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View Full Version : New Mutants (Vol. 2) #8-#9 - The Unpublished Story


Beast
07-12-2005, 08:34 PM
Nunzio posted this over on Comixfan, and I figured you guys would be intrested. It's the much hyped but Marvel killed 'Victor Suicide' story that was meant for New Mutants (Vol. 2) #8. While no firm answer was ever stated for why it was cut, it's assumed it was due to the sensitive nature of the story.

Okay...

So it's parent's week, and all the kids have parents visiting. Josh is complaining about his roommate who won't talk to him (David) and Victor is complaining that yet another roommate moved out. Victor invites Josh to switch rooms, and Josh says he will.

Parents visit the school - very few parents actually came. Shan meets Victor's parents, then goes on a date with Luna - as set up by Dani.

Shan and Luna have their date, it goes well, they have a goodbye kiss - right in front of the Grind Stone. Inside, David and his parents are talking about David having to leave Xavier's because it hurts his chances of getting into college. Then his parents see the kiss and are outraged.

David's parents tell the other parents about Shan kissing Luna, and by the time Shan gets back to the school, the parents are demanding Xavier fire Shan. They're led in this by Victor's parents, who have taken this very personally. Northstar calls the protesting parents bigots. Shan is overwhelmed by this, and hints to Xavier that if it'll make things easier, she'll quit. Northstar is not impressed.

Victor seeks out Shan and confides in her that he is gay. He tells her he plans to tell his parents this, in the hopes that this will make them back off of Shan. Shan tells him not to. He should only tell them when it's right for him, and not do it to protect her. He leaves, and Northstar enters, telling off Shan for being a coward and even thinking of leaving.

David faces off with his parents, furious at the trouble they've caused for Shan, who is his friend. They explain that they don't want her fired. They just don't think she should be doing that in front of kids. He's pissed. If Shan had kissed a man, his parents wouldn't have cared.

Victor doesn't heed Shan's advice and tells his parents. They insist on pulling him out of the school as it has corrupted him - Shan did this to him. He refuses, so they disown him.

Julian and Josh are playing pool, and commenting on how they never knew Shan was gay. Josh comments on Julian's advisor (Northstar) being gay, which upsets Julian a LOT.

They see Victor chase after his parents, who are leaving.

They ask Victor what's wrong and he tells them. They flip out. Julian thinks all the sports they've played and the times they've played tackle football were just Victor hitting on him. Josh thinks the invite to move in was a come-on.

They very nearly beat Victor up, and he runs off.

Victor goes back to his room, having lost his family and his friends, and kills himself. End of issue.

Second issue. Shan visits Luna and tells her Luna was wrong to kiss her in front of the kids. Luna gets angry and says she has no desire to date someone so ashamed of herself that she can't kiss someone in public. Shan leaves, Luna goes out back and is fried by Nori.

Josh goes to Victor's room to apologize - he was being a jerk. He finds Victor dead. He tries to heal Victor, but it's too late. Another kid in the hall runs to get help, and brings back Shan, who pulls Josh away from the body.

Outside, Sofia, David and Laurie are stunned by what's going on. An ambulance is out front and stories have already started to circulate. Josh is standing there, covered in blood.

Julian approaches Josh and says "too bad you hadn't moved in yet. I hear you get straight As for the semester if your roommate offs himself." Josh decks Julian, and the fight breaks out.

David and company arrive to help Josh, who doesn't want their help.

Inside, Northstar finds Shan with the body and says that Victor was an idiot. He was in the one place in the world that is all about acceptance. He lost his family, yes, but look how few parents came. Did he think he was the only one? Shan nearly kicks his ass, saying 'you're talking about being rational. He was fifteen.' To which Northstar says 'you're right, he was fifteen. What's your excuse?'

The fight goes on (with Julian saying 'if you want to blame yourself, go ahead. But don't lay this on me, Josh') until the body is carted out. Laurie sees the body and gets so upset that she starts crying, and her pheromones spread across the schoolyard, forcing all the kids who are fighting to break down in tears too.

The next day, Julian seeks out Northstar and drops him as an advisor, saying he'll switch to anyone who's straight. Northstar acts as if the rejection of a delinquent like Julian doesn't bother him, but when Julian stomps off, we see that even Northstar can have his feelings hurt. Emma swoops in and takes on Julian as an advisee.

At a special assembly (no Shan) the parents are gathered to deal with this news. The Borkowskis blame Shan. Northstar is ready to really tear into them until Shan arrives on the scene and tells them this is everyone's fault. She blames herself for being so wrapped up in how the parents saw her that she didn't realize she needed to stay at the school for kids like Victor.

The Borkowskis protest, but Shan says she's staying, to which Northstar smiles his approval. Xavier says that of course she can stay.

David's parents get ready to leave, worried about David having gotten into a fight, when he's already in college trouble staying at the school.

David tells his parents he's not leaving the school. This is where he belongs. His parents disagree with the decision, but he tells them he may not even come home for the holidays. He's angry with them for their role in this.

They had no idea it would get this far, they tell him. And he points out to them that bigotry always gets this far at some point.

He goes inside and finds Josh in the room. He asks Josh if he wants to talk about what happened with Victor. Josh says no. But then Josh thanks David for standing up for him, and we know that their private feud is over.

And that was the original, 2 part, parents' week.

As you can see, a lot of what was in the final issue was transformed into something different, but still wound up in the final issue.

And a lot of what was there never came to pass.

The next issue featured a scene of the kids passing by Victor's door, where candles and flowers have been laid out. After they leave, Sofia goes back and sees that Julian, thinking no-one is watching, has gone to the door to apologize to Victor and to tell Victor he's angry that Victor killed himself before Julian could make things right. Sofia listens in on the wind, and when Julian leaves, he realizes it and asks "what are you looking at?" and she says "nothing," keeping his secret, but realizing he has feelings he's not letting his friends see.

Still, even with that scene, the net result was a much bigger jackass moment for Julian.

So for that reason, and because Victor is a favorite, I guess I'm glad the story never happened.

Still, it was something we were very proud of, and something that could have raised the profile of our book.

Ah, well. Like I said, Julian has changed as a character now, so it's almost impossible to look back and think he would do that to a friend over something as meaningless as sexual orientation.

So, it's better that it never happened.
Unpublished pages from New Mutants (Vol. 2) #8:

http://newxmen.cacophany.com/gallery/inkedpages/nm08_pg13_unpublished.jpg
http://newxmen.cacophany.com/gallery/inkedpages/nm08_pg16_unpublished.jpg
http://newxmen.cacophany.com/gallery/inkedpages/nm08_pg18_unpublished.jpg

Shadow Crawler
07-12-2005, 09:46 PM
Wow, this could have been a great story if published. But Victor is a great character, so I'm kind of glad it wasn't.

Dr. Killbydeath
07-12-2005, 10:25 PM
So his parents don't care that he's a chameleon boy, but they dissown him when he comes out of the closet?

atoningunifex
07-12-2005, 10:31 PM
I'm glad Marvel didn't publish this. I'm trying to see if there is any afterschool special high point it did't hit. And, no, I think it hits them all. This summary was torturous, I can't imagine what the actual story would ahve been like.

Zeta
07-12-2005, 10:52 PM
Oh gosh. This is like the typical sappy gay storyline. It's so bloody full of cliche's it's stomach churning. And trust me, I've read a lot of these.

So his parents don't care that he's a chameleon boy, but they dissown him when he comes out of the closet?

Yeah, that's freaking hilarious if you think about it. I mean, there are some species of amphibian that can change their gender - who knows, maybe Victor has their DNA? :p

Anyways, I'm glad he's not dead. But man, does he need a better codename or what? Anole? In a fight, it'd make it sound like someone crying out "Anal! Help us!"

Huzzah!
07-12-2005, 11:38 PM
.....


hmmm


I read both new mutants and new x-men.


Gotta ask.


Who the hell is victor?

Huzzah!
07-12-2005, 11:40 PM
Ah.


I see.


Well Victor was always a prick.


HA!


*ahem*


i do like how both of his parents are wearing charlie brown gear.

Like the Shan Northstar moments...but some of the story seems a bit ugh for me.

I would htink parents would hate him being a mutant far more.

Some nice visuals though could have come from this story.

What was it changed to? I dont remember

Tenebrae
07-12-2005, 11:41 PM
.....


hmmm


I read both new mutants and new x-men.


Gotta ask.


Who the hell is victor?

Victor is the little fella on what was Northstar's squad (now looked after by Karma). He's green and has a spikey hard shell on top of his head. He's the one who was particularly upset during the Northstar memorial issue.

milhouse123321
07-12-2005, 11:47 PM
Thanks for the link and info Beast, much appreciated.
I remember hearing something about this story beign altered when it was first gonna come out so thanks for clearing that up for me man.

Huzzah!
07-12-2005, 11:54 PM
what was the story changed to cuz i have no friggin idea. usually i have a photoreflective memory when it comes to this completely useless trivia stuff but im drawing a huge blank here

MrBiggs7
07-13-2005, 02:35 AM
That was cool but I'm glad it didnt happen. I wouldn't mind the Shan/Victor/Northstar parts but I can do without the suicide and especially without Josh and Julian beating up Victor. As much as I liked Josh, I would have hated him after that. He would legitimately and always be a biggot if it went down like that.

Deathstroke
07-13-2005, 05:44 AM
Pretty interesting issue that never was.

Jack Flash
07-13-2005, 07:13 AM
i am so glad this didn't happen. that's all I'll say about it.

Steven F.
07-13-2005, 10:25 AM
Wow...I spent months wishing the suicide/gay story had been published...I have changed my mind though. That just sounds awful.

handOFfate
07-13-2005, 11:03 AM
I actually think that with some tweaking, this could have been a very interesting and tragic storyline. But thank god it couldn't be done now. Julian and Josh have both changed far too much as characters to justify acting in that manner. David's parents aren't that prickish, and of course Northstar's dead.
Still, maybe a possible non-continuity one-shot if the original writing team gets a chance to write one down the road.

jadegiant77
07-13-2005, 02:23 PM
Wow, that was sappy. Glad it was nixed. I woulda been pissed if I had to sit through one more "tragic gay death" issue. I stopped reading Academy X because it was so soap operatic: hopefully, the change to more action oriented stories will rock.

Huzzah!
07-13-2005, 02:32 PM
Well to be fair arent all suicide stories sappy?

venuscameback
07-13-2005, 03:02 PM
eugh. that has all the soap cliches that led me to give up on the book.

while there's plenty of good stories that could have been told on this subject ... this doesn't feel like it would have been one of them

venus

twincast
08-30-2006, 12:10 PM
sorry about resurrecting the thread, but I've been searching for those unpublished images for months. the links are dead, could anybody repost them?
pretty please with a buncha cherries on top. :)

Beast
08-30-2006, 12:12 PM
sorry about resurrecting the thread, but I've been searching for those unpublished images for months. the links are dead, could anybody repost them?
pretty please with a buncha cherries on top. :)
I'm sorry, I don't think I saved them. Maybe someone else did. :(

Madrox84
08-30-2006, 12:18 PM
As i have said elsewhere, i think this story would have been very good (even if it does have cliched elements). But i'm glad it wasn't published, i like Victor he is one of my favourite characters from New Mutants/Academy X/New X-Men.

Metallurgique
08-30-2006, 12:36 PM
I'm glad this story never ran. I'm sure there are many Gay X-readers who have long wanted characters who might be like them and who they could more readily identify with. The X-verse hasn't had too many Gay characters (Karma, Northstar, Destiny, Mystique, Cameron Hodge (implied by never stated), and some of the X-statix..) and even fewer Gay men..and it'd be a shame to kill one off who's got so much potential.

It seems like a cop-out, this script. An easy way of dealing with the Gay thing and then having it go away forever. Plus it seems overly maudlin, and somewhat out of character. I can't see Julian and Josh beating up Victor over that, I just can't, and I can't see Victor's parents being okay with having a kid who's green and lizard-like and can move like spider man but not okay with a kid who's green and lizard-like and gay.

Hopefully we'll get to know Victor, and his rumored interest Paras, better at some point.

Beast
08-30-2006, 12:39 PM
I'm glad this story never ran. I'm sure there are many Gay X-readers who have long wanted characters who might be like them and who they could more readily identify with. The X-verse hasn't had too many Gay characters (Karma, Northstar, Destiny, Mystique, Cameron Hodge (implied by never stated), and some of the X-statix..) and even fewer Gay men..and it'd be a shame to kill one off who's got so much potential.

It seems like a cop-out, this script. An easy way of dealing with the Gay thing and then having it go away forever. Plus it seems overly maudlin, and somewhat out of character. I can't see Julian and Josh beating up Victor over that, I just can't, and I can't see Victor's parents being okay with having a kid who's green and lizard-like and can move like spider man but not okay with a kid who's green and lizard-like and gay.

Hopefully we'll get to know Victor, and his rumored interest Paras, better at some point.
You can't see Josh beating someone up over being gay?

Even though he was a member of the Reavers, the Anti-Mutant hate group?

Daithi
08-30-2006, 01:27 PM
You can't see Josh beating someone up over being gay?

Even though he was a member of the Reavers, the Anti-Mutant hate group?

People can change though.

Beast
08-30-2006, 01:33 PM
People can change though.
People don't instantly change.

Metallurgique
08-30-2006, 02:25 PM
Perhaps before Josh's life changed, but not by the time he was as Xavier's. Even if he did want to fit in and thought that being homophobic might help him out with Julian, I think he'd draw the line at attacking a friend or former friend, remembering his friend from the reavers and how that went down.

I can't see Julian instigating it, either.

Mitsaso
08-30-2006, 02:45 PM
I'm glad this story was never published.

I like Anole and I don't want him dead. Never mind that suicidal gay boys are quite a cliche...!:D

Affinity
08-30-2006, 03:38 PM
You can't see Josh beating someone up over being gay?

Even though he was a member of the Reavers, the Anti-Mutant hate group?
I definitely see that happening. Even with Julian, but especially Josh.

They're just kids. Adults don't care so much, I think, but kids are still all prejudice and bigoted.

fishtaco
08-30-2006, 04:42 PM
You can't see Josh beating someone up over being gay?

Even though he was a member of the Reavers, the Anti-Mutant hate group?Oi. I never read those issues. Were Donald Pierce, Bonebreaker, Wade Cole, Lady Deathstrike, Pretty Boy and the whole lot there?

streator
08-30-2006, 05:02 PM
Oi. I never read those issues. Were Donald Pierce, Bonebreaker, Wade Cole, Lady Deathstrike, Pretty Boy and the whole lot there?
just donald pierce and some new reavers.

about this thread: i remember how changing this story delayed the book a bit. i think it hurt the title along with the changing artists every few issues.

Dazzler
08-30-2006, 05:14 PM
i like Victor, so in that respect I'm glad he didn't kill himself. However, I've always been a little irritated thinking which part Marvel thought was too much for readers: suicide, homosexuality, or the suicide of a homosexual. I mean, clearly, many people are still stupid enough to not want visible homosexuals...and to think that if no one ever talks about suicide it will never happen. I can't even imagine what these poor mental defectives might think about the third option.
I really only can retain my cool by thinking that it was a story-telling issue that editorial had and not a political one.


BUT, like i said, I'd rather have a *living* cool chameleon queer kid than a dead one...so good save on that front. :)

--Dazz

dazzler_slave
08-30-2006, 05:25 PM
I'm just glad we didn't lose Anole to this story. It would have been intereresting had it played out, but I think I prefer what did happen instead.

Zombienorthstar
08-30-2006, 05:36 PM
People don't instantly change.

Exactly...though im glad this story didnt happen in terms of Josh's emotional arc it would have made more sense...he went from mindless bigot to happy go lucky nice guy too quickly for me.

If he had seen the consequences of his bigotry and stopped would have made more sense.

However i like Anole and im glad hes not dead.

Effect
08-30-2006, 07:59 PM
As much as I enjoyed N&C's work on New X-men I have to say that this story seems really cliche and over the top and a bit preachy. To the point where I'm glad this wasn't done. Dealing with a student being gay is one thing but to throw in all those other extremes on top of other extreme reactions is really over the top. I can't think of any other extreme reaction that wasn't included.

Not only that but it doesn't really work for me on a whole with all the students being mutants anyway. I can see these reactions happening but I thought mutants was suppose to be Marvels way of touching on the situation of those being different (color of skin, sex, etc) already. The focus on this seems redundant I think when we are talking about mutants, especailly with how things where to play out the way they do.

Vaal
08-30-2006, 10:54 PM
Yeah, I am also glad that that didn't get run. Even with having Josh and Julian 'see the light' in the end, I wouldn't have looked at them the same way after that.

Syzygy
08-30-2006, 11:24 PM
I would have liked to have seen this story. It sounds really good to me.

As for Anole's death, well, that's an easy enough story element to fix. He attempts suicide (maybe by cutting his wrists), but Elixir intervenes in time to save him.

As for the "soap opera" charge, well, I didn't mind that that was an aspect of the book. I remember being a teen, and it was very "soap-operatic" for me.

Peace,
Syzygy

xmanson
08-31-2006, 11:50 AM
That was crappy.

Arilou
08-31-2006, 12:51 PM
Not only that but it doesn't really work for me on a whole with all the students being mutants anyway. I can see these reactions happening but I thought mutants was suppose to be Marvels way of touching on the situation of those being different (color of skin, sex, etc) already. The focus on this seems redundant I think when we are talking about mutants, especailly with how things where to play out the way they do.


Faulty concept. Just because you're a member of a discriminated minority doesen't mean you can't be a bigot yourself. Even though you think they should know better.

Which is why jewish homophobes, for instance, is so jarring.

Effect
08-31-2006, 01:45 PM
Faulty concept. Just because you're a member of a discriminated minority doesen't mean you can't be a bigot yourself. Even though you think they should know better.

Which is why jewish homophobes, for instance, is so jarring.

I'm not saying a person couldn't be like that. T thought the whole point of mutants in the Marvel universe was to cover situaitons like this without getting to the point where certain stories leave readers feeling uncomfortable. To keep that seperation between the Marvel universe and the real life without crossing over to far into real life where problems start to appear. Or at least stop a person from feeling like someone is hammering their head in with certain topics which this story as it was written seemed to do due to how events played out.

I mean they showed reactions among the parents when the kiss happen. Then the reaction among the students. At that point I think message has gotten clear as to what the story is going to be about and you can start the resolution. It goes further though with the beating, nasty comments, talk about being proud who you are, etc then the death. Through that it becomes a situation I think where you say "we get the point" and then the dead horse just keeps getting beat since the point was made but things just kept being stacked when it most certainly doesn't need to be. That's the problem you get when you cross that line between comic and real life to far on the real life side.

droogiedroogie
08-04-2008, 11:44 PM
Sorry to resurrect this thread again, but I was wondering if anyone happened to save the art images?

The Cool Thatguy
08-05-2008, 05:30 AM
I the only one who finds it odd that they wouldn't let the writers tell a cliche story about tolerance and suicide, but had no problem blowing up a school bus full of children?

Steven F.
08-05-2008, 07:24 AM
I the only one who finds it odd that they wouldn't let the writers tell a cliche story about tolerance and suicide, but had no problem blowing up a school bus full of children?

Probably because blowing up a school bus full of children made for good stories, whereas the suicide story was a terrible idea in every way.

The Cool Thatguy
08-05-2008, 07:42 AM
Probably because blowing up a school bus full of children made for good stories, whereas the suicide story was a terrible idea in every way.

Because the deaths of a dozen characters is better than the emotional loss of a single character?

Sentinel K
08-05-2008, 07:49 AM
Because the deaths of a dozen characters is better than the emotional loss of a single character?

the deaths of a dozen lame characters > the death of a cool character.

So... yes.

Jack Flash
08-05-2008, 08:46 AM
it has nothing to do with the amount of deaths.

One good story is better than one really bad one.

Kid Icarus
08-05-2008, 09:12 AM
This sounds really annoying
but then suicide always sounds annoying to me
because I'm a cold hearted fool

If losing Josh and Julian would push someone over the edge
maybe they should revaluate some shiz