Would Sage have worked if she hadn't been Tessa?

[Tenebrae]

Some of the talk in the Thunderbird III thread got me thinking about Sage. She (along with Emma) is one of the few new members of the X-Men who has stuck in recent years. She may not be with the team currently, but she served with them for some time and there isn't a sense that she's likely to disappear into limbo and never be seen prominently again, as there is with characters like Lifeguard and Cecilia Reyes. She feels, I think, like a real X-Man.

So, it can be said that Sage is a success and, on the surface, you could argue that this is because she already had a history in the X-world as Tessa, Xavier's spy in the Hellfire Club. However, she was by no means a major character before joining the team as Sage and received little serious character development as Tessa. It strikes me that Sage works as an X-Man because she has a strong personality, unusual powers, and has developed interesting relationships with other X-Men that are unconnected to her past and, I think, that's the reason she's a success as a character.

So, do you think I'm right? And therefore does that mean that new characters can be introduced into the X-Men successfully and that the Thunderbird III/Lifeguard/Slipstream/Maggot etc pattern of new characters failing is just coincidence? Or do you disagree? Would we have been accepting of Sage if we didn't already know her as Tessa?

[mattbib]

I agree that without the Tessa backstory that Sage, like so many other new X-Men, would likely have not lasted.

[chicainery]

I agree that without the Tessa backstory that Sage, like so many other new X-Men, would likely have not lasted.

d.i.t.t.o

It's more of an "oh, I recognize her!" moment than a "hey, this new guy/girl sucks, they're trying too hard" moment.

[milhouse123321]

Can't really comment, I HATE Sage.
My least fav X character EVER.

[North]

while it wasnt also being new that killed off lifeguard/slipstream/maggots time

they kind of sucked

And yeah Sages past history with the Xers did make her a lot ooler to have in the teams.

Who was the last new charcter to be made a regular member anyways?

[MrBiggs7]

Yes Sage would have worked if she wasn't Tessa first. She was thrown into a situation where she was given a more important role. Slipstream/Lifeguard/Maggot were just role players there for firepower or just for that one story-arc.

[Blackcat]

while it wasnt also being new that killed off lifeguard/slipstream/maggots time

they kind of sucked

And yeah Sages past history with the Xers did make her a lot ooler to have in the teams.

Who was the last new charcter to be made a regular member anyways?

To be honest I think she was accepted by the fans because they knew her and she had a long history. She wasn't a 'major character' she was a sidekick of Shaw, but never had a big role on Hellfire Club. You could compare her to Ms. Locke (Artcade) or Lian Chen (Shadow King).

I thought it was a great thing when they gave her a totally new role and a long history in X-Treme. Because they did this, I think most fans excepted her as 'a member of the family'.

Other characters that get introduced always seem to have to prove themselves over and over again before most fans 'accept' them. Come on guys, you have to give them a change. When a wrtiter doesn't develop a character good enough, maybe another writer will do a better job later on.

Sage is a 'frontline' character. T-Bird, Slipstream, Maggot etc are more 'sidecharacters'', like Dazzler and Longshot once were.

Cecilia and Marrow are more developed characters now and I like both. To me it seems a new character barely get a change from the fans nowadays. The 3 X-Treme characters just need some more time, but at least give them that time/ change.

[darknessatnoon]

I'm just really glad that CC "gave Tessa a chance." In my mind, she has a lot of potential.

[claimtosubclaim]

I'm just really glad that CC "gave Tessa a chance." In my mind, she has a lot of potential.


Um, didn't Claremont create her? It's not like she was a pre-existing character who went into limbo, and CC dusted her off and gave her a second lease at life. That being said, every character has a lot of potential.

[darknessatnoon]

Um, didn't Claremont create her? It's not like she was a pre-existing character who went into limbo, and CC dusted her off and gave her a second lease at life. That being said, every character has a lot of potential.

CC created Tessa? I did not know that!

I am thanking The Creator for creating her and for giving her a new, prominent, role.

[Matthew K.]

Who's to say she really worked, or is working. She's sticking around, yes, but only through Claremont's pen.

Tessa wasn't a bad character...more like wallpaper or something lacking definition and spark though, and when Sage really came out in the early X-Treme issues (and some previous X-Men issues) I thought she kind of neat...but then CC really overdid the Mary Sue factor and Sage become overkill, and easy to joke about.

Not to say that her, or some other character like Davis Cameron, cannot be salvaged by another writer in the future, though.

[darknessatnoon]

Who's to say she really worked, or is working. She's sticking around, yes, but only through Claremont's pen.

Tessa wasn't a bad character...more like wallpaper or something lacking definition and spark though, and when Sage really came out in the early X-Treme issues (and some previous X-Men issues) I thought she kind of neat...but then CC really overdid the Mary Sue factor and Sage become overkill, and easy to joke about.

Not to say that her, or some other character like Davis Cameron, cannot be salvaged by another writer in the future, though.

I think Sage works. "Buzz" might have quieted a bit during New Excalibur, however, I think Sage has found her second wind in New Exiles.

[emmabe]

I think Matthew raises an interesting point... Sage has the interest of CC so she stays around. Ceclia Reyes has quite a fan following but because no writer has plans/ an interest in the character, she doesn't get written and has fallen into limbo.

Doesn't having a writer's interest factor into the staying power of the character? Wolverine would not have risen to the upper echelon of Marvel if not for Byrne's interest as a co-plotter with Claremont.

[darknessatnoon]

I think Matthew raises an interesting point... Sage has the interest of CC so she stays around. Ceclia Reyes has quite a fan following but because no writer has plans/ an interest in the character, she doesn't get written and has fallen into limbo.

Doesn't having a writer's interest factor into the staying power of the character? Wolverine would not have risen to the upper echelon of Marvel if not for Byrne's interest as a co-plotter with Claremont.

Sure,

of course, writer interest makes a difference. But Cecelia Reyes is dead. Sage isn't.

[jarrod]

Claremont wanted to use Cece in Uncanny too btw, he wasn't allowed.

[MuhollandDriver]

It seems that new X-Men members often fall into limbo.

Gambit seems to have stuck. Who else?

i really wish that some students from the junior teams...especially the New Mutants..would get a shot over some character that goes to limbo after three arcs.

[Monty_Cristo]

does Sage work? i only like Tessa.

[Slung]

Sage would not have worked if she was not Tessa. She would be a homeless bag lady asking for handouts on 7th and Juniper. She may even have been killed by Lois London. People who do not work should at least try the fast food industry, but Sage (without Tessa's humanity) was too proud to work. And lazy.

[Petes Pants]

Sage has birds flying out of her hooha.

I wouldn't say she "worked".

[darknessatnoon]

Sage has birds flying out of her hooha.

I wouldn't say she "worked".

I don't think people who make erotophobic statements like that are equipped to truly understand Sage's wild side. Sage is a character who appeals to the mature reader.

[Petes Pants]

Yeah ok. I'm sure that's it.

[darknessatnoon]

Yeah ok. I'm sure that's it.

Then we're agreed because I'm sure it is, too.

[Petes Pants]

Oh wait. I was in the bathtub pleasuring myself and wasn't really paying attention.

You're wrong.

[Monty_Cristo]

Oh wait. I was in the bathtub pleasuring myself and wasn't really paying attention.

You're wrong.

did rubber duckies fly out of your hoo hah? :)

[Petes Pants]

Yes. Would you like to play football with them?

[Monty_Cristo]

Yes. Would you like to play football with them?

sure. as long as it's not touch-football.

[emmabe]

Sure,

of course, writer interest makes a difference. But Cecelia Reyes is dead. Sage isn't.


Wait, I thought the Weapon X issue was inconclusive. Didn't they say confirm she's not dead in an X-Position here?

[HeckBoy]

When I picked up X-treme X-Men way back when, Sage's character really confused me. I didn't really know who she was or her past b/c they kinda just threw her into it w/ very little explanation (only hints). That being said, I thought she actually was a new character. Back then in the early issues I thought she was alright, but I think her becoming a Mary-Sue really turned me off on her. And since Claremont's the only one that seems to write her, I don't think we'll be getting another interpretation any time soon (or ever, since that characterization of her will stick now).

[darknessatnoon]

Wait, I thought the Weapon X issue was inconclusive. Didn't they say confirm she's not dead in an X-Position here?

No clue. But I need to see it on a comic page.

When I picked up X-treme X-Men way back when, Sage's character really confused me. I didn't really know who she was or her past b/c they kinda just threw her into it w/ very little explanation (only hints). That being said, I thought she actually was a new character. Back then in the early issues I thought she was alright, but I think her becoming a Mary-Sue really turned me off on her. And since Claremont's the only one that seems to write her, I don't think we'll be getting another interpretation any time soon (or ever, since that characterization of her will stick now).

I do not know who Mary Sue is. I think Sage's first name is Tessa. Her last name hasn't been revealed.

[just another user]

CC has commented on Sage's Welsh ancestry. Tessa's last name is Gywn, and she is the mother of Pixie. Her husband died in a mining accident as revealed in the forthcoming "X Men - Free Comic Book Day" comic.

[HeckBoy]

I do not know who Mary Sue is. I think Sage's first name is Tessa. Her last name hasn't been revealed.Per Wikipedia: Mary Sue, sometimes shortened simply to Sue, is a pejorative term used to describe a fictional character who plays a major role in the plot on such a scale that suspension of disbelief fails due to the character's traits, skills and abilities being tenuously or inadequately justified. Such a character is particularly characterised by overly idealized and clichéd mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly.

CC has commented on Sage's Welsh ancestry. Tessa's last name is Gywn, and she is the mother of Pixie. Her husband died in a mining accident as revealed in the forthcoming "X Men - Free Comic Book Day" comic.For real? I thought Sage was from like Afghanistan or someplace with a lot of wars or something.

[darknessatnoon]

Per Wikipedia:

For real? I thought Sage was from like Afghanistan or someplace with a lot of wars or something.

Yeah, I actually did know what it meant.

I am fairly sure he was joking about her being Welsh. And she is not necessarily from Afghanistan. That's just where Xavier found her, but she might have just been passing through on her way from escaping the harem.

[just another user]

Wales has lots of wars too, I'll have you know.

(She is half Welsh / half Afghanisani)

[Rolltideguy77]

I refuse to ever consider Sage an X-(Wo)Man. I cant stand her. Death to it ASAP, preferably in the most horrible way imaginable.

[darknessatnoon]

I refuse to ever consider Sage an X-(Wo)Man. I cant stand her. Death to it ASAP, preferably in the most horrible way imaginable.

Sage doesn't require your acceptance. She merely needs our consumer dollars and the love of a few die-hard fans... and she gets those things in droves.

[Rolltideguy77]

Sage doesn't require your acceptance. She merely needs our consumer dollars and the love of a few die-hard fans... and she gets those things in droves.

Sage has droves of fans? Come out, come out wherever you ten are...:wink:

[Swashbuckler]

Sage is beyond some peoples comprehension I think. They feel humbled and limited by her extreme uniqueness.

Do I think Sage would work if she hadn't been Tessa? I think she might work better. I really enjoy Sage, and I really loved Tessa, but the recton of making Tessa a spy was sloppy. They didn't spend anytime showing us Tessa's efforts at spying except for one scene in X-Treme X-Men number 1. That's it. The twist came out of left field and made very little sense.

Sage needs to interact with the Hellfire Club again for the drama. She was in that CC arc, but it was lousy and made little sense. Honestly, CC needs to just let Sage go.

[Flameworthy]

Claremont wanted to use Cece in Uncanny too btw, he wasn't allowed.

Thank god for that. I'd rather she be in limbo/dead than have her written by CC again.

[Phil Hunn]

Yeah, I actually did know what it meant.

I am fairly sure he was joking about her being Welsh. And she is not necessarily from Afghanistan. That's just where Xavier found her, but she might have just been passing through on her way from escaping the harem.

No, I think CC was serious about saying Sage has Greek/Welsh ancestry.

Sadly, I also think he's serious about everything else Sage-related :frown:

[darknessatnoon]

No, I think CC was serious about saying Sage has Greek/Welsh ancestry.

Sadly, I also think he's serious about everything else Sage-related :frown:

lol, I must go re-read New Excalibur. Somehow.

Ugh.

[jarrod]

Thank god for that. I'd rather she be in limbo/dead than have her written by CC again.
Yeah, I wan't too thrilled with the Revolutionary drug-addict-she-warrior Cece myself.

Seems obvious though CC was biding his time, her brother was undoubtedly brought in to kickstart a "search for Cece" story as soon as editorial winds changed.