How would you revamp Captain marvel?

[Captain Thunder]

Hi this is my first ever post here on the CBR forum. As you may be able to tell I am a huge Captain Marvel/shazam fan. My question to you is "how would you revamp captain marvel?"

Personally I would age Billy Batson into his mid teens, maybe 16 years old. I also would like to see him have some sort of family life. For example a little more in sight into his relationship with his sister mary. I would like to see what happens between billy and the star spangeled kid.

Last but not least get rid of tawky tawny, I could never stand that character. I know that its part of his history but in reality I just think that it brings the whole book down.

Just my two cents worth.

[Typo Lad]

Personally I would age Billy Batson into his mid teens, maybe 16 years old.

That's the sick part. DC says he is sixteen. Which makes no sense.

I also would like to see him have some sort of family life. For example a little more in sight into his relationship with his sister mary.

If doing a full "revamp" I would ignore the Marvel Family for at least a year. Yes, it's an important part of the mythos, but give people a chance to see why Billy kicks butt first.

I would like to see what happens between billy and the star spangeled kid.

Eh. Wasn't pleased with that storyline.

Last but not least get rid of tawky tawny, I could never stand that character. I know that its part of his history but in reality I just think that it brings the whole book down.

Alas, as much fun as TT was in the olde days, he just doesn't fit. Retire him and Uncle Dudley and let them hang out with Hoppy and the Lt Marvels.

[davids]

Laugh it up, let him go back to talking tigers, super intellegent worms bent on world conquest. Bring back the fun and the silly side of comics.

[glennsim]

The main thing I would do is go back to where Cap and Billy had different personalities and talked about each other in the third person. I always associated the Wisdom of Solomon with an adult personality for Cap. I don't like the "man with personality of teenager" thing.

[shyguy]

Above all, I'd get Cap out of the DCU and into his own universe pronto.

He'll never have a chance to shine as long as he's second banana to Superman (and he's really more like 18th banana, since he's such an outsider).

I like the idea of holding off on the Marvel family for a while, and I say that as someone who's a bigger fan of Mary Marvel than Cap.

[Lex]

Welcome to CBR Captain Thunder! :)

Above all, I'd get Cap out of the DCU and into his own universe pronto.

I agree. Doing this would be a lot better for this character.

Also, I would totally start over with Billy as a 10 year old orphan. The closer Billy gets to being an adult, the further away he gets from his main concept: a kid who transforms into a super-powered adult.

[chicagokmc]

i was going to post this question myself. here is what i would do:

power set/marvel family

this needs to be clarified once and for all. going back to pre-crisis, you've had the following in regards to the powers of shazam and those he shares it with:

- everyone has same power set. this was pre crisis, where mary marvel and cm3 were each as powerful as cap marvel.

- power split - there was only one power set, which if used by more than one at same time, would split the power. this was post crisis, mainly in the power of shazam book.

- cap and cap lights - this seems to be the way things are done today. cap marvel is always at full power, mary marvel and cm3 seem to have similar powers as cap, but at a lesser degree. evidence of it is in major crossovers and story lines, where all 3 are powered up but cap seems to have no decrease in his powers. this is the option i would go with and move on.

villians

the villians ultimately help define the heroes. cap's rogues gallery was established at a time where short, bald scientists and genius worms were entertaining. cap needs a major overhaul here. a hero like cap marvel (similar to superman) needs villians that both match him in brawn and possibly exceed him in brains. jsa has done a good job revamping black adam, so i think he is ok. dr. sylvania needs a total revamp - i'd say get rid of him and make someone like the calculator (over in villians united) cap's main antagonist. if you are going to keep mr. mind around, and i wouldn't, i would mutate him to be a monstrous, giant worm. and finally cap has been playing a prominent role in day of judgement, i would have a result of that be some new "world's mightiest immortal" (i forget which villian used to hold that title) - maybe mordru, who is imprisoned in the rock of eternity, can have something to do with this.

marvel family/supporting cast

i think having the marvel family be a part of things is good, they help make him distinct in the comic world. i would take the power of shazam approach and do more of a rotating solo story thing with those 3. also, i think the wizard should be more active with the family, especially guiding mary and cm3.
jsa should definitely only be in the background, in fact i would scale cap back to being a reserve member there.

billy baston

purists will hate this one, but i would get rid of the kid transforming into an adult aspect of the character. it was cool for awhile, but part of my revamp would be to move batson into a totally adult role. the backstory could be him adjusting to being an adult as billy, but he would definitely be in his late 20's early 30's.

dc universe

i would keep him in the mainstream dcu. i like the aspect of fewer earths, and keeping marv in the dcu means he can continue participation with jsa.


just some of my ideas

[protonik]

I have HUGE ideas for Captain Marvel. First he needs to be put into his own role in the DCU instead of playing Superman v. 2.0. What seperate Cap and Superman? Superman is the ultimate Science Fitcion character ala Flash Gordon while Captain Marvel is the ultimate fantasy character with a strong basis in magic. With Captain Marvel DC could explain the nature of magic in the DCU better than any other character. Sure Dr. Fate is their premiere sorceror but he is just one form of DCU magic. Captain Marvel should become a symbol of the whimsical and magickal side of the DCU, a magickal reflection of Superman.

His stories should look more into the magickal aspects as well, like in Crisis times 5 by Grant Morrison. That story really showed the awesome potential of Captain Marvel and Joe Kelly wrote an issue of Superman that reflected a similar potential for the character with the whole magic of SHazam etc. Basically Captain Marvel should be the one who protects the DCU from magickal threats from other dimensions etc instead of fighting mobsters like he did so often in Ordway's series.

Visually he needs something to set him apart from the rest of the DCU and again I take a cue from Crisis times 5 by Morrison and that is how Howard Porter portrayed the character VISUALLY. The crackle of lightning constantly around him was inspired. I think that when Marv uses his power something visual should be present similar to how VAn Sciver portrayed the GL's using their power in Rebirth, the logo manifesting off their uniforms. Cap should crackle with the energy of Shazam when fighting etc. It makes an interesting visual.

I would assign Morrison to write and Chris Sprouse or Porter to draw the book. Million seller again.

Jason

[glennsim]

I have HUGE ideas for Captain Marvel. First he needs to be put into his own role in the DCU instead of playing Superman v. 2.0. What seperate Cap and Superman? Superman is the ultimate Science Fitcion character ala Flash Gordon while Captain Marvel is the ultimate fantasy character with a strong basis in magic. With Captain Marvel DC could explain the nature of magic in the DCU better than any other character. Sure Dr. Fate is their premiere sorceror but he is just one form of DCU magic. Captain Marvel should become a symbol of the whimsical and magickal side of the DCU, a magickal reflection of Superman.

His stories should look more into the magickal aspects as well, like in Crisis times 5 by Grant Morrison. That story really showed the awesome potential of Captain Marvel and Joe Kelly wrote an issue of Superman that reflected a similar potential for the character with the whole magic of SHazam etc. Basically Captain Marvel should be the one who protects the DCU from magickal threats from other dimensions etc instead of fighting mobsters like he did so often in Ordway's series.
Jason

I find this interesting. So many magic stories tend to involve one magic-user zapping another magic-user from a distance. It would be different to have a hero wade up into the magical battles and punch his way through them without a ranged attack. Can you imagine Captain Marvel battling Wotan?

[dougiemccoy]

Put him in his own earth
go back to the talking tiger and evil worm
have Ringo or Nauck draw it
have Mark Evanier or Peter David write it....

[jadrax]

I think protonik has pretty much hit the nail on the head.

What I really don't want to see is them removing things that seperate Cap from Superman, like the Billy Batson child person and the Marvel family. (The tiger can go though.)

[twilight]

I'd like it if CM was some kind of angry dinosaur.

Just my two cents :)

[lonewolf23k]

Now, this may sound crazy, but I think Captain Marvel would benefit from swiping ideas from the TV shows most similar to the book's basic concept: Power Rangers.

Hear me out, here.. The similarities are pretty strong: young people getting empowered by a mysterious, benevolent patron to battle a rising threat; transformation from regular mortal teenager form to superpowered warrior form; the occasional "comedy sidekick character"...

...Ok, so the parallels aren't perfect. Still, I'd revamp the concept of Captain Marvel as follows...

After thousands of years, a mystical catastrophy unleashes Mordu and the Seven Deadly Demons from the Rock of Eternity, allowing them to escape to Earth, to regain their strengths and gain power in the mortal realm. To fight them, the now aged wizard Shazam will need help. He calls upon the power of his six Elder patrons, Solomon, Hercules, Achilles, Zeus, Appolo and Mercury to empower a champion, who must be a young man of great honor and spiritual purity.

That young man is Billy Batson, 14 year old High School Student. Now, while he might be young by today's standards, Shazam's very old fashionned reasonning is "Hey, at his age, I was already fighting lions to protect my father's sheep.. He can handle it." (remember, back in antiquity, what we see as teenaged was already considered adult). Billy's still an orphan, but he and his sister have been bounced around different foster homes, and he's been having trouble keeping in touch.

After a brief introduction and exposition, Shazam grants the powers of the Elders to Billy, telling him to call upon his name to activate them. He's reluctant at first, but soon finds himself using those powers when Wrath, wanting to get some fun after eons of imprisonnment, decides to wreck havoc at his school. He transforms into the physical form of Captain Marvel (resembling his late father) and whoops the Minion's butt. When confronted by the press about his identity, he panics and blurts out "Captain... Marvel! Yeah, that's it, Captain Marvel!" trying to make it sound impressive.

Of course, now Mordru is aware that Shazam has created a new champion, and begins to gather his forces. He finds the mad genius Sivana and enlists his aid as his "advisor on the modern world", tasking the scientist to help he and his minions adapt to the modern era, as well as to design technological solutions to battling Captain Marvel, while Mordru himself focuses on his sorcery.

The Seven Deadly Demons would be the basic "lieutenants" in service to Mordru, each one a dangerous beast with special abilities: Wrath would be your basic Hulk-like brute, Lust would be a shapeshifting seducer, Envy could steal other people's abilities, etc.

Mordru would later recruit other "minions".. an aged Nazi Warcriminal whom he would grant new youth and physical power as "Captain Nazi", the mysterious mutant hivemind worm creature called "Mr Mind", capable of controlling people through it's thousands of worm drones, and his most apt servitor, Shazam's former champion, Black Adam, whom he'd managed to corrupt and turn to darkness.

As the series would progress, Captain Marvel would find himself joined up by Mary Marvel, his long-lost sister, and Kid Marvel (because Captain Marvel, Jr is pretty lame, especially since he can't even say his own name without transforming). I'd also add Tawny Tiger, but as little more then an ordinary plush toy granted life (and not human size and abilities), due to being inhabited.. ...By a former lesser demon who decided he didn't want to be evil anymore. (kind of a minor twist).

Edit: Also, I do agree with Protonik that thunder and lightning needs to become one of Captain Marvel's thematic effects: He does wield the power of Zeus, after all. Let's see some lightning when he flies, and hear some thunder when he punches. Also, I think it'd be interesting if he got a lightning blast power, for the same reason. Hey, Superman's got Heat Vision, why should Captain Marvel not get a ranged energy attack?

[Ontir]

I would keep all of the Fawcett stuff in continuity, and have Bill, Mary, and Freddy have started their careers in the 1940's. I'd retcon Cap into the JSA, replacing the now gone 40's Superman.

Similar to what DC Did when they acquired the Fawcett properties in the 70's, I'd have Cap have been missing since about 1951. He'd re-emerge in the early 21st century, having to adjust to this new world, and find out what had become of his family and foes.

[Captain Jim]

Welcome to CBR, Captain Thunder! :)

[Captain Thunder]

I have to admit that I love reading the posts from other CBR members on this subject. I personallt would keep Cap in the main DC universe, and I would love to see the whole lightning and thunder thing happen when cap fights. Thanks my friends on all this fresh input on a comic character that I love. :)

[Mart]

Yeah, welcome Captain Thunder. I'm another one for making Cap top dog in his own universe. While I loved the Jerry Ordway PoS series, generally I don't think Cap works with the DCU. And while the recent Giffen/DeMatteis Super Buddies stuff was fun, I generally don't want to see Mary THAT ditzy. And Cap Jr (CM3 - ugh) might as well be renamed Invisible Kid. No, forget DC continuity, stick them firmly in a Fawcett world of talking tigers and nutty gods and power mad worms and market them with the Johnny DC line - Cap could be a great way into comics for kids.

[protonik]

Thanks for the comments on my ideas guys. Captain Marvel has always been special to me but I realize that the days of Fawcett Publications and Earth S are over no matter how we pine for them. Cap is a DCU character now and he needs to be redefined for it in a way that captures that old magic but gives him his own place in the DCU. I even have an initial story that deals with hypertime etc and the Golden Age CM that sets up a new series but I doubt it would go anywhere so here goes:

One night there is a major lightning storm in Fawcett City. The next day the kids are walking to school when they com across the park and see that it has been totally burnt out and a group of people have gathered around. As the kids peer through the crowd they see an old man, unclothed and weak. He looks up and makes eye contact with Billy and starts begging him for help. The old man looks strangely like an old Captain Marvel.

The kids quickly convince the crowd that it is a relative of theirs that has been really sick, mostly in order to kepe the old man quiet and to get him away from the crowd and return with him to their home. They question him there and discover he thinks he is Bill Batson, a former reporter from WHIZ radio in the 40s and the secret ID of Captain Marvel. They try to get him to prove it but he can not say the magic word at all. Just as they begin to give up the old man gets fear in his eyes and the kids turn around to see the new villain of the piece "Godkiller" (not the final name) who grabs the younger Billy before he can say the word and breaks his neck...

The other kids are soundly defeated even int heir superhero forms and the villain escapes, thinking the old man useless. In the last page of the first issue the old man cradles the young Billy Batson and cries the word Shazam.

Next issue opens up with "Godkiller" stepping from a portal into the DCU proper. It is revealed that the previous issue wasn't the DCU but an "elseworld" and that his plan is to kill all the Captain Marvels in reality and steal their power for himself (no, this isn't a The One replay, he isn't an evil Billy Batson). He kidnaps Uncle Dudley (at the time I was writing this Uncle D was taking care of Billy from what I could ascertain) and takes his place in the kids life. Across town though Captain Marvel is in action, dealing with a bank robbery (this story sets up the new status quo as protector of the magic aspect of the DCU) when he is confronted by a man that looks just like him except his costume is all skin tight and not a military jacket like thingy (late 40s, 70s era Cap). Of course they have a fight in the grand comic book tradition until they come to the revelation that they are one in the same person, albeit in a different fashion. The older CM explains to Billy who he is and why he is there and warns him of his impending doom. Meanwhile back at the ranch "Dudley" is preparing a special surprise for young Billy.

That was all I got done so far but I have the full outline in a notebook somewhere and this is all done up from memory. I had plotted each page and panel and was turning it into a creator owned thing which made it about six issues instead of the three or four. I started this when DC was still accepting solicitations from new people and when they shut those doors I set it aside. What happens is that the DCU Billy dies fighting the "Godkiller" in issue 3 and issue 4 old Billy sacrifices himself to bring Billy back after defeating the Godkiller. This destroys the DCU Captain Marvel in a way, Billy can't turn into CM as he could before except that as a reward for his courage the older Billy is restored to life as a youthful Captain Marvel and when Billy says Shazam he turns into the older, now young Billy, making them two seperate beings but still sorta the same and possessing the continuity of the Fawcett CM and the Earth S CM as well as the DCU CM. With the knowledge of alternate realities etc and the memories of the Anti-monitor, Hypertime etc. Shazam redefines CM's job as protecting the DCU reality from magical and interdimensional threats. Hilarity ensues.

One thing I did in my presentation was I kept it so that Mary and Freddy still took their power from the same power source and it was split when they both were in their powered forms. Tawky Tawny I was working on in various ways but nothing really clicked except that maybe he was a refugee from an alternate reality that the older Billy saved and he came to the DCU to help the DCU Billy prepare for "Godkiller".

Jason

[Cayman]

Laugh it up, let him go back to talking tigers, super intellegent worms bent on world conquest. Bring back the fun and the silly side of comics.

That's my opinion as well. Bring back the whimsy.

Cay

[Ontir]

I'd still set them in the DCU Proper, I'd just explain the talking tiger. I had an idea (which with a few nips and tucks, could still be implimented) back in the late 80's, which worked really well, and tied Cap more closely into the stuff that was going on with the other books. Some of it, because of what's been done with Shazam in JSA, would have to be changed, but otherwise, it'd still work.

[Lorendiac]

I'd still set them in the DCU Proper, I'd just explain the talking tiger. I had an idea (which with a few nips and tucks, could still be implimented) back in the late 80's, which worked really well, and tied Cap more closely into the stuff that was going on with the other books. Some of it, because of what's been done with Shazam in JSA, would have to be changed, but otherwise, it'd still work.

My own thought was that if I set it in the DCU proper, which is doable, I'd beg the editors to give me a written guarantee that Cap's regular monthly title would be totally immune to Big Crossover Events. Then I'd write his adventures basically as if they were happening in their own little world, with very little acknowledgement of the outside world of Metropolis, Gotham, JLA, JSA, etc. For instance, in my scripts nobody in Fawcett City would ever compare him to Superman.

[Cei-U!]

Though this wouldn't make me terribly popular among the fanbase, I would star the characters in an oversized series geared to beginning readers and distributed (like the ubiquitous Highlites magazine) to schools, libraries, doctors' offices and similar venues. Nobody is providing young readers with quality super-hero material and I can't imagine anyone better suited for such an experiment as Captain Marvel and company.

Barring that, I would at least sever all ties between the Marvels and the DCU, and try to recapture the whimsey and light-hearted fantasy that made them unique among their super-heroic contemporaries.

Cei-U!
I summon the magic lightning!