Jsa

[PatrickG]

What do you guys think?

Good book by all accounts but I always loved the early 90s version of the team where they were written as old men who'd never give up.

Now, the generations have come together...

But I see a lot of casual readers say this book is impossible for them to get into due to the heavy continuity... And a part of me thinks that the very concept of legacy heroes bogs things down a bit.

But, in my mind, the smart move would be a complete 180 from DC's approach to JSA over the last 15 years.

I think they should embrace it as a team of senior citizens. Whether as a cabbal of immortal old men who've built up a power infrastructure or as a bunch of adrenaline-fueled old guys who buy ben gay in bulk, I think the concept's more coherent and an easier sell than:

A) Well, they're not like the Justice League because they're the original superteam.

B) But aren't most of the people on the team fairly new?

A) Yes! See, it's about legacy.

B) Like Flash or Green Lantern.

A) But these people are the founders of the DCU and the heroes they inspired.

B) Like Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman?

A) The JSA works with the government.

B) Like the Avengers?

And therein lies the problem.

IMO, the Legion should never age beyond 21 and the JSA shouldn't admit people under 65. It should be attached to the concept. Superman is from Krypton. Batman avenges his parents, The JSA is made up of senior citizens. The Legion is a teenage club. Wonder Woman is an Amazon. The JLA is the icons. The Titans are family.

[matterconsumer]

A senior league seems to be a Giffen opportunity...

[PatrickG]

Now there's something I could support.

I'll admit I like the iconic JLA a little too much to be into Giffen's version.

But if DC would do JSA as a comedy book with Giffen and Maguire (or to shake things up, I'd go for McGuiness on art), I'd be there in a heartbeat.

[matterconsumer]

I'm impressed that JSA sells as well as it does...This has to do more with the creators than the characters.

I agree that it's not an easy title for a new reader to break into.

Old farts, new costumes --- inspired by Ian :)

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Its a hard book to really get Into. I just recently added It to my pull list for 2 reasons. One I wanted a part of the "Days of Vengence" cross-over and 2, with Johns leaving Flash I need another great Johns read.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

I tried it out for the three part DoV tie-in, and I have to say, part 3 that came out today was fantastic. I think I'm going to keep it on my pull list for a while.

[Samurai]

The thing is, there are a lot of us old timers who love and appreciate the characters and continuity. There are dozens of other series that lack that continuity, making them easier for new readers to jump into at any point. The JSA is different... it's written for people that remember the old days... who love to see Jay and Alan and Ted and others grow as characters, reminisce about the old days, fight old school villains sometimes, dredge up characters like Ma Hunckle that anyone who just started reading comics in the last 10 years probably never heard of, create their own legacies and pass the torch to new kids and former sidekicks, etc. All of that, placed atop the history we old fans have with these characters, is what really makes the book special... that and the way Johns has "fixed" so many characters and situations that were screwed up over the years by writers trying ineptly to "reimagine" things. Fate, Hawkman, Dr. Midnight, Hourman, Sentinel, Power Girl, and on and on...

I see the JSA as a very long-running soap opera that, before the current writer, had been completely screwed up by a bunch of hacks. The backstory was a confusing mess amnd embarrasingly bad in many cases, but then Johns came aboard. He set about fixing everything, returning it to its former glory. Sometimes with a legacy character, sometimes by revamping the original, but always trying to rekindle the spirit of the old in new and fresh form.

If new readers want to jump in and meet these characters for the first time, great. But IMO the series is by and for people that know and love the history of these characters, and it shouldn't be watered down for the sake of comedy or accessability. I think the sales bear out that there have been a lot of old fans waiting for this kind of book, even if the history and continuity make it harder to just jump into.

[PatrickG]

I just think the JSA continuity was pretty accessible in the Parobeck series. It was pretty accessible in the All-Star revival. It's accessible in the JLA/JSA team-ups.

I think legacies are the first step towards making it inaccessible.

[MacQuarrie]

If it were me, I'd go the Roy Thomas All-Star Squadron route and set all the stories in the past. Differences: I'd jump around from 1938 to 1956 as the mood struck, and I'd avoid getting caught up in all that anal-retentive continuity-fixing that destroyed the Young All-Stars. I'd do more like what Busiek did with Untold Tales of Spider-Man; write stories that fall between issues of the old books.

[PatrickG]

Imagine Morrison on All-Star Squadron. :D

Celtic Nazi mysticism. Fifty odd heroes (and I do mean odd).

I know DC won't be publishing flashback books in the near future and that Grant will be revamping a number of these characters... and is already.

But I think a Morrison All-Star Squadron would top my pull list.

[Red Berens]

I love this book - I think it's one of the best comics out there. I agree with you to a point. It would be nice if all the old guys were on the team, but there aren't that many left. If it was just old heroes, then it would just be Green Lantern, Flash, and Wildcat. The new characters are fun - but I wish they were a little more like the originals. And I wish DC had left a few more originals around.

[heystacy]

I love JSA. I am glad PowerGirl is finally getting an origin story. I like a lot of the characters. I even liked Black Adam becomming a hero for the moment. Adam's on the tragic side, and so is Atom Smasher.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

JSA is about the second and third tier characters. It's about those cool little obscure characters that really aren't meant for the big leagues but a cool characters worthy of a few great stories. It's also an unashamed revelling in comics continuity and minutae. I honestly have no idea why any new readers like this book, but I guess that's a testament to Johns & Goyers great writing.

[PatrickG]

BTW, as far as olf timers go, I count:

Thunderbolt
Rex Tyler
Jay Garrick
Alan Scott
Ted Grant

There are also a number of sidekicks like Sand, Thorndyke and Dan the Dynamite.

If we're talking an All-Star reunion, there's:

Liberty Belle
Merry, Girl of 1,000 Gimmicks
Sir Justin
Jim Harper
Iron Munro
Fury
Tsunami

[CaptMagellan]

What do you guys think?
<SNIP>
I think they should embrace it as a team of senior citizens. Whether as a cabbal of immortal old men who've built up a power infrastructure...
<SNIP>


This could be really intriguing. I stopped reading JSA a while ago. For a number of reasons, one of which (the one pertinent to this thread) is that I was having a hard time suspending my disbelief about all of these WWII heroes that are still, not only in spandex, but able to fight crime without breaking hips, or being exhausted for days on end after an excursion.

I was originally wishing they would just retire all the originals and have legacy heroes that didn't strain the time passage element.

But now, I'm thinking that if they had a large story arc, where Sentinel starts to discover that there is a.... force.... behind a lot of the major players they (and other heroes) have been up against. I sort of hidden menace - a sort of gnostic menace that the world isn't aware of, would be resistant to accept as real, and if they did accept would completely dispell the way they saw the world.

They dedicate themselves to fighting against it. They end up, through Dr. Fate, Sentinel, etc., becoming, literally immortal (at their current depictions of mature, but not infirm, elders) fighting against a threat no one else is really aware of - becoming almost a 'secret society' of immortals who see the world in increasingly different ways from the younger generations.

The other teams would see them as heroes that didn't fight as much as they used to (although they would go up against 'normal' villains sometimes) and would think that they are just growing older and slowing down. They would also still be seen as training JSA 'legacy' heroes (the 'outer circle' of potential future recruits to the 'inner circle').

As they got weirder, the other heroes would question whether senility was setting in.

That way, you could have younger heroes and as many resurrected old heroes as you could want.

[Tom]

I think the JSA suffers from obsolete-ism in the face of the more popular, more powerful JLA. If it were up to me, I would have played up the "society" aspect of it. A secret club of old men and women with tremendous gifts fighting the good fight for 60 years secretly and behind the scenes, rather than a generic superteam with a big flashy headquarters and multitude of spandex types.

[Cayman]

I loved the book when it was launched, but now I find it unreadable. It's been sad the way the quality of the book has plummeted during its run. I hope a creative team overhaul is in its immediate future because I'd love to read it again.

Cay