Are B&W comics an answer ?

[lucretius]

There's been a discussion on another comics forum about the seemingly sad state of the industry and what can be done about it (yeah, yeah, as if this conversation hasn't been started a million times), but a lot people seem to agree that prices are just too high. A possible source of these prices were traced to increasingly slick and glossy production materials and high tech coloring. It seems as if comics are made for the sole purpose of collecting, when they once were disposable (i.e. read once or twice and throw away) entertainment. With that in mind, if you were given the choice of buying a higher priced glossy color comic and a much lower priced black and white, disposable comic, with both having virtually the same content, which would you chose? Would it be wise for more creators to start out in black-and-white and then later move to color?

[WatsonGlenn]

There's been a discussion on another comics forum about the seemingly sad state of the industry and what can be done about it (yeah, yeah, as if this conversation hasn't been started a million times), but a lot people seem to agree that prices are just too high. A possible source of these prices were traced to increasingly slick and glossy production materials and high tech coloring. It seems as if comics are made for the sole purpose of collecting, when they once were disposable (i.e. read once or twice and throw away) entertainment. With that in mind, if you were given the choice of buying a higher priced glossy color comic and a much lower priced black and white, disposable comic, with both having virtually the same content, which would you chose? Would it be wise for more creators to start out in black-and-white and then later move to color?

I've come the the conclusion comics are just about over. You can now download them for free, only hours after they come out. To answer your question I almost never like black and white comics.

[outlander78]

I think comics in their current format, with their current price, are on their way out. It could be years before that happens, and I'd prefer if it never happens, but it seems probably. When the direct market was instituted the end was assured.

I'd prefer to be able to pay for, download and read comics on my notebook (just as portable, and far more stable) in the same way that I buy my music from iTunes (damn fine service, that). This would allow the industry workers to get more of my money and remove the need for huge amounts of storage. Imagine unlimited access to back issues, no speculation, no multiple cover nonsense ... and no need to resort to trades.

edit: I'm currently house hunting, and considering basement storage space as I've got too many long boxes for a closet. This is crazy, and probably increasing my interest in the Series x Issues 1-latest DVD market that unfortunately does not exist (yet).

In any case, I don't like black and white comics. Dilbert is fine in black and white, but I don't think I'd enjoy anything else quite as much.

[Magneto_X]

I'd be fine if Western comics went b & w. If the Japanese can do it, we should be able to. (without screwing up as usual).

[badMike]

With that in mind, if you were given the choice of buying a higher priced glossy color comic and a much lower priced black and white, disposable comic, with both having virtually the same content, which would you chose?I don't find B&W comics to be much, if at all, cheaper than color comics. And why do you assume that B&W comics are "disposable"? FINDER is the best comic out there and the B&W art is beautiful, not disposable.

[lucretius]

I never made that assumption. I was asking if you'd buy a comic that was B&W and disposable, meaning not being made out of high-gloss material that seems catered towards collecting. I'm not talking about the content itself being disposable. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

And as for the price difference, there is a noticable one. Just go to ComiXpress (http://www.comixpress.com) and enter the type of comic you want, once with color and once without, and you'll see what I mean. I guess the difference would be subjective to the particular printer and the type of material used. I've seen B&W comics on glossy pages too.

[badMike]

I never made that assumption. I was asking if you'd buy a comic that was B&W and disposable, meaning not being made out of high-gloss material that seems catered towards collecting.Ahh, sorry. Thanks for the explanation.

The answer then is probably No. For example, I'm somewhat interested in some of the Marvel Essentials books, but I get turned off that they were meant for color, have lame B&W reproduction and are on crappy paper. Do those books sell well for Marvel?

It would have to be something extraordinary in story and art to get me to buy something in the format you are proposing. PLUS, I don't care how "disposable" the format is. I'm a collector, which I categorize as an illness. I still have boxes of stupid, crappy photocopied zines from 10 years ago that I can't bear to throw out. They're worth nothing and probably weren't even worth the $1 each I spent on them. But damned if I can get rid of them.

[NatGertler]

And as for the price difference, there is a noticable one. Just go to ComiXpress (http://www.comixpress.com) and enter the type of comic you want, once with color and once without, and you'll see what I mean.Yes, but if you're talking about selling a lot of something, then you won't be talking about printing through ComiXpress. They are a short-run comics printer. Trust me, the folks who publish comics with 100,000 copy print runs aren't paying $1.40 a copy to do so.

Yes, color printing does cost more than black-and-white. No, it doesn't cost -that- much more when you do a healthy print run.

Some black and white books sell (there ain't much of that manga stuff in color!), but for the most part, the traditional American comics pamphlets sell far better in color than in B&W. There are plenty of B&W books on the market, but look at how far down the Diamond top 300 you have to go to find one.

[Dennis]

cerebus looks beautiful. cuz it had a background artist who did that crazy crosshatching thing. it looks classy. but photoshop coloring is the way to go.

but static images are over. 3d games kills comics. the images in comics just can't be improved any more. even the latest comics by the best artists look really retro. especially compared to what's coming out on the new game systems.

[NatGertler]

Yeah, right. And no one listens to the radio anymore, now that they've got the MTV.

[Inkthinker]

I think that if more comics make their start on the web, they'll be more likely to print only as trades, and in often in color (because digital color is only a matter of the available time and skill of the artist).

However, I would also note that considering B&W to be suitable only in manga and indies is a probably fallacy... For one, more and more artists are taking their influence from Japanese work and B&W is a comfortable medium for them... for another, I think whether it's done in monotone or full color is always going to be secondary to the quality of the art, and more importantly the STORY. People will always gravitate to good art and good story.

No matter what, it seems inevitable that comics will need to reduce in price if they intend to expand. It seems likely that in the long run the Japanese model will take place, if only for cost-effectiveness... anthologies and trade collections (in both B&W and color), and perhaps certain titles will continue to publish in the traditional format for the collector and nostalic market.

[WatsonGlenn]

Yeah, right. And no one listens to the radio anymore, now that they've got the MTV.

Radio is free.

[Inkthinker]

Radio is free.

So are most webcomics. ZING!! :D

Actually, I think that the fact that most of the successful webcomics I've seen actually give away their main content, and make money off advertising and merchandising, is key to their success. If you can guarantee a few hundred thousand eyes look at your page every day, that can translate into a decent income, and if a fraction of those hundred thousands are into your work enough, they'll buy prints and collected strips and merchandise... and they'll know that every penny of the profit from those purchases goes straight to the artist.

But I think it's key that those comics don't actually cost anything to read and enjoy (aside from the expense of a computer, internet, etc., which I should think for most of us is a given expenditure of daily life). People participate to the degree that they feel comfortable, and so far, if the CONTENT is good enough, that seems to work.

[Sleeper]

Certainly seeing more B&W comics piling up in my monthly hauls. The colour is a factor, if only for the price. But if an independent like Penny Farthing can pump out high quality gloss and material like CAPTAIN GRAVITY AND THE POWER OF THE VRIL, I don't see why the major publishers aren't doing it as they are.

Then again, for the really small indies, that just isn't an option. And if they can keep their price point below $3, then that makes me put down an order.

I get the feeling that without the colour, a lot of the comic relies on the content, which is good.

[Inkthinker]

I get the feeling that without the colour, a lot of the comic relies on the content, which is good.


I think so too. When you're competing with the slicks, you have to be twice as good to stay on the shelves, and some B&W monthlies have survived, even flourished, and still carry on with fair success. Usagi Yojimbo, Finder, Thieves and Kings and so forth... Cerebus carried through to it's planned conclusion, even considering that Sim went a little... outspoken... towards the last third or so.

[WatsonGlenn]

[QUOTE=Inkthinker]So are most webcomics. ZING!! :D


err yeah but paper comcs aren't, which is what we were talking about. Still I glad you enjoyed your little zing.

[fumetti]

The answer then is probably No. For example, I'm somewhat interested in some of the Marvel Essentials books, but I get turned off that they were meant for color, have lame B&W reproduction and are on crappy paper. Do those books sell well for Marvel?

I believe they sell very well, or at least are significantly profitable. Now DC's getting into the game with their Showcase volumes.

They're the best READING value in comics. I've now read almost every Silver Age Marvel superhero story. That was not possible for me otherwise.

If I could have bought Spider-Man 1-150 (or so) in full color on slick paper at the same price of Essentials, I'd surely have done it. The Essentials aren't ideal. They are a compromise. I'd rather read ALL the Spideys in B/W than never have read them at all because I couldn't afford the color versions.

[fumetti]

Answering the thread's question...

No, I wouldn't be interested in cheaper Marvel/DC comics if it meant going b/w.

I used to feel this way, that I'd rather go back to crappy newsprint if that meant I could buy twice as many comics each month. I no longer feel that way.

I am totally impressed by today's production quality. I love the feel of DC's new Green Lantern series, for example (and Marvel's Ultimate line). I like holding them and flipping through them. Computer coloring and good paper really make these comics stand out.

[badMike]

I'd rather read ALL the Spideys in B/W than never have read them at all because I couldn't afford the color versions.I don't have all of them, but I used to like reading the old Marvel Tales comics when they reprinted the Ditko/Lee Spidey stories in the early-mid '80s. Marvel used to publish a ton of reprint comics, like old Avengers and stuff. I wouldn't buy them now, but they were fun at the time.

[Inkthinker]

[QUOTE=Inkthinker]So are most webcomics. ZING!! :D


err yeah but paper comcs aren't, which is what we were talking about. Still I glad you enjoyed your little zing.

I did, I truly did. :D

I don't see how this conversation is restricted to comics published in print form. Publishing online is a viable alternative to publishing in print if the material in question is of sufficient quality, and if a comic is initially published online it has impact on its eventual print release. Since we're talking about the future of comics, it's worth mentioning, espescially given that the cost of comics is key to the issue at hand.

[CaptChucky]

Printed comics seem to be making a slow come-back in various venues. I think people still like the feel of printed paper. I don't think it'll go away any time soon.

[Inkthinker]

I don't think printing will go away anytime soon, but I do think that the format may have to adapt in order to thrive (as opposed to merely survive).