The Shi'ar - Out of Place? [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

Zeta

07-14-2005, 12:46 AM

milhouse123321

07-14-2005, 01:05 AM

I dont really have much to say, but I agree with you, I dont like many aliens i the Marvel U, and Im not really a fan of any of their 'cosmic' characters.
So yeah...

Huzzah!

07-14-2005, 01:09 AM

i hate all mutant in space stories

But taht being said Corsair came from that...so they cant all be bad.

Brian M.

07-14-2005, 01:26 AM

I think if done right they can have a good influence on the story. Look at the Phoenix Saga and the Dark Phoenix Saga. What would that be like w/o the Shi'ar?

Zeta

07-14-2005, 02:11 AM

I think if done right they can have a good influence on the story. Look at the Phoenix Saga and the Dark Phoenix Saga. What would that be like w/o the Shi'ar?

I think it actually would've been more touching, relevant, and well - more "down to earth" if Dark Pheonix had toasted a major American city instead of a planet. True, that's nerfing her abilities a bit. But the Dark Pheonix saga was a little too grand for my tastes.

Yes, yes - I know, blasphemy. But I'd feel more sympathy for the city of say, Philidelphia or something getting blowed up by Jean than a planet of nameless aliens.

Blackcat

07-14-2005, 04:04 AM

i hate all mutant in space stories

But taht being said Corsair came from that...so they cant all be bad.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

WHAT??? I love them!

Tenebrae

07-14-2005, 05:16 AM

I think its always interesting to see any character taken out of their natural environment and forced to deal with something beyond their normal scope. The Shi'ar provide ample opportunity for that to be done with the X-Men and some great stories have resulted from it.

I agree that the Shi'ar (and the Savage Land and Mojoworld and the Brood etc) don't fit in with the X-Men's general theme and reason for being but beyond the team's struggle for peaceful co-existence between mutants and humans, the X-Men comics are about the characters. If taking them off into space to fight the Imperial Guard lets us see a different side of them or even just keeps the comic from becoming stale or samey, then I'm all for it.

TinMan

07-14-2005, 06:23 AM

I agree with you Zeta, I've never enjoyed all of the outer space crap they've done. It just doesn't fit the characters, I can see the Fantastic Four going into space, and maybe the Avengers, but it just doesn't fit the X-Men.

On a second note though, I don't mind the Brood so much out of all of the different alien races the muties have dealt, because they were and always have been an immediate threat to earth (and those stories usually took place ON earth). When it comes to the context of earth being threatened, then I can deal with some aliens, but when its just kind of random and forced to take a trip to space (i.e. the x-men having to save the shi'ar, circa late nineties) I don't even care to read it.

fishtaco

07-14-2005, 01:33 PM

In order to establish coexistance on a world, there needs to be a world to establish co-existance. More than once, the X-men have had to deal with Shiar matters that involve the fate of the world. It has also become part of their responsibility from the moment Xavier "met" Lilandra in Uncanny X-men 97.

Babylon23

07-14-2005, 05:33 PM

I tend to agree with Tenebrae. If the X-Man focused entirely on earth-based social and political matters, the book would grow stale. Sometimes removing characters from their natural environment freshens things up.

Also, the X-Man have a long history of dealing with such matters. They journeyed to the Savage Land and battled the Stranger in their first 11 issues. Although the global politics and human issues are always present, the X-Men has always been a superhero book.

Also, the Shiar Empire has been included in some classic stories in the past, including their initial appearance, the Dark Phoenix Saga, and the original Brood story.

The Marvel universe is a vast and wondrous place, filled with alternate dimensions, galactic empire, hidden cities and lands, etc. I don't see why any writer producing superhero comics would want to limit themselves to 1 type of story when they have so many options available to them.

ibrakeforchinwe

07-14-2005, 05:40 PM

I LOVE THE SHI'AR!!

Don't diss the Shi'ar, they have Shi'ar technology that can kick your ***. The Shi'ar are the coolest out there. Of course the Shi'ar encompases quite alot of races, but I love them all.

Asian Knight

07-14-2005, 05:40 PM

i hate all mutant in space stories

But taht being said Corsair came from that...so they cant all be bad.

Don't forget about Hepzibah, Raza & Ch'od.

Huzzah!

07-14-2005, 05:55 PM

Gotta love Corsairs catwoman hallucinigene secreating girlfriend Hepzibah

Deus ex Chris

07-14-2005, 08:51 PM

I agree that the Shi'ar are out of place in regards to the X-Men, but I think the Shi'ar as a concept is great. I'd like to see that concept explored on its own or in the Fantastic Four or the Avengers, where alien mega empires don't undermine the major themes.

Shellhead

07-15-2005, 12:18 PM

Gotta love Corsairs catwoman hallucinigene secreating girlfriend Hepzibah

Look again, she's obviously a skunkwoman.

It would be a mistake to banish the Sh'iar from the X-comics. Too much focus on mutant-hatred has nearly banished the X-titles from the Marvel Universe, leading them down into a creative deadend. Rather than subtracting another element for X-writers to work with, why not find a way to address a new theme, or even the old mutant-hating theme, using the Sh'iar as foils or allies? Are there Sh'iar mutants? If so, there's the tie-in. If not, why not? Were they exterminated? Is mutation a particularly human development? What is the source of the super-powers displayed in the various members of the Imperial Guard? etc.

Dussan

07-15-2005, 12:45 PM

Favorite Shi'ar story is the one with the War Skrull controlling Proff X and luring the X-Men to the Shi'Ar galaxy.

Kicked ass watching Charles own the entire Imperial Guard.

Huzzah!

07-15-2005, 04:06 PM

Nah

Hepzibah is a catwoman. This is one of those peppy la pu situations

venuscameback

07-15-2005, 07:54 PM

While I've enjoyed several Shi'ar stories, I agree that space opera plots haven't tended to suit the X-Men. including far more than the Shi'ar.

That said I'm all for mixing it up - sometimes writers and editors don't really know what will work (or not) until it's on the printed page. I've no problem with reading occasional outer space orientated stories. and I like the Imperial Guard and Shi'ar in general - just not necessarily in the pages of the X-Men

which is kinda weird given how pivotal they are to the DP Saga. It's hard to imagine that tale without the Shi'ar.

The Inhumans on the other hand ... given their self-enforced exile, i think there's plenty of room for interesting stories to come up in X-Men comics involving them.

venus

Zero Hunter

07-16-2005, 01:36 PM

I like it the X-Men have to deal with problems other than just home issues. The Dark Phoenix Saga, the Brood Saga, and the Shiar/WarSkrulls story are all good examples of it being done right.

On the other hand a bad story is going to suck if it is set in the Shiar galaxy or in New York, and that unfortunettly is what happens alot of the time when the X-men have to deal with stuff in space.

karasu

07-16-2005, 01:56 PM

Pfft, I think what's out of place is the humans hatred of mutants. How can they hate mutants, but accept The Fantastic Four, Spiderman, and The Avengers? The end result is the same, superpowers! They only hate people who got Superpowers a certainw ay? @_@ Ack, but I digress. The Shi'ar thing is definitely strange, but i dig it. if anything it serves to show that in the grand scheme of things, mutants are still humans. They aren't aliens from some other world. if anything would bring about unity, you think it'd be something like first contact.

methanolcereal

07-17-2005, 12:43 AM

I personally, believe that the brood, the Shi'Ar, Mojo, and a lot of the extra dimensional stuff is a bit out of place with the X-Men. I liked how Grant Morrison attempted to break some of the ties with the Shi'ar and stuff during his run. I too think the focus of the X-Books should be a bit more down to earth as opposed to flying around in space blasting aliens and stuff.

Aaron King

07-17-2005, 02:57 AM

To me, the Shi'ar present a big huge galactic empire, and the group that we normally see (Lilandra, Gladiator, etc.) are a little team, assembled from all sorts of planets to present a unified face, play politics, and keep order and protect the unity of the empire... sort of like the X-Men have been assembled from all walks of life, present the idea of "good mutants," and, if needed, fight for mutant rights. As above, so below.

cable guy

07-17-2005, 03:23 PM

I dont really have much to say, but I agree with you, I dont like many aliens i the Marvel U, and Im not really a fan of any of their 'cosmic' characters.
So yeah...

I agree with you.

cable guy

07-17-2005, 03:26 PM

i hate all mutant in space stories

I also agree here, sorry but I don't have much to say on it either.

I don't have much to say about anything though. ;)

Shellhead

07-18-2005, 04:04 PM

How many decent monthly X-titles can Marvel publish if they are restricted to the narrow topic of anti-mutant bigotry? It would be seriously boring if every issue of every X-title kept the heroes in the mansion all the time. They can only spend so much time in the Danger Room, or sitting around expressing teen mutant angst, or trading partners. The writers should be free to explore other ideas, as long as they result in good stories.

Vegetarian Goat

07-18-2005, 04:40 PM

Here's why i don't think the Shi'ar are out of place at all-

With X-Men, the majority of the topics being discussed are sociological issues: How does the greater society react to this one, particular group?

The stories presented in X-Men are varied enough that we get to see different sides of this cultural examination, in that we have Mutants ranging from all points of history, all ages, all backgrounds, all ethnicites... any one of these elements can be optioned for a story. But because we, as readers, are familiar (to an extent) with the majority of these elements, it all contributes to a familiar feel. In a sense, no matter where they go, or what kind of bigotry they encounter, The X-Men have their bases covered.

Now, if you were to suddenly remove the X-Men from that comfort zone, and expose them to a completely ALIEN set of sociological standards and practices, then it literally becomes a whole new world. Anything could happen, and the X-Men (and the readers) are perpetually caught off guard.

The Shi'ar, Brood, Kree, Skrull, Titans, etc. give the writers to explore any aspect of humanity, (or inhumanity) they can imagine, and give a fresh perspective to the X-Men, and their earthly woes.

Azure

11-19-2009, 09:04 AM

Should the Shi'ar be wiped out from existence??

Talisman

11-19-2009, 09:07 AM

Should the Shi'ar be wiped out from existence??

http://dylan.bouterse.com/pictures/randomness/Signs-point-to-yes-.jpg

PsylockeSpears

11-19-2009, 09:23 AM

Talisman

11-19-2009, 09:25 AM

Hepzibah. :) without aliens and space we wouldnt have her.which would be an injustice lol.

Dark phoenix and the whole mythos surronding it is worth the shiar alone.If its handeled properly its cool,like everything in comics.

aswell we wouldnt have lockheed
Lockheed's not Shi'ar. Besides, all you have to do is insert random non-boring alien race in place of the Shi'ar.

jarrod

11-19-2009, 09:27 AM

Man, I miss Huzzah!, ibrakeforchinwe and fishtaco. I never see Vegetarian Goat anymore either. Ancient thread bumps are so depressing. :/

jarrod

11-19-2009, 09:28 AM

Should the Shi'ar be wiped out from existence??
Rachel's doing her part. <3 <3

Rev. Calibos

11-19-2009, 09:35 AM

I gotta say, there have always been two concepts n the comics that I've absolutely detested.

1) Secondary Mutations (but everyone's listed the problems with that already)

And

2) The Shi'ar.

I mean, is it just me, or are the Shi'ar totally out of place in the X-men, when you consider the theme? So much of the X-men is based on global politics and human problems, that it seems a bit weird to suddenly pluck the characters in the middle of intergalactic warfare. If anything, it kind of dilutes the rest of the stories by making the problems on earth seem insignificant in comparison.

Also, I think it's kind of out of place. I mean, humans are worried about mutants because of how different they are. Wouldn't you think they'd be more upset about the - you know, aliens? The discovery of aliens would make genetic superhumans seem kind of dull in comparison.

I just thought it didn't fit, and was kind of bizarre. And I was annoyed by how much they wore focused on for so long. X-men doesn't work as a space opera. It's kind of like having Spider-man fight demons from Hell, or having Batman regularly interact with werewolves or something. It just doesn't mesh well.

Any other thoughts on this?

I've always liked the concept of the Shi'ar and thought it was a unique way to give the X-Men their first cosmic level, Universe at stake sort of conflict.

To me at least those sorts of stories for the X-Men are necessary as you can't have them dealing with Mutant rights issues or Mutant terrorism every issue. They're a part of the Marvel U. and I think it's necessary every once in awhile to take a step back and give them something else to do.

A big space opera may not be what they're generally suited for but it made for a hell of a story.

As far as folks not flipping out over aliens as much as they would with mutants I think it boils down to location. Aliens, sure, they're a threat and they're unknown and all but they're, what, lightyears away?

Mutants can be right next door to some of these folks. They're worried about aliens, sure, but at this point they're aren't any aliens in their neighborhood, attending their church, going to school with their kids, etc.

Azure

11-19-2009, 09:37 AM

Rachel's doing her part. <3 <3

Do you think that killing off the entirety of the Shi'ar will redeem Rachel in the eyes of CBR?

KiplingKat

11-19-2009, 09:37 AM

I don't mind the occasional foray into space. It's an easy way to take a break from "the world that hates and fears them" theme.

But the Shi'ar have gotten to the point that they drive me nuts. First they just sit there and take with all the infighting and insanity in the Neramani clan, and then they bow to a crazed emo teen from from another planet? Why haven't they just kicked out the monarchy all together and ruled themselves?

There reaches a point where a (fictional) society makes so many bad decisions, it is not worth saving. The X-Men just need to write the Shi'ar off, let the Birdy people get themselves out of their own messes. Find some other reason to go into space.

Talisman

11-19-2009, 09:38 AM

Do you think that killing off the entirety of the Shi'ar will redeem Rachel in the eyes of CBR?
Couldn't hurt. It made me appreciate what she does for fans everywhere.

jarrod

11-19-2009, 09:42 AM

Do you think that killing off the entirety of the Shi'ar will redeem Rachel in the eyes of CBR?
Jean is to Broccoli as Rachel is to Chicken.

Talisman

11-19-2009, 09:44 AM

Jean is to Broccoli as Rachel is to Chicken.
They should cook together more often. Chicken and broccoli taste delicious together.

jarrod

11-19-2009, 09:45 AM

They should cook together more often. Chicken and broccoli taste delicious together.
They could have a Food Network Show! Live from the WHR.

Talisman

11-19-2009, 09:47 AM

They could have a Food Network Show! Live from the WHR.
Instead of At home with the Neeley's, we'd have At psionically discorporated dimensions with the Grey's.

jarrod

11-19-2009, 09:54 AM

Instead of At home with the Neeley's, we'd have At psionically discorporated dimensions with the Grey's.
Awesome.

I still want to see The View from the WHR though, starring Jean, Rachel, Maddie, Nate, Nathan and special guest Stryfe.

Talisman

11-19-2009, 09:58 AM

Awesome.

I still want to see The View from the WHR though, starring Jean, Rachel, Maddie, Nate, Nathan and special guest Stryfe.

Sara Grey is the Ellen of that group. She's obv. the most fun.

Pixie_Solanas

11-19-2009, 10:10 AM

Couldn't hurt. It made me appreciate what she does for fans everywhere.

Err, NO!

I love the Shi'ar, especially that hot mess Cal'syee Neremani.

Talisman

11-19-2009, 10:20 AM

Err, NO!

I love the Shi'ar, especially that hot mess Cal'syee Neremani.
She is the Diana Ross of the Shi'ar. it's time for Cal'syee to shake the rest of those bitches off faster than you can say The Boss.

jarrod

11-19-2009, 10:54 AM

Err, NO!

I love the Shi'ar, especially that hot mess Cal'syee Neremani.
Deathbird's the only one worth sparing. Though he was better when she was banging Bishop and hanging with Lila.

The Black Guardian

11-19-2009, 01:14 PM

I doubt I would have stuck with the X-Men as long as I have without the Shi'ar. Other than being feared and hated by most humans, the X-Men were never intended to be much different from the Avengers.

Pixie_Solanas

11-19-2009, 01:16 PM

Deathbird's the only one worth sparing. Though he was better when she was banging Bishop and hanging with Lila.

Egads, that Bishop-Deathbird abomination is so non-canon.

Alphaxman

11-19-2009, 01:38 PM

ZNOP

11-19-2009, 08:42 PM

I love the Space Operas the X-Men get themselves into. My first X-Men book I ever read was issue 165 (the Brood Saga) with Storm on the Cover. It was the character I fell in love with, not the concept. Their Super Heroes after all.

I actually like the Space & Magic stuff more than the Human hate mess.

If you have a inclination, or pleasure for metaphors -- it's the concept, if not... What team or group, mutant or otherwise hasn't been to space to fight off or with some extraterrestrial? Hell, even Power Pack has been in a space war of sorts.

InSovietRussia

11-19-2009, 08:45 PM

I doubt I would have stuck with the X-Men as long as I have without the Shi'ar. Other than being feared and hated by most humans, the X-Men were never intended to be much different from the Avengers.

Bingo. For this same reason, I love X-Men in space stories. Switching environments gets them out of their "oh, I'm so oppressed" rut. Even Whedon's last run on the title with the giant apocalyptic bullet wasn't half bad. Speaking of which, did they ever get Kitty back or is she still rocketing through space somewhere?

Prodigy55

11-19-2009, 08:46 PM

Don't forget D'Ken, he is also awesome. I like the Shi'ar, they are better than the Skrulls and the Kree IMO.

ZNOP

11-19-2009, 08:55 PM

Don't forget D'Ken, he is also awesome. I like the Shi'ar, they are better than the Skrulls and the Kree IMO.

Ah, yes D'Ken the only being to crash the gates of the WHR. No powers, no army, just himself... How did he do it:wink:

jarrod

11-20-2009, 07:14 AM

Egads, that Bishop-Deathbird abomination is so non-canon.
They had a child together. Srsly.

wayfarejourneyman

11-20-2009, 08:44 AM

I love the bird-folk, and I love the fact that they appeared pretty much as an inter-stellar romance between Lilandra and Charles.

The alien aspect works for the X-Men, I think. Unable to find solace on earth, a space-spanning empire would have made for an excellent future for the X-Men.

Goshin

11-20-2009, 09:01 AM

Is it true Lilandra's dead now? I wanna see a scan I didn't know.... :(

Askani's Flame

11-20-2009, 09:40 AM

Is it true Lilandra's dead now? I wanna see a scan I didn't know.... :(

Yup. Dead as a bird being shot by a bebe gun. Deathbird is currently in a medically induced coma as they try to repair her from Lilandra impaling her. D'ken is dead.

Pixie_Solanas

11-20-2009, 09:50 AM

They had a child together. Srsly.

The End is lighthearted what-if? fare.

Besides, "aliyah"? rotflol. "Rock the Boat".

jarrod

11-20-2009, 09:55 AM

The End is lighthearted what-if? fare.

Besides, "aliyah"? rotflol. "Rock the Boat".
But it was "in-continuity" for all events before Morrison's finale. That makes Bishop impregging Deathbird and Sinsiter/Cyclops loveclone Gambit canon.

jarrod

11-20-2009, 09:56 AM

Is it true Lilandra's dead now? I wanna see a scan I didn't know.... :(
Rachel "accidentally" pushed her into a laser. It was AWESOME.

God I H8 Lil. How can she and BD be related?

Pixie_Solanas

11-20-2009, 10:21 AM

Rachel "accidentally" pushed her into a laser. It was AWESOME.

God I H8 Lil. How can she and BD be related?

War of Kings was great. I just bought the hardcover collection.

lol @ rachel bumbling into Lil, throwing her into the path of an oncoming laser. pratfalls never end around that broad.

Yogaflame

11-22-2009, 01:44 PM

I mean, is it just me, or are the Shi'ar totally out of place in the X-men, when you consider the theme? So much of the X-men is based on global politics and human problems, that it seems a bit weird to suddenly pluck the characters in the middle of intergalactic warfare. If anything, it kind of dilutes the rest of the stories by making the problems on earth seem insignificant in comparison.

Also, I think it's kind of out of place. I mean, humans are worried about mutants because of how different they are. Wouldn't you think they'd be more upset about the - you know, aliens? The discovery of aliens would make genetic superhumans seem kind of dull in comparison.

I see your points, but I have the opposite appreciation of them. Having an alien species reinforces the natural quality of mutants: of course there should be mutants, life takes infinite forms. Yes, that does highlight the futility of intraspecies conflict and discrimination(think about what Ozymandias did at the end of Watchmen(the graphic novel, not movie) to create world peace), but that's the point of X-Men: humans reaction is based on fear and ignorance and hatred.

And inter-galactic space operas, instead of diminishing Earth based conflicts, they show how important they are. In the vastness of space, there is so much happening, on this world there are insect ppl, on this one the crystals speak, on this one the blue reptoids rule, on this one the grass and trees live in perfect harmony with the whale-lions, etc etc. There is a huge wide tapestry out there, but each strand and each stitch contributes to the integrity and design of the whole.

Zero Hunter

11-22-2009, 02:53 PM

Is it true Lilandra's dead now? I wanna see a scan I didn't know.... :(

Not only is she dead but the one who killed her was Darkhawk. Ok technichaly he was not the one in control of his armor at the time, but he did get blammed for it and is now the the most wanted fugitve in the Shiar Empire. That and the Inhumans are now in charge of the Shiar after winning their war. Gladiator was forced to take on the role of leader of the Shiar with Dken, Lilandra, and Vulcan all dead (or presumed dead), but he has to answer to the Inhumans. It has not been a good year for the featherheads.