Some People Have No Shame

[Jayna]

I live in a small, conservative, Midwestern town of 26,000 people. News of "freak sightings" have a tendancy to travel fast and far. I wanted to share our town's latest.

I ran into my sister yesterday at our town's largest and most popular supermarket, of which she also happens to be one of the assistant managers. She stopped to tell my daughter & I this story.

It seems that 2 days earlier a middle aged man (37 actually, but he looks older) came into the store and caused quite a stir because he was wearing a kilt. There was a lot of staring, pointing, & laughing going on. Of course my sister had to check it out, since it was becoming the talk of all the store employees.

She said she went over to look at the man and turned to her co-workers in horror saying, "Oh my God, that's my ex brother-in-law!" At this point my daughter looked like she wanted to crawl under a rock. She already has problems being seen around town with her father on his visitation days & this has only made it worse. Poor kid.

[JerrBear81]

I don't see the big deal. It's just a kilt. I got quite a few online friends who wear them occassionally as well.

[Archyduke]

I went to highschool with a few people who wore kilts semi-regularly, class president among them. Kind of unusual, but eh... no big stir really.

[i_mmmchocolate]

Did anyone ask him why he was wearing the kilt?

Or, is he just crazy like that?

[west3man]

I thought this was going to be the "left them behind with nothing but bills" story.

[Donald M.]

You're absolutely right, some people just have no shame.

Imagine getting so worked up over a guy in a kilt.

[Greg Hatcher]

I thought this was going to be the "left them behind with nothing but bills" story.

That story's been told here many times. Before you arrived, I think. Chapter and verse were posted before the board crash, so it's gone now.

As for the kilt thing, I'm torn. Here in Seattle it's become something of a fashion accessory for the punk/goth crowd... torn tank top, spiky hair, dog collar with studs, and a kilt. Usually with combat boots or something. What you'd call an eclectic look. Not an everyday ensemble, certainly, but not unheard-of. So we're used to it.

It looks frankly silly to ME, especially since none of the people wearing these outfits really have the physique to carry it off. But I'm a bit prudish and repressed, and not in any way a fashion plate myself. So I dunno.

On the other hand, dressing that way just to blow the minds of the prudish is an adolescent pastime, and if he knows his daughter is going to get penalized for it by her peers then it really becomes inexcusable.

[JerrBear81]

That story's been told here many times. Before you arrived, I think. Chapter and verse were posted before the board crash, so it's gone now.

As for the kilt thing, I'm torn. Here in Seattle it's become something of a fashion accessory for the punk/goth crowd... torn tank top, spiky hair, dog collar with studs, and a kilt. Usually with combat boots or something. What you'd call an eclectic look. Not an everyday ensemble, certainly, but not unheard-of. So we're used to it.

It looks frankly silly to ME, especially since none of the people wearing these outfits really have the physique to carry it off. But I'm a bit prudish and repressed, and not in any way a fashion plate myself. So I dunno.

On the other hand, dressing that way just to blow the minds of the prudish is an adolescent pastime, and if he knows his daughter is going to get penalized for it by her peers then it really becomes inexcusable.

Oh, my online friends wear them for various different reasons individual to each. Like you said, the punk fashion, I'm sure I had one a while back who wore Kilts just for that.

Several of them wear kilts because they're Scotish. These are usually for special occassions, but sometimes they're nice to wear casually.

I know of one that wears kilts during sexual play lol!

[west3man]

That story's been told here many times. Before you arrived, I think. Chapter and verse were posted before the board crash, so it's gone now. I've been here a coupla years, now, but okay. I just got the impression from her post in the "eBay virgin" thread that this one would support the "jerk" husband, leavin' family w/ bills label.

As for the kilt thing, I'm torn. Here in Seattle it's become something of a fashion accessory for the punk/goth crowd... torn tank top, spiky hair, dog collar with studs, and a kilt. Usually with combat boots or something. What you'd call an eclectic look. Not an everyday ensemble, certainly, but not unheard-of. So we're used to it.

It looks frankly silly to ME, especially since none of the people wearing these outfits really have the physique to carry it off. But I'm a bit prudish and repressed, and not in any way a fashion plate myself. So I dunno.

On the other hand, dressing that way just to blow the minds of the prudish is an adolescent pastime, and if he knows his daughter is going to get penalized for it by her peers then it really becomes inexcusable.
Dunno why he wore it, so I have to put it in the "it's his business" category, just as I'd say his daughter, hypothetically, wearing "punk," "goth," or whatever other kinda attire would be HER business, regardless of whether it was embarrassing to him.

Obviously, though, it's nice, and often worthwhile, to take other people's feelings into consideration.

[Bakema NL]

No shame, a kilt..........before you know it girls will walk around in skirts, bellybottom out for all to see, so tight their tits almost explode out of the tiny piece of cloth.

Why are we all so stuck-up about things, we definitely are sheep, following the other one blindly. Somebody tells us what is fashion and we will blindly follow.........goes for everything.

[howyadoin]

Oops. Joke didn't work.

Please delete.

[DonC]

I'm sorry your daughter has problems with her dad, Jayna. Sadly, there isn't really anything that you can do about that.

[Punchy]

I don't see the big deal in wearing a kilt either.

I mean the worse possible scenario is that he's only wearing it for attention. And even that's not so bad. I mean, why do people wear clothes that accentuate their figures or wear blue to highlight their eyes or wear tight jeans? For attention. I don't see much of a difference.

[Alex]

People around here wear kilts on occasion, i know several of them to be born in america, with no interest in their cultural history.
We just call them jackasses who want attention and move on, not incredibly common, but it's not as jarring as the guys wearing dresses.

[The Mirrorball Man]

A kilt? Yeah, some people have no shame. I even heard that these days, some young punks let their hair grow long, you know, like girls!

[west3man]

People around here wear kilts on occasion, i know several of them to be born in america, with no interest in their cultural history.
We just call them jackasses who want attention and move on, not incredibly common, but it's not as jarring as the guys wearing dresses.
It's partly the fact that if he were a cross-dresser, many, if not most, of us would be defending his right and choice to express himself in that way. There are other examples, but some make comparisons that I think some would find disagreeable.

[Shellhead]

I'm not sure where Freeport, Illinois is offhand, but my parents used to live in Belvidere, Illinois, which is near Rockford. Back when I was in college, one time I dragged a couple of friends along on a roadtrip to visit my folks.

It was a fun trip. At one point, my mom took us to the video store to rent a couple of movies, and the video store was basically a separate section within the local grocery store.

One of my friends was a pale white guy with a natural red afro.

Everybody in the store gawked openly at him. It completely pissed me off. As we walked out I turned around and loudly proclaimed, "Small towns, small minds."

[phoenixrising]

I wasn't aware that kilts were a sign of shamelessness. I see them a lot around here on men of all ages, particularly on St. Paddys day/Iris Fest/Scottish Fest/etc.

I think there's more shamelessness in a buch of employees standing around making fun of a customer.

[howyadoin]

It's partly the fact that if he were a cross-dresser, many, if not most, of us would be defending his right and choice to express himself in that way.Hmm, maybe it wasn't a kilt. Maybe he was dressed as a Catholic schoolgirl.

[Shellhead]

I just mapquested Freeport. It's fairly close to Rockford, so I can easily picture these gawkers. Sadly, Freeport is also less than two hours drive from both Milwaukee and Chicago. Despite their proximity to actual civilization, they have chosen a life of ignorance and repression.

[phoenixrising]

I just mapquested Freeport. It's fairly close to Rockford, so I can easily picture these gawkers. Sadly, Freeport is also less than two hours drive from both Milwaukee and Chicago. Despite their proximity to actual civilization, they have chosen a life of ignorance and repression.

Freeport? That explains everything. That section of Illinois is just as backward than Appalachia (where I'm from).

[K'Nort]

Freeport? That explains everything. That section of Illinois is just as backward than Appalachia (where I'm from).

Certainly sounds like it. I've lived in towns of 8,000 and people still wouldn't point and laugh, or even stare. And especially not with a customer.

[TCJohnson]

I own a couple of kilts. My great grandparents were from Scottland and gave my grandmother, who gave my mom who gave me a sense of pride in my culture.

The people without shame were the intolerant gawkers. Sounds like a town full of small minded people.

anybody wearing a yamika would be burned at the stake.

[Spike-X]

I live in a small, conservative, Midwestern town of 26,000 people. News of "freak sightings" have a tendancy to travel fast and far. I wanted to share our town's latest.

I ran into my sister yesterday at our town's largest and most popular supermarket, of which she also happens to be one of the assistant managers. She stopped to tell my daughter & I this story.

It seems that 2 days earlier a middle aged man (37 actually, but he looks older) came into the store and caused quite a stir because he was wearing a kilt. There was a lot of staring, pointing, & laughing going on. Of course my sister had to check it out, since it was becoming the talk of all the store employees.

She said she went over to look at the man and turned to her co-workers in horror saying, "Oh my God, that's my ex brother-in-law!" At this point my daughter looked like she wanted to crawl under a rock. She already has problems being seen around town with her father on his visitation days & this has only made it worse. Poor kid.
Zan's Scottish?

Sorry Jayna, I'm having trouble seeing the problem here. If there's any "bad guys" in this particular story, it's the small-minded people pointing and gawking at somebody who's a bit different.

Imagine, though, if the situation were reversed -

"Oh my God, look at her! A fully-grown woman with a child, and she reads those comic books!"

"Yes, and I hear she ever writes horror stories!!! And she lets her daughter help! Some people have no shame!"

From all you've told me about your ex I really don't think very much of him at all, but that doesn't mean he's always in the wrong.

[JadeDragon]

A man wearing a kilt, eh? (hides avatar)

I miss small towns. Here in LA you could wear a kilt, be half robot and be on FIRE and people might turn and glance for a second before going back to talking on their cell phones while driving.

MAYBE.

[DarkBlade]

.... so what? Was it a plaid traditional type, or the utilikilt style?

Those are really cool. :)

[JeffreyWKramer]

Zan's Scottish?

Sorry Jayna, I'm having trouble seeing the problem here. If there's any "bad guys" in this particular story, it's the small-minded people pointing and gawking at somebody who's a bit different.

Imagine, though, if the situation were reversed -

"Oh my God, look at her! A fully-grown woman with a child, and she reads those comic books!"

"Yes, and I hear she ever writes horror stories!!! And she lets her daughter help! Some people have no shame!"

From all you've told me about your ex I really don't think very much of him at all, but that doesn't mean he's always in the wrong.

I'm gonna commit an internet sin, and just quote the above and note "I agree."

If he was going around in nothing but a thong and a clown wig, I think that might be a bit much, but it's a kilt. BFD.

[Slappy san]

It's a friggin kilt! If this is freakish in a small town....well I'm staying away from small towns.

[TCJohnson]

A mother of three who collects trading cards, comics and anime...calling other people freaks. Who has no shame again?

[MacQuarrie]

I think you guys are missing the point. The guy knows exactly what the town is like, knows tha this behavior is going to reflect on his daughter and make her already difficult life a little worse, and chooses to do it anyway.

Yes, hooray for free expression, hooray for tolerance and diversity. How about a little hooray for kindness? If you know that your "self-expression" is going to inflict grief on your own kid, the mature, decent and generous thing to do is not wear your freakin' kilt in the repressed little uptight town, out of simple kindness to your kid. Doing so is nothing but petty and immature behavior. Especially if, as I suspect, it was done deliberately, for the express reason of inflicting that misery on his daughter. If that's the case, the guy is scum.

[TCJohnson]

Sorry, but as being from a family that is very proud of their scottish heritage, then I find Jayna saying people who wear kilts are freaks to be really offensive. If her dad wearing a kilt is the worse thing she is doing the kid does not have my sympathy. If the mother is teaching the kid to be so judgmental, that is just sad.

[west3man]

I think you guys are missing the point. The guy knows exactly what the town is like, knows tha this behavior is going to reflect on his daughter and make her already difficult life a little worse, and chooses to do it anyway.

Yes, hooray for free expression, hooray for tolerance and diversity. How about a little hooray for kindness? If you know that your "self-expression" is going to inflict grief on your own kid, the mature, decent and generous thing to do is not wear your freakin' kilt in the repressed little uptight town, out of simple kindness to your kid. Doing so is nothing but petty and immature behavior. Especially if, as I suspect, it was done deliberately, for the express reason of inflicting that misery on his daughter. If that's the case, the guy is scum.
Already been addressed in a couple of posts. No one seems to care why he wore it. With the information provided, it's hard to see him as the bad guy in THIS situation.

[kid cthulhu]

As for the kilt thing, I'm torn. Here in Seattle it's become something of a fashion accessory for the punk/goth crowd... torn tank top, spiky hair, dog collar with studs, and a kilt. Usually with combat boots or something. What you'd call an eclectic look. Not an everyday ensemble, certainly, but not unheard-of. So we're used to it.


Hey, Greg, I'm from Seattle as well and I believe Utilikilts is based in Seattle. I think it has a big following in the Burning Man Festival community, of which Seattle makes up a large part.

Being mostly Irish, I kinda dig the idea of kilts. Especially those beefy cargo-like versions. But I definitely do NOT have the physique to pull it off. Hell, I don't even wear shorts!

But the idea of getting worked up over it is just silly. People suck.

[kid cthulhu]

I think you guys are missing the point. The guy knows exactly what the town is like, knows tha this behavior is going to reflect on his daughter and make her already difficult life a little worse, and chooses to do it anyway.

Yes, hooray for free expression, hooray for tolerance and diversity. How about a little hooray for kindness? If you know that your "self-expression" is going to inflict grief on your own kid, the mature, decent and generous thing to do is not wear your freakin' kilt in the repressed little uptight town, out of simple kindness to your kid. Doing so is nothing but petty and immature behavior. Especially if, as I suspect, it was done deliberately, for the express reason of inflicting that misery on his daughter. If that's the case, the guy is scum.

I see your point.

But what about impressing on your kid to do what you want, to do what makes you happy? If you're not hurting anyone, screw 'em! The townsfolk are the ones who should be reevaluating why they find it so strange.

Having grown up in a similar type of town, I loved being the one to give everybody a wake up call. Get some farkin' culture, I say!

[Gaz]

Oh, my online friends wear them for various different reasons individual to each. Like you said, the punk fashion, I'm sure I had one a while back who wore Kilts just for that.

Several of them wear kilts because they're Scotish. These are usually for special occassions, but sometimes they're nice to wear casually.

I know of one that wears kilts during sexual play lol!
That last one isn't a certain someone here, is it? ;)

[Gaz]

People around here wear kilts on occasion, i know several of them to be born in america, with no interest in their cultural history.
We just call them jackasses who want attention and move on, not incredibly common, but it's not as jarring as the guys wearing dresses.
Dude, you are aware that this is basically saying, "Girls wearing jeans are all attention seeking dumbasses"?

[eJm]

I didn't quite get the story but I will say this...

If he was wearing the kilt with intention to embarress his kid, it doesn't take much comment sense to tell him NOT to do it.

If he wasn't and was showing his heritage, then I don't see the problem.

Either way, I'm sorta ashamed at the people who laughed and pointed at him.

[Gaz]

I didn't quite get the story but I will say this...

If he was wearing the kilt with intention to embarress his kid, it doesn't take much comment sense to tell him NOT to do it.

If he wasn't and was showing his heritage, then I don't see the problem.

Either way, I'm sorta ashamed at the people who laughed and pointed at him.
Or option 3, maybe he thought it looked cool? Like that minskirt over jeans thing, which I personally don't get?

[Alex]

Dude, you are aware that this is basically saying, "Girls wearing jeans are all attention seeking dumbasses"?
No, im saying the guys i know who wear kilts are attention seeking dumbasses.
Which is what i typed.
Next im going to talk about how stupid small town people are, stick around for it!

[Gaz]

No, im saying the guys i know who wear kilts are attention seeking dumbasses.
Which is what i typed.
Next im going to talk about how stupid small town people are, stick around for it!
OK, but it read like "guys in skirts are dumbasses" which is absurd if you flip the gender.

[Alex]

OK, but it read like "guys in skirts are dumbasses" which is absurd if you flip the gender.
Women having children is absurd if you flip the gender too.
So is, "Guy is on the Eagles offensive line"

[Gaz]

Women having children is absurd if you flip the gender too.
So is, "Guy is on the Eagles offensive line"
Yes, but "girl wearing pants"?

[Alex]

Yes, but "girl wearing pants"?
Isn't done by women to shock men in 2005.
If a guy is a cross dresser, he has his reasons, if a guy wears a kilt (and it's in america, and it isn't st patricks day) he still might very well have reasons.
If a guy just happens to wear a skirt with his shirt (and his boots), and he's between the ages of 13-27, he's probably trying to get attention, and is probably being a jackass about it.
It's not even shocking anymore, which just makes it more annoying.

[TCJohnson]

I wear kilts to weddings, scottish games, scottish fairs, renassiance festivals and sometimes parades. Not generally in public. However, on the way to such events or on the way back I will stop in stores or gas stations or resterauntes.

[Gaz]

Isn't done by women to shock men in 2005.
If a guy is a cross dresser, he has his reasons, if a guy wears a kilt (and it's in america, and it isn't st patricks day) he still might very well have reasons.
If a guy just happens to wear a skirt with his shirt (and his boots), and he's between the ages of 13-27, he's probably trying to get attention, and is probably being a jackass about it.
It's not even shocking anymore, which just makes it more annoying.
And the fact that young women doing pretty much this same thing probably got that same argument way back when doesn't bother you?
I'm not saying that they're not assholes, but their clothes shouldn't be why you think that, their behaviour to you is.

[MacQuarrie]

Sorry, but as being from a family that is very proud of their scottish heritage, then I find Jayna saying people who wear kilts are freaks to be really offensive. If her dad wearing a kilt is the worse thing she is doing the kid does not have my sympathy. If the mother is teaching the kid to be so judgmental, that is just sad.
She didn't say that.

She said that her ex-husband (who has been an incredible ass in many separate cases over the last couple of years), knowing that she lives in a small town that is full of extremely judgmental and gossipy people, knowing that his daughter is already having a rough time of it there, deliberately put on his kilt and strolled into the store where he knows his ex-sister-in-law is an employee, for the express purpose of making a scene. That's called being a prick. Yes, he was just wearing a kilt; that's part of the passive-aggressive pattern. If he wore something more extreme and outrageous, he wouldn't have plausible deniability, it would be obvious he was trying to make a scene.

The mother is not teaching the kid to be so judgmental; the town is so judgmental, and the father is deliberately trying to embarrass and humiliate his own daughter, and to cause her to be ostracized and harassed for his behavior.

Whether or not the people in town should do that is another question entirely. Of course they shouldn't do it. But if he knows they will, then doing what he did is not harmless. It's an act of psychological warfare.

[MacQuarrie]

I wear kilts to weddings, scottish games, scottish fairs, renassiance festivals and sometimes parades. Not generally in public. However, on the way to such events or on the way back I will stop in stores or gas stations or resterauntes.
Would you stop in a store that you know your ex-sister-in-law works at, knowing that the gossip will negatively impact your own kid?

Would you do so on purpose for just that reason?

Because that would really suck.

[Slappy san]

Seems like a Zan pile on to me. I wonder why Jayna has not reapeared to clarify. I guess she likes the pile on.

[MacQuarrie]

I see your point.

But what about impressing on your kid to do what you want, to do what makes you happy? If you're not hurting anyone, screw 'em! The townsfolk are the ones who should be reevaluating why they find it so strange.

Having grown up in a similar type of town, I loved being the one to give everybody a wake up call. Get some farkin' culture, I say!
I can see you've never raised a teenage daughter.

It doesn't work that way. You don't impress on your kid to do what you want, to do what makes you happy by behaving in a way that causes the kid embarrassment in public. All that does is alienate the kid and show her that you don't give a rat's ass about her feelings.

Doing so is definitely "hurting someone."

Of course the townsfolk are in the wrong, but if you know how they are going to respond, and you know that your kid has to live there and you don't, isn't it only being a good parent to just suck it up and not put your kid through the grief of having to bear the harassment for your self-expression?

[west3man]

Would you stop in a store that you know your ex-sister-in-law works at, knowing that the gossip will negatively impact your own kid?

Would you do so on purpose for just that reason?

Because that would really suck.
She said, "I ran into my sister yesterday at our town's largest and most popular supermarket, of which she also happens to be one of the assistant managers. " Bold and italics-mine.

That's painting a different picture than a man deliberately going into one of many possible large, popular stores, simply to cause distress to others.

We're not assuming the worst. So far, most of us don't have reason to.

[MacQuarrie]

Seems like a Zan pile on to me. I wonder why Jayna has not reapeared to clarify. I guess she likes the pile on.
How so? As far as I can see, I'm the only one who has "piled on" Zan. Everybody else got caught up in the topic of whether or not wearing a kilt is any big deal.

It's not.

But if your kid were living in a vegan commune, would you walk into the middle of the place where her aunt works and chow down on a roast beef sandwich in front of everybody? Knowing that everyone would take it out on her? Whether or not they should is beside the point; if you know how they will respond, would you do it? No decent person would.

[MacQuarrie]

She said, "I ran into my sister yesterday at our town's largest and most popular supermarket, of which she also happens to be one of the assistant managers. " Bold and italics-mine.

That's painting a different picture than a man deliberately going into one of many possible large, popular stores, simply to cause distress to others.

We're not assuming the worst. So far, most of us don't have reason to.
Any decent person would have gone into a different store so as to spare his kid any possible embarrassment. He knows his ex's sister works there. QED, he did it on purpose to be a prick.

[west3man]

How so? As far as I can see, I'm the only one who has "piled on" Zan. Everybody else got caught up in the topic of whether or not wearing a kilt is any big deal.

It's not.

But if your kid were living in a vegan commune, would you walk into the middle of the place where her aunt works and chow down on a roast beef sandwich in front of everybody? Knowing that everyone would take it out on her? Whether or not they should is beside the point; if you know how they will respond, would you do it? No decent person would. Yes, a "decent" person MIGHT.

You say people are getting caught up in whether wearing a kilt is a big deal, but that's what Jayna presented to us. We're focusing on the given.

On the other hand, applying a label of indecency to everyone who might choose to do something, knowing that their children might suffer ridicule from small-minded people as a result, appears to be a something like getting "caught up."

[eJm]

Or option 3, maybe he thought it looked cool? Like that minskirt over jeans thing, which I personally don't get?
Might be, I dunno

[Slappy san]

Too bad Zan isnt here to defend himself. But I guess Mac knows exactly what he is thinking.


It's a friggin kilt for chrissakes. Its not like he was doing a goat in the town square!

[TCJohnson]

She didn't say that.




She started off with, "News of "freak sightings" have a tendancy to travel fast and far. I wanted to share our town's latest." She didn't start off with, "Hey, let me tell you what my ex husband did to my kid lately."

The mother is not teaching the kid to be so judgmental

She is from where I am standing. She and her sister laughs at freak reports and people different from them. Ha ha.

and the father is deliberately trying to embarrass and humiliate his own daughter, and to cause her to be ostracized and harassed for his behavior.

Gee, she didn't say that. Are you sure we are reading the same post?

Would you stop in a store that you know your ex-sister-in-law works at, knowing that the gossip will negatively impact your own kid?

I would try to teach my daughter to take people for as they are. I would try to teach her that those that gossip about you don't really matter, and their opinions about you don't really matter since they need gossip to form their own. And I would try to teach her that if she did see somebody being laughed at for the way they look or the way they are dress, to stand up for them.

I will tell you what, any daughter I have better damned well get prepared for renassiance garb and kilts and things of those nature, because in the summers I am a ren rat and I look forward to the day I can share that with my child. ANd no, despite what you say, it is not to be cruel, it's being me.

[west3man]

Any decent person would have gone into a different store so as to spare his kid any possible embarrassment. He knows his ex's sister works there. QED, he did it on purpose to be a prick.
I had to look up "QED" here (http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19971029) . I don't think anything's been proven.

I just think, again, that people who are without bias in this situation (i.e. those who don't already have something against this man) don't see cause to condemn his actions, as described. Even if we don't agree on why he did it, we ought to at least understand why each side might see it the way that they do. I think I understand why you and Jayna might see it one way. I'd hope that you get why many of us see it another.

I'll check to see if there's something directed at me, to which I should respond, then, having made my point, I'll bow out until/unless something new develops.

[Dennis K]

I live in a small, conservative, Midwestern town of 26,000 people. News of "freak sightings" have a tendancy to travel fast and far. I wanted to share our town's latest.

I ran into my sister yesterday at our town's largest and most popular supermarket, of which she also happens to be one of the assistant managers. She stopped to tell my daughter & I this story.

It seems that 2 days earlier a middle aged man (37 actually, but he looks older) came into the store and caused quite a stir because he was wearing a kilt. There was a lot of staring, pointing, & laughing going on. Of course my sister had to check it out, since it was becoming the talk of all the store employees.

She said she went over to look at the man and turned to her co-workers in horror saying, "Oh my God, that's my ex brother-in-law!" At this point my daughter looked like she wanted to crawl under a rock. She already has problems being seen around town with her father on his visitation days & this has only made it worse. Poor kid.


So that's what Axl's been up to.

[DarkBlade]

Lemme put it this way.

He's an asshole. This has long since been established. West, Slappy, its just a thing that predates you being on the boards. I know you in particular are an intended champion of fairness, West, but really. Take our words for it.

1. If he's wearing a kilt just as part of his normal clothes, I again say whoop-de-do. It's an asshole who happens to be wearing a kilt. It's the biggest store around, odds are there aren't THAT many other options, usually aren't in very small towns.

2. If he's doing it to intentionally act out/hurt the girl, then he's an asshole FOR wearing the kilt. (In addition to a lot of other things.)

The kilt itself, big frigging deal. Some folks need to get over it. It's his intentions/behavior in with it that's the question.

[Smoogis]

Would you stop in a store that you know your ex-sister-in-law works at, knowing that the gossip will negatively impact your own kid?

Would you do so on purpose for just that reason?

Because that would really suck.

Edit: Nevermind.

.

[JerrBear81]

That last one isn't a certain someone here, is it? ;)

Honestly here, noooo! My legs would look baaaaaaaad in a kilt :)

[Slappy san]

Lemme put it this way.

He's an asshole. This has long since been established. West, Slappy, its just a thing that predates you being on the boards. I know you in particular are an intended champion of fairness, West, but really. Take our words for it.


Wrong-O. It doesn't predate me. I've proobably been here longer than you. I just won't ASSUME that Zan is up to something because he wore a friggin kilt.
You don't know WHAT he was thinking. You guys think he's an asshole SO MUST have done this to embarrass his daughter.

[west3man]

Edit: Nevermind.

.
I hope that edit wasn't because of my similar post.

[Azangel]

Seems like a Zan pile on to me. I wonder why Jayna has not reapeared to clarify. I guess she likes the pile on.

Slappy - she WORKS for a living, remember?

Geez.

And I'm still in the 'so what' category.

[Smoogis]

I hope that edit wasn't because of my similar post.

Everything I said was said better, more articulate, and was covered in posts that were made while I was typing it out, and although I still support the "Its a freaking kilt, its a freaking small town, its a huge store, deal with it" crowd, it was said better in earlier posts.

[DarkBlade]

Wrong-O. It doesn't predate me. I've proobably been here longer than you. I just won't ASSUME that Zan is up to something because he wore a friggin kilt.
You don't know WHAT he was thinking. You guys think he's an asshole SO MUST have done this to embarrass his daughter.
Dunno, not too many folks do around here these days... possible though.

Regardless, I already said that I'm not certain he's trying to pull something with it, just that it's POSSIBLE. If so, he's further exhibiting how to be an ass. If he's just doing his errands in a utilikilt, BFD.

[Slappy san]

Slappy - she WORKS for a living, remember?

Geez.

And I'm still in the 'so what' category.

I do too. Your point.

[JerrBear81]

She said she went over to look at the man and turned to her co-workers in horror saying, "Oh my God, that's my ex brother-in-law!" At this point my daughter looked like she wanted to crawl under a rock. She already has problems being seen around town with her father on his visitation days & this has only made it worse. Poor kid.

Uhhh, why did the ex sister-in-law feel it prudent to point that out to her co-workers? Especially if she possibly knew that her niece is having trouble in this town?

I know a little thing about gawkers. My grandma lives in a small town. I'm either being gawked at for being in a wheelchair, for dying my hair (Recently, weeks before we visited them too so I had no idea we were visiting them), or for having a white dad and a pacific-asian mom and being brown myself. Sometimes glared at. It's inescapeable.

[Azangel]

My point is she can't reply to CBR while she's at work.

So she can't reply to the 'dogpile' as you called it.

[west3man]

Everything I said was said better, more articulate, and was covered in posts that were made while I was typing it out,[snip]
I'll have to respectfully disagree. :)

[Slappy san]

My point is she can't reply to CBR while she's at work.

So she can't reply to the 'dogpile' as you called it.

This thread has been up since 11 am. I dunno what her hours are.

It is a dogpile by certain people with who think don't like Zan.

[Gaz]

Honestly here, noooo! My legs would look baaaaaaaad in a kilt :)
Not you! There's a particularly poster who has expressed a fondness for the kilt and "True Scot" look to me.

[JerrBear81]

Not you! There's a particularly poster who has expressed a fondness for the kilt and "True Scot" look to me.

Oh lol! I thought you were asking if I liked wearing kilts. I've never wore one anyway.

[Gaz]

Lemme put it this way.

He's an asshole. This has long since been established. West, Slappy, its just a thing that predates you being on the boards. I know you in particular are an intended champion of fairness, West, but really. Take our words for it.

1. If he's wearing a kilt just as part of his normal clothes, I again say whoop-de-do. It's an asshole who happens to be wearing a kilt. It's the biggest store around, odds are there aren't THAT many other options, usually aren't in very small towns.

2. If he's doing it to intentionally act out/hurt the girl, then he's an asshole FOR wearing the kilt. (In addition to a lot of other things.)

The kilt itself, big frigging deal. Some folks need to get over it. It's his intentions/behavior in with it that's the question.

See, without ever having heard of the guy, this just seems like "our town ridicules people who dress different", which is possibly part of the problem anyway.
Hell, I got grief in high school for wearing blue shoes. Was I doing so to embarass my friends? No, I thought they looked cool so I bought them.

[Azangel]

This thread has been up since 11 am. I dunno what he hours are.

It is a dogpile by certain people with who think don't like Zan.

@11-7 my time which means she posted right before leaving for work and hasn't logged in yet today.

I despise Zan and I *think* everybody knows it. And I told her last night it wasn't a big deal.

Oh yeah, not that it matters - he's not Scottish.

[Gaz]

Oh lol! I thought you were asking if I liked wearing kilts. I've never wore one anyway.
I doubt they go well with wheelchairs anyhow.
And I don't wear them even at formal events, half because I don't have the legs for it, and half because I have a DAMN fine suit I like to wear for those.

[west3man]

An interesting side-effect of discussions like this is that we often end up highlighting, making note of the artificial barriers in many of our cultures and societies.

"You were born with THIS plumbing, so you must wear THIS type of clothing, cut your hair THIS way, and have THIS type of emotional and physical response to THESE types of people."

I find these things very interesting.

[Gaz]

An interesting side-effect of discussions like this is that we often end up highlighting, making note of the artificial barriers in many of our cultures and societies.

"You were born with THIS plumbing, so you must wear THIS type of clothing, cut your hair THIS way, and have THIS type of emotional and physical response to THESE types of people."

I find these things very interesting.
Precisely, this wouldn't be an issue if it was some kid's mother who showed up in a pair of 501s. But guy in skirt = big hoohah

[Slappy san]

@11-7 my time which means she posted right before leaving for work and hasn't logged in yet today.

I despise Zan and I *think* everybody knows it. And I told her last night it wasn't a big deal.

Oh yeah, not that it matters - he's not Scottish.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Zan is a swell guy. I just think the dogpile because of past behavior is wrong.

[Nitmo]

Some people have no shame
and some people have no Shamus, that's why they look at kilts funny

[Slappy san]

I suddenly want a kilt. :)

Any one have a link the utility ones?

[JerrBear81]

I doubt they go well with wheelchairs anyhow.
And I don't wear them even at formal events, half because I don't have the legs for it, and half because I have a DAMN fine suit I like to wear for those.

True there. Only a full dress looks ok with a wheelchair. Not that I crossdress >.>

[Azangel]

Side note:

I live in a town roughly 10x the size of Jayna's...and work in a major grocery store, I have for 11 years.

The pointing-laughing-snickering-gossiping isn't necessarily being small minded, it's a way to break up the monotony and keep from going completely bonkers. The amount of CRAP the average cashier gets put through on a daily basis would curl your toes.

Nothing like being called a 'fucking whore' because you rang up an item twice to boost your esteem and make you love your customers. Or being spit at. Or having somebody hand you money they just used to clean their teeth with. Or money with their blood on it because they're too drunk to realise they cut themselves. Not being able to go to the restroom for hours on end.
Having a customer stalk you. Call you at home. Bother your friends. You get my point?

Be glad the only thing most retail workers do is LAUGH.

We have a guy that comes in who has every single part of *one* of his ears pierced, and he gets the same treatment. He often wears a skirt over his pants. Some of the cashiers won't wait on him. (And IMO they need to find new jobs.)

Personally, I find him hilarious, he has a warped sense of humor and is really cheerful and outgoing. If he wasn't, y'know, twice my age I'd go out with him in a heartbeat.

[Azangel]

I suddenly want a kilt. :)

Any one have a link the utility ones?

Dragoncon kilt guys LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/community/dragoncon_kit/

Utilikilts: http://www.utilikilts.com/

Be scared that I know that.

[Slappy san]

Dragoncon kilt guys LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/community/dragoncon_kit/

Utilikilts: http://www.utilikilts.com/

Be scared that I know that.

I've come to my sense. I don't even like boxers. :)

[Nitmo]

I suddenly want a kilt. :)

Any one have a link the utility ones?

sorry, I only have sport utility kilts and they get bad gas milage

[west3man]

Side note:

I live in a town roughly 10x the size of Jayna's...and work in a major grocery store, I have for 11 years.

The pointing-laughing-snickering-gossiping isn't necessarily being small minded, it's a way to break up the monotony and keep from going completely bonkers. The amount of CRAP the average cashier gets put through on a daily basis would curl your toes.

Nothing like being called a 'fucking whore' because you rang up an item twice to boost your esteem and make you love your customers. Or being spit at. Or having somebody hand you money they just used to clean their teeth with. Or money with their blood on it because they're too drunk to realise they cut themselves. Not being able to go to the restroom for hours on end.
Having a customer stalk you. Call you at home. Bother your friends. You get my point?

Be glad the only thing most retail workers do is LAUGH.

We have a guy that comes in who has every single part of *one* of his ears pierced, and he gets the same treatment. He often wears a skirt over his pants. Some of the cashiers won't wait on him. (And IMO they need to find new jobs.)

Personally, I find him hilarious, he has a warped sense of humor and is really cheerful and outgoing. If he wasn't, y'know, twice my age I'd go out with him in a heartbeat. I love this post (really), but I'd like to add that we are where we are because almost everyone feels that the mistreatment that THEY'VE suffered somehow justifies that mistreatment they cause others to suffer.

[west3man]

I suddenly want a kilt. :)
I'd be interested if only to pull a "Braveheart" and show my ugliest bits n pieces to my enemies before smiting them.

[Jayna]

Good Lord! I usually make a post & the thread dies a quick death...

Thanks to Howie & Mac for "getting it". I did not expect people who weren't here 4 years ago to understand, so I'm not even going to try to explain.

To Slappy, I just got home from work & plowed through the responses, so no I haven't been sitting back enjoying the dogpile.

No he is not Scottish & is not a member of the SCA, he wasn't on his way to a Con & as far as anybody can tell he did it for precisely the reason Mac surmised.

I haven't seem him at all or had any contact with him in almost 3 years other than via email. I could care less what he wears, or does for that matter. I simply posted it here because I thought some of the folks who "knew us back then" would get a laugh out of it. It is just so typically him.

[Charles RB]

Yea, he knows. He goes into that store all the time.

OK then, despite my feelings of "it's just a kilt!", I have to agree with Mac on him being an evil little arsehole.

[Charles RB]

This just seems like misunderstanding of posts all round- do we really need this much hostility over it?

[Brian Cronin]

This just seems like misunderstanding of posts all round- do we really need this much hostility over it?

Nope.

-Brian