Baseball After The All-Star Break

[Dennis K]

I thought it was a good time to start a new thread.

[Dennis K]

Alex Rodriguez just drilled a two run homer off of Schilling in his relief pitcher debut. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.. :D

[LtMarvel]

The Cardinals begin the second half with their second biggest lead at the All-Star Break ever--11 1/2 games! With the rest of the NL Central something like 21 games below .500, the toughest thing might be just focusing on the remaining games before the playoffs.

Scott Rolen, Jim Edmonds, and Larry Walker all are having sub-par years at the plate (and the team still leads the league in scoring!). With Matt Morris's return, starting pitching is up!

Now, if everyone can stay healthy for the playoffs....

[Phrozen]

I hope the Nats keep on their pace and make the playoffs. It would be great for the franchise and hopefully firmly establish the team in DC.

[Steve]

Alex Rodriguez just drilled a two run homer off of Schilling in his relief pitcher debut. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.. :D
I saw that! lol.

[Valmore]

Maybe they shoulda listened to Johnny Damon and not made Schilling a reliever. :mad:

[Sheldon]

Or maybe Schilling is just starting to show his age?

[Valmore]

That's one way to get revenge... a second 17-1 beating in the same season.

[cable guy]

Maybe they shoulda listened to Johnny Damon and not made Schilling a reliever. :mad:

I think they all hated it in the locker room.

[hulahulk]

Or maybe Schilling is just starting to show his age?

Like his former teammate and co-MVP winner, Randy Johnson.

[hulahulk]

That's one way to get revenge... a second 17-1 beating in the same season.

The Spankmes pitching staff is in serious trouble, while Boomer relishes facing his former team. He may not always beat 'em, but he is ready and willing.

Ortiz and Nixon continue to do wonders vs NY.

[thik_3rd]

i hate pujols for that home run tonight. that game was a heartbreaker for me.

[LtMarvel]

i hate pujols for that home run tonight. that game was a heartbreaker for me.
That was an awesome game. The Redbirds get two runs by two unlikely home run hitters. Then, after a bad call on a stolen base, the Astros score a tying run off the Cards' closer. In the thirteenth, the Astros score one run, and Puljos hits a walk-off two run homer (the 8th walk off hr of his career).

What a beter way to start the second half?

[John S Osen]

Yanks get Leiter, will start him Sunday. Good luck! lol

[thik_3rd]

That was an awesome game. The Redbirds get two runs by two unlikely home run hitters. Then, after a bad call on a stolen base, the Astros score a tying run off the Cards' closer. In the thirteenth, the Astros score one run, and Puljos hits a walk-off two run homer (the 8th walk off hr of his career).

What a beter way to start the second half?
at least isringhausen couldve gotten a save for my fantasy team.
astros lose, and i dont even get a save. that sucks.

[John S Osen]

at least isringhausen couldve gotten a save for my fantasy team. astros lose, and i dont even get a save. that sucks.I anticipated Foulke going on the DL, picked up Timlin on 2 fantasy teams, and now they let Schilling close! TOBOL! :mad:

[Dennis K]

Now we all have read about what a lousy year the Yankees have been having, but when you look at the standings, they're only 1.5 games behind the Red Sox. Why not some comments on what a shit year the Red Sox have been having. Please Red Sox fans, don't try and hand me any injuries stories, because that really doesn't hold water.

[Valmore]

Actually, one of my fervent wishes is that the media would stop making a big deal about what a piss poor season it is when the Yankees aren't in first place. I said that when they had their awful start this year and everyone was dooming and glooimg.

[Dennis K]

And so the Yankees take 3 out of 4 from the Red Sox in Boston. With Al Leiter pitching tonight. LOL Way to go Red Sox nation.

[Valmore]

And so the Yankees take 3 out of 4 from the Red Sox in Boston. With Al Leiter pitching tonight. LOL Way to go Red Sox nation.

Nation? Why us? We didn't play in the game and make Al Leiter look good. That's the players' fault, not ours.

[Dennis K]

Nation? Why us? We didn't play in the game and make Al Leiter look good. That's the players' fault, not ours.

Yeah, but all fans strutting around like you've accomplished something? What did it take, 86 years to win the World Series? See you in 2090!

[PIMPurself]

Nation? Why us? We didn't play in the game and make Al Leiter look good. That's the players' fault, not ours.

This is true. If they had figured out to swing before the count got to 0-2, they might have had a bit more success.

[Valmore]

Yeah, but all fans strutting around like you've accomplished something? What did it take, 86 years to win the World Series? See you in 2090!

We accomplished something.

We sat around for 86 years waiting for the team to win another World Series.

[hulahulk]

Yeah, but all fans strutting around like you've accomplished something? What did it take, 86 years to win the World Series? See you in 2090!


Well, now that is a weird response.

[hulahulk]

This is true. If they had figured out to swing before the count got to 0-2, they might have had a bit more success.

They actually have quite a few 1st pitch hits. They also have an enormous amount of 2 out hits. But these things do not pan out every game.

[hulahulk]

Now we all have read about what a lousy year the Yankees have been having, but when you look at the standings, they're only 1.5 games behind the Red Sox. Why not some comments on what a shit year the Red Sox have been having. Please Red Sox fans, don't try and hand me any injuries stories, because that really doesn't hold water.

They are better than a year ago, and we all know how 2004 ended up. And the Yanks are still the Yanks, even if they have been streaky. Nobody ought to count them out. And the tabloids are full of items on how the Sox bull pen is weak right now, so you are wrong in saying that there is nothing mentioned in that regard. You need to think before you type.

[LtMarvel]

In the other Championship series rematch, The Cardinals swept the Astros. The bad news is that Reggie Sanders has a broken leg (outfield collision) and will be out till September. The Redbirds will call up red-hot John Rodriguez, who since joining AAA Memphis has hit .342, 17 homers, 47 rbis in a mere 120 at-bats (1 hr in every 7 ab!!!).

Both the Astros and Cards really enjoyed an extra day in their all-star break (they had Thursday off). I'd bet most players would trade an odd Mon/Thur sometime in the season to make their breaks four days.. :)

[Brian Cronin]

I haven't seen a single Red Sox fan do anything that I didn't see from plenty of Yankee fans when the Yankees were winning.

Which is to say that a lot of them went about it nicely, and a lot of them went about it jerkily.

New York and Boston DO have a large percentage of jerkish fans.

-Brian

[Valmore]

I haven't seen a single Red Sox fan do anything that I didn't see from plenty of Yankee fans when the Yankees were winning.

Which is to say that a lot of them went about it nicely, and a lot of them went about it jerkily.

New York and Boston DO have a large percentage of jerkish fans.

Most major cities do - Chicago, Los Angeles - they've all got a large jerkish fanbase.

But NONE of those cities top Philadelphia.

Just trust me on this - Philadelphia has the largest percentage of jerkish fans of ANY city in the United States.

[Brian Cronin]

Most major cities do - Chicago, Los Angeles - they've all got a large jerkish fanbase.

But NONE of those cities top Philadelphia.

Just trust me on this - Philadelphia has the largest percentage of jerkish fans of ANY city in the United States.

No argument here.

New York and Boston are exceptionally jerky, but yeah, Philly takes the cake.

It is like they RELISH it.

-Brian

[Valmore]

No argument here.

New York and Boston are exceptionally jerky, but yeah, Philly takes the cake.

It is like they RELISH it.

Seriously - a lot of them DO.

Funny thing is, I've met more nice Boston and New York fans then I have jerky ones. In fact, since my college was near Philadelphia and Baltimore and not super far from NYC, I had a good friend who was an Orioles fan and a good friend who was a Yankees fan and a good friend who was a Phillies fan - all from those areas.

The New York fan was the nicest of all - he was almost apologetic at how often the Yankees won as compared to how many times the Red Sox fell short.

The Orioles fan was a bit of a pain. He liked rubbing it in.

The Phillies fan? He relished the idea of getting a chance to bean J.D. Drew with a few D-cell batteries. Took pride in the city's past of tossing snowballs at Santa as well as batteries at other baseball players. And when Eric Lindros left for New York... let's just say he was hoping the goon squad would get him in the first home game of the season.

[thik_3rd]

In the other Championship series rematch, The Cardinals swept the Astros.
what other nlcs were you watching? the series went the full seven. both teams swept at home...maybe thats what you meant.

[Brian Cronin]

what other nlcs were you watching? the series went the full seven. both teams swept at home...maybe thats what you meant.

He means in the regular season REMATCH. :)

That happened this past weekend.

-Brian

[thik_3rd]

haha, didnt see the "re".

[Dennis K]

They are better than a year ago, and we all know how 2004 ended up. And the Yanks are still the Yanks, even if they have been streaky. Nobody ought to count them out. And the tabloids are full of items on how the Sox bull pen is weak right now, so you are wrong in saying that there is nothing mentioned in that regard. You need to think before you type.

Better than a year ago? Oh really? That's laughable. I'm glad the glass is always half-full for you, but that's practically delusional. Neither the Yankees or the Red Sox are better than they were a year ago. Perhaps I'm not the only one who should think before typing.

[hulahulk]

Better than a year ago? Oh really? That's laughable. I'm glad the glass is always half-full for you, but that's practically delusional. Neither the Yankees or the Red Sox are better than they were a year ago. Perhaps I'm not the only one who should think before typing.

For your information:

AL East as of July 4, 2005 (81 games)

W L PCT GB
Boston 46 35 .568
Baltimore 44 38 .537 2.5
New York 42 39 .519 4.0
Toronto 42 40 .512 4.5
Tampa Bay 27 56 .325 20.0

2nd half of 2004 Season (81 games)
Won Lost GB PCT
Boston 54 27 - .667
Yankees 50 31 4.0 .617
Baltimore 42 39 12.0 .519
Toronto 32 49 22.0 .395
Tampa Bay 30 51 24.0 .370
2004 full season standings
Won Lost GB PCT
Yankees 101 61 - .623
Boston 98 64 3.0 .605
Baltimore 78 84 23.0 .481
Tampa Bay 70 91 30.5 .435
Toronto 67 94 33.5 .416

I had trouble finding readily available stats from the 1st half of the 2004 season, so I took 2004’s full season stats and 2nd half stats and worked the general numbers for the first half.



Based on above stats through first half of 2004 season, Boston was 44 W and 37 L and in second place. Their late season charge in August was the best in MLB. So, in reality, they ARE better this year, based on 1st half performances.

Sources: mlb.com and http://www.dougstats.com/2004.html

[Lone Ranger]

It's pretty interesting to see Al Leiter pitching for the Yankees.

I remember way back when (sometime in the mid-19th Century, I believe) when we traded Toronto favourite Jesse Barfield for Al Leiter, chronic blister and all.

It's kind of sad to see the AL East going back to form. The Blue Jays are done - I'd be shocked to see them finish 5 games above. 500, but I at least hope the Os can stick around to make it a threesome.

[Sheldon]

I remember how made my dad would get whenever that Blister would flair up on Leiter. Barfield was one of his favorites...

Poor Jays.....It all fell apart when Halladay went down. I think that a .500 season is within reach, and considering their lineup admirable....

[Dennis K]

And now the Yankees are in first place.

[Dennis K]

Kenny Rogers just doesn't get it, does he?

[TitoJones]

Reds still suck, but it's nice to see Griff returning to form, (I think I typed the same exact post, verbatum last year), hope he doesn't get injured before I finsih typing this post.

I think the Reds will at least try to trade some of that offense for some pitching before the deadline. I would say Griff, but with his contract, unless it's to the Yankees I don't think so. So my guess is that it's going to be either Austen Kearns or Adam Dunn.

[jessecuster]

Like all good South Side of Chicagoans I will keep repeating "this year is different" until October.

[Hiromi]

Vwoot! Braves on top in the East after two Nail Biter games.

[Jason Postel]

Vwoot! Braves on top in the East after two Nail Biter games.

Bobby Cox truly is amazing. That team has no business being there and yet... there they are. Everyone likes to say Joe Torre is such a great manager, just look at what Bobby Cox does year in and year out. How can you pick against this guy?

[Valmore]

I just hope Matt Clement is okay.

Geez, it's like Bryce Florie all over again! :(

[Jason Postel]

I just hope Matt Clement is okay.

Geez, it's like Bryce Florie all over again! :(

That was hard to watch. He's already checked out of the hospital though so in terms of health he's fine. Mentally though, we'll see. Could take him a good five or six starts to get his mind back to where it needs to be.

[Valmore]

That was hard to watch. He's already checked out of the hospital though so in terms of health he's fine. Mentally though, we'll see. Could take him a good five or six starts to get his mind back to where it needs to be.

Thanks. I just read th recap of last night's game and it mentioned he was out and doing okay. Still a little dizzy at times, but otherwise fine. No concussion.

[Dennis K]

I'm just about ready to run the white flag up the flagpole in this baseball season. Very disappointed with the Marlins performance.

[Sheldon]

The Blue Jays are a funny team....they can beat the 1st place teams, but get beaten up by the Tampa's and Kanas City's of the MLB. They are tied for 3rd place now, but I don't know if its because they are playing better or just that the Orioles have been playing really poorly of late.

[thik_3rd]

it sucks backe went on the dl and wont be playing tonight vs the mets. i was really hoping to take 3 out of 4 from the mets this series but i dont think that'll happen with zeke and wandy starting the first two games against pedro and benson.

[Scottsdale_Saint]

there's rumblings of a three team megadeal in place that would send Manny & Denny Baez to the NY Mets, Mike Cameron and Aubrey Huff to the Red Sox and multiple prospects to the Devil Rays...if the Sox are giving up on the season, i think it's an alright deal since Manny's being such a pain in the backside, but while Huff has put up nice stats on a completely abominable team, i'm pretty sure every contender would love to see Manny out of Boston. i just always think it's a mistake to trade an obvious franchise player and difference maker like Manny for what seems to me, complementary talent at best. we'll see if this deal goes down, but if it does, i think postseason hopes are gone for Boston.

Manny Ramirex Megadeal (ESPN.com) (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2119978)

[Valmore]

Manny pulls crap every year. Nobody wants his contract. Hell, he was put on WAIVERS last off season and nobody bit.

He won't be traded.

[Brian Cronin]

What a bad trade for Boston.

-Brian

[Valmore]

What a bad trade for Boston.

Fortunately, Boston smartened up and realized they weren't getting crap for Manny, so they went back and told the Mets to pony up more, and the Mets said screw that.

So unless some miracle is worked out, I don't see Manny leaving Boston.

[Dennis K]

Watching the Pirates/Braves game on Turner South, and they mentioned a possible Ramirez trade a few innings ago.

[hulahulk]

I'm waiting with the patience of a saint...

...tick tock, tick, tock...



OK, already! Just get it done if it's gonna happen! Don't torture me any longer! Arrrrgh! Hulahulk smash!:D

[Brian Cronin]

Well, looks like the deal is officially dead.

Too bad, I would have loved that deal...as a Yankee fan. :D

-Brian

[Valmore]

Well, looks like the deal is officially dead.

Too bad, I would have loved that deal...as a Yankee fan. :D

Yeah, because it would have made the Red Sox a whole lot worse.

[cable guy]

Manny ain't goin anywhere.

[hulahulk]

I just wanna know if my beloved Bosox are going to bolster the pitching rotation with dudes like Burnett or whomever. I think that was the major focus behind the scenes all along, with the Manny thing being a front-and-center distraction.

[Dennis K]

with the Manny thing being a front-and-center distraction.


Ramirez pulled from the starting lineup.... Schilling and Ramirez having a verbal altercation down in Tampa... less than 17 hours until the trade deadline.... I think he's staying in Boston.

[Dennis K]

Just announced: The Boston Red Sox have acquired Jose Cruz Jr. from the Arizona Diamondbacks for two minor leaguers.

[El Chupacabra]

Ramirez pulled from the starting lineup.... Schilling and Ramirez having a verbal altercation down in Tampa... less than 17 hours until the trade deadline.... I think he's staying in Boston.

From what I understand the 3-team trade fell apart.

[hulahulk]

From what I understand the 3-team trade fell apart.

Yes, with Tampa Bay supposedly being the deal-breaker. But this is big business, and even a basement team can have influence if it is understood that they can benefit further down the line with some other concoction.

[Valmore]

Just announced: The Boston Red Sox have acquired Jose Cruz Jr. from the Arizona Diamondbacks for two minor leaguers.

Probably doesn't mean much, since Trot Nixon has been having leg problems all year and has been on a DL stint as of late. It probably means insurance in the outfield in case of Nixon being out rather than trading Manny.

[Scottsdale_Saint]

Probably doesn't mean much, since Trot Nixon has been having leg problems all year and has been on a DL stint as of late. It probably means insurance in the outfield in case of Nixon being out rather than trading Manny.yeah, it doesn't mean much, because this guy is an absolute joke of flesh. guy has tons of talent, which he flashes when there's nothing on the line, like a two run bomb, when you're behind or ahead 10-2. i saw our local station (AZ.), flash his career numbers with men in scoring position and it's something like .138. how someone can put up those kind of numbers for a prolonged amount of time and still pull a roster spot, is beyond me.

[Brian Cronin]

I like the Yankees' approach (SO FAR), which is to just bolster the team from the minors and people cut from other teams.

Along that line, I wouldn't have minded the Yankees getting Cruz Jr., but only if it was for free.

The idea of actually trading players for him?

Creepy.

-Brian

[surferfan23]

Well, looks like the deal is officially dead.

Too bad, I would have loved that deal...as a Yankee fan. :D

-Brian

Hello, Cronin.

You are a Yankees fan? Just when I thought you couldn't get any lower. Are you from NY? That'd be the only way for forgiveness from me. I am from Florida, and I am a homer, the Marlins and the D-Rays are my favorites. One thing I hate in baseball is frontrunners, Cronin. All of the sudden the former Angels and Diamondback fans are Red Sox fans. I know Yanks fans are very passionate, though. I love to hate the Yankees, Brian. Not like the pure, unadulterated hate that I harbour towards the Knicks,Redskins, Lakers, Eagles, Giants, 49ers, Steelers, Flyers, Rangers, or the FSU Seminoles.

[Hiromi]

Looks like the East is now in cruise control, as the Braves are 5 games in first. I'm betting Griffey Jr is getting traded somewhere.

[zilch]

Cards vs ChiSox

Cards in 5.

Bet the farm.

[Hiromi]

Braves traded for Kyle Farnsworth yesterday, this should really help out the bulpen. Depending on how he does he might take over the closer role from Reitsma.

[thik_3rd]

i think (hope) reitsma keeps the job just because i have him on my fantasy team. he's been doing well lately, its his job to lose, not farnsworth's to win at this point.

[Punchy]

Looks like the Dodgers aren't going to make a move at the trade deadline. What a drag, McCourt is such a terrible owner. He promised the team a $100 million payroll and yet here the team is around $80 million and sucking ass. Yet their attendance is through the roof. What a bum deal for the fans.

And what the hell is wrong with the Angels lately?

[Jason Postel]

i think (hope) reitsma keeps the job just because i have him on my fantasy team. he's been doing well lately, its his job to lose, not farnsworth's to win at this point.

I'm in the opposite situation. I have Farnsworth. It's definently Reitsma's job though seeing as how Farnsworth still has his suspense to serve.

[LtMarvel]

A hint to you fantasy owners: J-Rod, St. Louis of

[surferfan23]

Congrats to Rhyno and Wade Boogs for going into the Hall of Fame. I was at the game where Boggs got his 3,000th hit-a homerun against the Cleveland Indians- in Tampa.

[Hiromi]

Oh forgot, Julio Fanco hit his 2500th hit, if he'd played MLB his entire career instead of other leagues he'd probably be close to 4000. The fact that he's 47 and can still hit might have something to do with it...

[TitoJones]

Well the deadline came and went withouth the Reds doing anything. But the way they've been playing of late (yes I know it's the NL West), I figured that either A)Nobody wanted what they were selling or B)Management is just going to wait until the offseason to do something.

I'm hoping it's B.

[surferfan23]

Well the deadline came and went withouth the Reds doing anything. But the way they've been playing of late (yes I know it's the NL West), I figured that either A)Nobody wanted what they were selling or B)Management is just going to wait until the offseason to do something.

I'm hoping it's B.

The Reds are in the NL Central, pardner.

[thik_3rd]

Well the deadline came and went withouth the Reds doing anything. But the way they've been playing of late (yes I know it's the NL West), I figured that either A)Nobody wanted what they were selling or B)Management is just going to wait until the offseason to do something.

I'm hoping it's B.
god i wouldve loved to see griffey make his way to the astros...if yall paid for him. not so big on dunn though.

[sixstringguild]

all I gotta say is "how 'bout dem ChiSox?". Man, they continue to pleasantly surprise me...Wish they got AJ Burnett but oh well...

[El Chupacabra]

all I gotta say is "how 'bout dem ChiSox?". Man, they continue to pleasantly surprise me...Wish they got AJ Burnett but oh well...

I do as well but I sorta wondered where they would put him. I mean their starting 5 are pretty solid. Garland, Buhrle, Garcia, Contreras, and Hernandez. Contreras is either pretty solid or rather weak. El Duque is probabaly the worst of that bunch. But even so, their starting rotation is one of the strongest in the league (Astros/Cards may have them beaten. I would say the Cubs but they have never proven it due to injuries). Plus their bullpen is solid.

I subscribe to that MLB package though and I watch a majority of the White Sox games (such as the vs. Orioles right now). They play such great baseball and are extremely fun to watch. They hit a decent amount of homeruns, their hitters may not all be All-Stars but they work well together, and when Posednick gets on base ... stuff starts happening.

Frank Thomas is my favorite player in the league and I was happy to see him come back and hit the longball well. Unfortunately he is out again. Likely for the rest of the season. I don't know what his future holds but I would like to see him play another 2 healthy seasons and get past that 500 mark. Hopefully he does it with the ChiSox.

All that and they have the best commentary crew, Ken "The Hawk" Harrelson and DJ.

"That ball hit WAY BACK! He looks up! Put it on the board! YES!!!!!"

[Punchy]

Raphael Palmeiro found guilty of steroid use (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=531&e=1&u=/ap/20050801/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bba_drugs_palmeiro)

And only weeks after his 3,000th hit. How disappointing.

[Deathstroke]

Raphael Palmeiro found guilty of steroid use (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=531&e=1&u=/ap/20050801/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bba_drugs_palmeiro)

And only weeks after his 3,000th hit. How disappointing.

And I wonder what's going to happen if anything with him having testified in front of Congress.

[El Chupacabra]

Raphael Palmeiro found guilty of steroid use (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=531&e=1&u=/ap/20050801/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bba_drugs_palmeiro)

And only weeks after his 3,000th hit. How disappointing.

Yeah. This is really bad news. There is the whole debate of him being a hall of famer to start with (I support) but this may just be that nail in the coffin needed for Raph not to make the HoF.

[sixstringguild]

I do as well but I sorta wondered where they would put him. I mean their starting 5 are pretty solid. Garland, Buhrle, Garcia, Contreras, and Hernandez. Contreras is either pretty solid or rather weak. El Duque is probabaly the worst of that bunch. But even so, their starting rotation is one of the strongest in the league (Astros/Cards may have them beaten. I would say the Cubs but they have never proven it due to injuries). Plus their bullpen is solid.

I subscribe to that MLB package though and I watch a majority of the White Sox games (such as the vs. Orioles right now). They play such great baseball and are extremely fun to watch. They hit a decent amount of homeruns, their hitters may not all be All-Stars but they work well together, and when Posednick gets on base ... stuff starts happening.

Frank Thomas is my favorite player in the league and I was happy to see him come back and hit the longball well. Unfortunately he is out again. Likely for the rest of the season. I don't know what his future holds but I would like to see him play another 2 healthy seasons and get past that 500 mark. Hopefully he does it with the ChiSox.

All that and they have the best commentary crew, Ken "The Hawk" Harrelson and DJ.

"That ball hit WAY BACK! He looks up! Put it on the board! YES!!!!!"

Now you're speaking my language! Big Frank was my favorite player growing up, but I'm afraid his best days are behind him. He was quoted recently that he just wants to live the rest of his life pain free. I'm willing to bet he retires...then again he may take one more crack at it, but I don't think the Sox will pick up his option.

I'm a little worried that the rotation wont hold up in the playoffs. The Sox have a knack for underproducing once they get to the postseason...

And w/ Palmeiro, that is a crying shame. I hope he doesn't get into the HOF now. I don't think he will w/ the steroids now coming out. Besides that, he was wearing snakeskin cowboy boots when I was a kid and that alone should get him banned ;)

[Dennis K]

Raphael Palmeiro found guilty of steroid use (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=531&e=1&u=/ap/20050801/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bba_drugs_palmeiro)

And only weeks after his 3,000th hit. How disappointing.



Canseco's still looking like the only guy telling the truth.

[Hiromi]

The Reds are in the NL Central, pardner.

He was reffering to the fact that they'd been playing NL West teams(Reds have won 5 in a row), the West in general plain sucks right now(the Dbacks lead the league, and they have a .486 record!!!).

Sucks for Palmeiro

I always was a fan of Frank Thomas, wish he hadn't fallen out of popularity, guys one of the better hitters of his generation.

[Deathstroke]

Canseco's still looking like the only guy telling the truth.


There's something you never thought would hold up. Canseco and the truth.

[Punchy]

Canseco's still looking like the only guy telling the truth.
Wanna know the f'ed up thing about it?

Conseco went on the Dan Patrick show the next day and claimed that Palmeiro is clean and has been set up by MLB.

Can you believe this moron? This is one chance for him to be vindicated and for everyone to see that maybe he wasn't lying in his book and he says something stupid like that.

[Dennis K]

It's kind of amazing how MLB handled the Palmiero case, totally different than how the others who were caught got treated.

[Valmore]

Wanna know the f'ed up thing about it?

Conseco went on the Dan Patrick show the next day and claimed that Palmeiro is clean and has been set up by MLB.

Can you believe this moron? This is one chance for him to be vindicated and for everyone to see that maybe he wasn't lying in his book and he says something stupid like that.

And that's because, not only do steroids shrink your nads, they also shrink your brain! Of course, there wasn't much in Jose's head to work with, but somehow, the 'roids made him even dumber!

[Hiromi]

Braves clobbered the Reds tonight, interesting to not that at one poiny all 9 Barves on the field were homegrown, drafted, put through the farm system, and brought up all by the Braves. Thats why we keep winning the division, cause our Farm system friggin rocks.

[Punchy]

Another thought about the Dodgers inaction at the trade deadline. Last year the team was leading the division and DePodiscount traded away two of the team's top players. This year the team is 4 back in a terrible division and he makes no moves.

[hulahulk]

Damn it, I really do not know what to think about the whole thing. I'm pissed off, and I guess I need time to decide whether or not to believe Palmiero over Canseco, etc....

[Valmore]

Damn it, I really do not know what to think about the whole thing. I'm pissed off, and I guess I need time to decide whether or not to believe Palmiero over Canseco, etc....

There's really no need to believe either of them.

I highly doubt Major League Baseball would bother setting up Palmiero to take the fall over steroids.

So, it stands to reason he took steroids, one way or another.

However, I highly doubt it was some "accidental" thing. Much like I don't believe it was "accidental" for Gary Sheffield or Jason Giambi.

[hulahulk]

There's really no need to believe either of them.

I highly doubt Major League Baseball would bother setting up Palmiero to take the fall over steroids.

So, it stands to reason he took steroids, one way or another.

However, I highly doubt it was some "accidental" thing. Much like I don't believe it was "accidental" for Gary Sheffield or Jason Giambi.

Well you're right. They are all idiots, no if's, and's or but's about it. Palmiero lied outright, and schmucks like Sheffield and Giambi are happy with glazed-over, ambiguous speeches that address nothing of consequence. Cheaters and liers.

[Punchy]

Palmeiro tested positve for a very popular steroid (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3857832). It's the same one Ben Johnson was stripped of his gold medal for using.

[Valmore]

Palmeiro tested positve for a very popular steroid (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3857832). It's the same one Ben Johnson was stripped of his gold medal for using.

You mean they haven't come up something that masks your pee from the test for that by now? Or did Raffy just forget to take his?

[Dennis K]

Braves clobbered the Reds tonight, interesting to not that at one poiny all 9 Barves on the field were homegrown, drafted, put through the farm system, and brought up all by the Braves. Thats why we keep winning the division, cause our Farm system friggin rocks.

And yet, for all their regular season success, they kind of have to be considered underachievers in the post season.

[Hiromi]

Teams geared to do well in the regular season sometimes have problems with the post season *shrugs* I look at it if they continue to make the playoff year after year, one year the cards will fall right and they'll win another World Series.

[Deathstroke]

Today's Boston Herald had a story that said former Boston Red Sox, now LA Dodger pitcher Derek Lowe has been caught up in a bit of hanky panky. He has apparently left his wife Trinka to hook up with the host of Dodger Dugout Carolyn Hughes. She's been suspended from her job and they've moved in together.

Guess going out to LA really does drive you insane.

[hulahulk]

Today's Boston Herald had a story that said former Boston Red Sox, now LA Dodger pitcher Derek Lowe has been caught up in a bit of hanky panky. He has apparently left his wife Trinka to hook up with the host of Dodger Dugout Carolyn Hughes. She's been suspended from her job and they've moved in together.

Guess going out to LA really does drive you insane.

Lowe was always foolin' around on his wife in Boston too.

[Punchy]

That story is all you hear about around here. I need to find a pic of her to see how hot she is.

[LtMarvel]

First picture I found..http://www.laobserved.com/images/derekandcarolyn.jpg

What a fun game the Marlins-Cards was last night. A pinch-hit three run home run by So Taguchi (who was being featured by a Japanese media outlet that night) put the Cards up for good. Jim Edmonds had another eye popping catch in the ninth.

I remember that both players signed on with the Cardinals for less money then they would've earned elsewhere....

[Beatnikman]

Somehow, the Colorado Rockies had gone all year, right up to Tuesday night, without winning a road game against a NL West opponent. Enter the once-mighty San Francisco Giants, who propmtly cough up two in a row to the Rockies. The Giants suck so bad.

There was a column in yesterday's SF Chronicle about how much Bonds has sabotaged the franchise, and if they could trade him to an AL team, they definitely should. And I'm pretty well inclined to agree.

I'm pretty ticked off that they didn't sell at the trading deadline. C'mon, somebody must've wanted Vizquel, or Alou, or even J.T. frickin' Snow. But instead, this year they've given up three legitimate pitching prospects and one of the majors' better backup catchers to get Latroy Hawkins and Randy Winn. Joy.



And the Braves minor league system is amazing. Absolutely amazing. During this 10-year run of division titles they've brought in some people from outside, but the majority of the pieces they've built around have been home grown.

Contrast that back with the Giants, whose farm system hasn't produced an every day player in the majors since Bill Mueller, and hasn't produced an all star since Matt Williams, and you understand why they're bad, and getting worse.

[LtMarvel]

The Cardinals are to announce today that they are ending their 60 year relationship with KMOX radio station. The Cards are buying a station in St. Louis and will broadcast their games on that station (and the rest of the radio network). KMOX is a clear channel station (meaning, that if you live inbetween the mountain ranges, you can pick it up on 1120 on the AM dial after dark), so many Cardinal fans will not be able to hear the games anymore without paying for an alternative service.

[Punchy]

I heard that KMOX wanted to pay a lot less for the rights to broadcast games since MLB does not offer station exclusivity in regards to satellite radio. Makes sense to me. Too bad it didn't to the Cards.

[LtMarvel]

Yeah, there were "risk sharing" issues that KMOX was talking about that the Cards wanted nothing to do with.

Interesting, I was watching the local talking heads show and one commentator mentioned that this was just the latest in a string of clear channel radio stations losing baseball broadcasts. MLB loves that satellite radio money, I guess.

[Converge]

The Chicago White Sox are the greatest baseball team of all time.

Prepare yourselves for the dawn of a new baseball dynasty.

I give it a minimum eight-peat.

[Deathstroke]

Lowe was always foolin' around on his wife in Boston too.

Strangely I never heard that, even in the Boston Herald's gossip column which is always running that type of story under the banner Tales Of The Naked City.

[hulahulk]

Strangely I never heard that, even in the Boston Herald's gossip column which is always running that type of story under the banner Tales Of The Naked City.

I heard it from someone who had season tickets and frequently partied post-game in bars around Fenway. He'd see the players out and about. Supposedly Lowe had several "distractions" throughout his time in Boston.

[Beatnikman]

How bad is the NL West? I read this today:

The Rockies' 24-33 mark since June 1 is the best in the NL West

[Hiromi]

How bad is the NL West? I read this today:

Let me put it this way, the first place team(Padres, 53 and 55) would be in last place team in the NL East(Mets are currently last at 54 and 54). And there's no team in the NL West with a winning record AT HOME. No other league in Baseball has more than two teams with home losing records, and a couple don't have any.

[Valmore]

The Chicago White Sox are the greatest baseball team of all time.

Prepare yourselves for the dawn of a new baseball dynasty.

I give it a minimum eight-peat.

I give it a maximum of "Don't Get Past the First Round."

[Deathstroke]

I heard it from someone who had season tickets and frequently partied post-game in bars around Fenway. He'd see the players out and about. Supposedly Lowe had several "distractions" throughout his time in Boston.

Today's Herald had the gossip column detailing the distractions and other things.

[John S Osen]

The Chicago White Sox are the greatest baseball team of all time. Prepare yourselves for the dawn of a new baseball dynasty. I give it a minimum eight-peat.Word------

[Deathstroke]

Word------


More like Bull....

[LtMarvel]

Today's Herald had the gossip column detailing the distractions and other things.
Wow. When Brandon Shannahan slept with a teammate's wife (and got caught), it necessitated a trade. But despite the rumors abound, no St. Louis media reported on the real reason for the very unpopular Shannahan/Pronger trade. Even years later, when Shannahan married that teammate's now ex-wife, there were no mentions of the incident.

I wonder if times have changed or there's a difference between media markets...

[hulahulk]

Today's Herald had the gossip column detailing the distractions and other things.

I'm surprised it took this long.

[Dennis K]

So who thinks Gary Sheffield was really misquoted, and who thinks he's really backpedaling from comments he actually made?

[foxfire]

Just wondering... who is the best offensive force in baseball right now? I was thinking this cause I literally couldnt separate these six guys:

Manny Ramirez
David Ortiz
Alex Rodriguez
Miguel Tejada
Vladimir Guerrero
Albert Pujols

Bonds... uh I dont think hes ever going to be as good as he was. And Derek Lee needs one more season or two.

So what do you guys think? Im not asking about defense or leadership or anything, just who's the best hitter.

[Dennis K]

Just wondering... who is the best offensive force in baseball right now? I was thinking this cause I literally couldnt separate these six guys:

Manny Ramirez
David Ortiz
Alex Rodriguez
Miguel Tejada
Vladimir Guerrero
Albert Pujols

Bonds... uh I dont think hes ever going to be as good as he was. And Derek Lee needs one more season or two.

So what do you guys think? Im not asking about defense or leadership or anything, just who's the best hitter.

I'll take Pujols thank you very much.

[LtMarvel]

When you talk about Puljols, you are talking about a level of production at the start of a career unmatched in the history of MLB.

[foxfire]

Well I guess you can say ARod at age 30 is unmatched in history... but Pujols might overtake him easy.

[Beatnikman]

Just wondering... who is the best offensive force in baseball right now? I was thinking this cause I literally couldnt separate these six guys:

So, you just mean right now, right? Not "which of these guys would you pick to build your team around?" And you don't care about attitude or defense? And no concessions for what position they play? Then I'd rank them this way:
1. Albert Pujols
2. Alex Rodriguez
3. Manny Ramirez
4. Vladimir Guerrero
5. Miguel Tejada
6. David Ortiz

But right now, Derek Lee is the biggest offensive force on the planet.

And he might be even if Bonds wasn't hurt/serving a one-year suspension.

[Punchy]

I'm with Beatnik, if we're talking who the best offensive player is right now, its Derek Lee.

If you're asking which one of those guys I would want on my team I would say Vlad or A-Rod.

[Punchy]

You know baseball season is too long when this thread falls so far off of the front page.

Someone help me out. The trade deadline has come and gone right? So why is there talk about the Sox getting Griffey?

[LtMarvel]

The trade deadline is a soft deadline. Players can still clear waivers (every team will have to pass on them) and then be traded. The Cardinals got Woody Wiliams a few years back that way about two days after the trade deadline.

[hulahulk]

You know baseball season is too long when this thread falls so far off of the front page.

Someone help me out. The trade deadline has come and gone right? So why is there talk about the Sox getting Griffey?

Which Sox? Why have I not been consulted?

[Steve]

Man, what a bizzarre ending to that A's/Angels game yesterday.

And that Carlos Beltran and teammate collision. Ouch!

[thik_3rd]

"But we won and we were just super happy.'' - morgan ensberg

lol, what a dork

[Brian Cronin]

Yeah, that is one of the funnier things about the trade deadline, as teams have until the end of THIS month to pick up someone who cleared waivers.

So a team could easily pick up Griffey if they so choose (as there is no way anyone would touch Griffey on the waiver wire).

-Brian

[Sheldon]

The ChiSox are rumored to be in the hunt for Griffey.
Here's an article (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8829546/) on it.

[hulahulk]

The ChiSox are rumored to be in the hunt for Griffey.
Here's an article (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8829546/) on it.


Oh, thank God. My Bosox have too many "DL" candidates already...

[Deathstroke]

Damn the man!

I'm telling you the Sox have a great 3-4 combo with Big Papi and Manny.

Did you see Ortiz crank the hell out of the ball last night?

[hulahulk]

Damn the man!

I'm telling you the Sox have a great 3-4 combo with Big Papi and Manny.

Did you see Ortiz crank the hell out of the ball last night?

Saw the highlights. He's my favorite in that line-up. No question.

[Deathstroke]

Saw the highlights. He's my favorite in that line-up. No question.

I own two 3 Red Sox shirts.

The Championship one

A white one with the Red Sox in green lettering in the front and the Red sox logo in the middle of a clover.

A Red Player T-shirt. Guess who's number and name is on it?

BIG PAPI!!!!

[hulahulk]

I own two 3 Red Sox shirts.

The Championship one

A white one with the Red Sox in green lettering in the front and the Red sox logo in the middle of a clover.

A Red Player T-shirt. Guess who's number and name is on it?

BIG PAPI!!!!

I also have 3:
"Boston's Believin' Season" WEEI commemorative...
...a general t-shirt with Red Sox on the front...

...and...

...a player T-shirt with #34, Ortiz on the back!

[Valmore]

Saw the highlights. He's my favorite in that line-up. No question.

But what about lead-off man Jesu... I mean Johnny Damon?

I've got two - a grey Red Sox tee my wife bought me while in Maine, and a grey Red Sox road jersey, no name or number.

(Of course, I also have two Patriots jerseys - Grogan and Brady - as well as a tee with the throwback hiking Patriots and a Super Bowl tee... and a Celtics LaFrentz jersey... and a Bruins Thornton jersey...)

[Dennis K]

and a Bruins Thornton jersey...)

Not that alternate/third jersey with the bear's head on it I hope, that thing is fugly.

[Valmore]

Not that alternate/third jersey with the bear's head on it I hope, that thing is fugly.

Hell No! Home jersey with the classic "B" on it.

No way in Hell I'd ever wear that ugly bear abomination.

[foxfire]

Just when you the Nationals have some hope... they get shut out again. At least they're only like a game out of the wild card. John Patterson must be the most frustrated pitcher in baseball. Put him on the Cardinals, or even the Mets, and he's a Cy Young candidate.

[Beatnikman]

I need to make a baseball confession.

In my formative years as a baseball fan, I quickly grew to absolutely hate the "Satan Louis" Cardinals. They were my #2 most hated team. And when I'd hear people on national broadcasts or ESPN or something say they thought St. Louis was America's best baseball town, I couldn't imagine that was possible.

Now, all the things I hated about the Cards are gone (the astro turf, the lineup of switch hitting slap hitters, o. smith, Whitey Herzog's haircut ...), and now they probably aren't even in the top 5 of my most hated teams.

But I've watched most of their games against the Giants the last two days (thankfully I missed the bottom of the 9th yesterday ... I might have broken something or had my head explode), and I've noticed something amazing. At no point during the games have I seen anyone behind home plate, on their cell phone, waving like an idiot to someone they're talking to who's watching on TV. And I can't remember the last time I saw a whole game where that was the case, let alone two!

So, I am ready to agree with the rest of the world and agree that St. Louis may well be the best baseball town in America. Nice work, Cardinals fans!

[foxfire]

If the Cardinals have everyone healthy, they have so much talent that they make everything in the NL outside of Houston's pitching look like a joke.

[foxfire]

Now that Schilling's back in the rotation... can anyone else say repeat :D?

[Brian Cronin]

Not knocking the Red Sox's chances, as they are pretty good, I would agree, but I think it is because of their prodigious offense.

Schilling's return, at the moment, does not seem to be all that, well, impressive.

The guy was woefully inadequate as the closer, so is he really supposed to strike the fear of God in batters as a starter?

I don't buy it.

Although starting him off against KC was a brilliant idea.

-Brian

[foxfire]

Yeah the pitching's definately not that great. They really don't have a postseason rotation like they did last year, with Pedro, Schilling, and Lowe. This year its Schilling, um, Wakefield, and Clement, whos been knocked around a lot lately.

Still, if I'm taking one active pitcher for a postseason game, its Schilling. Even over Pedro and the Big Unit.

[Valmore]

Not knocking the Red Sox's chances, as they are pretty good, I would agree, but I think it is because of their prodigious offense.

Schilling's return, at the moment, does not seem to be all that, well, impressive.

The guy was woefully inadequate as the closer, so is he really supposed to strike the fear of God in batters as a starter?

I don't buy it.

Although starting him off against KC was a brilliant idea.

Schilling's mindset isn't really as a closer. He knew he wasn't going to stay in the bullpen anyway, so he never got that mindset down. He's a guy who needs a lot of warmup, not generally something you get coming out of the bullpen.

However, starting him off against the worst team in the majors is a brilliant move to get him back on track as a starter.

[Ray R.]

Schilling's mindset isn't really as a closer. He knew he wasn't going to stay in the bullpen anyway, so he never got that mindset down. He's a guy who needs a lot of warmup, not generally something you get coming out of the bullpen.

However, starting him off against the worst team in the majors is a brilliant move to get him back on track as a starter.

Yup. Calculated to a t.

I see the Red Sox playoff pitchers (assuming we don't suffer a collapse, always a possibility) as Schilling, Wells, and Clement, with Wakefield or Arroyo playing spot starter and the other helping out in the bullpen (where Wade Miller might also be at playoff time as well). Need Foulke to get back to last year's form, though.....

I'll take that pitching rotation in a seven-game series, and just hope the bats heat up.

[Hiromi]

I am still extremly impressed that no team in the NL East has a record under .500.

[Ray R.]

I am still extremly impressed that no team in the NL East has a record under .500.

Compare it with the National League West (where no team has a .500 record), and quite simply it obviously looks like the worst team in the NL East is better than the best team in the NL West.

Personally, the Nationals, whether they make the Wild Card, or not, have invigorated the entire city and captured the interest of thousands of people who have never even seen a Major League baseball team. I've been in D.C. for 15 years, and it's been a seminal event here, and their play this year has made me a fan for life (even though the Red Sox are my team from birth).

People of Montreal. Thanks. You also deserve to enjoy whatever success this team gets as well.

[hulahulk]

Yup. Calculated to a t.

I see the Red Sox playoff pitchers (assuming we don't suffer a collapse, always a possibility) as Schilling, Wells, and Clement, with Wakefield or Arroyo playing spot starter and the other helping out in the bullpen (where Wade Miller might also be at playoff time as well). Need Foulke to get back to last year's form, though.....

I'll take that pitching rotation in a seven-game series, and just hope the bats heat up.

I agree. The thing about starting vs relieving/closing is that a starter has 5 days to prepare physically, mentally, and intellectually (Schilling does his research on opposing batters). Relievers have very little opportunity to prepare.

It's like comparing distance runners vs sprinters: both work hard, but their disciplines are very different even though they both run.

[foxfire]

Personally, the Nationals, whether they make the Wild Card, or not, have invigorated the entire city and captured the interest of thousands of people who have never even seen a Major League baseball team. I've been in D.C. for 15 years, and it's been a seminal event here, and their play this year has made me a fan for life (even though the Red Sox are my team from birth).


Wow I agree 100%! Too bad a lot of the games arent on tv... grrr... :mad:

[Sheldon]

Funny Quote from Bat-Girl's Minnesota Twins blog (http://www.bat-girl.com/) concerning the pitching gem last night between Johan Santana and Freddy Garcia.
She wrote:

"They were both on.

Perhaps it was the thrill of August baseball. Perhaps Santana and Garcia were responding to Pat Robertson's threats against their president the best way they knew how."

Just thought that was pretty funny....

[foxfire]

Ha! That is really funny. There are a ton of Venusuelan players in baseball... Isnt Bobby Abreu one? At the home run derby I think he hade the Venusuelan flag.

[Dennis K]

Why is it that even when he may have a point, David Wells always comes off as a fat loud-mouthed slob?

[Punchy]

Boy, this thread fell far off of the front page.

I went to the Dodgers/Giants game last night. A good friend of mine has season tickets right behind the Dodger dugout. It was awesome. If you've ever sat in seats like that you know you get free food too. Sweet.

And the game was great. Weaver pitched an okay game until he went out in typical Weaver fashion giving up three runs on two homers and blowing a 5-2 lead. But the Dodgers rallied from being down 3 in the 8th to scoring 3 in the 9th and winning the game. It was great, best game I've ever been too. Its always great going to a Giants/Dodgers game. This game had a real playoff feeling, and let's face it, it's as close to October as either of these teams are going to get.

The best part about it was the Giants wanted Bonds to play last night but they needed to do a simulated game with him during the day before starting him. The Dodgers denied their request because it was team photo day. HA! Giants suck!

[Hiromi]

Any thoughts on this year's MVPs? I for one see Andruw Jones getting the NL. He currently leads the majors in Home Runs, the NL in RBIs, and is a major reason the Braves stand to win the NL East this year.

This year's NL wild card race is insane.

[John S Osen]

Any thoughts on this year's MVPs?Derrek Lee. It's very rare for 1 player to lead MLB in batting average and slugging %. Anyone who thinks he does not deserve it is an idiot.

"Sep 7 Lee celebrated his 30th birthday by going 2-for-5 with two runs and two RBI in the Cubs' 5-2 win over the St. Louis Cardinals Tuesday night, including his 40th home run of the season. He currently leads the majors in hitting (.343) and slugging (.673)."

[Hiromi]

Simply putting up outstanding stats isn't the only consideration for an MVP, the Cubs are still 68 and 71 this year.

[John S Osen]

Simply putting up outstanding stats isn't the only consideration for an MVP, the Cubs are still 68 and 71 this year.You're not a Braves fan. :rolleyes:

[Hiromi]

Just because I'm hugely biased doesn't mean...that came out wrong.

[Punchy]

If Kent had a better BA then I'd say he'd get it in a walk. Can you imagine the Dodgers without him? Sheesh, it would be ugly.

Lee deserves it though I've heard a lot of talk about Pujols getting it this year as a consolation for not getting it last year.

[Dennis K]

I hate the Braves, but Andruw Jones should win MVP.

[Punchy]

waitasec ...

There is a player for Cleveland named Coco Crisp?! That is his actual name? Are you kidding me?!

[Deathstroke]

ESPN has signed a deal to keep baseball on the network through 2013.

[Davideaux]

waitasec ...

There is a player for Cleveland named Coco Crisp?! That is his actual name? Are you kidding me?!

I think Coco is short for something. Get this: he's also got a rap career in the making.

[thik_3rd]

ESPN has signed a deal to keep baseball on the network through 2013.
yeah, but no baseball on memorial, independence or labor day. thats wack.

[Punchy]

I think Coco is short for something. Get this: he's also got a rap career in the making.

Geez, the jokes you could come up with are endless.

[hulahulk]

waitasec ...

There is a player for Cleveland named Coco Crisp?! That is his actual name? Are you kidding me?!


Yes. Even better than Milton Bradley, if you ask me.

[Deathstroke]

History making umpire Charlie Williams has died at the age of 61.

Story Link (http://www.sportingnews.com/baseball/articles/20050916/648472.html)

[IQ!]

Can someone explain to me the implosion of the White Sox? How everything can go sooooo wrong this late in the year boggles the mind. You start September winning all 7 of your games then drop the next 6 out of 7. What on earth is going on? Not to mention Cleveland is now right back in the AL Central race. Forget Wild Card, the way Chicago is playing, they might look at the AL Central crown.

[Brian Cronin]

Well, even when they were playing WELL, all I could think was, "Boy, I'd love to play THEM in the playoffs," as their offense is built around waiting for one of their three home run hitters to hit a home run, and that pitching staff was just WAY too good early in the season.

Cleveland, meanwhile, doesn't have as good of a starting rotation (although it is solid), but their offense is dynamite. 5 guys in a row who can beat you every which way, plus four other guys who do not completely suck.

-Brian

[Brad Curran]

I listen to a lot of ESPN radio on days when I'm commuting to and from school, and I rarely see arguments repeated on every show I listen to during a given day. Yesterday, though, every show I listened to, from Mike and Mike in the Morning on to Amy Lawrence filling in for Eric I can't spell his last name in the afternoon had something about whether David Ortiz's MVP chances were hindered because he's a DH.

The implication I was getting was that he and A-Rod were neck and neck, but Ortiz would probably be considered the outright favorite if he played first base, even if he did it badly. I haven't been paying much attention to the individual statistics at all, so I can't really say. Do you guys think Ortiz's being a DH will be held against him when the votes are tallied? Should it be, or if nothing else, should A-Rod's being a position player give him an advantage? Also, are any of you still reading this?

[Brad Curran]

Yes. Even better than Milton Bradley, if you ask me.

Them playing in the same outfield would be way cooler than Griffey Sr. and Jr. doing the same thing. If they haven't already.

[Brian Cronin]

I think that David Ortiz's position will be seen as a limitation to him, but I do not think it will be a liability in the voting, because the voters will all fall over each other trying to be the one who "makes up" for the "prejudice" against Ortiz due to the DH thing.

In addition, Ortiz has it LOCKED UP.

It doesn't matter that A-Rod is having a better offensive year than he is while also playing a good third base while Ortiz is a DH, the voters hate A-Rod and they love Ortiz, hence Ortiz will get the award.

The NL, though, is much tougher.

Pujols "deserves" it, but he may fall victim to the whole "if your team is really good, you can't be valuable" argument.

-Brian

[Dennis K]

A DH winning the MVP is a joke, but then again the DH is a joke in and of itself.

[Valmore]

I like David Ortiz, but if I had an MVP vote, I wouldn't vote for him, because he doesn't play anywhere the field. I don't hate the DH rule, since I think it's much more interesting to watch pitchers face actual batters rather than pitchers facing pitchers trying awkwardly to bat. Most pitchers suck as batters, even in the NL where there is no DH rule. I just don't think a guy who only bats and does nothing in the field should get MVP consideration.

[Brian Cronin]

I think DHs should win it if they are having a much better offensive year than their closest competitor.

-Brian

[hulahulk]

I think DHs should win it if they are having a much better offensive year than their closest competitor.

-Brian


That's how I feel.

Is Ortiz having a much better year than say ARod or Vlad? Depends on how one looks at it. Great numbers, but more clutch hits for his team, and at the fraction of the cost. MVP = Most Valuable Player. I think some are forgetting the "value" part. And he is still a player.
This does not necessarily mean I think Ortiz will win it (although I'd vote for him). I think Vlad contributes mightily to LAA's success, perhaps moreso than ARod for the Yanks. But I am a wee bit biased when it comes to this sort of thing anyway.

[Valmore]

Okay... why are these teams laying down and dying for the Yankees, yet getting their asses up for the Red Sox? LAY DOWN AND DIE FOR BOSTON ALREADY!

[Brian Cronin]

Not for nothing, Tampa took two out of three against the Yankees IN New York a couple of weeks ago.

What it teaches us is that Tampa just isn't that shitty.

Now, if BALTIMORE gives the Sox some trouble, THEN you have a good beef.

-Brian

[Brian Cronin]

Speaking of laying down, what about Minnesota? For a stretch, they couldn't beat ANYone but the White Sox.

-Brian

[Fabian]

I'm just waiting for the playoffs where my Angels can win it all again

[Valmore]

Not for nothing, Tampa took two out of three against the Yankees IN New York a couple of weeks ago.

What it teaches us is that Tampa just isn't that shitty.

Now, if BALTIMORE gives the Sox some trouble, THEN you have a good beef.

I was thinking more along the lines of Toronto laying down for the Yanks but getting up for the Sox. Stinking Blue Jays.

[hulahulk]

A friend of mine has tickets to the last game of the season at Fenway...against the Yanks. These last few games will be a wild ride.

[Sheldon]

I was thinking more along the lines of Toronto laying down for the Yanks but getting up for the Sox. Stinking Blue Jays.
Yeah its funny, The Jays are have beat up on Boston most of the year, while the Yankees of late have really beat up on them. But until recently the Jays had the best record against AL east teams, I think the Yankees are doing better than them of now.

[IQ!]

And again, the White Sox lose yet another heartbreaker to the Twins while the Indians crush KC. The Sox had SOOOOO many chances to score in the 8th, 9th and 10th but they left all the runners stranded.

History is slowly beginning to look like a reality. The Red Sox showed that 1.5 games means nothing. Ozzie Guillen better start worrying.

[Punchy]

The Angels are on a roll. Hopefully they are hitting their stride and will carry the momentum into the playoffs.

The Dodgers ... well, what can you say?

[Fabian]

The Dodgers ... well, what can you say?
They've made me like $60 in bets at work because I bet against them.

Who could the Angels face if they make the playoffs?

[Davideaux]

Is Palmeiro ratting out Tejada? I hope not, for either of them.

I hate this Palmeiro story. I've always enjoyed his game and now to see him falling into disgrace is really vexing.

[Punchy]

Is Palmeiro ratting out Tejada? yes
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2169007

[Davideaux]

yes
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2169007

Palmeiro's lawyers are denying it though.

[Lone Ranger]

I never thought that I be arguing that a Yankee should be MVP, but I really think it should go to A-Rod.

This guy has had the team on his back the whole year - his stats are awesome. Although I have always supported the notion that a DH can be MVP - I think that Ortiz and A-Rod are close enough statistically that A-Rod's play at 3rd should put him over the top.

Also, I would just like to take this opportunity to say that I really miss Carlos Delgado.

That is all.

[Sheldon]

I was thinking more along the lines of Toronto laying down for the Yanks but getting up for the Sox. Stinking Blue Jays.
Well Valmore, I hope you are happy with how the Jays played the yanks yesterday....

[Valmore]

Well Valmore, I hope you are happy with how the Jays played the yanks yesterday....

Extremely! Now can they do it one more time, please? And then forget how to play for four games after that? ;)

[cable guy]

I never thought that I be arguing that a Yankee should be MVP, but I really think it should go to A-Rod.





A-Rod gets my nod.

[hulahulk]

Bosox/Jays rained out. Doubleheader tomorrow. Yanks are ahead 6-0 over Baltimore right now.
The final 7 games will be interesting. Boston, with the best home record in baseball, is home for all 7. The Yanks are on the road the whole time, finishing up in Boston.
And how about Cleveland?
Very exciting stuff. And the NL has some great scenarios as well.

[cable guy]

Bosox/Jays rained out. Doubleheader tomorrow. Yanks are ahead 6-0 over Baltimore right now.
The final 7 games will be interesting. Boston, with the best home record in baseball, is home for all 7. The Yanks are on the road the whole time, finishing up in Boston.
And how about Cleveland?
Very exciting stuff.

Very exciting stuff all the way around. I am curious about the White-Sox as well.

Last nights Phillies game was exciting, but with a bad finish.

They amost have to win out now.

[Hiromi]

14 consecutive Division Titles! Vwoot!

[Brian Cronin]

You have to like Boston's chances for winning the division.

Odds are, Boston and New York win their next two, and enter the last series tied.

And, AT HOME, who has a better chance of winning?

The Yanks' greatest hope right now is that Tampa plays Cleveland tough and takes 1 of the next 2, and then Chicago sweeps them or something.

-Brian

[Valmore]

You have to like Boston's chances for winning the division.

Odds are, Boston and New York win their next two, and enter the last series tied.

And, AT HOME, who has a better chance of winning?

The Yanks' greatest hope right now is that Tampa plays Cleveland tough and takes 1 of the next 2, and then Chicago sweeps them or something.

Call me a pessimist, but I DON'T like Boston's chances right now. The Blue Jays have been playing Boston tough all year. And really, the Red Sox can't count on the Orioles to whap the crap out of the Yankees again. Thus, I'm almost convinced the final series in Boston will have the Yankees ahead by at least 1 game. And from there? Boston has to take at least two to have any hope.

[Brian Cronin]

Bah.

Boston will beat Toronto twice, most likely and the Yankees will beat Baltimore twice, most likely.

And if you say otherwise, you're a damned, dirty liar!

-Brian

[Valmore]

Bah.

Boston will beat Toronto twice, most likely and the Yankees will beat Baltimore twice, most likely.

And if you say otherwise, you're a damned, dirty liar!

Nope, just realistic. Toronto has been a thorn in Boston's side all year. Baltimore, until last night, was a team continually losing.

My guess is - Yanks win two, but Boston splits, giving the Yanks a 1-game lead heading into the last three in Beantown.

[cable guy]

IMO, Boston is winning the division.

[cable guy]

14 consecutive Division Titles! Vwoot!

It's pretty amazing, actually.

[Sheldon]

Here is an interesting article musing about the possibilty of a 4 way tie in the AL between NY/CHI/BOS/CLE (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/4912800)

Wouldn't that be cool...

[Valmore]

Bah.

Boston will beat Toronto twice, most likely and the Yankees will beat Baltimore twice, most likely.

And if you say otherwise, you're a damned, dirty liar!

I hate to say "I told you so."

Especially in this situation. I hate being right in this situation.

The best the Sox can hope for is Baltimore waking up Thursday and Toronto going to sleep and heading back tied.

And hopefully Cleveland or Chicago loses a bunch, too.

[Brian Cronin]

I dunno about Baltimore "waking up." I mean, they sucked before and they suck now.

But yes, I will admit that I was way off on Boston's chances of winning a series against the Blue Jays.

-Brian

[hulahulk]

Well, the three biggest days are here for Yankee fans and Red Sox Nation. Going to be interesting, with both teams demonstrating this year that:


They can win despite injuries and turmoil
They each have an MVP candidate hoisting them on their shoulders
They know more than any other team what is at stake
In regards to the MVP ballot, I would love to see Ortiz get it, but all things considered, ARod will probably get it. Of course, there is an argument that the name of the award should be changed to Most Essential Player, or Most Irreplaceable Player. "Valuable" can be seen as most bang for the buck (Ortiz's $2-3 million per year vs ARod's $25 million per year). I realize the award has nothing to do with contracts; it's all about the stats. And ARod certainly has been tough at 3rd base, while Ortiz DH's. But they are getting paid to put up those stats. Who would you rather have: a guy who does it for $25 million (no other team can even afford him), or a guy who can do the same thing for ONE TENTH the cost? Just food for thought.
Yes, like I said before, I know I'm biased. So I certainly can see the other viewpoints.

[Valmore]

Gads, Boston needs to take at least 2 to even have a prayer.

[Ray R.]

Gads, Boston needs to take at least 2 to even have a prayer.

You said it. My acid reflux is intense right now. I don't want to watch, but I can't turn away......

Red Sox Nation should be collectively buying Tums stock right now.

I see we got Mike Stanton from the Nationals, hope he can shore up the 'pen, but we still need to get the goddamn bats going.....

[Valmore]

I think it's safe to assume that Yankees fans and Red Sox fans agree on one thing right now:

"Please Chicago, don't tank the series against Cleveland. Sweep them!"

[hulahulk]

Wells, Wells, Wells. We did all right.

[Valmore]

Wells, Wells, Wells. We did all right.

I'd like to personally thank the Chicago White Sox for not giving up and tanking the series against Cleveland.

[Brian Cronin]

Ozzie Guillen is a big fat liar.

Not only THAT, but he is delusional.

Ozzie, while it would be irritating, no one would REALLY care much if you DID rest your starters, but you SPECIFICALLY said that you WEREN'T going to rest your starters!!!

And now, after the game, he gets mad at people for complaining about him resting his starters.

-Brian

[Brian Cronin]

By the by, the best possible scenario would be, of course, Mike Stanton being brought in during the top of the 8th to face a pinch-hitting Mark Bellhorn.

Then, in the bottom of the 8th, Alan Embree being brought in to face John Olerud.

-Brian

[Dennis K]

This is when baseball is soooooooooooooooo good.

[hulahulk]

By the by, the best possible scenario would be, of course, Mike Stanton being brought in during the top of the 8th to face a pinch-hitting Mark Bellhorn.

Then, in the bottom of the 8th, Alan Embree being brought in to face John Olerud.

-Brian

Would this be after Ortiz ties it with a homer (after ARod hitting a go-ahead homer in an earlier inning)?:D

[hulahulk]

And in news surely to eclipse everything else in importance this weekend, Lou Pinella agreed to a buy-out of his contract with Tampa Bay.

[hulahulk]

I should note that David Ortiz is making $4.7 million per year, not the $2-3 million I thought earlier. But in 2003, his salary was barely over $1 million.

[Valmore]

Well, there goes the A.L. East... as usual. At least the BoSox are still in the Wild Cadr driver's seat.

[hulahulk]

Well, there goes the A.L. East... as usual. At least the BoSox are still in the Wild Cadr driver's seat.

What's that, like 8 in a row for NY?

[Dennis K]

So if the Red Sox lose tomorrow and the Indians win, then the Red Sox miss the playoff altogether?

[hulahulk]

So if the Red Sox lose tomorrow and the Indians win, then the Red Sox miss the playoff altogether?

I believe they would play a one game deal on Monday. Can't remember if it would be at Boston or at Cleveland though.

[Valmore]

So if the Red Sox lose tomorrow and the Indians win, then the Red Sox miss the playoff altogether?

No, they play a one-win-for-the-wild-card game at Fenway on Monday if the BoSox lose and Cleveland wins.