destroyed. Sinister is now free of a master and his current plans are unknown.


When did this happen?

Apoc gets "destroyed" every time he makes an appearance then sleeps for a few months (for someone who's invincible he sure seems to get fatally injured a lot) or it was just another version of him from another future timeline not the 616 version.

Y'know what, in all the issues I have with Cable in them I was never convinced he could have given Apoc a decent fight let alone kill him when entire X-men rosters have been devastated by En Sabah Nur.

[DDM]

When did this happen?

Apoc gets "destroyed" every time he makes an appearance then sleeps for a few months (for someone who's invincible he sure seems to get fatally injured a lot) or it was just another version of him from another future timeline not the 616 version.

Y'know what, in all the issues I have with Cable in them I was never convinced he could have given Apoc a decent fight let alone kill him when entire X-men rosters have been devastated by En Sabah Nur.

Apocalypse supposedly died in X-Men: The Search for Cyclops #1-4.

[The Lucky One]

Y'know what, in all the issues I have with Cable in them I was never convinced he could have given Apoc a decent fight let alone kill him when entire X-men rosters have been devastated by En Sabah Nur.

Entire X-Men rosters have stomped all over Apocalypse and made him cry, too. One of my big problems with the guy, how inconsistently he's written.

Perhaps Mojo would like to help him out, cause that guy's only "powers" is that he's really quite ugly.

Well, that and being a stronger sorceror than Dr. Strange...

-D

[Magneto_X]

Apocalypse supposedly died in X-Men: The Search for Cyclops #1-4.

For some reason I expect he'll be back. Apoc is as hard to kill as Magneto.

[fishtaco]

Fishtaco, Uncanny X-Men #350 clearly contradicts Uncanny X-Men #210. Scalphunter killed the Hellfire Club mercenary in Los Angeles--along with Tommy's Morlock friends--leaving only herself to survive. Tommy believes if she outran the Marauders cross country & make it safely home to the Morlock Tunnels she would be safe. Tommy was wrong. Scalphunter used Tommy to lead the Marauders to the Morlock Tunnels. Scalphunter says so in Uncanny X-Men #210 before he kills her. Now, where was Gambit in this issue? Simple. Gambit didn't exist yet.

Gambit first appeared much later in Uncanny X-Men #266. Uncanny X-Men #350's "revelation" just does not hold much credibility due to the contradiction that Gambit somehow gathered the Marauders to kill the Morlocks. Yet Gambit seemed not to know the Morlocks or the Marauders. More contradictions. Unfortunately, Gambit's "revelation" cannot be true because of the contradiction due to editors not doing their homework.

I saw Gambit's "revelation" coming several issues before it was revealed. But the events in Uncanny X-Men #210 bothered me because Uncanny X-Men #350 contradicted what has already been long established.That makes perfect sense. okay then.

[Spider-Nebber]

Well, that and being a stronger sorceror than Dr. Strange...

-D

Really?

Stronger than D. Strange?

Really?

[The Lucky One]

Really?

Stronger than D. Strange?

Really?

Longshot #6, guest-starring Dr. Strange.

-D

[ocelotrevs]

IIRC the FF were mutants whose powers were dormant until the cosmic radiation activated them.

Beats me, anyone can be a mutant as eeryone has the latent gene. But Sinister wanted too look at active genes (if I'm correct, don't take my word as gospel)

[DDM]

Re: mutant genes

Mutants' genes are different in that mutants generate a completely different psi-pattern than a normal or mutated human. Therefore, Sinister would have even less reasons to be involved into the Fantastic Four, Avengers, Spider-Man...

Sinister would be interested in X-Men (plus related groups), the Hellfire Club, Apocalypse due to all of them being mutants.

[Blackcat]

According to Louise Simonson, the great & powerful villain was supposed to be...the Owl! She thought he was a lame character for X-Factor. That's why she created Apocalypse.

A women created Apo??? Wow, never knew that!

.

[fishtaco]

I thought that Bob Layton created Apocalypse.

[DDM]

I thought that Bob Layton created Apocalypse.

Bob Layton had intended the mystery villain to be Daredevil foe, the Owl. Louise Simonson was hired & changed the villain to Apocalypse. Louise Simonson & Jackson Guice created Apocalypse. Layton left to do X-Factor Annual #1 then never returned to the book.

[Alpha to Omega]

Now I'm wondering why Sinister has never expressed any interest in Rick Jones who has activated the end result of human evolution in the Destiny Force.

[DDM]

Now I'm wondering why Sinister has never expressed any interest in Rick Jones who has activated the end result of human evolution in the Destiny Force.

Rick Jones is in the Avengers office; whereas, Sinister is in the X-Men office.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

As far as im concerned, they should bring him back into the mix. Maybe a big event or something as he is a main player and not just some lacky. I'm sick of seeing Magneto all the time. He has really lost his luster. Sinister is far more interesting, diabolical, intelligent, and capable of causing more damage from behind the scenes. In my opinion, he is more powerful as well. He is one of the last mutants I would want to go into a fight with toe to toe.


Sinister is great and probably the most underrated villian today in comics but Magneto has lost nothing. The writers have. If not for mistakes made by Lobdell and Morrison, Claremont wouldn't of had to come in and clean up the mess they made by killing him over and over again with no purpose. No matter. The House of Magnus is going just fine with a cadre of infinite possibilities.

[Alpha to Omega]

Rick Jones is in the Avengers office; whereas, Sinister is in the X-Men office.

No Rick Jones was in whatever office had Captain Marvel and is now most likely in the Hulk office.

[El Chupacabra]

Sinister is great and probably the most underrated villian today in comics but Magneto has lost nothing. The writers have. If not for mistakes made by Lobdell and Morrison, Claremont wouldn't of had to come in and clean up the mess they made by killing him over and over again with no purpose. No matter. The House of Magnus is going just fine with a cadre of infinite possibilities.

I agree with you from a character stand point. Magneto really hasn't lost "it". He is still a great villain, if not the best. But for myself, he just doesn't mean what he used to. I don't really consider his appearances or events as big as I once did ... mainly because he has a new event all the time. Plus the Ultimate line is obsessed with him as I am with the Ultimate line. It just seems like he is always around every year in some form or another. I did like the Genosha event though.

As for House of M, I am also enjoying it so far. I hope they do it right and actually have some great consequences and follow ups like they say they do. Otherwise it's just another AoA.

[xakko]

Just a silly question, but when Cable was in full God mode, why wouldn't he have moved to put Sinister in his place. He seemed to be in contact with every person on the planet, so it would've been in his power.

I also wonder if Sinister, should he become aware of the potential of the Richards/Storm/Summers/Grey genetic cocktail, might divert a bit of his research into that direction.

[Magneto_X]

I agree with you from a character stand point. Magneto really hasn't lost "it". He is still a great villain, if not the best. But for myself, he just doesn't mean what he used to. I don't really consider his appearances or events as big as I once did ... mainly because he has a new event all the time. Plus the Ultimate line is obsessed with him as I am with the Ultimate line. It just seems like he is always around every year in some form or another. I did like the Genosha event though.


Magneto's just over-exposed. Marvel does seems to do that with him every few years.

[fishtaco]

Just a silly question, but when Cable was in full God mode, why wouldn't he have moved to put Sinister in his place. He seemed to be in contact with every person on the planet, so it would've been in his power.

I also wonder if Sinister, should he become aware of the potential of the Richards/Storm/Summers/Grey genetic cocktail, might divert a bit of his research into that direction.He wasnt in contact with every person. Almost every person. No matter how powerful the telepath, Sinister's mind cannot be read, and thus theres nothing much he can do. And besides, I dont think Cable would want Sinister near any of his people. Deadpool is already enough trouble for Providence to deal with :D

But hey, with Sinister appearing right now in CDP, you'll never know ;)

[cable guy]

Just a silly question, but when Cable was in full God mode, why wouldn't he have moved to put Sinister in his place. He seemed to be in contact with every person on the planet, so it would've been in his power.

I also wonder if Sinister, should he become aware of the potential of the Richards/Storm/Summers/Grey genetic cocktail, might divert a bit of his research into that direction.

Do you mean to bring him to his providence or destroy him.

Either way, Cable couldn't have cared less about Sinister, unless he showed up on his doorstep. Then he would have killed him.

[ocelotrevs]

...I also wonder if Sinister, should he become aware of the potential of the Richards/Storm/Summers/Grey genetic cocktail, might divert a bit of his research into that direction...

Not really, Apocalyse is dead now. The main reason he was looking at Summers/ Grey, is because he wanted to kick up Apocalyse